Your Sister, Kimber
Your Sister, Kimber
Ep.50 United but Unique + Kirstin Tatagiri
Kimber talks with artist and poet Kirstin Tatagiri about the challenges that can arise when pursuing authentic friendships from within the context of a marriage relationship. Kirstin shares from the perspective of her unique marriage story about how she encountered loneliness and massive opportunities for growth in her own newly-wed season, both within her marriage and in how she did friendship. Despite diverse stories, Kimber and Kirstin find commonality in how marriage, particularly within the context of friendship, can image the unity and distinctness of the Trinity in our everyday lives.
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hey friends. Welcome to the, your sister Kimber podcast. My name is Kimberly Gilbert, and I'm so glad you're here. Today, we are talking about the challenges of growing friendships while married from navigating the shift of friendship while single to then maintaining old friendships and growing new ones once married. There's for sure a learning curve here. I'm excited to talk about this with my friend Kiersten. She's a poet artist and musician with a heart for DCIS, and I loved hearing more of her story. And how she sees the image of God mapped onto our friendships and our marriages. Whether you're married now and somewhere along the learning curve of doing friendship while married or you just hope to be someday. I hope our conversation today helps you grow authentic community in your life and friendships that honor God and draw you closer to Jesus. I wish we could dig into this with Kiersten over coffee today, but this is the next best thing. I'm so glad you're here, friend. Let's get started. Hey Kirsten. Good. Mor No, not good morning for you. It's evening for you. It's good afternoon for me.
Kirstin:Yes.
Kimber:Is that right? You're on the East coast, is that right?
Kirstin:Yeah. And I didn't realize until I saw the schedule that like Alaska had a different time zone. So it makes sense when sometimes it seems like you or Allie, who I met you through, are posting really late. I'm like, why are they posting so late at night? I'm like, oh, it's, they're like, time is different from mine.
Kimber:Yeah, it's four hours different. And I have a couple friends, on the East Coast who used to live here. And so it's like such a different thing because it's not just like, oh, we're a few hours off. We're like in a different part of our day, you know? And it's, so, it's really strange. You don't really get used to it. I feel like it's like a couple hours. You might, it would be no big deal, but four makes a big difference. So, but thank you for, for joining me today. I'm so excited to talk to you. Will you go ahead and introduce yourself to our friends? Listening.
Kirstin:Yes, so my name is Kirsten and I'm Midwest, born and bred. So I'm on the East coast in eastern time zone, but it was not originally from here.
Kimber:were you originally from?
Kirstin:That's such a great question, which I never really know how to answer, which is why I always say Midwest born and bred because. I was born in Chicago and then my family moved to Northern Minnesota about as northwest as you can possibly go in the state. My dad was a pastor there, and then we were also in another town, six hours south for a year, and then moved to Northern Indiana, which was home for since I was about 13. But then I also lived overseas for a little while, and so they just say Midwest, cause
Kimber:Midwest. That's perfect. That's perfect. I'm originally from Kansas City, so that's why I asked, cuz I'm like, Ooh, where? So, yeah. Awesome.
Kirstin:So I lived overseas for a while and then I got married to my husband and that's when the east coast life started and I used to be a teacher. So I taught overseas and then came back, taught eighth grade in America and decided I did not wanna keep doing that.
Kimber:What did you teach? Art
Kirstin:I was an eighth grade language arts English teacher in Northern Indiana, so I was overseas. Was there for a year at the school and then met my husband that year and then moved out to Boston and he's in it. He's Indian. A lot of most Indians here are in it, and he was like, you're really good at talking. You should be a project manager.
Kimber:Oh wow.
Kirstin:do. Now, my title is Scrum Master, but I usually say project manager because no one really knows what a scrum master is unless you're in
Kimber:yeah, I just picture you like scrubbing things. I don't know, like literally, so that's probably not accurate.
Kirstin:But yeah, in terms of like, my other part of my life with like creative pursuit, so I've always been writing since I was a kid and poetry I think has always been my first love with creating, but I'm just a creative sometimes now what creating looks like. Finding a new recipe and trying it out and one day I wanna paint. I don't have time or the mental capacity to do that now, but one day Winston Churchill start at that later in life and he was actually really good. So there's definitely, even though I'm now an it, I cultivate that creativity outside of work because that needs to always keep going. Otherwise, a little part of me feels like it dies inside.
Kimber:Yes. I think that's a cool way to look at it cuz I think so often we get like kind of channeled into like, oh my passions have to come out through my work. And I think that's really cool when they do of course. But I love that you're like, okay, I can do something. In my work life and also do something just in my private life that is feeding that. So I think that's, that's really cool. If you could only like, pursue one creative avenue for the rest of your life. I know this is like a really awful question, but if you could only, what would be the one, the one thing
Kirstin:It would be creative writing. Before I met my husband, I was gonna go back and get a master's and have it in English. But the program I wanted to do, we could do like creative writing, like not minor cuz you don't really do minors and masters. But, and then I got married, you know, and went on a different track. But, but poetry and that creative writing is,
Kimber:Hmm.
Kirstin:it's my first love, I think, with the creative stuff. So if I only had to do one thing, it would be that.
Kimber:I love that. So I, I love the, like, broader definition of creative, not just like narrowing yourself into one. I actually used to be an English teacher too. I don't know if you knew that.
Kirstin:No
Kimber:yeah. I taught high school English. I did for six years, and I'm not now, but, um, maybe someday, who knows? But yeah, it, well, it was good. It was good. I, I enjoyed it while I did it. And then it was time to. toddler life, and I'm enjoying that stuff too. So it's cool that we get to, change who we are like or what we do, at least in the midst of that. And you're in toddler life too, right?
