Ep.59 The Blessings of Mourning

Kimber talks with series guest co-host Meghan Fravel about the blessings that can come from mourning with your friends, whether it's you letting them into your season of grief, or you entering into theirs. 

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Transcript

Kimber: 0:09

Hey friends. Welcome to the, your sister Kimber podcast. My name is Kimber Gilbert, and I'm so glad you're here. Y'all know, I don't like to shy away from hard conversations and today is no different. My summer guest co-host Megan Freeville. And I are talking today about being a friend who has the capacity to mourn alongside our friends. Grief can be terribly tricky. Right. And I know for me, at least, and many of us the tendency is to try to navigate it alone. But when we can allow our trusted people into the space of mourning with us and when we can be people who aren't afraid to enter into that space with our friends, when they're walking that road, our friendships will be richer for it. And I think it's going to grow our relationships with the Lord too. So friends, I pray that this conversation today draws you closer to Jesus and closer to your people. I wish we could talk this one over face to face with maybe something iced and caffeinated in hand, but this is the next best thing. I'm so glad you hear friend. Let's get started. Hey friends, Megan. Welcome back to the

Meghan: 1:21

Hey, how's it going? Thanks for having me.

Kimber: 1:23

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for being here. Man when this conversation airs, we're having this conversation in June, but it will be the end of July. When this comes out, that actually freaks me out a little bit because.'cause I just feel like summer, I mean, summer in Alaska especially is so fleeting, um, which

Meghan: 1:43

It's especially fleeting this year.

Kimber: 1:44

It's especially fleeting. Yes. We've been talking about this. It's like, it's been Jerry and man, that's just tough when it's like, you have like nine months of winter and it makes the summer seem so special and like precious, which is I'm glad for, but. Then when it's a little bit hard, it's, it's a challenge.

Meghan: 2:04

That's a challenge.

Kimber: 2:05

My question for you, Megan is if you had to live somewhere. That was always winter. Or somewhere that was always summer. Like it was only one or the other all year round, which would you pick? Do you think.

Meghan: 2:18

Okay. I'm gonna shock everyone. My family's gonna die, but I'm gonna say I would rather have winter because I, I grew up in Arizona and it's basically always summer. Even in the winter. It's like, you know, 75. You can only take, this is gonna, you can take So many clothes, so many clothes off guys like, you know, and so I'm just gonna say, you can't go out when it's, you can't go out when it's 120 degrees out. So, um, and so it gets so hard, like especially the summers there, you know, to, like, I remember taking my kids to the park and You're going at 7:00 AM because by eight o'clock it's 95 degrees outside and then you're inside all day. Whereas like the winter, I can bundle up and I can go do all the things still. So,

Kimber: 3:06

Right.

Meghan: 3:07

I'm, I'm gonna say winner. I'm

Kimber: 3:09

Or, I mean with winter, Yeah. I, so I grew up in Kansas where we have like your typical four seasons. And so, um, but I feel like I would probably go with summer just because I've never experienced that. But as someone who. I know I've heard that from people before who like live in climates that are like always summer. They're like, ah, I just like, it gets old and. And I feel like that's why summer in Alaska is so precious because you really like. Feel that just want a need to enjoy it and like really soak it up. But I feel like if it was all the time, I probably would get sick of it like that, but I would get sick of winter year, round twos.

Meghan: 3:50

I know. I mean,

Kimber: 3:51

I don't know what I would say.

Meghan: 3:52

yes, But I

Kimber: 3:53

you do, you do a bunch? Yeah. Yeah.

Meghan: 3:56

I do a bunch. And that was, That was the best advice people gave me when we moved up here was you have to find something you love to do in the winter or else you're not gonna make it in Alaska. And so that's why I started like hiking in the winter and cross country skiing. Um, and every year trying to like add to that, you know, so it was like one year and this year I'm like, maybe we'll fat tire bike this year. Like, try to figure out, you know, just different things. Um, because It is. so long, there's long winter here. But I love having the seasons change. Like Arizona, there's really no seasons changing and um, Yeah. it just gets kind of old fast,

Kimber: 4:33

Yeah. I feel like that's something that I want to do better with is the like winter activity that I enjoy. And it's like,

Meghan: 4:41

that. I'll take you out. We're gonna go out and do

Kimber: 4:43

know I do. I I've been saying for like three years now that I want to learn to cross country ski, so I need to actually do it this year.

