Your Sister, Kimber
Your Sister, Kimber
Ep.49 That Postpartum Life + Jaclyn Levesque
Love it or hate it, the postpartum season is wild. Jaclyn Levesque, who just had her third baby, chats with Kimber about the ups, downs, highs and lows of the postpartum season, as well as how this time uniquely impacts our friendships. They share differences in their own experiences, particularly how circumstances impact postpartum time, how loneliness showed up uniquely during the newborn days, as well as ways to love our friends well through this season, whether you yourself have experienced postpartum or not.
To learn how to show up for your friends in their own postpartum journeys, allow this episode to be a jumping off point for conversations with your own sisters as you seek to love each other well through the many seasons of life.
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hey friends. Welcome to the, your sister Kimber podcast. My name is Kimberly Gilbert, and I'm so glad you're here. Friendship is hard enough when life is steady, right. But with the newborn phase comes not only adjusting to a new little life as part of your world, but also just the ups and downs of postpartum emotions. Healing and just the regular needs of life that keep on coming. My friend Jacqueline is a mama of three and just emerging from the newborn stage with her third. And today we're chatting about the loneliness that can come for mama's during this unique time. We talk about the challenges that keep us isolated. During the newborn phase, how friends can bless us and even what our friends who aren't mamas need to know to love on your friends during this time of need. Even if you haven't experienced it yourself. I hope our toxic day helps you grow authentic community around you and friendships that honor God and draw closer to Jesus. No matter what stage of life you're walking in right now. I wish we could grab coffee with Jacqueline for our talk today, but this is the next best thing. I'm so glad you're here, friend. Let's get started. Hey, Jacqueline
Jaclyn:Hey, Kimber.
Kimber:how are you? How are you
Jaclyn:I'm doing well. How are you?
Kimber:Yeah, I'm, I'm good. We have only had to reschedule this talk, I think three, two or three times. Yeah, Which makes sense because we're talking about the newborn stage today. Right. And so, although your excuse was related to that, you had some sleep regression drama that we worked through. Um, we just had the sickness that went through our house, but, we made it. I'm so excited to finally be
Jaclyn:the other side.
Kimber:yes, would you just go ahead and get started by introducing yourself to our friends listening?
Jaclyn:yeah. My name is Jacqueline. My husband's name is Alec. Um, we are both physical therapists. We met, I met Kimber and Sean in Alaska when we lived there, and we've since moved. I've got three little guys now, two boys and a little girl who's new who just had her sleep regression. So
Kimber:So fun.
Jaclyn:to talk about all the postpartum things and
Kimber:Yeah. You've done it three times now, which does it get easier or is it just different every time?
Jaclyn:Yeah, I think it's just easier, right? There's no rule that, like the first one has to be the hardest.
Kimber:Yeah.
Jaclyn:in fact, that was not my experience at all.
Kimber:Mm
Jaclyn:Micah was my first ahead, him in Alaska, um, in 2018. And, you know, he'd been there for two years and. We had a great community and an amazing church and fantastic employers and we just had tons of support. and so it was really, I'll say easy as if like any postpartum seasons ever easy, you know, um, we just had a lot of support. And then, um, Liam is my second, he just turned three, so I had Liam, in 2020. And
Kimber:Which wasn't
Jaclyn:you know, we had, and
Kimber:And then Yeah.
Jaclyn:yeah, so we had left Alaska in 2019 and moved, spent three months in two different states each. And then we had just bought a house in it's brand new town and, kind of gotten settled, like we found a church and we had been to a few sessions with a small group. And
Kimber:Hmm.
Jaclyn:Had Liam and two weeks later our lockdown started. And so, we were really fresh in the area and it was a very different experience. we had some family nearby, but you know, we weren't even really seeing them for a period of time. And so not having a lot of, community here, it was, that was very, very different.
Kimber:And I feel like if, cuz Judah wasn't born until like mid 2021. And so I feel like by then Covid had calmed down a little bit. how was it for you with a newborn navigating the beginning of Covid? Like, that sounds really scary to me. What was your
Jaclyn:Yeah, yeah. It was, that was a, that was a really hard time to have a baby, and I'm forever thankful. It wasn't my first. That learning curve of the first postpartum experience on top of, you know, the extra, isolation, physical and the extra anxiety of all of the unknown and having this tiny little vulnerable life to care for and protect and not having any idea what that looked like in that season. So that was just really interesting. It was really, it was really difficult. Yeah,
Kimber:I think that also being away from a lot of support and like in that season particularly, cuz like even family was a little far, was probably really challenging. Cuz when I had Judah, we were in Fairbanks and I felt similar in that stage. We had a few people, but we had just lost some friends and it, I just felt very, I felt very alone in that time. And our friends that we did have, we lived on a military base and none of them were military. And so it was like a lot of the time they wanted to help. But to me it felt like more of a burden to like go get a meal from them at the gate. Like go meet them at the gate. Then it would like, I'll just make dinner, you know, um, that kind of thing. And. Like the isolation of that stage. I feel like I, I felt it a little more than I think I would've if like we had been in, a community where we had more support,
Jaclyn:Sure.
