Ep.39 You Are Equipped + Kirsten Marchant

When we focus on what we lack, our loneliness is surrounded by feelings of insecurity, jealousy, and efforts that feel futile. But when we focus on our unique giftings, growing in those and calling them out in others, we can shift our perspective toward an abundance mindset. Kimber talks with Kirsten Marchant about some ways we can shift our perspective toward what we can control in pursuing friendship and how to grow in our unique giftings. 

Kirsten is a deep well of learned wisdom in this area, but it hasn't always come easily for her, which I think you'll find really encouraging. If you're looking for traction in the area of friendship, this episode is a great place to start.

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Transcript

Kimber: 0:09

Hey friends. Welcome to the, your sister Kimber podcast. My name is Kimber Gilbert, and I'm so glad you're here. Last week, we started a new series here at the podcast on loneliness and how to handle this thing that none of us want to deal with, but it's honestly a universal experience for a saw. Today, I get to talk to my friend Kirsten about this and how loneliness has impacted her story. And we want you, my friend to join us. Let me tell you about Kirsten. In my eyes. She is the ultimate cool girl. But friends, even those in our lives who look like they have it all together. They've had a loneliness to. We're going to talk about how we're both learning to break down the walls that keep us separated from people in our lives and how we're learning to lean into community in ways that you might not have thought of before. I know I learned a lot from our conversation and I think you will too. I really hope our chat today helps you grow authentic community in your own life, as well as friendships that honor God and draw closer to Jesus. Friend. I wish we could have this talk over coffee, but this is the next best thing. I'm so glad you're here. Let's get started. Hi, Kirsten.

Kirsten: 1:28

I can

Kimber: 1:29

Hey, thanks so much for chatting with me today. I'm thrilled to have you as our guest.

Kirsten: 1:34

Thank you for having me. I am honored to be here and looking forward to it.

Kimber: 1:38

Oh, Yeah. it's going to be fine. I, it was kind of funny when I asked you if you would come on and talk to me about loneliness, this new series that we are kind of focusing on. And just how it's impacted your story. I said, I felt a bit weird asking. Guests about this series, because it's not like I'm thinking like, Hmm. Who seems lonely to me like, oh, Chris did.

Kirsten: 2:01

Ah, She's the one, she's the one.

Kimber: 2:04

Right. No, not at all, but I just, I really think, I feel like it's a universal experience. And so it's not necessarily a matter of like, is loneliness a part of your story, but rather, how has it been a part of your story? Um, is this kind of how you see it too? Um, or what's kind of your take on that?

Kirsten: 2:21

Yeah, I agree. I think that loneliness is part of all of our stories. I think that sometimes we need to reflect on it more to really see the role that it has played in our lives also. Um, and I think that we are capable of finding ourselves lonely again, even if we aren't Right. now at any point in time. So I think that it's something to be aware of and to not feel shame about that it is a part of your story because the truth is, is that. It is part of your story in

Kimber: 2:51

love that. I love that reminder that it can like come again because that's totally something like. Um, and I think we'll get into this a little bit more, but it's like sometimes I equate loneliness with just circumstances and I think that's not really the case. And so I'm like, well, my circumstances are good. So therefore loneliness, isn't a part of my experience right now. But. I don't think that's always true. So Yeah. Well, I'm excited to talk to you today about this. Um, would you just start by kind of introducing yourself to our friends, listening who may not know you.

Kirsten: 3:18

Yeah, my name is Kirsten and my husband, Chris and I are raising our six kids in Anchorage, Alaska, and I have surprisingly, um, found myself as a homeschool parents, which I did not see coming.

Kimber: 3:32

that's surprising to You Okay. How did you like stumble into that then? If it was like a surprise.

Kirsten: 3:38

Yeah, well, I never wanted to. I valued my time. I value my alone time. I valued. You know, Given my kids to somebody else and I needed that time. And so I just never, I never really

Kimber: 3:49

Totally hear

Kirsten: 3:50

And then I really. I felt like the Lord kept telling me, like calling me into this. And he works with me usually by hearing a message over and over again. Like, oh, I really feel like God is bringing this to my

Kimber: 4:03

up.

Kirsten: 4:04

Yes. And so I told Chris Monday, I'm like, I really feel like the Lord is asking us to homeschool thinking, surely he will shoot this down. Like, this is crazy. And he was like, I agree. I've been thinking about that too. I'm like sign.

Kimber: 4:17

Dig it.

Kirsten: 4:18

I can't rely on you for anything. And so I was kind of disappointed and it really did come. It came down to a point of surrender. Like, Lord, I really feel like you're asking me to do this and I don't want to, quite frankly, but I trust you and I will do it. I will be obedient, but you've got to meet me where I'm at because I am ill suited for this task. And I don't even have the heart or the passion or the skillset to do it. And so here I am, but I trust that you have a plan and it turns out his plan for that was really good.

Kimber: 4:48

Yeah. What has been your favorite thing that has come out of that? Despite it being, you know, challenge and not something that you were maybe looking forward to initially.

Kirsten: 4:56

You know, my favorite thing probably is the ability to sow into my kids, myself, to be the voice that sows value into them day by day, that sees where they're at. And can just say, Hey, you, you recognize that this is what that is. Right. And they're like, yeah. Okay, that's fine. As long as you see it for what it is, I recognize that. that. where you're at. I see where you're at. I see why you're making that choice, but you need to be able to recognize it for what it is. And I think that's been one of the most valuable things other than, you know, in parting wisdom and learning and valuing the love of learning, which really I didn't have when I started. Um, I didn't

Kimber: 5:33

too, maybe.

