Your Sister, Kimber
Your Sister, Kimber
Ep.62 Stab Me in the Front + Series Wrap-Up
In the final episode in our Being the Friend You Need summer series, Meghan and I talk about the friend we need: one who challenges us, pushes back against our bad ideas, and metaphorically “stabs us in the front,” rather than in the back by telling us the truth, even when it feels hard.
We also take some time to reflect on this series as a whole, which I pray has blessed your friendships this summer! Thank you so much for joining us for this series!
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hey friends. Welcome to the, your sister Kimber podcast. My name is Kimber Gilbert, and I'm so glad you're here today. Guys, this is the final episode in our summer series being the friend you need. And I mean, I can't believe it. I do pray that this series has drawn you closer to Jesus and closer to your people. As we've discussed how Jesus is life and our relationship with him can teach us to be that friend that we know we all need. Today, we're wrapping up this series with a final conversation about a friend that I have learned I need in my life. One who challenges me or pushes back when I'm missing it. Or as Megan puts it stabs me in the front, not in the back. This kind of friend is a rare breed, but it's one that can be such a blessing to our lives. So I'm excited to chat with you all about how we can cultivate this kind of relationships today. As always, I do wish that it could be a person ideally over coffee, but this is the next best thing. I'm so glad you're here, friend. Let's get started. Hey friends. Megan, welcome back. How are you doing today? Hi Kimber. Good. How are you doing? Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. This is the last time though, that we're gonna be talking this summer, um, which is just. It's crazy to me that we talked in our last episode about how, oh my goodness. Like summer's almost over and we're wrapping up this summer series. School's starting all the things, but all the things. Um, man, I have, I have just really enjoyed this series. It's been such a blessing for me to like, have someone to talk with this summer.'cause I love, yeah, just loved having a buddy and someone that I could, it's been awesome. Go back and forth with. Yeah. It's been so good. No, I lost it. So, um, this series we have, man, we've, we've gone through a lot of different things, um, just about this idea that, we all have this ideal friend, I think in mind. Um mm-hmm. But really all we can control in that we can't just like only look for that kind of person. All we can control is Leading the way and being that kind of a friend and see who God brings into our lives. Right. And so, man, as we've been going through this series, we've just been talking about how like if we wanna be that friend that we need, the one we look to is Jesus.'cause like he is the best model that we have of the kind of friend that we all really want. He is that kind of friend that we need. And so, I think that, as we're looking at like all these different areas, like last week you talked about how being in step with the spirit and showing those fruits of the spirit and our relationships can grow them. Or, um, prayer we talked about back at the beginning, or like grief and mourning we've talked about as well. Yeah. Like all of these things I think just give us such a good model, um, for how our relationship with Jesus impacts our friendships here on earth. And so, um, I've just loved looking at. Jesus life and through this lens, because I think it always makes me notice what these things are in the gospels that I don't really pay attention to otherwise, you know, it's like when you read something specifically looking for something else, you just notice things that you wouldn't otherwise. Because usually when I read like the gospels, Jesus's story, we're thinking about like his mission or like his work on the cross, which of course those things are primary. Right, right, right. But I think that he also really teaches us how to human well and yes. Yeah. So I've loved looking at that. And so I would love if we could just start this kind of final episode of this series. Like what stands out to you about Jesus and how he did relationships or friendships, like what do you think is that big thing that we, A big thing because there's lots that we can learn from how he did life with others and, and how he did friendships. Yeah. Well, the first thing I thought of was