Kimber:like we do now. and that's actually one reason that I was excited to talk to you about this, that I thought of you because, for me, during that time you were like such a gift to me. And I don't know, I don't know how much you know this, but, you just like texted me, I think, and we had been, we were really close when you guys lived in Alaska. We got to live on the same street, which was so fun.
Jaclyn:yeah. Right.
Kimber:but we hadn't talked a, a ton since you guys had moved and you texted me and I don't know what it was just. you know, right time, right person or what, but like, I just felt really comfortable talking to you, and I felt like your vibe was like, what I needed, like you know, it's like I think we, we all need different things, right? In that, in that time. And I think that your combo of levelheadedness but encouragement, but also like, realisticness, I guess, uh, was just a, a good combo and it was just what I needed. And so,
Jaclyn:you for sharing that.
Kimber:Yeah, it was such a gift to me during that time. and so as I was thinking about like, okay, loneliness, like the postpartum time was for sure one that felt lonely to me and I was like, okay, what helped during that time? And I was like, Jacqueline helped like, you know, you answered my questions. and we're just, yeah, you were a real blessing to me during that time. So I'm thankful for you for that. And as we're talking here, I was like, man, she's done it three times now and so I feel like you can probably speak to this. And so I'm excited to hear just your kind of perspective on this and um, just like how we can, love on our friends who are going through this cuz you did that really well for me, even though we weren't maybe in a super close, uh, relationship at that time. And so, So, yeah, I want to, I wanna dig into that a little bit with you tonight. I don't know about you. I sometimes feel like, I think one of the reasons that you reaching out to me and being there really presently, although via text, but as present as you could be from afar during that time, was really, it just felt really generous to me be was because, I think sometimes I feel this pressure of like, you know, if I'm not already like best friends, like the closest friend with a person, I'm like, they probably have someone else to meet this need. And so there's like a, a hesitancy maybe to like, reach out in that, or like a pressure to only care for my friends at like the level of care that they've indicated to me is appropriate or something for that time. And I think it's just an insecurity maybe. but like, do you ever experience that kind of Trying to figure out, you know, do I reach out to this person during this time? Should I, should I not? Like, what led you with me, I guess, in that moment to like, reach out? What, what was
Jaclyn:interesting. It's interesting that you say that because, I had, in my first postpartum season with Micah, I
Kimber:Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn:who I had been close with when we lived in New York State and kind of a similar situation. Then had gone a period of time where we didn't speak quite as much. We had moved around a lot. Um, and they, you know, had a couple kids before we had our first, but she, I'm thinking of one girl in particular, and she was so willing to, and it didn't feel in invasive in any way, but she was just so willing to ask the questions, like, how are you really, and like, are you nursing? And like, if you are, how is it going? Like that's the, the things that can be really difficult about that season that sometimes people don't really wanna, I don't know, like maybe just afraid to touch on in case like it's sensitive or, you know, and I, and
Kimber:To actually like go there and ask the question.
Jaclyn:Yeah. But to not be afraid. To just be like, how is it really going? And is there anything that you like. Wanted to talk about or is there anything you wanna ask me? And I think that's, so that's just huge. So I, I had that model to me, you know, in my first postpartum season. And so I think it's so important to be willing to just like, reach into the fog, like I think my experience as a new mom, like I was happy for anybody's time, anybody interested in seeing how I was doing and m an information gatherer anyway, so I love to hear about other people's experiences and I appreciated, you know, more seasoned moms being willing to reach out and say, Hey, how is it going? And do you wanna talk about things?
Kimber:Right, right. I am such an information gatherer too, and so I think that is something that I appreciate as well. I love how you said and I wanna touch on that a little bit. Like the idea of it not being invasive, but still like asking those more specific questions, like how have you seen it done well and like where do, where do you think the line is? Like where we air into invasiveness? Like how do you walk that line, do you think?
Jaclyn:Oh yeah, I'm not sure. I always do it perfectly. That's something that I'm still trying to learn and grow in, and it's different for each of our friends and sisters too, like that line. So being in community, being in a relationship, close enough, you know, we just talked about how you don't have to be close to reach in and love somebody, but like knowing them well enough at some point to. Know how they would need to be loved, I guess, and know, you know, I don't think you have to know anybody super, super well to understand what they might feel, is completely off bound you know?
Kimber:Yeah. Like just kind of their personality, like comfort level maybe.
Jaclyn:Yeah. but then just kinda like working into things slowly too, cuz some people, once you just start to ask like, how's it going? They'll be like, oh, it's so great. Or like, well, I'm really struggling. And, you know, some people are more willing to talk about things and ask questions and, just being there to listen genuinely, just listen to them where they're at, I think can lead you into where they're willing to go, I guess.
