Episode 13: Dan Maloney, Director, Louisville Zoo

An innovative leader with a passion for conservation and animal wellness, Louisville Zoo director Dan Maloney believes that strong and effective leadership encourages inclusiveness and increased engagement among internal teams and the community. By pushing the envelope of what accredited zoos can accomplish and driving his teams toward strategic thinking, he’s become widely respected and influential. In this episode of Luminate: Navigating the Unknown Through Creative Leadership with Sarah Hempstead, Maloney discusses his approaches, what he’s learned, and how collectively, it’s created dynamic experiences.  

Transcript

Sarah Hempstead: Hello, and thank you for tuning in to Illuminate Navigating the Unknown through Creative Leadership. I'm Sarah Hempstead, AIA LEED AP principal in charge CEO, and chairman of the Board of Schmidt Associates. As the fifth director of the Louisville Zoo in its 54 year history, Dan Maloney was named one of 20 people to know in Louisville's Kentucky's nonprofit community in 2022 by Louisville Business First, a specialist in animal conservation and wellness who believes in pushing the envelope of what accredited zoos and aquariums can do for local communities with a Bachelor of Science in biology from Kutztown University.

Sarah Hempstead: Dan got his start at the Bronx Zoo and led an effort that took care of animals impacted by Hurricane Katrina and the New Orleans Audubon Zoo. Dan also spent time as a curator for the Wildlife Conservation Society and served as the general Manager of Life Sciences for the Melbourne Australia Zoo before relocating back to the United States to work at the Jacksonville Zoo and Gardens as a deputy.

Sarah Hempstead: He relocated to Louisville to assume the director job in 2021, where he oversees the work of 120 full-time staff, 10 part-timers, and a hundred seasonal workers, as well as untold numbers of animals. Under Dan's leadership, the zoo has seen annual increases in funding and attendance in baby animal births and the development of new events, and a renewed focus on inclusiveness, safety, and engagement for zoo guests.

Sarah Hempstead: In his latest leadership in Endeavor, the zoo will be unveiling Kentucky Trails in 2024. This $30 million interactive exhibit will feature Native Kentucky Wildlife, an off-road vehicular tour, a paddle boat ride, wildlife theater, new restaurants and event venues on 20 acres. Of undeveloped land adjacent to Snow, leopard Pass and Glacier Run.

Sarah Hempstead: And here to talk with me today about his leadership journey. And the Louisville Zoo is Director Dan Maloney. Dan, welcome to the show. Hey, 

Dan Maloney: welcome. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. 

Sarah Hempstead: So with a, uh, with a resume like that, it's hard to know even where to jump in and start. So I'm gonna go all the way back, uh, to the very beginning.

Sarah Hempstead: What got you interested, uh, young Dan in Animals in the first place? 

Dan Maloney: Sure. The, I always say if you are. A curious person and, uh, you wanna be humbled on a daily basis, then wildlife's a perfect place to, uh, put your energy because, uh, what we don't know about animals far outweighs what we actually know. So I've been interested in animals since I was a toddler, and I've been very fortunate to make my passion my profession.

Sarah Hempstead: So as young, Dan, would you bring home frogs and snakes and found kittens and the, the whole, uh, the whole gamut. 

Dan Maloney: I, uh, have. I've been blessed with, uh, very tolerant and, uh, and very, um, permissive parents when it comes to these things. Uh, my dad passed away at a really early age, but he, while he was an FBI agent, special agent for the bureau, he, uh, he was really interested in, in, uh.

Dan Maloney: Wildlife, but I think he was also a really curious person. My mom, uh, was great. She's never squeamish about any, any of those creatures. And yes, people would bring things that were injured and, you know, I'd find all kinds of animals and stuff, uh, and keep, uh, keep 'em for a while and then release 'em and yeah, it's been a great journey.

Sarah Hempstead: So who encouraged you to take that, that passion and that excitement and go to college to start making it a career? 

Dan Maloney: Well, yeah, when I went to college at that time, because after you read my whole down my cv, there you go, man. That guy's really old. Uh, so, uh, so there was a lot of concentration in, uh, the cellular, uh, arena and molecular biology, but I was much more interested in the organism.

Dan Maloney: So I would take courses that were aligned with my interest. That interest was already there. College was just an opportunity for me to, um, learn more and, and. Get my certification, so to speak. But I went, uh, started at the Bronx Zoo, but not as a animal person. I started as a tour tram driver at the Bronx Zoo 'cause that's the best I could get.

Sarah Hempstead: So, so do you still remember your Bronx Zoo Tram script? 