Meghan:that, you know, one of the names that we have for Jesus is a friend of sinners. And so,
Kimber:you know, he,
Meghan:I think would consider all his friend in that way of that he loved the unlovable. We see that so many times in scripture, the people that were mm-hmm. You know, cast out and, weren't at a social status that the rest of the world would say is appropriate or okay or acceptable. Right. You know, he, he went down to those places and met those people. Um, I love that. And so I lo so he starts off with like, the playing field is level here. Mm-hmm. And then within that, within that, he has, it kind of goes up from there. And he's got his circles with people and he is got his, the people that he'd ministry with and he has his disciples. And then within that, within that realm of disciples, he had his closest three friends. And so you just see these, like these circles go out, but the whole time he is. He is a friend to, to all in showing kindness and gentleness and all those things we talked about in the previous episode. So, um, that's what I like, stands out to me is, I can be a friend, you know, quote unquote friend to everyone and love everyone. But then there's those, peer, you know, those levels up of the closeness and intimacy that
Kimber:happens. Yes. That was actually something that, that came, yeah, access. That was something that came to mind to me too because, you know, it's like we think of the life of Jesus and I think that one of the things that stands out to me is like most prominent probably about what his presence was like, is that, you know, even if someone had just met him and they only interacted with him for a moment, like as he was healing them or something like that encounter, I'm sure went with them for the rest of their lives, right? Yeah. Oh yeah. Regardless of like how close he was to someone, it seems like his presence impacted, right? Yeah. Just'cause of how he loved people and um, but then like you're saying, it's also this idea of like boundaries, right? Mm-hmm. And like, like access, like you said, like not everyone had equal access to him despite, right? Those people that, you know, periodically experienced his presence in powerful ways, you know? And so that idea of like, how does, in my friendships then, how do boundaries or like, you know, levels of intimacy, how do those things interact with having like sacrificial love for people? Because like, you know, there are moments when you know Jesus. Love sacrificially by like, giving time to people that he might not, right. That he could have spent with his disciples or that he could have spent like in prayer or by himself. Like, he, you see him like reach outside of those things in loving, sacrificial ways. But then you also see times where he is putting up firm boundaries and like saying, no, like, I'm gonna withdraw and like, be with my father. Or, um, like, Hey, you three disciples, come with me for this. The rest of you stay here. Like, yeah, like he, you know, things. So it's like equal access is not the answer. Right? But setting like friendship boundaries in ways that like, Are healthy and are, are actually like for our good and our relational health is clearly laid out in his life. And so, although that's not like the main thrust of the New Testament, um, or at least the gospels, like, I think that that's something that we can see in his life that can be such a, a helpful just model for us. Because it's like, like you're saying, like those sort of concentric circles is how a lot of times I think of it or like, you know, a tower of Yes. Uh, like closeness, like you're saying. You know, those things, that kind of a model I think can be really helpful in our lives. And that's not, Diametrically opposed to like loving sacrificially Yes. In relationships. Right, right. Like we can have sacrificial love for, you know, those people that we don't know as well and still have healthy boundaries. Exactly. And so that, that just like dynamic has been something that has been, um, on my mind lately. I think also because I'm such a person who's like a more the merrier kind of girl. Yes. Um, same, but I do not have that kind of capacity for like no close friendship. Mm-hmm. And so learning how to steward that well, like my capacity for friendship stewarding that well is, uh, probably will be a lifelong journey. Yeah. Yeah. Just based on the trajectory so far.