Kirstin:Just enterings. Yeah, so my son is 13 months, so we're entering that. He still like my baby, but I look at him and I'm like, you're not a baby.
Kimber:Oh, well, yeah, mine is like 22 months, so almost two. And it's definitely like over the last six, which is about that difference there. I feel like he's moved from like being like a baby who does some like. Toddler ish things to like, oh wow. Like you're a little dude. Like as, I don't know. It's crazy. I like see him walking around and I'm just like, wow, you're like a little boy. We were eating lunch at a restaurant the other day and you know, it's like there wasn't like a huge mess. Like, there was still a mess, of course, don't get me wrong, but like, he was just like, he had a little grilled cheese and he was just sitting there eating it and like looking around and I was like, whoa. You're like functioning right now. Like, this is amazing. It's like a, a glimpse, you know,
Kirstin:of the
Kimber:of what we'll be. Yeah. But is good. Oh, cool. Well, Kirsten, I was so excited to talk to you today. Um, when we kind of connected, I was like, wow, there's so many cool ways that we can, we get to work together here. And so I'm excited for that. Um, but today we're kind of zeroing in on some marriage stuff and we've been. On the podcast in a series on loneliness, and we're kind of getting close to wrapping it up in the next few weeks. And so when we were talking about just like the challenges that come with learning to navigate friendships in the context of marriage, I was like, oh my goodness. Can't believe we haven't talked about this. This would be a great thing to talk about. And so I was really glad when, when you brought that up because, It seems like it should be a given. Like, oh, like you get married and then like you still do friendship of course. But, but it does change and it, it shifts the way we do this. And so, I'm really excited to Yeah, hear your perspective on that and what your story was like through that. And man, just like preparing for our conversation was so interesting to me, like reflecting on this. my husband and I are celebrating 10 years in a couple weeks, which is just like kind of crazy to me and exciting. And so I feel like as I was kind of preparing for our conversation, I was just reflecting back on like, oh, like we have been doing this for a bit now. And um, yeah, it was just like cool to think back to how things changed when we first got married and like how we learned to navigate friendship and the different seasons of our marriage so far even. And so I'm excited to, to hear your side of it. So what has been kind of. Story with like marriage. Um, and then we can kind of get to how friendship challenges emerged from that. But yeah. What's your guys' story? A little bit.
Kirstin:So we met online a eHarmony, which I swore I would never do before I did. It. So in Korea, when I lived in Korea, I remember very distinctly telling my friends multiple times, I will never do that. I feel like I'm selling myself, like pushing my picture and saying like, oh, hey, this is me. Like come and get me. Like I just, ugh, the idea But like I didn't meet anyone when I lived in Korea. I didn't meet anyone when I lived in China. And then I came home and I was living, you know, northern Indiana and there weren't too many eligible bachelors around. And so I was like, what do I do? Go sit at the local coffee shop and hope someone trips over my feet and like proposes, you
Kimber:right. Totally.
Kirstin:and one of my friends from China, uh, she wasn't Chinese, but she was a foreigner like me over.
Kimber:Uhhuh.
Kirstin:Most of the, people who do work for the Lord there go to. Thailand for a lot of these like missionary retreats. And so she was there the year after I came home and she was like, Kirsten, there's so many girls here who met their husbands online a eHarmony, and they're really great guys who really love Jesus. I think you should try it. And I was like, oh man, maybe I should, because I really sense that I was supposed to come home a, my, my dad has Parkinson's, and so I wanted to be closer to family, but also I really felt ready. It was the first time in my life where I felt like I was ready to be married. There wasn't anything else I wanted to do as a single person that I always felt like I would wonder what would've happened if I would've done that thing. Like I had done all the things. I was like, I'm ready.
Kimber:Wow.
Kirstin:So I was on a couple dating sites, but then when on eHarmony, I remember very distinctly, like in church, my, my dad was having kind of a bad morning, so he was out in like the foyer and I had seen on my phone there was a, a deal, it was like 1299 a month and it's usually really expensive. And so I was like, dad, it's 1299 a month. He's like, that's like three coffees. Just do it. So
Kimber:Right.
Kirstin:And then met my husband, I think, I think I went on in like January and we met March 28th and we were very expedited. He's Indian, so Indian culture, you know, you have arranged marriages, like very quick. Things are normal for us Westerners, it's a little more strange, but I never wanted to date for a really long time. And there's, I, growing up my mom would talk about, you know, if you're waiting just to fall in love and stay in love forever, like you're never gonna stay married forever because.
Kimber:Hmm.
Kirstin:is hard. And so it's love is a commitment. And so we talked on the phone, you know, FaceTimed a lot, and then he came to meet me and my parents in Chicago a month later. And then he proposed a month later and I
Kimber:Wow.
Kirstin:he proposed in my classroom actually. So I don't think there was ever so many jubilant voices over someone being proposed to as in my classroom with 30 like 13 year olds.
Kimber:Oh, I bet they were so excited. Oh
Kirstin:Oh my gosh. They were like screaming. I have video coverage of like all these different angles. so that was really special. So, but then we got married September 1st and I moved out to Boston. So it was like five, five months, six months. So it was very fast. and I am a very, I still need my alone time for creating, but I am much more extroverted, much, much more than my husband. Like, we'll both acknowledge this, it's why it works, you know? And I think when I moved out to Boston, one thing I realized was in terms of friendships, everyone knew me as Isaac's wife, and I was trying to figure out who that was. Like, I'm a wife. I what? What does that mean?
Kimber:And so he already, he already lived in Boston, is that right? So he like had a community there. Mm. Yeah. And so you're coming into that?
Kirstin:Yeah. And. So that was, it was a, you know, starting to navigate just being married. And I think part of it, like again, we, we hadn't known each other that long, so there was a lot of getting to know each other that happened. But at the same time, I know people who dated their spouses for a long time and got married and still told me like, oh, there's still an adjustment period.
