Ep. 47 The Pain of Bearing Children + Rachael Coria

Because one in five women will struggle with fertility challenges, we can't NOT talk about how this affects our friendships. In the inherently lonely journey of fertility, we need friends around us who understand the pain wrapped up in bearing children, whether they have directly experienced what we are walking through or not.

Rachael Coria graciously lets us into her past story of miscarriage and current journey through infertility, soberly refusing to try to put a neat bow on this complex and challenging area of our lives. Instead, she points us to Jesus at every turn, speaking Biblical wisdom to those walking their own fertility journeys and those of us who are walking alongside a friend through such a valley. 

For more Your Sister, Kimber content, including the Blog and FREE Resources, visit yoursisterkimber.com!

Become a subscriber at Your Sister, Kimber to get exclusive access to my NEW free resource, straight to your inbox.

Let's become friends! Follow me on Instagram or Facebook for more of Your Sister, Kimber.

Don't forget to leave a rating & review on Apple Podcasts! This is such a blessing to me and really helps new friends find the show. Thank you, friends!

Transcript

Kimber: 0:09

Hey friends. Welcome to the, your sister Kimber podcast. My name is Kimberly Gilbert, and I'm so glad you're here. It's my honor today to be talking with my friend, Rachel Correa, about a part of each of our journeys that. Affects so many of us today, we're talking about how loneliness comes for us on our journeys through fertility and the challenges that we face when growing a family isn't as easy as we assumed it would be. In fertility miscarriage, birth trauma, infant loss. There is so much pain in childbearing. And I'm not talking about literal labor pains here. We feel this aspect of the curse of sin so heavily, I think. And whether it's part of your story or you're walking it with a friend. This road is perhaps one of the hardest that we will traverse in this life. And friend, I don't want you to walk it alone any longer. If this is part of your story, I am so honored that you would join us for this talk today. I'm praying. It helps you remember that you are seen and loved and treasured by your friends. And most importantly, by the Lord. And if this isn't part of your story friends, we need to lean in here and learn. Our sisters need us in this fight. I wish we could talk this out, looking at each other eye to eye with a warm mug of coffee in our hands, but this is the next best thing. I'm so glad you're here, friend. Let's get started.

Rachael: 1:38

Hi.

Kimber: 1:38

Hey, how are you doing today? How's your day been?

Rachael: 1:41

It's been good. I've been nervous and just pitting this conversation, but it's been a good day. we got some things done and so it's always feels good to make progress

Kimber: 1:53

Absolutely. Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to our friends listening, so they kind of know what your, what your days look like right now.

Rachael: 2:00

my name's Rachel Coria. I, right now I'm a stay-at-home mom. so most of my days kind of revolve around like, doing things with my daughter and just try to keep the house, in somewhat of a livable mand state. but I've also, so I also teach once a week, uh, Spanish for kids, that are doing homeschool classes.

Kimber: 2:25

Yeah.

Rachael: 2:26

And then I also recently started a job as a community administrator, which is very, very part-time. It doesn't sound part-time, I don't

Kimber: 2:36

It sounds pretty intense. Yeah.

Rachael: 2:37

it's for, o pairs that are like coming in from other countries and they s. Live in a home and they nanny the children

Kimber: 2:45

Yeah.

Rachael: 2:46

in the home with. And so I just have one, a pair that I'm working with in one family, so it's

Kimber: 2:52

Cool.

Rachael: 2:53

maybe like seven hours a month. So again, my day-to-day is very much just like life and trying to figure that out.

Kimber: 3:03

absolutely. Friends listening, if you have been listening to the podcast for very long, you have probably heard about Rachel because you were just a really formative friend for me in the time when we were in Fairbanks. we sort of became friends out of a really difficult like friendship loss season for me. And I think that a lot of that sort of funneled into me starting, you know, my writing and stuff and podcasting with your sister Kimber. And so I feel like I end up kind of talking about you often which is so cool. You guys just were such you so generously embraced us, I feel like, when we needed people. And so I feel like, it's really, it's fun to be able to talk to you today because I feel like I've talked about you some, um, in a little bit more abstract way around here before. But, um, we got to spend lots of good afternoons, just like doing the toddler lunch situation thing. And then we would put the kids down to nav and we got to do some Bible study. Just hangout time. And those were such sweet times for me. I loved that. It was

Rachael: 4:09

Yeah, I, I appreciate that. And it was a very interesting time for me too, because I think right before, like we started hanging out more, the Lord was really showing to me like, you need to pour into different people. Because I've lived in Fairbanks practically my whole life. And so I, there's a lot of people I, I know and it can be hard to know like who to pour into.

Kimber: 4:34

Yeah.

Rachael: 4:34

but it was specifically a time that like the doors were open to like, yes, like pursue new people and pursue them. not neglecting your other relationships, but you might be spending more time with new people, which is very interesting.

Kimber: 4:50

it is. yeah, it's, it's foreign to me to think about living in the same place my whole life, you know? And like, or at least most of it. And having like, your friendship still ebb and flow, right? Like it's, those dynamics still change. But for me, those dynamic changes have always happened in conjunction, or often have happened in conjunction with also moving location. And so I feel like it's easy to like blame those kind of things on the changes of location or, you know, jobs or, or whatever. but I feel like they happen anyway. Right. Like what has been a good side of like always living in the same place friendship-wise and what has been like a more challenging side of it, would you say?

