Ep.43 Can Loneliness Be Good? + Susie Edwards

Wait a second...isn't loneliness something I should be avoiding? Kimber talks with mental health counselor and friend Susie Edwards about how we can shift our understanding of loneliness from something to ignore or avoid, to a kind of "check-engine" light. When we start viewing loneliness as an indicator of a need in our lives, we can begin bravely moving toward those things. 

Susie shares about her journey through lonely seasons and how healing from childhood loneliness wounds helped her grow from being someone who feared female friendships to truly treasuring them.

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Transcript

Kimber: 0:09

Hey there friends. Welcome to the, your sister Kimber podcast. My name is Kimber Gilbert, and I'm so glad you're here. We all know that the idea of friendship should be something desirable, but what happens when that's not the reality? When friendship feels scary. The last thing that we're going to want to do is dive right in boldly. When we can appreciate what friendship has to offer. That's one thing. But what about when friendships feel like they might not turn out to be safe? My friend, Susie Edwards, and I are digging into this today, and I hope our conversation helps you begin to see how your own younger years of friendship might be impacting how you handle your loneliness today. I could talk to Susie all day and I hope it helps you grow authentic friendships in your own life that honor God and draw closer to Jesus. I wish we could talk this out over coffee, but this is the next best thing. I'm so glad you're here, friend. Let's get started. Susie Hallel. How are you doing?

Susie: 1:11

And dealing with.

Kimber: 1:12

Oh, good. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast today. I'm so thankful. You're willing to talk to me today. I'm

Susie: 1:18

Yeah. I'm excited for our time together as well.

Kimber: 1:20

What do you just go ahead and introduce yourself to our friends listening? Who may not know yet?

Susie: 1:25

Yeah. So my name is Susie Edwards. Um, Lived in Alaska since 2003. Except for two years. And yeah. I'm close to 50 mama for most of them. Young adults now.

Kimber: 1:40

Yeah, they're leaving the house quickly. Yes. Does it, is it like a relief or is it sad for you or both?

Susie: 1:47

Probably both. Yeah. Yeah. My last one just turned 18. It's her senior year. So we're. We're right at the doorway of empty nest. Yup.

Kimber: 1:57

absolutely. Ah, that's so exciting. That's really cool. You know, Susie, I just learned when we were talking the other day, I asked you if you would come on the podcast and share with us because. I have long respected your voices. One of wisdom, in the circles that I've been around. And so I was asking you if you would come on and talk with us about loneliness and you told me, I didn't know this, but you're a counselor. And so I'm excited to hear both your like, personal perspective on this and also, how your job plays into Those kinds of conversations as well, but I'm interested to notice a little background on that. Like how long have you been a counselor? Is it like something, have you enjoyed it? what's like kind of your story with that.

Susie: 2:37

Yeah. So I have, Then a mental health counselor for about three and a half years now. Um, I was a stay home mom before that. Um, Yeah. I was military wife for awhile, and then we settled up here and stay home mom. So kinda did a later life career. And. But I had been working a lot in lay work, doing very, very similar things. Um, Before. I actually went back and got. My degree and, and all of that. So. been. a wild couple of years to be in that profession because I started in 19 and we rolled into 2020.

Kimber: 3:13

Yeah, we all needed. We all needed help.

Susie: 3:16

Yeah.

Kimber: 3:16

that. What would you say is like your favorite part of it? What have you most enjoyed?

Susie: 3:21

what I love about counseling is it's just, it's an honor. To get to be invited into other people's stories. And into their journeys and such an intimate way. I just feel like that's an honor. Um, I would almost even use the word sacred, like it's a sacred space. And so that feels like such an honor. That I get to do regularly. You have the jury people, as long as they want me to journey with them. And I don't know, that just feels like a gift and a privilege.

Kimber: 3:51

That's really cool. You know, actually I just went to counseling for the very first time this last week, which was a big step for me, mostly because not because I had been like, opposed to the idea of going to counseling for me, it was like figuring out the logistics and like actually making it happen, like making the phone calls and filling out the paperwork and blah, blah, blah, like. I feel like there's a lot of steps and it was always just easier to like, kind of put it off, uh, but it was really good and I, I really appreciated my time there. And. as I was like dumping all of my junk at this kind woman's feet, I was like, I don't know, this must be like such a challenging job. Like it seems to me like it would be really. just challenging to like hear people's hardest stuff, all the time. And so, I was just really like thankful for her. And, um, for, you know, those of you there in that field, like, do you find that to be challenging or how do you kind of manage that for yourself?

