Ep.41 In Different Seasons + Mackenna Marstall

When your friend is in a different relational season than you, it can put stress on your friendship. Kimber talks with Mackenna about her experience navigating friendship and loneliness through shifting relational seasons such as singleness, marriage, divorce, loss, and even spiritual singleness. With Valentine's Day around the corner, they discuss practical ways to love on your friends in different seasons than you relationship-wise both during the week of love...and year-round.

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Transcript

Kimber: 0:09

Hey friends. Welcome to the, your sister Kimber podcast. My name is Kimber Gilbert, and I'm so glad you're here. Valentine's day is next week. And while chocolate is always a win in my book, we all know that Valentine's day, isn't all gifts and cards and date nights for many of our friends. Today. I want to take a moment to talk about how we can love our friends. Well, who are in challenging or even just different seasons and us relationship wise Both during this week when everything is red hearts and Cupid's everywhere. And the rest of the year, too. Being in a different spot relationally, then your friend can put tension on your friendship. but actually talking to our friends who are in different seasons than us, about how to love them well, right. Where they're at can help us navigate challenges that arise. So that's what we're doing today. My friends, we were sitting down with my friend, McKenna, who has walked through a lot of different and challenging relational seasons. Some that I have and some that I have not. She's an incredibly thoughtful person. So I'm really excited to learn from her unique perspectives. How we can better love our friends who are in a different season than us. I hope this conversation helps you grow authentic community and friendships that honor God and draw closer to Jesus. Girl. I wish we could talk this out over coffee, but of course this is the next best thing. I'm so glad you're here. Let's get started. McKenna. Hey, Hey.

Mackenna: 1:41

Hi. Hello.

Kimber: 1:42

Thanks for being on the podcast today. I'm so excited to talk to you.

Mackenna: 1:45

I'm so excited to be able to podcast long time listener. First time guest.

Kimber: 1:49

Heck. Yeah. I was thinking about this as we were preparing for a conversation you're such a thoughtful person, like really conscientious, I think. And you just think of things that I don't always, and that is one reason that I'm really excited to talk to you about our topic today. So thanks so much for being here.

Mackenna: 2:05

Thank you. I'm really excited.

Kimber: 2:07

Yeah. What'd you just start by introducing yourself for our friends listening, who don't know you.

Mackenna: 2:11

Uh, my name is McKenna. I am about to turn 31. I live here in Eagle river. It's been two days it's coming up

Kimber: 2:19

I know it's so exciting.

Mackenna: 2:22

And I just had a net. Uh, nephew, my first nephew ever this morning.

Kimber: 2:27

oh my goodness. Congratulations. That's so exciting.

Mackenna: 2:31

had her second baby this morning, which is really exciting. Um, and she always picks really cool names. So we are

Kimber: 2:38

what's his name?

Mackenna: 2:38

to Mox. M O X.

Kimber: 2:41

Oh, that is really

Mackenna: 2:42

older sister is Slade.

Kimber: 2:45

Yes, that's right. I remember. Well, I didn't remember it, but I remembered that it was unique. And so, yeah. That's cool. Nice.

Mackenna: 2:53

So I'm really excited to have another. We've never had another January birthday in the family and slate and mocks are

Kimber: 3:00

Oh,

Mackenna: 3:00

to the day, the same age. Part as me and my sister.

Kimber: 3:03

Oh, that's so sweet.

Mackenna: 3:05

Yeah.

Kimber: 3:05

I love it. Well, I'm excited to talk to you today. McCann. I think that maybe our conversations are always fun because I think we just have. a shared love of conversation or like discourse from just our English teacher hearts. Um, you are in your which, which year of teaching is that for you?

Mackenna: 3:23

This is my seventh here in Alaska, my eighth over all, which makes me feel. Ancient.

Kimber: 3:30

I love it. I taught for six years. So you have surpassed me, even though I think I technically started before you.

Mackenna: 3:36

you. shared it. Yeah.

Kimber: 3:37

Are you loving it still? I think that you're probably such a great teacher. Are you enjoying it still?

Mackenna: 3:42

Yeah. I think I'm in it for the long haul. I'm definitely in that kind of middle of like, You know, I've maxed out pretty much every direction I can go and I don't want to be a principal. Um, and it's kind of, it's kind of weird to finally have everything you ever planned and worked for.

Kimber: 3:57

Yes. You're like where from here?

Mackenna: 4:00

Well, now I have another 25 years of this. This is great, but like, I just always been like the next. I've been guilty of BIMA. It'll be better when person and I feel like I'm finally at the point. In my career and finances and relationships and everything that like, it really can't get much better. And, um, you know, I always get to see what God has to dance. Cause I don't have an idea.

Kimber: 4:21

Oh man. And such like an opportunity to learn some contentment and just like, yeah, that, that is such an interesting, position to find yourself in, because I think I'm kind of the same way. Like I'm. I'm. very goal oriented. Like what's the next thing that is on the horizon kind of deal. And so sometimes it, Yeah. it's hard for me to sit in one spot too. So I feel that for sure. What's your favorite part of your job that you get to do? Would you say.

Mackenna: 4:47

Oh, gosh. just the kids. I know that's such a generic answer, but there are so classic. I, um, I coached a bait and then unplanned ended up coaching e-sports this year.

Kimber: 4:58

Yes. Which for, for our non like savvy people, What is that

Mackenna: 5:02

it's it's um, a bunch of boys, we cannot get a girl on the team. I'm trying really hard. but we have like 12 young gentlemen who have never been accountable to a coach or a team before. and they've never had to like worry about grades in order to stay on a team. They've never had to like follow a social contract. Um, so, but they're really good. Like I, I just said, you know, I've got the yearbook monitors, so you guys are welcome to practice in here until we can find you a coach. And then we never

Kimber: 5:30

well, that's how that goes. Yes.

Mackenna: 5:32

Yeah. So, we almost made it to state. We made it to the final four in state, um, without really. Yeah, which was like,

Kimber: 5:39

That's so cool.

Mackenna: 5:41

So it was, it was awesome. I don't think I can call myself a coach. I think I'm a facilitator.

Kimber: 5:45

No, that's, I think you're, coach because it's not just about teaching the skill. That's part of it, for sure. But. We

Mackenna: 5:53

I'm coaching on how to be on a team, but they are definitely coaching themselves. The techniques, which is fun. So.

Kimber: 5:59

Ah, that's awesome. How cool. Well, you know, I mean, you're always, I feel like trying something new or like going for something that is a need and you are the person, it seems like, at least from the outside, who's like, yeah, I can, I can figure that out. I can tackle that. And so I think that you're, you're willing spirit is just what our schools need. So I applaud you, Fred. It's

Mackenna: 6:20

Yeah. I get a lot of flack for never saying no, but I actually, I think it's the lifestyle for me. Like just always being open to something new.