Dan Maloney: Yeah, I actually got in a little bit of, uh, hot water with the guy that was our, our supervisor, because I, I would point. Other creatures. 'cause there was an area where you'd see muskrats and you'd see blackground, night herons and things. And, and so he actually rode with me and said, you know, you really shouldn't deviate from the script.

Dan Maloney: I said, well, those creatures are right here. And so he, uh, he started, but he was great. His name was Barry and I think he's passed away at this point. And, and he was instrumental. I kept on trying to, um, and to find my way into the animal ranks. Uh, but the way I became a tram gyre in the first place is I, I had, um.

Dan Maloney: Uh, you know, this, I'm gonna make it as concise as possible, but I had a, an avenue to the then, uh, cur, he's passed away as well. John Baylor was the, uh, curator of reptiles and amphibians at the Bronx Zoo. And, uh, I was able to just keep writing 'em. And when we finally, he finally invited me and he said, you know, I didn't really invite you here because you're, you know, you, because of your knowledge or anything else.

Dan Maloney: You just, just bothered me so much that I figured I had to talk to you. So, uh, so I was very, um, I was very, um. Uh, determined. And I always tell people when I'm speaking to students these days, I, I'll say to them, you know, there's a fine line between being persistent and being obnoxious, and I know that because I've crossed that line many times.

Sarah Hempstead: That's right. That's the only way to find the line is to cross it a few times, I guess. 

Dan Maloney: So, yeah. I'll take your word on that one. 

Sarah Hempstead: So, uh, so is that persistence part of what brings you to the Louisville Zoo? 

Dan Maloney: I've been interested in the zoo for a long time. The previous director, John Waza, and I've known each other for many years and I know his.

Dan Maloney: Predecessor Dr. Bill Foster as well. So, uh, both of these guys though, are just like way too healthy and, and fit. I thought one of them would just like get sick or something and just as, but they just hang, been hanging in there. So John and I would check in over the years and I, because it's a small community, we all know an awful lot about each other, and I'd heard rumors that he might be thinking of retiring.

Dan Maloney: And so when we were at a conference in New Orleans of all places in 2019, just prior to the. Pandemic. I said, you know, I hope you stay in the zoo and aquarium world forever 'cause we need you. But in the event that you really are thinking about departing, uh, I'd love to be, you know, I'd love to be a candidate to be your successor.

Sarah Hempstead: So you put your, you put yourself forward, you built your network and advocated for what you wanted. Yeah. I 

Dan Maloney: had visited the zoo back in the late nineties. Uh, came here to check out a draft named Murphy. Still the coolest draft I've ever encountered. And he was getting a little older. He'd been born here.

Dan Maloney: He was challenging his dad at the time, and Louisville was looking for a new home. For him, and we did bring him to New Orleans. What made him so cool is that he was an animal that had been supplementally reared, and meaning that his mom wasn't producing enough milk. And so the keepers would feed him with a big bottle just to give him additional nutrition.

Dan Maloney: And consequently, he was very comfortable with giraffes and people, which is not typically the combination that you would get. And so, uh, Steve Taylor, who's our. One of our two assistant directors, Steve was my guide back in the nineties, and Islands had just opened and it was the first of its kind. It was revolutionary and I just thought the community was great.

Dan Maloney: I thought the zoo was. Punch in above its weight. And that's what we've always done. And, uh, I said, well, any, any place that could have the determination and find the way to build something as remarkable as islands, you know, the first multi-species rotational, uh, habitat at any zoo anywhere. Uh, I said, well, you know, I'm really gonna, I'm gonna keep my eye on this place.

Dan Maloney: And so that's how it all kind of started. So since the late nineties, I've been paying attention to Louisville. 

Sarah Hempstead: So, uh, that, that's really interesting to me. The Louisville Zoo is relatively young in the world of zoos, right? Less 50 years old, give or take, and has really gone boldly, uh, with some experimental work.

Sarah Hempstead: I, I love this. It's one of the reasons that that brought you there. How do you think about continuing that? That pioneering spirit. As the organization gets older and older, I think that's maybe harder to maintain 

Dan Maloney: it. It could be. But you know what a great challenge and when we, in Jacksonville Zoo Gardens, uh, we did something called Land of the Tiger and Louisville's Islands was a inspiration as well as the oline at the Smithsonian National Zoo.

Dan Maloney: Giving the animals a lot more choice, a lot more liberty, a lot more variety in what they're doing. And so. We were doing something different there, building the first purposely designed trail system for big cats. Other places had retrofitted things, but we were doing something very different. And boy, there was a lot of opposition.

