|int| Charting a New Course: Sean Duclay on Sailing as Sanctuary for Veterans' Reintegration and Recovery | Ep 104

As a former Marine ReconScout Sniper, I've weathered storms both literal and metaphorical, but nothing quite mirrors the tempest of reintegration that veterans face. Sean Duclay from Sail Ahead joins me, your host Thad David, to navigate these choppy waters, revealing how sailing provides a lifeline to veterans adrift in the civilian world. We set sail on a remarkable voyage where Sean charts the course of Sail Ahead's origin, its impactful mission, and the community's fervent support that's been the wind in its sails, touching over 4,000 veterans' lives.

The tales we share are as vast and deep as the ocean itself, from the poignant visual of 219 name tags honoring fallen heroes to the stirring accounts of veterans reclaiming their sense of purpose at sea. Through Sean's eyes, we glimpse the profound tributes paid to these warriors, the comradery found on deck, and the aspiration to reach further shores and touch more lives. It's an odyssey of remembrance, healing, and the unwavering resolve to combat the veteran suicide crisis—one sail at a time.

Hoisting the mainsail, we then tack towards the very heart of what makes Sail Ahead a sanctum for solace and strength. Stories unfurl like sails in the wind, capturing the raw emotion and therapeutic breakthroughs that occur amidst the waves. You'll hear about the seamless teamwork, the cathartic conversations, and the sense of belonging fostered through this unique sailing community. It's more than a sport; it's a vessel of hope, where veterans and their families find camaraderie, healing, and a new direction in life's vast ocean. Join us on this passionate pursuit to set new courses for veteran support and discover the ripple effects of change, one sail at a time.

Check out there website and support Sail Ahead:
https://www.sailahead.org/

Contact Thad - VictoriousVeteranProject@Gmail.com

Thanks for listening!

Transcript

Sean Duclay: 0:09

Well, especially if you think about the people that have never been on a boat before and suddenly like, let's assume we're in windy conditions and it's wavy, you don't. Something that maybe a lot of people don't think about, who have never gone sailing, is that we're propelled by the wind and the boat heals over, but that's totally normal, but it can be healed over, you know, 10 degrees, 20, 30 degrees, uh, 45 degrees if you have a lot of wind, and that's just very unnatural for our floors to be 45 degrees.

Sean Duclay: 0:42

So, a lot of people. It's scary, you know. You see the railing of the boat that gets buried under the water as it's rushing past and all you can hear is the loud wind and the waves um in the. For someone new, it's either exhilarating or it's terrifying, but afterwards you survive and then you're like dang, I did that, you know we did that, and that was like wow, that was incredible.

Thad David: 1:08

My name is Thad David. I'm a former Marine recon scout sniper with two deployments to Iraq. As a civilian, I've now facilitated hundreds of personal and professional development trainings across the country, and it struck me recently that the same things that help civilians will also help veterans succeed in their new roles as well. Join me as we define civilian success principles to inspire veteran victories. Welcome to another episode. I'm here today with Sean Duclay of Sail Ahead. How are you doing, sean? I'm doing well. Thank you, thad. How are you, man? I'm excellent. I'm very excited. I know somebody reached out and linked us up together, and when I heard about all the things that you do currently and everything you've been doing for quite some time, it's fascinating to think about all the good work you and your brother are doing.

Sean Duclay: 1:59

So I'm excited to jump in and share it. Well, thank you. Yeah, I love every opportunity to talk about it, so this is just as fun for me as it is for you, I'm sure.

Thad David: 2:03

It's excellent and just to let everybody know right away, on a sale ahead, you and your brother started it. You were 14, your brother was 16. Just for anybody that doesn't know anybody listening what is Sail Ahead Sure?

Sean Duclay: 2:16

So Sail Ahead is, as you said, is, an organization my brother and I started when we were 14 and 16. And it started with a very basic premise. As a family we've been sailing our whole lives. My parents even have a story where my brother Killian, when he was in the cradle as baby, they put him on the high side of the sailboat as ballast to flatten it out. So we've always been on the water and for myself and my brother Killian it was always therapeutic. My brother would say he would always forget about the math test he just flunked when we were out on the water.

Sean Duclay: 2:52

So when we were 14 and 16, one morning getting ready to go to school, we heard on our local news channel that at least that the VA had produced a study that was saying at least 22 veterans die by suicide every day, which we know is actually really an underrepresentation of the reality that there's over 70,000 veterans in our county of Suffolk County and many, many, many homeless veterans in New York City, which is in our backyard, etc. So we were shocked by this. We were disturbed by this, so we decided to take it into our own hands and we invited a Vietnam veteran sailing with us At the time we were sailing in the winter out of Oyster Bay on dinghies and not a recipe for success, if you take an older gentleman, a veteran, sailing in the winter on a dinghy. So he actually asked us to cut the sail short, which we did, but nevertheless, when we got back to the beach he gave us both a hug. He started crying, so we started crying and he told us that in the 20 years that he was going to therapy for his PTSD, that was the best therapy he ever had.