Rachael: 5:33

Yeah. I would say one of the best things is like having history with people that, like I have friends that I'm 36 now, that I was friends with, in my early twenties and maybe a little bit before that. And so there's a lot of sweetness in that. And then experiencing life stages, together. the challenge there is like in the opening up your like world to like, we live in a, a military town, so like people that are in the military that, you know, won't be there for very long. So you know that You desire, like the same sort of depth of relationship that you have with other people, but you know, like this is probably just gonna be for a time and, and that's very challenging. but so good too. Um, it's really good to like be open to those new relationships and to grow and be willing to like, at times focus more on those relationships, which feels odd in some ways to be like, we can't just like pour into everyone at all times,

Kimber: 6:43

That's so true though. It's so true. There's like a certain capacity only. I love that you said that, like you felt like the Lord is kind of pushing you in that direction, like cuz I think we can like ask God, like, what do you have for me in the area of friendship right now and stuff. And I think that's not maybe one that we a lot of times think about, talking to God about. At least I, I don't think that I have historically thought about that a lot. You know, you think about maybe like in your marriage, if you're married or you think about, you know, family or, you know, what should I do is my job next or, you know, something. But I, I think that's really cool to like ask him and seek what do you have for me in the area of friendship right now? And then was that like sort of a challenge to you? Was that like a out of your comfort zone kind of call? Or was it just a shift?

Rachael: 7:26

it's, it's always sort of like an out of my comfort zone thing, because like the more comfortable thing is to just stick with the people that like, I know that when I like hang out with them, like I know what to expect. I know probably the conversations we'll have, which there can be good and bad there.

Kimber: 7:45

Sure

Rachael: 7:45

fall into a rut with your friends that you've known forever. but yeah, at the same time, like feel like the Lord was really showing to me like there is a need where you are for people who need depth of a relationship that don't currently have avenues for that. And

Kimber: 8:06

He was talking about me, Rachel

Rachael: 8:09

Yeah. Maybe.

Kimber: 8:10

No, not only me, I'm sure, but I was one of those. Yes, yes.

Rachael: 8:15

Yeah. And calling like the call to step out of like the place where I felt very comfortable and then I had grown in, into like a new. Place is very uncomfortable.

Kimber: 8:27

Totally. Mm.

Rachael: 8:29

like, it's like one of those things when the Lord, like more and more you can feel the pressure to like do what you're supposed to do

Kimber: 8:36

Yeah.

Rachael: 8:37

And it was like, okay, God, like you've been telling me this. And now it's just time to like, not cut ties completely, but like cut some of the like ties the weekly meetings sort of things that we are doing with, with other relationships and then Make room. for new people, which

Kimber: 8:55

so cool. Well, I know I was blessed by your obedience there, which is cool to like see the, I don't know, it's cool to see like the hindsight of that and like hear that. That's one reason I love having these conversations, especially with people that, like I've known for a while because I feel like these kind of things always come up and it's like you get to look back and you get to see like where they were at and like how you like answered each other's prayer requests or like how someone was there f like, I don't know. It's just, it's really cool. So, ugh. I love hearing that. Well, you know, today this is probably kind of one of those those moments as well because, I'm really honored that you would have this conversation with me today because it's definitely one that, as I was thinking about this loneliness series that we've been in, that I was like, ah, we gotta talk about the struggles that surround just. our lives as women in general because fertility, infertility, miscarriage, like all the things that surround the complexities of having babies, you know, just we can big umbrella that it's all so complex. And I feel like I wasn't prepared for it. coming into adulthood. Like, I felt like it was just a given. Like, you know, if you wanna have kids, you can have kids. And if you don't, you don't like, oh man. But like it's, there's so much more, there's so much more there. And so just in like the past, I mean maybe like five years as I feel like for me, just where I'm at in life, when this started becoming just like such a burden on my heart because I'm just, it affects every corner of our relationships as women, I feel like, in one way or another. And talking about loneliness specifically, I'm like, man, there's so much that I think comes from this. Like whether it's, you know, a friend who's walking through miscarriage and like that is a lonely grief in many ways, which we'll get into here, you know? And, infertility, several of my very close friends are walking through that as well, and it's like, how do I love them? Well through that, you know, not having walked through it myself you know, and then there's the complexities of do you wanna have kids? When do you wanna have kids? Like, it is an inherently isolating journey, I feel like, because of how, like, privacy and, you know, just our culture, um, how it interacts with this. And so, I was like, man, we gotta talk about this. But it's a big thing and it's a nuanced subject. Yeah. And so I am really thankful to you for at least like, scratching the surface of it with me today. And, um, just sharing a little bit about your story with it as well. Do you feel like when you like came into adulthood, were you like aware of just the struggle surrounding like bearing children? You know, it's like in Genesis, in the, the curse we hear like pain and childbirth, but it's not like labor pains. Like, yes, there's that, but it's like struggle around the idea, the whole encompassing thing of like having children is gonna be, there's gonna be struggle there. And I'm like, yep, I see it now. But I wasn't prepared for that. Do you feel like you were going into adulthood or was this kind of something that came on you suddenly

Rachael: 12:09

I would say that I relate to a lot in the sense that I also thought that like, okay, like having kids, like planning that out, that's all a given. Like, that's exactly like the thought process. And so a lot of like, my current journey also is reflecting on those things that I thought were just going to happen and kind of grieving that the reality doesn't look like I had expected. And I come from a large family, there's six of us children and we're all pretty much two years apart. So there's like some of that that's like ingrained in me that like,

Kimber: 12:48

the way it

Rachael: 12:49

it's, it's not hard to have children or something.