Dan Maloney: There was opposition from, uh, from some board members and opposition from, from, uh, potential, uh, from the development department. 'cause they weren't sure they could raise the money for it. And, and the staff, it, it was really interesting. But I think Steve Taylor would tell you, and I certainly learned it as well.

Dan Maloney: The first one through the wall is always the bloodiest. That's the way it works. And so if you are really determined to do something, and the director at Jacksonville brought me into his office at one point and said, uh, just the two of us, he said he is. Is this gonna work? And I said, you know, it's gonna work.

Dan Maloney: Absolutely. And I believe didn't know if it's gonna work or not, but it worked for, it worked great. So I think that's the, you know, that's the challenge that we rise to, but it that, that's the fun part of what we do. That's right. Right. And that's why, uh, having Schmidt being part of this. This journey is gonna make it great for Kentucky Trails.

Sarah Hempstead: Well, so talk a little bit about some of the, uh, transformational work in Kentucky trails. What's, what's gonna happen there that's really hasn't been done before? 

Dan Maloney: Well, certainly not at our zoo. Let's put it that way. It's gonna be a much more naturalistic area. Uh, we're doing our best to preserve as much of that undeveloped area at the zoo within that 20 acres and.

Dan Maloney: It's an opportunity to showcase animals that maybe sometimes people take for granted. 'cause I've certainly seen this living and working in Australia. I was, I was excited every day, even if I was seeing animals that were fairly common. You know, the big gray headed fruit bats in Australia, when they decide to start moving in the at dusk, they look like the flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz.

Dan Maloney: These are one of the largest fruit bat species anywhere. And just seeing them. At night or at dusk, you know, as they're starting to go. It was always thrilling to me. The Australians, on the other hand, in Melbourne, they um. They often have gardens and fruit trees and things, and these animals would come in and raid them along with the brushtail possums and the cockatoos and the, you know, these animals are considered pests.

Dan Maloney: I think we do the same thing here in the states. We often take our own wildlife for granted. Every animal is interesting and every species has a story, but it's up to us to showcase that and to highlight those things because it's universal in terms of how fascinating animals are. We wanna be able to have beavers be able to build a dam and design the habitat in a way that will allow for that back behavior because they want to do things.

Dan Maloney: They're an industrious species. Uh, someone had asked me, well, well, why do they build those dams? Why would they do that? I said, it's like, it's a remarkable adaptation. They, they, they build a dam, they create a pond, they build their lodge in there, in the middle of this pond. With an underwater entrance, it's a great way to protect themselves.

Dan Maloney: They're able to winter because they've, they can go in the lauder that they've, they've stored all these branches and sapling cuttings and things in the dam and. No animal in their right mind is going to swim underwater into a dark beaver lodge with the second or third largest rodent in the world and decide to take them on.

Dan Maloney: They're, they're perfectly safe. And so, uh. Even otters, you know, as bold as they are, aren't gonna do that. So I think the, this is the kind of thing that gets, it gets me excited about animals my whole life. 

Sarah Hempstead: They're kind of the architects of the animal world. 

Dan Maloney: They are, they are, they are the schmitz of the, of the animal world.

Sarah Hempstead: I appreciate that almost 

Dan Maloney: al almost as dynamic and, and and exciting as, uh, as you and your colleagues. Oh, that's 

Sarah Hempstead: very sweet. Um, so part of noticing the things that are around us and gaining an appreciation leads. Directly, I think, to conservation, uh, which is something you've spent your career working on.

Sarah Hempstead: What, what are, how can zoos build a public that has an interest, an active interest in engagement in conservation? Talk. Talk to me about a little bit about that. 

Dan Maloney: Yeah. I think the unique opportunity with, with focusing on regional wildlife is that. We can give people suggestions and opportunities to support and be involved to take action, you know, beyond just contributing to our conservation fund.

Dan Maloney: So anybody who ever visits the zoo, 25 cents of their paid admission and a dollar of every membership, and then the opportunity to round up their purchases at point of sale, all that goes to our conservation fund. We now want to dedicate at least 25% of that money to regional conservation. Therefore, that's why we picked up the phone and called the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources, and one call led to the next, led to the next.

Dan Maloney: And so we're doing some exciting things right now. You know, we've sponsored the purchase of the components and installation of two modus towers, M-O-T-U-S. This is technology that came out of Canada and it's wildlife tracking mechanisms and equipment. And the first one went is first one went up in land.

Dan Maloney: That's managed by EKU. And then the next one will be out by land between the lakes, managed by Murray State and overseen by, uh, state fish and wildlife. And then also hell benders the big rare salamanders. We're working with a cooperative of, uh, consortium members, uh, include three accredited zoos in in Indiana, Indiana, DNR.