Susie: 4:46

Yeah. I've definitely had that question more than once. Um, And sadly sometimes from like my own children or friends, because I'll get to the end of a nine hour day. You know, And then they'll have something hard. Call me with something hard. To be like, you've been doing this all day. Yeah. I was thinking to some of my kids. You've been doing this all day, mom. Sorry to, you know, but for me, It's barely draining in that way. It's. Those deep waters to. Really beautiful. So I don't struggle very much with the emotional fatigue of it. the part that I sometimes struggle with is what I would call a mental fatigue, and that just probably comes from focused listening. For eight. To nine hours. Um, so I'm the. That that would be kind of like the hardest part of counseling. Coming to me is that sometimes I'm driving home and then I walk into the house and. You

Kimber: 5:38

brain's done. Yeah.

Susie: 5:40

Yeah. And. You know, I, you know, my husband, my daughter, like. What are, you know, they're full of life and want to talk about their days and. Um, and. so that I've heard from longer-term counselors that you, you gain that endurance and over time, not as much. but for me, it's my, it's more of that. Um, the years have kind of taught me even before, as a counselor to walk with people on their journey, but it's not mine to carry their story. Very their story. I walk with them. so I'm grateful for that.

Kimber: 6:10

That's really cool. That's so I think it's such a good, it sounds like such a gift, but also something that you're like learning to steward even better. But, uh, yeah, it sounds like, sounds like you found a wonderful fit. Well, I'm excited that we get to talk to you today. Like I said, from that perspective also, just from your personal perspective, you know, but when I was talking to you about like, kind of this pitch, which I've talked to some other people too, and I've. Shared that I just feel like it's kind of a hard pitch, like, you know, tell me about your, your loneliness. Like that's, that's a big ask. And so one, thank you for being willing to share with us today. But, when I was talking with you, when I learned you were a counselor, you just talked a bit about how like their professional training that you've had for that job. It kind of gave you some insight about how loneliness or why it is. Uh, part of all of our lives. And so I'd be interested to hear a little bit more about that. I think, did you call it like a core emotion?

Susie: 7:06

Yeah.

Kimber: 7:07

like that. Yeah. So can you tell us a little bit about that and how do you think that plays into the fact that like we're all going to experience loneliness at some point in our lives?

Susie: 7:16

Yes. I would love to. Yeah. I had to bring, when you walked up and asked me. Um, you know, about, would you like to do a podcast at loneliness? Cause right. Yeah. Like. You're Like. wow, that's a vulnerable ass. Right. But I, my heart, my face probably did too. I just grins

Kimber: 7:30

Oh,

Susie: 7:31

our practice. We use various approaches that are our name approach is a very emotionally in tuned focused tech. Approach. Uh, therapy. And so, that's like at the core of what I do every day is, focusing on, people's emotions. And so. So lonely. Is one, I called it a core emotion. Yeah. Cause we consider at our practice and you know, different there's different models around this, but. That there's eight core emotions. And so some of us saw the movie inside out and they kind of put four in that movie

Kimber: 8:10

is so good.

Susie: 8:11

yes, it comes up. It comes up in our sessions sometimes,

Kimber: 8:15

bet.

Susie: 8:16

yeah, but there's, you know, we consider, um, the Thursday it's. Uh, core emotions and loneliness is one of those eight core emotions. And I would say It's actually probably in a way to me, one of the most central ones to, um, To be able to journey. And heal. Um, and our own stories. So We at. In our model, we just kind of think of the emotions just like I years ago, taught. Taught classes on this, on it, like emotionally. Healthy spirituality and emotions. And in that people you would list on like a whiteboard. I just say, throw me some emotions and you very quickly can have like a hundred words for emotions upon the board. and so what's really beautiful about this is just like colors and art. There's primary colors, right. And art, and, you know, I just think of kids with Crohn's, you know, there's the box. The smaller box, the bigger box and the huge box. Right. and so these eight emotions are, I think like at the roots or core of almost any emotional, other words we might say.

Kimber: 9:19

Yes.

Susie: 9:20

How, um, within those, we, we look at fear, anger. Hurt sad. Lonely. Shame. Guilt and glad.

Kimber: 9:32

Wow. There's only one pot, like, well, That's probably an interesting thing. Only one of those sounds positive to me. Which is so telling. Yeah.

Susie: 9:44

Yes, that comment is almost always said. That exact Thomas and. That is kind of where we begin because it's shifting peoples. Uh, relationship with their own emotions. Cause we actually consider all of those good emotions

Kimber: 10:00

Interesting.

Susie: 10:01

All of those emotions. Light up in our hearts for a reason. To let us know. to guide us like to lead us, basically, they aluminate, they light up and aluminate to lead us to a need that's underneath each one of those emotions.

Kimber: 10:16

Yeah.

Susie: 10:16

to be aware of the need, we need the emotion to guide us to the need. Which takes me back to loneliness. So. Loneliness illuminates on the human heart. Too. Make us aware of our need for connection.

Kimber: 10:33

Yeah.