Kimber: 6:27

Hmm. That's really cool. Well, Yeah. And as long as you're like holding yourself to like a workable life standard, then I think it's like, go for it. Yeah. Do what you have the capacity for. That's cool. Well, McKenna, we are in a series right now on the podcast about loneliness and, It's like kind of a weird ask, you know, like, will you come on the podcast and talk to me about your loneliness? Like, it's kind of, it's a little bit of a hard topic, you know, not exactly fun maybe to talk about, but. I think it's so important. And, I'm really excited about what we're going to talk about today because I think it, it really matters what we do with This common experience like it's for sure. Been a part of my story. I really think it's probably been a part of everyone's story. And so I've been loving, looking at how we can handle this in a way that honors God and like propels us forward and towards our people, rather than just wallowing in our own bitter, selfish parts of our hearts. So. I would love if we could just start digging in here by hearing kind of how loneliness has been a part of your story. Like what has been the impact of this idea on your life and where has this shown up for you?

Mackenna: 7:32

I think my loneliness is definitely the alone in a crowded room. Kind of loneliness. I've always had a lot of really awesome people around me. But just who aren't going through the same thing that I'm going through. in that moment. so I grew up in Oregon and I got married pretty young. I married a guy from no.

Kimber: 7:51

Yeah.

Mackenna: 7:52

And we moved up to Anchorage because I told them I would do Alaska. Um, but then I wanted to be kind of like, you know, on a road system.

Kimber: 7:59

You're like, this is my compromise.

Mackenna: 8:01

Yeah. I did my time and no, I love it. I just didn't want to be young. And though I was cool with like the idea of maybe raising kids a gnome, but I just didn't want to be in my twenties in. Um, Yeah. I wanted to start my career in. You know, start my life somewhere a little bit bigger. But when I first moved here, I didn't have anybody. I moved up here. my ax was, An engineer. And so he immediately got sent out on a project in eight acts, which you'd have to Google map. It's almost as far from Ingrid to Seattle. and he, sent me up in his grandparents. Basement for the summer. And my best friend was Babers who was in her. You know, late seventies and I didn't have a job yet. And we had 10 gigs a month of wifi. So I had to go to the gym to watch Hulu

Kimber: 8:44

That's hilarious. Yeah. Friends listening. If you're not if you don't live in Alaska, you might not know this, but Alaska has only recently entered the unlimited wifi game. Like that was within my memory of living here in the LA over the last like eight, nine years. That has been like a very recent development, which is just

Mackenna: 9:03

I think it was. I think it was. COVID actually that finally got rid of any of the meter packages. I think they finally gave up. On that they didn't allow people to continue buying it. They made everybody move to the unlimited package, which was, that was fancy. When I moved here. If you were unlimited, you were a Starbucks or a million. Nothing else.

Kimber: 9:20

Yes. Totally true. So true.

Mackenna: 9:23

So, um, How is definitely a tough season for me. And then I got hired a week before school started and, um, it was the first quarter before I even saw my husband again. Um, and so my only friends were, I mean, I wasn't friends with my students, but I was friendly. So the only people I got to do friendly or social with where my kids. and then I, met the art teachers and if you ever need. Uh, place in the school to find friends. You just go to the art. And they'll they'll adopt you. and they kind of, they become my lifelong friends. I mean, I'm still, I'm still really close with both of them who kind of took me under their wing. just, day one friends and they just accepted me and all of my anxieties and my first year. TJ, you know, I knew how I was going to decorate my classroom, but I had no idea how I was going to teach world literature.

Kimber: 10:06

man. That is real right. Look out for your first year teacher, friends, everyone like. Oh, man, the struggle is real. I love hearing stories of people who. are people who. can quickly bring people in. Like, those are the kinds of people when you are in this, spot of loneliness where you're like, oh my gosh, I literally have no one. Man finding those kinds of people is such a blessing because it just, yeah. They take care of you.

Mackenna: 10:33

it was just so instant, the way that they accepted me words and all, for who I was and just. Listen to every single day to all the things I was struggling with. and that's just, that's not the kind of person I've ever been. I don't. I always ask myself, like, why would they want to be friends with me? Like, I'm not going to push my friendship on anybody. And I am so grateful for the extroverts in the world who can and will do that. On a regular basis. I have incredible confidence in front of my students, but I have a really hard time connecting with adults it's night and day. Just how good I am. being loud and proud in front of teenagers, but you remove that audience. And it's realized again, and I just, it's not easy for me.

Kimber: 11:12

Yeah. I feel like I experienced that a little bit too with the classroom mine. Wasn't very, like I had to grow that. But I understand like why it wouldn't necessarily be the same for everyone because teaching is a performance, in a way you're onstage, like, yeah. And then you're done and you walk away and it's like, if a student doesn't like you, that's a very different thing. I feel like, like, they don't like you as a teacher, whatever. That's a very different thing than being rejected by a peer who you are like reaching out to as a friend that is they don't like you or whatever that, yeah. And that's a way more serious thing. I think.

Mackenna: 11:46

yeah. And then, well, the next level of loneliness was, being like basically spiritually single,

Kimber: 11:52

Yeah.

Mackenna: 11:53

Me. And my ex were extremely, religious when we first got married, but transitioning to Anchorage, we just never found a church that we both wanted to be a part of. And we shopped around. but it became clear that like, I was definitely more interested in being in a church than he was. Um, he definitely had a face. but he kind of felt that church was like high school. Like you go to learn your faith and then you leave it. And you're ready to live your life without that. That those training wheels. I think his, the way he kind of saw it. And I needed that because I mean, That's how you make friends as an adult.

Kimber: 12:25

Yes. Yes.

Mackenna: 12:26

part of a church,

Kimber: 12:28

I agree with that, Steven man, if you don't like your coworkers and you're not like in a church community, I literally don't know how people make friends. I mean really? I that's where I do. Yeah.

Mackenna: 12:39

Yeah. I, I guess you can get like a really niche hobby. Like, I feel like that tired bikers. And they're all

Kimber: 12:44

Yes. That's true. If you can find like a, yeah, like a social circle somehow, but man, that is like, if someone's lonely and you haven't tried a faith community, start there because.'cause Yeah. Community is such a huge part of faith at least the Christian faith, it has to be, you know?

