Why Introverts Make the Best Public Speakers & Communicators... (Yes, Really)

If you are an introvert who has thought thought “public speaking just isn't for me” this is your permission slip to think again.

In this episode, we’re sitting down with Salvatore Manzi—transformational speaker, communication coach, and the low-key legend who’s helped hundreds of leaders own the spotlight (without losing their voice or their mind).

We’re talking: The hidden superpowers introverts bring to the stage, how to reframe anxiety as excitement, and why pausing is your most powerful tool to becoming a better speaker and communicator.

Salvatore breaks down his frameworks, body language tricks, and mindset rituals that introverts can use to become magnetic, confident, and clear communicators—whether they’re leading a workshop, pitching an idea, or hitting the stage for the first time.

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Transcript

I have a lot of emotional support extroverts. I always take one with me when I go to parties. And I love watching that rhythm, especially network events or parties. Like, yeah, how do you do this? You just come up with thoughts and you just share everything. I love watching that whole rhythm. And I also love being the person that is only gonna say five things, but you're probably gonna remember those five things.

A lot of introverts feel like public speaking is only for extroverts, but you actually kind of flip that and you say that the introverts have an edge when it comes to public speaking. What is an introvert's edge? Introverts think before they speak. That edge makes the first thing out of their mouths more powerful. Introverts are often observers and they see things that people don't see.

And when you point things out to people that they don't see, they think you're wildly intelligent, whether or not you are. I know that as an introvert, I have a certain amount of energy to be around new people. I know that by getting up on a stage that I can use a small amount of energy to potentially connect with a large amount of people. So for me, I see it as a hack. I realized if I've got the spotlight on me, I can turn it.

I can take what I've seen in the room and redirect that spotlight exactly efficiently where it needs to go and maintain control and really own that spotlight in a leader way. It's a truth response in our amygdala brain. We actually respond to a person's presence, their body language, before we interpret their words. I became a better speaker when I was able to sit.

in like the pause after saying something. We all have what's called the delay bias. It's where we unintentionally assume that if a person doesn't answer immediately, then they're one short of a deck, whatever. The gold standard of a good communicator is being able to own the pause. There is nothing more powerful than a pause.

One to two second pause. People think that you lost your space. Fun fact, just wait an extra beat and then nobody will think it was by accident. They'll think, oh, this is a train speaker. Nobody will even forget, right? Just make it to three and you're good, right? Three to five is a good pause. And I don't mean to go into politics, but Obama was the master of the pause. They even call it the Obama pause. I don't know if you've heard of this. Put a pause where it doesn't naturally belong. Train yourself to start pausing in the sentence somewhere.

He wouldn't naturally put it. It's going to feel awkward, robotic at first, but soon you'll start mastering the anticipatory pause. Then you'll own the pause, hold it for 10 seconds. World-class speakers show your hands, slam dunk, we're done. If you've ever thought public speaking just isn't for me, then this is the episode for you. Today's guest, Salvatore Manzi, is a transformational speaker, coach, communication strategist, and author with over two decades of experience helping leaders and entrepreneurs turn their message into a catalyst for a change.

not just in business, but in life. So Salvatore, welcome to the show. Our clever crew is in for it. They better bust out your notebooks, take some notes today, because if you're the introvert listener, you definitely need to take notes today. So let's just start by talking about your own public speaking journey. How did you get started? Thank you. And again, see what a joy it is to be on here with you both. are such shining stars.

I got into public speaking because my dad was. He was a public speaking gay. He did the conference circuit a little bit and I was inspired so I got up on stages as well. I mean, I fell bad. I wiped up quite a few times. What I realized is the most public speaking training is geared towards extroverts. How to turn that natural charm, that extroverted charisma into public speaking training. There isn't a lot of

skill training around public speaking for introverts. So I took a deep dive into researching psychology and neuroscience, like what is it that makes my brain work a little bit differently and what would support me as an introvert when I'm thrown into the spotlight or I choose to go at it on my own. So I've frameworks, techniques, and principles, strategies around developing presence, and I've been working with data-driven leaders for the last 20 years.

helping them get on stage. That's amazing. I know that one of your frameworks talks about how to own the spotlight, how an introvert owns the spotlight. I'd to learn a little bit more about how you teach someone to go about doing that. Yeah. I mean, I want to unpack it with both of you because I know that you self-identified introverts as well. there's the... They self-identified? Loudly. We own it. In a safe space. Yes.

How do you overcome that fear of being in the spotlight? How do you use the introvert's natural inclinations to shine in that moment? And what are strategies to enable the parts that aren't so comfortable? But let me turn it to both of you. You're both keynote speakers. You both run workshops. You're mastering the internet already. What is it that you're trying to overcome that initial fear or whatever comes up for you?