Meghan: 4:50

go do it. Let's go do it.

Kimber: 4:51

it.

Meghan: 4:51

Yeah. we'll do it. We'll do

Kimber: 4:53

I love it. Well, Um, even though we were on the back half of summer, um, once this comes out, Um, that means we're also on the back half of our series, our summer series being the friends you need. And, my biggest prayer out of this series is just that, as we're pursuing these God honorary friendships, that God would use it to grow closer to him. And, you know, in this relationship, in our lives, that is the most important, like we talked about friendship a lot here, and those are important relationships, but of course, like our relationship with God is. The most important, that relationship that we have. And so I love seeing just how God has given us like relationships with people that point us toward the superiority of our relationship with him. And so I would love to hear, to kind of get us started today. Just how you see friendship in your life working to draw you closer to the Lord himself. Like what do you feel like friendship, does to grow your relationship with God?

Meghan: 5:51

I think that it helps me see, uh, I know since before like just a different piece of God. Um, maybe it's something that like, you know, we've got all, have our blinders on and they're able to speak in, in that moment, um, that God will speak through them to me or vice versa. it helps. We have like that tangible piece of like right now I'm not physically in the presence of the Lord, but at times, like I am experiencing that with my friendships when we're having that spiritual intimacy. and so Yeah. I think that it brings a lot of those character qualities that we love about God, really like earth side for us to experience, um, and being able to demonstrate that for each other.

Kimber: 6:32

Yeah, I love that experiencing it or side idea. Yeah. It's like, it's just such a glimpse, but it's, it's great. When it, yeah. When we do it. Right. I love that. so as we're talking today, getting into our topic, it's like, man, those moments that are. Just so good. I feel like give us a glimpse of heaven, but then I feel like those moments that are really hard can do that too. Um, but in a different way, you know, it's like, it's maybe not that forward look, but it's like, man, in the midst of like my hard life circumstances, this is a way that, like, I feel like God's presence can be made. So. tangible to us is through the people in our lives when they love us well, through our hard moments. And so, I think this aspect of our relationships is so important and just reminds us to, like, we just should not do life alone because it's so tough. Like we need. People to support us in these dark seasons. and I'm such a believer in pressing into hard conversations. And so today we're going to talk about mourning in our friendships and just how we can be a friend who mourns with our people. And so I'm going to break the ice. We're going to get into it. I feel like people want to have these kinds of conversations because they want to, they want to talk about the stuff that really matters, but I feel like so many of us don't know how to get there. Like, we don't know how to. I bring it up. And so, we're going to talk about it today.

Meghan: 7:59

Let's, let's do it.

Kimber: 8:00

see what we come up with. and so just this idea of like authentically mourning alongside our people. I don't think that this is a given in every friendship. Like, I feel like this is kind of. Like holding space for hard. These hard conversations is I think, an acquired ability. So, um, you know, what has been your experience with like having this space to mourn and like go through the hard things with your friends? Versus friendships that don't like, is this a given for your friendships or not so much? Do you

Meghan: 8:31

Yeah, so I would say I would say since moving to Alaska, we've been kind of hard hit with a lot of stuff just in our families and with my, my friends here. you know, I've had friends that have lost parents and, you know, my mom's got diagnosed with cancer and I had my own big health thing last year. And so there was like a lot of mourning going on. And I would say like up until that moment I hadn't really experienced like a deep, like, there's been mornings of, you know, Like health issues with friends or like marriage or whatever and things like that. But like some of those really big, deep things I hadn't really walked through as a friend before until really like two years ago. and also being on the flip side of that, of like also now I'm the one that's mourning and not just, Yeah. Yeah. And so, Yeah. so it is kind of like a newer thing for me and it really is like one of those things that in some ways you don't always know. It's, it's mourning and grief is a really tough subject cuz everyone does it so differently

Kimber: 9:27

Yeah.