Dan Maloney: Uh, Purdue, university of Kentucky, and then Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources. And then also the, the whole pollinator program. We've folded in our program with the state's program and all these things have the opportunity for people to be involved, planting, pollinator, uh, plants, uh, doing their best to try to, um.

Dan Maloney: Keep, keep their pesticides and herbicides to a minimum. Uh, try not to pour things down into sewers and contaminate rivers and such, and all these things are great opportunities for us to, to help save the wildlife, uh, in our region. That's awesome. 

Sarah Hempstead: Um, I wanna pivot just a little bit to crisis management and leadership skills required there because you have a very, very unique set of stakeholders that need to be fed and cared for no matter what is happening.

Sarah Hempstead: So if, if it's okay, can you take us back to Katrina and what you learned in crisis management there? I don't think many people were probably thinking about, about the zoo animals. 

Dan Maloney: Yeah, if you start seeing my eye twitching, you know, it's just a lot of, a lot of post-traumatic stress. Uh. It wasn't the first time that we hunkered down at the Audubon Zoo in New Orleans, and, uh, because most hurricanes are near misses, but Katrina was a lot bigger.

Dan Maloney: And so the night before we got hit. Uh, I was looking at the weather report and I had the training to disconnect our servers and move 'em to the reptile and amphibian building at the Audubon Zoo that was designed in the late eighties to be a more hurricane resistant building. So it was always gonna be our headquarters and, and reptile houses are buildings within buildings, but every year we would increase the.

Dan Maloney: Equipment and supplies that we have, and we, we would have a preseason meeting. That was because we always knew that police and fire and rescue and all those agencies were gonna be too busy in a major crisis with human needs. My wife, who did remarkable work and, and was the CEO of the Louisiana SBCA before, during, and after Katrina.

Dan Maloney: Uh, they lost their area. They had moved all their animals two days before the storm to Houston because their reciprocal, uh, reciprocal arrangements, and again, not the first time they had evacuated. Just the first time we got got hit hard, Mississippi got actually hit harder than we did. They, the storm did steer slightly to the east and put New Orleans on the favorable side.

Dan Maloney: So we thought we dodged another bullet, even though there was a lot of damage and things. What we never, uh, anticipated was, at least I didn't, I never thought the police would be there to help. But I never thought they'd be adversarial. That never crossed my mind or anyone else's. So they came in the second day and took, uh, 600 gallons of, of gasoline from us and also, uh, our zoo shuttle that we never got back from them.

Dan Maloney: We found it, uh, somebody found it three months later under, uh, in bad condition, as you can imagine, under one of the overpasses of I 10, I was in charge of the team that stayed behind and we, we tried to keep his. All a group of people as possible 'cause you wanna expose the least number of folk to, uh, to that kind of danger.

Dan Maloney: We were, we were really well prepared because we knew we had to be. And I'm proud of all that we accomplished. The upside of those police officers who took our fuel is that I was able to get the lieutenant's phone number and we had flip phones at the time. It was 2005. So I was able to call upon him and, and his help at, at other times, my wife cut deals with the National Guard to come in after them, 'cause people didn't wanna leave their pets.

Dan Maloney: And that worked. It changed everything in the way that, that, uh, crisis management works with, uh, with people and their pets. So yeah, there's a million stories. They're much better over adult beverages. But the, uh, but you know, there's, it was a, it was a time that, you know, everybody had to rise to the occasion, but I.

Dan Maloney: I will let you know that that one guy did have, um, a Blackberry, I think, which was, you know, the best you could have had at the time. And I remember somewhere in that first week, 'cause we were on our own and the National Guard weren't there yet and we started doing armed patrols at night. Uh, 'cause there were three of us who were on the lethal shooting team, you know, in case you could did animal couldn't be contained or restrained.

Dan Maloney: Uh, that. By any other means if they escaped or something. So he was, um, he was melting down a little bit and he, he was getting reports about other problems within the city and people, you know, people breaking into things and looting and stuff. And he said, where's the National Guard? Where's the government?

Dan Maloney: What's going on? You know? And I said to him, it was late. And I said, you know. I, I don't know any of those answers. I just know that our mission is the clearest it's ever been, which is these animals need us to have more than ever and it's, you gotta get some sleep, you gotta clear your head and you gotta put that away.

Dan Maloney: And that's when we decided, I, I, we had to do arm patrols. So yeah, it was quite a, quite a journey and an eventful thing. But I shared everything we learned just like Zoo Miami had done. After Andrew, uh, I spoke any place anybody wanted me to speak, any kind of, um. Any kind of conferences on, on, uh, on disasters and things, just so what we experience might help somebody else.