One of the things that has helped me is to reframe in my mind what it means to show up. So I know that as an introvert, have a certain amount, a finite amount of energy to be around new people. And if I know I have a finite amount of energy, I know that by getting up on a stage, whether it's online or whether it's a virtual stage or an in-person stage, that I can...

use a small amount of energy to potentially connect with a large amount of people. So for me, I see it as a hack. Like because I'm an introvert, I need to learn how to use this tool because it's not possible for me to engage with this many people one-on-one or in smaller settings where my energy is just going to be drained. So that tool has really helped me to allow my business to grow and continue to connect with amazing people like you. Awesome.

Love that. totally agree with Candice. It's just efficient. It's way more efficient to be able to look at speaking that way for introverts. I also, and this was like a reflection from a friend of mine who also is an introvert. Candice, know, it's Dr. Jen Knight. She's a friend of ours who has a PhD in performance science, brilliant woman. was on the podcast about a year ago, but she was, you know, reflecting to me that introverts are often observers and they see things that people don't see.

And when you point things out to people that they don't see, they think you're wildly intelligent, whether or not you are. And so being able to use my quiet, shy powers of observation and my greater levels of emotional intelligence, I realized that that was a power. And I was able to kind of turn that lens around instead of keeping it to myself and share it with others.

I love that. I love that idea of like, I'm watching the room more closely than a lot of people. And I'm able to contribute in a unique way because I'm seeing and getting insights in different ways. And I love Candace, you have a reframe. That's perfect. I reframe that feeling. I'm getting up on the stage scary moment, but reframing it like that's the first thing I offer to is reframe it from nerves to excitement.

on the stage. feel the same. They feel the same. body doesn't know the difference. a biological perspective. Like I still get nervous. I just look at it as like apprehension energy instead of like, nervous breakdown energy, you know? Right? Right? I love that. It's, you're making me laugh. The neuroscience is that they are the same. And all we have to do is just tell ourselves that this isn't nervousness. This is actually excitement.

we retrain our brain in that moment to see it differently. We start to judge it differently and we show up differently. A-ha came from me when I realized if I've got the spotlight on me, I can turn it on other people. I'm not gonna be caught off guard. I'm not gonna be put in the spot. If I choose to jump on the horse,

then I don't have to be afraid of somebody else throwing the mic or the spotlight on me. I'm owning the space and redirecting that. And to Kat's comment, like I can take what I've seen in the room and redirect that spotlight exactly efficiently where it needs to go and maintain control and really own that spotlight in a leader way. Not just making it about me.

but actually sharing the love and pointing out the leaders and the perspectives and the visions that I've seen arise and the other people in the room. I too, Candice, I do a lot of workshops, trainings, facilitate these cohorts through sessions. I oftentimes work with a leader one-on-one when they're getting ready for a big stage presentation or speaking from the United Nations, but I work with their teams, taking them through like a cohort-based training to elevate their communication and...

after every one of those, I'm like, you don't talk to me. Don't anybody talk to me for like 24 hours. That's us. Give me give me a moment to read. Just like stare at a wall or like binge a TV show in sweatpants and just be like, that decompress time is clutch. It's non negotiable. What I didn't realize is there's value in having that before the session to

I have another introvert friend that tipped me off to this. Okay, I know I'm going into this four hour, like intense, high stakes meeting I've got to be on. I need to go put myself away for 45 minutes. One of my clients is the CEO of a major healthcare network and he has to get on stage in front of thousands of people and speak and he's sort of introverted himself. I don't know if he self identifies. I don't like to label people, but he will get the green room and you have 45 minutes.

with a weighted blanket to give himself that grounding. Yes. Or he goes on stage to get his grounding and then own that spotlight. Wow. I love a weighted blanket at home and I never thought to use it in that way, but that might be a thing. Yeah, I didn't either. just, did. Next time you see me in the green room, Kat, just let I'll just be like Candice is in her burrito phase pre-stage, like leave her be. She needs to hibernate and then she will come out to beautiful butterfly.

It's so beautiful. Some other strategies that help an introvert in the high stakes or in the spotlight moment is to give yourself grace. Like a lot of times, somebody will ask a question and I don't have an immediate response. But unlike an extrovert that's going to take me on this train of thought to their answer, I don't really want to be on, I'm going to think about my response.

then give it to you. And if you don't know me, you might think the porch light is on, but nobody's home, right? We all have what's called the delay bias. It's where we unintentionally assume that if a person doesn't answer immediately, then they're one short of a deck, whatever. one way that I, an introvert, work in those places is I give them some sort of response. I have a framework for answering questions. I start by clarifying their question immediately. Okay, well, let me just double check.

you're asking or sounds like you're wanting to or da, da, da, da, da, and buying myself time. I'm back here noodling for an answer, but I'm still connecting. I'm letting them know that I'm engaged. I'm engaged with their question. And nine times out of 10, if I throw it back and ask for clarification, they're going to go on because they love to hear themselves speak. Right. So people will go deeper on their question and then gives me the grace to do that. And sometimes I just go, oh, that's a question I want to give some thought to.