Meghan:Yes. No. Yeah. It's, I, I'm, I'm similar. Like I think I, yeah. You know, a lot of people would describe me as someone has a large capacity for. For people and like, yeah. Community. I would say that in the last like, I don't know, seven or eight months, I've definitely like, felt a little bit more, um, not that I don't have, but I think I, I'm in a season of a smaller bit smaller capacity and like who I'm allowing to like really speak in right now. And, um, and that's not, that's not a bad thing. Um, it's just, it's a new thing. I think that's, it's kind of, that's very normal. It's a new thing for me because I'm like, I'm usually the like social butterflies doing all the thing, you know? And I'm like, yeah. Like now pass and everyone's, yeah. Anyways,
Kimber:I think that's so true and I love that you say that actually, because I'm sure there's, um, friends listening who feel like they are that social butterfly too, and I, it's like a tactic of the enemy when we go through times when we need to narrow that a little bit. Yeah. It's a tactic of the enemy to make it seem like either we're not loving people well or we're not really being ourselves, quote unquote, or, you know, we need to fix something or what's wrong with me. Um, no, there's just, I think there's just, we need different things at different times and I think that's okay. And I, like I said, I think Jesus' life reflects that like Yeah, yeah. Are times when he just like was around people so often it seems and he's like pouring out, pouring out, pouring out. And then there are times when he withdraws and like no one sees or hears from him for who knows how long. We know. At least one time when he went into the wilderness to be tempted by the end of the 40 days. Right. So like, I don't think that as we go through those ebbs and flows, I don't think that that should be something that feels bad to us or untrue to ourselves even, or at, you know, at worst it's, it's not that we're not loving people. Well, I think it's just that our hearts need different things at different times from friendships. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, I agree. So I I love that you shared that. Yeah. Um, yeah, I, I think man, friends listening, if you have never read the gospels through this lens of like how to be a good friend Yeah. I would challenge you to do it because obviously, like I said, that's not the main thrust, but like Jesus is such, I think, a deep well for mm-hmm. Just that how to human idea. Yep. And I think we can learn a lot from,
Meghan:it's so, yeah. And the gospels are just so relational and Yeah. That's what they are so, so deep in with that,
Kimber:so yeah. Mm-hmm. I love it. Well, at the beginning of this summer, um, since we are kind of reflecting through this episode, um, I remember that we both shared in the first episode, I think, uh, just the parts of the series that we were like most looking forward to as we Yeah. Like we're getting started and I remember, I think we, we both said two different ones Yeah. That we were most excited for. And one of them, was like this idea of like, friends who challenge us and that's what we're gonna talk about today. The other one though, was prayer. And that's what we kicked off the series with. And so I would love, just before we get into the, the idea of friends who challenge us, to reflect a little bit on that, that prayer idea. We talked about it a long time ago. It's been several months since then. How have you seen the Lord growing in, just you in the area of prayer? Um, since we started this series. Yeah. And since we had that conversation back in, like, may I know, when was that?
Meghan:I was, yeah. Wow. It feels like forever ago and not that long ago, A
Kimber:million years ago.
Meghan:Um, I would say it's grown quite a bit. Um, I was really challenged after our conversation too, again, of just, um, for me, like, because I'm such an outward processor, it's very much easier for me to want to process with externally, with other people. And so that's been my big challenge. I think this summer is just taking that to the Lord first. Hmm. Um, before I go to others, other people. Yeah. For that and, and taking it to others is, is important too. Like there's definitely like, again, like the Holy Spirit and hearing that from our friends, but my first job is to be. Obedient to Christ and to be in his presence first, um, and take it to him. So that's been like my challenge with prayer. It's been really awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Had lots of opportunities to have to do it.
Kimber:Isn't that how it goes? Yeah. I, I feel like for me it's been, um, just a lot of like surrender of like, you know, what this should look like. What does it look like? And just like kind of God, like stripping some things back, um, revealing some things to me. But what I feel like he keeps saying through prayer to me lately is just centered on love and like his love for me. Because I think, I mean we talk about it a lot here obviously is the. Main topic behind my podcast is like, how to love others well. Right. But I think that we can't love others well until we receive the love of God. And so I think that that is what he has been trying to teach me lately is just how to like really receive that and live in that. And, man, it's a lot. More easy for me to intellectualize that to not, than to actually feel it, um, and experience it and like, know it deeply. And so, I feel like that's been where, what we've been talking about lately, but that's good. I, I think it was A powerful thing to set off the summer, and I think this theme of prayer is gonna continue in our community and so into the fall, and I'm excited for that. So, yeah, absolutely. Oh, that's good. Well, the other one that we talked about, like I said, um, in the intro episode of this series, uh, which I will say friends listening, if you are just now joining us, um, for whatever reason, if you just hopped onto this episode, I would encourage you to go back and catch up on this whole series, um, over the course of the fall. It started