Meghan: 9:28

and they, any you have to show up differently for everybody.

Kimber: 9:31

Hm. Right. How, how would you say let's start with the side. Of cause I agree that there's two sides to this. Like letting friends into your personal grief. that's not always easy

Meghan: 9:46

Nope.

Kimber: 9:47

by any means. and then entering into others. Moments of mourning. Like I think that's where we experienced a lot of awkwardness maybe, or like, we don't know how to do that. so let's start with the first one and then we can get to the other side of it too. so just that idea of like letting people into. Your own moments of like grief and mourning. you say that this is kind of like a new thing for you. Like how have you learned to do that? Like, what does that look like for you?

Meghan: 10:18

Yeah. it's been hard. I've said that still for me. Like I'm always a person who's like, I'm Right. there. I'll, I'll jump in. I'm gonna be in your grief with you and we're gonna do this together. And then when it's like, oh, I gotta let people in on my stuff, I'm like, oh, I don't know. I don't know. that's been a, a harder muscle for me to learn. Um, you know, I'll just say like, With on one instance, like with my mom and cancer, like that was an easier one for me to let people into because it wasn't like, my own personal like heart thing. It was like an external thing that's happening. And that was very easy to let people like come into that space. Um, with my health stuff that I had last year, um, that was really hard. I, I only let a few people really into that part because it was so, it was so heavy for me. And it's hard and it's like, but it could be anything. I mean, it doesn't even have to be something physical. It could be like, my marriage is falling apart or my kid's gone wayward, or financial things like whatever. And those are the parts where it's so like, you feel so tender and vulnerable. And I know for me it's like if I let this out of the bag, What's gonna happen next? And so it really is like, I think at that point, I know like the last episode we talked about being a trustworthy friend, like this is where this is like the rubber meets the road of letting those trustworthy people into that part of my life and knowing that they're gonna love me and care for me. They might not agree with me, am I? You know, there's gonna be some tough love, but meeting me with that grace and knowing I can trust their heart in that process.

Kimber: 11:51

Yeah. I feel like one of the things that can be, can feel hard with this, at least for me is. I think sometimes it feels like I need to, like, if I'm going to let them in, I got a L. Just dump everything. Um, you know, or like it's going to be like a big moment or something. I don't know. But really, I think this happens in like small.

Meghan: 12:12

Yeah.

Kimber: 12:13

moments of vulnerability or like small shares. Over time. because, you know, I think we hype it up in our mind that like, well, if I'm gonna, you know, let someone into mourn with me, it's going to be like this huge long heart to heart, and it's going to be this whole ordeal and that might happen. But it also might be just like a. you know, you've talked about before, like the sending the purple heart or like telling someone like, Hey, I'm having a really hard day today with this. And just like allowing them to see, um, that side of your life. and I think that can happen in just like small shares, even if, you know, if it feels like overwhelming. I think that it doesn't have to be such a huge thing. Um, what do you feel like is the biggest barrier for you when you were, when you're like trying to allow those trustworthy people in, um, what do you feel like is the biggest barrier for you of why you don't. Or

Meghan: 13:11

I think for me, I would say for me it's shame.

Kimber: 13:13

Okay.

Meghan: 13:14

I'm let, I'm letting you in on my mess

Kimber: 13:16

Gotcha.

Meghan: 13:17

how are you going to carry that?

Kimber: 13:20

Yeah.

Meghan: 13:21

cuz for me it's more, it's not less like I need to have this big drawn out story. It's like I need to have it kind of cleaned up in a pretty bow on it and be like, here's my problem, but I've got it all tied up and it's like, you know, and this gloss over, which is not really real. Um, and so just being like, Here it is.

