Stacey Sher (Acclaimed Producer) on Pulp Fiction, Jersey Films, and Movies That Changed the Culture

In this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sits down with two-time Academy Award-nominated producer Stacey Sher, the creative force behind some of Hollywood's most unconventional and influential films. From executive producing Pulp Fiction to producing Django Unchained, Out of Sight, Erin Brockovich, Get Shorty, Reality Bites, Man on the Moon, and The Hateful Eight, Stacey has built a career through her collaborations with visionary directors like Quentin Tarantino, Steven Soderbergh, and Danny DeVito. Her work demonstrates exceptional taste and the rare ability to bridge indie passion projects with mainstream success.

Lessons from a Family Crisis (09:12) Stacey opens up about her personal life during her early career, how it informed her storytelling choices, and the impact it had on her perspective of Hollywood hierarchy and loyalty.

Finding Great Material Through Unconventional Methods (16:03) Stacey reveals her mentor Lynda Obst's genius strategy of scouring "Filming in the Future" columns to identify scripts with great cast attachments, which led her to discover Reservoir Dogs and meet Quentin Tarantino.

Warren Beatty's Career-Defining Question (27:44) At age 26, Warren Beatty asked Stacey what kind of movies she wanted to make, leading to his profound advice: "Do you want to have various children or marry various men? Because that's the same commitment you need to have to the movies that you make."

The Birth of Jersey Films and Creative Freedom (28:15) How Stacey became a founding partner with Danny DeVito and Michael Shamberg, using their discretionary fund to make blind deals with emerging talent like Quentin Tarantino before he'd directed a single frame.

Hollywood's Most Beloved Collaborators (35:11) Stacey shares insights on working with industry legends: Stephen Soderbergh, Julia Roberts, George Clooney, John Travolta's generosity, and Hillary Swank's determination to use her Oscar win to get Freedom Writers made.

Django Unchained and Controversial Testing (41:03) Stacey shares the remarkable story of how Django Unchained tested similarly across demographic groups, including a screening in the Deep South.

Stacey demonstrates how authentic relationships, unwavering taste, and commitment to meaningful stories can create a lasting impact on cinema and culture.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Stacey Sher
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Stacey Sher:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stacey_Sher
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0792049/
X: https://x.com/staceysher?lang=en

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Transcript

Podcast: Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Research Expert Kevin Goetz
Guest: Stacey Sher

Interview Transcript:

Announcer (00:03):

From script to screen, every film is brought to life by visionary creatives and executives, all sharing one mission – to captivate the audience. Hosted by award-winning movie strategist, Kevin Goetz, our podcast, Don't Kill The Messenger, offers a filmmaking masterclass through intimate conversations with Hollywood's most influential voices. And now, your host, Kevin Goetz.

Kevin Goetz (00:29):

Few producers can say they've helped launch a film that changed Hollywood overnight. My guest today, Stacey Sher, is one of those people as an executive producer on Pulp Fiction, she helped bring it to the screen and prove that independent films could stand toe to toe with studio blockbusters. Since then, she's built a career defined by fearless choices, eclectic storytelling, and a rare ability to bridge the worlds of indie passion projects and mainstream hits. As a partner in Jersey Films with Danny DeVito and Michael Shamberg, and through her longtime collaborations with Quentin Tarantino and Stephen Soderbergh, she has cemented her place as one of Hollywood's most influential producers, shaping the cultural conversation while also finding commercial success. Stacey, I cannot tell you how excited I am to have you here today.

Stacey Sher (01:28):

I always love seeing you, Kevin.

Kevin Goetz (01:30):

Stacey, let's just cut to the chase. We found out we have a very fun connection, <laugh>. I grew up in East Brunswick, New Jersey, and on our block, one of my best friends growing up was called Mark Londa, and his father was Ivan Londa. And then Ivan Londa got married.

Stacey Sher (01:48):

Married, my Aunt Carol. So after Ivan's wife passed away and after my uncle, who's

Kevin Goetz (01:54):

Marilyn, let's say, her name was Marilyn.

Stacey Sher (01:56):

I didn't know her.

Kevin Goetz (01:57):

So she was lovely and wonderful and she was also like family when Marilyn passed away.

Stacey Sher (02:01):

And my uncle Michael passed away, my Aunt Carol met Ivan and they've been happily married for years now.

Kevin Goetz (02:08):

Isn't that crazy? I'm looking at our engineer, Gary, who's going, wow. So here's the thing. How did we learn that? And now I'm thinking because I got in touch with Ivan and I met him and he introduced me to Carol. I think they came out here and one of the first things she said is, my niece is in the movie business. And I'm like, okay, I'm never gonna know who the hell this person is. And she says, it's Stacey Sher. And I'm like, you are kidding me.

Stacey Sher (02:33):

Yeah. I think they were out here for my mom's 80th birthday party.

Kevin Goetz (02:38):

Is your mom still with us?

Stacey Sher (02:39):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (02:39):

Alright.

Stacey Sher (02:40):

And Carol and Ivan were here and my cousin Tracy was here.

Kevin Goetz (02:45):

What's your mom's name?

Stacey Sher (02:46):

Jessica Sher. She always gets short shrift.

Kevin Goetz (02:48):

<laugh>.

Stacey Sher (02:48):

So we don't wanna give it to her. She always gets short shrift and is blamed as the person who didn't wait for me to see Jaws when I went off to summer camp and saw it without me the day I left.

Kevin Goetz (02:59):

Ooh.

Stacey Sher (03:00):

It was a long-time feud that was finally overcome when we all went as a family to see it at the Hollywood Bowl when it was conducted live. So the Jaws beef was buried.

Kevin Goetz (03:10):

John Williams did that. I heard him conduct. It's unbelievable.

Stacey Sher (03:13):

It was amazing. We all got socks.

Kevin Goetz (03:16):

<laugh> people come with their lightsabers and all sorts of weird, I mean it's incredible.

Stacey Sher (03:21):

The Hollywood Bowl film series are incredible.

Kevin Goetz (03:24):

Incredible, incredible. Okay. We've seen each other at a few, few previews.

Stacey Sher (03:27):

Yes, we have.

Kevin Goetz (03:28):

I mean we really do go back like almost three decades. I wanna say the first screening we did, was it Pulp Fiction? He actually tested the movie. I remember being in Portland, Oregon. Do you remember that? Stacey?