Susie: 10:33

Our deep desire for connection. And I believe that that one is like, Almost. At the core of the core of those emotions, because when you look at Genesis. Genesis two 18. Um, this is before the fall. So before it. I mentioned spear and shame coming in. before the fall, God says to man, it is not good for man to be alone. And God is with that now. So that now.

Kimber: 11:01

Right.

Susie: 11:02

Before the fall. And he says it's not good to be alone. And so I really believe that God created us in the likeness of the Trinity. And so in that imprint in us, Is a deep imprint. For not just connectedness with God. But for connectedness with others. So I believe that that. Is the core in the side of us. It's there for a reason. It's because we're created for connection.

Kimber: 11:27

Yes. And it, it forces us to pursue that. Yeah. Um, That's really beautiful. I love that perspective because it's so easy for me to like, when I feel things that are hard, of course, it's like, okay, I want to eliminate that. and I think with loneliness, that is definitely like, our instinct is like, I don't want to feel loneliness, so what can I do? To fix it. And, I, I love that perspective of it being like, you know, it can drive us to something. So actually it's like an essential, it's like the, you know, like the hurt response in just like our fingers. Like you touch a stove and like you want to stop touching the stove. Like. You know, and, and yeah, it drives us towards people. I think that's, that's so cool. I would love for you to share with us a little bit about, what this has looked like in your life as well. Like, as you're walking with people, you, you see this play out in a million ways and. I would love if you're willing to share with us a little bit about like where loneliness has, has come up in your life and how you've walked through that. Especially like almost in hindsight, seeing like, okay, this was not a terrible thing. It like drove me to good things. yeah. What does that look like for you?

Susie: 12:44

Yeah, so loneliness for me. You know, as I've spent time healing, like you mentioned, going to counseling, About 15 years ago. I hit a place in my life and my marriage, my family. Um, where. Really needed. I can't kind of came, I'd say it kind of came to the end of myself. And all the ways that I, tried to fill. Those spaces inside me that felt empty and fall on us. Started. Basically like collapsing around me. Um, and I found myself, this is my mid thirties. I found myself. At one point. Literally laying on my bed. And the fetal position. Feeling like. Everything was breaking apart. and. Asking God, you know, to draw near to that space. And I felt God's cousins come in and it sounds funny to say this God. But almost like spoon me.

Kimber: 13:43

Uh,

Susie: 13:44

Right. Like in that fetal position in my

Kimber: 13:46

wrap around. Yeah.

Susie: 13:49

And that was it really Pivotal time in my life to finally. Starts, like I had finally gotten to the gift of desperation. To really start looking at the ways that I had Constructed things to try to sell. The lack within me. Um, and so then we really pursued my own journey of healing through. Counseling and, Mentorship and. Friendship. And really being on a journey of. Healing. Um, The fragmented pieces of my own story.

Kimber: 14:23

yeah, obviously I love that image of like the wraparound. It makes me think of, um, In, I think it's called the passion translation. It's like a loose paraphrase of some of the scriptures that have come out. Uh, semi-recently and, anytime that, like in the Psalms, maybe we hear it ha it kind of describes God as like, with wings, like wings that wrap around, or like covering of your wings, that kind of language, it translates it as like God's wrap-around presence. Which I love just like that. All encompassing, like, you know, behind, before all around. just coming around you in those moments. I think it's such a powerful image that, and I mean, that's like what's coming up there is just, that is that loneliness and. Letting God meet us there first is something that I've been really trying to grow in because I feel like my instinct is to like reach out to people or try to change my circumstances. you know, try to solve the problem myself, which I think those are not always terrible, you know, things to do. Obviously. I think many of them are good, but it's like allowing him to meet. My need for that first is such like a learning experience for me. Is that something that you have struggled with or grown in or is that something that comes more naturally for you? Like going to God with your loneliness first, do you think.

Susie: 15:45

Oh, that has for sure. Grown. Yes. I came up with this funny little jingle for myself years ago. To run to the throne instead of the phone.

Kimber: 15:56

Oh, that's good. I'm going to remember that. That's good.

Susie: 16:00

I think it's that. I absolutely think. Action is important. So we need to reach out and. Phone into our people, but, um, definitely. Learning more and more to, Lehman to the arms of the great I am, you know, the creator and sustainer. Um, sorry. So, yeah. I've definitely grown in that.

Kimber: 16:19

I love that run to the throat instead of the phone. That's good.

Susie: 16:23

Yeah.