Kimber:right. And I suppose like there's always the possibility that they'll be like, I'm fine, thanks. Like, you know what I mean? And like that's a cue that we can take you know?
Jaclyn:Right.
Kimber:You know, because it's like, yeah, that's true. It's true. Right,
Jaclyn:they don't wanna talk about it. Yeah.
Kimber:right. And so I think it's like also being okay with that and not not needing anything back. Because that was something I think that I did really appreciate as well during postpartum time was like, if. Someone offered something. A lot of times I didn't feel like I had something to give back. Whether it was even just like a, Hey, I'm thinking of you and the best people who said that. I was like, I know if I don't ever text them back, they're, they still meant it, you know, like they don't need the validation, um, of, oh, thank you so much for checking on me, whatever. but like to just be able to offer our support to the people in our lives in that time without expecting anything back from them. And then if they want to like, you know, open up to us, it just sort of clicked for me to do with you then great. Like, we can be there, but to not expect that to happen or be offended, you know, if it doesn't, I think can help Protecting against that too. So you said that like your first two postpartum times were pretty different, mainly circumstantially, right? Like kind of based on, the support that you had, where you were at, what was going on just in the world even. Um, what about with your newest one? What has your, your postpartum time been like with her? Or how was it like with her?
Jaclyn:so Naomi was born in the same place that Liam was. We've been here now almost three and a half years, and. So fast forward from being fresh and brand new in our life group and our church, and we've spent, two and a half more years building into, um, our community here. And it was really night and day. And some of that I'm sure is due to the fact that, like you alluded to with Judah, like Covid was not like, it's here still, it's a thing, but it's not the way it was in the beginning. Um, so this was a very different experience because we had more community developed and. You know, with Liam, I really had a bit of bitterness, I, we had had Mike and Alaska away from a lot of my, you know, friends from growing up and my family and my parents and my sister and Alex family and everybody was back here. And so when we had made the decision that it was right to move and then we're expecting another, it was like so much excitement for doing, doing it all again with you know, with our families close and with our older friends. And, and then it just, I
Kimber:It didn't happen.
Jaclyn:Robbed of that. Yeah. In some ways. And so, no, it didn't, you know, ruin the experience, um, the joy that comes with a new baby, but there was just, there was just a lot of layers to that one And so, having the chance to have everybody more involved this time around, it's not necessarily been easy. She's a different baby. And so it's not all circumstantial, right? Like, it's not just about what's around us. Um, and also going from two to three has been, a very different experience than zero to one or one to two. And everybody has their opinions about what's easiest and all that. But,
Kimber:yeah.
Jaclyn:somewhere, somewhere in the middle, I guess, because it
Kimber:Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn:maybe as simple as it was with Micah, but definitely not so isolating and fearful in some ways as
Kimber:Right. Yeah. I can imagine. how do you think it's impacted you? Like now that this is your third time going through that, almost aside from like uniqueness of baby and like uniqueness of circumstances, but like for you, just as a person, you know what I mean? Like you as a mom, like this is your third time doing something that's really hard and, And also like incredible, but like, just wild that that's, you know, what women go through. Like, it's crazy to me. how do you think that you are like different this time around, you know, almost like outside of circumstances even?
Jaclyn:Yeah. I was thinking about this a little bit earlier and how the postpartum season this time around felt different. Because it's not like in isolation,
Kimber:Hmm.
Jaclyn:it's contiguous with motherhood now. It's not like I have two others that I'm caring for and loving on. And so it's not, I guess, such a clear period of like still a time period. I'm not describing it well,
Kimber:but it's not like, everything stops,
Jaclyn:right, exactly. And there's no like sleep when the baby sleeps and like
Kimber:Right,
Jaclyn:take this amount of time and just like heal and rest and it's like, just doesn't, it's not like that after the first time
Kimber:Yeah, yeah,
Jaclyn:yeah, just figuring out what that looks like and how to still get quality time with both of my boys while still being. Responsible primarily. Well, I talked to you some about the whole bottle refusal bit. So being exclusively irresponsible, you
Kimber:Yes, yes,
Jaclyn:Naomi and also wanting to bond in the same way with her that I did with the boys. But like the reality is there's only 24 hours in a day
Kimber:yes.
Jaclyn:um,
Kimber:of
Jaclyn:more little people needing Yeah, it's more little people needing me, so, It's hard to compare the first postpartum season to the current, even though it's the same experience in a lot of ways. I'm just different.
Kimber:But it's so different. Yeah. And you're a different person as well, right? Hmm. Yeah. it's interesting to me too, like how like all the, the ways that we tell first time moms to like, take care of themselves, are sort of not applicable um, this, that second and third time. So like, how have you, Jacqueline, is it like a, just make it through or like, have you, found any ways, or like how do you kind of take care of your heart and like maintain steadiness, you know, with you and just. Balance in your life, you know, as a human being who needs, like, has needs and needs, like, you know, quiet time and like sleep and, you know, self-care. Like, is that just like a pause for you, you know what I mean? Or does it look just different and smaller and briefer Maybe? Like what have, how have you learned to kind of take care of yourself in this
Jaclyn:Yeah. I think you just hit on it perfectly like I'm learning, I'm still learning and still growing each time. how to like advocate well for myself and what I need. Cuz sometimes it's easier to just like, put your head down and do, do, do and then find
Kimber:Like, I'm just gonna get through this. Right.