Sean Duclay: 4:01

So we sort of you know we set out to do good. We just didn't realize how much of an impact we could have had. And the second we realized, you know, the potential that sailing had on helping people. There was no decision to be made. We just started devising plans how to maximize our impact, how to connect the sailing world with the veteran world. And it's been 10 years now. Sail Ahead is my full-time job and we've taken over 4,000 veterans sailing.

Thad David: 4:38

Over how many veterans sailing 4,000. 4,000. That's an impressive, impressive number, especially for taking it on at such a young age. I think about what I was doing at the age of 14, and it was definitely not something as impactful as this, so it's really fascinating to hear about.

Sean Duclay: 4:56

I think we definitely benefited from being young in some ways, because the community, you know, they saw what we were trying to do. They saw that we had some unique ideas and so they really were very, very helpful. You know, a bunch of different sectors of our community were very much behind us and they wanted to see us succeed. So there was some advantage to being young. A story I like to tell is one of the ways we try to diversify to take veterans sailing as opposed to just taking them on our boat. On our boats is we approach a yacht club, the Centerport Yacht Club. On our boats is we approach the yacht club, the Centerport Yacht Club, which is the yacht club that this year will be the eighth year that we partner with them for a big event, and the biggest event we've had with them featured 54 sailboats and two helicopters. And it all started because one day kind of knocked on their door and the pitch was this hey, can we use your facilities, your sailors and their boats and take a bunch of veterans sailing? And oh, yeah, can you pay for everything and maybe we can get some burgers too? So they said yes, and you know it's shocking but it's a testament to. Uh, I think a lot of people really just want to do good. They just don't know exactly how you know. So you make it easy for them on how they can help and they'll be eager to jump on that opportunity.

Sean Duclay: 6:25

So, uh, so this has become a tradition and the centerport yacht club wants to do this every year for as long as they exist. So it's been immensely successful. We know, with just that event we organize six every year, but with just that event we've saved some lives. So you know, it's a great feeling. Everyone has a sense of being on the same team, of working towards something bigger, and so that's what I mean Like the community really supported us. We don't really see it as us by ourselves doing all this. We've had just last year we had, like, I think, 80 boat owners that volunteered throughout the year. So you know, it's a whole community that's really behind us.

Thad David: 7:07

That's fascinating and I really appreciate your comment that I think might be just a little bit opposite of what some other people would say, but you said a lot of people really just want to help. They have good in their heart and they just don't know where to help and you're just providing that opportunity for it and what a beautiful way of looking at life and that's fascinating. So you're now going to do that. One specific one. You said every year it takes place every year.

Sean Duclay: 7:36

Yeah, this year 2024, will be the eighth year we do it with the Center for Yacht Club. Okay, and we do it every year and so, beyond just having one event with the Center for Yacht Club, it's the biggest event Sail Ahead does every year. A lot of the skippers go on to take veterans sailing during weekly races or just privately on their boats on weekends, and so we view our role in some regard as being kind of some sort of a broker where we connect veterans with skippers and sailors and we try to match by personality and age and things like that, so that they can get along and hopefully they do, and then the relationship you know lives on without us having to be involved.

Thad David: 8:22

Wow. So y'all are, I mean, on top of hosting these events. Your end goal is to help get veterans paired up, matched up with other people that they can go sailing with long term and hopefully have that I mean, it sounds like in some cases could be a lifelong friendship that they're creating yeah, yeah, I mean, we have that.

Sean Duclay: 8:40

We have some some incredible stories of, uh, of there's, there's, uh one skipper who is also a vietnam veteran.

Sean Duclay: 8:49

Uh, he's a double purple heart recipient and he told us that the way he characterized his experience in Vietnam is I think he spent 280-some days playing hide-and-seek and twice he was found.

Sean Duclay: 9:04

But he's someone who never really talked about his experience and like never, not to his family, not to us, even though we've known him for years, and like never not to his family, not to us, even though we've known him for years. And then one day, one of these events at the Center for Yacht Club, we had on his boat a young Marine Corps captain who was in Afghanistan and Iraq, and that was the very first time where the Vietnam veteran opened up about his experience was on that boat that day, and it was because he thought that by sharing his experience he would help the younger generation, which he did, and they were able to connect over some shared adversity. And you know, like, basically, that has nothing really to do with me, except that we created the conditions that that could take place, but it's magical, you know, that's really really cool, something we're really happy about and proud of, you know.

