Advocating For Art: A Leadership Conversation with Julie Goodman, President and CEO of the Indy Arts Council

How does the central Indiana arts community navigate and survive during challenging times?  Learn how as Julie Goodman, the tenacious and inspiring President and CEO of the Indianapolis Arts Council explains. Follow along as she underlines why the arts are vital to mental well-being and how they can fortify communal bonds. But the power of art extends beyond inspiration.  Hear Julie share about a transformative project from her time at the Cincinnati Opera and the impact it has had on her years later. 

Julie's love of the arts and her outstanding leadership are not just sources of inspiration; they are a glimpse into the profound impacts that art can have on the health of communities. So come along on this enlightening journey, and be sure to subscribe for more engaging discussions.

Chapters

• 0:06 Creative Leadership in the Arts Industry
• 14:19 Building Partnerships and Transforming the Arts
• 27:27 Journey of Leadership and Work-Life Balance
• 32:40 Finding Inspiration in Art and Work
• 38:09 Art's Impact on Health and Well-Being

Transcript

Sarah: [00:00:00] Welcome to Illuminate, navigating the unknown through creative leadership. I'm Sarah Hempstead, a leader in creative problem solving and principal in charge at Schmidt Associates. Today, I'm talking with Indianapolis Arts Council President and CEO, Julie Goodman. As the head of Central Indiana's leading arts advocacy agency, whose mission is to nurture a culture where artists and arts organizations thrive, and ensure that a full creative life for all is possible.

Sarah: For Indianapolis residents, Julie is responsible for the implementation of the Arts Council's strategic plan, organizational administration, and programming priorities, including grants and fellowships, services and supports for artists and arts organizations, the city's public art program, the Indianapolis Arts Garden.

Sarah: Gallery 924, the Indy Arts Guide, and Any Given Child in partnership with Indianapolis Public Schools. She also leads [00:01:00] stakeholder engagement, advocacy, and resource development required to advance the Arts Council's mission. In this episode, we'll dive into Julie's creative leadership journey, her significant contributions to Central Indiana's arts community, and what's coming up next.

Sarah: Thanks for joining us today. 

Julie: Thank you. 

Sarah: So, that's a great resume. It's exhausting. I'm exhausted just reading through it all. But let's start, let's start back at the very beginning. Little Julie. Was Little Julie interested in, in doing art and being an artist? 

Julie: Yes. From my very earliest memories I, at our family gatherings, I remember going to visit my grandparents in Evansville and after we'd have dinner, we would go into the living room and this sounds so cheesy, but it's what we did.

Julie: We'd go into the living room and my grandmother would play piano and my grand, my granddad would sing. And like, we just had these like music moments as a family and I. I have such fond memories of that. My mom was a musician. [00:02:00] My dad was a musician and they insisted in my mom specifically insisted that I take piano lessons.

Julie: So from as probably four, five years old, I was taking piano lessons and. That it was a struggle sometimes like she would literally like set the timer and take my my hands and put them on the piano, but then you know, it finally becomes fun and So that just it informed everything so I went from that to being I did All the arts education things you could possibly do.

Julie: So choir, orchestra, marching band. And then I was in theater and show choir and all of that. So it definitely has been a part of my life as long as I can remember. So you can sing. I can sing. I can still sort of play piano, but that's a use it or lose it situation. I'm very sad that I haven't kept up with that more.

Julie: But yeah, it's just[00:03:00] it's, it's been a beautiful part of my life. 

Sarah: So as you moved into young adulthood, as you were picking your career, picking your college, how did that love manifest itself? 

Julie: Sure. So I thought I would be. Music teacher. Like I had such amazing experiences. I had incredible teachers and coaches and and I, and I, and my parents are both teachers.

Julie: So I went into music education. I ended up at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, and I was in music education, and I was a double major in voice and piano. I ended up having an English professor. Music That really inspired me and opened my eyes to journalism. And then I had another professor who opened my eyes to this world of communications.