Stacey Sher (03:39):

You know, I feel like the movie was already locked. It was tested when it had already won the Palm D’Or. So none of those screenings on the QT movies were ever done. And I'm sure you even remember on that.

Kevin Goetz (03:54):

Was as diagnostic

Stacey Sher (03:56):

Exercises. Marketing. Yeah. They were more marketing exercises. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And of course, I'm sure you remember that he introduced that screening.

Kevin Goetz (04:02):

I remember it very,

*Stacey Sher (04:03):

And continues to do that on everyone. So it was, you know, how many of you saw Reservoir Dogs? How many of you saw Natural Born Killers? How many of you saw True Romance? How many of you saw Remains of the Day? Get the fuck outta here <laugh> because Remains of the Day came out around that time. And of course, Tony Scott had directed True Romance and Oliver Stone had directed natural born killers.

Kevin Goetz (04:25):

Yeah, exactly.

Stacey Sher (04:26):

So I think he was really looking for people who understood the kinds of movies that he was trying to make.

Kevin Goetz (04:33):

Well, when did you see the originality of Quentin's work? How did you get that pick up on it?

Stacey Sher (04:40):

My, my first boss, Lynda Obst, one of the things,

Kevin Goetz (04:44):

Hold on, we gotta stop for a call out, my girl and Debra Hill. Right?

Stacey Sher (04:49):

Debra Hill was one of the great humans of all time.

Kevin Goetz (04:52):

Just fantastic.

Stacey Sher (04:52):

And yeah, she

Kevin Goetz (04:53):

What a terrible end.

Stacey Sher (04:55):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (04:55):

That was too way too early.

Stacey Sher (04:56):

Way too early. Way too early. We had her after she had her surgery because she had to have both her legs amputated and then ultimately she succumbed to the cancer. It had spread because she was the greatest spirit in the world. We had her 54th birthday party at my house and she wanted Studio 54 and it was a disco party. And because she liked to run everything, she dictated what the menu would be at my house, <laugh> exactly what we would have and everything about it.

Kevin Goetz (05:25):

Did you work on Adventures in Babysitting?

Stacey Sher (05:28):

That was the movie that I got my job through.

Kevin Goetz (05:30):

Because I screened that movie. We tested it in Burbank. Do you remember that?

Stacey Sher (05:34):

Of course. It's by the Best Buy.

Kevin Goetz (05:36):

Exactly.

Stacey Sher (05:37):

I remember everything about that. So, and we also tested Reality Bites there,

Kevin Goetz (05:40):

Ben.

Stacey Sher (05:41):

Yeah. Which I also produced.

Kevin Goetz (05:43):

So, you're amazing. I gotta say, when I went through my notes to prepare for this interview, I could not believe Stacey the commonalities that we shared, the number of movies I had worked on. But just how prolific you are, the fact that you have just exceptional taste.

Stacey Sher (06:02):

Well, thank you.

Kevin Goetz (06:03):

And no, I mean it from the bottom of my heart, you have this insane ability to find great material. How do you do it?

*Stacey Sher (06:14):

I would say that it is the 10,000 hours, but it's a taste thing. I loved movies. It was my dad and my common ground. We really had a slightly tricky relationship. I considered him my father, but he was my stepfather. He and my mom got married when I was six and I was…

Kevin Goetz (06:30):

You called him dad?

Stacey Sher (06:31):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (06:32):

What happened to your birth dad?

Stacey Sher (06:33):

He was just a shitty father. <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (06:35):

So he was alive.

Stacey Sher (06:36):

I mean he was alive. I just didn't see him still alive. No, he just passed away a couple years ago.

Kevin Goetz (06:40):

What was your father who raised his name?

Stacey Sher (06:43):

Sy Sher. And he's in Pulp Fiction.

Kevin Goetz (06:44):

Oh no he's not.

*Stacey Sher (06:46):

Yeah, he was a big movie buff. Quentin loved my dad. Everyone loved my dad. And he is the boxing coach who gives Bruce Willis. He wakes him up from the Gold watch speech and says it's time Butch.

Kevin Goetz (06:59):

My God.

*Stacey Sher (06:59):

Movies was our common ground and he was an incredible movie buff. And loved everything. Showed me everything. I grew up mostly in Fort Lauderdale, Florida and there was a giant storm. 'cause there was always a giant storm, right?

Kevin Goetz (07:13):

You were born in New York City?

Stacey Sher (07:14):

I was. I was born in. But you moved to Florida. Why? We moved a lot. We first moved to Albany, then we moved to Hollywood, Florida. Then we lived in Los Angeles for one magical year. That always made me wanna return here. In sixth grade we moved back to Florida and seventh grade we lived in Hollywood, Florida again, but on the crummy side of the neighborhood. And then.

Kevin Goetz (07:38):

My brother's down in Plantation Lakes.

Stacey Sher (07:40):

Well, so I went to high school in plantation. I skipped eighth grade.

Kevin Goetz (07:43):

That's where my niece goes.

Stacey Sher (07:45):

I went to university school.

Kevin Goetz (07:46):

Wait a minute. So this is crazy. Yeah, again, Jewish geography.

Stacey Sher (07:49):

Exactly. Well he was both in in the garment business. Thank you. The kind of

Kevin Goetz (07:55):

Schmatta business.

Stacey Sher (07:55):

He was in the schmatta business, but also he was, and some of this stuff factored into Outta Sight 'cause Scott Frank also would get some information from him. He was the biggest bookmaker on the East Coast and that's why we moved a lot. And I had this kind of Damon Runyan-esque childhood where he'd say.

Kevin Goetz (08:14):

He's a gambler.

Stacey Sher (08:15):

No, he would say that he was not a gambler because he was a bookie and he invented the half point spread, which changed modern sports betting. And when I was in graduate school at Stark, my parents had moved to California,'cause my dad also always loved it and he was arrested. And so the first three years of my career after I finished grad school was kind of fibbing to Lynda and Debra, 'cause I left a little bit early to go visit him. So I learned how to smuggle in a corn beef sandwich from Nate Nals into prison. <laugh>

Kevin Goetz (08:54):

Where? Which prison?

Stacey Sher (08:55):

First Terminal Island. Which was a tough place to be as you know a 62-year-old man. And then his case was eventually thrown out and reversed and he finished up in the prison camp in Lompoc.

Kevin Goetz (09:07):

How'd you feel about that? It

Stacey Sher (09:08):

It was tough. I mean, I didn't use to talk about it for you. Embarrassing.