Kimber: 16:23

You know, as I was talking to you also about coming on the podcast, one thing that you brought up as significant to. Loneliness in your life that I really resonated. Like that made sense to me was you were like, oh, I don't know where this all started. Like, you know, you talk about your moment of kind of where you had that gift of desperation. You said, I like that. But it's like, this is all come from somewhere, right? Like, it's not like we wake up in. Our twenties or thirties or forties whenever this happens, which I think of those moments. Um, any time throughout there and, uh, repeatedly even. But when we reached those moments where we're like, this is not working or, you know, I need something here. It didn't just like, Appear like this is built up from something and you were talking a little bit about how. Often our experience with loneliness. It isn't just an isolated event. Like these things are all linked together and, you know, come from lots of different experiences in our life, which can often. Date back really far into our past. And, so I mean, in your life, what does this look like? Like how do you think our past loneliness can impact how we. Experienced loneliness as adults, like as we're, you know, maybe looking at, Hey, I need to like, do some counseling. Maybe you're like, I need to work on some healing here. Talk to the Lord about it. Like whatever combo that looks like. Where do you think we go to, like, do we start somewhere? What has this looked like in your life? Kind of going back to your past and reflecting here.

Susie: 17:58

Yeah, that. Comes back, to something. you know, I've done this, of course in my own journey, but when I. Working with clients in the area of loneliness. It's helping them to see that we have loneliness. There's loneliness. There's three ways we can experience loneliness, loneliness. For cells. For God and for others. And. I big gap in that usually. And you kind of spoke with that a little bit is where we run to others to like fill the loneliness. Is that. I find a lot of people and I went on this healing journey myself, is that. It's trying to fill those wounded fragmented parts on the inside somehow on the outside. So if I marry the right man, If I have children. Aye. You know, fill in the blank. Um, Then.

Kimber: 18:51

Find the perfect best friend or yeah. Yeah.

Susie: 18:54

perfect job that I love that then. And I won't feel this ache inside. And so for me, My healing journey was coming home to myself. I often call it to me. Home to my own heart

Kimber: 19:11

Hmm.

Susie: 19:12

I needed to go back. And be able to look at and tell the truth about. The wounded parts of myself and my own story. And so that hearing. You know, it's kinda like if you cover over. He fall. The bike for over a wound too quickly without cleaning it out, you could have gravel.

Kimber: 19:35

Yeah. Infection.

Susie: 19:38

Yes. And so it was going back and realizing kind of like you said, um, My reactions, my defenses, my coping mechanisms around loneliness. Has been there for a while and they're there for a reason. So. part of my journey. I was going back and looking and something that was very formative. Disconnection. that created loneliness for me. Um, or swelled loneliness made it larger. Was. I grew up. Very, um, My mom came from a very hard background. Um, her. Parents and. Family lineage for refugees. And so she, she kind of grew up in a scarcity mindset. And a lot of poverty and. That's a whole nother, we. Nerd out on the counseling stuff. And that X that we do believe that some of that stress can be passed down for generations, but also. my mom went through a major trauma right before I was born. my brother who's 18 months older, almost died of spinal meningitis.

Kimber: 20:40

Hm.

Susie: 20:41

He was hospitalized on life support. Uh, basically the week before I was born. And. So my mother, I was literally born. I was based in her anxiety, anxiety, and. For a world of anxiety. And so. The first four years of my life, I would really only let my mother hold me or carry me. I didn't talk till I was four. Um, I was very attached to her. And so. Eventually it went to kindergarten, had the sweetest kindergarten teacher, lovely woman, and started to be a little less shy. Uh, start to have friends enjoy playing on the playground. Good things. first and second grade, I moved schools had a new. Best friend. Uh, she's kind of the color. The queen bee of the playground. Um, she would be always the one out there saying what we were playing that day. And, so it would be the queen bee and I was just happy to get to be a part. So I would do, I would be, I play whatever role she wanted me to play. The beginning of my third grade year. So I've been friends with her two years rolling into a third year, sometime at the beginning of that year. I was tired of. Pene boss and told what to do. And so I just remember one day on the playground telling her, no, I don't want to play that. I don't want to do that.

Kimber: 22:01

Yeah.

Susie: 22:02

She said, well, you'll do that and you'll play what I want to play. Or I'll make sure that no one plays with you.

Kimber: 22:09

Oh, gosh. Cool. Oh,

Susie: 22:13

Sadly. You would hope that one third grade little girl wouldn't have that kind of power, but.

Kimber: 22:19

Oh, but they do. Yeah.

Susie: 22:21

And She did. And so

Kimber: 22:23

Hm.

Susie: 22:24

Talk to the other kids. And I remember them all on this A-frame play thing. Kind of mocking me and the other kids honestly looked more afraid standing behind her, but. that rolled into a year of, me having lots of stomach aches, being scared and not wanting to go out on recess and, you know, my parents being like, you know, what's shifted and little Suzy. I had a sweet teacher, so the teacher started letting me just stay in at recess and be like a teacher's helper. Um, so I would just not go to recess. I would stay inside. Um, and all that sounds well and good. But no one was really dealing with the problem.

Kimber: 23:03

Right. Right. The actual thing that was going on. Yeah.