Kimber: 13:37

it is. Yeah. I don't have an answer. I

Meghan: 13:40

I don't have yeah,

Kimber: 13:40

Yeah. Um,

Meghan: 13:42

And so, but I think it's shame of like, I should. For me, it's, uh, I should do better. I should be better. I shouldn't be struggling with this. Um, and so for me, that's my, that's my barrier.

Kimber: 13:52

Um, so many, so many of us, I think have that narrative of, I shouldn't be struggling with this. And I feel like I hear that. I've heard that a lot over the years and I don't know. Like, why do you think we. Go there. Like, why is that something that we believe even if we like intellectually know that that's not true, you know? like, of course we will struggle with stuff. You know what I mean?

Meghan: 14:15

Yep. Yep. I honestly, I always take it back to like good old eve in the garden of like that being deceived and that that whole of, but you, but you, but you know more, you can do that questioning of, can I trust God? Instead of my or can I trust me? And so there, I feel like there's like that tension that like the enemy just put in from day one of you can't trust yourself,

Kimber: 14:41

Mm. Yeah. Andrew can't trust the people

Meghan: 14:44

And you can't trust the people around you Yeah. Yeah. Or God. Or

Kimber: 14:47

Right. Right man, we can't trust. Yeah. He comes at

Meghan: 14:51

just do it all, all

Kimber: 14:52

angles. Yeah. And that's one reason I love, you know, the friendship tie here is because like, not only do we have to try to trust other people and when we. When we share vulnerably, in our grief or in anything. When we share. Vulnerably with a friend, we are fighting back against that lie of the enemy. And we're saying, Nope, I'm not going to listen to that. But then at the same time, when we share vulnerably with a friend, we're also finding is that lie that like you can't trust yourself because, maybe. Your better judgment or not your better judgment, but your, you know, flesh, if you will, um, says, Nope, I should just take care of this. Uh, you know, on my own or whatever, you're fighting against that when you articulate and trust someone else with it. And then you're trusting God too, because you know that like that person isn't going to perfectly handle it, but that the Lord still holds your, holds your heart in that. So, yeah, I love that connection.

Meghan: 15:49

Yeah, Good.

Kimber: 15:50

what would you say then about like the other side? Of it, because I think the other side is entering into others morning. Like when you, aren't the one who is directly. Um, it's in there life, but you still are like walking along. The path with others. I feel like this is the space where sometimes we don't enter into others. Morning, because like, we feel awkward or we don't want to like impose or we don't know how to do

Meghan: 16:19

to say? Yeah.

Kimber: 16:21

yes. Yes. So how have you experienced kind of that side of things?

Meghan: 16:26

Yeah. it's really tricky. I honestly didn't realize how hard it was until I walked. Through a friend in her deep grief and like feeling like, I don't know if I do this well. Um, because it's hard cuz it's like you don't know what to say. It's hard sometimes to know like, there's no perfect words, there's No, like, I I tend to be a fixer and I'm like, I just wanna make you feel better. What can I do? And it's like, you can't fix it You just can't. And so it just is. what it is. Um, I read this really amazing book, a long time ago called Just Show Up. And it was about, it was actually a girl, Um, I think her name was Kara Tippet. She got breast cancer. She ended up passing away, but she wrote this book during her cancer journey with her best friend about like grief and how to walk through. And the whole concept was like, Just showing up, just show up with a meal. Just, just sit there and not feel like you have to say anything, but just to let them cry. Just to listen, just to hold their hand. I think so, so many times we wanna come with like the fix it, the like, I can make this better platter and You just can't, like, you just,

Kimber: 17:38

there's nothing. Yeah.