Thad David: 9:58

You should be very proud of it and I love you're leading the way with humility. You know you're really I mean you're brokering all of it and you're giving out all the credits to everybody else and it's really a magical thing. It's wonderful. It's a breath of fresh air to be able to speak with you about it. I love that and you mentioned earlier. Thank you for sharing any other stories like that. Share along the way, because I love to hear about that stuff. Did you mention and I want to make sure I heard it right that you do that was one of six events that y'all do every year.

Sean Duclay: 10:29

Yes.

Sean Duclay: 10:32

So what are the other events that you do. So we partner with a bunch of yacht clubs around Long Island. So, to name a few, there's the Seacliff Yacht Club, the Centerport Yacht Club, the Sagamore Yacht Club, babylon Yacht Club. We also have an event in Buffalo Harbor and also, pre-pandemic, we had since 2017 until the pandemic, we had events every year in Tacoma, washington, for the Ranger Battalion over there.

Sean Duclay: 11:01

Okay, and the reason being is because one of our missions at Sailorhead is to honor and remember our mates, and I'll show you our mates. These are our mates. They're the name tag Over 219 veterans who've died by suicide. So if we go back to the origin of Sail Ahead, the statistic of 22 a day 219 is one short of 220. So these are the self-inflicted casualties in the United States every 10 days, and we carry our mates with us wherever we go, for a number of reasons.

Sean Duclay: 11:42

One is kind of the shock factor For people who don't have any concept of what's going on in the military community. This is the same 22 a day. People might associate it with a push-up challenge or something like that, but these are real human lives represented by name tags. Behind every one of these veterans there's a family that's suffered. So one of our mates his name is Ryan James Day. He's a US Army Ranger. He was 21 when he took his life and he was stationed in Washington, in Tacoma. So our event there was in honor of him and another Ranger, matt Wilson, who also took his life, and the whole point is bring the Ranger community together for a day of fun. We don't want to make anyone too sad by talking about these realities, but they are. It is a reality, so we have to talk about it. But we also make the day about fun and healing and connectivity.

Thad David: 12:45

So that's what, excuse me, no, you're good. I mean just for anybody that, if you're listening to this only and you weren't able to see it Sean actually held up you said 210 name tags. I mean it's 219. It's a. I mean it really hits you when you see that. I mean you. I know that was the point of it when you say 22 a day, but when you actually hold that up and you see all those name tags that it's that's very powerful.

Sean Duclay: 13:20

Those name tags, that it's that's very powerful. Yeah and uh. And so we started with 219 name tags and the one that's missing, you know, uh, 22 a day times 10 days is 220. The one that's missing represents the life that we try to save. Um, last, uh, through our work, we've met many more veterans who have friends who have died by suicide, so we now have more than 219, but that's the number we started with and uh, and the incredible the thing is that, uh, you know it's a symbol, but it's also real. These are real human lives that I'm holding in my hands right now through these name tags, and the reason I say that is because we went sailing with them years ago, when we first had them duplicated, and so I took a selfie of a name tag that says shampoo and that's a woman who. She took her life at a very young age, and I took a selfie with her and I sent it to her mom and her mom said oh, wow, you know my daughter had never gone sailing before, so you know she's referring to a name tag, you know.

Sean Duclay: 14:28

So it's not that this is the spirit of over 219 people people, but also of all the veterans that have died by suicide. You know the the mission is to keep their names alive, so anytime I can insert their names or an anecdote, I do that. So thank you, thad, for providing me with the platform to do that. Um, but yeah, you know it's uh, so so that's that. That's why we went out to Tacoma, washington. We have six of those events where, uh, we organize, usually with yacht clubs, and uh, we we bring veterans out, they go sailing, we feed everyone and then we also do regular sailing outings. But uh, our, those are our events. There are spectacles, there are ceremonies, there are speeches. It's all about helping people connect with other people, keeping the memory of people who have lost their lives alive and things of that nature finding people to help.

Thad David: 15:33

It's very, very powerful. I love it. I mean, you're honoring the fallen men and women and I love that you leave the one open, because that's the purpose inside of your organization and the purpose of what you and your brother are doing. It's a really, really powerful. It's powerful to see it all. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, my pleasure. And are you back in Tacoma or are you not back?

Sean Duclay: 16:02

in Tacoma. Have you done that? You said since the pandemic you haven't been. No, no, but we'd like to do that again.

Thad David: 16:07

I have quite a few friends. I was just there for work and some good friends of mine live in Tacoma and I'm confident they would love to help out. So, on a side note, I would love to get you guys linked up and I think it would be really cool to see it all take place.

Sean Duclay: 16:23

Yeah, yeah, that'd be great.

Thad David: 16:25

Yeah, and so you got the six events and they sound like they're all aside from Tacoma, all over near the Long Island area. Hmm, yeah.