Susie: 23:07

And so. a year. That young in life. Of not having any friends and being alone. Really changes. Mentally.

Kimber: 23:18

Yeah.

Susie: 23:19

Your peers and how you see yourself. And so that year, um, I remember really, I think it really started. It marred. I think of as being fearfully and wonderfully made is like, Susie as this beautiful mosaic created by God for his light to shine through. And that year it's like mud got smeared over that mosaic. And I started wondering. What is wrong with me? You know, is there something defective with me? That other kids don't want to play with me

Kimber: 23:50

Right.

Susie: 23:50

that. My fault that I'm so lonely, what's wrong with me. so it also put that in me that like, Feeling of toxic shame inside of me that there was some. I've been wrong with me, but then also on the outside of me, it created a fear of my peers and like a hypervigilance. you know, after that,

Kimber: 24:09

Because it wasn't just a random, like, girl, this was someone that you had called friend. Right. Like, even though it sounds like maybe she wasn't a great friend, but for you. You didn't know, like, yeah. So there's, there's betrayal there too, right?

Susie: 24:22

Yeah. Yep. Definitely. Uh, betrayal when they're too. yeah, so that was really, that really shifted how safe I felt in the world. And. It's amazing how formative that was. Um, And some actually very. Hard ways developmentally and me. That natural child's heart. To go out and want to play. And. Be who they are. I felt like I needed always to be hyper aware of. What was coming off of, especially girls.

Kimber: 24:52

Yeah.

Susie: 24:53

And another there's that one. And then there was one more formative right after that, that really started shaping this even more. So I'm in fifth grade. So fourth grade, that girl was in a different pod and didn't have the same recess. And so. I had friends again, I had my first boyfriend, which is not even a boyfriend in fourth grade. You pass them out

Kimber: 25:16

We know the kind yeah.

Susie: 25:18

And so forth. It's kind of fun. Fifth grade again, it's just a C went on and had different friends. It just didn't have as much power, but in first grade, There was a day. And the lunch room that there was this. Girl named Becky that she was special needs. probably similar to down syndrome, but I don't think it was actually down syndrome. I don't know, but she was very, very sweet. Sweet sweet girl. And, sometimes I would sit close to her at lunch and, two other girls that it's funny in fifth grade, thinking of popular girls that. They were pretty neat. I had some of that gravitas around them. And. Becky liked to eat a lot. So she would ask for other people's food at lunch and the girls put some like dead flies and a hamburger.

Kimber: 26:01

my gosh.

Susie: 26:02

And. And it said, Hey, Becky, we have. Hamburger and I saw them do this. And so they handed it to her. And this little Susie, I'm all of a sudden in a crisis because I'm like, do I speak out? Against the bullies and perhaps have the target news to me again.

Kimber: 26:22

Right.

Susie: 26:23

Or do I keep silent? And watch. Something really cruel.

Kimber: 26:28

Yeah.

Susie: 26:29

So. I couldn't like get burned inside of me and I couldn't stay quiet. So I spoke up and I said, Becky, don't eat that. Hamburger. And she looked at me like I was betraying her, like, why wouldn't I. It's a gift.

Kimber: 26:42

cool.

Susie: 26:42

And I don't either. You can have mine. And she's like, why is this two girls are glaring. Glaring at me. And I just say, Becky, they put something in your hamburger. That's not okay.

Kimber: 26:55

Yeah.

Susie: 26:55

Here, take mine. And. At that point, those girls started hating on me. But the reason I bring that story up is your question kind of started with like, Some of the roots of it and the formation of it. And that really shifted things in me of. Feeling still some of the loneliness. I did have some sweet friends after that. But I kind of had this weird, odd relationship with some of those girls. Cause I just. I would notice the kids being bullied. And would want to go and kind of advocate for them. And so it created this kind of, fear of. That continuing then fear then of girls. And what there. Cannabis mean girls mentality and.

Kimber: 27:43

Are there motives? What are their motives? Are they going to turn on me? Yeah.

Susie: 27:47

Yeah. So I, again, I grew this distrust that girls were safe

Kimber: 27:53

Right.

Susie: 27:53

I knew there were som, but I, I went forward with that. So. That was very formative for me. And, Also, my, my mom was a lot more introverted. Didn't have a lot of girlfriends. And so when I would come home chronic from school with those various instances, a lot of times she would try to Sue me and. Be kind to be with me, but she would, I had told her brothers so on and so forth and she say, yeah, sometimes I think guys are easier to be with. They just like punch. Over with girls can be petty and. Even though she was trying to be encouraging. It created this. I feel like lie. That I carried with me, right. The girls. you can't really connect with girls. They're unsafe

Kimber: 28:34

Right.

Susie: 28:36

It took me years. It took me into adulthood. To finally. do enough healing work. It sounds funny, but it's like, I feel like if there's a spiritual battle and evil would have loved for that to stay.