Mackenna: 13:02

Yeah. so I've started seeking out churches and I shopped around a lot. And at the end of my first year, Um, we ended up buying a house out in Eagle river and I had driven by ACS. A dozen times. And I just knew that if we ever lived in Eagle river, that that was probably going to be. Where'd it go. I went to a couple of different places and I finally went to ACF and it just, felt like home, there was just this hum there. I can't describe it.

Kimber: 13:25

I love that. Yeah.

Mackenna: 13:26

It's like a baseline in a song. You don't hear it until it's gone. And then, you know, when it's not there. Um,

Kimber: 13:33

way to describe it. Wow. It's almost like you're an English teacher or something.

Mackenna: 13:37

Something like that.

Kimber: 13:38

I love that though. Yeah. Like you can feel the heart behind it. Yeah.

Mackenna: 13:42

And I, went online and I looked at our website, was it four or five years ago? And

Kimber: 13:47

Yeah. Uh, more than that, I think.

Mackenna: 13:49

Life groups. When did you find out you were PCSA?

Kimber: 13:53

Um, it was, we were gone for four years, so,

Mackenna: 13:56

Do you remember, like the month that you found out that you were going to be leaving early?

Kimber: 13:59

Yeah, it was like, it was November. it was November of. 2017.

Mackenna: 14:05

Okay. That was when I started coming to life group because

Kimber: 14:08

Oh, was It that late? Interesting. Okay.

Mackenna: 14:12

it was crazy because. you guys invited me and it was a long time between when you find out when you left. I mean, it was like, what? Eight months?

Kimber: 14:19

Yeah, probably that's probably about right.

Mackenna: 14:21

And I remember I went there and, I think you actually told me the wrong time. I

Kimber: 14:25

Oh, I probably did.

Mackenna: 14:27

Um, so I showed up at six. And there were no. cars there and I just kind of sat in my car and I was like, I think I'm at the right house. Oh, yeah, you probably are. You're a little early. And I was like, oh, I thought I started at six she's like, and you were like, I, yeah, I probably told you that. I

Kimber: 14:41

Oh, my gosh. But so funny.

Mackenna: 14:43

Well, I came anyway, hung out with you guys and, and then everybody started to show up and it was great. And I remember thinking this is so fantastic. And. We had a meal together and we met as a big group and I was like, this might be my people. I'm so excited. Oh, this one's a teacher. She seems so cool. And then we go in your, we go in your back room and you tell us that you're moving. And I was like, you gotta be kidding me.

Kimber: 15:06

You're like typical.

Mackenna: 15:08

Yeah. And then I was like, okay, but not for a while. So we'll see how this

Kimber: 15:12

my goodness. I didn't realize that we had only been in group together for. Like six, eight months. That is

Mackenna: 15:18

Well, that's the power of being real like relationships form bass. When you don't allow people to hide. So, and you didn't let us hide.

Kimber: 15:26

Hmm.

Mackenna: 15:29

You told us we had in the rail and it got real,

Kimber: 15:31

Um, yeah. It was such a good time. you know, it really is. I love what you said there that like, when we have people in our lives who don't allow us to hide, that's such like a nuance thing. I think you know, cause there's, that can be done poorly where it's like, you know, you feel like you're being exposed or like made uncomfortable, but it's like, man, if we can hone in on that. That way of like bringing people in. So it's like, they want to be real in that way and it feels safe and possible, man. I think that is just. There's such an opportunity to go deep there, like you said, and I mean, I think that's by the grace of God, like that, that was created in that space because I've been in spaces too, where I haven't been able to. You know, make that happen. And so I think it is, it's just, man, it's a member of the holy spirit. It's really cool. I love that you remember that? That's so cool.

Mackenna: 16:23

Well, Hey, I think it might be your gift. Like it's something you are in particular. Very good at. But being you did it through modeling. And in that moment, you guys were kind of heartbroken that you were leaving a little sooner than you expected. and you were definitely still processing it. Um, and there were two new people in the room that night but I think you went first and you modeled the rest, what it was to be real and to be vulnerable. And that's important is, is the modeling. You know, And there's there's people who, who. make you be real by pulling it out of you and they don't give any of that vulnerability in return. Um, and I think that you, you had a really good balance there of we're going to be real and I'll show you how to be real right now.

Kimber: 17:00

Hm. Here it is. Yeah, man. And in that season I had plenty to be real about, cause yeah, that was emotionally. Such a hard time, but also a really sweet time. Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. Thanks for sharing that. I love reflecting back on that. And it's always interested in interesting hearing things from other people's perspectives and what stuck with them. And that's one of the reasons I love having these conversations here on the podcast because, just like hearing people's perspectives that are. different or the same as mine, even sometimes, but from just a different mouth and a different brain is just so fascinating to me. And actually that kind of leads us into really what I want to talk about today. What I like to kind of peel back the layers on here. It's just loving our friends well, who are in different relational seasons than us. And this is one of those opportunities that we have to. be able to hear other perspectives and just consider other perspectives on life. That may not be our personal experience, but how can we listen to that and learn from it? And, when I approached you about this, I was like, man, Valentine's day is around the corner. Um, coming up and I personally just feel like Valentine's day is a really complicated holiday. Like, I suppose I should be part of the population that should really like it because I'm in a marriage that I, yeah. I want to celebrate that relationship, but. it just always feels really kind of problematic to me. Uh, kind of like mother's day it's like, I want to celebrate mother's day, but I also just have so many people around me that that is not a easy day to celebrate. And so. It just feels hard for me a little bit. This Valentine's day. So what has been like your approach to Valentine's day historically? What's your, what's your vibe with Valentine's day coming up here?

Mackenna: 18:44

Valentine's day has been, real touch and go for me, um, for sure. I was married. I was, I was with my ex for seven years, were married for four of them. Um, got married, real young. And, my love language is gifts, which I know makes me a jerk.

Kimber: 19:00

What? No

Mackenna: 19:02

That's how you weed out the bad people. If you're dating, you ask people what their love languages. You can just, you know, swipe left on all the gifts, but I am one of them. I love gifts. And. And let me tell you why for all of you who don't like the people who, are I a gift lover. to me, if someone has bought me a gift. it means that I exist when I'm not immediately in front of them because you can't buy gifts for someone in front of them. That's like the

Kimber: 19:25

you have to like, think about it before.

Mackenna: 19:28

And so you have to be out if you're shopping. You're out and you see something that reminds you of that person and you see something that you think would bring them joy. And you're loving them in a moment where they're not right in front of you. And when.

Kimber: 19:49

Right.

Mackenna: 19:50

Family.