Kimber:Yeah, there
Kirstin:there's nothing like being married. Other than being married. And so I think, you know, even if we had known each other for longer, it still would've been hard, um, because it's just hard. It's one of those things, you can read all the books and try to prepare, but until you do it, you don't really know what you're getting into and you don't really know how to do it.
Kimber:Yeah. My husband and I dated for four years, and so like we met in high school and went through college and got married at the end of college, and so yeah, I kind of totally agree with that, that it's still just like, it's different because you're, you just, it's a shift I think from. Like, I am the one I rely on and I am the center of my universe, essentially, to like, oh, now like I'm supposed to share that with someone else. And that to me is like, yeah, that's like the one of the biggest shifts you make, you know, in your life. Other than like being, becoming a parent, I feel like. You know, that's the other really huge one where it's just like your focus changes and so yeah, it doesn't quite matter, I think, you know, how long you've known them. That's a part of it, but it's just the perspective shift of how you navigate your days and friendship of course, like is wrapped up in that. So how did, like when you were in Boston, do you feel like you eventually like figured out kind of The way to navigate through this and kind of stumbled your way through there. What did that kinda look like?
Kirstin:Stumbled my way through. There is a very good way to put it because I think at first, again, because I'm much more. I'm more extroverted. I process things like with people and I really only knew my husband. And you know, when you're first married, there's a lot of learning the other person, and sometimes they don't understand you and you don't understand them. And so I think there was a big learning curve for me of learning that. like, I would catch myself before I would say something to a friend. I'm like, is this okay for me to say? Because you also have now this other person that you're bound to, in a way, you're not bound to anybody else and you don't wanna say things that's going to, you know, harm their reputation. And my husband's a great guy, you know, but like, regardless of how great a person is, our sin comes out of marriage on both sides. And so, so there was definitely a learning curve for me of. Learning that there's of now a boundary with what I can share. Because before I would be an open book, there was just about anything
Kimber:Yeah.
Kirstin:anyone wanted to ask me about my life, I would share, you know? And I wouldn't even think twice, but there was that, okay, let me think about this. Is this o? Is this okay to share? Can I share this? And I think for me, because I'm more extroverted and. Never really had, not that I didn't have a filter, but that other person being their filter that wasn't there. I think it was really hard for me, but it was all stacked up on, on top of me being known as Isaac's wife. And I didn't really know who that was. I didn't have, I had a part-time job, but a lot of my days in those early months was just me in the apartment by myself cuz he would go to work and I think I was just, Lonely and I didn't, I was trying to figure out all this stuff, like my whole world had changed. And so I think there was a period where probably looking back, I should have told myself like, you're probably not gonna feel like yourself for a while. And that's okay because everything is changing and it's not supposed to feel the same because it's not the same anymore. and I think one thing that changed too was when I finally told my husband, I'm like, I really need to go just hang out with a friend, but I. I don't know which person talked to cuz I don't know who my friends are yet.
Kimber:Yeah. Yeah.
Kirstin:and he was really sweet. He's like, well what about this person? Like at church, cuz we, you know, went to a church. He had been going there before me and it was a great church. And he is like, well this person seems really nice, why don't you text her? And I ended up texting her and we had coffee and I was able to share with her too, just some of the things I was feeling in those early days of marriage. And, and I had also kind of told him, I'm like, I'm feeling like weird and I, I need to talk to a friend. I don't wanna like say things that you don't want me to say. And he is like, I mean, it's okay. You know, because he had, he would, he would have coffee with a friend and be like, yeah, you know, he says this about how we're learning each other and stuff. So I still remember like having coffee with her and her telling me all the things you're feeling and going through, like I still talk about these things with my husband. He's still learning how to respond to these things for me. And so, which again, I feel like in friendship, So much of what Satan wants to do with us when we struggle with things is to make us feel like we're the only one going through it. And it's rarely ever the case because we're so much more similar than we all like to admit, which is actually really good because then we can help each other through different seasons because we have people who've been there and can speak into our lives and be like, you're normal. It's okay. It's, it's really okay. You're gonna make it through.
Kimber:Yeah, I was talking to a friend the other day about, I don't even remember what the context was, but you saying that reminded me of you know, the idea that we think that our struggles are so unique to us and I think it's just because like they are in many ways, we have, unique people in our lives, unique challenges. Our lives are all different, and yet, Satan isn't creative, God is the creator, right? And so the enemy's not going to do anything creative in our lives. He's just gonna twist things It might be a few degrees, it might be a lot. But the good news in that, like you said, is like he's not gonna create something that we can't, find connection or hope from someone else in. You know, there's nothing new, that he can bring at us. And so that was just like encouraging to me to remember of like, okay, there's gonna be someone that. Probably the Lord's gonna put in my path to help me through that and help me figure out how I, in my own unique circumstances, can navigate this very familiar and constant, you know, thing among all of us that is challenging us. And marriage is like, Such a common one that we can, I think when we do reach out to others, because many people have gone through it, and you're right. Like, you're not the only one for sure. I'm interested about, um, to talk more about that idea of, the boundary of privacy and authenticity in marriage. Because, I mean, like I said, you know, we're coming up on 10 years and yet I still find myself. Struggling to walk that a little bit because I would say that I'm more like you, like I'm pretty open book, um, especially with like my trusted people, but the situation that I find in my life is like, I have some separate friendships where like, my friends don't know Sean super well. Um, it's almost like a problem in both situations because if they don't know your husband super well, like they're not also friends with him necessarily, then it's more of like, I don't wanna like throw him under the bus with them because, um, they don't have their own relationship to like bounce that off of. So all they're hearing is my portrayal of him, right. And I wanna, I wanna honor him in that. And the other side of it is like with my close friends who were Als who are also friends with him, you know, like couple friends and stuff. they're his friend too, and I don't wanna like hurt their friendship because of what I'm saying. And yet, we probably can both agree that it's damaging when you're not talking about. Like working through your, your struggles with people in your life. And so I think sometimes that can go, you know, there are some things that maybe should just go to a counselor or like a trusted mentor. But, yeah, like over the course of your marriage, what has kind of like learning that balance looked like for you? Because it sounds like that was something that came up right away.