back in episode 52. It's called Being the Friend You Need. And, um, that's where these conversations started that we're referencing here. But that one we talked about in that episode was just this idea of, I need a friend who challenges me or like mm-hmm. Pushes back, um, is how I say it a lot of the time. and for me, this idea. I think comes from just the fact that like, I'm a pretty strong-willed person. Like I generally know what I think and how I think things should be, and I don't usually have a problem saying that. And like, you know, expressing that, like, I just think that I can be a strong personality. And so I've come to realize that sometimes it seems like that results in, sometimes my friends will just like, go along with things that I say or think rather than like pushing back when I am missing the boat. Or like, that was dumb like that, isn't it? Like, you know, like, I need someone, multiple people or you know, at least one friend in my life who's gonna like call me on my stuff. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? And I know that I need that, that's more apparent to me than ever. Um, like I need that in my life. And so over the past few years I've been like more intentional about like, Setting up those kind of relationships in my life. Mm-hmm. So that I, I know that that's gonna happen. but I think that it, that kind of a friendship doesn't happen naturally quite, um, sure. And I think you referred to this idea as like, a friend who stabs me in the front. Yes. Um, do you remember that phrase? Yes, I remember that, yes. Yeah. That was not, was that original to you or did you hear that from something? No,
Meghan:no. It was from, I was trying to think of it. I can see the, there's a guy on Instagram who does this amazing, like artwork. I'll have to find his profile. I can like literally see it in my head. Yeah. Um, but he, it was a picture that he had drawn of like two like soldiers and the one guy literally just got like a knife through the chest of his friend. Mm-hmm. And it just says, um, a friend stabs you in the front. And then he kind of went into like, what that means a little bit. Yeah. And, and that whole aspect of. I want a friend that's not gonna be afraid to tell me my stuff or what they're seeing in my life and call me out on it. And that, that's like the most loving thing to do versus stab, stab me in the back. And so, right. and I think again, that's so counterculture to our world of, a lot of people want friendship is like, you just go along with what I'm doing right and be fine with it. Um, but that's not true. Like for me, I'm like a real friend is someone who says, I'm seeing this in your life. And like, the fact that they feel like they can do that shows that there's trust and that there's a love and careness there. Um, that's really important to have. And so, um, yeah. So a friend that stabs you, you want a friend that stabs you in the front and, uh, in the back. Yeah.
Kimber:Mm. I love that. So how do you think that we cultivate this in our friendships? Because yeah, I don't think that it's natural most to most people or that idea of like Right. You know, pushing back in our friendships. And like you said, it's definitely not natural in our culture that Yeah. It's telling the truth to our people. So where do you think we, like start with this? What do you see as like being some ways to cultivate this in our relationships?
Meghan:So I'm gonna say like, you know, people can come up to me and tell me whatever they wanna say, but I'm gonna hold that a lot differently. Um, if Joe Schmo comes up and says something to me versus like, my best friend in the whole world. Yeah. And so there's a level of relationship I think and trust that has to be pretty foundationally layered, I think, to get to that point. And I think that that's a conversation that needs to be had of like, I. Want a deep friendship with you. Again, we've talked about that before of like, I wanna pursue this with you. I want someone that's gonna hold me accountable. Hmm. Um, and I want to give you permission to do that and speak into my life. Like I think that's something that, because I know for me, like I might have my opinions about things, but I'm not necessarily always gonna vocalize it to you unless I know that like, you're okay with me. Now. If you're like, yes, straight off going the rails, I'll probably like, well, sure, sure. Right. You know, but like those little things in life or, I mean, it could be big things too, but just those kind of more personal things, I might not Right. Necessarily feel like, is it my place to say something until Yes. I feel like we're at that spot, and usually that's because we've had a conversation to put us in that
Kimber:place. Yeah. I love that, encouragement to literally like talk about it, like articulate permission. Yeah. Mm-hmm. To the people in your life that you would like this to be the standard of your friendship. Mm-hmm. Tell them like, yeah. And I think for me, this has looked like, literally saying like please tell me the truth on this. Like, you know, you have permission to Yep. Push back and tell me I'm missing it if I, if I, I just
Meghan:did that couple weeks ago. Yep. I was like, Hey, you know, I had, I had said something and was like, I, I'm actually asking for your opinion. Like, yes, please feel like you can tell me like, oh, okay. You know, like, I want to hear what you have to say. Don't feel like you have to hold back on this. So, yeah. Um,
Kimber:yeah, because it's such that like we've balance, I mean, we talked about it last episode too, of like, we're not our friend's, holy Spirit. Right? Right. And so I think that if we're gonna. On one side or the other of the line, we're probably gonna err on the side of not saying anything, right. If we're trying to like, be loving, you know? but I think there is space for this, like pushing back, challenging, stabbing in the front, in certain relationships. Because like you also said, I think the other thing to remember here is that this is not for every relationship. No, no. Every friendship.