Sean Duclay: 16:34

Buffalo and Tacoma are theoma all over near the Long Island area. Yeah, buffalo and Tacoma are the only two not in the Long Island area okay and then uh and then, because that's where I'm from, that's where I live, and we also have New York City right nearby, you know.

Thad David: 16:45

So there's a lot, a lot of veterans, uh, in this area that could benefit from our uh organizing ah well, yeah, I think it's fascinating, and it makes sense that it's centrally located to where you are, because your reach can only be so far as you're growing, and so what does it look like? The future what's your game plan for the future of Sail Ahead?

Sean Duclay: 17:09

Sure. So, like I said, sail Ahead is my full-time job, but that only started last year. So now that kind of frees me up to do to kind of expand a little bit. And the way that looks like moving forward is that in 2024, we have a we are discussing with our VA the local VA here, which is the North Port VA to take veterans sailing that are part of their mental health and adaptive sports programs. They have 350 veterans enrolled in those programs and the idea is to take them sailing between June and Thanksgiving twice a week June and Thanksgiving twice a week. We're offering for between like six and 20 veterans. We're offering them to go sailing twice a week every week between June and Thanksgiving. So the idea would be to replicate that. Wherever there's a big VA next to water and so Buffalo is a good example of the next place we're hoping to do that perhaps next year and then, you know, whenever.

Sean Duclay: 18:22

I think the sailing world and the veteran world too, they're kind of small worlds, so if people are a part of what we're doing, pretty much everyone likes what we're doing and they want to take it to their home. So a lot of different yacht clubs have asked us if we can set up operations with them, for instance, the Indian Harbor Yacht Club and the San Diego Yacht Club. So what's left is for me to go over there, connect with the sailing community and the veterans community and then try and create something out of it Turn veterans into sailors. I don't know if you know much about sailing, that in the sailing world but racing is a super big deal. There's a very high tech. I mean you could also have low tech racing, but for the most part, I think veterans tend to like the higher tech, high performance, let's push ourselves, let's push the boat, kind of mentality. So, uh, so try and, you know, create opportunities for veterans to sail. That's that's how I view my job creating sailing opportunities for veterans.

Sean Duclay: 19:29

And uh, what is uh, what's interesting is that there are some people you know, who know, who are going through something difficult in life and all they need could be one day where people treat them nice and take them out on the water, which is sort of unique. Not everyone goes sailing. I live on an island and I grew up sailing, so for me it's a normal thing, but most people on the island have never been sailing. A lot of people don't even know how to swim. So sometimes, just one day of being treated special, of being reassured that there are people out there even if they're strangers that care for you, is all you need to get out of a funk. Oftentimes, though, you need something more sustainable, something that lasts over the whole season, so that's where those programs come in, where we're trying to get people sailing every week or every month, or something like that. Just just yeah.

Thad David: 20:28

What's the most common? Just out of curiosity, because I mean 4,000 veterans is a. That's a lot of veterans that that you and your brother have gotten out on a sailboat. What's the most common piece of feedback that you hear after one or after several sailing trips from veterans?

Sean Duclay: 20:47

You know, I think, uh, I think not for nothing, but the fact that we run it as a family, like my, my parents have, are involved. My two younger sisters are also very involved. The fact that we run it as a family makes it necessarily very personal. And, uh, a lot of the veterans that we, that we sail with, end up coming over to our house at some point and then becoming best friends and we have dinner with them all the time. So I think, just how you know, and we, really we I mean, like I said, now it's a job, but it used to only be for passion and pleasure that we did this, so that that's something you can feel. You know, it's not like a service that we provide, because, whatever, it's something that we want to do that we like doing. So, the the most common feedback is like just just the I don't know, I don't know how to say it and not sound corny, but just like the love, just the love well, you can feel I mean it, it exudes from you just talking about it.

Thad David: 21:51

I mean you can tell this is something that you're doing because you love it and because you're passionate about it, and so I could see that as being a very powerful, moving experience. It's really amazing, really fascinating, and I know you shared the story about the Vietnam veteran that went and it was kind of a rocky, rocky trip. You'll have to turn the boat back. It was kind of a rocky, rocky trip. Y'all had to turn the boat back.

Sean Duclay: 22:21

It seemed like that, really, that one trip just changed everything for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he yeah. You know, it's really interesting to see the way some people respond to the sailing, because some people, it's almost like it's a catalyst where they're going through something difficult. So, in this case, his name is fritz, this veteran, and fritz was, uh, he was going through a rough patch, it's fair to say, and then we went sailing with him through the course of the entire winter, pretty much every weekend, and uh, it's, it seems like and he said this it empowered him to do some things that he was wanting to do for years, but because he was stuck in a rut or I don't know the word for it, you know some kind of a brain fog, he didn't do it. But so, in his example, he wanted to go back to Haiti, where he's from, and spend some time with his family and kind of reconnect with his roots, and then he and then come back to New York, which he did.