Julie: It kind of came through some friends. I had a, I had a girlfriend who asked me, Have you ever heard of public relations? And I'm like, [00:04:00] what in the world is that? Like, I have no idea what you're talking about. And but I was curious. And so I went to, there's a student society on campus and I went and I learned more and I ended up getting to know the faculty advisor who became a professor who became an incredible mentor to me.

Julie: And I ended up changing my major to communications marketing journalism, and I kept music as a minor. So I, it was a very unexpected change, but I think. Looking back now, it all kind of makes sense. 

Sarah: So, so professor kind of turned your mind on to something you didn't even know about. And then you went out into the world to do.

Sarah: This mysterious PR that we've heard so much about. 

Julie: Yeah, I mean, it started with internships, right? So she connected me to internships. The first one was a summer in London with Miami's kind of student ad [00:05:00] agency. And then I spent a summer in New York working for Burson Marsteller, big national firm and understanding what that looks like.

Julie: And I thought for sure I would end up in New York or Chicago. But because of theater, I ended up in Cincinnati. So I was... I was graduating, I was senior, I was doing some shows and my friends and a, and a professor that I'd worked with, well, he was a director of, of a community theater there in Oxford.

Julie: Talked me into staying to do their summer show and intern for him for his PR agency in Cincinnati. And so I said yes, cause I wanted to extend that experience as long as possible and ended up really. being totally charmed by Cincinnati and the cultural community there and loved the people I met in the PR community.

Julie: And that set forth my entire career. 

Sarah: I love that you had mentors who were not only comfortable with bridging between different professions and different loves. [00:06:00] It sounds like they were totally supportive of it. 

Julie: Oh my gosh. Yes. And somehow I've just been so fortunate to have mentors that excelled in our, our, the professional world we were in, in public relations and strategic communications, but a number of them also had a love of the arts.

Julie: Mm-hmm. , like one, one of my Most influential mentors during the first decade of my career, I worked for a PR agency called Dan Pinger Public Relations. And it's kind of like a Borshoff here. In fact, they were a sister agency to Borshoff here in Indy. And The, the gentleman that I worked with so much, his name is Rick Pender, he's still in Cincinnati, also wrote, he was the arts and entertainment editor for the local it's called City Beat at the time.

Julie: So there was just always these layers. And my work in that first 10 years really centered around downtown development. So that's, that's the time [00:07:00] when Cincinnati was going Building their vision 2020 plan. This was the early 90s and we were sending caravans of people over to Indy to learn how to, how it, how it should be done, right?

Julie: So, and I was doing all, and so Indy's my hometown, so I was really proud of that, you know, that Indy is this benchmark and, and kind of we're learning from Indy's experience. And I was doing the, all the community engagement work and the PR and media relations work around that. So it, it blended. This, you know, civic engagement and economic development and downtown revitalization, but also appreciating the role of arts and culture and creatives in that work.

Julie: So I think it, it. I was just so lucky to have that experience so early in my career. 

Sarah: So as a very young person experiencing new to, new to her career, new to her community, what'd you learn about being the newbie and what it meant to [00:08:00] be welcomed or not as you get connected to a community? 

Julie: Oh my gosh. I think just, you know, Indianapolis has this and it's definitely been my experience coming back to Indianapolis, but it's, it was true in Cincinnati.

Julie: Also, just the generosity and warmth and kindness of people and access, like just the ability. To be in rooms with senior leaders in city government and in business and to have a voice at, at the table in, in those, in those situations was, you know, in equal parts, terrifying and and completely empowering, you know and, and to do it in the safety of having leaders agency organization, leaders and mentors who totally had my back.

Julie: Like, and it wasn't it wasn't always great. Like [00:09:00] that was a great situation. I had some clients that were really tough, right. And, and some clunkers too, and, and and to be supported in navigating that as well was just, it was, it was like a. It was like a second family. I mean, it felt that safe and that supportive, which makes it possible to step outside of your comfort zone to try new things, to you know, to take on new challenges, to put like, all of those things that I would probably been hesitant to do mm-hmm.