Kimber: 19:51

Right. spiritually on a little bit different pages, like

Mackenna: 19:54

yeah. Yeah. It was weird and you know, like young and I was making. Half of what he was making. It was, there was a lot of inequity. Um, I still have so much love and respect for him, but it was, it was.

Kimber: 20:05

Yeah.

Mackenna: 20:06

And that was not his way of showing love. He had so many great ways that he did it. but he hated being forced to buy gifts for specific occasions.

Kimber: 20:14

Uh,

Mackenna: 20:15

And it felt like for me Valentine's day was always just kind of like me pouring out. And not feeling like I was being reciprocated or appreciated. And then, toughest part was. February of 2019, um, probably the worst month of my life. Um, basically over the span of about six weeks, I realized that my marriage was over. I was trying to. find a way in our marriage that I could go home because my dad was really sick and we thought he had about a year left. he had just finished with a chemo. He kind of burned out on that treatment and they wanted him to go home and like gain weight and get healthy. Um, so he could start a new treatment basically. but yeah, he, he was supposed to have more time with us. And so I was trying to find a way in my marriage. And that was probably what I was most guilty of is I always had one foot back in Oregon. Thinking of. The whole time we were in Alaska, he got sick right after we moved here and was going through treatment the whole three years that my marriage and Alaska overlapped. Um, and I never really fully committed to being in Alaska and being in that marriage because I wanted to be home. And every holiday I've read, you know, I was making 40 grand a year. I was spending all of my money flying home. Anytime I had rest or breaks, I was back at home, hanging out with my family. And, um, So that was kind of how the whole conversation started of me wanting to go spend time back home. I wanted to leave. My job, go on a sabbatical and spend whatever time I had left with my dad. And when you start talking about living apart, that's kind of how you end up. Starting a divorce.

Kimber: 21:47

Yeah. It's always hard.

Mackenna: 21:48

And so we had started that conversation and I realized that that was going to be the only way that I was going to get to go home. and then I went home. For basically Valentine's day just to visit him. I had kind of a long weekend. And my principal is really fantastic. He just told me to take some sick days so I could go hang out with my dad. Because I needed to make that decision on like, Is this what I wanna do, um, you know, is. Do I want to proceed with this? I got down there and he died

Kimber: 22:13

Um,

Mackenna: 22:14

And, you know, once you start that conversation, you can't really take it back. And, Um, so it all went from there. We, we filed for dissolution pretty shortly after that. and then not just. Two days after I got back from my bereavement leave. I found out that my job at east was not secure anymore.

Kimber: 22:31

Yeah.

Mackenna: 22:32

And then I was going to have to go to a different high school, but there wasn't good at, they promised me. I be teaching somewhere. they couldn't promise it wasn't middle school, which was. Uh, grease and its own.

Kimber: 22:42

Right.

Mackenna: 22:42

they just said, you know, like, Hey, we're going to find you a job that is six through 12, but we can't tell you where yet. Um, welcome to that journey. So in six weeks I lost my dad. I lost my husband. And I lost my job.

Kimber: 22:54

And do your best your community there?

Mackenna: 22:56

yeah. I mean, and my whole, my whole, community really was his family. And, you know, you always say, oh, you know, like, we're going to stick with you, but. At the end of the day, divorce is tough and his family. At the end. Had to be on his side because it wasn't. It was not a healthy divorce. We were not our best selves. During that process. And for me, I had lost so much so quickly that I just was like grabbing it any mean. Things, I could've, I could've donated clothes. You know, I, I could have made the move easy on myself, but for me, I just, I needed to grab anything I could, because I felt like I had no control over how much I'd lost. Um, it was just, once it started like that weekend that I went home and we lost him, it was just this. Momentous. It's just a snowball. Uh, effect and everything went so fast after that. And I feel like I blinked. And it was after spring break. It was end of March. And suddenly I was living in a condo. I'm trying to sell our giant home in Eagle river that we were supposed to fill with children. Um, we had been fostering for a year and I'd been a mom for a year. And we realized that we couldn't co-parent them. We realized that we couldn't foster individually. And so we had to basically give our children away.

Kimber: 24:07

Um,

Mackenna: 24:08

And, um, Going from married. With children and a mortgage and a really cool job at 26 to divorce with no children and no husband and no dad. And no family in Alaska anymore. Was crazy. But the thing I had the whole time was my life group.

Kimber: 24:25

Yeah.

Mackenna: 24:25

So, and they surrounded me and I felt like none of them could understand what I was going through. So I was really lonely. In that everyone could sympathize, but no one could empathize.

Kimber: 24:35

Yes. That spot is so

Mackenna: 24:37

Yeah. Yeah, cause I mean, you know, I was one of the first to get married and I was one of the first to get divorced. So, I had a lot of people who. You know, they said that they could try to understand, but they just, they weren't getting just what I I'd been through. And it was so hard and my anxiety was out of control. I just felt so. Anytime it wasn't actively in front of my students giving a lesson. I felt like I had no worth.

Kimber: 25:01

Um,

Mackenna: 25:02

And I had nothing I could contribute to a conversation.

Kimber: 25:05

Because you're just trying to like, Stay cohere at

Mackenna: 25:08

in, in that like three months period, Is the person that you were talking about on almost every episode of this podcast, your friend is grieving your friend, it's needy, your friend that is struggling. Your friend, who's making bad choices. I mean, the titles, everything you've done. Could have applied to me.

Kimber: 25:23

You're like. Yup. Yup. Yup.

Mackenna: 25:25

yeah. I was that girl capital T capital G. Um, And

Kimber: 25:29

Hm.

Mackenna: 25:30

you know, I was doing well, but you know, I was also kind of a mess. And when it came time to move, it was not a great situation. And the way that the life group showed up for me with trucks and trailers. And husbands to move things. Um, I mean, it took maybe two hours to get everything from Eagle river. Back to my condo and Anchorage. It was kind of funny because we had rented an Anchorage in a condo association. And I'd really liked it. And I didn't want to go back to Anchorage, but I was trying to be close to where I worked. And I knew I liked that. So I ended up buying a condo.

Kimber: 26:08

The one that you

Mackenna: 26:09

the spot where we had moved to, uh, you know, two years earlier. So it felt like this giant step back, but it was safe. It was home and it felt good. And. Um, I knew it'd be close to work now. Of course, right after I closed on the condo, I found out that I was not going to be. Not going to be working in Anchorage. Yeah, I literally, I got hired at. And deliver high school. The day I close on the condo.

Kimber: 26:30

Right. I remember that like ping pong. Must've been so frustrating. Yeah.

Mackenna: 26:35

feet from Eagle river high school for a year and a half. And driving. Every day, bought a condo next to east and then was going to be driving the Eagle river.