Kirsten: 5:34

I have, I've grown that a lot. And my heart for my kids now is one that says, you know, You have an opportunity to provide for your future self right now. And you have this gift of time and this gift of youth and this gift of being sheltered by your dad and I, and my heart for you is that you would lean into that learning that lean into equipping yourself for the betterment of your future self. And he were the only one that will better from that. And you were the only one that will pay for your lacking diligence. And I'm trying to pull you along. I'm trying to pull you along when you don't want to. But my hope is that you will catch fire for it and take those reins for yourself. And that you'll value those things for yourself because they are for your good, they are for your good and I, and I hope that you see that. And come to value it for yourself.

Kimber: 6:22

I love that, that vision casting, that's such a, such a cool gift to give your kids. I think because it's sometimes hard. Like for me being a public school teacher for a while, you know, it's hard sometimes to cast that comprehensively when you just see kids, at least at the high school level for. You know, an hour a day or so or less. And so to be able to cast that for over their whole education, I think is a really cool gift. So that's, that's really

Kirsten: 6:51

Yeah. I

Kimber: 6:52

Well, you know, as you're talking about this, I don't know if you know this person, but, um, me and so many of my friends, we think you're like really cool. Do you know that.

Kirsten: 7:03

No. I need to not know that. No, thank you. That is very kind.

Kimber: 7:08

It's uh, it's true. Um, most people that I think are my peers look up to you a lot. And, um, I mean, you just like you're, you have a lot of beautiful, wonderful children. At least they seem to us, right. Um, you know, you.

Kirsten: 7:22

There are no, they are. They're wonderful.

Kimber: 7:23

You educate them all yourself. You keep all these amazing plants alive. You guys you're so chic and just, I think major hashtag goals is how a lot of people, maybe a step behind in life see you. And so. I was thinking about this and it's like, that's our version like outside looking in. And I think a lot of it is true, you know, but there's also this idea of like the images of people that we get in our heads and like from our perspectives that may or may not quite match their reality. And so, and I think this is a huge part of the loneliness problem actually is like, you know, a lot of times we look in and we're like, oh man, they have it all together. Like there. They're crushing it. Like everything is perfect for them. And then we see our realities in comparison to that, and it's, there's such a difference. And so I think that maybe plays into the loneliness event. Um, so do you have people in your life that you like are looking at and you're just like, man, they totally have it all together. Like, do you experience this as well? Or is this like a younger thing? Do you ever grow out of that? Do you think? I don't know.

Kirsten: 8:30

I think, you know. I thank you for saying that by the way, that is very kind and, and you're right in your perception in that I don't see myself like that at all. And I think that's the struggle of life, right? Like you see. you see. the best of people and, you know, the struggles that you have, also your internal dialogue, your internal messages. and so I think that's kind of. Life, that's kind of. how life cycles out. And I think that's something that, it's our responsibility to pursue. The betterment of ourselves in that life. Um, and not to compare ourselves to other people, which is, which is a learned thing. Right. And. You know, I'm 40, I'm 40 now,

Kimber: 9:10

Yeah.

Kirsten: 9:11

I've had a lot of learning And. I would say the vast majority of learning, all of these things has been within the last five years.

Kimber: 9:18

Um, yeah.

Kirsten: 9:19

which is a bummer, you know, like talking to my kids, especially truthfully, I'm like, I'm trying to teach you something that I just learned. Think of the life that you're going to live. Think of that leg up, that you're going to have. If you can own this at 13, if you can do that. And I believe that you can, I believe that you have what it takes to do that, to do it now. And I want to help you along that road. If you can, if I can. You.

Kimber: 9:42

What do you think is one of the like biggest things that you're trying to communicate to them in this idea of like guarding yourself against comparison or like, you know, what, what is like, how do we do it? You know, what's like one of the biggest things you think that can help us, get free from this, like looking at other's reality and thinking it's, it's necessarily the whole reality.

Kirsten: 10:03

Well, guarding ourselves against comparison. It's really interesting because none of my, I have one child that's like me and who she tests me because she's the most like me. Um, but I have kids that, you know, I'm outspoken and I'm very direct and I'm not a shy person. And I have a child that is insanely shy and really struggles with. Even approaching people for conversation. And it's been, it's given me such a good opportunity because my hardest for her, and I love her so much. And I want her to win in a way that maybe we don't look at friends that way. Maybe we're not looking at our friends as in like you're made differently, but I still want you to win. And so I'm able to press into that with a bit of a different perspective now. That I'm trying to shape this child that doesn't see herself as having these abilities. and like you had said, I have learned that the best thing that I can give is casting a vision for them when they don't have that for themselves and believing that they are capable and pointing out the skills that they have, because we all come to the table with our own skills. And because of our skills, we have our own downfalls. And we have areas of weakness that people that are gifted differently don't have, and therefore they're going to have different battles. And so it's not really comparing like their giftings. It's just taking your giftings and walking well and full and beautifully in your giftings because you weren't called to be somebody else you're called to be yourself. And that looks different. for all of us. And it looks different for my kids that are equipped with different skills and talents and passions. And that's how God made it because we need. Those giftings and skills. we need. The differences. how bland it would be if everyone was like me or you, or just one person, we need all of it to make it exceptional. You know?

Kimber: 11:49

Yeah. because it's like, it sounds to me like it's focusing less on what we feel like we lack and more on. what have we been gifted with that we can learn to walk in like as good stewards and walk in confidently? You know, it's like, When it comes to what we're talking about with this today, I just, I feel like this is such a good reminder of just like how. I think our misunderstanding of others reality, or not even misunderstanding, but just like focusing too much on comparing our reality to others. It just like magnifies our loneliness because it's like, we feel like we're lacking something, you know? And it's like, what am I missing here? And I think sometimes if we just had that more perspective, like you're talking about of like, okay, we're just different.

Kirsten: 12:38

Hm.