Jaclyn:Right. and I, I recently heard somebody talk about, they called the lie of perfection and how it robs us of progress. And this is like, you know, if I can't have an uninterrupted 30 minutes or an hour of quiet time and prayer, like why bother? I'm not even gonna start. Or like, if I can't stick perfectly to this workout plan, like it doesn't even make sense. Like why try, why try? Like I'm learning how to use small pockets of time in my day intentionally. Whether that's getting quality time with my boys, like, you know, the gauging who needs what and when, like, and where my tank is at. Like, just do my kids need me
Kimber:Which isn't gonna be the
Jaclyn:More than Right. Exactly. Yeah. and asking Alec to help me see when I need, what I don't maybe know that I need yet. You know, like, uh, can you just gimme, gimme a little bump and say like, please go take a walk or something like that. If you see that that's something I need and I'm like not recognizing it, you know, so,
Kimber:And that can feel so hard in the moment too. like, like, what are you saying,
Jaclyn:right. I'll dare you. How dare you care for me. It's so true though. Yeah. So just, just like releasing, my schedule and the desire for like, things to go a certain way and what I think. Perfection looks like in the season, like just, it's kind of a minute to minute assessment of like, who needs what and when can I fit in what I need to nourish my soul, you know?
Kimber:Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that is such, man, it sounds really hard, but probably a good exercise for those of us who really like, control and structure and
Jaclyn:Yep.
Kimber:I think the thing that always comes back to me with my relationship with God is like trust and letting go of control. And so, I'm sure that motherhood is a way that he is working that out in me. I'm
Jaclyn:Yeah. Leaning into it and just experiencing the growth of
Kimber:Yeah.
Jaclyn:being pushed outside
Kimber:Right. Right. And not always having things the way I want them. even too. Yeah. You mentioned like allowing your spouse to care for you, which makes me think of our friends, like how we allow our friends to care for us in this season. And so I would love to hear your side of maybe this time a little more. You said you've been with community, a little bit more than you were able to with Liam, and then also maybe with Micah, you know, how did people bless you most during your postpartum time? Like thinking really practically here too, like, how can we lean in to support our friends during this time in a way that is most loving, most helpful. I think that depends a bit on the person, like you said. I think that's really important to remember. but I think there's also probably some trends that we can see, of how we can like lean in here and support people through this really unique time. So what comes to mind for you there? Like what blesses you most from your friends when you're in the, the newborn stage, would you say?
Jaclyn:Um, I think for me it's time is a big one. so after I had Micah, um, we were living in Eagle River and I had a dear friend who didn't have kids yet. She has two of her own now. Um, and she worked on base and as a nurse. And, um, at least weekly, sometimes more, would reach out to me and just be like, Hey, can I stop in on my way home from work and bring cookies? Or can I come and like, Have iced tea with you on the deck, and she would come and spend her precious time with us. And since she's had her own kids, many times she has come to me and said, I just can't believe I didn't do more for you. I had no idea what you were going through. I just, but she, I didn't feel like that. Like
Kimber:yeah. You felt like it was such a, yeah.
Jaclyn:she was blessing me coming and like loving on Micah and just bringing a smile and spending time with me. So, and that's, you know, maybe like a, a specific person, love language kind of thing. But I just, um, that was really precious and we have such
Kimber:Yeah.
Jaclyn:that time. Um, and even now as it's gotten busier and, many of my friends here now have kids also. And so it's not, you know, time is a. A premium when you're caring for little people, Um, so even something just as small as feeling seen, like a text message like, Hey, I was thinking about you, or I saw this and it's made me think of you. Or How did so-and-so's appointment go or whatever. Just knowing that you're being thought of, and that someone's taking the time to either drop by with a meal or coffee or something as simple as just sending a message saying, thinking about you,
Kimber:Yeah.