Kimber: 26:43

Yeah. When you, when you look back on that, just like frustrating moments in that season C like that kind of an example of like, seems like it doesn't make sense or just feels like you're banging your head against the wall or like taking a step back. Like you said, like, now that you have the distance, how did you see God working in that? Time, like, what was he doing? Was there anywhere that you saw him like moving things around, moving pieces? Or was it just one of those hard things that, you know, we, we just gotta get through.

Mackenna: 27:12

Well, there was there's two pretty huge things. And one was, We had another person, I think, who was grieving at the time. Um, and they were going through, uh, think it was infertility process. Um, And we had someone who shared what a, a nurse had shared with them during childbirth. And they've talked about the waves of pain. And how. They suck and they're there. They're terrible. Um, but they end in a baby and how great that is. and I just remember thinking, you know, it wasn't about me. I was just kind of on the peripheral, trying to support this conversation. But in the back of my head, I was like, What am I waves of pain for like, I'm going through this terrible, painful process. And why, what is the purpose of my pain? There's purposeful pain in life. And I couldn't figure out what the purpose of my pain was. And I was so deep in it at the time that there was no, the waves were so high. I couldn't see the horizon of of where I could be going. With the purpose of that pain. And, um, just the, the transformation of. going from. I thought that the marriage I was in was as good as it gets. I thought that, you know, I had the house, I had the kids, I had the job. I thought I had everything that I needed to be happy and I was, I really was in that moment. and looking back now, it's like trying to explain math to an ant. I didn't understand how much joy there was ahead of me. And I didn't understand that I could be happier than I was.

Kimber: 28:33

Huh.

Mackenna: 28:35

And I am. It's just, it's incredible to look back at her. And realized that she really did think that was the maximum amount of happiness a person was allowed to have. Um, because it's so much better on the other side. it was so worth it, and that transformation was necessary for me to find the new joy that I have. But at the time there was no seeing that that horizon, the waves were just too high. But the second thing that, that God was doing is he made all of you guys vessels

Kimber: 29:02

Hm. Hm.

Mackenna: 29:03

Like. You guys didn't know how to love me. I was very tough to love. I don't think I was needing. I don't think I was mean, I don't think I was crabby. I don't think I was weepy, but I just was.

Kimber: 29:15

You were in a hard spot. Yeah. I mean, yes.

Mackenna: 29:19

where do you do you come from me about the dead? Tell me, you're sorry about my. Like you asked me if I'm still in touch with my foster kids. Like where do you go with

Kimber: 29:27

And, you know, McKenna, the other thing is, I think you, are a very Frank person, which I love. And yet I think sometimes that makes people intimidated. like, it's like, oh, well she's so like upfront and honest, maybe I need to meet her there. But like, then that feels scary sometimes I think, and it's just learning. what our different friends need and that's such a learning curve, you know? And it's like when you're learning that through like some of their hardest days, Like no, Give ourselves some grace, like no wonder we struggle. With that that's a tall ask, but it's obviously to your story, it's worth it.

Mackenna: 30:06

I don't. know if it was a conscious, like prayer that any of you guys made, or it was just God working behind the scenes. But I like to think that somebody prayed and said, Hey, I don't know how to love on this person. But I know that you do. And let me be a vessel for that. Cause that's a hundred percent what happened. No one really knew how to handle me, but God was flowing through them that whole time. Um, and it, it was a really graceful process when it could have been super clumsy.

Kimber: 30:32

Oh, yeah.

Mackenna: 30:32

So.

Kimber: 30:33

Totally totally. I mean, I, that hearing that testimony is incredible to me because I think so often it feels like we are just bumbling through Like our hard moments with our friends. you know, I think of friends that I'm in relationship with right now who are in some of their hardest days. And it's like, man, so many of my conversations, I feel like I'm just like bumbling through or. And maybe I am, you know, but like, I'm trying and I have to trust that. The Lord takes are. best efforts when you know, they're genuine and they're made out of what we have to give right now. And that he transforms them. Like you're saying into what our friends need, like trusting him to do that I think is, it's such a faithful act because. It takes the pressure off of us to an extent like, yes, there's still room for us to learn and grow. But at the end of the day, we were a member that like, we're not going to get it right. A hundred percent of the time. And in that lack, you know, it's like the, when I'm weak, he's strong kind of idea. that is that's so hopeful. To me. That's amazing.

Mackenna: 31:40

There's There's a certain beauty in the bumbling, but I think that if you are conscious about it and you just, you say to God, like, I don't know how to love this person, so just let your love come through me. They usually works out.

Kimber: 31:53

Oh, man. That's so good. That's so good because Yeah. we can always ask that prayer and I think, yeah, I think the holy spirit will work through us. Oh, that's so cool. Friends, I'm loving this chat with McKenna and I want to take a quick minute to tease it. Something we're going to be talking about coming up. I have a new digital resource coming out today that McKenna gave me the idea for she is one of the most thoughtful people I know. And I think her idea is going to help us all be more intentional friends. So stick around for the end of the show, to hear more about how you can get this new freebie from me today. Alright, back to the show. I love that perspective as like overarching and kind of shining light on a little more specifically what I want to dig in to, with you today. And that is just how can we, especially with Valentine's day coming up, you know, but all year round, like how can we love our friends? Well, who are in these different. relational places than we are. Because like, as I was thinking about this, you know, I'm like, I have people in my life who, are my friends and I love them. But when we're in different relational seasons, it can put stress on. Your friendship, especially if I think you started being friends in one life situation, and then things shifted, which of course they're going to have, that's going to happen over the course of our lives. Like, duh, that's just part of it doesn't even have to be for a bad thing. It could be just like, you didn't have kids when you were friends and then one of you does. And one of you doesn't like that is going to change the relationship dynamic to an extent. And. I would love to hear kind of your perspective on maybe just a few of these today. you know, how can we show some love to our friends who are in a different relation in all spot than us particularly? Like, what can we do that is helpful? What do we need to stop doing? Like, you know, When you were in some of these different, like, just hard spot in your marriage, like, you know, times when your relationships weren't maybe the idyllic Valentine's day. Card situation. what felt like a blessing to you from your friends and what felt less than helpful?

Mackenna: 34:13

Well, because I was so sensitive and anxious and I didn't want to be that girl, even though I was so vividly that girl. Um, it's a fine line between, when you're doing, when you're, when you're making an action. It being with pity or it being. With with. With grace. Um, And it can be so awkward. Cause like when you're trying to pour out on someone, It can be kind of obvious that that is what you're doing and you're trying to do it kind of naturally and like subtly.