*(09:12):

Yeah. I kept it a secret. And there was one day when his first appeal had been thrown out. We were still on the paramount lot. So I guess I was still in my first year and a half of working and Lynda was being particularly tough that day and I just started crying. And of course she like, you know, no crying in baseball, kind of a boss. And I said, look, it's not about work. And I told her, I asked her not to say anything to anyone. I later found out that she had told Debraand Debra was such a class act that she kept it to herself and never told me until he got out of prison. And then I told her, wow.

Kevin Goetz (09:50):

So I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

Stacey Sher (09:52):

Yeah, I mean I'm sorry he had to go through it. 

Kevin Goetz (09:54):

Can I tell you something? I'm so happy you shared that because how could that not inform the stories you tell, the things that you wanna bring to the screen? That has to be a major influence on you?

*Stacey Sher (10:06):

It definitely was. It definitely impacted causes I got involved in. Things I got involved in looking at people through a different lens. And I would say that it also really informed how I never really got too caught up in the Hollywoodness of it because I also went through a situation where people I was very close with and close with our family kind of turned their back on us.

Kevin Goetz (10:32):

Wow.

Stacey Sher (10:32):

And believed things that they read because it's a crazy case and it's for another story.

Kevin Goetz (10:38):

But I kind of tell you something. I hear, a little bird told me that you're gonna be writing a memoir. Listen, you heard it from me as a directive, you have to write this. I wanna read it. I will be the first purchase.

Stacey Sher (10:51):

Well, thank you Kevin. 

Kevin Goetz (10:51):

But you also, you're getting emotional as you talk about it. I can tell. Not crying, but it fills you.

Stacey Sher (10:56):

Yeah. Again, later it became a source for Scott Frank to ask questions about Ripley's commissary account and how you deposited money and how somebody would survive in jail.

Kevin Goetz (11:10):

How did you get Get Shorty made?

Stacey Sher (11:12):

Well Get Shorty was interesting. Get Shorty was first. 

Stacey Sher (11:19):

Yeah. And that was the second. But what happened was obviously Danny DeVito and Barry Sonnenfeld were close. Barry was the cinematographer on Throw Mama from the train and of course went on to become this great filmmaker and one of the funniest human beings and a delight. And he called Danny up and we will get to how much he hates to fly <laugh> Barry Sonnenfeld. And we will talk about the fact that it was actually going to San Jose on the test screening of Get Shorty where he said, I'm only taking solace in the fact that if I die you'll die too. Joe Farrell. And I was there.

Kevin Goetz (11:56):

That was my boss. Yeah. And I brought it up, I think it was on the Basil Iwanyk episode.

Stacey Sher (12:00):

Exactly. And I said that wasn't Basil's movie. I was on that plane. But weirdly Barry had, and I think it's in his fantastic memoir, there was like an emergency landing at one of those test screenings Barry went through. He was beside himself.

Kevin Goetz (12:14):

Must have been beside himself. Yeah.

Stacey Sher (12:15):

So Barry called Danny, he had a flight that was delayed and he bought the book. It was already in paperback. And he said, I read this book, it was great. Read it Danny. I think it could be great for us to do together. And a week later,

Kevin Goetz (12:28):

Was it a popular book or?

Stacey Sher (12:30):

It was, I mean it was an Elmore Leonard novel. So Dutch always had.

Kevin Goetz (12:33):

But was Elmore Leonard Elmore Leonard?

Stacey Sher (12:34):

yes.

Kevin Goetz (12:35):

Do you follow what I mean?

Stacey Sher (12:35):

Elmore Leonard was Elmore Leonard.

Kevin Goetz (12:37):

only, because I think you helped make Elmore Leonard.

Stacey Sher (12:38):

well,

Kevin Goetz (12:39):

Well bigger than he ever was.

Stacey Sher (12:40):

We did because we had the first really successful film adaptation. But there'd been others that hadn't worked. Freaky Deaky had come out 52 pickup. I actually always had a soft spot for.

Kevin Goetz (12:53):

But that's my point.

*Stacey Sher (12:54):

Right. But Get Shorty was the first one that really transcended, but it's not like anybody was dying to make it. So a week later Barry calls Danny and says, did you read the book? And Danny says, I bought it. And Barry said, but did you read it? And he goes, no, Barry, we bought it, we acquired the rights to it. Jersey did. And so we began the process of developing it. We talked to a lot of people, great writers. And I had first asked Scott Frank, who's my oldest friend in the business, I met him the year that I started working for Debra and Lynda. And we've been friends ever since. And we'd never worked together. We were just close friends. But I knew how much he loved Elmore's work 'cause he didn't know him at that point. But Scott Frank was always backed up, three movies, three writing jobs, three everything.

Kevin Goetz (13:40):

Pretty extraordinary.

*Stacey Sher (13:41):

He's the best. And I said, look, I'm coming back to you again. I'm sending you the book 'cause he weirdly hadn't read it. And he'd read every one of Dutch's books, and he was getting on a red-eye flight to New York. I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this accurately 'cause we all turn our stories into better stories in hindsight. And I said, just take the book on the flight. And my phone rang at 630 in the morning when he landed. And I answered the phone and I just heard, fuck you. And it was because he had to do it, and it was gonna blow up his life. He was late turning in the lookout. He was late turning in Men in Black, or no, Barry was late doing Men in Black. And they tried to talk him out of doing Get Shorty before he did Men in Black. And it was one of the three movies that Tristar chose not to make of ours at Jersey. Which really

Kevin Goetz (14:32):

Who was running? Was it Mike there then?

Stacey Sher (14:33):

Yeah. Reality Bites, Get Shorty, and Pulp Fiction are the three movies that they famously passed on. Mike Marcus, who you also had on the pod, was running MGM at the time. And he's the person who picked up Get Shorty and Turnaround.

Kevin Goetz (14:50):

And just wanna say Mike Medavoy, who's also been a guest on the show, said one of his big regrets was passing on Pope Fiction <laugh>.

Stacey Sher (14:59):

He says that now.

Kevin Goetz (15:00):

Yeah.

Stacey Sher (15:00):

But for a long time he said he had no regrets about it, and he had been meeting with congresspeople who were always blaming things on violence.

Kevin Goetz (15:07):

That's right. Well I would have to say you are a visionary. You saw what that movie could be. I would've probably passed on it too if I didn't understand it.