Sarah Hempstead: What's the biggest thing you learned that really all, all zoos should, should really think about? 

Dan Maloney: I think you can't control the weather, obviously. You can't influence the direction of a. Of a storm. The only thing you can control is your training and preparation. That's the only thing you have. So you, you, you need to focus on what you, what you can control, and then really, uh, plan well and, and work that plan, but also be.

Dan Maloney: Be agile because at one point, and I'll just share one more story 'cause everything's counted down. When I talk about day three or four, it's always after the storm. It was like day eight or nine when the, uh. National Guard showed up and they lived on our grounds, like our parking lot area and our overflow not really there to help us.

Dan Maloney: They were there because we were some of the last dry accessible, large amounts of, of land on the East Bank. And so I can't thank them enough though 'cause they were awesome. They, they were looking for things to do and we put 'em to work and it was great and they were just tremendous. And then we could kind of relax and do, we have to do, but, but somewhere like day three or four.

Dan Maloney: The Audubon Zoo is part of the Audubon Nature Institute that runs the zoo, the aquarium, the Survival Center, Audubon Park, the golf course. And we had just built a clubhouse, new clubhouse, not, uh, not, uh, you know, it was, it was a fairly recent, uh, uh, renovation. And so, uh. Somewhere around day three or four, someone sees these big guys on golf carts trying to play golf out there.

Dan Maloney: And we're like, what the, so I grabbed one of our staff members, one of the security people, and I told everybody, do not come out here. I, I don't know what's going on, but I'm gonna go find out. We go across the street, magazine street and we see these fire. Trucks from Chicago and New York, and I made a calculation.

Dan Maloney: I'm from New Jersey, started at the Bronx Zoo and I made this calculation in my head. We go in, these guys had, you know, had, had entered, broke into the clubhouse. They, they put all this furniture out on the, uh, back porch and relaxing out there. And, um, so I came in and I just started. Kind of yelled at 'em using vulgarities and such and said, who the plank could let you in here?

Dan Maloney: And they're yelling back at me, 'cause they're New Yorkers, the Chicago guys, I don't even know if they knew what was going on. They're all way, way too nice. And uh, and they came up to me and I said, you know what? I started at the Bronx Zoo and I know what you. Planers are, are, are all about. And then everything changed.

Dan Maloney: They said the Bronx, I'm from the Castle Hill Station. I'm from the Tremont Station and they're all around me at that point. And somebody came up to me and his, his, uh, this was, he introduced himself in only the way a New Yorker could. He said he, it was Captain Mike McPartland, not McPartland McLin. And he called me Danny right away, which, which is a New York thing.

Dan Maloney: And he said. Danny will be very respectful. And I said, and I called him Mike. I said, Mike, you gotta be, I said, these guys are huge. I said, we wanna be good hosts, you know, just two to a card out there. I said, nobody goes into the pro shop. And I said, if you need food or anything else, you know, let us know.

Dan Maloney: And he said, that's great, appreciate it. And I said, now I need something from you. And he. Yeah, you name it. And I said, I need 1500 gallons of fuel, of diesel fuel. Within three days, our animals will start to die. 'cause our generators would start to, you know, the life support for certain areas would start to, um, break down.

Dan Maloney: And he said, you got it? And I said, you can get me 1500 gallons of diesel within three days. He goes, absolutely. And I said. Mike, can I, can I ask you where you're gonna get that? Because I learned really quickly that you may not see these people again. That you, if you can find out what their source is, you might be able to capitalize on that later on.

Dan Maloney: And he said, uh, Betty, you don't, and I thought maybe he siphon it from the Chicago trucks. You know, I don't know. And so to his, I said, fair enough to his word. Uh, three days later, uh, uh, tanker shows up, uh, one of the army tankers and, uh, the. Driver was Sergeant Pyle, which I thought was really ironic. And I've got, I had my digital camera on my belt the whole time.

Dan Maloney: So I have photos of all these things that I use it for my presentation and, uh. You know, those guys were, those guys were great. And, 

Sarah Hempstead: and the animals, uh, survived. And there you go. You made a new friend. 

Dan Maloney: Uh, they got, they got pulled out and deployed somewhere else, like, you know, within the week. But you, you, you just had to be, you had to be able to adapt quickly.

Sarah Hempstead: So when you came to Louisville Zoo, we were still in the middle of COVID, how could you use the lessons you learned at the, in that crisis to apply to this kind of crisis? 