Kimber: 12:53

right. Sometimes I joke with my friends, it's like, you know, we grew up, I think being so like, like be careful. Like, you know, like stay away. You know? And then it's like you actually learn about how everything that has to happen to actually like create a baby I mean,

Rachael: 13:10

It's a miracle. It really is. A

Kimber: 13:12

yes. And when you come face to face, I think with like that struggle in either your own life or the life of a friend, even more so, it's completely miraculous and yet Yeah. It, it's so often doesn't seem that way, you know?

Rachael: 13:25

exactly. I think it's also painted in a way like by society like that we get to choose like in current. Age, like we have a lot of choices if it comes to like choosing birth control or even just like choosing to like follow your cycles naturally. Like there's so much information and there's so many options that it feels like you can control it,

Kimber: 13:51

it gives the illusion of control. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Rachael: 13:55

Yeah.

Kimber: 13:55

so true. Well, I'm excited to, to hear from your perspective on this, because it seems so pervasive, at least in like, my situation in life right now. I'm like so many people that I know are touched by this, whether they're experiencing it or they have a close friend that's walking through it. And so, I just, I think we need to talk about it more and I'm, I'm really thankful that, it is getting talked about more, just like the struggles of it and how we can be good friends to each other as we're walking through that. So thank you for, for being willing to today. Maybe we can kind of start with just how has, fertility challenges in general. Has this touched your story? And, um, where, where are you coming from as you come to this convers.

Rachael: 14:40

Yeah. you know, there's the long story and then the shorter immigration of it, but I think I'll try to land somewhere in the middle.

Kimber: 14:48

Yeah.

Rachael: 14:49

so from the planning side of things, like my husband and I got married we kind of decided we both wanted to be done with school for the most part. Like, and then we would start trying and we got married around, we were 27, 28, and so we were looking at like early thirties. All right. That will be the time.

Kimber: 15:11

Yeah,

Rachael: 15:12

Year four of marriage hit which is also like about four years ago now. So a little over four years, we like started the process of trying to ha like start our family and grow our family, all those things. And miraculously we got pregnant right away and, I was not expecting that necessarily, but it happened. And we went in for our first appointment at about, six weeks. And the, yeah, the midwife was very quiet during that ultrasound and afterwards she explained to us something that I was kind of confusing at the time, but it was like, okay, like it's very likely you're gonna miscarry this baby. And,

Kimber: 15:59

gosh. So you had not at that point.

Rachael: 16:02

Yeah, I hadn't yet. there was no, like, heartbeat detected, but, um, what she was saying was like, blood work needed to be done to confirm that it was like this pregnancy would end with me miscarrying.

Kimber: 16:17

Oh man.

Rachael: 16:17

and we had already told a lot of people, and so when we left, like one of the first things I told my husband was like, why did we tell so many people? because I didn't wanna have to like relive the grief I was feeling, like I wanted to just hold up and be by myself and cry and grieve and all those things. and. Yeah. So blood work later in that week confirmed that we were gonna miscarry and, and then we did a few weeks later and the process of all that was pretty awful. Um,

Kimber: 16:58

I mean, the waiting for that seems to me like it would be really unbearable.

Rachael: 17:03

yes, yeah, I mean, I was teaching at the time and I, so I had, we had decided not to have the miscarriage like induced or like any of those things. partly because like I was hanging on to

Kimber: 17:19

Mm-hmm.

Rachael: 17:20

what if they're wrong, you know, or

Kimber: 17:22

Yeah, Yeah,

Rachael: 17:23

and so it was just a really awful time. And because we had told a lot of people, we had to tell a lot of people that we were miscarrying our baby too, and. To be honest, like I was in such grief that there were people that I hadn't told yet that, like the day that I found out I was in like a church class and I left to talk to the doctor, and a friend was like coming out and I was just like, she came up, she could tell something was wrong. She gave me a huge hug and I burst into tears and I told her that. So I was pregnant. I'm miscarrying this, this baby. And it was a friend that had been struggling with infertility for years. So it was very like, kind of strange that like the person God gave me in that moment to comfort me was someone that had been wanting a baby for so long

Kimber: 18:18

Hmm.

Rachael: 18:19

and, so we were loved so well by God in, in those like subsequent days because, because we had let people in.

Kimber: 18:31

hmm. Right.