Stacey Sher (15:21):

I don't know if you would've 'cause it was great on the page. But I'll go back. So one of the things that Lynda Obst had me do, there are three things that I really, really have to credit her with. One, when I did coverage, which was short coverage and sometimes I would read, often I would read 30 scripts a weekend 'cause that's how much spec material was out there. Then I would,

Kevin Goetz (15:43):

How do you read 30 scripts a weekend?

Stacey Sher (15:45):

My daughter says the same thing to me, 'cause she's interning for A24 now and she says, I don't believe it. I would just, again, my father was in jail. I was living at home taking care of my mom. So I But there's not enough hours in a day. There are. I would start after work on Friday.

Kevin Goetz (16:00):

Would you stop after a certain number of pages?

*Stacey Sher (16:03):

No. If it was really terrible, I would sometimes read the first 30 in the last 30. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But I had a hard time doing that. And the weird thing is we developed in my first year a script that Darren Starr wrote and it was the middle 30 that made me realize that it could be a movie. But the great thing she would make me do was what's the best version of this movie? And it was a mental test and it was who would direct it? Who could star it? What's it like? What's the genre, what's the shape of it? And that rigor I think has served me to today. That was one thing. In addition to all of the truly horrible scripts I would read, she would give me what she considered the best scripts produced or unproduced so that I could also develop my taste and things that I loved. So I had Lynda, I had Debra who was the, there is no above or below the line we’re one crew moving our our day forward and

Kevin Goetz (16:58):

a galvanizer.

Stacey Sher (16:59):

Yeah. And non-hierarchical and completely involved in every part and there to support the filmmaker. So I had that.

Kevin Goetz (17:08):

That's What made them really good partners probably.

Stacey Sher (17:09):

Right. And she understood every job on the set because she started as a script supervisor on the TV show, TheStreets of San Francisco. Plus Lindsay Doran was a studio executive who we developed with when we were at Paramount.

Kevin Goetz (17:22):

She's so good with story. It's unbelievable.

Stacey Sher (17:24):

I still quote the famous Lindsay Doran that I always remember is there's a fine line between intriguing and confusing the audience.

Kevin Goetz (17:32):

I call them good confusions versus bad confusions.

Stacey Sher (17:34):

Exactly.

Kevin Goetz (17:35):

And good confusions are good. Yeah. I mean they keep you on the edge of your seat.

Stacey Sher (17:38):

That's what she would call intrigue.

Kevin Goetz (17:40):

I love that. I actually like that better. I may change my verbiage.

*Stacey Sher (17:44):

You can credit her. Okay. So the other thing Lynda taught me was I would look at in Variety in the Hollywood Reporter, there used to be these columns that were called Filming in the Future in the US or filming in the Future outside the us. And they were really there for crew members to figure out and for below the line agents to try and get crew on, I would read them and kind of scour If there was really good cast and I had never heard of the writer or the director, I would get the script.

Kevin Goetz (18:16):

I can't even believe how genius that is. Because what you're saying is if it attracted that level of talent, then there's gotta be something there with the creative. That's right. DNA.

Stacey Sher (18:26):

That's right. And so Reservoir Dogs was one of those scripts. who taught you that? Lynda taught me that.

Kevin Goetz (18:31):

I'm sorry. It's genius. Sorry. Keep going.

*Stacey Sher (18:33):

So that's how I first read the script of Reservoir Dogs. And the thing that I'd really learned from that is that the indie film division or the talent agents often see the most gifted new voices because you need the foreign sales component and actors to get it. And Quentin was signed originally by Lee Stallman who's a manager now. Lee was an assistant for Matt Dylan's agent. And he read it first and I believe he then gave it to Mike Simpson and they represented him together. When I read it, I was trying to meet him, I was trying to meet him, I was trying to meet him. He famously has never had a phone besides a landline. And my friend Chris Brancato, who's now a very big show runner and who's from New Jersey and I think is in the Bergen County Hall of Fame, <laugh>, he's the creator of Godfather of Harlem and Narcos and you should have him on sometime, but he's back east.

*(19:33):

But he was an aspiring screenwriter and was a good friend of mine. And Lawrence Bender was his roommate. And we were, this is crazy. At the premiere of Terminator two, I was talking to Callie Khouri and Harvey Keitel. They had just finished shooting Thelma and Louise, it hadn't come out yet. And we were with Chris and a guy starts to walk up and Chris Brancato says to me, and he knew I wanted to meet Quentin, and it had been going on for a month. And again, like the agents couldn't reach him. So they'd say he wasn't available for a meeting 'cause he didn't have a phone. And Chris said, Stacey, I'm about to make your night meet Quentin Tarantino. And so we met, first we brought him in for a meeting to talk about adapting, I think it was a Don Winslow novel. And he said, I am hoping that my movie works out well enough that I don't have to do an adaptation of somebody else's work and I can just write originals. And we began the process of making a blind deal for him to write his second movie before he directed a frame of film of Reservoir Dogs. And I helped him get the music clearance for Stuck in the Middle with You 'cause he had originally been turned down.

Kevin Goetz (20:39):

My God. We're gonna take a break now. When we come back, we're gonna talk to Stacey Sher about so many other movies and where she is and what she's working on today. We'll be back in a moment. If you are curious about how movies actually turn a profit, I've got something for you. My upcoming book How to Score in Hollywood dives into the intersection of creative instinct and audience insight and where the business of film meets the art of storytelling. The book is available for pre-order now on your favorite bookseller platform. I'm also putting together a book launch team and I'd love for you to be a part of it. We're looking for people to help spread the word ahead of our November release and also to leave a short book review after its release. In exchange you'll get early access to the book, exclusive behind the scenes content and more. Sign up to join my launch team or for book updates at KevinGoetz360.com. And as always, thank you for your support. We are back with the visionary Stacey Sher. Stacey, I can't even fathom where to go with this interview because there's so many things to talk about. I do want to ask you how you got into the business specifically. And before I do that, can you tell me three of the movies that most influenced you as a kid that informed you as you entered the film business?

*Stacey Sher (22:11):

Number one and number two, Clockwork Orange and Raging Bull. I always joke that my family was not the family that went to the family film on Friday night. We went to Raging Bull together and Clockwork Orange, I watched on whatever the pre-HBO on the East Coast was. It had a different name in California, but I inappropriately watched Clockwork Orange probably like 10 times.

Kevin Goetz (22:34):

What was it about that that intrigued you so much?