Meghan: 17:39

and, and asking them like, what can I do for you? Like, that's been a really big one that I've learned is like, What can I do for you? Like, they don't even know. They don't even know, like, and so having really like practical things of like, can I take the kids to the park for you so you can be alone today? Or, Hey, can I come fold up? You know, a basket of laundry. Like having really like specific things. you know, or sometimes it's like, hey, if it's nothing like a physical thing, maybe it's, again, it's just more of an emotional challenge happening of do you wanna like start. Screen the Bible together. You wanna go get coffee once a week or let's just go for a walk? And that's just like our time and you can just process, you know, there's so many different angles to this,

Kimber: 18:20

Yeah. I feel like a big part of that is like, You know, knowing your friend. I don't remember. Maybe it was with you or maybe it's with someone else. I don't remember who said this, but they were talking about like, you know, knowing your friend, uh, before. Like the metaphorical poo

Meghan: 18:37

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Kimber: 18:38

Oh, I think it was in my conversation with Sally Jo cook. When we talked about grief after her loss of her husband. she was like, you know, do that work of like, getting to know your friend before you're in that moment where you have to figure out what to do. And of course that isn't always.

Meghan: 18:57

Yeah. The case.

Kimber: 18:58

But I think many times, you know, it can be. And so putting in the work to like, get to know how your friend processes. You know, is it external, internal, do they need time or they want to talk about it? Like. Knowing, just that simple thing before you're in

Meghan: 19:17

so good. Yeah, that's so good because that's exactly what happened, um, with me is in January, my mom's cancer, my mom's cancer came back and I got the call and, it had sort of gone away and six weeks later it came back at like stage four and, um, it, that obviously it was like, I gotta get to Arizona as fast as possible. But what happened that day? Without me, like I just kind of put the word out there. Hey guys, this is what happened. Like I'm trying to get down to Arizona. Just be praying. I can't even tell you. I think I had like 10 people stop by at my house within like two hours with. Coffee with flowers,

Kimber: 19:53

Mm.

Meghan: 19:54

friends were like, Megan needs is the one that like when this, when the crap hits the fan, like needs her people. And they just literally, like my door was just

Kimber: 20:02

They

Meghan: 20:02

for hours of like, I just came to give you a hug. I don't have to stay. But then at one point, I think there was like six of us in my living room and we were just all crying like, you know, and it was so exactly what I needed and I didn't even ask for it. It was just like, we know Megan is gonna like, Need that. Need that, you know? And so that was, that's so perfect cuz that's literally Yeah. it's so true. Like they

Kimber: 20:24

And I think it enables you to respond with a little more confidence. I, you know, I think there is always that aspect of, and this is important of. I'm not going to get this right. And so I think we can have a desire to get it right. To like, love our friend. Well, in that moment and like, you know, sit in their, in their grief with them, mourn with them, but we can't, I think have a need to get it.

Meghan: 20:50

Yeah, Right. Yeah. Oh

Kimber: 20:53

if I have a desire to do it well, like that just honors my friend, it honors God. Like, you know, I'm trying to love them. Well, But if I have a need to do it right. Um, that will probably have me walking in fear of saying the wrong thing or doing something that ends up somehow hurting their feelings. But I can't possibly know all of that. Like I can try. But I can't have a need to do it. Right. Cause I think that's just going to end up handicapping me or like paralyzing me in those moments when, it's more important that I demonstrate some kind of care, even if it ends up not being exactly what was the most helpful or something. I think the, the showing up or the demonstrating the. The desire is, can be. almost the most important thing.

Meghan: 21:41

yeah, yeah. That's so true. That's really good.

Kimber: 21:44

What do you think like. Keeps us from going to those moments, like, you know, you're talking about, you know, with your mom, like. if there was someone who, who didn't show up in that moment for you, what do you feel like would have kept them away? Like what do you think is a roadblock to us of. Being present in those moments.

Meghan: 22:05

I think it's a fear of, The unknown of, I don't know, maybe not knowing what to say again. It's not like I feel like I have to come up with the answers. Um, I think that it's, we don't like to just sit in the quiet, in the awkwardness of like, and especially with grief of like literally just sitting there is gonna be the best thing you can do. But we, I think we so just wanna have like the Right. word or the right bible verse and the right thing, and. it's just not like you just gotta,

Kimber: 22:34

Right.