Jaclyn:a meal provision has been huge for us. Just huge. and I'm someone who likes to cook, but where that time just doesn't seem to be there. It's just, that's such a practical way to. love on a whole family too, you know, bringing nutritious homemade food or not so nutritious, favorite takeout, like whatever it is. Um, and providing that is just, that has been a huge blessing for us too in all of, all of my experiences with postpartum,
Kimber:I think it's really good that you mentioned, well, the quality time thing might just be like some people's thing, but like, you know, the concept of love languages, right? Like, that, those apply to our friendships too, like how we receive love from our friends. And so I, I feel like it's like the newborn stage is just what you know. about how to care for your friends. They're just needier during that time. It's like their needs are just heightened. So whatever, you know, blesses them. Normally. how can you heighten that in like your attention? Maybe, but not in, maybe, uh, like how much it is for, like, what I mean by that is like your friend came by consistently, like regularly, but it's not like she stayed for hours. right? Am I understanding that like, Right. Because as you say, like time is a premium, but it's like, you know, so how can I like maybe intensify my care but in a way that isn't burdensome? Um, like that is, is really beautiful. Like for me, I think that I feel really loved when my needs get met by my friends and like, you know, maybe that's like, you know, need for company or something, but maybe it's also just like, yeah, like I need dinner tonight and I don't have the energy or time to do it. and so those kind of like tangibly meeting that really blesses me. But it's like, it's just such a time when I think you don't have a lot to give back. And so I think whatever it is, like, you know how to love on your friend doing it with. Like zero expectations back for affirmation or like encouragement, like, man, Jacqueline, I took a meal to a girl who just had a baby the other day and she's a rockstar. She wrote me a thank you note, I think within like two days. And I was just like, girl, you're incredible. Like I wouldn't have even thought to
Jaclyn:know. Like please don't spend your time writing me.
Kimber:Oh man. Different again, different love languages, But I was like, wow, you're amazing. But like, I think, you know, those kind of things can't be like, we can't expect that, right? Like because, and there'll be a day when you know your friend isn't as needy again. Of course. Like, but like what an honor to give like extra attention. to your friend during that time, whatever it is. So I love that. One other thing that I remember really distinctly from my postpartum time that blessed me was, I'm kind of a scaredy cat. Like I'm a chicken and, um, adventure doesn't really, like, I enjoy adventure. Uh, if I feel safe, it, it doesn't like excite me to be in danger. And with a newborn, everything felt dangerous to me. and so, right. Yes. Did, have you heard that deal about the amygdala, your fear center of your brain growing? Oh my gosh. I try to tell that to every friend I meet who's a new mom, because friends listening, if you don't know when you get pregnant, have a baby. Your amygdala, your fear center. can grow up to 30% bigger. Like it's biological that you will have more fear as a mom. And so, you know, and it's like we learned to manage that, I think, and it changes, but like, that is just a fact. That's what happens. And so, so it's like combating that. And I had a couple friends who were really intentional with me about like, helping me get out of the house, like with itty bitty baby, and like, okay, we're gonna go on an adventure and that adventure is going to get ice cream. Like you know, we're like going for a walk at the lake. Like it's the, the scale was not large, but it was still like having a friend to do that kind of thing with it made me feel more brave. And so that was something that really blessed me was like, okay, like I see so-and-so doing this, like, or they're gonna do it with me. And so, Not feeling as, I think alone in, in trying to conquer the obstacles, but having someone was like, yeah, like I'll go get ice cream with you. You know? It's not a big deal to me, but like, sh I know it's a big deal to you, you know? So do you feel like you experience that with First Baby, it's probably different after you've had one, like, but just the newness of it with Micah, did you experience that like struggle to get out and go do things? Or was that not as much your challenge? And if not, what would you say was like the biggest challenge for you with your first postpartum time? What felt the hardest?
Jaclyn:Oh gosh. this is probably mostly circumstantial. Again, because of where we lived on Hannah Jane there in Eagle River and where our clinic was, where Alec was working. I found it easy to get out actually because everything was so walkable.
Kimber:Yeah,
Jaclyn:it was. Less than half a mile to get to the clinic where I knew Alec was and I was welcome there because I was
Kimber:yeah. You worked there
Jaclyn:you know, a full-time employee before I had Micah and, so many
Kimber:that was like a close
Jaclyn:safe.
Kimber:yes. Yeah.
Jaclyn:place. that and having like four coffee huts I could walk to from the house,
Kimber:yes. God bless Alaska.Yay.
Jaclyn:right. Pop'em in the stroller and get out. and that, and like leads me to think about the way that my experience with Naomi has been different than the boys. Cuz Micah and Liam were born, birthdays are just four days apart. So end of February, beginning of March, and so in Alaska, coming out of the darkness, coming
Kimber:Yes.
Jaclyn:the warmth
Kimber:Yes.
Jaclyn:Just kind of, kind of just as like the fog is clearing from that immediate postpartum newborn stage. That was huge. And having Naomi in November,
Kimber:right. Going into the
Jaclyn:dark as Alaska here it was, it was hard.
Kimber:Still winter. Yeah.
Jaclyn:No. Yes. Not my favorite thing because also having two other kids to like bundle, before you get outside, you can't just be like, okay, out the back door like
Kimber:right? Popper in the car seat, like, yeah.
Jaclyn:yeah. it's so like bundling the newborn, but bundling the other two and then like hoping that you get more than five minutes of happy kids outside
Kimber:55 minutes later, we're finally ready to go outside for five minutes. Like
Jaclyn:Yeah, So, that changed the experience very much in terms of how easy it was for me to get out and. Be brave enough to take, you know, all of them by myself. Um, so that was a challenge this time. That wasn't as much the first time for me.