And I give them a sign tapping my forehead or rubbing my chin. I am a chin rubber. I don't know that I recommend that for everybody, but I'm a chin rubber to let them know I'm thinking. So I just watched an episode of Diary of a CEO and they were talking about body language specifically and body language when you're on stage. Yeah. since you brought that. Yeah. And one of the other things they mentioned was rubbing your hands together before you're going to say something juicy like.

this signals that something good is coming. Like this is when you should pick up a pen, right? Like this is gonna be the moment. And I was like, that is so subtle. And when I thought of that, I knew that that's what I think when I see someone doing that. But I just didn't have that tool in my toolkit. Like I just didn't have that as something that I was something that I was going to use, but I will use it now because I notice it when other people do it.

And I don't notice the gesture, I just notice, hey, this is an important moment. The association we have with it. the association, exactly. It's It's interesting. It's truce response in our amygdala brain. We actually respond to a person's presence, their body language, before we interpret their words. So it is an unconscious. And as an introvert, you're actually probably more heightened awareness to watching those little signals.

and you're picking up and you're preparing what you're going to say or how you're going to respond in response. It's something that Zoom somewhat took away from us. And that's why I always say, if you're on a virtual, be sure you put your hands in there. Be sure that we can see. Show them. Yes. I have nothing to hide. Yes, showing your hands makes you feel safe, which is such an interesting thing. One of the things that Kat and I are

constantly talking to our clever crew about and our clients about is your profile picture and how important your profile picture is across online platforms. And when I was listening to this episode, they were talking about how showing your hand in your profile picture also like just what you're doing now, that gesture, it can make someone feel like you are open to them and you are a safe person to talk to.

And I realized that some of Kat and I's profile pictures, we did that without really making that association. So Kat has her hands on her face and her profile picture. And then I had a profile picture where I had my headphones on and I was holding them. And that was the one that I got a lot of good feedback on. And I think it's the hands and knowing those things, there's subtle tips that can help you to elevate your brand or just who you are.

in the online space. It's so true. And it's instinctual. Again, it's from our primitive brain on this case. We think unconsciously this person might have a weapon. Until I see the palms of your hands, I'm concerned that you might have a weapon. So as soon as I see your hands, part of my brain is no longer checking, I safe? And it's just a little bit of hand. What I also love is if you're listening to somebody, letting them see that your hands are not occupied, not multitasking.

That kind of thing, right? You're connected with them in some way. funny these days when people have their phone in their hand 100 % of the time. know. It's like a ball and chain. So Salvatore, this was one thing I did a couple of weeks. So I did it in like, just a, I was kind of having a little temper tantrum with myself, if I'm being honest here with our clever crew. And I was just so over all the notifications, all the noise.

I deleted all my social media apps, all my email apps and my Slack messaging app off of my phone, like a month ago now. I love that. And you want to know what clever crew who just felt their heart drop into their stomach. Nobody cared and nobody noticed. And in fact, I feel like I'm even in more high demand energetically because I'm like not checking. And it's like the best time to get a job is when you already have a job, the best time to get a boyfriend's when you already have a boyfriend. And it was just.

We love dating analogies here at Not Nice Clever. Salvatore, I don't know if we mentioned that. Okay. I want to start using those. don't have them ready, but I will start going in that. I love the freedom of not having notifications. I recently signed up for Substack and I did the same thing. I finally just deleted it because my phone was blowing up and my watch was blowing up and I'm like, can't handle. Okay. I love it. I love you all sharing, but I can't handle all of this input. Yeah.

Probably a good idea to delete some of the apps. I just live with no notifications on, even my text messages sound like it's not on. I just check my phone when I can check my phone. And that really works for me because as an introvert specifically, I think it's too much input. Can I do that with people? I'm kidding. It's not like this is recorded or anything. No.

I have my phone set to only let me know when my parents or key people call. Like your favorite list. Yeah. The rest of the time it's always on Apple has this thing right now for like, they judge whether it's an appropriate interruption or not. They're usually pretty right. I love that. So a lot of introverts kind of getting back on track to, as I know the clever crew has questions. We love our tangents.

So a lot of introverts feel like public speaking is only for extroverts, but you actually kind of flip that and you say that the introverts have an edge when it comes to public speaking. What is an introvert's edge?

think before you speak. Introverts think before they speak. That edge makes the first thing out of their mouths more powerful, more worthy of listening to. When an introvert speaks, we typically know that we're going to get some solid bars.