Meghan: 22:35

gotta be. And I think that's really hard for a lot of us to, I think it just feels like it's not enough when really, like, It really is. you know? Um, yeah.

Kimber: 22:45

So yeah, I feel like. I got to experience that recently with a friend

Meghan: 22:50

Mm-hmm.

Kimber: 22:51

got some news and we were in like the same place together. And so there wasn't really an option to like, Okay, I'm going to let you be. Don't really Like

Meghan: 23:00

Right,

Kimber: 23:00

Like we just were in this space. And so, and I knew at that point that there wasn't anything I could say, like there was nothing I needed to contribute in that moment. Like I tend to be a fixer. And so a lot of times I, I have the, the, uh, tendency to like, look forward to like, what's next. Or like, you know, something like that. And, but I already knew that stuff, like we'd talked about it. And, and so there was just, it was very apparent. There was nothing. That needed to be said in that moment. And it like forced me. To sit quiet in that, in that space. And, man that I think is a muscle. I wonder if it's a muscle that we practice. Yeah.

Meghan: 23:42

Yeah. Yeah. Cuz it's really hard. It's hard. I think like, Yeah. I've been on the end of that. I had, a years ago I had a friend that passed away really unexpectedly, and I was with friends when I got the phone call and it was that same thing of like, you're just thrown into it. There's no like preparing if I'm gonna go to meet them and just sit there. You know, you're just kind of, sometimes that's easier than the like, I know that I'm gonna show up and Yeah. I'm Building it. Um, but it's, yeah, it's hard. It's so hard cuz Yeah. I think that our desire, I know for me, like my desire is like, I always wanna say the right thing and be that comfort to that person. And so I tend to like operate at a fear of what if it's not, you know, enough or I don't, I am gonna say the wrong thing. And I've learned, like, people have said things to me where I'm like, That's really dumb,

Kimber: 24:30

Right.

Meghan: 24:31

but I know you love me. Like, and it's okay. Like it's okay. And it's okay to say the dumb thing. Like it's okay.

Kimber: 24:37

Yeah. it's going to happen at some point or another. Yeah.

Meghan: 24:41

I know that like, I know their heart in it is to love me and I, and honestly, like there's just some things that you're not gonna really understand until. You've had to walk through it. Hopefully, maybe some things You never have to. But being on the other side of that, like I would say like as someone being the friend that walked through, having a friend that had a parent with cancer and now being the one that has a parent with cancer, I'm like, oh, I get it? now. Like I see this. Um, so there, there is a level of that of understanding, you know, you, again, it's not like I can sympathize, but empathize difference of, you know, I know what I could sympathize with a friend that had a parent with cancer, but now I have like, I, I get this, you know, or health, like, I, I get it. I un I understand what this feels like, you know, so,

Kimber: 25:28

And I feel like if you can't like, like, if you can authentically empathize in that moment. Like lean into that, you know, with an understanding that like their experience may be different because as you said, like, grief is so different for everyone. But, um, if you can't like that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be

Meghan: 25:48

Right. Show up. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You still need to be there.

Kimber: 25:52

Right. So why do you feel like, is kind of that line, if you haven't authentically experienced it, how you can still, you know, show up with your whole heart, even though you fully recognize, like, I don't understand what this

Meghan: 26:04

Yeah, yeah, I think that it can just be really practical things like, again, like can I bring you. a meal? That's a Great way to start if you're like, You wanna bring dinner over? Um, you know, I had a friend was like, I'm gonna bring you coffee, but I also wanna like clean something at your house. What can I clean? Like, you know, and those are ways of like, or just texting them or calling, being like, I know, I'm just thinking about you today. And. Just wanna let you know I love you and I'm here for you. You know, and thinking of you. Those are things that. Like they mean so much and it doesn't necessarily mean you've had to walk through those things. Um, but you're showing up. You're not just because Yeah. There's been Yeah. Could, Yeah. Because there's been people that, that have done that, you know, to me, and it's, it's hard cause I'm like, wow, I haven't even heard from this person. And I thought we were like really good friends.