Kirstin:Yeah, I think for me it was first having to tell my husband that like I really needed. Friends that I c like, and that when I would talk to friends, it's not me trying to throw him under the bus or disrespect him, it's just me needing to process certain things. And that being said, I think one thing I have learned is sometimes there are that you know, irritate me or I'm just having a bad day and I'm having a bad attitude and I shouldn't talk to anyone because. I think so often we, we, we cover ourselves with, I just need a vent about this. I'm like, no, we're actually complaining. Let's be real. We're complaining and we're not supposed to do that as Christians. And so the best piece of marriage advice I think I've ever gotten was from a lady who was in my parent small group when I was really little. She was single for most of her adult life. I think in her fifties, She finally got married for the first time. And when I turned 30, I asked people in my life to give me words of wisdom. So she wrote back a card, and one thing she said was, when there's hurt in your marriage, and again, this is like barring any abusive situations. So when there's hurt in your marriage, Go to God first with that process with him, and then go to your husband. And what I found was when I started doing that, a lot of times I would realize that maybe the root of why I was upset or the root of that irritation or whatever it was, wasn't actually my husband. It's me. It's something in me that was triggered because of something he said or And it was like I could work things out with the Lord first. And I think I think social media doesn't help with this as well because you can see so many people on social media saying like, I got married and then it was the best year of my life
Kimber:my life
Kirstin:life is so it's dreamy. And I'm like, okay.
Kimber:Okay. Good for you?
Kirstin:yeah, exactly. so I think it's separating like the, you know, highlights of social media and that we all hear too much of, I think sometimes. And the reality of like marriage is hard work.
Kimber:Hmm.
Kirstin:sometimes you just need to go to God with stuff and not to people first, so go to him first. But I will say like I, I have my closest friend from the time I've been in high school. We've kept in touch all the times I was living overseas and. been such a gift. We became moms within like six months of each other. We got married within six months of each other, and she has been such a blessing because I can say things to her. I think too, it's when you're processing, like I can acknowledge that I'm working through something without being specific. I can say I'm. I'm harboring anger in my heart towards my husband. Can you please pray for me without telling the whole story and the situation? Like a lot of times that doesn't need to be said. And those are the kinds of things that would make other people in your life who know you or don't know your husband. Like either think he's horrible or you know, or vice versa. If he's telling about you, they think you're horrible. You know, cuz I am, I'm a jerk a lot. So,
Kimber:No, I love that and I, the other thing that I think is really good about that is that. Like, yes, totally agree about the, only sharing like the details that need to be shared because that does like honor the privacy of like your challenges a little bit, but it also like is vulnerable about the situation in ways that your friend can pray for you or, you know, give you advice if you're looking for that. But the other thing I like about what you said is that it was like, I'm ha harboring anger in my heart as opposed to. can you believe what my husband just did? Or whatever, you know? which is probably more in that angle of like venting and just wanting someone to affirm your frustration or your anger or whatever. And that's not working towards restoration. And so it's probably. Not ultimately what is best for us. And so I love the the like acknowledging your part in it and then asking your friend to come alongside you and, and help you with that. And that probably is a product of processing with the Lord. Because I think so often in our, in our struggles, at least I am quick to like identify what my husband is doing wrong. Um,
Kirstin:Yep.
Kimber:And slow to identify what, what my part is in it. And so, but I feel like when we submit those things to the Lord, he does like reveal those things to us. And at least, like, even just like calm down a little bit, you know, and, and, take a step back. And so then that can allow us to come to our friends with maybe a more like I statement approach. And focusing up from that side. I love that. That's really helpful. I feel like,
Kirstin:Yeah, and I think too, For me in marriage, I like to say marriage for me has been like a instant pot pressure cooker. It's just made all my sins squeeze out and it's really ugly. And my closest friend, actually, she, when we were talking once about, you know, learning to be married and navigating all this, she's like, yeah, It's really easy for us, like you're saying, to see something in our husband's life and be like, wow, that sin, oh my goodness, how could you do that? But for us, we think our sin is cute. We're like, but I do this. But it's just like cute. It's like this thing I struggle, it's this thing I struggle with. And really it's like, It's sin, it doesn't matter. You know, we say sometimes I'm struggling and it's kind of a coverup for like, I'm harb, I'm, I'm nurturing this thing that I've been doing for a long time, but I'm not willing to let it go and really get to the root of it. And those little things are so often I think in marriage will come and just start to destroy things so that centering on the Lord and then looking at, what am I doing wrong in this situation or how am I sitting against him? Has been super helpful with, with filtering and then yeah, with
Kimber:Hmm. I love that. That's so good, He friend, forgive me for taking a quick moment in this conversation to ask a favor of you. I hope my conversation with Kiersten is blessing you today. And if so, would you take a moment to rate and review the show on apple podcasts? Reviews are so helpful and encouraging new friends to find the show. And I love reading. What is blessing you from the podcast? You can find the link to leave a review and the description of this episode. So, thank you so much for doing that today. Okay. Now back to the show. how long were you guys in Boston?
Kirstin:We were in
Kimber:season last?
Kirstin:2018 until 2020, so we moved in the thick of Covid. We didn't get to say goodbye to like any of our friends except for a one couple, couple friend who had come and they like helped us pack our truck and stuff.