Stacey Sher (22:36):

I was fascinated and became like a huge Kubrick fan to see this exploration of free will versus determinism and taking the most loathsome character in Malcolm McDowell and seeing you root for him to have free will again after it had been taken away from him. And that it was so emotional. I always think it's a movie that goes all the way around. It's so cold it becomes warm.

Kevin Goetz (23:08):

Oh, that's so deep. Did you ever meet Kubrick?

Stacey Sher (23:10):

No, I wish I would've.

Kevin Goetz (23:12):

Oh man. Because that would've been like that intro you had to Quentin <laugh>.

Stacey Sher (23:16):

Yeah. And in fact, when I was helping Quentin get the license for Stuck in the Middle with you, my analogy to this wonderful woman that I became close with during the Fisher King because she was the music publisher for this standard called How About You that Robin Williams sings in the movie a bunch of times. But Terry Gilliam told me it was only gonna be in three times and it ended up probably being in the movie 10 times. So I had to keep going back to the publisher who I was very close with.

Kevin Goetz (23:41):

You had kept additional, uh,

Stacey Sher (23:42):

Additional, you pay more for each usage. Oh, it's called a visual vocal when the character sings along with it. It's either a background vocal when it's playing in the background or a visual vocal if somebody sings along with it and Robin sang I like New York and June, how about you? Many times. Many more times than we originally wrote the license for. So I became quite friendly.

Kevin Goetz (24:04):

How about a Gershwin too?

*Stacey Sher (24:05):

Exactly. How about you? And I became quite friendly with Pat Lucas and EMI publishing where she worked controlled the publishing rights to Stuck in the Middle with You. And Steelers Wheels had originally turned Quentin down And I wrote a letter that Karyn Rachtman, our music supervisor sent, or the music supervisor I worked with that I then introduced to Quentin and Mary Ramos, his current music supervisor trained with Karyn originally. Karyn took this letter that I wrote that said that it was analogous to Kubrick's use of Singing in the Rain in Clockwork Orange. And I said that I felt that this was the birth of a major new cinematic talent and voice and it wouldn't diminish their song to be used in that way.

Kevin Goetz (24:53):

Because your tastes are so eclectic. You've probably had some challenges getting movies made. Give me the one that was the most difficult to get to the screen.

*Stacey Sher (25:06):

I've never really had super easy ones. <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (25:10):

I thought you were gonna say I've never really had that many challenging ones. It's the greatest answer ever that you gave. I never really had super easy ones. Let's face it. Movies are effing hard to get made

*Stacey Sher (25:21):

And because of the kinds of filmmaker films that we loved making at Jersey, the wind was never really at our backs. It was often in our face and we never could really build, I would say. One of the easier ones, Out of Sight was easier than Get Shorty, which took many, many years And we sold the book right away. But we were very, and I think this is interesting in terms of how the business has changed, Jersey Films had a thing called a discretionary fund and it was a development fund to acquire things.

Kevin Goetz (25:57):

Who funded Jersey films?

Stacey Sher (25:58):

In the beginning it was Tristar. We moved to Columbia for the end of it and then we moved to Universal before the company disbanded. And we had a discretionary fund the whole way through. We made our blind deal with Quentin in our discretionary fund. We paid for the life rights and the first and the drafts of Erin Brockovich through the Discretionary Fund. We made a tiny little movie called Camp that we produced with killer films that we,

Kevin Goetz (26:26):

Oh my God, I love that film.

Stacey Sher (26:26):

We paid for the music and the staging through the discretionary fund. We paid for the script of How High through our discretionary fund. We prepped Garden State out of our discretionary fund.

Kevin Goetz (26:39):

It truly was a discretionary fund.

Stacey Sher (26:41):

We paid for the life rights for the World Trade Center Survivors, which was the last movie Debra was credited on when she was still alive. She passed away right when the movie came out.

Kevin Goetz (26:51):

How did you get to Jersey Films?

Stacey Sher (26:53):

Randomly a headhunter who was married to Fred Specktor. Pamela

Kevin Goetz (26:59):

 Robinson, Right?

Stacey Sher (26:59):

That's right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> Fred's ex-wife, fabulous woman, was a headhunter who had been hired by Danny and Michael. Fred put Danny and Michael Shamberg together and I was the first person they hired. Debra and Lyndasplit up. I worked for Lynda for a little while, but I left while Fisher King was in post. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And that was one of my first associate producer credits. And I had been approached by Jane Rosenthal and De Niro, but I didn't wanna move to New York 'cause at that point very much the film business center was Los Angeles. And I had a friend who was dating Warren Beatty and I was so nervous that I was leaving my job and for Lynda to find out that I was having conversations about whether I should move to New York. 

Kevin Goetz (27:43):

Oh, forget it. <laugh>

*Stacey Sher (27:44):

And Warren Beatty asked me a question that changed the way I thought about movies forever. And I was 26 years old. We were in post on the Fisher King and he asked, what kind of movies do you wanna make? And I was so nervous. I was sitting here with Warren Beatty and I said, I wanna make various movies. And he said, do you wanna have various children or marry various men? Because that's the same commitment you need to have to the movies that you make.

Kevin Goetz (28:08):

Wow. What a thing.

Stacey Sher (28:09):

So that changed it for me. And that was pre going to Jersey.

Kevin Goetz (28:14):

And you went to Jersey.

Stacey Sher (28:15):

When Pulp Fiction came out, I became Danny and Michael's partner.

Kevin Goetz (28:18):

And then when did it disband?

Stacey Sher (28:21):

Right around the time we were making Along Came Poly.

Kevin Goetz (28:25):

So it was in business for what, 15 years or something? 12. Ah well where did you go after that?

Stacey Sher (28:30):

Michael and I stayed working together. I had two little kids at that point and we worked together for another 10 years. And then

Kevin Goetz (28:39):

You were work husband and wife?

Stacey Sher (28:40):

<laugh>. Yeah, we worked together for

Kevin Goetz (28:42):

But you do have a husband?

Stacey Sher (28:43):

I do have a husband. Husband who's producer. Yeah. And I heard Basil talking about his bookstore. We have a record store.

Kevin Goetz (28:50):

Where's your record store?

Stacey Sher (28:51):

On Ventura Boulevard next to Art’s Deli.

Kevin Goetz (28:54):

I'll be there at lunch today.

Stacey Sher (28:55):

Well there you go.

Kevin Goetz (28:56):

Not the record store, but I'll be in. I know that record store. It's the best ever.

Stacey Sher (28:59):

It's great. It's great.