Kimber: 28:49

Yeah.

Susie: 28:50

The message. Long-term and keep me lonely

Kimber: 28:53

Because it keeps you isolated. Yeah. Yeah.

Susie: 28:58

so after lots of work, And healing journey for myself. I remember. A space where I'm like, Through the blood of Jesus Christ. I revoked. My name. From that contract, you know, where I co-sign with evil saying.

Kimber: 29:12

Yep. I am undesirable. Yeah.

Susie: 29:16

And I'm undesirable one. You know, and, I started leaning in and that was a lot of my healing journey is leaning in with a beautiful mentor. That's a beautiful woman. Other courageous friends leaning in saying, no, there's a lot of beautiful women in this world. there's a lot of beautiful people and just leaning in and saying, You know, hurt people, hurt people. And so those that sometimes do the heart, they have their own stories of hurt, but there's lots of. Other. You know, wounded healers and other people that walk with lamps, but are beautiful people to walk with. And. I feel much differently today. I love women. I love being a woman. I love raising women.

Kimber: 29:57

Yeah.

Susie: 29:58

and I have a much different relationship with that today than I use.

Kimber: 30:04

And what, like a gift of God to be able to like totally restore that. area of your life that was like, so formatively damaged. Like I feel like when we've been hurt, learning to trust again, that just, it seems like so much of my story is caught up in that struggle is like, you know, cause my, most basic, like subconscious says, if it's hurt you before. Stay way away from it. You know, why would you, why would you go back and try that again? And when that is. That like. Female relationships are not safe. Like holy cow, how do we recover from that? Like either we recover from that by the grace of God or we, or we stay lonely. I feel like those are, those are the only two ways. He friend, forgive me for taking a real quick moment in this conversation to ask a favor of you. I hope my conversation with Susie is blessing you today. And if so, would you take a moment to rate and review the show on apple podcasts? Reviews are huge in helping new friends find the show. And the bonus is I love reading. What is blessing you from the podcast? You can find the link to leave a review in the description of this episode. So thanks so much for taking a second to do that friends. All right. Now, back to the show. What do you feel like where some of the, like most, important ways that you started to move towards healing there? You mentioned like a mentor, like. your own counseling journey, like what were, what are maybe some first steps for some of our friends listening? If they're really feeling this, they're like, yes. Like relationships with women feel scary to me. I don't feel like. Vulnerability. There is some, it feels like a hard ask. what would you say could be like some first steps for them or where would you, direct them to start?

Susie: 32:06

Such a great question. Yeah. I would just really encourage, I mean, first of all, which is so hard. When we're talking about. Loneliness. And some of those things that make it scary to reach out. And one of the scariest things is reaching through that.

Kimber: 32:21

And that's what you have to do. Yeah. Yes.

Susie: 32:24

doing the opposite of what your insights.

Kimber: 32:27

Totally.

Susie: 32:27

so it's to the degree that they can moving out of isolation. Um, a lot of times. You know, it can be a pastor. It can be a friend somewhere. You know, notice, notice those people in your circles That seemed to be those wounded warriors. Like you can tell that they've healed from things themselves and you know what I mean? There's a wholeness to them. Move towards them. Ask them out for coffee, take

Kimber: 32:53

Um,

Susie: 32:54

that would be

Kimber: 32:54

Lean into it. Yeah. Hm.

Susie: 32:57

Lean into it. Another thing I would say. And I do think, you know, counseling's beautiful. Um, and a lot of people do it also because it's confidential. So it feels. Slightly less scary. and so, for any who want to encourage that, it's just a place to be known and it can feel a little scary cause it's. Accidental.

Kimber: 33:17

There's not going to be those relational risks. Like there are, I feel like with just like a friend.

Susie: 33:23

Yep. Yep. Yep. So it can feel safer and then of course it can help with that healing journey.

Kimber: 33:29

Totally. They have the tools. Yeah.

Susie: 33:31

They can start giving you the tools to walk the road. And then, I guess I said, notice those women, but then I do believe a lot of it is just. Having the courage to try again. To ask for coffee and. The first three women say no. To Kindle that desire inside of you. To ask someone else again.

Kimber: 33:53

Yeah.

Susie: 33:53

But I do think a big thing for me. I think it's really hard. Cause you talked about the repetitive. Like we can repeat them. A site. So I do believe that it's really important to understand. A little bit about what is some of the woundings that created? That loneliness Meredith. And then what are the defenses that I built up? Around that. because without curiosity, that way. I can't just reach through like my system almost won't let me do it. Like, just reach through. I have to be curious about those defenses. So that they can start to heal. And come down

Kimber: 34:32

Interesting.