Sean Duclay: 23:19

He went back to Haiti for a few years. He was always sending videos of him partying, having fun, you know, living life, and and so you have responses like that. You have responses, you have. It's just really interesting. Interesting the way people respond to it. It's it tends to be. It's almost overwhelmingly positive, except for the very few people who are get seasick, and that's just too bad. There's nothing we can do about that, unfortunately.

Thad David: 23:44

But what ends up happening?

Sean Duclay: 23:47

just with people that get seasick so we have uh, we have support boats out there, ribs, uh, and if it's too bad, uh, we will. We'll get them from a sailboat onto a rib and bring them back on shore and then give them a burger or something like that. Okay.

Thad David: 24:06

That's unfortunate. Yeah, do they. I wonder if they have still, even in that, stepping out, stretching outside of their, I would imagine, stretching outside of their comfort zone, I would imagine even that was a powerful experience for them.

Sean Duclay: 24:20

I think yeah, I've read, you know, in college I took some psychology classes experiences, exposure to new experiences is really helpful to your brain and really important for you know, creating uh good feelings. So, uh, so, yeah, I, I like to think that way. I know that for most people I think that's true. You know the salty air, the being in nature, uh a reminder that that you know a lot of your, a lot of problems are kind of in your head and that we're smaller than we think and things matter less than we think, because when you're out there on the water, it's just you, the people around you and the elements, and, and that's all that matters is, can we get to our destination in one piece, without breaking anything, without losing anybody? And there's something kind of primal about that, there's something a little like recalibrating about that.

Thad David: 25:25

Yeah, what would be? Because you said a lot of problems in our head. They seem bigger but they're really that much smaller. But once you get out there, everything kind of melts away because you're so focused. What would be an example of a problem that? Just out of curiosity I don't know if you have one off the top of your head, but it feels like a big problem. But once you get out there it's like man, not such a big problem.

Sean Duclay: 25:51

I, I'm not a veteran, so I'm not going to speak for any veterans, but I can speak for myself personally, If I go somewhere public and I have social anxiety or something like that, and then I go step on a boat and I realize, wow, how silly that was. We're all just small, nobody really cares about the life I'm living. Uh, we're just on a rock floating through space and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, you know it's, it's kind of. It puts things in perspective, I think absolutely when it's.

Thad David: 26:27

I love the hyper-focused nature of it the more I read about those types of things. There's a really good book. I've referenced it a few times. It's called Stealing Fire and he references different activities that force your mind to be 100% present to what is going on right now and the way you're describing some of these sailing trips. It seems like you have no choice but to be hyper-focused in, and that's what I think. Far too often we avoid those scenarios where we're hyper-focused in and that's when our mind tends to wander and it creates a big story around. And again, not to minimize somebody's experience, because it might be a big deal, but I know, for me, in that same light, sometimes this little thing kind of feels like a much larger thing, and a lot of times it's because it had too much time to dance around on my head, whereas when you get hyper-focused in, it gives clarity and peace of mind.

Sean Duclay: 27:26

Yeah, it's a it's. It gives you an opportunity to prioritize everything you know, well, I love it.

Thad David: 27:35

And there's this other, this I've been trying to track her down because I want to interview her and it's an episode I'm going to record soon. It's about the types of fun. There's three types of fun Type one fun. Type two fun. Type three fun. Are you familiar with those?

Sean Duclay: 27:50

I've heard of one is in the moment. Two is like after the moment passes, right and then go ahead.

Thad David: 27:58

You explain it. No, no, you're good and I'm sure there's been several variations of this one. But the way that she described it it was an old REI article from a very, very long time ago that I happened to come across. But basically, type one fun is like man, this is fun. Like this, this is fun. I'm having fun right now. Type three fun is this is no fun. I'm not enjoying myself. I'm not going to enjoy this in the future and it's not fun right now. But type two fun is very much. It's not super enjoyable right now. Like it's like man. This is kind of sketchy, but after the fact it's when it's really fun that the situation's over and you look back on it and it's like wow, that was really fun and I could imagine even getting scared on a sailboat.

Thad David: 28:43

I bet you're giving out a lot of type 2 fun.

Sean Duclay: 28:45

Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. Well, especially if you think about the people that have never been on a boat before and suddenly, like, let's assume we're in windy conditions and it's wavy, something that maybe a lot of people don't think about, who have never gone sailing, is that we're propelled by the wind and the boat heels over, but that's totally normal. But it can be heeled over 10 degrees, 20, 30 degrees, 45 degrees if you have a lot of wind, and that's just very unnatural for our floors to be at 45 degrees. So for a lot of people it's scary. You see the railing of the boat that gets buried under the water as it's rushing past and all you can hear is the loud wind and the waves.