Dan Maloney: Yeah, I think the difference between COVID is that everybody was experiencing it, so it wasn't a particularly unique situation, whereas in, uh, in, you know, with New Orleans, we were a functioning zoo with, in a, in a city that had completely broken down.

Dan Maloney: So it was a little different. Mm-hmm. And in fairness, Metro Louisville government had worked out there. They, they were really cautious on these things. I, I was working in Florida where, you know. I don't even know if COVID was really even acknowledged at that. We were, we were open, you know, I'd be talking, I'd be on on conference calls and Zoom calls and things with colleagues from around the country and some in Canada.

Dan Maloney: The, the people in the Toronto Zoo, oh man, Canada was super cautious. So the Toronto Zoo's, 800 acres, it's all outside, like of all the places that could have, you know, reopened without any problem. And they were just under some very, uh, strict, uh, restrictions where we opened, I think May 9th reopened at the, uh, at the.

Dan Maloney: Sue and Jacksonville, Florida, and when I came here, we were reopen, but people were still wearing masks out. You know, staff had to wear masks outside and things, and we were able to change that through Metro Louisville. We didn't do it. I mean, we be, we, we functioned in accordance with what the regs were.

Dan Maloney: Sure. But I think, um, I think it was, it was one of those things. People not getting vaccinated. Some of, there were some people that still weren't vaccinated, and I always thought that that was, that was a tough one. So that was, I struggled with that because mm-hmm. W we assigned all these weird supernatural abilities to this virus.

Dan Maloney: We didn't fully understand why some people were more vulnerable than others, but it behaved like every other virus. You know, when people said it could go 37, you know, you could, you could, your sneeze could go 37 feet. Well, I can throw a football 50 yards if I've got a hurricane level wind at my back, I, but, you know, most of 'em are gonna drop at about 30 yards.

Dan Maloney: So, uh. So I think we, we tended to start, start assigning all these incredible abilities to this virus that didn't. It, it didn't make any sense. And that was always something I struggled with. 

Sarah Hempstead: So talk about you have 200 people, give or take at the zoo about three. If 

Dan Maloney: you count the, if you count the people who are our concessionaires, that we have 325 or so.

Dan Maloney: Yeah. 

Sarah Hempstead: Right. So they're looking, looking to you for, uh, leadership setting culture. How do, how do you think about that? How do you think about the culture of the zoo and what you can do to, uh, help influence it? 

Dan Maloney: While it may not be apparent. In our conversation now, I, I get credited with being a good listener and I think people want, you know, they wanna feel like they're being listened to.

Dan Maloney: And a good pal of mine at the Indianapolis Zoo had, had, uh, had let me know, you know, in his training and let me know about, uh. He asks people at the end of your conversations, he'll, he'll say, do you feel like you've been listened to? And I, I've, I've absconded with that, uh, with that phrase. I think also I'm good at remembering people's names and I, and if I don't remember, I'll just ask him again.

Dan Maloney: Uh, I think that's important. Mm-hmm. Uh, because people, you know, there's. Th probably nothing more personal to 'em than their name. So, you know, to be acknowledged on that level and, and also just communicating better. Uh, and that's always every place I've worked, that's always the case. Anybody I've, I've worked, it's always the major complaint, which is, you know, we don't feel it now.

Dan Maloney: Keeping in mind communication when someone complains about. The lack of communication, it typically means they're not being communicated too well. It's not like they feel like it's a two way equation, but that's what, that's what it takes. That's what happens when you're at the center of the target. You know, you're, I'm at the, I don't think of myself as at a ladder or a pyramid.

Dan Maloney: I'm, I'm in the bullseye, so everything's kind of coming that way. That's what I took on. I, I wouldn't have applied here if I didn't want to take that on. And I think it's important to remember that everybody's playing a, a part and it, it, it radiates out from, uh, from the director's office. Hmm. Sounds like servant leadership.

Dan Maloney: Somebody described it that way, but I think, I always tell people if, if you, if you wanna get promoted because you think you're gonna have an opportunity to, to, um. Direct people and order 'em to do stuff. I said, but you shouldn't do that. 'cause it, it means you're gonna be, you're gonna be serving rather than being served.

Dan Maloney: It's just the way it, it's just the way it works. Absolutely. If you're gonna succeed, I guess, I mean, I, I hope we're gonna do really well, but you know, again, Louisville Zoo is in a good spot. I mean, you know, two good, capable directors. Prior to me, so I, I feel very blessed and they're both still willing to help.

Dan Maloney: They're both around. One's in Lexington, the other one's two miles from the zoo, and then they're willing to help me and they're always available if I need. Some advice 

Sarah Hempstead: that, that's generous and, and so helpful to have somebody who's been in the same hole before. Right? Yeah. They, they might know the way out.