Rachael: 18:32

and there were a few things that like, were just reinforced to me about God, like in those early days and then like subsequent months as well was just like, okay, like God is sovereign and he is good, he's good. And so like, it did not make any sense at all. Like why? We would get pregnant with this baby and then never be able to hold him or her. And none of that made sense. But like, God loved us through his children and people brought us meals and came to hang out with us. And I remember one friend specifically coming to my door and just, she's like, I can just drop things off. And like, she burst into tears. She's like, I'm sorry that I'm the one crying. And I'm like, but it felt so good to me to have

Kimber: 19:28

Hmm.

Rachael: 19:29

my grief validated that she was grieving with me.

Kimber: 19:33

yeah,

Rachael: 19:34

so those early days were just really hard, but also sweet and how, we were loved in those moments.

Kimber: 19:42

That's something that, that last bit that you shared about like your friend, apologizing for like, I'm sorry, I'm the one man. I like really resonate with that because in my relationships where friends are walking through hard. Moments, some with infertility, um, a few with miscarriages. It's like, I don't wanna be a burden, you know? Like, I don't want you to feel like you have to take care of me you know, like I never want my friend to feel like she has to say like, it's okay or something, or like to me inre, but I think that I expressed that tension the other day to, a group of ladies that I was processing some things with. and one of the gals said that similar thing. She was like, I don't know what your friend's like, but when I've been in that situation, she was like, honestly, like seeing a friend grieve authentically with me. it made me feel like I wasn't alone and like, you know, it validated it, like you said, which that is kind of a shift to me, and I feel like it's given me some permission to like express some of those aspects of like how this grieves my heart, which is not in any way comparable. to, you know, the actual mother, but like, still is like, it's okay to show that, you know, is do you think there's like a way that's makes it not okay or does it depend on your relationship? Like, do you know what I mean? Is there like anything we should caution ourselves against as like, friends trying to love someone in that moment,

Rachael: 21:16

yeah, I would say, it's hard because, I do think that like women in that position really process differently.

Kimber: 21:25

Yeah, that's so true. and it can look so different for everyone's situation is so different too.

Rachael: 21:31

yeah. But I do think like the depth of your relationship with that person does count. and I do think sometimes things aren't received well in the moment and later can be appreciated. and. Used to be more slow to like reach out to people that I knew were grieving because I didn't know how to meet them in their grief. But I would say now that I've had different moments in life that like were intense grief moments,

Kimber: 22:02

Mm-hmm.

Rachael: 22:03

I remember what people specifically did for me that were helpful and I try to do that for other people. if you are like, unsure of what be helpful, I'd say ask your friend and, rather than having like a blanket question, like is there anything I can do to help? Which a person who's grieving, I grieving, I think often doesn't

Kimber: 22:28

Doesn't know. Yeah, a hundred

Rachael: 22:30

But if you were to like offer like, hey, like can I bring you a meal or come and do your dishes, or just sit with you and have tea? Like, do any of these sound good to you?

Kimber: 22:43

A, B, or C

Rachael: 22:45

Yeah. And maybe, maybe none of those sound good, but it, I think that gives your friend the opportunity to be like yes or no. Um, and they kind of be at the wheel of like letting you comfort them or not.

Kimber: 23:01

I love that

Rachael: 23:01

maybe if you're being hit like super hard by what they're going through, maybe there's like a balance of like not being hysterical, like when you're with them, but like, maybe just like having processed and prayed through things before you meet them. I think that helps. you're right, like you don't wanna like further burden your friend.

Kimber: 23:22

right. It feels like a balance.

Rachael: 23:24

it is. Yeah.

Kimber: 23:26

I, I also appreciate what you said about the, like, depth of friendship because, you know, I, I think it's important to remember that like, we aren't everyone's best friend and we don't need to be so like, Just because we know about something doesn't necessarily mean that, we're needed to be like in the closest, care circle for that. So I think really like evaluating that maybe like your motives with like an honest heart. Like, if I'm like authentically feeling grief here and I feel like that is something that, I'm sharing with like a best closest friend Yeah. That seems like the most authentic response. But if it's more like, oh, I just like feel bad for them, you know, I think there's difference there. And I think, like you said, processing that with someone else even could help you figure out that, that kind of thing. Like the specific I'm talking about. Like I got to talk about that with my Bible study, who like my friend is not in that. So it was like a space where I could process that with people who, you know, love the Lord were safe, and could gimme some wisdom, they weren't in that situation themselves. And so, um, I think that could be a really, a really helpful thing too, is like to know that we don't only have to like be with the person in that, but that can help us get to a place where we can, I don't know, make sure, just check our motives and our heart a little bit.

Rachael: 24:46

Yeah. I think that's good.

Kimber: 24:52

Hey friend, forgive me for taking a quick moment in this conversation to ask a favor of you. I hope my conversation with Rachel is blessing you today. And if so, would you just take a moment to rate and review the show on apple podcasts? Reviews are huge and helping new friends find the show and bonuses. I do love reading. What is blessing you from each of the episodes, You can find the link to leave a review in the description of this episode. So, thanks so much for taking a second to do that. Okay. Now back to the shell. So how did this continue in your life? Um, where did it go? From here?

Rachael: 25:32

So we, what we were living at was like, all right, we wanted to start trying again to have another baby. And there's a lot of conflicting emotions after having a miscarriage pregnant.