Kevin Goetz (29:00):

That's your record store?

Stacey Sher (29:01):

That is my husband's record store.

Kevin Goetz (29:02):

What's his name?

Stacey Sher (29:03):

Kerry Brown.

Kevin Goetz (29:04):

How fantastic.

Stacey Sher (29:05):

And he is fantastic. He presses vinyl and he has a vinyl pressing plant in Miami. And one vinyl press here in LA.

Kevin Goetz (29:13):

I love it. It's so making a comeback.

Stacey Sher (29:14):

And as an engineer, he's a Cinema Audio Society winner for mixing live concert Smashing Pumpkins film.

Kevin Goetz (29:20):

Yeah. Okay. That's a whole other area to go into. Let me stick with getting into the business. You went to a couple of colleges before you kind of got somebody that gave you the advice to move into the movie business or inspired you I should say?

Stacey Sher (29:36):

Well, I'll tell you what happened. I wanted to go into sports broadcasting and I had a summer internship transferred to Maryland. I started college when I was 16. And so my parents made me go to Miami because it was only 20 minutes from our house and they didn't want me to be further away from home, which I thought was insane until I had.

Kevin Goetz (29:53):

It's probably a lot cheaper too.

Stacey Sher (29:54):

No, it's a private school. If I went to Florida it would've been cheaper. But not, not going to Miami. But I then transferred to Maryland 'cause I had a lot of friends there and it was really divine intervention. After I had this internship and realized the world of sports was just way too sexist. I joke that I pivoted to the really inclusive world of film and television. But I had a professor, a film historian, and I was taking an elective in film and his name was Douglas Gomery. He wrote books about sound. He had been at Wisconsin. He said there's a new program, it's only a couple years old at USC and you seem to really love film. And it's called the Peter Stark Motion Picture Producer program. And I didn't even know what a producer was. It was pre-entertainment television.

Kevin Goetz (30:39):

What was your major?

Stacey Sher (30:40):

Radio, TV and film.

Kevin Goetz (30:41):

Got it. Why did he see you as a producer?

Stacey Sher (30:44):

He just said, you really seem to love movies. I think you should apply. Wow. And they only took 25 students. Oh yeah. And they only took four undergrads. So we had a particularly prolific year. The undergrads that went when I went were Liz Glotzer, Neal Moritz and Sharon Morrell, I think had come right from college also. Wow. And Art Murphy changed my life. USC changed my life. I knew no one in the business.

Kevin Goetz (31:11):

I've taught there a few times that program. It's probably my favorite program to have taught at because they're so serious. The students are so serious. It's why I prefer always teaching graduate students.

Stacey Sher (31:25):

It's the legacy of Art Murphy. Art Murphy changed my life.

Kevin Goetz (31:29):

And then you go to Lynda and Debra.

Stacey Sher (31:32):

Yeah. So what happened was I had talked to Art 'cause I had to work and I worked all through college. Instead of changing to do a different internship, I had been working for a music video director named Marty Callner, who was a great guy. And I talked art into letting me stay there. And I worked on all of these early Twisted Sister videos. So my big claim to fame at that point was that I found Niedermeyer from Animal House and talked him into Flying People's Express Airlines to be in that Twisted Sister. We’re Not Gonna Take It video. 

Kevin Goetz (32:05):

Oh. For those people who don't know, People's Express was an airline that they actually had the credit card cart going down like where they bring you drinks and you paid. I always joke that if you didn't pay they toss you out.

*Stacey Sher (32:17):

Out the window. It made Southwest look like you were flying Delta one <laugh>. Anyway, that's all we could afford on the video. But through that experience, I met a young aspiring screenwriter. And I think one of the significant things that I always tell students, or younger people when I'm talking about the business is it's not about networking up. It's getting to know your peers. David Simkins was a below the line budget executive at a place called New World, which was acclaimed for making schlocky films like Angel, you know, Hollywood Honor Student by day, Hollywood Hooker by Night, or Children of the Corn. Their classiest movie was a movie I actually love called Girls Just Wanna Have Fun with Sarah Jessica Parker. And weirdly, they also owned Marvel at the time. But David was an aspiring writer. He had a script that he wanted to get to Twisted Sister.

(33:15):

And that's how we were first introduced by a different intern. And we became friends and he had this idea that he pitched me, which he called After Hours, the Martin Scorsese movie for kids. And that became Adventures in Babysitting. I was working for Debra and Lynda on a trial basis. I had met them through an executive. My second year of grad school I worked for Gary Hendler, who was the head of Tristar. And it was another great formative experience because he resigned while I was the second assistant. And I kind of watched the impact of what it is from the seat of power to see somebody's phone sheet go from 2000 calls a day to two calls a day.

Kevin Goetz (33:56):

Oh my Lord.

Stacey Sher (33:57):

And I really learned while I was still in school about situational power and that you're only as strong as your relationships and how you treat people. His strongest relationship was with Mike Ovitz. And so he had given all of his clients as a lawyer to Mike Ovitz in the founding of CAA. And that was Sidney Pollock who…

Kevin Goetz (34:17):

Was there payback time now?

Stacey Sher (34:19):

I think he was a producer afterwards and I think people always took good care of him. And I think he thought about whether or not he really wanted to work, 'cause I think he retired a very wealthy man. The thing I remember is the one client he kept as a lawyer was Ella Fitzgerald.

Kevin Goetz (34:36):

Oh my lord.

Stacey Sher (34:36):

'cause she was older. And so every once in a while I would get to talk to her on the phone. And both my parents were huge jazz fans and big band fans.

Kevin Goetz (34:43):

So now I can say Jessica and Sy.

Stacey Sher (34:44):

Yes, Jessie and Sy were big, big band fans. So that was great when Ella called once in a while.

Kevin Goetz (34:50):

What are three movies that you can name right off the cuff that you've made that hold a particular place in your heart? I didn't say favorites 'cause No,

Stacey Sher (34:59):

No Warren, there are no,

Kevin Goetz (35:01):

As Warren taught you,

Stacey Sher (35:02):

There are no favorites.

Kevin Goetz (35:03):

You're not, you have no favorite Child. Child.

Stacey Sher (35:05):

No. No favorite child. Um, and I mean

Kevin Goetz (35:10):

This is a personal question then.

*Stacey Sher (35:11):

Pulp is obviously very special.

Kevin Goetz (35:13):

Yeah.