Kimber: 26:53

Right.

Meghan: 26:54

You know, and so then you're kinda like, huh, interesting. You know, and, and, and some been like, I didn't know what to say, and I'm like, oh, I, I get that. You don't need to say anything.

Kimber: 27:01

Yeah.

Meghan: 27:02

no, like you just, Yeah. just you just even saying like, I'm thinking about you today is

Kimber: 27:06

Yeah, that's great. Yeah. I think what you're saying with, like, we don't feel like these kinds of things are quote enough, but then the flip side is that then we don't do anything.

Meghan: 27:17

Right,

Kimber: 27:17

then of course doesn't feel like enough. So it's like. So, you know, I think if we thought about that, we would be like, oh yeah, duh, but you know, in the

Meghan: 27:25

an all or nothing.

Kimber: 27:26

yes. I think that if we, if we've thought about that in the moment, we would realize that like showing up and doing quote, not enough is. Is okay. Like that's a starting place.

Meghan: 27:38

and showing up and saying the wrong thing is still showing up,

Kimber: 27:41

Yeah. Yeah.

Meghan: 27:42

you know? Yeah. Like at the end of the day, I'm like, you still showed up?

Kimber: 27:45

And you never know like what that will build to. Cause I think that the other thing is like, you know, we think of it as like a small gesture, but like, you never know like what conversations might come from that small moment or like, you know, maybe you'll bring that meal at like a time that was really like a hard moment and have an opportunity to. You know, love them in that moment and be there for them, or maybe not like, you know, I think a lot of it too is like letting go of our expectations with what it should look like to mourn with a friend. And rather just letting like the holy spirit lead us. It's through that time, whether it's like an event. And so it's like, you know, a short time with that friend or if it's over the course of years, like, man, If there's anything that like walking through grief with a friend has taught me it's that. this is a long haul and I can't rely on myself. I even, if it wasn't a long haul, I'm not going to be sufficient in that moment. But especially over the long haul grief, I think it teaches us that. Man. I just have to, like, in any given conversation, I need to ask the holy spirit to guide me because otherwise I'm going to like blunder through it and, you know, Like, I'm never going to be equipped because like you said, every one grieves differently. And so even if I do have like authentic, Empathy from my own experience. it still may be different. for them. And so

Meghan: 29:11

Mm-hmm.

Kimber: 29:11

think this is just such an area where leaning on the holy spirit is, is you can just like be, I think so comforting to us too, because it's like, okay, it's not. Like totally on me. Like he's going to guide me and teach me how to, how to walk through this with my friend and the way that they uniquely need.

Meghan: 29:28

yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's so good.

Kimber: 29:30

So as we're kind of wrapping up this conversation, I would love to, we could obviously get way more into that. We could talk about that a lot more. But this is just like a touch point, I think, because we talk about grief pretty often. Here at the podcast, because I think that, you know, like I said, this is the convert, these are the kinds of conversations that we need to have. And so, As I've also said through this series, one of my hopes with this summer series is that it would be more of like a springboard for these conversations to happen. Like with your people. Like, we don't have time to go into all the things. And even if we did, like we've said, This is something that's so unique to people's individual friendships. And so I hope that this conversation will just be a touch point to remind you that. as we are mourning with our friends, that impacts our friendships deeply and that, you know, we really need the Lord to walk through those moments with us. So as we're looking at our challenge for this conversation, you know, this is something that might be a present reality in someone's life, or it might not be right now. So like, what do you think is a way that we can kind of put this into practice or take this conversation to our friendships this week?