Julie: but because of the the conditions mm-hmm. , I was, I was able to, to have these incredible opportunities. 

Sarah: So one of those opportunities eventually was to come back and lead the Arts Council. What were the deciding factors there? 

Julie: So, this is a, it was funny how I got to the Arts Council, and it all goes back.

Julie: [00:10:00] Every, every job, every step in my career, It all goes back to those first 10 years and my experience in that agency environment and the relationships that I made, the people that I met, the experiences that I had every single one. So I I was working for a small nonprofit in Cincinnati called Artworks.

Julie: They we did all of the public art in Cincinnati as a youth employment program. And I was It was a great fit for me at that point in my life, in my career. I was loving that work and I had an opportunity through a friend who was a former client from that first 10 years to talk to Strata Education Network about an opportunity that I thought.

Julie: was in based in Cincinnati. So I come over to Indy and I meet with the CEO and I think I'm talking to him about an opportunity with an affiliate they had in Cincinnati. And in the course of that conversation, he's like actually we'd like to talk with you [00:11:00] about. this opportunity with our national organization, but it needs to be based here.

Julie: And we know you're from here and we know your sister's here. Like they had it all, all their research. Yeah. And I was like, Oh my gosh. So, but you know, we had, my son was going into his sophomore year of high school and we have a lot, we have family here, but we had a lot of family in Cincinnati. So it was a big decision, but everyone in our family got a vote and my son got two votes and.

Julie: We decided to make the move, so I'm working away at Strata and having a great experience and I got a call from one of my best friends, who was also a former colleague from that agency phase, who's now working at the Cleveland Art Museum, and she said, Have you seen this posting for the president and CEO of Arts Council of Indianapolis.

Julie: I'm like, no, I'm, I'm busy. Like I'm, I'm not looking for a job. Like I'm, what are you talking about? And she said, it has your name written all over it. You have to talk to them. [00:12:00] And I said, I don't know. I've been at Strata for two years. So it felt like. Soon, you know, and but I thought about it and I kept thinking about it and I, and it was literally like about three weeks from that conversation and she said, well, I'm, I'm sending him your stuff.

Julie: So she knew the recruiters. So, so three weeks go by and I finally thought, you know, I'm thinking about this enough. I should reach out. And at that time the recruiters reached out. You know, so here I am. It's almost been five years. I can't believe it 

Sarah: It seems like throughout your career One of the they're the real keys to your success have been relationships keeping really keeping old relationships keeping in touch building a strong network What what have you learned 

Sarah: about that over the years?

Julie: I

Julie: mean, I don't know any other way, you know I guess I've just I've been so fortunate to work with such fabulous people and And it has, in [00:13:00] almost every environment I've been in, crossed that work and friend line. And so, I, I, I can't imagine my life without these people that I have collected along this, now 30 years, which is crazy to say.

Julie: But we've gone through all of these phases of life together, you know? And so, I'm just extremely grateful for that, and, and then I think you apply it, right? You, it's not just about looking backwards, it's about looking forward. So I think about coming to Indianapolis and kind of rediscovering my hometown as an adult at this point in my life and my career and all of these, and there are certainly people that I grew up with that are still here.

Julie: But there's also been like this ocean of new people, new relationships, new experiences. And [00:14:00] so it's really helped make what could have been a kind of tricky transition for our family feel. Very natural. And we are, we've decided we're just maintaining. We have dual citizenship with Indianapolis and Cincinnati.

Sarah: Oh, one of the things I, I. admire about you is your ability to build partnerships with a really broad group of stakeholders from the artists themselves to the purchasers and consumers of art to politicians and funders. It seems like those skills in building a web and network of colleagues are absolutely applicable to building partnerships that you need for the council to be successful.