Kimber:oh my goodness. Wow. And that was, so then you started over in a new place during Covid,
Kirstin:We did, but my husband's family is in Northern Virginia, which is where we are. And so I, I do think, looking back in like the friendship realm, I think Virginia has been much easier for me to navigate than Boston because we both came here as new people. So again,
Kimber:Yeah.
Kirstin:Yes. Yes. And it was the first place we were here together. So, and at the end of Boston I did have, you know, like we had couple friends.
Kimber:Yeah.
Kirstin:I had my own friends. He kinda had his own friends. But then here it's been much more of couple friends because like, we have a house, we got a dog, now we have a child. And so life is just very different from being like newlyweds in, you know, a Boston apartment. Now we're like living in the country, quote unquote. I mean, you know, 15 minutes you can get to whatever you want.
Kimber:Right?
Kirstin:We have land. There's just, life is just so different. And so I think too now, because we're just more busy, I think I had a lot of time in those Boston days to like, Process everything I was feeling. And when I wasn't sure how to process that with other people, it just walled up inside of me and wasn't very pretty. And so, so now like starting over in Virginia and kind of working through those early years of marriage and like learning each other and breaking the shoe in so it's more comfortable, you know, um,
Kimber:Yeah.
Kirstin:I think friendships here, it still was tricky cuz it was covid, but that was hard for the whole world. So,
Kimber:Right. At least it was, yeah, a shared, shared struggle. For
Kirstin:Yeah. And so like friends that we have here are mostly a couple friends that we've met together and then, have, have nurtured those friendships together.
Kimber:Yeah, I think that the whole idea of like couple friends is something that is so important for our marriages, and I'm not sure we always talk about like how you get those or how you find those. I think that, you know, sometimes they just happen like, and, and like you're lucky and you happen to both like and connect with like the other couple. But I'm not sure that's always the case. but I think it's so important to like, have these friendships in our marriage that we can like pour into as a family. And then also to have like separate ones that we can, you know, That can just be separate from that. But, you say that like by the end of Boston, you guys did kind of have some couple friends that you had found that were, you know, steady, even though you weren't necessarily, did you find them together? Do you feel like, after you were married, or was it like you ca you were the one who like came into the established friendship already? Do you know what I mean? Like what was that kind of dynamic like?
Kirstin:I came into them. So there was really one main couple. There were some, but there was one that I think both of us felt comfortable and we, the four of us enjoyed each other because like you're saying, sometimes, you know, I might really like the wife and then maybe my husband doesn't really get along with the husband and it's n it's nothing. It's just like you don't click with
Kimber:Or it's just like, yeah, they're not quite like your best friend kind of thing.
Kirstin:Yeah. Or like he really gets along with a husband and I'm like, I don't know. I'm not really clicking with a wife. So there was one, one couple that he knew from small group that, they were just really great and they also got married shortly after we did. And so we were just really in the same season of life. And, we would have, you know, lunch with him before small group. We were in the same small group. We would do like, you know, 4th of July, I think we all went down to the river of Boston and. We also had our sons within like two weeks of each other. So we haven't had a FaceTime call yet since the babies have been born, cuz life is crazy.
Kimber:Yeah, totally.
Kirstin:even after moving to Virginia, like we've kept in touch with them, So yeah, I came into that and I think even coming into that, at first, I remember. Just not really knowing what to say. Sometimes when all of these, like Boston, really smart computer people, PhD at Harvards and I was like, I don't, I feel so dumb. Like
Kimber:Oh man. Yeah.
Kirstin:the things these people are saying, but it, and this wasn't that they were mean or rude or anything like such nice people. Um, but it was just me. It was just
Kimber:You used to feel a little out of your Yeah.
Kirstin:element. And I'm like, I don't, again, it was that I'm Isaac's wife, but how would I be if I was by myself, but I'm not. I'm not by myself anymore. I'm his wife and all these things be just like running through my head. And so it was probably me putting a lot more stress and anxiety on myself and was necessary. But just that whole transition of like learning this new part of who I was. But I think one thing that was important was I realized. Like I'm still me. You know, when we get married, there is a huge shift because like you said, I'm no longer the center of my universe. I need to think about that other person first. It's not like, oh, I really wanna go hang out with a friend tonight. Like, what's good for my marriage? What's good for my husband? What does my husband need? What do we need? Like, do we need to just stay home and, and hang out and just watch a movie and like be together? And so it's that dying to self and learning to think about that other person first, which I think really my husband was way better at than I was. I think that's also cultural in e in the East, like the, the unit, the family is so important. You're always thinking about the other person. And in the West we're so individualized that I think for us it's harder because it's, it's a bigger shift I think.
Kimber:Hmm. Yeah. How have you seen other, like ways that. the more Eastern cultures versus western cultures, ways that that rubbed up in your marriage or became like, oh, like we think differently about this kind of thing. Did you see any of that? Or you also lived in the east for a while, so maybe that helped as well.
Kirstin:I would say, I mean, there are cultural differences, but none that really stand out as super glaringly. Really hard because he, we all, yeah, both of us wanted something different. Like I think because I lived in the East, I wanted someone who wasn't just like me, or if it wasn't American, it needed to be someone who was very open to other cultures and he had lived in the States so. And I think early on we learned to just talk about those things and say, oh, you do that. And I think food is a big thing, like just different things about food and times of eating actually, because um, in India you just eat really late, which I did in Italy when I lived there. I ate late. But you know, when you're used to like getting a meal ready and everyone eats at like six o'clock or something and then that's just not how it works. And
Kimber:Right.