Whereas if we listen to an extrovert, we know we're going to be kind of getting to it and then we'll get to a point and we'll finally understand where we were going and we'll have like an aha epiphany along the way, which is fun. But an introvert, the strength is in thinking before you speak. That is so valuable. And as an introvert, I can be sometimes, I don't know, I have a lot of emotional support extroverts. I always take one with me when I go to parties. Buddy system, yes. Yes.

Watching that rhythm where it's just this especially network events or parties. You can just like hang back How do you do this? You just come up with thoughts and you just share everything and it's like um, I love watching that whole rhythm and I also love being the person that is only gonna say five things But you're probably gonna remember those five things Yeah Less is more

That has been my mantra with clients this year and just in general. think we, this is a thing that I also learned. wonder your take on it, Salvatore, where I became a better speaker when I was able to sit in like the pause after saying something.

and to use silence as a way to communicate my message. That was really hard for me and now it's easier.

It's the gold standard of a good communicator is being able to own the pause. There is nothing more powerful than a pause. When I first started out, my coach got me up to 10 seconds and I know you're thinking 10 second pause, that's ridiculous. But Seth Godin, I don't know if you have thought later, you probably have. We know him, yeah. He says, you know, one to two second pause, people think that you lost your space, like legit.

Fun fact, just wait an extra beat and then nobody will think it was by accident. They'll think, this is a trained speaker. Nobody will think you forgot, right? Just make it to three and you're good, right? Three to five is a good pause. Stretch yourself to get all the way up to 10 seconds. And what happens?

Even the people that are on their phone are going to look up to see what is it? What is the person it's better than this. And loving. Yeah, it's gonna cause people to look up and be like, what's happening? And yeah, owning that pause. I don't mean, I don't want to call it any spit. I don't mean to go into politics. But Obama was the master of the pause. even call it the Obama pause. I don't know if you've heard of this. We have. I have. Yeah.

And he would get a question and he would take a pause and everybody appreciated it because everybody knew he's thinking about his answer and what he's gonna say is gonna have greater value because he thought about it for a minute. Yeah, the Obama pause. Anytime you can pause. Here's the challenge with pauses, especially for introverts. If you pause at a period or at a comma, it's expected. People are expecting and that's where they're gonna jump in. That's where you get interrupted.

That's where somebody else jumps in and tries to the idea or whatever, because they think you're done, or at least they hope you're done so that they can share their thought that they've been wanting to share. If you learn how to master

the anticipatory pause. Put a pause where it doesn't naturally belong. Train yourself to start pausing in the sentence somewhere

that you wouldn't naturally put it. It's gonna feel awkward, robotic at first, but soon you'll start mastering the anticipatory pause. Then you'll own the pause, hold it for 10 seconds, world-class speakers show your hands, slam dunk, we're done. Keep the distance between the ear and the shoulder. so simple. So what is one mistake that you see over and over again?

when you see maybe new speakers or people who identify as introverts? There is just two things. I appreciate this question because it really goes into the specificity of how introverts show up on the stage or show up in a meeting to speak and where the common missteps are. I think there are two basic missteps that come up. One is in oversharing data. In the sense of

I've received your answer and I'm going to give you the, I'm going to receive your question. I'm going to give you a response and I'm going to keep layering in data and data and data until I see you respond to me. And it's, it's a misnomer because, okay, so my, my wheelhouse is working with STEM professionals, scientists, engineers, analysts, financial advisors, data people that are numbers and all that kind of thing.

They have the data, right? Because introverts love numbers. Introverts love data. it's proof. It's the receipts. We're like, if the little voice in our head says it's not good enough, we're like, no, no, but look at the receipts. The receipts are here. I love that. I think it's our response to imposter syndrome because we don't have to feel like an imposter if we're using facts, data. It's right here. Yeah. This numbers speak for themselves.

They don't. Numbers don't mean anything. Okay, sorry. Let's let you talk. We're just like so excited. Guys, this is what happens when get three introverts in a room. This is happens. We can't shut up. The idea of oversharing data is a challenge. And I think it's because we have so much data and most people believe if I give you all the data, you're going to come to the same conclusion because it's inevitable. has the math problem does end on X. It's fine.

We're going to get there, count the receipts. So cutting myself off using metaphors to paint a picture of what the data actually represents, put it into terms that people understand. I think that's the first mistake that a lot of introverts make. The second is in that gap when they're thinking about their answer. The people, certain people, especially key decision makers up the ranks,

like to know your train of thought. They like to know how you got there. And if I'm an introvert watching a meeting, I'm watching the chaos, I saw the solution five minutes ago. Right? And so when it comes to me, I'm just going to, here's the answer. And everybody else in the room is like,

But and then they want to argue and then they want to debate because a they didn't get there with you. You're laughing cat. Why? Because this is why I didn't survive in corporate. That's my MO. I see deep. see quickly and I don't have the patience to explain. Just trust me that it's correct. Otherwise I wouldn't have said it. Right. This is what you're paying me for. So I'm a consultant. That's why I'm a consultant. Consultants get paid for direct. Yes, it's true. We do. We do.