Kimber: 25:49

Mm, yes. Mm-hmm.

Rachael: 25:52

And then like, what if I get pregnant again and miscarry again and all these fears, but still really, really hoping that you'll get pregnant. So, we tried almost a year, I think, when I got pregnant with my daughter, so, so yeah, I carried her full term

Kimber: 26:11

Mm-hmm. and she's wonderful.

Rachael: 26:13

she is really great. I really love her

Kimber: 26:16

Hmm.

Rachael: 26:17

yeah, so that kind of like puts a pause on like a fertility journey cuz it's like this moment of like, okay, like God gave us a child. Like this is wonderful and beautiful and like, She probably wouldn't be if we didn't miscarry the first, which is

Kimber: 26:36

that's a whole thing.

Rachael: 26:38

beautiful and awful

Kimber: 26:40

Yep.

Rachael: 26:40

about. And so somewhere like along the first year of her life we decided like, okay, when she turns one, we're gonna start trying again. and we still haven't gotten pregnant and it's been, like a year and a half of like trying after that, so, because I'm 36, so I think when they say you're, if you're 35 or older, like after trying six months, go get things checked out.

Kimber: 27:08

Okay.

Rachael: 27:08

so that was kind of in the back of my head. And, six months hit and something really weird kind of happened, I. Took some pregnancy tests because it was like a longer cycle. My cycle kind of

Kimber: 27:21

Uhhuh. Yeah.

Rachael: 27:23

and I saw two lines, and it was, the second one was very faint. And then the next day, the same thing happened. And like, I announced to my husband that we were pregnant, all these things. And then I sent a picture of it to my sister because there was like a little bit of doubt in the back of my head because it was so faint. And she's like, Rachel, I, I don't see a second line. And it was like awful and weird and like devastating. Like, because I had already started like counting on this, like I don't know what to call it, like, um, Non-existent pregnancy that I thought was real.

Kimber: 28:07

Well just, yeah. That what you thought? Yeah.

Rachael: 28:11

And our minds can play terrible tricks on us. I, I think legitimately that's what happened and it almost feels embarrassing, like to think about that time because I was like so deceived in my own head, you know?

Kimber: 28:28

I mean, it's like, this is, to me, one of the struggles of, you know, walking an infertility journey, to me that seems so challenging is it's so like, pervasive in your life. Like it's, everything is wrapped up in it that like, you know, you're hoping for something so intently always, because it's like either you're in, you know, the week of like, you're trying to, you know, make that happen or, and you know, not mess up your days or whatever, like, or you're waiting for those two weeks or you're in a week of disappointment. Like it's always. Present. And so the fact that you would Experience that, that doesn't seem crazy to me at all. And I don't think it should be embarrassing because like, I actually have a friend who did the same thing actually. And, and it almost seems like just, it seems like a cruel trick of the enemy. Those kind of like hopeful moments when it's like you think something and then it just, nope. And it's just like, ugh. And then it's that over and over and over month after month. Like what seems to me like it can become so devastating it's like how do you get your hopes up over and over and deal with the disappointment? what has that rollercoaster, if you will, looked like for you?

Rachael: 29:48

Yeah. I think this is an area that I hope there's been growth in. Um, yeah, it's hard, especially like, uh, those about two weeks, like after ovulation when you're just like waiting and I've never been more aware of my body and all the different like, feelings that happen like throughout the month and.

Kimber: 30:13

pain here. Is that good? Oh, I feel sick. Or did I eat a bad sandwich? Like, yeah, you're, and you're overthinking constantly, I

Rachael: 30:21

Yep. Yeah, there have been a number of times that I have felt nauseous. There have been times that I've felt like the metal mouth sensation, like

Kimber: 30:30

Yeah.

Rachael: 30:31

weird, like shortness of breath, like all these like weird things that, can often be labeled as like early pregnancy. but I think the, like growth in this area is for me has been realizing like what a battle those two weeks are and trying to anticipate the battle before it comes. Um, because oftentimes, there are gonna be aspects of the cycle that I feel caught off guard by. and even in entering the battle as far as like my thought life and, um, trying to stay present and

Kimber: 31:08

Hmm. Yeah.

Rachael: 31:09

it's just easy to like from one day to the next. have your thoughts shift or you land more on the, like, like hoping so much that you're thinking ahead, like planning and then, or like feeling like not hopeful at all, so again, I think the growth there has been like, The Lord has really been reinforcing to me that I just need to abide in him. because I've never felt so unstable, like in my emotions and thought life as in this fertility journey, and it really highlights my need to like, for remain in the Lord. because I, I know that when I am like with him and praying and spending time in his word and giving up a thought when it comes to my head, giving that up to the Lord and being like, okay, God, I know first of all that, you know, like I have this twinge in my side and it's making me think that I might be pregnant. But like, I can be okay not knowing because you know, I will eventually know, but for now, I don't know. And that's okay. and oftentimes he just shows me like the beautiful things about that day. so it is a very strange thing, but it's being willing to enter the battle and know that it's coming potentially, and, and not being apathetic to, to, stall the feelings. because there are times in that. In those two weeks that I like, I know that I need to go to the Lord with how I'm feeling and I don't want to, because I think we forget what his rest and his peace feels like and how that is so much better than anything else that we can think or feel.