Julie: Yeah, I guess that's fortunate. Right? Yeah, I mean, that's what I love. Like, that's the best work to Have a shared [00:15:00] vision to find those common goals and, and then be able to bring people together and bring their unique perspective, their unique strengths, their resources to bear. Right. It's, it's just, it's such a privilege to be in this work at this time and, and in Indianapolis.

Julie: It's a great time to be in Indianapolis and be be engaged in our creative community. So what's 

Sarah: a project that you. have been working on that is a great illustration of that. Groups coming together to make something important for our time and place. 

Julie: I mean, the, the, the super current project is our, is our strategic plan.

Julie: So thank you for being on our board and for leading our grants committee. And you'll be an important voice in that process, but it has been a minute since the arts council did a strategic plan. I think the last time. [00:16:00] Was in maybe 17 and 18 was pre pandemic for sure. And then we were set to do a new strategic plan in 2020.

Julie: So that got postponed and then it got postponed again. And because 21 was no different. And frankly for us, 22 is no different. So we are, we are finally. Doing a strategic plan, which feels like exactly the right time to be but, but what's what I'm excited about is that we have an opportunity. We're going to go really broad and really deep.

Julie: So we're doing extensive community engagement, extensive stakeholder engagement. And really being able to, to listen and learn and kind of co create this plan with artists and arts organizations and our civic partners and audience members is kind of a dream come true. So that's, that's what I'm, [00:17:00] we're working on right now.

Julie: And what I'm most excited about over the course of my time at the arts council, I mean, it, it has to be the work we did during the pandemic. That was a. Life changing career changing. You know, just incredible opportunity to witness a community coming together to really appreciate and value and express care for the artists and and cultural organizations in our city.

Julie: And I'll just forever be grateful for that experience. 

Sarah: Can you for people who weren't there. Maybe paying attention to what happened in, in the arts world. Can you just briefly sum up what was happening to our arts institutions and how people came around them with love to make sure that they're still here today?

Julie: Sure. Yeah. So, you know, like all of us, we got, we sort of, sort of heard [00:18:00] the, the rumblings and then it became more evident and, and about I think it was a Thursday or Friday. And then the shutdown happened, right? And we were all in, I think, a little shock, like, you know, what this collective experience that we all had, but we also immediately realized that that meant we, the hundred organizations that we engage with are closed.

Julie: And that also means that thousands of artists. That are employed by those organizations and also work as independent artists and gig workers, right. Are outta work. And so we quickly, this is where I think the, the background in research and, and thank, thank God I had some basis in crisis communications.

Julie: Right. I, that's for that communication journey. I mean, it did, it really, it really [00:19:00] like being able to stay calm and, and. focused in that moment. And we quickly within 48 hours did a survey and we surveyed our arts leaders and we surveyed artists. And we understood that within that first 48 hours, what that impact looked like, it was like 30, 000 closures and cancellations, event cancellations, gig cancellations, it was 30, 000.

Julie: And so we started to put economic impact against that through that survey and then we did obviously follow up and deeper assessments. But within that first week, so between the Thursday or Friday of the shutdown and the Thursday of that first week, we had Commitments of 500, 000 of relief funding. So we had convened the arts funders, the philanthropy [00:20:00] community had come forward and we had a base of 500, 000 to immediately start with relief grants for artists and that, and then there was another round and then there was another round and then Lily endowment came 10 million grant for restart and resilience fund, which was transformational support for organizations to be able to reopen, safely reopen, and also to safely welcome audiences and, and patrons back.

Julie: So, and it really was, it was just this loop of convene, assess. Act, iterate, and rinse and repeat, like we just, we, we literally did that for three years. Because it was the immediate, you know, the relief phase. And then there was a recovery and reopening phase that really [00:21:00] lasted two years. And I think just now, in this, in this fall season, the 23 24 season, we're really starting to see Consistency in the momentum of people coming back.