Kimber:Yeah. Hey, Fred, forgive me for taking a quick moment in this conversation to ask a favor of you. I hope my conversation with Jacqueline is blessing you today. And if so, as you take a moment to rate and review the show on apple podcasts. Reviews are so helpful in bringing new friends to the show. And I love reading what is blessing you from the podcast? You can find the leak to leave a review the description of this episode. So thank you so much for taking a second to do that. And it let's get back to the show. Would you say that you have experienced loneliness during the newborn stage particularly, and if so, what has that looked like for you? Because isolating, I think for sure. How do you think like loneliness plays into that or, or did it for you?
Jaclyn:You know, I can see the way that God, the ways that God has provided for me in each of my postpartum seasons, and it's been different. but after Liam, I definitely felt loneliness. We had, you know, moved to this new place and I didn't have as many relationships to, experience in person. But I had a very good friend who, she lives in Michigan and she had a baby her first, just a few months after I had Liam. And having that shared experience, like on steroids, you know, because of all of the newness and the fear, the start of the pandemic.
Kimber:Yeah.
Jaclyn:Relationship was just such a blessing to me because we were able to, um, we talked all the time, we were reading the Bible together and, just encouraging one another, constantly having that shared stage, but
Kimber:Yeah.
Jaclyn:me feeling like trying with all my might to like speak love and truth into her having her first baby in that season too. And just like, it's gonna be okay, this is gonna end at some point or it's going to taper, right. And like, you're gonna get through this and it's gonna be
Kimber:get better. Yeah.
Jaclyn:Yes. you know, I f I find that, sometimes when I am struggling or I'm feeling just really turned inwards, like one of the best ways to kind of snap out of it is to like, Somebody else to focus on, right? Like find somebody else to serve.
Kimber:true. Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn:also, a really just like constructive way I think, that God gave me to like, process through what was happening and
Kimber:Yeah, because you can pour into her. Yeah.
Jaclyn:Yeah.
Kimber:Hmm. I love that. like one of the most powerful things that can combat our loneliness is like moving towards people rather than just staying in that isolation and wallowing in it, you know? And, yeah.
Jaclyn:I think Satan really wants us to believe that we're alone, you know? And he'll really like, Nurture that fear in us, that nobody understands exactly what we're going through and our experiences are truly ours. And that, nobody can relate. And so just having that awareness of God has designed us for community, we're supposed to be doing this together no matter what season we're in, whether it's a season of heartache and loneliness and drought or joy. And so it's hard in the moment, you know, but seeing that and calling it out, like, no, I'm not gonna accept this.
Kimber:Yeah.
Jaclyn:And, letting people reach in and bless you. And at the same time, as much of a struggle as it can be is trying to initiate contact and trying to like, Recognize what you might need at the time and figure out who speaks life into you and truth over you, and like let them do that,
Kimber:Yeah. You said that like, you know, that fear of like, no one can relate to my unique situation because it is like, it's all different for us. Like at the very least, like all of our, you know, babies are different. All of our experiences with birth are different, like feelings about it are certainly different, you know, and, I think it's the difference between, like, I may not understand. how you're feeling exactly in this moment, but I can still relate to you. Or even if I can't even take that step and I, I actually can't relate to you. That doesn't mean that there isn't like value in your relationship with that person. Like one group of people that I'm thinking about with this conversation is when you have friends who have not gone through, you know, the newborn phase, like friends who don't have kids yet. those friendships are still valuable, to us during this time. But I feel like the enemy, at least before I had kids, when I would have a friend who had a baby, what I would hear, I feel like was. Oh. Like, because you don't know what she's going through. Your friendship is not valuable to her here. And like, I might be able to bring her a meal, but that's about all I have to offer her. And I just think that that's so not true. um, having like gone through it now, like my friends who don't have kids are such a blessing to me. One, because they have a lot, you know, different freedoms that, friends who have kids don't necessarily have, like, that is different and you can like, they can love on me in ways that my friends with kids can't, you know? And so to me I'm like, why was that something that I believed? But it's totally the enemy trying to, you know, make me feel insecure and believe that that friendship is somehow stunted because we don't have a shared experience anymore. But man, I don't think, I don't think that's true. So, How have you seen, like, your relationship with friends who don't have kids, how have they blessed you, through your time as a mom?
Jaclyn:I'm so grateful for friends who don't have children yet who are still wanting to spend time with me. Like,
Kimber:Yes. A
Jaclyn:too that I'm like, again, back to the love languages, but like the, the, the time spent to communicate, like You know, you were, you were saying having that insecurity as someone who hadn't yet gone through the experience and having kids, but from the side of having
Kimber:Yeah.
Jaclyn:and still desiring time with friends who don't, that insecurity of like, oh, am I,
Kimber:You don't wanna hang out with me anymore,
Jaclyn:Yes. To like, to work around my kids' schedules or to like, whatever, be patient, like to come to me because my baby might wake up 40 minutes into the night. Like, am I, yeah. Like, am I still valuable enough to you
Kimber:Hmm.