Kimber: 34:42

So it doesn't feel like, that. Yeah.

Mackenna: 34:45

Yeah. So it doesn't feel like it's coming from a place of pity where it's no words we're doing this because we're friends, not because you're struggling and there's, you know, you can either try to hide it. And there are some graceful and subtle ways to do that. Or you can just. And be like, Hey, I know you're in this season. what can I do for you? Or this is what I thought we could do, but what do you think? Um, and I think it's just, it depends on the friend. It depends on where they're at in that season. I would say the graceful subtle way is to do things in like bigger groups. So it doesn't feel like you're, you're just seeking them out. So

Kimber: 35:14

Like the third wheel kind of thing. Is that what you're

Mackenna: 35:16

exactly. yeah, Yeah. Gowan. At one times I think is a great way to do it. You know, planning events during that week. We try to make it everybody. So it doesn't feel like you're just doing it for that person.

Kimber: 35:27

Like a pity date with them. Or

Mackenna: 35:29

Yeah. Hey, do you want to get coffee before I go on a date with my husband later? Like, that's tough. but if you are that person's person, if you are their number one person, and they're being upfront about what they're going through, you can be a little bit more obtuse about it. Um, Flowers are great. You can always send someone flowers. Um,

Kimber: 35:48

You would love that

Mackenna: 35:49

it's called. Yeah, I love flowers. I love You giving me something that will slowly die on my desk. It's the greatest. And if you deliver it to me at work in front of all my coworkers and students, I shamelessly prefer that. Like, I don't want subtle flowers. Leper my porch. I want the flower shop lady walking in

Kimber: 36:06

I want everyone to know I've loved.

Mackenna: 36:09

Exactly. I. I need people to know that I. loved and lovable. I mean, that's just. Part of life. Um, Yeah. So flowers, aren't terrible. Um, You could just give him a Valentine, just send him a card. It's okay. You know, and maybe send them to everybody. So it doesn't feel like you're singling them out. I mean, it's never bad to send cards to all your people.

Kimber: 36:29

That's so true. I love getting cards in the mail and that's something that I have a few. I have a couple of friends who are really good at that. And it always blesses me so much and I don't usually think of it, but it always blesses me. So that is a great one. I love that.

Mackenna: 36:42

I'm a little bit macabre. So like my dream. Galentine's would be doing like a hunter killer puzzle with

Kimber: 36:49

I don't think killer. Oh my God. I love that idea. Have you ever put one of those parties on.

Mackenna: 36:55

well, I actually went to one at Christmas. I went to one at Christmas and I was the victim, which just felt so on the nose.

Kimber: 37:03

You're like, okay.

Mackenna: 37:05

I got, murdered halfway through. the host told me to go into the bathroom and put on this sign that said murdered. And they said there's a halo in there for you. So people know that you're dead. As I put the halo on my head. And then we're like reading through the mystery. And as it turns out, that was actually a Garland that I'd been strangled with and it was supposed to be around my neck.

Kimber: 37:24

You're like, okay.

Mackenna: 37:26

I'm in this room full of people thinking that I'm an angel would really. And wearing the murder weapon on the wrong spot at my body.

Kimber: 37:32

my goodness. So this is a hot tip, do a murder mystery party, but don't make person in a hard spot. Don't make them. The

Mackenna: 37:40

Don't make them the victim. Yeah. So, I mean like sometimes turning away from the love of it and making it more of like a dark event is okay. Like maybe get together, watch, Dateline, eat popcorn. Um, if they have kids and they're divorced, it might be fun to just like send pizza to their house or get them a gift card for like, you know, the trampoline place. Um, you know, like you don't need to take them out. You don't need to ignore your own Valentine's day and take them on a date. But, you know, you could give them the gift of time together with their kids or time together with their family. Or, you know, just buy him a book to read maybe a bath bomb. It doesn't have to be anything big. And I think that 95% of people in a hard place would be. embarrassed or offended if you rearranged your Valentine's plans or lied about your Valentines plans. Or tried to pretend that your husband also sucks.

Kimber: 38:33

Yeah. Ooh, that's a big one because. Man. I, okay. So two things there. I love the emphasis. It seems like you're putting on, like, don't try to replicate or like somehow give them a cheap version of. Valentine's day. Like that's not the point. The point is how can you show your friend that you value their friendship? Like you're not replacing. What, a couple going out on Valentine's day has like, you can't do that. That would be silly to try it. I think that's maybe where it starts to feel too, like, okay. Like weird,

Mackenna: 39:10

That would embarrass me. That would make me feel. Now don't make me feel like a burden. And I feel like when you're in the situation I was in where you'd lost all those things. The last thing you want to be as a burden.

Kimber: 39:21

Right because You

Mackenna: 39:21

Um,

Kimber: 39:22

that way. You

Mackenna: 39:23

Yeah. And I feel like, especially if you know your friend, you know, that they're an Enneagram two or a nine. The greatest gift you can give is helping them feel useful and

Kimber: 39:32

Hm.

Mackenna: 39:33

you. So, you know, like if you are like, Hey, can I help you with anything? And they're like, no, but like, I'm running errands. Do you need anything? Let them do that.

Kimber: 39:40

Yeah, because they

Mackenna: 39:41

back on you. Yeah, especially for me. Cause you know, I had a husband and kids that I was cooking dinner for every night. And then it was me and microwave pizza and just. The times that I got to put out love on people and still now, I mean, even four years on, I love to cook for people. And I love to host people because I don't have people that I have to take care of every day. Um, Yeah. So, I mean, if you know your friend, you know, that they're helper. Sometimes just letting them do something for you.

Kimber: 40:08

Yeah. I think that's so that's one of the reasons I think it's so important to, know our friends and to even ask them like, you know, I think that's the biggest thing is like, we tend to love our friends in the way that we want to receive love. Like that's just the tendency. That's what we know. That's what, how we identify love and what it looks like in our head. And that can sometimes be great. But I think asking them. It's such like a great thing that we can do, because then we have the opportunity to one show that we remember what they said, which that's that's at least makes me feel really loved when someone remembers something like that. And to it just is going to help us tailor what we do in these hard moments. Like, you know, it's going to help, you know, like, well for, you know, my friend here, let me think about how I really know her and not think about so much. Like what should I do, but what would make my friend feel loved in this week? That might be a little bit hard for her otherwise, or that she might be feeling a little bit lost or left out. And that is going to be, I think, where we find. The most authentic ways. We can love our friends in these hard times because it's going to be different for everyone.