Kirstin:so that was one thing that was different. But again, Just having that conversation and being like, so I've noticed this. Like, and then hearing, well, yeah, this is how, or even watching Indian movies and realizing, oh, that's how they eat, like that, this makes so much sense now.
Kimber:Hmm. yes. and I think those kind of like quote how we do things you know, those kind of differences can come up in lots of different marriages. And so I think, I think that advice to just like notice them and talk about them can be so good. It reminds me of just like, because marriage is like such. foundational shift in your life. I think it's really easy for it to get wrapped up in like your identity, which is what it sounds like was like that challenge for you in those early years was okay, this is a part of my identity now, but I don't know what this should look like. And so that can play out in, lots of different ways in our unique marriage situations, but it's Just kind of separating like, okay, how much of my identity is wrapped up in this? Because certainly it impacts who you are and stuff, but your identity isn't. Your marriage, right? And so it's like, I don't know. It's a, a figuring out of that balance. And I think that the same can happen with our cultural preferences, right? Is like, you know, well this is part of who I am, or is this just how I do things? And, you know, we can learn a new, a new identity almost, um, in our marriage to each other. So how have you seen kind of your identity like grow and change over the course of your whole marriage? From the, those first days when it was like, oh my gosh, what is, who am I, what does this look like to, like, you know, finding more stability in that.
Kirstin:I think. Again, that piece of advice of processing with the Lord first has been really important. And I think for me too, it's been me realizing that it's okay if I like someone or something and someone like being like a friend and my husband isn't too keen on that. It's okay for me to, you know, like really love a certain friend and he's like, yeah, I don't really. You know, just for him to not be that much of a fan of that person and vice versa. Like if he really loves something, it's okay for me to be like, yeah, I don't really wanna watch that movie, or I don't really wanna do that thing. it's okay for us to have our own unique things, even though we're one, it's like the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, God, the Holy Spirit. They're one. And yet they're unique personalities. If we can say personalities about God, but like Jesus
Kimber:Yeah,
Kirstin:yeah, Persons. That's the word.
Kimber:yeah. You're good,
Kirstin:isn't the son. They're different. They have different roles. And for me it's figuring out what those roles are and then, and then just like helping each other. You know, sometimes like I am with my son, putting him to sleep, and then my husband cleans the kitchen, or maybe he's doing something else and I need to mow the lawn. Like, it's not like, you know, traditional gender roles. Although I think there are certain things that, you know, there's a reason why we think in those terms. Like there's just a lot of logic to a lot of those, but that's for a different conversation.
Kimber:Yeah. Yeah.
Kirstin:but I think, allowing myself Know that it's okay for me to enjoy something and my husband doesn't have to be head over heels for it, which I think plays into the whole idea of like, your husband is your best friend, or your life is just like picture perfect after marriage and, and so when you realize, oh, I really love this thing, or I really enjoyed this person and husband. Doesn't. Then you're like, oh my goodness, is this terrible? Like no, it's just because you're different people and you're supposed to be different people. That's the whole point, right? Like Jesus and the church are completely different, and yet he still loves us as the church because we're other. It's the same in marriage. Like you have a man, you have a woman, and we're totally different, and yet there's, that's the beauty in. Committing to someone who's totally different from us and choosing to love that person no matter what.
Kimber:almost presupposes struggle, because of the difference. Yeah.
Kirstin:yeah. Which I
Kimber:yet we expect, yeah. We don't expect that. Yeah.
Kirstin:Exactly. Or, you know, I mean, everyone is starry-eyed usually before you get married and then you, you know, it's the reality of marriage when also Satan is now against you. Like he doesn't want you. To stay married. He doesn't want you to be married and therefore he's going to try to drive. He's gonna take all of the opportunities for you to be irritated at your spouse, for you to act out in anger, for you to be selfish. He's like there just irking on those tendencies and so we have to fight. I think that's like we have to be active in taking every thought captive and making it obedient to Christ, even in our marriage. So that our marriages can thrive because God is honored in those.
Kimber:Right. Right. I totally agree because it's like, if we don't expect those challenges to come, then there's nothing to overcome in the name of Jesus. Right. And so, I love that perspective of unity alongside uniqueness, and like distinctness and how that images the Lord. Because I think that the trap of like codependence, you know, where it's like I can't be okay unless. My spouse is okay, or whatever. It's, that is such a hard thing to learn, like the distinct line there, because we are told all the time like, well, you're one, you know, you're like, you know, you're together. And, and that's true. But we are still unique persons and so I love that room to like, you know, not always. Everything that, you know, your spouse likes or whatever. And what comes to mind for me with that is, just like situations when you don't, maybe like a friend that, or like a spouse of a, your husband's friend or like, your husband is good friends with someone that you just like really struggle to, enjoy their presence. Like, man, that is, that can be such, I think a, a wedge. Marriage because if, let's say I have a very close friend who, um, my husband doesn't like that like become, that can become like competition almost, right? And, um, if the other, if the friend knows that, then, you know, is she like supporting my marriage, like speaking life into it? Like that's hard to do. And so, have you ever experienced that tension of like, not liking. Uh, your husband's friends or anything, or has that come up for you? Or, uh, how have you seen that happen?
Kirstin:Yes, but it was more like I. Like friends, um, that weren't in my immediate life, like physical life, like just friends that I would talk to, like over the phone. And, um, and I knew that he, didn't like certain things that they said. And I remember just feeling so like offended and like, oh my gosh, how come you not, like, you know?
Kimber:I've been there too. Yep.