Jaclyn:make that work? And, that's going back to Jackie is my friend who visited me. You know, it's like, that was, I think, why that was such a powerful state. To me of her, just the fact that she wanted to spend time with me and like my four month old, like as opposed to rush home and like go for a hike or I don't know, things that at the time to me would've maybe, again, this is a lie, would've brought more value to her life. Clearly she didn't see it that way,
Kimber:right. Yeah, absolutely. For the friend I was talking about who like, you know, made me get out and like, we went and started to do things that made me feel like, okay, I can do this. Um, same thing. She didn't have kids and she's. a awesome adventure lady. Like she could, go do lots of other way cooler things, then spend her time doing that. And so it, was such a gift to me because it was like, okay, I know this is not cool and probably not very exciting for you, but like, yeah, it shows love and like, ah, man, just rec receiving like that is something that I feel like when you're not in a time of need, you don't have to experience the humility of that as much because it's like you can meet someone where they're at, you know? And like you can go do the things, but it's like when you're in this time when you don't have the ability to do that in the same way and someone still comes and meets you there, even though you know that they could be doing a lot of other things. Yeah. It's like, it's love. It's love, it's cool. So, Jacqueline, as we kind of wrap up our conversation here, I feel like we have three groups of people that I would love to hear kind of just your encouragement for here. Like, the first one that I think of is a friend listening that we were just talking about who doesn't have her own kids. She's not, uh, gone through the postpartum time. What do you think that she needs to know to be encouraged to keep showing up for her friends as they have kids and walk through that postpartum time? Like what would you say to her to encourage her in that effort?
Jaclyn:Yeah, I'll go back to what you kind of said about knowing our friends well enough to know how to love them before this season. Similarly, like knowing the gifts of love and service that you have, even if you can't understand their season in an its entirety, like trusting that God will use what you have to bless them when you have the heart to do that. Um, don't be afraid of the crazy, don't be afraid of the hormones, really. They speak loudly sometimes and
Kimber:Yeah.
Jaclyn:just, don't feel inadequate to love a friend who's going through this season just because you haven't experienced it yet.
Kimber:Yeah. Because they have so much to give. They really do. Yes. You have so much to give as a friend, just not even, yeah. Anything to do with your circumstance. Yeah. I love that. What about for our friend listening though, who has been through it? Because I think it can also be on the flip side, it's like we talked a little bit about that fine line of like being invasive, you know, or offering too many opinions, you know, do you think we. Moms who have gone through the postpartum phase, what do we need to like remember to love our friends well, who are going through it for their unique experience. You know what I mean? Because like you said, like every single experience of yours was different, not only because of the differences of baby and you, but like circumstantial. Like, you know, how could we possibly speak into this situation because it's all so different. But I think we can, so what do you think we need to remember when we have gone through it?
Jaclyn:Yeah. I think just, it sounds so basic, but just listening genuinely, like we talked about, being information gathers. Just because I wanna hear about everybody's experiences and their opinions doesn't mean that everybody wants to hear about my experience and my opinions. So like, recognizing that their season. The second, third, fourth, however many times likely isn't gonna be like any of their own prior experiences, let alone my experience. And
Kimber:Right?
Jaclyn:just being an ear, I guess, and like, don't be afraid to ask, like, would it be helpful to hear about my experiences or do you just, should I be a listening ear? Can I bring coffee? Do you wanna just talk like, and not, I don't, yeah. I don't know. Just, releasing the pressure of trying to fix things. Um, just because you have experience with it doesn't, Doesn't mean that's productive or what they're
Kimber:right. I'm such a natural fixer, and so that has been such an exercise for me, like learning to just ask that question, like you said, like would it be helpful for me to share my experience here or. would you just like me to listen here or are you looking for solutions? Like, you know, whatever it is. I think just like, yeah, asking that question really, like frankly can be just wise, because then I think we're less likely to offer unhelpful, unhelpful advice. Yeah.
Jaclyn:And sometimes I think they might not even really know what they're looking for until maybe you offer that clarified question that's like, oh, actually
Kimber:Yeah. I would love to hear that. Or
Jaclyn:me about it? Yeah. Or like, actually, yeah, maybe you're right. I just need you to listen to me as
Kimber:Right,
Jaclyn:or whatever.
Kimber:right. That's good. And speaking of the blubbering, um, what about our friend who they're like, yeah, like I am in this right now, like I am in the postpartum season. My brain is crazy, my emotions are crazy. Like it's all over the place. You know, and everyone has different opinions about the newborn stage, right? Like my, I guess if I seem like I'm talking a little, like negatively about it, it's because I did not really like the newborn stage I love my baby, but I like him more now. It's like, that's just the fact and, and everyone's, everyone's experience is different. Like, I know lots of people love the newborn stage. And so,
Jaclyn:Mm-hmm.