Julie: It's been incredible the entire time to see the community support. But in those early, early phases, we, we, we came up with a hashtag. It was indie keeps creating, which was just the truth. Like that's what we saw. We, we simply were. We're giving voice and helping to support a platform for what we saw happening in the community, which was artists finding alternative ways to connect, to help inspire the community, to provide hope, to keep us entertained, and organizations were doing the exact same thing.

Julie: And so it was just such a, such a privilege to be. to be [00:22:00] in that position to give the community who wanted ways to help to be able to channel that to support our, our creative community. 

Sarah: Thank you for going into that story. I think what the council did was amazing. But, and I think that, The community coming out to show that we that we knew it that we know that the arts are important to our mental well being.

Sarah: It was just transformational for the community as a whole and our relationship to the arts. I think another sector where transformational change is happening within the organization of the Arts Council, but also in the city is doubling down on diversity, equity, inclusion and the arts in the arts community.

Sarah: And I know we're going to read. address this and double down on it in the strategic plan. But could you share just a little bit about what that has meant for the council? 

Julie: Oh my gosh, sure. So, well, you've been a part of the board and part of the board the board made a commitment [00:23:00] and adopted an equity statement in 2015, 2016 and made some important changes.

Julie: To our, our grant program to be more equitable, to make sure that we are providing access to the public funds that we're entrusted to administer for the city to small organizations, to our cultural entrepreneurs. While also continuing to support our anchor institutions, because they're all important to the ecosystem.

Julie: We also adopted equity policies around just looking at all of our investments. So it's not just the grants program, but it's every fellowship. And we, we applied this during the pandemic to our pandemic relief, right? So making sure that the investments that we are able to make into, into arts and culture.

Julie: Reflects and are representative of our community. So that has looked like a goal on every program that we have of investing in artists of color at 50 [00:24:00] percent or more. And so we track and report against that. And we have, we have been consistently meeting or exceeding that goal. It applies to our board diversity, which is, I think, 52 percent people of color on our board and our staff.

Julie: But I think, so, so I think in terms of making sure that we understand representation and we're intentional and accountable and modeling that for our sector and we're doing lots of training and engagement with the sector on all of this as well. I think the evolution of that is really understanding and moving from the diversity and inclusion work to deeper understanding of representation and belonging.

Julie: And I think that's the territory that we are going to explore deeply in our planning process. So, and I think as a [00:25:00] field, as everybody that's working in DEIA space, it's a natural and important. an essential kind of progression to just keep going deeper and deeper into that work. And that part of the work is harder.

Julie: In a lot of ways, it's, it's messy, right? It's just, it's, but it's also where the real, the real transformation, the real systemic change happens. And so for us. We are, we're big supporters of the Racial Equity Institute, the work that NCICF has been supporting that training, and they use a framework called Groundwater.

Julie: And so as the Arts Council, so it's kind of like the, the fish and the lake and the groundwater is kind of like the, the framework, and as the Arts Council. And given the space that we occupy in our role in the ecosystem, we're [00:26:00] really challenging ourselves to make sure that we're looking at how are we affecting change at that lake and groundwater level, because it's super easy to stay.

Julie: In the tactics to stay in the projects to stay in that because and that's and there's there's funding tied to that. There's so it's challenging right to there's just a lot of tension in that in our work today, but also just that's that's I think where we're heading and that's our focus and our commitment in our planning process.

Sarah: So as you look at your style as a leader, five years ago, he came five years ago, just in time for the pandemic. Yep. That's excellent. One year in. One year in. That's just long enough. You've had, you've had some major growth opportunities and honing your leadership skills in the last five years.

Sarah: What have you learned? What skills do you rely on to be a good leader? 

Julie: Oh my gosh. I think [00:27:00] being humble, realizing like, Oh my gosh, there's like, it's a, it's a never ending learning journey. Right? Like you never, it's you, you get some things right in a day and you get a lot of things wrong in a day and you just try to give yourself A moment to reflect on that and learn from that and grace and you try to do better the next day.