And if you're not a consultant and you're an employee and wanting to make friends with a higher up so that you can make that ladder, you have to kind of take them along the process. I'm not saying play stupid, but you almost have to solve the logic puzzle from A to B to C so they can follow the train of thought. Because if you just come in with the solution, it's not, too much to process for their little brains. Okay. I don't mean to be insulting. Yes, it's really all about.

Context and ensuring that people are operating within that context that you are so that they can feel like they get it Yeah Yeah, there's a good speaker isn't Just sharing their knowledge. The good speaker is bringing the audience along so that the audience feels like they're part of it Yeah, something you said Candice in the previous episode that really got to me is share the scars not the wounds Mm-hmm. didn't make that up. Just so you guys know

Someone shared that with me in that stuff. See, and humble too. It did stick. There's a need for an emotion as well as the data. People are human. We're feeling people. So if I'm just getting data, I'm not able to fully process the meaning of the data. But if I can read the emotion in

in your face or in your body language or in your tone of voice, I'm going to better be able to resonate, align, and make a decision aligned with you as we go forward. And I'm not saying we have to go out there and wear our hearts on our sleeves. We don't need to go in and like talk about the wound. We can point to the scar and explain the emotion. Everybody, everybody wants to go on an emotional roller coaster and a good keynote speech.

and a good introduction, we're talking about the rain and we're talking about the sunshine, right? Yes. So totally take a ride. Speaking of, you know, being on stage, I have been lucky enough to be described as, and I know Candice has, and I've seen her in action too, when we're together, when she's presenting solo, but people really love to say like, you just have it, like you're so magnetic, you've got it, you've got the charisma and

It didn't make sense to me until I started understanding what goes into having your own charisma and understanding how to have your own like center of gravity and your own magnetic presence. So what would be some tips you would share with some someone who's newer to speaking? How can they start to develop their own magnetic presence and start to discover their own charisma? What a great question. I mean, obviously you just have to be a Scorpio or Scorpio rising and you'd be fine.

I mean, obviously, obviously.

What is it for you when you say it? Like, what is it when you see somebody on stage? What's that it that you're feeling? They just like, I can't look away and they seem so comfortable. And when I see people, I know speaking on stage and I see them being themselves on stage, but just maybe a little bit, a little bit more magnified and them enjoying themselves.

and them feeling comfortable, like it's just, you just can't look away. You know, it's like a good TV show, but in the form of seeing somebody you know speaking on stage for 20 minutes or 30 minutes. That's it for me. Love that. Confidence, eye contact, body language is huge for me. You could tell if someone wants to be on stage or if they're shying away from being on stage. Honestly, what people are wearing on stage,

also is something that tells me how they feel.

Okay, we can pull this. Let's pull that one back a minute. Let's talk about it. Okay, we'll come back. I agree with what you're saying. When I look up on the stage and I can't look away, there's something compelling. It's compelling. It's like watching a beautiful butterfly or a flower that just got lit up by the sun. There's something about it. It's that authenticity combined with comfort together.

It allows them to be fully themselves and it's so pure and so real that you can't look away from it. There's something genuine in there. And it takes a couple of things. One, it takes self-awareness of knowing who you are. Have you done the work to build your own self-awareness? Is there a part of your brain that's saying, you know, I'm still kind of a fake in that I don't really do this part of my life.

appropriately or I haven't figured this out or I'm still noodling or figuring whatever it is or is there is there alignment with you who you are do you are you a person of integrity and showing up with integrity so are you Self-aware enough with that. The second part is physiology you brought up the ear to shoulder ratio the the circle of power the circle of influence of using this part of your body as you're doing hand gestures, but

There's something about opening the chest, shoulders back, having that chest plate up and breathing in. It sends signals to the brain that tells you that you're comfortable, that it tells you that you're safe in this place. I don't know. I identify as hypervigilant, constantly scanning the room for danger, maybe a little more than I need to. We could go into my childhood. We won't go into my childhood. We'll save that for another episode. That'll be another episode.

The counteract to that is to physically take up space with my body. Yes. Until it starts to feel comfortable. Because our natural incondition is to comfort, to make ourselves small and to feel comfortable and comfort ourselves. When we can take up more space, our physiology tells us that, we're okay. We're going to be fine here. And then our voice changes and our presence changes and the

quality of our conversation changes. Those are some of the things I would point to. I certainly don't have all the answers, but when it comes to introverts, I will say one of the biggest things to do is change your space. Just take up more space. Literally go into the meeting and put your elbows out on the table and spread wide.