Meghan:Not, there's be some people where I'm like, not everyone, okay, okay, thanks, bye. Like, I'm not, not that I don't care about, but I'm not gonna hold that as like tightly
Kimber:as I, I would with weight. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. Because I think it, yeah, it's, it has to be built on that foundation where you know that your heart for each other is love and flourishing and like Yeah. More of Jesus. Like that is the foundation. And so if that's established and you've like given permission to each other, That, that's gonna be like something that is a part of your relationship. Then when it comes through, it's not like you're not on the defensive, hopefully as much, or even if it does put you on the defensive, you're probably gonna come down from that a little bit faster because you remember Oh, like I literally asked them to do that. Yeah. And I know that they love me and I have Exactly. Yeah. I know their heart for
Meghan:me. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Kimber:And I think with that too though, it's like we still have to make sure that, the way that we're, I. Bringing it to someone is just like cloaked in love. Oh.'cause there's like, right, there's this idea, I think too, where it's like, oh well we're friends who just are honest with each other. And then that turns into just like, you suck.
Meghan:I can say
Kimber:anything. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I can say anything and I don't think that that is good either. No, no. So how do you feel like we kind of walk that line? Yeah. Well
Meghan:I think the first thing is like when I know I need to bring something to somebody is prayer. Mm-hmm. And is this, is this something where, this is just my opinion? Yeah. Is this just my like interpretation? And maybe that's part of the conversation that you have, but like, what are my motives in this? What are my like really breaking down? Like what do I wanna get out of this conversation and then taking that to them. but I think there's a whole behind the scenes process that kind of needs to be happening within your own heart of, yeah. When I bring this to them, um, I'm kind of like a, I tend to work through the scenarios in my head, so it's like, yeah, what is gonna happen if this goes really well? What am I gonna say? Mm. Right. What if this doesn't go well? Like what?'cause sometimes, and this has happened to me, I've been on both ends of this, like, where I have not received it well, um, or I've said something to someone, they haven't taken it well of like, they gave me permission and then I did it, and then they don't really want, they didn't really want it. Yeah. Yeah. Or I didn't really want to hear it at the time. Um
Kimber:mm-hmm. So, and that's still the risk, right? And that's
Meghan:still the risk that you take. But, um, but those have always worked out, you know what I mean? That's just another, like, you work through it or it's like, oh, I didn't handle that. Well, we're human. It's gonna happen. Um, yeah. But I think that it's just gotta be so heavily soaked in like the Holy Spirit of like, what are your words, grace, love. How can I be you in this moment and reach my friend, you know? Yeah. And then also know that they're gonna make their own decisions too. Like again, you're not the Holy Spirit. And so it's kind of one of those things where like, I speak this and then
Kimber:you do what you will. Right. But I don't control. Yeah. Right. I don't control. And I think that's where the motive comes back too. Like what do you want out of this? Like if your motive is just to like demonstrate how much you care about them and you want the best for them, like you love them, that kind of thing, then I feel like that. Is easier to hold the result loosely than if your motivation is like, well they need to fix this about their lives. Right. And
Meghan:they need to see it. They don't my way and do what I want, how I wanted them to do it. Yeah. Here's my step-by-step plan to fix your life. Please take care.