Meghan: 30:50

Yeah. So I think that like the challenge. Yeah, Cause like you said, you might presently be the one that's in a season of mourning and grief or you know, your friend is, or someone else. Or you might be like, there's really nothing going on. Um, maybe in your immediate circle, but there kind of always is, you know? And so, I'd say a practical step is if you're someone that's like, I'm not really sure what to do, um, reach out with some practical things to that person of. Hey, can I go do this for you? Is that, you know, and they might say no, but then they might say no, but I could have, this would be something great that I would love to have, you know? Um, and so taking that first step of just communicating like, Hey, I'm here for you with something that you might need, and be specific about it. and then if you are someone that's like, I'm in this really like, Morning season, and I haven't really let that a person into that of, of taking that step to, to speak about it. Like, find that friend that you know that you can trust and going to them and being like, I need to bring you, bring you in on this a little

Kimber: 31:51

Yeah, I love that. Mm, that's so good. Cause that's kind of those, both sides, both sides of it. And I love that. You know, you mentioned that they might say no, but I think what I see in that is that even if they say, no, I don't need that or whatever, or I don't want you to do that right now. they still have learned through that interaction that you were thinking about them and that you care about them. And, and so to me it's still a win, you know, and you're still showing that love for them. Even if they end up refusing whatever care you're trained to provide.

Meghan: 32:25

And it's a good muscle if you're someone that doesn't like to ask for help. When people, as someone who doesn't like to ask for help, to be like, Um, yes. Cuz I know that. they're trying to like, love me. And so, letting, like not taking away that gift from them of like, they wanna bless me, you know, and so, so let them clean your toilet. It's okay. It's okay.

Kimber: 32:46

Yeah. We all have cleaned a toilet before. And

Meghan: 32:49

we have.

Kimber: 32:49

it's not like some weird thing. Yeah.

Meghan: 32:51

Yeah.

Kimber: 32:52

But it feels like it sometimes, but yeah, I love that. And then just like sharing, like you said, if you're the one walking through it, I'm bringing someone into that. I think just that, it might be a big. Hey, I need to unload this on you. Or it might be something smaller, like just a small share of, Hey, I'm having a hard day. Can you pray for me? Or, you

Meghan: 33:12

Yes, I, Yeah. And I love that. Yep. I love that. cuz it does, I think that just builds that muscle of like reaching out. Like even like, well today I already, I already got two of like, Hey, it's having a rough day. Can you pray for me? You know, I got a, another colored heart from a friend. She's a different color And she's like, I got you. I'm praying, you know, I have no idea what's going on. You know, but I'm praying, Yeah.

Kimber: 33:32

that. And back to our trust conversation. That's an opportunity then to, you know, trust God with that friendship and pray for them and trust that he'll do the work. Even if you don't know the details.

Meghan: 33:43

Exactly. Yeah.

Kimber: 33:44

Uh, I love it. Well, thank you so much for having this conversation with me today, Megan. I, like I said, I, I really. Believe in not avoiding the hard conversation.

Meghan: 33:53

Yes. Yeah, same.

Kimber: 33:55

into that with me.

Meghan: 33:56

Yes. No, thank you.

Kimber: 33:58

Well, thanks for hanging out with us today, friends. Uh, GOFI. Sophie the friend you need. We love you guys.

Meghan: 34:03

Yep. Bye.

Kimber: 34:09

Friends. I'm so glad you could join me and Megan on the show this week. I know that morning with our friends. Isn't the easiest thing to talk about. And we often don't want to think about it until we find ourselves swimming in it. So thank you for going there with me and Megan today. I pray that God blesses your relationships through it. If you're loving this series so far, would you tell a friend about the podcast this week? To shoot her a message or the post from social media or a text or an episode link and ask if she would listen. So you guys can talk about it the next time you hang out. My prayer for this series, is that in Holly gets you thinking, but it gets you engaging in these kinds of conversations with your own friends on your couch or across the table or on your next walk or hike. And because I know how busy summer can guys are out doing all those awesome things. Make sure that you have subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, so that every week your episode pops up and you don't miss a single one, you can also sign up to be part of my newsletter crews so that you get a weekly preview directly to your email inbox. Of what will be on the podcast that week. I also like to include a tip of the week to try in that email and some other goodies. So make sure you check that out at your sister, kimber.com. Friends. Thank you so much for spending part of your day with us until next time. It's your sister Kimber.