Sean Duclay: 29:30

In the moment, for someone new, it's either exhilarating or it's terrifying, but but afterwards you survive. And then you're like dang, I did that, you know we did that, and that was like wow, that was incredible. You don't, you don't have to be moving that fast, uh, to get that kind of rush. And on a sailboats, you know, accepting the most high tech, most expensive boats in the world, they don't usually go that fast, they don't usually exceed like 15 miles an hour, let's say, or even less so, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that it's you and your equipment in this case your boat dealing against the wind and the waves, and things are under a lot of stress, because if you have 15 mile an hour winds and a huge amount of sail, then things are leaning and craning, and it's your job to make sure you're operating that boat safely, that you're taking advantage of what nature is offering you, and you know again, if you're new to that, what nature's offering you.

Thad David: 30:38

And, uh, you know again if you're new to that, it's a terrifying experience, but there's there's something cool about uh, you know about going sailing with uh veterans and then, uh, making them scared on your well and it's I mean, it seems like you're combining a lot of these great things that are just we know we're good for you know, type two, fun, great for your mind, getting hyper focused in on the moment and and really letting all the problems of the day.

Thad David: 31:03

That, uh, made me think about my son's going through. He's in kindergarten, but they're doing little deal, big deal, like when to let yourself escalate up and like processing through and it's he's got this picture that that he's, that he goes back to, so anytime he's got something we always reference. All right, finn, is it a big deal or is this a little deal? And he like sometimes he walks over to a sheet and you know that's a little deal. But I think, as adults, I know for me, for me, probably benefit from somebody stopping me and saying that, which I know is not what you're doing. But being out on a boat forces our mind to prioritize and I love that.

Sean Duclay: 31:40

Yeah, that just kind of happens naturally on a boat. I think Another really great part about it is that when you're sailing, I sometimes liken it to a forced group therapy session. Because if I'm sailing and I'm out there with a few veterans who may have never met each other before, but they might both have TBI or post-traumatic stress or depression or are otherwise both suffering adjacent things, then suddenly no one's out there, no one's eavesdropping, no one's judging you and you can't really bail out because you'd have to swim back. So not only are we physically working together, because and this is why sailing is so much better than powerboating no offense to any powerboaters out there but essentially on a powerboat you have one person with the key, you turn the key and from the wheel you have everything. You have speed, you have maneuvering, whereas on a sailboat everyone has a job. There are two sails for the most part, there's a front sail and there's the main sail. There's a jib and a main sail, and then you also have a driver. So you need to be a team and you need to be communicating well and you're sort of in it together. And if you can't work as a team well, then you're sort of screwed because you can't make it to your destination. So it forces teamwork, it forces cooperation, it forces camaraderie. Work, it forces cooperation, it forces camaraderie.

Sean Duclay: 33:17

And then again, if you experience the same things in the military as so often it seems to me that veterans have very similar experiences then it's kind of a good fertilized ground for healing conversations and things like that.

Sean Duclay: 33:30

The one time I saw this in the most poignant way is we partner with the Long Island Maritime Museum as well, and they have an oyster boat that's over 130 years old. Congress declared it a National Historic Landmark. So I like to joke, I think it's the only landmark that you could drive. But we decided to have an all-women's veteran outing and besides the crew and myself, everyone on board was a woman and a veteran. And within five minutes of leaving the dock, three complete strangers were already crying and talking about experiences they had with military sexual trauma, mst and uh. And I thought, like you know, yeah, I mean, wow, you know, there's, all I have to do is get people on the boat and then and then make sure it's operating. But I don't have to do anything, I don't have to be a psychologist, it kind of it just sort of happens, you know.

Thad David: 34:32

So yeah, that kind of leads into one question that I was going to ask you as well, because you had referenced it to group therapy. And then, obviously, this is a very powerful example of the healing that can take place and it doesn't seem like there's any forced conversations. There's no forced group talk, anything like that. If somebody listening were to say I want to go do this, I would imagine that could be a holdup. Is there a forced conversation, anything like that?

Sean Duclay: 35:07

So no, the way we started Sailhead as a family, we're taking veterans sailing and they kind of became our friends and it was just a regular sort of friendly thing, and we like that spirit because I think it it brings out the best in people and people are very open that way. Um, we haven't tried this, but I imagine that by introducing, uh, for example, a psychologist although there are undoubtedly benefits to that I think it will just sort of like put people, uh, in a defensive mode, you know, or otherwise you know it like we just want the space to kind of be like pure fun, you know, and, uh, and and, as a byproduct, uh, there's some catharsis going on, there's some therapy that's going, you know, like it's. We try to be sneaky about it. In other words, yeah.