Kimber:It's gonna go. It's not, it's gonna go awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, that, that advice is, is so good because yeah, if, if there is a situation like this in, in your friendships, it's, yeah, it's a little bit tricky to navigate. Um, I feel like though, if we want to cultivate this kind of thing in a certain friendship again,'cause not in all of our friendships, but in one or two in our lives that we feel like have that foundational trust, you feel like you can, could receive that kind of thing from them in a way that would like, bless your life. Um, I think you kind of almost have to like lead the way in having that kind of conversation once you've had like, The conversation that is like, Hey, I wanna be friends who, who have this kind of a relationship. And they're like, yeah, that sounds good. Like, kind of thing. Like once you have that established, that like permission, I think sometimes we have to like be willing to lead the way in it. Yeah. And so, having that courage to like, bring this kind of thing to a friend, I think that is, man, that's nothing, that's not natural. That's hard to, no, it's hard.
Meghan:even the flip side of like, even if it's like you don't have something that you feel like you need to say to your friend of like, I see this in your life, but being like, here's what's happening in my heart and I need you to like even Yeah. What do you think? What do you think? Like, that might even be easier because I know for me it's a lot, it's been in the past a lot easier to do that versus like, Me being like, you're, I see this in your life. That's been a harder muscle for me to grow. Like I gotta really, nowhere we're solid before I like Right. Would go there, do that, would go there. Um, but, with some things it might just be, it doesn't have to be a major life thing, but just, Hey, like, this situation's happening. What do you think? What are your thoughts? And then I feel like that kind of starts to get that other friend to start to be like, oh, okay. So like, they're like teachable. They're receptive. They're, they're not on the defense. Like they're asking, they want this like fluid like word sharing our heart and back and forth, how can we back and forth? Yeah. Yeah. Back and forth. So I
Kimber:think that's a great way to lead the way in it. Mm-hmm. And like invite it. That's what you're doing. Yeah. Is you're like, you're asking for it uhhuh, like you've given permission, but then also you're asking for it and so yeah. I think that can start to establish it. I love too that you mentioned that like, this doesn't have to always be like a huge life thing, like Right. I feel like one of the ways that I see people in my life, Doing this idea of like challenging me or pushing back a little bit, is even in smaller things, like if we're talking about something you know, having a discussion about like a life situation or, you know, plans for the future, whatever it is. Like this can even just look like a friend who says, I don't know, is that wise or, yeah. Or like, I don't know. Like I kind of see it this way, you know? Yeah. Like even just having people in our lives that dialogue can look not just like us agreeing, but like, kinda actually discussing like in, in a yeah. In a relationship. And honestly, I feel like that doesn't happen as much in this day and age in friendship as maybe it could, like I think there's just so much more room for like healthy, uh, dialogue and disagreement that sometimes, like worldly friendship is afraid of. Yeah.'cause again, it's that like wanting to keep that artificial piece so we just like go along to get along as opposed to like challenging each other in our
Meghan:conversations. Right, right. No, I totally
Kimber:agree. Yeah. So how have you seen this kind of relationship? Like, bless your life, would you say? Like, why should we, why should we pursue it? Is it really all it's cracked up to be? Yeah. How have you seen this be a good thing?
Meghan:I mean, there's been moments where I'm like, is this all that this is going up
Kimber:to be because it's, this sucks. Yeah. It sucks.
Meghan:Like it doesn't always feel awesome. Mm-hmm. As the give or the receiver,
Kimber:it's hard, you know? Mm-hmm. It is hard.