When you mentioned that, I'm immediately thinking about Alex Hermosy when we were at Forward last summer and he was there and Neil was interviewing him. They did like an interview on stage where there was two chairs and they were both sitting in the chairs and they were kind of like those big deep chairs and Alex sat down and he has his arms on top of the, yes, he didn't have his arms down because they were like big deep chairs, he would have been small.

So to take up space, of course he has his legs wide, he has his arms on the chair and he's taking that whole space up. And then I was also trying to imagine myself as a woman doing that. And how does that look? Does it look different? I don't know. I haven't sat in one of those chairs. Not on that scale. Not on that scale. it's literally is a huge chair, right? And so what does that do to me and my presence? Literally the...

furniture on the stage, whether it's made or not made for me, you know? And I think that's an interesting thing to think about. And as a speaker, I might ask more questions now when I'm going like, hey, send me a picture of what the stage looks like, what's the setup look like. So I can prepare for that. And actually, now that I think about it, I was with my friend Giselle, who's also a speaker. She speaks all around the world. And we were picking out her outfit for a talk and she's

She literally sat down and said, okay, how does the outfit look? Because it had like a train. How does the outfit look here? Or if I sit like this, how does it look? And she did that at the boutique before even heading to stage. She was thinking about, is this laying right? Does this look right? And just want to give you guys a behind the scenes clever crew. If you are entering this space, there are these things that help to think about ahead of time. Boom, there's the next tip.

Visualization. Walk yourself through the process, whatever it is. If you have a high stakes meeting, if you have a keynote address, if you have a moment that you have to be in the spotlight, visualize yourself going through the process and you'll pick up the little, I need to make sure I check this and I need to make sure I do this first and I need to check this and always in your visualization with the feeling. The mind works more from feeling than it does from just the

the thoughts of it. gotta have the feeling of it as well. So what is the feeling you wanna have when you're in that spotlight? Comfort, ease, resourcefulness, agility, whatever it is. Coat your mind into that during the visualization and you will do better when you actually get to that moment. I have a quick anecdote to share with our clever crew and I'd love to get your take on it, Salvatore. So I...

I do visualization and it's a recent thing that I've done and it's really helped me a lot. And I recently visualized doing a workshop from stage, but imagining that when we get into the exercises, I'm going to get off the stage and walk in and around the tables so that I can engage with people who are going through the workbook exercises. I can write on the flip chart paper with them, right? And then go back up on stage in between the exercises. I had this whole thing blocked out in my mind.

And then I get there and 10 minutes before I'm supposed to go live, the sound guy mics me up. He's using a lav mic, which means it's just a mic that's on your clothes. So I don't have to deal with a microphone and I can let my Italian hands talk the way that they talk. and the sound guy tells me I can't get off the stage because I will, there'll be interference from the speakers and that they only set up the sound for me to be on stage and not to walk around the tables. And this is 10 minutes before I'm supposed to go live in front of 150 people.

And y'all like, whatever things are going wrong, like things will go wrong. And you just, I just had to be like, okay, so that's out the window. Like, what do we do now? And I just had to pivot and I maintained myself pretty well. And like it, went off well, but I'd love for some tips from you about when something goes wrong or if they're imagining something going wrong. Cause it's never as scary as it actually is in the moment.

And I don't want that to hold people back from starting their speaking journey. So just wanted to share that and get your take on it. love, I love the story and who hasn't had the PowerPoint didn't work. The mic didn't work. The slides are out of order. Like there's like anytime tech is always whatever. doesn't want to be our friend. What did you do? What was, what was the hack then now to let it go? was it? Well, I mentioned it and I owned it early on.

And yeah. And then I also, basically when I was instructing them to start each of the exercises, I would kind of walk back and forth. And then I'd like, you know, somebody getting stuck, like, where are you at? Like somebody raise your hand, like let's workshop your, your response right now. So I made it almost like a live Q and a, as we went through each of the work, the exercises, it probably wasn't as effective, but still effective. And I just had to like, let my inner perfectionist like be silenced in that moment.