Susie: 34:33

can give access to who I am. So, especially for women who feels scared that have had kind of repeat patterns, I do really encourage. Someone, whether it's a counselor or a mentor or whoever it is that someone who's kind of already walked.

Kimber: 34:50

Right.

Susie: 34:51

Some of those bad lands to come back and walk through. Those bad lands with them. Um, cause it's hard to see ourselves.

Kimber: 34:57

Yes, that is so true. That is so true. It's like our blinders are experiential blinders are just like, and we don't even realize which what they are sometimes. So it's like, how do you dismantle something without realizing it's even a thing that you do?

Susie: 35:12

Exactly. Yes. Yes. So it's hard to invite someone into that space, but I love how you called it. Blinders. I think of the horses, the right that

Kimber: 35:21

Right. That's what I'm thinking of. Yes. Yeah.

Susie: 35:24

And we have to have someone that gently with us that we will trust to start to let us know what's behind our blinders so that we can start to heal.

Kimber: 35:34

Right. I love that encouragement to like notice the women around you that you think might be equipped to help you with that because, like sometimes I think we're either drawn to people. That maybe aren't what we need. And those kinds of moments. or, you know, we're, we're just not even looking for it. But I think to intentionally, try to notice those people around us that see, I love the, the like wounded warriors kind of terminology or idea, like. To be looking for that. And I think we can even like ask God to show us, you know, like someone who could walk with us, um, to help us walk through these kind of. past experiences because, if we're not sure, like, I think we, you know, he says, If any of you lacks wisdom, like ask him. And so I think we can. We can ask him to show us those people or bring that person to our, into our life. And then, I love also that it's like, we don't have to, build Rome in a day, whatever, like, we can start with one person that. we're trusting is safe and, you know, we could be wrong. Yes. Like we don't have probably certainty there, but that using our best judgment feels safe. We can start with just them and. someday we may have rich community in our lives again, but coming back from those wounds, it doesn't have to be instantaneous. We can start small and just one person at a time. I love that encouragement to us. Susie. Do you still feel lonely today sometimes. Do you think, or is this something that's gotten smaller and smaller in your life? What is that experience like in your present day? Look like for you.

Susie: 37:09

Hmm. Well, absolutely. Um, Like we never rise above being human and. Until heaven. I'm going to live and walk in a wounded world. And so. For sure. I still experience.

Kimber: 37:26

How do you think despite that, cause I would agree. Totally. Like, how do you handle it differently today though, than you think you did like 20 or 30 years ago? Like, what is kind of the shift for you? Like, when you feel those loneliness, that those feelings of loneliness crop up. Um, how do you take that? Differently today than maybe you think you would have. You know, 20 or 30 years ago.

Susie: 37:51

Mm, I love that. for me, I always start with a curiosity within myself. Asking myself, if the loneliness I'm feeling. Is a loneliness for myself, which to me is the need for solitude. Uh, I mean for a walk. Doing our, you know, whatever it is. But the thing Connects me to myself. whether I'm feeling lonely for God. And if so then maybe I need to take a walk with God or sit quietly with him. Spent some time in contemplative prayer, you know, relaxing into the goodness of God. or am I lonely? For someone else. And if so, who. And so just this week. I was driving home from work and as I was driving. I have a half an hour drive and I was like, man, I'm feeling the ache of.

Kimber: 38:37

Um,

Susie: 38:37

And so I asked myself that question, Susie, who. Or what are you lonely for? And my heart. Spoke back a girlfriend, like some of my good heart girlfriends. And so one of them I knew I couldn't get ahold of, I have multiples out of state that are sweet women. And so it was one specific friend who was in Nebraska, out of state that she's. Really busy. I can always get ahold of her, but I'm like, I'm going to try. So.

Kimber: 39:02

Yeah.

Susie: 39:03

him. And she, she picked up the phone and started chuckling. She's like perfect. I was cleaning my house with my air by.

Kimber: 39:12

Hm.

Susie: 39:13

And we talked and we laughed and we shared hearts. so I guess that's the big difference today is today. I move. As soon as I feel loneliness, they move with. compassion and kindness towards my own farts asking. What am I lonely for? And then as soon as my heart lets me know. The night. moved towards that. So if the need for solitude, I, you know, get my corgi mind and take a walk. And sometime with me, if I create space for that, and if it's a friends or. You know, someone else, I make movement towards that. And I know sometimes that's not spelled right. Like sometimes the person can't pick up the phone or. But with that. I just honor that desire. And so I may put a reminder on my phone and. Ms back in the night.