Kimber: 12:38

each other's differences. You know, we might have more confidence to go out and learn about each other's like meet each other in our differences rather than saying, oh, because I'm not like that. I am. Uh, lacking something and therefore I'm all alone. I'm by myself, whatever It is. but it's, yeah, it's, it's a hard, it's a journey to learn that. Um, I would love to hear, if you can kind of tell us a little bit about your story. Um, with getting here, you know, one of the things that I want to like really drive home with this series is that loneliness is not a unique experience. Like it's, you know, we're not the only one experiencing it. And I think it can lose some of its power over us when we know that we're not the only one in this space, like we still feel it, I think. But. At least for me, it's like a lot of the battle is assuming that I'm the only one that's lonely. Therefore there's no one to go to because everyone else has these like idyllic perfect friendships. And so I'm just, I'm all alone here, but I know that's not true. And so I loved as I was, talking to you a little bit about. Coming on the podcast. you were talking about how you've experienced loneliness a little bit with me. And, um, I'd love to hear a little bit more about that because it's so like, you know, like I said, my perception of you has always been like, you know, oh man, Kirsten, so cool. Like she's, she's got it, you know, and you know, it's not that you don't, but it's still been a journey for you. And so I would love if you just kind of shared with us a little bit, to start out just how have you experienced loneliness? Um, Um, how has this looked in your life?

Kirsten: 14:10

Yeah. Just to address really quickly, something. You just said that I love. When you focus on what you don't have. It feeds that insecurity in you instead of focusing on your gifting nets and when you feed your insecurity. It causes you to pull back because you feel not enough. And then you do feel like I am the only one. I am in this alone. And, it just your perspective, the power perspective is, is so remarkable and why God tells us to hold our thoughts captive. You know, and, and to look at it in a different light. Um, but for me looking back, I am. Pretty outgoing. And I was pretty unaware of my loneliness in my youth because I was social and I grew up in a safe place. but I also grew up in an environment where suppressing my emotions served me very well. And when you carry that over throughout your life, you find yourself lonely. And that's where I found myself, you know, we all have things and pass and reasons that leave us at loneliness.

Kimber: 15:10

Hm.

Kirsten: 15:11

Um, But you don't know what you don't know. And the truth is, is that I didn't know how to find a friend. I didn't know how to be a friend. And it's funny that you say that I had it because I didn't, I didn't have it. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know what it. looked like. And it seemed that everyone around me did have it, that these relationships that were. You know, authentic and deep, we're just gifted to them. And I didn't get that. Like, I, I wasn't blessed with that. Um, and at that point in time, my husband was really good friends with a couple of core believers that, you know, they had kind of gone through a hard time together. Um, And that forge is something special when you have like Jesus in that too. And, one day he said to me, and he didn't mean it unkindly, but he's like, you need to find, you need to find a friend like this. You need to find a friend like that. And I'm like, I had been trying.

Kimber: 16:02

Why do I do? Yeah.

Kirsten: 16:03

they are not giving them away at Walmart. And I am like trying. to position myself in a way If only. but you know, I've been trying to hang out with new people and I just wasn't winning in this area. And I wasn't getting the thing that I wanted so badly and that he seemed to have so easily. Um, and it was a good thing that I desired. And so I, in that place, I asked God to provide for me what, I didn't know how to provide for myself. And. He was so faithful because I didn't have the tools, you know, I didn't have the tools. And so he provided me my first and still my best friend. Um, And that is so kind of him, right? That's his goodness being poured out because that's not always what happens and that's okay. He's still kind and he's still getting me still faithful. But, you know, since that moment he has equipped me more with what that looks like in the future. And. That's good news, right? Because there is nothing special that you have to have to be a good friend. You can learn how to be a good friend. How to be a faithful person, how to be intentional and interested in the other person, you can learn how to genuinely care for other people and you can learn how to want good for them. And to pursue that for yourself. And I guess what I learn is I could take control over the things that I could control, because there's so much that's beyond my control. I couldn't go to Walmart and purchase that friend that I wanted. But I could control the things that were within my ability. And so, I started just asking myself questions and looking deeply for answers. What does a good friend look like to me? What, what do I want, what do I envision when I envision a good friends? And, we always hear like, be the kind of spouse that a spouse that you want would be attracted to. And we can so easily apply that to friendships. Yeah, Be, be the kind of friend that you want to have. and, and do that, you know, you can develop this skill of giving your all in those areas.

Kimber: 18:01

I love that. Cause it's, it's ties to what you said about the, just like our giftings. Like we can either focus on. Hey, this person seems to have what I lack. They've got it all. I wish they were my friend. Um, and then it's just a, like that just reiterate, reinforces our loneliness. Right. Which is not very helpful. Or we can focus on okay. what can I control here? Like you know, what. kind of friend would I want in the situation and how can I be like that person? Like what, how can my actions change here? And, you know, I think when we focus more on that, that's something that we can actually grow in. Um, rather than just like being resentful and wishing the other people were different. I think that that's such a helpful shift.

Kirsten: 18:48

For sure.

Kimber: 18:49

you said that, you know, thinking about what would I want in a friend? what were some of those things like for you? What. What were some of those things that you started focusing on for yourself?

Kirsten: 18:59

truthfully, because I didn't know how to be a good friend. I wanted someone to pursue me because I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to ask good questions. Um, and as I thought more deeply on this, and, and myself, I, I didn't receive compliments very well. And I realized I don't compliment people very comfortably either. What is that? What is that in myself? And so I just started asking myself hard questions and, Being able to look at those answers. Honestly, it's one thing to say that. And it's an entirely different thing to do because it's hard and it's kind of disappointing. Right. Cause it feels like wasted opportunity. When you look at it. Like beyond this is within my control and I'm not doing anything. To put myself in a better position to pursue this good for myself that I desire. and we want that reassurance that our work is going to work out how we want it to, you know, we want, we want that reassurance that I'm going to pursue these

Kimber: 19:56

Like I'm putting in my

Kirsten: 19:57

friend. Yes. I want the check, the box. I want to arrive. But, you know, We're not called to reassurances. We're just called the walkout or path to the best of our ability. And loneliness did lead me to that, which took time and it was lonely and that is sad. But you know, who said, the path of least resistance produces the best in us. And so we can look at that, honestly. And feel those emotions. Deeply and, and change. And it only when you can look at them, honestly, Can you make an actual difference because if you don't acknowledge where you're at. It's very hard to move.