Someone who wasn't live in attendance but saw all the clips online. It looked pro. It looked great. You would never have known that she didn't. Yeah, that she didn't, you know, plan. It didn't go as planned. flawless. I love it. Nice pivot. And I love the pivot to workshopping individual people. I, you know, what do you do in that moment when you have it? I like that you had a moment of

Reckoning with your perfectionist. I have a perfectionist. His name is Perry Perry comes online every time I get up to speak in front of buddy and Perry's like, you missed that word now they're not listening to you. now that did not make any sense, right? So I have learned to ask Perry Sit over there until I'm done And then we'll talk Disconnecting and having that moment of like I hear you. That's your voice. I hear you. Here was the aha though I can't shut him up the key

won't shut up, but I can't ask him to hold it. So if I ask him to just sit over there for a minute, and then afterwards go and say, Okay, what did you notice and give him a moment to breathe through it. And I mean, like, that's a good point. No, no, that one's not good. Okay, that was a good point. And then I work with my perfectionist. I'm getting to a deeper level here. And that is what are the beliefs that drive the way I show up. And that's the third book. know you have

structure, you have your frameworks, how is your content organized, how are you communicating your data. Research tells us if you put it in this order it's easier for the mind to process, so I have frameworks. Delivery are the techniques that you use to use your body, your voice, your eyes, your hands, all of that. How do you actually make sure that your body is communicating congruent with your message. But that third bucket is what's everything else? What is everything else that's driving the way that you show up?

in that moment that gives you a sense of agility or doubt. I have confidence or imposter. Like what are the beliefs? And I make fun of it and I also point out my parry is a driver in my beliefs. I'm not good enough if I don't hit perfect. And so my working with that parry has given me a chance to take those moments and pivot and be like, okay.

We'll do something new. We'll have something new. All right. That's a really long answer for a short question. Sorry for that. But one opportunity when that chaos comes is like you said, own it, call it out. Don't try to follow up. Don't try to hold it in. Call it, oh, this isn't what I planned for. Just letting out a little bit of this team. That was really good to like almost confess, right? And you're just like, and they're not mad. Nobody was mad. They laughed actually.

I was like, I can't step too close to the speaker. Cause the sound guy said I'd make everybody deaf with the feedback. So like, let me just like go back over here. Like you turned it into a joke. You turned me into pleasure. This is amazing. Yeah. Own it, name it, develop a relationship with the parts of you that are keeping you from showing up as your full authentic self in any situation. And you'll be able to better navigate those awkward.

which you're going to have them and thank goodness. Like I say every opportunity to make a mistake is an opportunity to grow, right? Get on stage, make a mistake, fall on your face. You're going to learn from that more than you're going to learn from a few applause and standing ovations. I truly.

I have. Yeah, we all have learned so much from things that didn't go the way we planned and making adjustments as we go. But one thing that you mentioned earlier was your client who has the blanket before they go on. Are there any other rituals that you or your clients do prior to going on stage that have really helped them to really be in the spotlight and own the spotlight? I love

this. It's like I planted you with this question or something. So I facilitated a session at the World Economic Forum. And going into that, my imposter monster was in full rage mode. And my coach called me up, I was in the conference room and we marched while he was on the I marched around that conference table while he was giving me all of these presupposed positive questions. called a-for-mations. Heard of it? Noah St. John?

Look it up. Look it up tribe. Noah saying John, affirmations, they're questions that pose the positive. Like, and he'd be like, how do, why should they listen to you? How do you add value? Why does your voice matter? And like after 10 minutes of marching around answering these questions, I was hyped. I was hyped up. I was ready to go. So the aha for me is ritual number one. Have your presupposed questions.

You know that that moment before you have to speak, you're going to start having like, am I ready? I ready? Am I ready? No, don't ask that question. Because the only answer to that question, we're not. I could always use more time to prepare for this. Right. But the question is, how do I know I'm ready? How do I know that I can speak on this? How do I know that I have a valuable thing to share? How do I know?

Asking a question that presupposes the positive retrains the brain and the focus so that I can move forward in a supportive and resourceful way. That's ritual number one. I have a question because I know the clever crew is going to say, not all of us have a coach who can just call us at that perfect moment. What do you do then? You call these two ladies right here. What are we talking? There you go. There we go. You call them up. think their numbers are available. They're the show notes.

You need somebody who's, you need an ally. I always tell my special interverse, especially women, don't go into a meeting if you don't know who your ally is in that meeting. You need somebody to amplify your voice. Women get talked over all the time in meetings and they came up with this amplify formula in the Obama White House. don't know if you heard about it. Women would amplify what another woman said. as she just said.

As she just said, and they echo and keep the amplification happening, name your ally, have an ally, call your ally, coach, mentor, these two lovely ladies, before your moment to get you hyped up so that you can go in. And if you don't have it, have a list of questions that you ask yourself. How do know I had value? Why should they listen to me? Why am I a good voice today? What am I going to learn today?

Have those questions ready. And are these types of questions going to be in your book, Salvatore? They are in the book, yes. There is a part on like reframing the mental state, working on the mindset, using affirmations to reset your mind so that you can show up with more presence. Oftentimes the best question to ask is like, why am I doing this?