Stacey Sher (35:14):

Out of Sight is very special. Reality Bites is very special. It's hard to narrow it down to three. Man on the Moon, the Jim Carrey, Andy Kaufman movie..

Kevin Goetz (35:25):

Oh that was incredible. I did that. 

Stacey Sher (35:27):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (35:27):

I worked on that with you.

Stacey Sher (35:27):

Yeah. Yeah. Where we learned that people didn't like Andy. Whether he was alive or had was not.

Kevin Goetz (35:33):

Hundred percent it was DNA.

Stacey Sher (35:35):

Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (35:35):

And what are you gonna do not be authentic, I mean you have to, you know.

Stacey Sher (35:38):

Yeah. That was quite an experience because Jim never broke character the whole time. He was either Andy or or Tony. Oh, that must've been a joy. It was amazing actually.

Kevin Goetz (35:48):

Really?

Stacey Sher (35:48):

It was magical and it's really special to me 'cause I met my husband during that film.

Kevin Goetz (35:52):

I love that. Let me ask you a little speed round here. I'm gonna mention a name to you and just sort of gimme a first impression. I don't want you to think too much about it. You just sort of said Jim Carrey was magical. Okay. Stephen Soderbergh.

*Stacey Sher (36:08):

The best on the planet. Love him. He's as kind as he is smart and talented. He has a saying which is repeat business and treat people well. And his joke was that when we made Erin Brockovich, he was breaking what he called the Jersey Jinx, 'cause we had made a lot of first films with people. So we made the second film, which was Erin with him. And then of course we made Contagion together as well.

Kevin Goetz (36:31):

I was gonna ask you my next name. Erin Brockovich.

Stacey Sher (36:34):

She's an extraordinary person who I'm still in touch with to this day.

Kevin Goetz (36:38):

My friend Randy is friends with her and speaks so highly

Stacey Sher (36:42):

Of her. She's the greatest.

Kevin Goetz (36:43):

As a human.

Stacey Sher (36:44):

She's the greatest.

Kevin Goetz (36:44):

Julia Roberts.

Stacey Sher (36:46):

She's America's sweetheart.

Kevin Goetz (36:48):

George Clooney.

Stacey Sher (36:49):

Fabulous.

Kevin Goetz (36:51):

What makes him fabulous?

Stacey Sher (36:53):

Making Out of Sight was one of the great joys. Now it was also different because it was before I had kids. And your feelings are split. once you have kids and once the business changed to become like this incentive based business where you went places to shoot things instead of shooting in LA, a part of you is really torn apart if you have a family.

Kevin Goetz (37:14):

Betty Davis said you couldn't do them both.

Stacey Sher (37:16):

I mean,

Kevin Goetz (37:16):

Or Katherine Hepburn, I think, or whoever. But many of them. Is that a true statement?

Stacey Sher (37:21):

Look, it's why I took the Activision job for three years, 'cause it was the age of my kids.

Kevin Goetz (37:26):

2015 I think or something.

Stacey Sher (37:28):

2016. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (37:29):

Yeah.

Stacey Sher (37:29):

And right after Hateful Eight and the first season of Into the Badlands, and I'd just been on the road.

Kevin Goetz (37:36):

I cannot be on the road. I've gotta be with my kids.

Stacey Sher (37:39):

Yeah. I mean, during Hateful Eight, I left the morning after my son's bar mitzvah to go back to Telluride. You know, that's tough.

Kevin Goetz (37:47):

Oh man,

Stacey Sher (37:47):

That's tough. And shooting in Telluride is a place you can't fly home for the weekend. You know, in Django I'd, I'd leave on a Friday night and be back on set by Monday morning. You can do that and never be away for more than two weeks and see them.

Kevin Goetz (38:02):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Right. And they're not sending the private jet

Stacey Sher (38:05):

No <laugh>. No, definitely not.

Kevin Goetz (38:06):

Not on the budgets that you have to.

*Stacey Sher (38:08):

No, definitely not. You know, even on Django, which was a large budget, I always felt like we were making the biggest low budget movie. But Out of Sight was really fun. George was really fun. George's practical jokes were really fun. Steven once got back at George. I remember while we were making that movie, he was named The Sexiest Man Alive. And Steven had covers of the People Magazine made for the whole crew. And when George showed up, the entire crew was wearing his Sexiest Man Alive cover. So it was a lot of fun.

Kevin Goetz (38:42):

Colleen Hoover,

Stacey Sher (38:44):

She's a hoot.

Kevin Goetz (38:46):

Really.

Stacey Sher (38:46):

I mean, she's delightful. We,

Kevin Goetz (38:49):

I got to meet her on uh, it Ends With Us.

Stacey Sher (38:51):

Exactly. She's so smart. She really understands her audience. She's obviously a great storyteller. And Michael Showalter, Colleen, her partner, Lauren Levine. Jordana, I

Kevin Goetz (39:01):

Was gonna wait, but let's just talk about it now. Verity.

Stacey Sher (39:04):

It's been a blast.

Kevin Goetz (39:05):

Verity is your next movie, I think, right?

Stacey Sher (39:07):

It is. It is.

Kevin Goetz (39:09):

Can you just tell us a quickie about it?

Stacey Sher (39:10):

It's an erotic thriller from the Mind of Colleen Hoover that stars Anne Hathaway and Dakota Johnson and Josh Hartnett, directed by Michael Showalter.

Kevin Goetz (39:19):

I don't wanna inflate his head too much, but I am such a fan of his.

Stacey Sher (39:23):

Me Too.

Kevin Goetz (39:24):

And he's a problem solver. Working with him on the screenings that I've worked on. He's been very complimentary of the contributions that I've made. But he listens to the audience.

Stacey Sher (39:36):

Look, he comes from comedy. And when you come from comedy, the audience either laughs or they don't laugh. A joke kills or it doesn't kill. Ben Stiller, same thing. Loved working with him.

Kevin Goetz (39:47):

He's extraordinary. His instincts are second to none.

Stacey Sher (39:51):

Reality Bites was his directorial debut. Did you work on Reality Bites?

Kevin Goetz (39:55):

I did not.

Stacey Sher (39:56):

It was NRG.

Kevin Goetz (39:58):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. It was the company I used to work at. NRG.

Stacey Sher (40:00):

Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (40:01):

But Ben, I've worked on nearly every movie he's ever done since then. We have become friendly just through the business and the success he's had with Severance. Oh my God, I'm so happy for him.