Kimber: 33:03

Yeah, because it's like this goal, the have a baby, like that's the goal. And I think sometimes when the goal is so big, it's like, Drowns everything else out. Which it's not a bad goal, of course, you know, like it's good. But yeah, I love that of like, rest, his rest and his presence being the like, best thing in the midst of all that. Hmm. You're, as you said, that like, um, it can shift from day to day. you know, it's not like, oh, my two week wait is always this way, Like, definitely not right? It's like, you know, some days are hopeful, some days are. Devastating and frustrating, I'm sure. Like, how do you think, how have you seen maybe, through your own experience or, you know, in even, I don't know if you've walked through this with other friends too, you know, how can we, like, love our friends well, an infertility journey. Like what are some things that you have seen friends do that have made you feel really loved and that, have been really helpful and what are, you know, if there's anything that comes to mind that like we really need to stop doing or that just is not gonna bring life to our friend who's walking through this kind of a season, do you think, and I know it's one perspective, but I think it's good to like hear this kind of thing.

Rachael: 34:21

Yeah, I appreciate that because like, you always wanna consider the friend that is experiencing it and know them, to know what helpful is not helpful, but yes. I think there are some things that can translate from one experience to the next. Um, I would say currently what's been most helpful is I have a few friends that I don't know if they just like remember off the top of their head or if they're like putting it in their calendar, but like they have a general sense of like, like my cycle and like when it's ending. Like sometimes like even when I'm ovulating, like those sort of things.

Kimber: 35:00

You're Like how do you know this?

Rachael: 35:02

Yeah. It's pretty, it's awesome. Um, and particularly like coming to the end of a cycle, like I think they're pretty good about not day one being like, Hey, how's it going? But like a few days in like, just checking up on me because they've anticipated be a hard time

Kimber: 35:23

yeah,

Rachael: 35:23

So I think that has been like very helpful to me. I think also just praying for our friends that are. In these situations, because praise God that you don't know like exactly what it is that they're like feeling and going through. but through prayer, our love for people grows and our thoughtfulness of that person grows. And when I'm praying for someone, I'm much more willing to send them a text or connect with them in some way. so I think that's like primary. Um,

Kimber: 35:58

I love the encouragement to pray for them. That's so, that's so good because it's like, I think we can pray for the situation, but I think even expanding that prayer to like praying for their heart, not just like the outcome we want and stuff. And, but then also like asking God to like grow our capacity as friends for them specifically in this moment. you know, especially if this is like a new situation that you're coming to and like, if someone has never, if you've never walked through that or you know, you've never had a friend who has walked through that, like, we can ask God to give us wisdom. Right. And he can like grow our capacity to be a good friend in that situation. I think so. I love that reminder.

Rachael: 36:38

yeah,

Kimber: 36:39

beautiful.

Rachael: 36:39

And it's huge like when your friends aren't going through the same things, to know that they are like, at least like thoughtful of that you are going through those things, and particularly in like infertility. Probably because it's something that's I am always aware of. and as a friend you don't have to always be aware.

Kimber: 37:01

Mm-hmm.

Rachael: 37:02

but knowing that, you thought of me in a moment

Kimber: 37:06

Yeah.

Rachael: 37:07

is is very huge. and on the like, other side, like things that aren't helpful, first of all, I'm very thankful for my friends. I think primarily they have just been helpful and a lot of the like, horror stories of like unhelpful things, like people like, giving you information about like adoption or like other avenues that as a person is. Struggling with like, trying to get pregnant. I'm aware of the

Kimber: 37:37

I'm very aware of the options.

Rachael: 37:39

and, and I've considered them.

Kimber: 37:42

Yeah.

Rachael: 37:43

and my prayer is that the Lord would lead me to those things if I am supposed to end up there. Um, so thankfully like that hasn't really happened too much for me. but I would say in particular, if your friend is sharing like where they're at or what they're going through, or the last doctor's appointments, know that it's coming from a really vulnerable place. And so if the conversation gets interrupted, like, and your friend can't finish what they're saying, that can be really painful.

Kimber: 38:15

Yeah.

Rachael: 38:16

and not that we have to take out. every interruption. maybe going back to that conversation later, or sending a text and being like, I'm sorry, we were interrupted. Like right as you were sharing these things. and reinforcing like your care for them very important and very sweet. And I think for me, like in the, like isolation that happens in my head with

Kimber: 38:40

Mm-hmm. yeah.

Rachael: 38:42

I feel like Satan often attacks my friendships and feeling like, the lies that come in, I should say are like, they don't really like care about you. like you're not fun to be around because you're going through these things.

Kimber: 38:58

right?

Rachael: 38:59

all sorts of things that like, are really awful and untrue.