Kimber: 20:37

I think that's a good reminder for us too, because like, I think I can sometimes tend to be the type of person who's like, okay, I'm feeling a negative emotion and I don't want to feel that. So instead I'm going to go out and try to fix it, which is, I mean, not, it doesn't always serve me poorly, but I think that there is room there to grow in. Acknowledging those feelings, like, you know, what am I experiencing here? And then maybe like you're saying, like ask the question of why, like you said, that, you know, I don't receive compliments well, like what is going on there? Because I think it's not as simple, always as. You know, doing this reflective work is like, Not always as simple as just like, oh, this is my problem. So now I know it's my problem, and I can not do it anymore. Like no, it's like, what is, what is the root issue here? I think a lot of times it comes down to like identity and insecurity. Um, like you mentioned earlier is like, you know, if, if I find an insecurity. here, then I think a lot of times that plays out in how I go about making friends, because making friends is a, it's a. It can be a. scary thing. It can be intimidating. Absolutely. Um, so yeah, it's like, okay. So how can I ask these more, introspective, like why questions to get to the root of what's going on here? when you're talking about, being able to, compliment people or like, I heard you talking the other day about just like the importance of affirming things in people that you're like genuinely seeing. And I think you were talking about even reading, the book, how to win friends and influence people. Is that the title, is. that right? Um, and so you're just talking about this idea of like celebrating and calling out people's strengths and like what you see in them and like affirming things that you think are. Our awesome or whatever it is, but like the difference between that and like flattery, and it sounds to me like this is maybe one of those practical tools that you've kind of learned to. Like help in this way. Can you explain that to us a bit? And for our friends listening, who didn't hear what I, what I heard the other day.

Kirsten: 22:38

Yes. So I had just finished reading how to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie. And I would highly recommend it, but in it, he talks about, the difference between Slattery and genuinely appreciating things on people and how we should be looking for those things that we genuinely appreciate about one another, because how it comes across. And we all know that this is true. When you hear someone speak from the heart, whether it is from their joy, if. It is on their pain. It is whatever it is from. If it's from conviction, there's something that like resonates with your heart and your soul. And so when you give somebody a compliment about them, that is genuine. And from the soul, they feel it right, like it reverberates in their heart and it encourages them. And what a gift appreciation is. We want to be appreciated for things we want. Our kids want to be appreciated for us. I want to be appreciated for what I am doing. As a spouse and as a mom and as a friend, all of those things we want to be seen, right. We want to be seen. And so Dale just talks about like flattery is insincere.

Kimber: 23:43

Right.

Kirsten: 23:44

And when you have gratitude, you appreciate these things about other people. It is obviously sincere one. Two games one. Advantage for yourself. And the other seeks to bless the other person. And, when our head spoke about it, the other day, I was listening to Dennis Prager. I listened to him. And he was talking about the link between gratitude and happiness. And he said, if you think about it long enough and hard enough, You will not be able to think about a person who is happy and ungrateful. And I kind of saw that as a challenge. I'm like, surely I can think of

Kimber: 24:15

You're like, let me see here.

Kirsten: 24:17

Yeah, no, he was right. That's why he's Dennis Prager and I'm not, but. They are so inextricably linked and, you know, we can express our gratitude by being lavish in our praise. And that is one thing that how to win friends and influence people talks about. Is to be lavish in our praise. And, and then that kind of snowballs into casting a vision for people when they don't have that for themselves. And in my parenting, that has been so beneficial, but in my marriage too, when you see something that somebody is striving for, that is good. And you call it out. Affirm this beautiful talent that they have. And this beautiful gifting that you appreciate. There's something in the appreciation of your, of your talents that makes you want to strive. To do more because it's a gifting and people see it in you. Right. And. That's a wonderful thing. And so. God put different kinds of beauty in each one of us. And it being recognized, sparked something in us, a desire to grow and nurture that talent. and we think that it's unseen and it really feels special when it's not unseen. and so, Like I had been making an effort, like what a gift we can give people. By genuinely appreciating. Genuinely seen the way that God made them unique to only them. And saying, yes, I love. That you're using your talents in this way. Keep being you because the world needs you to be the best you, you can be because I can't be that person. And we can come alongside one another and love on one another and appreciate giftings and enjoy other people's giftings. That they have them and maybe we wish we had them too, you know, like I wish I could sing like some of those people on church. It's so beautiful and I appreciate it so greatly. But it, it can not Rob you of your appreciation to right. You can appreciate someone's talents and delight in them and then affirm their talents and then let that be that right. It doesn't make you.

Kimber: 26:11

Right. Any

Kirsten: 26:12

It doesn't. Yes.

Kimber: 26:14

I love that idea because it's like my, I think my instinct is to think, well, if I call out. Someone else's gifting or whatever. And this is like super base. Not necessarily like my rational, like I know this is not true, but it's like, I think sometimes if I'm reluctant there, it's because I have this like scarcity mindset and it's like, well, if I affirm their gifting, whatever it is, then I'm somehow less than it's just this old like ranking system. Right. And it's it's so I think it's just so such a tactic of the enemy to keep us isolated because. I think what happens is like, we see these qualities in others and that is something that we're like, wow, like if we're talking about friendships specifically, it's like, maybe I want that in a friend. Like, they're awesome. I would want to be their friend. Right. But our insecurities, they tell us, well, we aren't worthy of that or it won't be reciprocated. And so that instead of like affirming them, like you're talking about and just like blessing them through that without any expectations back even, um, I think we let those strengths and gifts of them scare us into just like being intimidated by them.