Meghan:Mm-hmm. and for me, I would say that this is something that's been new to me since moving to Alaska of like mm-hmm. Like, I had really, I would say I had strong friendships, in other places, but here's been the first time where I feel like, oh, it's solid. Like we, we share like we're, we're not afraid to. And, and, I mean, I've kind of gone through a season recently where I've had some people come up to me and be like, Hey, you know, I'm seeing this in your life and I've had to do it recently with other, the same friends, you know, some of'em of like, Hey, I'm seeing this in your life. And so, it has blessed my life immensely. It's not always fun. It's not easy. Um, it brings us closer together as friends, because you are showing me your trust, you're showing me your loyalty in that moment of like, I. They're not walking away from me. And that's for me, like that's my biggest friendship. Fear is being rejected and being unwanted and walking away without like any explanation. So for me, I would much rather you just keep stabbing me in the front, do all the things than stab me in the back and walk away. Yeah. Like, I, you know. Yeah. So, for me, like you, you are showing kind of in a way your allegiance and your loyalty and faithfulness to me as a friend, when you get, you feel like that you can speak into that or hear it from me as well. Um,
Kimber:and so it's been I totally agree with that. Yeah. I think it like builds, it just like builds trust even. Yeah. Because like, clearly there's a choice in that moment, where the friend could just not say anything and distance.'cause they see that undesirable thing or that thing that they think is not maybe healthy or like, uh, leading to life or whatever, however the situation would say it. Um, and they can either like see it and distance or they can see it and confront it out of love for you. Mm-hmm. And a desire for your relationship to like be an honest one. Right. And that is, like you said, not the easy route. And so when I see someone take that, whether it's in like a small thing, like we're having a conversation and my friend is like, actually I don't think that you're seeing this the right way. You know? Right, right. And I'm like, oh, like, oh, you care enough about right. Not only what we're talking about, but also we're comfortable enough in our friendship to like, to have that push and pull. Yeah. And that just like, I love that. I think that that, makes me feel more confident in our relationship. And so yeah, I think that that idea of what it actually like focusing on what does it build, like what does the good that can come out of this, um, not just Right, the tension of the moment. Right. Um, I think it is can be good motivator there as well. For sure. For sure. Man. Well, I feel like, uh, this is, it can be such like a hard thing, but I definitely think that, as we're kind of closing out this series that just this. the whole call of the series has been to like, go to the hard places in our friendships to like go to the uncomfortable spaces, you know, to go there. Whether it's like in mourning or it's in, you know, and walking through grief with our friends. Like that's a hard space to go to or Yeah. You know, when, when we were talking about like, getting into scripture together, like that's not a conversation that's just gonna naturally come up in your friendship probably, unless you like go to that awkward space and it's the same, the same is true I think, for this kind of a thing is like, we're not going to naturally wanna push back in our friendships'cause easier to just go along to get along, but, right. Um, the depth that it builds, uh, I think is worth it, both for the friendship and just for us as people like friendships. Mm-hmm. it's like the, what is the saying about marriage that it's like, You know, it, it reveals your, your brokenness. It's not so that God can work in it. Isn't there a
Meghan:saying for it around something or it's like, is there like, you're like a mirror? I don't know. There's, there's probably a ton. There probably
Kimber:are anyway. But it's that idea that, you know, marriage reveals our brokenness and it works to, I think, uh, sharpen us or not sharpen us to, you know, soften our sharp edges because of that, like friction. Mm-hmm. And I think the same is true for our relationship just with our friends, right? Like it reveals these parts of our heart that our broken and need like a need geo redemptive work. And so often he wants to work through, or he chooses to work through our relationships with people. And I think that that is, It is really cool of him because it just shows how relational our God is. But yeah, it also hurts. It hurts too. Oh yeah. It sucks, I think in many ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, but I see the, I see the blessing that comes from it too, so, yeah.
Meghan:Absolutely. Yeah. Huge blessings.
Kimber:Well, um, as we kind of wrap up both today's talk and our series, um, we've just been closing out with the challenge for just how we can put these things into practice. So, Megan, what would you say for this idea of like, friends who challenge us, who push back in little things or in big things that are, feel more like a stab in the chest. Mm-hmm. Um, how do you think that we can take a step forward in fostering friendships? That, you challenge each other Yeah. And push back in.