Kimber: 39:03

Yeah. As I was preparing for a conversation, I was actually thinking about that, like it just. It makes me so angry at how the enemy works because not only is he out to like bring death to this area of our lives? Like, in our, childbearing, if you will, as part of the curse, right? But then he also uses that to try to bring death to our relationships. Like, I think of marriages broken from fertility challenges, you know, from loss. and then friendships, like as we're talking about here, like, whether it's through awkwardness, like feeling like you don't know how to approach it. So you just don't and that, like, that breaks friendships. It can. Or through saying something, you know. that's not well thought through, or unkind and then not being able to apologize or, you know, like, oh man, there's just so many ways that I feel like he is coming for our relationships to just bring death and so it makes me angry and it makes me wanna have these kind of conversations because I'm like, we can grow in this area. You know? Like we clearly do not have control over much control over, you know, what happens in growing a baby. that's pretty much God's purview. But I do have, I do have some ability to like, love my friends better and to like work on my marriage and, you know, and to identify how I can be a good friend to someone and then, try my best by the grace of God to do that. And so, I love that you bring that up because it's like, we can't be unaware of his schemes in this area of our lives because it will hurt your friendships if we don't intentionally look at how are we handling the fertility aspect of our lives as women, it, it'll hurt'em. It'll hurt'em.

Rachael: 40:51

Yeah. I'm glad that you brought up the marriage piece, I mean, really the most important piece in a fertility journey. I like in just thinking about this topic and the loneliness piece, and just in the last few months, coming to realization like the things that I have kept guarded and that I have like chosen to isolate, like from friends and my husband. Cause I didn't wanna burden anyone else with like, what I was feeling. Um, in particular in that two week battle, we should call it, not two week wait,

Kimber: 41:28

You know what? I love that. It's a thing.

Rachael: 41:30

Yes. Yeah. So in that two week battle, like. If I'm like feeling particularly hopeful in a day, like, oh my gosh, like I think I might be pregnant. Like, I have all these things that I'm feeling. I often don't wanna tell my husband for a couple reasons, first because if I am pregnant, I'd like to have the like picture perfect surprise. I'm pregnant moment,

Kimber: 41:54

That's another thing. Infertility steals is the. surprise we all know, we

Rachael: 41:59

it doesn't need to be a

Kimber: 42:01

Yeah. But it's sweet. I get it. I get it.

Rachael: 42:03

yes. Me too. I do understand that. Um, and the second thing was like, I don't want my husband to suffer. Like I don't want him to like be in pain or like sometimes even know my pain because that's painful to him. So like, I like expressed this to him like a few months ago, and I was like, I am not sharing all these things with you because of these reasons. And he is like, but we're one like I am supposed to help you carry your burdens and you're supposed to help me carry mine. And that was like really profound truth to me in that moment because I was avoiding that. I wa like, I was trying to take it all on myself and in some ways, like almost like a, self-righteous way. Like I can figure it out. Like I'll be okay if I'm the only one that knows about it, but I, but maybe these other people won't be okay if they know about it.

Kimber: 43:05

Hmm.

Rachael: 43:06

And there's a control piece too. Like, I don't want my husband, I don't want my friends to be thinking I'm pregnant when I'm not. Like, I just wanna be thinking that because it's, it's hard enough for me.

Kimber: 43:18

yeah.

Rachael: 43:19

but we're told like to carry one another's burdens and weep when our brothers and sisters weep and rejoice when they rejoice. And that also reminds me of like, if your friend is struggling with infertility and you get pregnant, I feel like that's like a, an interesting spot to be in. However, we're supposed like to rejoice, like when our friends are rejoicing and. Like I read recently that like, your joys can be a balm for someone else's sorrows. And I thought that that was just so true and beautiful. And even though your friend that's struggling might need more time to process and might my process in a different way than your like, average person receiving the news, it's also just like really beautiful and wonderful, like when God ordas that a life should begin and let alone the fact that like, hopefully not, but like something could happen in the pregnancy and as your friend, like, I want to be able to like pray for this baby. I want to be able to love you if you're not feeling well. Like, I don't wanna just be looking in all the time, although like my body and my thought life is like, Constantly drawing me to just be looking in at my

Kimber: 44:41

Right?

Rachael: 44:42

stuff.

Kimber: 44:42

hmm. And with the idea of like loneliness and isolation, like that's what the enemy wants. Like he wants you to just be, isolated and only in, in your own world. And it's like, I wouldn't blame you for that, but What you're saying, like, I agree and I think it's scripture's pretty clear. Like that's not when we're at our healthiest, when we're only worrying about our own, trials. And it's so hard. But I think you're right, that like looking for those opportunities to like look outside of our own situations can be a balm. I love that. Like it can be a way to see how God is working in the world, not just in my life. And I think that can be a source of hope too, even if it is kind of messy to process and some confliction in feelings about that. I think that's okay. Um, yeah. Hmm. Man, Rachel, we could, we've just like, Ticked the surface.