Mackenna: 41:14

Yeah. And, you know, during my process, People tried to love on me and all sorts of different ways. And some of them really were. very misguided and loving attempt. Um, I had some friends who, uh, We went on a cruise together and it was so fun. It was a girls' weekend. They didn't, advertise it to me as like a divorce party. They just, Hey, let's get together. you know, like they were planning on having ease soon. So it was kind of like, let's get together and like, go on cruise. This was. Man things that did not age well, this was 2019. This was pre COVID.

Kimber: 41:45

Well, Hey, you got it. You did it before. It was not kosher anymore.

Mackenna: 41:48

Yeah, exactly. I think they're coming back. You know, I live in Alaska. After support's a cruise industry. But, it was supposed to be just, you know, like a girl's weekend catch up. Let's. Let's. go crazy before they have children and then we have to hold them on vacations from here on out. And when I got there, they had decorated the, the state room with all these like finally free posters and, you know, single and ready to mingle. And I would not have described myself as finally free or single and ready to mingle. I hadn't talked about the process. Like. You know, everyone knew that my dad had died and like, I was kind of that girl for awhile. And I just, wasn't talking about my divorce on social media and they wanted to, you know, like really have this like burn down the world man-hating weekend for me. And that's just not where I was at. I could feel that love, but I was overwhelmed with, I don't feel finally free. I feel adrift and like I've lost everything. That's not freedom, you know? Um, But I

Kimber: 42:44

And then that's hard, right? You can like respect what their gesture was, but it still is hard for you in that moment.

Mackenna: 42:50

Yeah. And there are still incredible friends. Like it didn't change anything. I just was like, I love this guys, but like, let's go get a daiquiri up on the top deck. Cause I'm not ready to handle. Um, And it was, it was, it was great, but I mean, a lot of our society likes to think that like divorce party is, That you're free of something. And that's just not always the case for

Kimber: 43:08

Yeah. I think it's, that's such a good reminder to like ask our people, like, where are you at here? I mean, because like, I think it's man, it can feel intimidating. To broach those hard topics, I think with our people Like I get that. I feel that, um, but that's where having the hard conversations it becomes essential because that's just part of loving our friends. Well is not. I don't know, skating around those hard things in their lives, but it's like asking the awkward questions and saying like, Hey. you know, where's your heart at right now? Like what an even earlier this summer on the podcast. Megan gave me such a helpful question. She was like, just ask, you know, asking your friends, like, what does it look like for me to go be a good friend to you right now? And I've just remembered that because it's like, how do we ask? Well, that's how he asked, you know, what does it look like for me to love you? Well, this week, or, you know, how can I be a good friend to you right now in this hard season? And I think we have to ask, cause otherwise we're probably going to miss it. We're going to get it wrong because it's just, people are complex and our hearts are. Are messy. That's just a fact.

Mackenna: 44:16

It's not a bad thing to be direct when someone is struggling. Um, And I think like the two questions that someone should have asked me at the very beginning was, are you in counseling?

Kimber: 44:25

Uh,

Mackenna: 44:26

And ask them, like, you know, do you, feel like that's something you might want to do? And if they say, yeah, I'm in counseling asking them how it's going is not a bad thing. Hey, did you have a session this week? Like, you know, do you feel like you're getting what you need from it do you have the right counselor? do you want to talk about what you guys are focusing on? Giving them kind of a secondary outlet for the process they're in is great. And if they're not in counseling and. I'm not interested in counseling. Telling them that you can be the person that they talk through because a lot of times, acceptance of transitions. Comes through talking. Um, And you can ask them then follow up question. When they're coming to you, are you here to vent? Are you here to problem-solve? Do I need to listen? Or do I need to give you solutions? Because so many of us, when we're listening, especially the moms and the teacher hearts.

Kimber: 45:13

Yeah.

Mackenna: 45:13

already thinking of solutions. And that person is not in the solution. All they need to do is just get all the poison and all the struggle out. And then maybe later on, they'll be ready for solutions. So assay, not up at the top. Am I here to listen or am I here to fix. What can I do for you? Is huge. Is huge. And then, you know, silent for a real quick before they unload God, please let me be a vessel. Oh, God, let me listen. Well, let me. Well, it's okay to like, excuse yourself from the conversation for 15 seconds, do a quick prayer. If it means that the rest of the conversation is going to be. Powerful or even if you are in that place, Hey, I really want to talk to you about this. Can we pray real quick? And then you can unload on me. Like let's pray together.

Kimber: 45:54

Wow. I love that. That is, and that is man being conscious of that is. That's hard, but I love that idea because. Man, if not only would it help me in that moment as the listener. But I wonder if it would help their perspective too, you know, as they're coming to that and just inviting the Lord into that conversation. Hmm. That's really good. That's

Mackenna: 46:16

I think though. I think the last and very most important thing. In this whole discussion though, is you need to accept that you might not be the friend for them right now.

Kimber: 46:27

Uh, yeah.

Mackenna: 46:28

If you are in a committed marriage, you're in a committed relationship. You don't have the empathy. It's very possible. That they need to have people who are in their season. Um, and it's, it's, okay to recognize, like, I can be here for you now. But if you feel like you need to transition. Towards people who are in your stage of life.

Kimber: 46:47

Giving them

Mackenna: 46:47

that graceful. Yeah. Don't feel bad that you aren't the person for them. Pray with them that they can find that community or pray. Away from them, for them that they're finding that community, because that was probably the biggest part for me is recognizing that my friends were in vastly different seasons because when I started with. that life group, it was all married with no children. And over those four years, it was

Kimber: 47:12

That's

Mackenna: 47:12

lot of kids. A lot. I mean, the whole, the whole ethos of the, of the group just completely shifted. and it was so great, but that was honestly the time where I started to feel that loneliness again, that loneliness. In a crowded room. Full of love, but. Uh, I just wasn't in that season. And,

Kimber: 47:30

We need people in our season. Yeah.

Mackenna: 47:32

Yeah, We need people out of our season, but we also need people in our season. And if, if, if they have those people, it's okay to take a step back and let those people love on them and ask those questions. Like, are you in counseling? How is that going? If you're not in counseling, let's talk. It's okay to accept. You might not be the person for them and you can still be there for them. You can still reach out to them. You can still pray for them. But it's okay. Sometimes to take a step back and not be offended that you guys no longer have. Uh, nothing common. That you guys are in each other's day-to-day constantly.