Thad David: 36:01

Well, I mean it seems like the perfect recipe to just organically let it take place. You know there doesn't need to be an added piece to it. Yeah, an added piece to it? Um, and I would imagine that's probably why people would would sign up to go, because there is no, like you said, it would just add a different, a different element to it. Not that there's not a benefit to a psychologist or psychiatrist, like that's have those benefits as well, but just letting it take place is uh pretty fascinating, and it's also about our background.

Sean Duclay: 36:36

No one in my family is a mental health expert, you know. So we kind of it's almost like we make do with what we have, but it turns out that the strategy we've employed up until now we really like and it really works. So we don't, you know. So we just want to replicate it as many times as we can.

Thad David: 36:50

I think it's. It's an incredible thing. I'd love to hear about it. And another thought that anybody that's listening that might be thinking to themselves you know, I want to sign up, I want to do this. How much sailing knowledge does somebody need to have in order to be able to?

Sean Duclay: 37:05

go out and you want to be involved. Obviously you're still welcome. It's not. You know, we take anyone, but we use experienced skippers, usually on their own boats. But we also have some boats of our own and we recently partnered with a foundation called the Sterling Harbor Foundation and they maintain, I think, 20 or so classic sailboats. Some of them are over 100 years old, and so if someone who doesn't know how to sail wants to go sailing, well, first of all, I speak with you usually and then we have a conversation about it, we can establish the proper expectations, what kind of gear you need to bring, and then, once you're there, you'll have uh, you'll, usually I'm the one sailing with you, but otherwise you have a very experienced skipper with crew.

Sean Duclay: 38:05

Um, a lot of the skippers that sail with us are also racers and have done races like the Bermuda race, offshore races that last days. Uh. So you know we the last thing we want to do is have a bad experience, and part of that is making sure that we have knowledgeable and like, competent people operating the boats Right. And then, if you want to learn how to sail and don't know anything about sailing, we also have had programs to get veterans uh what's called basic keelboat certified, certified which uh is offered by the american sailing association and uh and otherwise. Just by continuing to come with us week in, week out, you'll learn how to sail and you know we're happy to teach. And then a veteran has and can become crew on boats and then we'll invite you to races. Offshore races are fun. They're not for everybody but you know.

Thad David: 39:02

That's. That's amazing. And another question that I want to ask you too, because it's such a just kind of your central location how many veterans of the 4 000000 are within your general area, and is it common for people to fly in from all parts? Just knowing that you've been around for 10 years, I would imagine your reach has been pretty far.

Sean Duclay: 39:25

Yeah, so most, the vast majority of people who participate in our events or programs are local. A lot of veterans have come from other states. It's not just veterans. We also deal a lot with the families of veterans because obviously, if an individual within a family is suffering or, worse yet, passes away or dies, then the family is also suffering as well. So we extend our sailing.

Sean Duclay: 39:53

Our sailing goes beyond the veteran, it includes their family and you know, of course, like if a veteran is a father or a mother, we don't want them to not take their kids. You know that's part of healing is. You know we need your support system there. So we have in the past fundraised and we've had families, especially of our mates, families of our mates that we fundraise for, to come fly in from Colorado, from Washington, idaho, louisiana, new Jersey, which is really close, but New Jersey and a few other states, texas and a few others and a few others.

Sean Duclay: 40:31

And the reason is, you know, especially for the families of our mates, the reason why we bring them is to honor their loved one specifically, and each of our events honors one mate at a time and then we have their family come and their family can talk about their loved one.

Sean Duclay: 40:50

You know it's a way to celebrate and remember their life, but then it's also kind of a powerful way, a message of if you're struggling, you know, here's someone telling you that you know they had a loved one that was also struggling and lost the fight. So if you're struggling now and you don't think you're winning, just reach out, and we're just trying to create the most safe possible environment that people feel comfortable talking to us, you know. And then, as I said, we're not mental health care professionals, but there are enough people that are participating in our events and that are involved in the community that can take it from there. Once someone says I need help, there are people around that can help you and so yeah, but for the most part they're local, they're tri-state area pretty much and uh, so yeah, but for the most part they're local, the tri-state area pretty much.

Thad David: 41:45

Well, it's. I imagine you had it and I'd just love to know that anybody that was listening or is listening and felt compared, because it sounds incredible. It sounds like something that would be a blast just to go out and and experience. So it would be. It would be really cool to see or hear about other people flying out, which it sounds like that's already happening.

Sean Duclay: 42:06

Yeah, actually there's one veteran who won't mind that I say this because he told me that I could. His name is Ron. He's a ranger, he was a ranger, he was a ranger and he struggled with mental health and suicidal thoughts resulting from an injury, and he has TBI now. And so his best friend is Matt Wilson. And he's another ranger who did unfortunately succumb to suicide, and he's the ranger we were honoring in Tacoma, washington. So Ron has struggled with suicidal thoughts for many, many years and over time he's become a friend of ours. He comes to New York a lot. Whenever we're in Washington, we would go visit him.