If I have a real clear idea of my purpose in that moment, it's going to help drive me forward. Yeah. It's going to be in my book. Thanks for talking about my book. Clearing Compelling should be out in another month or so, but it is a concise playbook on frameworks, techniques, and strategies to elevate your communication specifically for data-driven, tech-friendly, introverted people. I love how you whispered that. You were like, just...

So nobody knows. Nobody knows you're an introvert. It's okay. It's okay. Not everybody likes to be labeled with that. So I don't like to label people. but that is my, it's an introvert in mind. There we go. That's what we say. Like with not everyone, with an introvert in mind. Yeah. This is our take on things like from the lens of us being introverts in business. That's the lens. Take it or leave it. And this is where I'm lacking you to brand specialists. Like

gurus in this place. You have ways of formulating this. Like I just got a tip for you. Thank you. I'm going to say that in mine. That's going be my Salvatore. One of my biggest fears is writing a book. So I want to know, I feel like, and I know this is silly, but I feel like the things that I thought three years ago, I don't think anymore. And so writing a book seems like it's going to just pause the specific moment in time.

And if someone reads it five years later, I don't even believe any of that anymore. I'm going to feel like an imposter. Even though I know that I'm just a human being growing and I'm just sharing what I know at that moment and what I believe at that moment. There's something really scary about a record of that being so concrete, I guess. It's so real.

of you right now because you just spoke my heart. I've been doing this for almost 20 years and I'm finally writing the book. What the F? Congratulations. I'm so happy for you. That's such a huge accomplishment. That is the real struggle because my strategies, my framework's kept evolving and I'm like, if it's decided at some point, I just got to put it down. But guys, that's where you can do a volume two.

And a volume 27 and a volume 68. We don't want to like, I love your Scorpio energy and going deep and thinking boldly, but don't get stuck on going deep. in the words of Dory, just keep swimming, just keep going. Drop it every few years. think about what I tell my clients who tell me essentially the same thing about social media. I think social media just moves more quickly.

And people forget what you said last year, right? Like that's different. But yeah, but a book seems permanent. Yes, so permanent. It's like etched in stone, like the command. Yes. can never take it back. Well, remember that time that you wrote? Which? 87. 87. There we go. I love that we both ended in a 7. John Oliver, I love.

their shows, but my fear is like, I don't want them to ever take a deep dive on my life. don't want to a picture from, nevermind. won't even go into it. was a very scary night. Talking to two California girls here. So we can only imagine. can only imagine. Well, congratulations on the book. Remind the clever crew again, what is the name of the book and where can they find it? Clear and compelling.

It is communication strategies for big thinkers with bold ideas and it will be available on Amazon, hopefully next month, which is May. And if not, you can always come to my website, self-adornmanzy.com and find it there. We're going to be dropping the links in the show notes so you guys can find links there. And we are going to wrap up our episode with our favorite segment, which is called not nice advice. This is where one of our clever crew members,

drops a question and we just give it to them straight. There's no fluff. We're not trying to beat around the bush. We just not nice advice. Okay, Kat, you want to read it? Yeah. So this is from someone who wrote in. they said, one of my goals this year is leading an online workshop, but I have no idea where to really start. How do people go from having an idea to actually pitching themselves as a speaker?

And what do I need to have ready before I put myself out there? Signed, stuck between a vision and a vibe. You have a vision of something great. Now it's time to make it concrete. Step one is to get clear on what are your three main talking points. What are the three buckets that you're going to share as gold? Step two is buy my book and then you'll see the framework.

You want to start small, you need to get a group of friends and try it out with them. Talk it out with them. Give a little mini workshop on it. Find out what works. What were the aspects of the gold nuggets that you have to offer? What landed? How can you shape that a little bit better? After two or three times, you'll start to understand, okay, this is what my workshop is going to look like. This is how I'm going to interact. These are when...

Then you can put it together, start offering it to bigger organizations, go to associations, go to meetup.com, ask any organization, hey, can I come and share this thing? Get a couple of recordings of you doing it, get those videos ready, talk to these ladies about making it a social platform and launching, and then start pitching yourself onto the stages. You've got your demo reel, you've got your content, and you're ready to become a highly paid keynote speaker. Voila. 20 years of expertise in 90 seconds, y'all.

And have fun doing it clearly. It's the only way to move. It really is. Well, thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate you sharing all of your nuggets of wisdom with us. We're definitely going to check out Clear and Compelling. We're definitely going to check out Clear and Compelling. And we are so excited for your launch. Good luck. Thank you.

It's really been fun being with you too on this and I love your podcast. Keep doing it. Keep moving the needle for all of us introverts. Appreciate you. Thanks for joining us on Not Nice, Clever. Remember to follow Not Nice, Clever wherever you listen to audio. And if you haven't already, drop that five star review. Share your takeaways. Tell us your story. We love to hear it. Signing off, you're not so nice, but so clever besties that mean business. See you soon.