Kimber: 48:03

And when we can do that well, because that man, I think when that goes wrong is when our friendships are all about us and like affirming me. Yes. And when I am, you know, in that kind of a situation, And if it's it's time for someone to, for me to kind of let them go in whatever way I can handle that. One of two ways I can feel like I'm losing them. And if I lose them, then that means I'm not a good friend, or it means that, you know, I'm failing or, or whatever it says about me. I can focus on that or I can say, like, you're saying, you know, acknowledge that maybe I'm not the person they need right now. And that doesn't mean we stopped being friends, but it means that I release them to, you know, have someone else be their person in that season. And I love that reminder because. It's just such a good reminder that our friendships are not about us. they're about how can we love the other people and how can we glorify God? And I think that that action when that's like the right move for them, I think that does both of those, both of those things. So, man, that's so good.

Mackenna: 49:06

There was one thing I loved, alleys purple heart.

Kimber: 49:09

Yes.

Mackenna: 49:10

What a gorgeous idea.

Kimber: 49:11

Such a good idea. Friends, if you haven't listened to the episode about just sharing your pain, Allie bear. Um, she talked about this idea that McKenna's mentioning. Sending a purple heart to a friend when you're struggling. And it's just like the code between you, like in, um, like a text purple heart. It's just like this code of like, I need your prayers. I'm having a hard time. yeah. I love that. How did

Mackenna: 49:33

Yeah.

Kimber: 49:34

you?

Mackenna: 49:34

I just, love it. And from someone who went through that a lot, A lot of times I would get texts from people who would, Hey, I'm thinking of you, how are you doing? What can I do for you this week? And I didn't have the capacity or bandwidth to do that. And I felt rude, not responding to them. And it almost was putting an extra burden. On me, which sounds really selfish, but, um, it was just sometimes. it was too much. Sometimes it was too much. And so I love the idea of sending a purple heart. To let someone know that you're thinking of them and praying for them and they don't have to respond to it. It's just there. And I think a cool addition would be letting someone know, Hey, will you send me? sorry. So she, she sends a purple heart asking for prayer.

Kimber: 50:14

The idea is I remember it was like she would send a purple heart. to this friend and they knew that it meant like I'm having a hard day. I need your prayers, but I don't want to talk about it. Or like, I'm not ready to talk about it. Yeah.

Mackenna: 50:27

I think the coolest way to modify that would be. Send a Greenheart when you need that or when, when you're thinking of them. Like if they didn't ask for it, but you want them to. Praying for them. And you don't need them to respond to some of my Greenheart. Hey, I'm thinking of you praying for you. That's it don't respond. Um, I think that would be something that I would have liked.

Kimber: 50:45

Yeah. like a

Mackenna: 50:46

Yeah, just. I'm with you, but you don't have to acknowledge it. I just want you to know that someone is thinking of you when you're not around which you know, GIF lover.

Kimber: 50:54

Ah, that's so cool. I think that that is that's so good. And so here's my challenge, friends listening. I want you to text someone. This week, if you're like, yes, I want that. The thing is you got to tell someone that, right? Like if you wish that someone would, you had that relationship with someone where you could, Send these purple and green hearts back and forth, and you knew what they meant and you want that. Then tell someone that's what you want to be a thing between you. And so, I hope that you'll do that with someone this week. Someone you trust, someone that, you know, would, do that back and forth for you and man that. You know, we're talking about loneliness in the series, like that is such a powerful way to combat this because it, takes the burden of explaining and always being ready to process and have a deep conversation. And yet it connects you with that person. In a way that you don't have to always be ready to go there and you can still feel that connection when you're feeling those, lonely and hard moments. So yeah, such a good reminder and great application for our conversation here. That's good.

Mackenna: 51:55

And I think one more thing you could do. It's just plan ahead for pain as know that if you have a group of friends, whether it's work friends or a life group or a Bible study, just know that there will be hard times ahead. Um, I really liked to put people's information in there. Contact. On my phone. Um, when I meet someone because I have a hard time remembering all that. but I like to, you know, like, if I know that they have an anniversary of a death, I usually will kind of put that in there somewhere. Always put their birthday, but having an anniversary of their death in there. So I can kind of like, Hey, I'm thinking of you today. I know it's I know it's been a. I know. Today's the day. Um, You know, I'm here for you. putting in what, you know, they like putting in their coffee order. Um, Yeah, I think milk and dark chocolate is extremely polarizing. So knowing if they're a milk chocolate girl or a dark chocolate girl was important.

Kimber: 52:42

That is an excellent point. Yes. And

Mackenna: 52:45

take data on your friends,

Kimber: 52:47

yes, it's see. I don't think it's weird. You know, it's funny, like my friend, Megan. that I mentioned a little bit ago on her episode, she said she does a similar thing. So he has like a note for most of her closer friends. That she just writes down things like, like important dates or like favorites or their coffee order or something. And I love your suggestion of putting it in the contacts, because that is like in the notes for them or somewhere in there. Like where you have their address or whatever, because that is something that stays in your phone, you know how to find it, and it's always going to be there. And so you shared this idea with me And you were like, this could be a good freebie. And I was like, oh my goodness. Yes. That is such a good idea. And so, um, I think I'm gonna work up some, just like a quick questionnaire or something that maybe we could next time you're with your friends, get together. Maybe at like the gallon tines day, like you're suggesting McKenna. getting together and just talking about these things and kind of going around and sharing and then take it home, put it in your phone when you have a chance. And, um, you'll have some of these ideas stored. So that when your friends are in those hard moments, or like you're saying, like planning for pain, I love that. you're ready. You're ready to love them. Well, So good. Transcribing... Sisters. I'm so glad you could join McKenna and I this week on the, your sister Kimber podcast. If you're feeling this tension in your relationships, that your friend is just in a different relational season than you. I hope you'll take time this week to do two things. One, ask her how you can be a good friend to her right now, even though you're in different seasons and to brainstorm. Trying to think of one way to make sure she knows you matter to her, even if your lives don't perfectly gel right now. And make it happen. I'm cheering you on friend. Keep loving your people. Well, And if you need some help doing that, my new resource is for you. I've made up a little worksheet for you to do with your friends. Next time you get together, it's got questions that might seem basic or silly at first, but here's the power in it. Put the answers in your contacts, like in your phone under that friend's name, put all the details in your notes. There. having this content on hand is going to be so helpful in just enabling you to act with intentionality in this coming year. So head to my website, your sister, kimber.com and find the resources tab and download this new free resource today. And while you're there, go ahead and subscribe. So you get my weekly newsletter straight to your inbox, comes out every Tuesday, complete with some helpful resources tips to help you grow your friendships. Plus a preview of what will be featured on the blog and podcasts that week. So be sure to subscribe on my website. Which is linked in the description of this episode. Friends. Thank you so much for being part of this community until next time. It's your sister. Kimber.