Kirstin:I think that whole part of me realizing. Him not liking someone doesn't diminish my friendship with that person. And like I'm still allowed to be friends with that person. And I think we talked about it too. He is like, I mean, you can still be friends with this person. You know, I think there is like a, a line there. I think if it's someone in your. Life's in your community and there is tension that comes up and it disrupts your marriage. Your marriage should come first. You know, I mean, like, that needs to come first, and if it's a good friend, like that person will support that. But we haven't experienced anything like that. But I think it was more just me knowing that, you know, there's, there's gonna be people in my life that, he's not their biggest fan, and that's okay. It doesn't mean that person's bad. It doesn't mean that he's bad. It doesn't mean that I can't enjoy that person as much as I did. You know, it's just he's different from me and that's okay. It just goes back to that you said you're unified, but you're unique. And I think that's a really good way of saying that. which is hard because it's like you want your spouse, again, I think we have this vision of like, we're gonna be unified on everything and we're gonna like all the same
Kimber:Right.
Kirstin:and he's gonna watch a
Kimber:We're so perfect for each other. Yeah.
Kirstin:Yeah, he's gonna. Just love it. And I remember once we watched a movie and he is like, it's so dumb at the end, like, why does this character, he just saw the character and the way she did things differently through me. And then when he, when I heard his perspective, I was like, actually that's really true. How she acts is really horrible. And if I were the man, I would feel the same way he did, but I just never thought about it that way, you know? So, but I wasn't expecting that reaction to this movie that I just loved and watched every year for Christmas and. It's just realizing like if we're friends as husband and wife, then we're allowed to be different and we're allowed to like, you know, say, oh my goodness, I don't, I don't like that. Like, how can you eat that thing? And it's like, it's okay. That's part of like the friendship and you know, if it's picture perfect all the time, a life would get really boring and. It would just be too boring.
Kimber:Right. I, I feel like as you're talking, I'm. I think where it gets blurry in my mind is the difference between preferences in, in that kinda a situation or like, discernment. Because like if it's preferences, then yes, it totally is. okay. For us to like different things and to say like, this person, I really enjoy being around them. And for your husband to say, I really can't stand them. Like, that's okay. You know, because we like different people, like different, thank God, you know, not everyone likes me, you know, but some people do, so that's great. You know, like we all have different personalities that click with different people, and so I think acknowledging that that is going to also happen within. our friendships that impact our marriage. And I think that is really good to acknowledge. But then it's like the line to me, I think maybe is when it becomes more about like discerning something problematic. Like, you know, maybe in. How a person like treats you or, you know, I think sometimes we can't, it's harder to notice that when you're the close one and sometimes people near us see that with a little more clarity or, you know, if it's something like, Hey, like I don't, I don't like who you are when you're around them, or like, you know, something like that that Is deeper or bigger. Um, I think that's a really important opportunity to like trust our spouse and try to listen to them. But then I love what you said about like, talking about the movie, like, talking about it and just being like, Hey, this is what I see here. And trusting your spouse's, discernment and like, you know, view of things. as valid in addition to yours, you know? Cause I think sometimes I just, I think that, I know, I think I know a lot more than I know, and so, and so I think that's like an interesting way that, and I think we're, we're either all or nothing. A lot of times we like, we're like, Nope, I can do whatever I want. And, you know, your opinion doesn't matter. Or we're like, are you okay if I eat this for dinner? Like, you know, or whatever. Like, like there's a, there's a line there and. Some things apply to one and not the other, I think.
Kirstin:Yeah, no, it's so true, man. I had a thought and then it flew out of my brain.
Kimber:Oh, so it goes, it happens. That's okay.
Kirstin:Mom brain.
Kimber:that is the truth. And speaking of like, post kiddos, because you guys, this is your first, right? This is your first kid. Okay. So, this is like a new challenge too, perhaps, is like once you have kids, I feel like the friendship game. Changes a bit. I mean, some people, I think more than others, maybe depending on like your personalities and your parenting styles and stuff, but I think for everyone it changes. Some is like, you know, your time is in less supply, shorter supply, I think. And so that impacts how you can pour into your friendships. But also then you have the, the factor of we can't just go both, go do our own things. Like someone has to be responsible for the. At all times. Right? And so it's a lot of like sharing responsibility and like, I think sacrificing what sometimes we each want to do so that we can either do our own things or be like, no, we need to like prioritize family here. So just what has been your guys' experience with like relearning how you balance your needs for friendship in marriage Post kiddo.
Kirstin:Yeah. So the first thing that comes to mind for me, which isn't necessarily friends, but I have a, because I'm a Mus, I'm a musician as well, and I've played music in like, you know, church for years. I'm not doing that right now and I really want to, but it was a conversation of like, I really wanna do this, can I do it once? Our son turns one and my husband was like, let's just wait because it's two services, it's one evening. It would just be a lot, you know, he's still nursing and Again, that's, it's kind of, it is related to friendship because I get a lot of energy. I'm like an extrovert, so I get energy from like being with other musicians and like getting to know people. It's a huge
Kimber:Hmm. Yeah.
Kirstin:Which again, just goes back to like when you have a kid, it's that dying to self all over again. And yet they give you so much, like, there's such a gift. It's like you're pouring into this person who's literally gonna help to hear of you one day, who is gonna be a friend to you one day. Um, but I think it's just been a another conversation of like, can we go do this? Or actually just last weekend, one of my friends had a birthday party and. Our son, I thought I might not be able to go right before, cuz he just started crying like 15 minutes before. We didn't know what was going
Kimber:Oh my
Kirstin:just teeth, I think it's teething. And my husband was like, if he's not okay, like just come home soon. And I was like, maybe I'm not even gonna go because this is not gonna be fun, you know, if he's
Kimber:Right.