Kimber:I think I, I tend to maybe talk down on it a little bit just because that was my experience. So, you know, just recognizing that everyone's is different. But, um, regardless we can all agree. I think that it is wild. Like it's all over the place, whether you love it or you, you hate it. Like it's all over the place. What would you say tonight to encourage a friend who's in it and they just are feeling really lonely and like isolated and just like, man, this is my reality right now and I just need someone. how would you encourage her today? What do you think?
Jaclyn:Yeah. I mean, this is hard in its own way because sometimes it can just feel like another, another thing you have to take care of. But, having done it three times, like just reach out. Like, think of somebody who makes you feel loved and safe and someone who speaks truth into your
Kimber:Hmm
Jaclyn:And like, just be vulnerable or don't even at first, like just start the conversation. Just reach out. let somebody love on you. Community is huge like this. We've just been talking about how, we're just, we're not meant to do this alone. And also it's okay to feel. One moment, like I love this newborn stage and they're so squishy and perfect and I never want it to end. And then the next moment like, this is so hard. And those feelings can coexist.
Kimber:Which is
Jaclyn:it's okay. Yeah. It's okay if you're like, this is so great. But also I can't wait till it's over
Kimber:Yeah.
Jaclyn:Um, and so yeah, I know I hesitate to kinda hesitate to say that because it just feels like, oh, it's just more work to like be the one to initiate. So I guess it's kind of a twofold answer. Speaking to everybody else too, like if you know somebody who just had a baby in the last few months or a year even, I know where they live, how close you are to them. Like, we've talked about this, please just reach out and. Let them know you're thinking about them and see how they're doing. And because sometimes it's just hard being the one in it when you're like thinking about when you need to feed the baby next and how many dirty diapers they've had and what your toddler's doing in next room. It's hard to be like, what can I do to help take care of myself? Like,
Kimber:yeah. We need those
Jaclyn:to have people.
Kimber:Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn:to speak truth over you and,
Kimber:Mm-hmm.
Jaclyn:um, something else I feel just kind of strongly about because it's been very true for me and all of mine, and I think it's, obviously, it's not uncommon because it's biological, but hormones are real and the swings and the fear and the elation and like just you feel crazy. Right. Um, I guess just reassurance that like, It's normal and it's okay. And like your emotions don't have to rule you. It feels like they do. But no storm lasts forever and your body's doing what it needs to do and so you will feel equilibrium once again.
Kimber:And I think that's such like the help of connecting with someone because it's like a reminder of like, it's like you see the level and you're like, okay, that's the, the standard there. Or like that's, what the level is. And it's not to like compare yourself to them, but it's just to be reminded that like, you know, sometimes what seems like reality, at least to me, what seemed like reality at 1:00 AM when I was like, I've been trying to go to bed for five hours, you know, Like, that may not be reality. What feels like my emotional reality there. And so just to be reminded that, it's okay, but it also, like what I'm thinking in this moment might not be true, you know? And so to, yeah, to have someone to like speak that truth over you and remind you that what you're experiencing is normal, but like what is true in the midst of that can be so powerful, um, to just like help you. Hold on. Yeah. Absolutely, man. Jacqueline, I love talking to you today about this. There's, something just really special I feel like about, being able to look back on a stage and realize like, the people that got you through it. And that is just like the gift of reflection, I think, and to be able to look back. And so, um, I'm so thankful for how you helped me through my postpartum time and, um, I love what you shared about those who helped you through yours. And I just am praying for friends listening that they would, be able to either reflect on the people who helped them through theirs and like tell them because it's such a blessing to hear that kind of thing, I think. Um, and if, and for those who are in it to lean on your people because man, that's the way through it. Yeah. man. Jacqueline, thank you so much for talking
Jaclyn:And thank you for having me on
Kimber:I loved it. Yeah, it was so fun. Well, I'm gonna let you go cuz it is nighttime for you. You got that baby to bed, And I'm gonna let you go. Enjoy your well earned, rest. So thank you so much, friend. Fred. I'm so glad you could join Jacqueline and I this week on the, your sister Kimber podcast. Loli is going to be present at any season, but thinking about how we can love our friends. Well, in particular seasons can be such a blessing. I think. And if we're thinking really practical for blessing Fred's in a particularly stressful season My new digital resource, maybe just the tool you need to get the details. It's called 20 facts to know about your friends. And these are the kinds of things that are just going to give you the fodder to bless and love on them. In tangible ways. It's a free PDF. You can download it either print or text to a friend to fill out for you. Then save those ideas at your phone under their contact card for when you need it. You can get this resource on my website, which is linked in the description of this episode. And if you haven't yet joined my newsletter crew, will you visit your sister kipper.com to subscribe? When you subscribe, you get my weekly newsletter directly to your email inbox, with a preview of what will be featured on the podcast that week, plus a link to this month's blog posts and some other resources and tips to help you grow friendships, honor God and diary closer to Jesus. I hope it blesses you. Fred. Thanks so much for being part of this could be ditty until next time. It is your sister.