Sean Duclay: 42:58

Now he lives in Curacao and so he agreed to come to one of our events a few months in advance. It was about a month away from the event and I was texting him hey, did you book your tickets? You know you could stay at our house for the weekend or however long you want. Blah, blah, blah. And then you know, with each passing day he would respond less or not respond at all, and we started to get worried. There's a spiral happening that we were aware of. So I just activated the network of everyone I knew who knew him and we were just calling him, sending him love, voice memos, positive, uplifting things, and I bought him a plane ticket the morning of the event, even though he knew about it months in advance. He got on the plane, he showed up and he told me later that day, after the event and the festivities were done, that I but we have saved his life through, you know, rallying the cavalry and uh, and really staying on him until he came and uh, and the funny thing after that was that, um, we'd say, okay, ron, so you know, after a few days, we're like okay, you know, are you gonna, when are you leaving? And he said, well, I'll probably like a plane tickets tomorrow.

Sean Duclay: 44:21

And he ended up staying for like two and a half weeks. But that's totally fine, we love him and that's what we set out to do is help people and he's an example of someone who really needed help and whose life we saved. And he won't mind me saying that. He said he'd give me permission to share that story, but you know, it's kind of a. It kind of shows you like that this job isn't like any other job, you know it's. There is no clocking out you have. It's a human job. You're dealing with human people and, and you know like I would just want to help people is basically the idea and, uh, sometimes that takes work and sometimes it's creative, um, but you know, the point is, let's go sailing.

Thad David: 45:12

You know, let's go sailing, let's go sailing, let's go sailing yeah, well, I think it's incredible because it's a rare thing to find somebody that is so committed, as you and your family, with what they say. This is my goal, this is what I'm doing, and you are all in, and it's not a nine to five like you said, and it's a breath of fresh air to hear about, and I just love to hear about all the lives you're changing and saving.

Sean Duclay: 45:39

Thank you, Matt yeah.

Thad David: 45:40

Thank you for doing what you're changing and saving. Thank you for that. Yeah, thank you for doing what you're doing. What is the best place for if somebody wants to just help out? I would imagine you take donations. What's the best place for somebody to reach out, kind of get more information and maybe help support? What does that look like?

Sean Duclay: 46:00

Yeah, so we are a 501c3. So we do accept donations, and voting isn't cheap, unfortunately. We offer all of our services at no cost to veterans, so if anyone is feeling inspired by this discourse we've been having, they can go to saleaheadorg and they'll find a donate button on our website. There's also a fairly decent amount of information. If you wanted to learn more, we also have a page dedicated to our mates, so if you want to learn about our mates, who are over 19 veterans who died by suicide, and you want to read about their bios, I would love for you to go to our website and read about them. If you unfortunately know someone who did die of suicide and you'd like them to be honored in that way, send an email, info at sailaheadorg and then we can figure something out all right.

Thad David: 47:08

Very much appreciate it. Thank you, sean, for for everything that you've shared here thus far, and if just the website, is that the best place for people to get in touch with you to kind of check it out?

Sean Duclay: 47:20

website yeah, the website's the best. There's okay, look at instagram, but website's definitely the best yeah website's the best way to go.

Thad David: 47:27

You know it's fascinating stuff. I'm excited to dive deeper into all of this and you've shared several stories, but I want to just ask you, as we start to wrap all of this up, like what is one more story or just one of the things that we haven't talked about? That's one of your favorite things to share.

Sean Duclay: 47:51

Well, just that. So my family has always been about hospitality and helping people, being kind, I guess in a word. And so when we started Sail Ahead, my brother and I and we just took one veteran sailing and we realized that this thing that we're privileged to take for granted, this sport, which is kind of not for everyone because of the expensive nature of it, once we realized how helpful it could be, we just wanted to keep doing it. And since then, just the most valuable stories I have, the most enriching experiences and the best friends I've made have all been through this. So you, uh, you say uh, I'm inspiring, or or what you said, and I think, no, for me it's just uh, I'm being pulled, you know it's uh, it's, it's um, I'm doing it very selfishly, no, I'm just kidding. But it's provided me with such immense value throughout all these years that that you know there's no way I'm not going to keep going all these years that you know there's no way I'm not going to keep going.

Thad David: 49:10

I know I talked to several people doing really great things and that always is a big talking point or a pinnacle is what you just shared that you know the people that are giving out the most to other people are usually that they get the most in return and, like you said, it's pulling you towards it and it's fascinating. Thank you so much for taking the time to jump on to share everything that you're doing and if I can do anything to help out, please don't hesitate to reach out.

Sean Duclay: 49:32

Well, thank you, thad. You're already helping by helping us to get the word out, by asking me questions that bring out the best stories. So thank you very much I appreciate it, thank you.