Kirsten: 27:28

Um, Right.

Kimber: 27:37

What you're saying here is we just, unassumingly like not expecting anything back because that would be flattery. But more just called out stuff in people that we see that we're like, that's amazing. God is working in you. Keevon Cupid. Like whatever it is. Um, And I think that's, that's such like a more life-giving path that isn't again, so focused on what we lack, but more on, the gratitude of like what God has put in those around us. And I think that's such a man, that's such a cool perspective shift for me.

Kirsten: 28:09

It's wonderful. And you said a scarcity mindset and I can relate to that a hundred percent. But when you think of it, and again, like a lot of the growth in my life has been from shifting my perspective. Right? Learning, learning new things, but shifting from a scarcity mindset to an abundance mindset, right? Like we can feel like there's only a hundred percent to pass around all of us. But what if you're giving a hundred percent and I'm giving a hundred percent. And my friend upside me is giving a hundred percent and we're all trying to walk forward. In what God has for us, right? There is no scarcity because he didn't give you my talents and he didn't give me. Your talents. We're not dividing them. We are trying to walk in what we have to the best of our ability. And, and that's hard, you. you. know, it's

Kimber: 28:55

It is. So these, like this affirmation and kind of that idea is. like one of the ways that we can walk in it. Right? Like what are some other ways that you think we can start to walk Towards this perspective shift.

Kirsten: 29:07

It's such a loaded question, girl.

Kimber: 29:09

Yeah. Those are the best ones.

Kirsten: 29:12

uh, They are so good. Well, so I have been recently, I have been, um, Starting with Jesus. Like we want to start by walking in Jesus and what he calls us to do. and looking at that closely, we have the fruit of the spirit, which is love joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness. Self-control. And in there, I had been focusing on goodness in particular. And self-control because self-control goodness, because, it peaks my curiosity. What is that?

Kimber: 29:45

Yeah. Cause it's one of those words where we're like, oh, be good. Like, but what does that mean? Yeah.

Kirsten: 29:50

So I've been pursuing the answer to that question. And I've only gotten part way down the road, I would say. Um, but in self-control as well. So those are the areas that I've been leaning into and

Kimber: 30:01

What is partway down the road? What does goodness look like to you?

Kirsten: 30:04

Okay. So I'm taking these classes online. Hillsdale has these free classes that you can take. And I'm taking Aristotle's class on ethics and ethics. By definition is a way of living the good life. Through developing virtuous character through habitual action. And so in this class he talks about, and I love, defining my terms. Like what does it, what does goodness mean? And that, and that's how he started it out. He said to what is a good thing? The B. Uh, good thing. It has to be fully what it is. So think of a glass. To be a good glass. It has to be able to hold water. It can't be broken. It can't have a hole in the bottom of it. If it has a hole on the bottom, it's no longer a good glass. It's not useful for its purpose anymore. Right. It can be a good planter. Now it can be used for other things. It's not like it has no value, but it is no longer a good glass. And they talk about that. There are. You know, levels of goodness. And so just thinking over this idea of what it means to be good and like trying to pursue that and trying to pursue self-control in. you know, there are. there are. levels of goodness he talks about, and beauty is, and not to, like, you can have a regular glass. And then you can have something exquisite. And there are, there are levels of goodness, but it is our joy and our obligation to pursue what goodness is. And I guess I had never really thought on that. Goodness all that. much before that. and I'm finding it really fascinating to dig into. So that's been done.

Kimber: 31:40

Absolutely. I think that's, that's a fascinating concept to think on, especially through the lens then of like God's saying, when he made man like very good, you know, Like, I mean, yeah, there there's a lot that. I'm sure you're digging through there.

Kirsten: 31:55

I am. Yes. And it's funny you say that because the end of Genesis, when it said, God, God saw all that he had made and behold it was very good. And so we were made good and we can pursue that. Goodness. And so. Just kind of unpacking that in my head and what that, and what that looks like.

Kimber: 32:14

Yeah. That's so interesting because it's like, you know, with the idea of goodness, I think my initial instinct is to think of like, good behavior or doing what I'm supposed to quote unquote, Which, yeah, I don't, I don't know that those are super helpful constructs. And when it comes down to our friendships, it's like, am I being a quote, good friend? Or, you know, am I doing what I should, I guess by whose standards? Like who is, I mean, maybe the question there is like, Who decides good, like who decides that? what that standard is, what that purpose is, you know, for a glass. That's easy to say, but for like me, what does goodness look like for me? Well, if I'm a Christ follower, like it has to be defined by the Lord. And so not by necessarily society standards of like, what does a good friend look like? Or, you know, what does having a bunch of friends are like, you know, flourishing in the area of community. Um, it's not based on necessarily what. the world always says that might overlap with what the Lord says with this, but not always, maybe. Hm.

Kirsten: 33:21

For sure, for sure. But in also when you think about a creative thing and they do talk about that in the ethics class, too. You think about this creative thing, which implies a creator. Right. And the creator determines what your purpose is. And so to look at us as capable of goodness to be in fully ourselves. We have to acknowledge that there is a creator who determines our goodness.

Kimber: 33:44

Yeah.