Julie: Like, honestly, that's, that's been the journey for me. And I've had amazing leaders in my career. We've talked about some of them. And so I really try. And the reason I wanted. To, to try this role. This is, was really an experiment for me. Cause I didn't, I, I've always been a number two and I'm a really good number two.

Julie: But being in a CEO position in, in that, in that seat. Was really a challenge to myself [00:28:00] and an opportunity to be able to bring forward the aspects of some of these leaders that I've had the privilege of working with and applying those experiences. And really, it's at a very, at a very staff centric level of creating conditions for people to be able to realize their potential.

Julie: So, what does it look like for me to be able to bring forward, you know, the, the quilt of all of those individuals that I've had the privilege of working with and I'm, and in my own way, in my own voice, in my own style, apply that and, and, and see what happens. So, and sometimes that's been really good and sometimes.

Julie: It hasn't. So we just keep, keep trying and I have great support. I have great colleagues and mentors and safe spaces, you know, people can, [00:29:00] can help, help me process and reflect and. Then just have the courage to get back at it and keep going. 

Sarah: If you could have given yourself one word of advice as a, as a young person, what would you have, what would you have told, told yourself?

Julie: I think to just enjoy, just enjoy the journey. Like perfection is just not a thing. And I definitely have some perfectionist tendencies. So that's been it. You know, process to, to grow past that and it's, it's a challenge still every day in some ways. But I think. Just appreciating the humanity of leadership, like appreciating these, these people that I, I, I really held as in such high esteem and now understanding and having some empathy and perspective into like their daily [00:30:00] experience and it makes me appreciate them even more because how they showed up and how they supported, even when things maybe were hard in their own life, They took the time to take a personal interest.

Julie: It was always professional and personal. I think I think for me, that's, that's the advice is, you know, people talk about work life balance and work and I'm like it for me, like the lines have always been blurry. And so I work best. In an environment where the lines are blurry, where it is, of course, I respect not everybody like wants to bring all their personal stuff to work and tell me everything.

Julie: I totally get that and but I do want people to be able to bring their whole selves to work and to be a space. [00:31:00] That just honors and embraces the messiness of life and work life, right? Like that's just, especially now, especially post pandemic. 

Sarah: So when you find yourself out of balance or creatively challenged, what do you do to take care of yourself, sharpen the saw, just get back to the big, beautiful mess?

Julie: Yeah. So I, I go through seasons of being good at that and being terrible at that. I'm entering a season of Kind of reclaiming that because frankly the last year has kind of been Not my best in that in that department. It's been a lot So I think focusing on my health first and foremost Because when I don't do that everything else just gets squirrely.

Julie: Sure and

Julie: Then my kids, of course, you know I'm, my son is a senior at [00:32:00] IU. My daughter's in eighth grade. And so always. Wanting to be present and prioritize a family. And my husband's super supportive. There's absolutely no way I could do this job without the support of my family. And they, and the cool thing is like, they do a lot of this stuff with me, which is, which I, I love.

Julie: And I appreciate that that's possible. I really value like being in nature, taking walks, walking my dog. And then the other thing is, is just experiencing the art. That is a pretty good benefit. It's a pretty good benefit. Yeah, I was at, this was in might have been like the summer of 21. It was still kind of COVID y, COVID y times.

Julie: And I was at a at a Asante Art Institute event out at Connor Prairie. It was a Sunday afternoon, I went by myself to see the show and I was [00:33:00] leaving and a colleague of ours drove up and said hi and just another, another arts colleague and, and they're like, Oh my gosh, aren't you exhausted? Like you're always working.

Julie: Like how this is, how, how are you doing this? It's always work. And without even I said, Oh, this isn't, this isn't work. Like this is why we do the work. Like for me, attending that performance is gas in my tank. Like that's so. And there are some days where you're, where you're tired and it's you, you know, but I think just maintaining that perspective has, has been really important and, and it's just how, how I truly feel about it.

Julie: So it is a, it is a benefit for sure. 