Kirstin:So, But a lot of our friendships now have become more like couple of friends and there's not too many, cuz we just don't have a lot of time. So it's a lot of like you come over to my house, our house, and we'll all eat while the kids run around or vice versa. Or it's taking meals, you know, because someone just had a baby and Yeah. Um, Or it's been neighbors too. We've had now our, our house is, our house is a little further away from our literal next door neighbors. But the house where we were before, we were closer and we would have conversations with like the neighbor when we're just like out walking in the evening. So it's, it's less, and it is, it is kid-centric, but at the same time it's not because, you know, it's still like we both have to. Like jive with the, the, the couples and, you know, having that conversation. Yeah. And I always know, like if my husband's like, let's, let's do that again. I'm like, okay, we're both like on the same page. We both like, you know,
Kimber:Let's do a second date. Yeah.
Kirstin:yes. Yeah, yeah. Basically, yeah, it's true. You can, you do kinda do that. I've never thought about like this before. but then I, I did have a friend who I knew in China who now lives in the area, and she came over to our house for hot pot and then, and my husband was telling me, he's like, yeah, have her over again. Or when I hadn't had her over, he's like, why don't you have her over more? And so to me, that, that blesses me so much when I hear him like, That's the thing about, like, yes, you're different and it's okay to like different things, but I think in marriage it's so sweet. You or your spouse like the other person's friend. It's just like, oh, it's so sweet. Because I do trust my husband and I do trust his discernment. Going back to what you said, and I think us as women too, this was the thought that flew away. That came back, it made me think of Eve where. Like God tells her, you will desire your husband, but he shall roll over you. I think some of that is what you're talking about of we think we know everything, and so when our husbands make comments about people or situations, we're like, yeah, right. You don't what, whatever. But really they often are. Right. And we need to humble ourselves and think about, oh, You know, he sees something that I don't see and like God has given him to me as a protector. Like I am very thankful that my husband is a protector. Like that's what they're supposed to do. And so also when they make comments like that, they're not trying to demean us. They're not trying to be rude, they're not trying to, they're not trying to do that. They're trying to protect us. They're trying to help us see something.
Kimber:Hmm.
Kirstin:And so I think that's something that we need to learn as, as women who are Christians, that it's like our natural tendency to like roll our eyes. I remember actually reading in a book, she had a list of like 10 things. If you're doing three of these 10 things you need to work on respect with your husband. And one of them was like Eyerolling, I dunno. She listed this list and I was checking
Kimber:were just like, oh, snap.
Kirstin:is bad. This is bad. I need to go work on this. But. So, Yeah. right now post kiddos, it's like a lot of couple friends, but also, you know, some friends who are just my friends. And then, you know, that person will come over and it's so sweet to see, like, my husband and Joy, you know, friends who I knew from a past life, you know, in my single years and, and vice versa. Like he's had friends who come over and then, you know, I'll get to know them and so, Yeah, it's, it's a season too and I think right now we're both acknowledging like, life is a little busy. We both work full-time, we take care of our son during the day, which is such a blessing cuz we both work from home and we got a dog, we have land, we got lawn to mow. And so there's not a ton of time for friendships. But like church is a huge thing. His family is close. And then also small group, which we're actually hosting at our house tonight. So, Having those, you know, people come to our home. That's a lot of what it looks like. It's less, you know, meeting at a restaurant before small group. It's like, let's have you over cuz then our kid can run around and we don't have to worry about anything.
Kimber:Yes. it's so nice to have those like easy, comfortable friendships. It's a huge blessing that you can do that with. Oh, I love that. Well, Kirsten, it was so good hearing your perspective on this tonight. I, It's really encouraging for me to hear from like someone else who, from a totally different like life situation, like different marriage, different area of the country, all of the things, and it's like, man, me too. Like, you know, to feel those, feel those same things, but to like be reminded of that encouragement to like, Work towards it and, trust our husbands within this, but that we can, we can still do this friendship thing while even with the challenges that marriage brings to it. And it can be such a blessing, I think, too, to have like, you know, friendships that have originated just within the context of your marriage. I think that those friendships are really special when you get to share them with another person too. Hmm. I love. Well, Kirsten, as we wrap up here, I would love for you to share just like how, um, our friends listening can connect with you further if they want to get to know you a little bit more and get a peek at all of, you know, your wonderful creative pursuits, that you share online. How can, how can we find ya?
Kirstin:so I am on Instagram, so Kirsten Creates, which I know my name is hard to spell, but it's K I R N T I N. And then also my website is the same. Kirsten creates.com, so they can join my email list, which some revamping I'm doing this next quarter I think is gonna be much more focused on my email list. So I would say that's the place to go, but I am also on, I.
Kimber:Awesome. Well, I love talking to you today. Thanks so much for sharing your story with us and, just, uh, giving us a little peek into your world and, uh, the marriage challenges that we, we all share.
Kirstin:Yeah. Thank you.
Kimber:Friends. I'm so glad you could join Kiersten. I, this week on the, your sister Kimber podcast. I love talking the joys and challenges of marriage with you all today and just how our friendships can thrive and intersect with this most special relationship. God has given us. And if you are in the spot Kiersten mentioned and looking to go deeper with maybe a wife of your husband's friend, I might have something to help. My current freebie is called 20 facts to know about your friends. And it's a one stop shop kind of way to gather some really helpful details about a new friend. Just download it on my website, which is linked in the description of this episode Then text it to this potential friend and say, Hey, I'd love to get to know you more. Do you want to swap answers? This is a fun and just low threat way to get some really helpful ideas for conversation starters, when you do hang out and just some ideas for how to support her in the future. And if you haven't yet joined my newsletter crew, will you visit your sister kimbra.com to subscribe? When you subscribe, you get my weekly newsletter directly to your email inbox, with a preview of what will be featured on the podcast that week. Plus a link to this month's blog posts and some other resources to help you grow friendships that honor God. And Dre closer to Jesus. I hope it blesses you. Friends. Thanks so much for being part of this community until next time. It's your sister Kimber.