Kirsten: 33:45

And again, that is walking in light of our gifts and who God made us to be. Um, I have this thing that I also listened to Andrew Klavan a lot, and I wanted to read this. Um, he says the aim of life is joy. And the path to joy is to become the person God made you to be. Not the person you want to be. The person God made you to be. And the way to do this is through the exercise of virtue and virtue can only be chosen, not in forest. So joy. Through virtue, which has to be chosen. And that's why God gave us free will to, to. freely choose our, choose him, right. To choose our road, that we are going to walk down. But the truth is, is that we all want to arrive at joy. We all want to be happy. Like. That's our aim, right? That's our goal. Like we want that feeling. and that's the way to get there

Kimber: 34:36

Yeah, but I love even that it says joy, not just happiness. I mean, because you know, we, I mean, I think people talk about how the difference there, And I think there is a difference, you know, and when it, when it comes to. Just this idea of goodness. Again, it's like that reminder that. Hey, that might not always be reflected in perfect circumstances or like just a total absence of hard feelings like

Kirsten: 35:04

Right.

Kimber: 35:05

Those things might be part of, walking in that fruit of the spirit of goodness. Mm. Yeah, Friend taking a quick break from my conversation with Kirsten to remind you that if you're looking for some more practical ideas to start putting what Chris and I are talking about into practice. I've got a free resource for you. It's called sticky notes and it's my free seven day mini course targeted to help you grow as a community minded person who prioritizes sticking with her people. It's got practical ideas and seven challenges, one for each day of the week. I call it seven days to sticky. And I really think it will help you take some first steps with some of Kirsten's ideas in mind. So download it, just visit my website, your sister, kimber.com, which you can find in the description of this episode. Okay. Friends. Back to the show. So just with this idea of like, finding friends, trusting the Lord through this journey. how do you feel like this is continuing to play out in your life? Like, what do you think is the number one thing that God is still teaching you? Just like in this area of, being someone who is pursuing friendships that are genuine, that are authentic. And from where you were like, when you were younger and you were talking about to like this journey, like, what do you think God is teaching you in this area right now?

Kirsten: 36:35

Hm. You know, um, I think that I am learning because all of these are new skills to me. Um, and I think that thing that he has taught me. Most recently is that I'm able, right? Like I'm able to lean into these things. I think so long, you know, no one lies to you more than you do. And I think so long I had believed the lie that. I just wasn't given these times, or I wasn't equipped with these things. And recently I've seen. Like, I may not have been equipped with these talents or these things, but I can sharpen what I have. And in fact, the people that are counting on me the most depend on me to do that. They depend on me to give them the best version of myself. Um, and I think, you know, that's just opportunity. I have a lot of opportunity on sticks opportunities. Does to really test in my patients every day. But, but, but truthfully, it's an opportunity to use this new. Skillset this new. perspective of walking in, who God has called me to be and, and thinking deeply on what that means for me. And starting out with you. I'm trying to. Um, I'm reading atomic habits right now. Um, And he talks about, you know, your character, your character is the summation of choices that you make. You are. The things that you do day by day. If you respond with honor to situations and virtue and integrity to things, you are an honorable and Virtuous person. And you have integrity. You continually build at these small choices that make up your character and then. In that Hillsdale college class, he also said character comes from. The Greek word. I don't remember. It was like, But it's like It's like to be burrowed into something. It is not something that you get by having one pass. Or two passes. Or three passes. You got to burrow it in. and we get the opportunity to make those decisions. Every day. And I think we do ourselves a disservice by not asking ourselves the question, like, who do I want to be? And I've really been trying to. Use that opportunity. I want to be a woman who seeks Jesus first. What would that woman do? That woman would, and then whatever my answer is, I pursue that for myself. And I try to ask myself those things. Like I am. I am. a mom who like, who do I want to be? And then I'm actively trying my best and I fail all of the time. But, the one thing that I do love about this atomic habits book, it isn't that you don't fail. It is that you get 1% better than you were yesterday. And you pursue that every day. And when you look back, you are a different person than you once were. You have chosen different things. You have chosen to set your eyes on different things. And

Kimber: 39:20

Those small stones, big

Kirsten: 39:22

Yes, it is what makes a life. It is what makes life. and you might not see the change for a long time. And again, you know, we talked about wanting to see the results. We want those assurances that we're going to get those things. But, um, in it, he has a story of a. When they used to carve stone. They would wail on the stone.

Kimber: 39:40

huh?

Kirsten: 39:41

90. 91 92 93, 94 times 95, 96, 97, 9900. And on the hundred and first strike it would break and it would break in half. And you said, was it something about special about that one time? Was it something special about that one strike? No, it's a compilation of all of those movements that were required to get to where you want to be. And I think I kind of look at life like that. Like, you're not going to be. the follower of Jesus that you want to be tomorrow, but you can't get a little bit closer to that by making conscious decisions. And. Small habits And. pursuing that goodness for yourself, pursuing the Lord for yourself, pursuing the hope that we have in Christ. For yourself, because you have what it takes to do that you are in control of you. And you. have the fortitude necessary. To make big movements for yourself and your family, those you love. And the kingdom of God, like all of it. It, none of it will go on effected.

Kimber: 40:39

And I, I love that perspective that it's like, you have been equipped to do this work because you know, the, the work of us, if it is the idea of Glorifying God enjoying him, telling people about Jesus. Like those are all things that we see in scripture laid out as part of our purpose. those things, God, isn't going to give us the call to do those things without equipping us to also do them. And so it's like, no, you know that again, that like not having that lack mindset, but, or scarcity mindset, but the idea that I have been equipped to do this, not only by the giftings that God has put in me and that, you know, he's honing in me, but even by the holy spirit, like, you know, as believers, we're empowered with the holy spirit to. you know, do even greater things than Jesus himself. And that's what he says, like, You know, that will do greater things than he did. And so Yeah. It's like, absolutely. And it doesn't come from, I love like, as believers, it doesn't come from this, like pull yourself up by your bootstraps. like, you can do better kind of rooted place. It's like, no, this is who you are like this who God has made you to be. And I love that idea of like calling out, you know, in affirming your gifts, whether it's in someone else or even in yourself, because that's what it sounds to me. Like you're saying here is not focusing on like, what do I lack here, but what has God given me that I can press into that? I can, develop that I can grow in and, and then like moving forward in confidence to the next right thing that you know, that the Lord's placed in front of me, whether it's growing closer to him, like you're saying trusting him more every day, or if it is, you know, moving towards others or. Uh, call on your life, Where we are. In the place we need to be to do that. Um, no matter what our circumstances are. We have very quick for that. I love that. So Kirsten for our friend listening right now, who she is just been resonating with what you're saying here. She's like, yeah. I feel like I just, I didn't have it. Like, I don't know. I didn't know how to make friends. Like, you know, why is this so hard? What do I do? What's my next step. what would you say is your encouragement for her today? Where would you tell her to start?