Rachael: 45:36

my gosh. So many layers to this

Kimber: 45:39

I like, man, we didn't even talk about half of the things that I thought of. And that's okay because, um, because it's okay. And it's one of those things that I think more than anything, I would love this to be like a start to the conversations. But like, these conversations need to happen, happen in living rooms, you know, they need to happen like on the couch with your friend who's walking through it or among your small group who's supporting a friend in that situation. Because like we've said, so nuanced and it's so different for everyone. And, at the end of the day, I think my biggest takeaway from this conversation is just like, the enemy is trying to destroy our relationships this avenue life. Really, I think it can also though, if we choose to, it can be an opportunity to just embrace our dependence on God. Both for like my sisters walking through this, you know, like you were saying about how it's forced you to really like, rely on his presence and abide in him. And for are trying to be good friends to people walking through this, like, no amount of tips and tricks are gonna help us get it right. Like the spirit of God, and relying on him is the only thing that's gonna help us get these conversations right, because they're, they're hard and, and yet they matter. I think so. Oh man. I just, I'm really thankful that we could, that we could talk today and, um, that you would share your story with us. I think it's gonna really encourage some friends listening who, I know feel your pain, very tangibly. And I appreciate also the insight you gave for those of us who are trying to learn and be good friends in this.

Rachael: 47:21

Yeah, I appreciate that. And yeah, just thinking about j one of your questions, like touched on, like what would you say to someone that like is going through this and I, oh my gosh. like, I think what I just saw that question, like tears came to my eyes because I know this is also for me. but it's also important and I would want my friends to know that I know that are going through infertility, these things. And first like is that God is so good and. he knows you. He knows your life. He knew what would happen before you were even born. it's not a mistake and you are not broken, even though it can feel that way. Um,

Kimber: 48:08

Mm

Rachael: 48:09

and that this life will not look like we often want it to. And this sadly is an area that, that our lives can look very different from how we hope. And there's real grief in that. And it's okay to grieve those things, but we've got to fix our eyes on Jesus and, and know like, even if I'm never pregnant again for myself or even if I never get pregnant, That there are better things for us as God's children who have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus. And, I, I wrote down this verse from Revelation because this is like when I was journaling one day about just the grief for me associated with these things that came to mind. And it's in Revelation 21, 4, talking about John's vision of the new heaven and says he will wipe away every tear from their eyes and death shall be no more. Neither shall there be mourning nor crying, nor pain anymore for the former things have passed away. So we have a hope that's not in the things of this world and, as beautiful as children are and as good as they are, that God, which. Give them, um, there are better things, in eternity, and that's hard to even think about sometimes, but it's true.

Kimber: 49:37

hmm. I love that. that idea of like, it's hard to think about, but it's true. Like those things are not mutually exclusive. They can coexist and that is, I feel like just such a picture of fertility journey you. Things that are hard can coexist with things that are true, particularly when it comes to the Lord, oh, Thank you so much, friend.

Rachael: 50:02

Thank you. I feel very honored to be a part of this conversation.

Kimber: 50:07

I'm really thankful for you. Oh, well I love it. So, um, as we wrap up, I would love to hear, what, as we are going into spring lights coming back, it's a little less cold. Um, what are you looking forward to with the, coming of spring, that new life, right? Like such a hopeful time. What's, uh, what are you looking forward to coming up?

Rachael: 50:30

Yeah, so I love this time of year and I love when there's still snow too, which is not every, everyone's feeling, but like. Currently, I'm looking forward to like, when our back porch is like clear of snow, so you can go out and like, have lunch, but then the snow is still around, the like warmth of the sun, when you go outside. Those things are just, it's so wonderful and yeah,

Kimber: 50:59

I remember when we lived in North Pole a couple years ago, I, we had this hammock, like they had these two sawd off trees that you could have a hammock between. And so I bought a hammock and I put it out there. I remember so distinctly one time this time of year, I like had my big old snow boots on and I tred through like the feet of snow to lay on the hammock in the sun because it was like, it's so funny, the Alaskan sun, it's crazy to me always cuz it makes you feel so warm and just laying out there and there's like snow, like brushing my butt because there's so, you know, under the hammock kind of thing. But, but it didn't matter. It was so good. Oh, I love that. Well Rachel, thanks so much for talking with us today. I love you friend.

Rachael: 51:40

You're welcome. I love you too.

Kimber: 51:47

Friends. I'm so glad you could join Rachel and I this week on the, your sister Kimber podcast. if a challenging fertility journey has been part of your story, I just want to say thank you so much for sharing this conversation with me today. I hope it encourages you to keep pressing on along this difficult road. And if you aren't walking this hard journey, personally, friend, I am praying for you today. As you love on your friend, who is. How we love our friends through their darkest days matters so much. And I think it is such an important way to image Jesus to those in our lives. So keep fighting that fight. Alongside them. And if we're thinking really practical for blessing friends on this hard journey, By new digital resource might be just the tool that you need to get those details. It's called 20 facts to know about your friends. And these are the kinds of things that are just going to give you the fodder to like bless and love on them in tangible ways. It's a free PDF. You can download and either print, or you can just text it to a friend to fill out for you, then save those ideas in your phone, under their contact card for when you need it. You can get this resource on my website, which is linked in the description of this episode. And if you haven't yet joined my newsletter crew, will you visit your sister kimber.com to subscribe? When you subscribe, you get my weekly newsletter directly to your email inbox, with a preview of what will be featured on the podcast that week. Plus a link to this month's blog post, and some other resources tips to help you grow friendships that honor God and draw you closer to Jesus. And thank you so much for being part of this community friends until next time. It's your sister Kimber.