Kimber: 40:04

Try again, right? Yeah. I love that heart of compassion for yourself. again, not like being like, oh, I'm lonely, terrible shame. I wish I didn't feel this, but like recognizing it as something that's going to communicate a need of our hearts and. then asking that question of, okay, like, what am I lonely for? Like, it's not a bad thing to feel this it's going to help me know. Um, what to move towards and then taking that courageous step. I love that that's really helpful. man, Susie. Well, thank you so much for just sharing. both your is your wisdom that you have gained from your personal experience and your professional with us. But, I just also loved hearing your stories. You have. it seems like your brain works in stories. And I love hearing that. So I, I thank you for, for sharing those with us today, they were really encouraging to meet, to hear. And, uh, no that I'm not the only one with, a bunch of stuff in my life. It's always so encouraging to hear.

Susie: 41:02

Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks. For inviting me in timber.

Kimber: 41:05

Yes. Yes. that was good. Well, Susie. So, to wrap us up here, one of my main missions with the podcast is, just to help, equip us to love our people better, to like lean towards or, uh, Like lean into that, like you were saying. And, I think part of that is just like being intentional about learning how our friends receive love. And so, you know, as we're learning about our friends is we're doing this introspective work ourselves, like communicating that to each other, like what makes them feel loved, seen, cared for how can we reach to others in our lonely moments? And so. I've been ending the podcast by asking my friends. What, is that for you? What makes you feel most loved, seen, cared for by your friends lately? Because I want to, I want to model this, in my own life and I want to practice it to like intentionally asking these kinds of questions so that we can be pressing into this in practical ways. And I think that question is been helpful for me at least to learn. So, I'd be interested. Interested in hearing for you? Like what has made you feel most loved, seen and cared for by your friends lately?

Susie: 42:16

Hmm. Love that question. Got a beautiful question.

Kimber: 42:20

I can't take credit for it. My, one of my good friends in our life group originally asked it to our group and I was just like, oh my gosh, I love that. So good. So I've been trying to ask more people at, so yeah. What, what stands out for you?

Susie: 42:32

Hmm. Uh, for me, I think it's my friends who, um, You know, where you, you just think of someone like they're on your heart and you reach out. I think it's when my friends do that. like, it's neat to be celebrated on your, I don't know your birthday or. Remembered on a special event or something, but it's those spontaneous acts of love. that I think. Make my heart just feel so much joy and kind of take my breath away. So. it makes me think of, I had three surgeries this past year, which is a whole nother story, but, um, one of my best friends, Lives out of state and the day before my surgery. This box came in the mail and I opened the box and it literally was decorated all with yellow. And it said a box of sunshine.

Kimber: 43:21

Oh,

Susie: 43:23

At the dollar store. All the fun, yellow things like a squishy. Stress ball lemonade, like silly ninja. Minion sticky notes, but. And

Kimber: 43:36

love that a box of sunshine, so cool.

Susie: 43:39

Yeah. I just felt so seen and loved by that. Um, So I think it's just those spontaneous, you know, and it can be more simple than that, right? Like a friend's voice. I'm just saying, I was thinking of you today. I love you so much. Whatever. So I guess those spontaneous acts of love.

Kimber: 43:58

I love that. It's I think it's so common for us to. Like we think of someone and we think, oh, I was thinking, I'm thinking of them, like whatever. And then we just move on. And so I love that. Just inspiration to like act on it, to, make the move. whether it's a text or something bigger. I think getting in the habit of acting on our thoughts, when those friends come to mind, I think that's the holy spirit bringing them to our hearts. So. I think that's a way we can practice obedience to his voice. So that's so cool. Well, Susie, thank you so much for being here. I loved hearing from me today and, I just appreciate your, your voice in my life and that we were able to get to hear, hear from me today. So thanks so much, friend.

Susie: 44:38

All right. Thanks so much number.

Kimber: 44:46

Sisters. I'm so glad you could join Susie and I this week on the, your sister Kimber podcast. Loneliness comes for us all at times, but I love how Susie taught us that loneliness shouldn't necessarily be viewed as something negative to avoid, but rather as a check engine light to invite reflection, prayer, and then movement towards something we need. And as you're digging into some of these reflective questions, what better place to do that then with a trusted friend? My new digital resource might just be the tool to get you started on this kind of conversation. Part of it is all about how you're wired as an introvert extrovert, internal or external processor. And whether you like to be more spontaneous or if you're a planner like me, I hope these questions, which are just a few out of 20 facts that you can learn about your friends by printing out this free PDF to use it, your next girls gathering. I hope it'll help you grow closer to each other and maybe more aware of how you receive friendship. You can download it on my website, which is linked in the description of this episode. And if you haven't yet joined my newsletter crew, will you visit your sister kimber.com right now to subscribe? When you subscribe, you get my weekly newsletters goes directly to your email inbox each week with a preview of what will be featured on the podcast that week. Plus a link to this month's blog post, and some other fun resources and tips to help you grow friendships that. Honor God and draw closer to Jesus. I really hope it blesses you. And I just want to say friends. Thank you so much. For being part of this community with me. Until next time. It's your sister Kimber.