Kirsten: 42:45

I would say that it is hard. I would say that. it is hard. and the truth is, is that all good? Things are hard. But you have to, you know, the same, choose your heart, lean into the hard things because you have what it takes. You have what it takes to be a good friend in. And genuinely, that is why I think that what you're doing is so beautiful because you're equipping people. With how to do the hard things that maybe they don't know how to do. And it is really something special to have the practical and tangible tools, the steps that you can actually take where it's like, okay, that's a great, that's a great idea. But. But how do I do that? I remember, I remember asking this couple, they had the most wonderful children. And I was like, okay. So can you Tell me about that. Like how, how, how did you do that? Like I genuinely, and I'm not kidding. I had a notepad.

Kimber: 43:39

Right.

Kirsten: 43:40

like, it really is God's grace. And I was like,

Kimber: 43:42

Oh,

Kirsten: 43:43

okay. Yeah. So, okay. But like, if you

Kimber: 43:46

But also, could you give me a practical step?

Kirsten: 43:48

yeah. How did you walk into God's grace? Give me a 1, 2, 3 here, you know? And we want that. And there are things that. you can pursue. And this is one of those things. There are things that you can pursue to find those steps for yourself.

Kimber: 44:02

Yeah. Absolutely.

Kirsten: 44:04

but that you do have everything that you need to be, who God made you to be, and you just have to let go of the fear. You know, the fear dominates so much of it. but we do have a hope. Have you, have you heard of the hope experiment?

Kimber: 44:21

I don't think so. No.

Kirsten: 44:23

Joe Rogan talked about this on his podcast. and the whole experiment was performed by basically the took a barrel. And they put a mouse or a bad, I don't recall which into

Kimber: 44:33

Oh, okay. I think I have heard about this.

Kirsten: 44:35

And they. Recorded how long the mouse would swim. Until I gave up and died and it slammed for about 20 minutes and I gave up and died. And so they perform the experiments again and they put a Malison and at 20 minutes it gave up. And the scientist scooped down, picked it up, took it out and dried it off and then put it right back in. No

Kimber: 44:56

Um,

Kirsten: 44:58

And he swam until his heart literally exploded. Because what we are capable of doing, if we have the hope that we can achieve it. And is insane. We are capable of so much. God is so creative and in his infinite wisdom, he gave you some really beautiful things.

Kimber: 45:17

Yeah.

Kirsten: 45:18

But you need to have the hope that he did and we need to pursue this hope that cannot die, that we have in Jesus. Um, and it's so powerful what that can do, but it's also really powerful. What can happen when we don't have it? We don't even rise. We don't even rise. We give up and we, we, we let fear and these negative stories, which is a hundred percent the enemy. Lying to us. And there's a little bit of truth in it that we believe, Right. Instead of shifting that perspective to seeing the good, and I think that is if I could impart anything. His perspective is everything. You can have two people living the exact same life with the exact same things. And one will be grateful and the other is not. One is happy and the other is not the only differences perspectives. And that's good because it's the only thing you can control.

Kimber: 46:09

Because that's something very doable. Yeah. And I love that reminder. They like, it starts with one, like with the stone metaphor, you know, like it's. One grateful moment. Like one moment of, you know, this is something that I believe is possible in my life. And so how can I move towards it today? Yeah.

Kirsten: 46:29

In, uh, atomic habits too, he talks about, Pursuing goals. So being like goal centered, Versus identity being at the center. Out. So he talks about like, if you want to, you have a goal of reading your Bible every day, right? You can achieve that goal. And then your goal is done and knew crushed yet. You did it. You checked the box. You're going to go back to reverting to the way you were most likely, unless you've developed a system and you value the systems. There are ways to avoid it. But if you see yourself is I am a Christ follower who values putting him first in my life. That is who I am. Then you act identity out and you see this play out with people who love exercise, who love, you know, people who love these things. That's who they see themselves as to be. So. To be themselves isn't hard, right? It just, it just is because that's where they find their identity. And I have looked at the things that I find that I identify with and some of them are not good. Some of those things I have to let go, because the truth is, is that they're hurting me. And I am capable of looking at that, honestly. And I'm capable of shifting that in deciding who do I want to be?

Kimber: 47:42

Um,

Kirsten: 47:42

identity out, making those things slowly bit by bit, day by day, 1% by 1%. Come to fruition because it's my, it's my habits. It's my character. It's my choice.

Kimber: 47:54

Yeah. And it seems to me like the reason that you would want to, at least from what you're saying here, it's like you have the motivation to do this, like introspective work that it sounds like. you, Kirsten are probably a wealth of. learning here in how to look introspectively because man, I feel like so often we don't know how to reflect on. Our life on our actions. And I love the questions that you keep kind of throwing out there as examples to us of like, you know, what is the type of mom I want to be here? What is the type of, a Jesus follower I want to be here. And like then reflecting and looking on that almost from an outside perspective, like in, on ourselves, but it's like, I think you have the motivation to do that hard work because of what you're saying about the vision casting, like, you know, you know that your actions and who you are as a person, it. Has ripples for your children. For your friendships, like the people in your life or your marriage. And so it is worth looking at those hard questions and pressing into them because it matters. it matters. for, for our relationships. And I think that is. Man that coming to that realization like that clarity of this is. why I can press in here is maybe even a first step. for some of us of like, okay, like where do I start? Well, you probably need to look within. And see, um, because different for all of us is what I'm is what I'm guessing.