Stacey Sher (40:12):

And well deserved. It doesn't surprise me at all. When we made Reality Bites, which was his directorial debut, his directing career got sidelined by him becoming a giant movie star. But I always saw him as a filmmaker.

Kevin Goetz (40:26):

He's one of the people that's embracive of the screening process. Why do you think that is?

Stacey Sher (40:30):

Again, I think people that come from comedy wanna hear the audience's feedback.

Kevin Goetz (40:35):

Excellent theory. I wanna ask you about screening experiences that you've had. You've had some wild ones. Gimme a couple examples of things that were, I mean, I know that you did Django Unchained, I believe it had been shot already. It was locked.

Stacey Sher (40:50):

We were locked. We had marketing screenings because the studio was very worried about who this film would appeal to. Would it be,

Kevin Goetz (40:58):

Let's say the elephant in the room, African American and black audiences were gonna think compared to everyone else?

*Stacey Sher (41:03):

Yes. So I'll tell you a funny story. The movie was very controversial in black Hollywood, and I think that was really hard for Reggie Hudlin, who I produced the movie with, because he really always understood this was a superhero story. It was a fairytale about rescuing a princess and a superhero story about literally and metaphorically blowing up the institution of slavery and looking at some very tough stuff in a way that made it possible for people to, to have a reckoning about America's racist past. So we have these screenings. One is, and you'll remember, they're all in New York. One is 50% white, 50% African American. Then there's an all white screening and an all African American screening. The movie played identical.

Kevin Goetz (41:57):

Listeners. When that happens, you know, you have something so special. It was similar to Get Out by the way. I just want to say the tactic that we used to uncover the marketing materials in that movie, were just recruiting a black audience to see if there were cultural cues that really spoke to that audience versus say, a white audience. And were they different? And in fact, they were from a marketing standpoint, and both sort of met together, though.

Stacey Sher (42:24):

They weren't on Django though. And what I will say is then Harvey was nervous that we wouldn't play in the South and that white people were gonna hate the movie. So in the middle of sending somebody down, we were going to screen in Athens, Georgia.

Kevin Goetz (42:40):

Right. I didn't do this movie.

Stacey Sher (42:41):

So this was NRG.

Kevin Goetz (42:43):

Mm-hmm

Stacey Sher (42:44):

<affirmative>. And you weren't there at the time. In the middle of the person being on the way with the print to Athens, Georgia, Harvey decided that that was too much of a college town and it wouldn't be the right sample. And literally, I feel like somewhere in rural Arkansas or Mississippi, it was like, for all intents of purposes, a klan town and the movie still tested the same and tested as high.

Kevin Goetz (43:10):

That's a great story. It was such a good movie.

Stacey Sher (43:13):

Yeah. I'm really proud of it.

Kevin Goetz (43:15):

Thank you for those stories. Couple of other names I just wanted to run by you. John Travolta.

Stacey Sher (43:20):

A gentleman, a sweetheart, and really generous with himself and with everyone that works with him.

Kevin Goetz (43:28):

Hillary Swank.

*Stacey Sher (43:29):

A fighter, fought to get Freedom Writers made. Love her. partnered with us the day after she won her second Oscar. And that's how we got that movie financed.

Kevin Goetz (43:38):

Like the day after.

Stacey Sher (43:39):

Yeah. Said, I'm gonna use the cachet I have now to help us get this movie made. And with my dear, dear friendRichard LaGravenese.

Kevin Goetz (43:45):

Like was literally the day after.

Stacey Sher (43:46):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (43:48):

That's beautiful. So she wins the Oscar the day after. She says, I just got this attention. I want to use my new

Stacey Sher (43:55):

Power for good.

Kevin Goetz (43:56):

To get Freedom Writers to the screen.

Stacey Sher (43:59):

Yep.

Kevin Goetz (43:59):

And it got there.

Stacey Sher (44:00):

And Richard LaGravenese is one of the greatest writers I've ever had the pleasure of working with.

Kevin Goetz (44:04):

I just had the good fortune to work with him recently. What a terrific guy.

Stacey Sher (44:07):

He's the best

Kevin Goetz (44:08):

He, he's the best. He was nervous about the process and once he understood what we were doing, I think he really embraced it in a beautiful way. So I completely agree with that. Who do you wanna work with that you haven't worked with?

Stacey Sher (44:22):

Well, I'm very excited because I've been developing something with Cameron Crowe, who is one of one of my favorite people.

Kevin Goetz (44:29):

You know what? He calls me?

Stacey Sher (44:30):

What?

Kevin Goetz (44:31):

Coltrane <laugh> in my book. And he says, the way you work a focus group is like.

Stacey Sher (44:37):

It’s true.

Kevin Goetz (44:38):

Oh, well that's very sweet. But wasn't fishing.

Stacey Sher (44:42):

There's nothing, there's nothing like watching you when we've said to you, Kevin, this is something we're curious about. Can you find out this? And the way you guide people and the humor that you use, there's a period of time where the focus group is really helpful. And then the power of personality of one member of the group. You know, it's almost like

Kevin Goetz (45:01):

This could take over.

Stacey Sher (45:02):

Yeah. It's like the Stanford Prison experiment and you navigate it in the most adept and hilarious way. You know, it'll be like, Johnny, we've heard enough from you already. Okay. Your other friends wanna get a word in edgewise here. And it's so great.

Kevin Goetz (45:15):

I hopefully not insulting them, but to challenge them.

Stacey Sher (45:17):

No, but in it's charming and adorable way.

Kevin Goetz (45:19):

Oh, thank you, Stacey. Well, Stacey Sher, what can I say? Except it's been a joy working with you over these years. You have given us our listeners, this industry and the world, some great, great entertainment. And you've made us laugh. You've made us cry, you've made us smile, and you've made a difference. And I thank you so much.

Stacey Sher (45:42):

Thank you.

Kevin Goetz (45:45):

To our listeners, I hope you enjoyed our interview today. I encourage you to keep your eyes out for Stacey's upcoming films, including Verity this year. For more filmmaking and audience testing stories, I invite you to check out my book, Audienceology at Amazon or through my website at KevinGoetz360.com. You can also follow me on my social media. Next time on Don't Kill the Messenger, I'll welcome Mark and Troy Paul, co-founders of SGG Media, an award-winning social media marketing agency, known for its unique partnerships with top studios and large-scale influencer activations. Until then, I'm Kevin Goetz, and to you, our listeners, I appreciate you being part of the movie-making process. Your opinions matter.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Stacey Sher
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)