Sarah: I had a boss that said, if you feel like that, then you. We'll never actually have to go to work. 

Julie: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I mean, there's for sure aspects of the gig that are work. [00:34:00] 

Sarah: Budget days are less good. 

Julie: Yeah. There's for sure some, some work, work days, but it's but there's, there are a lot of, lot of benefits for sure.

Julie: Okay, so two 

Sarah: final questions. One that I ask everybody. One just for you. And the first one isn't fair, so I'll just acknowledge that at the beginning. But, if you had to pick a favorite project, or one that was transformational to you what would your favorite 

Julie: project or initiative be? So, you know, you're asking me an impossible question.

Julie: I know, I said it right. So, I will choose, I'm going to choose something from my time at Cincinnati Opera, because it would be absolutely impossible for me to pick a favorite of my current, my current situation, other than the pandemic stuff that we talked about. That is, that's, that has to be up there. When I worked at Cincinnati Opera, I was working with a creative [00:35:00] team that was really committed to new works and new commissions and engaging new audiences and, and really finding opera, kind of finding new ways for opera to be relevant.

Julie: And so we commissioned a new work in honor of the opening of the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center in Cincinnati, and it was a piece based on the story of Margaret Garner, which is the inspiration for Toni Morrison's Beloved. So, I, in addition to doing the PR, the national PR work, I got to serve as the liaison to the Toni Morrison Society.

Julie: So I spent three years working with the Toni Morrison Society, working with Toni Morrison's team, working on supporting this massive community engagement work around this, and working with a creative team that was grassroots fiercely committed to social justice and telling stories through this [00:36:00] art form.

Julie: And it, it was, it, it changed everything for me and being able to do that. This was in the early two thousands, the opera debuted in 2005 and being in the theater. On that opening night and experiencing the electricity of that audience, connecting to that story and the standing ovation and, and meeting Toni Morrison and like crawling under a table to get her chocolates after the chocolate place in the lobby clothes, like all of those things.

Julie: I'll just, I'll never forget that experience. And it was all about a community coming together to embrace and wrestle with this really tough story, really tough history. And and, and so I just, I bring that with me to the [00:37:00] work every day, but it was, it was an incredible experience and, and and so that's, that's a highlight for sure.

Julie: That's a once in a lifetime. For sure. Yeah, for sure. 

Sarah: Alright, so last one. What book should everybody read? What are you reading right now that you'd hand off or recommend? 

Julie: All right, this is going to feel like a setup and it kind of is, but, but I'm reading, there's a new book that's out and it's called your brain on art.

Julie: All right. And it is by an author. Her name is Susan Magsiman and she is going to be at the Indiana conference for women in October. Okay. And so I had already. I had already purchased her book. I'd already heard about it and purchased it and started reading. And then I saw that she's going to be at the Indiana conference for women.

Julie: And then this week I got an invite to come to the conference and introduce her. How cool is that? That's perfect. Right. So I haven't finished the book, but I can, [00:38:00] it's all about. So, what we know, like all of us that love the arts and advocate and work in the arts, we already know this for decades and decades, but it's, but it's the, it's the evidence on the impact of arts on our brain and our health and wellbeing and mental health and physical health.

Julie: And it's like art is medicine. So. It's very relevant and timely and important, but it's also a great read 

Sarah: That's that's a great answer thank you so much. Thank you for coming. Thanks for being a part of indiana's creative scene It's been such a pleasure speaking with you and working with you on the board and on all sorts of important initiatives To learn more about the indie arts council and all the outside Standing work that they are doing throughout central Indiana, visit double backslash Indy arts.

Sarah: org. And thank you for listening to illuminate navigating the unknown through creative leadership. We hope this episode has inspired you to go out and watch some art and has supplied some valuable [00:39:00] insights into the world of creative leadership. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast, wherever you get your podcast.

Sarah: So you never miss an episode. We'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback. So feel free to reach out to us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at Schmidt associates. Until next time, keep navigating the unknown with creativity and confidenc