Meghan:I think so for the challenge, what I thought of was just having that conversation with somebody of, Hey, I want to, um, the permission I wanna be held. Yeah. The permission conversation of I wanna be held accountable are you at that place in your life where you feel like our friendship is there? Where you want that to? Do you want accountability? What does that look like for a friendship? Yeah. but that, started, I kinda like always bring it back to yourself of like, I'm desiring this in my life. Yeah. Because I want to be like Jesus, or I, yeah. I wanna be a better wife and a better mom and all these things and yeah. Better friend, so can you help me with those things? And so have, have the permission conversation.
Kimber:I think that's really good. And that makes me think of too, like this may not always be in a peer-to-peer friendship. Mm-hmm. Like it could be just a one-sided thing where you don't have to like necessarily get them to give permission back. Like this might be in more of like a mentor relationship where you're just saying like, you have permission to speak into my life this way, but you're not expecting them to turn around and like say the same back to you necessarily. Yeah. Um, and so I think that can, could maybe be a good place to start too, because I think in a peer-to-peer, like a true peer relationship, this is harder to cultivate. It, it, I think it's still, it's a huge blessing in that kind of a relationship. But if you're just starting with like wanting someone. Who you know, is gonna like, hold you to this standard or like call you out on stuff to kind of check you. Mm-hmm. If you're just wanting like to start in that kind of, territory, uh, I almost might say start with like someone who's more of a mentor relationship. That's a great to you because that feels like a given. Like they're already like someone who's speaking into your life. And so practice articulating that there. Yeah. Because there's as much expectation for it to be reciprocal. Um,
Meghan:that's really good. No, that's awesome. Yeah.
Kimber:Yeah. That's so good. I think that could be a good caveat for that too. No, I love, that's challenge. Um, I think that's, That's so good for us friends. Um, man, we just wanna thank you Megan, so much for, uh, hanging out with us this summer. I have loved it. Um, and I know that our friends listening have just benefited so much from your wisdom and just your heart for community here. It's been, it's been a real blessing. So thank you for being with Oh, no.
Meghan:Thank you so much. No, this has been super, super fun just to be able to do this with you and talk about friendship, which I love. And, um mm-hmm. Yeah, so thank you everyone for tuning in and listening and I hope you guys just, I'd love to just hear about the friendships that are forming and the ways that Yeah. You know, either it's new or growing deeper with the ones you got. You know, just to keep, I love it. Keep pushing that
Kimber:forward. So yeah, if you know Megan in person, you can tell her in person, but for the rest of us, let's head over to social for that. Um, I know that that would be, I love hearing those kind of stories too, so that would be Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, thank you all so much for joining us for this summer series. Um, man, I just pray that you continue to take these conversations to your own friendships. That has been my prayer this whole time that these would be like springboard conversations that allow those relationships, real relationships in your life to just grow in ways that honor God and very closer to Jesus. So yeah. I'm so thankful for you guys listening and just for the space, so we love you guys. Same. Enjoy the last of your summer. Yes, yes. We'll talk later. Bye friends. Bye. Friends. I'm so glad that you could join me and Megan on the show this week. And thank you so much for joining us for this whole summer series. I have. I loved digging into this topic and I pray that these conversations spur you on. To dig into these topics with your friends too. If you haven't listened to the whole series, I invite you to go back and start at episode 52 called being the friend you need. Which launched this summer series and work through them as we go into the fall. I'll be taking a bit of a break from the podcast for a while. So this is the perfect opportunity to get caught up on old episodes that you missed or were just so good that you need another listen. Especially as I go on a bit of a break, I want to make sure that you have signed out to be part of my newsletter crew so that you can stay up to date on everything happening at your sister, Kimber. You can just visit your sister kimber.com and subscribe there. Friends. Thank you so much for spending part of your day with us. And this community is such a blessing to me, to my friendships. And I pray that is for you and yours as well. Until next time. It's your sister. Kimber.