Kirsten: 49:20

Yeah. And there's freedom and asking questions when you're ready to find the answers. Um, to be honest, I couldn't ask myself a lot of these questions. Because I wasn't ready to change. I didn't, I didn't value the change enough to do the hard things. Right. And so I kind of started asking myself these questions and, and deciding to make these choices. And, you know, the work comes first. The faith in your ability comes next. So just be faithful for the work. Just be faithful to following the person that you want to be. And then the faith in that will develop over time because you will gain confidence in your ability to do that because you'll prove that you can achieve those things little bit by little bit. And that does instill some confidence at you that maybe I am capable of effecting these, like these things in my life. And maybe I, You see the fruit? of it. Yeah. But that takes time. That takes a lot of time. And we are a culture in a society of immediacy. We want. Instant results. And you know, so often we give up. Great before that hundred and first stroke. You know, we give up at 99, cause we're like, well, this obviously isn't working for me. I wasn't made for this. S carving sculptures is not for me, obviously. You know, but you're like, if you could only know that you're two strikes away from something big and it doesn't matter how long it takes. Because it's war, it's a worthy pursuit. And I think again, when you shift your perspective on the pursuit on Jesus is worthy. Your children are worthy. Your husband is worth all your friendships are worthy. All of these are worthy. Things to pursue

Kimber: 51:01

Yeah.

Kirsten: 51:02

and you will get fruit from it. If you are faithful.

Kimber: 51:05

Yeah. Slowly man. So good friend. I so appreciate you just sharing your wisdom and your heart with us on this. I, feel like, I could have lots more of these conversations with you and just scratch the surface of everything that you're learning here and. I appreciate you sharing it with us today.

Kirsten: 51:23

Thank you so much for having me. It's a wonderful time.

Kimber: 51:25

So historically I have ended the podcast by asking my friends about their plants and. in this new year on the podcast, I actually, I do want to switch it up a little bit and talk about something else to close out my episodes, but. I mean, Kirsten, I can't not talk to you about plants. So, um, So we're going with, we're going with the old one today. Cause you are like the plant lady. Um, Yes. Do you even know how many you have.

Kirsten: 51:53

Well, yes. But I don't want to say no, I'm just kidding. I have. I have a hundred. Um, but,

Kimber: 52:01

Like even a hundred, like right on. Is it like a thing? Do you

Kirsten: 52:06

it's like 102. No, no, no, no. I lost a bunch of my plants. My, my girlfriend, Is doing missionary work in California. And so she needed someone to watch all of her plants for her for a year.

Kimber: 52:17

Uh, huh.

Kirsten: 52:18

And I was like, I'll do it. Well, she had like 50. So I had. 50 plants and it was a bit much, so to feel.

Kimber: 52:28

So you're like, okay, now I know my limit a little

Kirsten: 52:31

I'm breathing easy. I'm breathing easy. At a hundred now. Yeah. Yeah.

Kimber: 52:35

Um, man, I had the opportunity to come over to your house, a while ago. And I was just like, I mean, They're everywhere. and it's so beautiful. so fun. Which one would you say one or two is bringing you the most joy right now?

Kirsten: 52:47

I love my fiddle leaf fig, probably the most cause I've seen, it's been, you know, it's been costly and I've actually worked at shaping it quite a bit.

Kimber: 52:56

Oh,

Kirsten: 52:57

It is rewarding. I've cut off of them. And when you spend that much on a plant, because they're not inexpensive

Kimber: 53:03

Yeah.

Kirsten: 53:03

Cutting a part of it off is like,

Kimber: 53:05

A big deal. Yeah.

Kirsten: 53:07

It's so scary and I lost one of my cuttings, so I really delight in seeing it flourish. Um, Because it was costly. You

Kimber: 53:14

Yes. Yes. Those are the ones that you're like. Okay. This one is like a little bit more special. I have one or two that I'm like, eh, whatever. That happens to them, happens to them. But then there's a couple where I'm like, man, we've been through it. So you need to hang on.

Kirsten: 53:30

you and me. Yeah, you ain't going nowhere. I will love you through it.

Kimber: 53:35

Ah, that's so fun. Well, Kristen, thanks so much for being here today. I love I loved it. Thank you so much rent.

Kirsten: 53:40

Thank you for having me.

Kimber: 53:50

Sisters. I'm so glad you could join Kirsten and I for today's conversation on the, your sister Kimber podcast. Remember friends. You're not the only one who's lonely out here. We're all fighting this BS right alongside you. We might as well link, arms, right? I'm really thankful for the wisdom Kirsten shared with me today. And I hope we blessed you too. If it did, would you take a moment to leave a rating and review on apple podcasts? The link is in the description of this episode and your reviews. Not only help new friends find the show, but also help them know that it's worth their listen. Thanks so much for being part of this community of women, working together to grow authentic friendships in our lives and stop living lonely. You're a blessing to me, friend. And lastly, do you get my weekly newsletter friend? If you don't, you need to, especially because I just revamped it for the new year. When you subscribe on my website to your sister, Kimber, you'll get my newsletter delivered straight to your email inbox. Every Tuesday. It's still includes, what's featured on the blog and podcasts that week, but I've also added some new content that I think you're going to want to see. Truly. I hope these additions help you grow friendships, honor God and draw closer to Jesus and really practical ways. So be sure to subscribe on my website, which is linked in the description of this episode. Friends. Thanks so much for being part of this community. Until next time. It's your sister Kimber.