Dan Maloney: Absolutely. Sometimes it's just the opportunity to, but I've, I call John, I don't bother him, and he, and he, he's very, you know, he's got, he's one of the nicest guys in our community and so he doesn't, he's, uh, he's very cautious about whether, you know, he wants to give me my space. But we were, when our, he overlapped with me the first week, we decided he would stay and he would overlap.

Dan Maloney: And, uh, at the end of the week, uh, we, we had the option to extend and he said, oh, you got this. I think he, before I could answer, he jumped in his car and he was, he was gone and his wife went to Colorado to, uh, to spend some time with their daughter. And, uh, but John's always available if I need him. 

Sarah Hempstead: So, uh, one of the things I've found interviewing leaders is they're really good at taking care of their teams and they're maybe not so good at taking care of themselves.

Sarah Hempstead: Do you, do you have a favorite tip or trick to make sure that you're in a good place? 

Dan Maloney: Well, Sam, yo and I need to have our appointments again. That's my, my favorite Peloton instructor. I've been really bad at not, uh, not being on there. I think that's, that helps a lot. Um, and I, you know, I, this. I've made, as I said, my passion, my profession, and I've also, you know, I've got a great.

Dan Maloney: A partner, my wife Laura, is, is remarkable. And I met, she and I met working at the Philadelphia Zoo together. So I, you know, I, I have met the love of my life and got a chance to marry her. I mean, that's, you know, I, I, I don't have anything to complain about. I, I love being at the zoo and I love being there every day.

Dan Maloney: And I get a lot of energy from interacting with other people. So anytime I'm feeling little stressed, I just go out and I, I go out on the grounds and I love to talk to people who are, you know, who come and I always ask 'em where. You know, where are you visiting from? Most are local, but a lot of times there are people, especially during spring break time, coming from all over the place.

Dan Maloney: And so it's a chance to, to talk to them a little bit. And, and I did that when I was in Australia. You know, those days when you're like, uh, this is a lot of nonsense going on because anytime you get more than three people in a room, there's, there's, you know, there's just the politics of, of, of interactions.

Dan Maloney: So. I would go and I would, uh, visit the platypus and the, because they were, you know, they, San Diego Zoo has spent a lot of money now over a lot of years, and they platypus have finally come back to North America after, I dunno, 70 years of an absence or something, and. So seeing a live platypus, it was, it, it was a dream come true.

Dan Maloney: And, uh, so I go and, and I tell you this, this is exactly what the, they call the platypus habitat at the Melbourne Zoo. It's called the platypus is the name of the, it is the name of it. It's on the building for God's sakes. And so, uh, so that was always, you know, always a place I could go and visit and just watch 'em sometime and talk to the people who were watching 'em and.

Dan Maloney: You know, those are the kind of things that are fun. I, I go, I work at a zoo for God's sakes. You know, 

Sarah Hempstead: so, so you, you, you get to have a little bit of fun most days. Yeah. You 

Dan Maloney: know, uh, the former police, uh, chief Erica Shields, uh, we got to know her pretty well, and, and she came up to you as a mayor's meeting and I guess she had come to the zoo with family members and she just wanted to say hi and welcome me to Louisville and said, you know, she said, I never.

Dan Maloney: Appreciated what your job is and, and how complex. And seven days a week. And she said, you know, there's a lot to take care of. And, and I'm, I'm looking at her, I'm nodding. I said, we live in candy land compared to you. I don't even know what it takes. I said, I can't. I imagine my worst day is still better than your best day.

Dan Maloney: I mean, it's so, I appreciated the compliments, but you know, I don't, I don't. Lose perspective here. What we're doing is, is, is fun and positive and affirming, you know, most of the time. 

Sarah Hempstead: So I think, I think I heard you say, uh, leadership is about listening well, marrying well and doing something that you love.

Dan Maloney: Yeah. Yeah. I think it, it's, I, and I was fortunate. I know my mother was kind of concerned that, you know, I was spending probably more money on fuel. Uh, I think my car was an eight cylinder car at the time, getting in from Jersey to the, to the Bronx every day than I was probably making as a tour tram driver.

Dan Maloney: However, she. She gave me the space and the, and the support as well as my three siblings. I'm the oldest and, uh, I started, I would, as we fueled up our tour trims every morning, there was the glass encased, uh, billboard that had the, had the job openings on there. So I got my. My application and first, and I would go up to personnel.

Dan Maloney: It wasn't even it, it wasn't even, it was so long ago. They even call it human resources. And uh, I would be checking in to see, you know, where, where I stood and when's the next opportunity. And I even went and found out where the Curator Mammals assistant ate lunch out on hundred 83rd Street. So now I'm stalking people.

Dan Maloney: Fortunately I had my. Uniform on. And I finally just, because just jumped out in front of her and her friend, I said, you know, I introduced myself and kind of stumbled and said, I, I'd just like to get an interview. So I finally did, and, and, uh, Jim Darty was the curator of mammals at the time. He was very in intimidating, we didn't call him.

Dan Maloney: I, I'm friends with Jim now. He's, uh, he'll turn. 83 Is this, is this the fifth today? He turns 83 today. And, uh, happy birthday Jim. And so he, uh, I just talked to him not too long ago and I've always, so he, the first question he asked me in his office was like a curator's office, all these books. And he pointed to a stack of two inches of paper on his desk and he said, I get this many resumes a week.

Dan Maloney: Why should I hire you? Which, that's not a bad question, but I'm from New Jersey and there's. Even to this day, a part of me that wants to be a wise guy, so I said, uh, I said, I appreciate that Mr. Dardi, but if those people wanted this job as badly as I do, why aren't they driving a tour tra Now that's a wise.

Dan Maloney: Ass answer, but bless Jim. He, he gave me my shot. So, you know, I always have, uh, called him at my various milestone anniversaries or new jobs that I have, so I keep in touch with him. 

Sarah Hempstead: That's a, that's a great story. Alright, two final questions. One that I ask everybody and one just for you. Do you have a book that's special to you that you'd recommend, uh, people pick up and read sometime this summer?

Dan Maloney: Uh, you know, I'm about to utter a phrase that sounds more pretentious than it is meant to be. The things I read the most, I have a, I have a subscription to The Economist, which sounds remarkably pretentious, but it's such a great, it's such a great magazine 'cause it gives you a global perspective. Mm-hmm.

Dan Maloney: But I'm also now rereading some of the Dune books. 'cause I, the, the movie's coming, I can't believe I gotta wait till November 3rd for this next one to come out. It's making me insane. But those books, because of, uh, when I was in school, in college, those books were some of the new ones. They hadn't all been written yet.

Dan Maloney: Like there was only, I think three of the books. So Frank Herbert. And so we would wait like a new album was coming out. Like, when's the next one coming out? And this, the movie, the first one was a, this next one looks awesome. So yeah, if you have, if you don't know Dune, you need to pick up the book and read it.

Dan Maloney: So, 

Sarah Hempstead: all right. Final, final question. In Australia, you'd go visit the platypus as your, like go-to. Wow. This is amazing. What do you go to in Louisville? 

Dan Maloney: Oh, uh, that's right. Well, you know, we, we have, uh, our. I still think Islands is an awesome place, and while the, we would probably build those exhibits larger now, in these days, it, it's still, it still holds up and it's still great for people to, to be able to know what we're actually doing there.

Dan Maloney: I don't think we tell the story well, we certainly don't tell it in Jacksonville at Land of the Tiger, and we probably need to let people know more of why it's. Why this is a significant place. But yeah, I still go there and, and look at those creatures and think about it, and I just toured the back area.

Dan Maloney: I hadn't even been in the back areas because I'm very respectful. I mean, I can go and do anything I want at the zoo. But just 'cause you can, doesn't mean you should. So Steve Taylor and I were in the back areas of, of islands for the first time since I've been here, and that was 25 years ago when I first toured with Steve.

Dan Maloney: And I said, you know what, Steve, I'm saying right now every 25 years, you and I need to come and tour this facility together. So, so yeah, there's endless fun there. But the, the guests themselves are always fun to. Even if I just walk, you know, 10 yards outside of my office, 

Sarah Hempstead: the guests are some of your favorite, uh, wildlife.

Sarah Hempstead: Absolutely love that. I love that. Um, thank you so much for being my guest today. It's been totally enjoyable. I'm sure our listeners have learned a ton. We're gonna invite them all to come to the zoo. 

Dan Maloney: Yeah. Wild lights is still going on. And, uh, and yeah, I, I think zoos are great for any ages and I really wanna see everyone come out and enjoy what we have to offer.

Sarah Hempstead: And if anyone listening wants to learn more about the Louisville Zoo and how you can be a part of something wildly exciting, visit louisville zoo.org or just stop by between 10 and five daily to explore. And on behalf of all of us at Schmidt Associates, thanks for listening. And don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

Sarah Hempstead: And follow us on Facebook, Instagram. And LinkedIn at Schmidt Associates