Episode 25: Taking Care: A Health-Centered Conversation with Hosparus Health CEO David Cook

Introduction: Welcome to Luminate, where we dive into the minds of some of the most creative leaders shaping our world today. I'm Sarah Hempstead, architect, and CEO of Schmidt Associates. In this episode, I'm thrilled to sit down with David Cook, the President and CEO of Hosparus Health and Pallitus Health Partners. With over 20 years of experience in healthcare and non-profit sectors, David leads with a vision of innovation, community building, and expanding access to essential services for those navigating serious illness in Kentucky and Indiana.

Episode Overview: In our conversation, David shares his journey from a banking career to leading a major healthcare organization. He talks about his upbringing, early career challenges, and the pivotal moments that shaped his leadership philosophy. We delve into the significant role of hospice care, the importance of early conversations about end-of-life care, and the impact of comprehensive support for families during these challenging times.

David also reflects on his time in North Carolina, where he spearheaded innovative programs, including pediatric palliative care. We discuss the critical aspects of communication, consensus-building in leadership, and his passion for creating environments where his team and patients can thrive.

Key Highlights:

• David’s unique career path from banking to healthcare.
• The value of mentorship and the lessons learned from key figures in his professional life.
• Understanding the true essence of hospice care and its impact on families.
• The development and implementation of pediatric palliative care and the importance of supporting mental health and grief counseling.
• Insights on leadership, communication, and building trust within an organization.

Conclusion: David Cook’s leadership journey is a testament to the power of adaptability, compassion, and continuous learning. His commitment to providing holistic care for patients and their families is truly inspiring.

To learn more about the work of Hosparus Health, visit hospicehealth.org. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to Luminate wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an update. We’d love to hear your feedback—connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at Schmidt Associates.

Until next time, keep navigating the unknown with creativity and confidence.

Transcript

Episode 25: Taking Care: A Health-Centered Conversation with Hosparus Health CEO David Cook

Sarah Hempstead: Welcome to Luminate, where we talk to some of the most creative people I know. I'm Sarah Hempstead, an architect and the CEO of Schmidt Associates. And today I'm joined by David Cook, the president and CEO of Hosparus Health and Pallitus Health Partners. As president and CEO, David leads the operational and strategic efforts of both organizations, driving innovation, building community partnerships, and increasing access for services for patients and families who are navigating serious illness in Kentucky and Indiana. With more than 20 years of operational and financial leadership experience within the healthcare and non-profit sectors, David serves on boards of the National Partnership for Healthcare and Hospice Innovation, the Louisville Healthcare CEO Council, and the Kentucky Association of Hospice and Palliative Care. David, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here.

David Cook: Thanks, Sarah. Thank you for inviting me.

Sarah Hempstead: You were born just right here in Louisville, Kentucky. So tell me a little bit about growing up here in Kentucky.

David Cook: Yeah. Nothing fancy actually. Grew up on the sunny side in Southern Indiana. It's pretty simple. Family, my dad worked at Appliance Park GE my entire life, and almost all of my life. My mom worked at Kmart, and good hardworking mom and dad, very supportive but not terribly engaged either, just very much there making sure that I think as kids, my brother and I had the things that they didn't. And that was just consistency more than anything.

Sarah Hempstead: It's one of the things they wanted you to have, a college education?

David Cook: Not necessarily. So they were supportive of that, but it was really more about where we ended up and where we felt led to go. I would say, too, one of the things that my mom did was pray a lot and pray that we'd end up in the right spot. And she was also very supportive as a mom. And so it gave you that sense that you can do anything you want. And yeah, it was really up to you to decide what that was.

Sarah Hempstead: So what made you want to go that path?

David Cook: Really, I started out a path that isn’t where I am now. Started out with college at IU Southeast, and I worked full time while I went to school full time at night. Which, to be honest, I wasn't a stellar student out of the gate. And I think it was trying to balance being 19, 20, and having a life, also working full time in banking, and then also trying to be a full-time student. And out of the gate, it took me a bit to figure that out.

Sarah Hempstead: That's a lot. That's a lot for anybody to be a full-time student and a full-time employee. So you're funding your way through college at least in part?

David Cook: Yeah, so my parents helped a little bit out of the gate, and then what I was able to do was find a nice job with a local bank that had dollars that supported education. And so that helped fund and pay for college.

Sarah Hempstead: So that's what you were studying in college too, is banking and accounting?

David Cook: So I went into business, and back then I was like, "Ooh, accounting's like the really hard degree, so I'm going to stay away from that." But I wanted—I didn't want a general business degree. I wanted something a little more than just that. So I ended up running the finance path, which would have fallen into banking, and really, when I started into banking, here I'm 19 and I go in, and a friend's mother had gotten me this interview. And I go in, and they're like, "We're going to give you the job, but when you come back, make sure you've cut your hair. Like, your hair cannot touch your collar." And the funny things that we think back that were so important at that point in time as far as what was necessary for employment. And so I cut my hair and showed up to work.

Sarah Hempstead: So what did you like about doing that job?

David Cook: Out of the gate, I loved it. You're 19, you walk in, and you're like, "This is the best job ever." At one point, I was shameless in promoting that. Actually, they would dress up for Halloween, and I actually came as like the mascot, like the emblem of the bank. So I just—I loved the fact that going in, they had this really robust program for orientation and for training. And it was so supportive. And it was just—it was this great place to be, and I thought, here at my 19-year-old self, thinking, "I'm going to work here forever. Like, this is the best," and started to move into branch operations, which was a pivotal moment. I didn't realize that when I moved into branch operations, but started, and it was really my first step into leadership, was this assistant branch—our assistant manager of branch operations over 83 branches in Kentucky and Southern Indiana. And you do what comes your way, and there's not this program. Unfortunately, too often, you're not really told how to manage or be a leader. You just are given a job because you did something else pretty well. And they thought, "Can do this, just given that."

Sarah Hempstead: That's really interesting because you're talking about a culture that let you grow and encourage that growth, but maybe not an individual or person. Was there a person who was saying, "You ought to try or do this?" Or was it just a culture that was welcoming and helpful?

David Cook: I think it was all of that. And as I got into branch operations and started working there, there's a kind of an interesting—this is where I really met a couple of key individuals in my life that sort of did give me more direction in where to go. The first one was a gentleman who worked there and just—it was a mentor. He just took him seriously. And I'll never forget, everyone at the bank just appreciated him and valued him, and he carried such respect, but everybody knew him as just this really nice guy, Ralph Walthall. And so I remember that Ralph said to me in leadership, "Be hard on the problem and soft on the people." And that has been such a valuable just life lesson to think about when you're dealing with issues. It's—I don't have to be hard on the individuals that are in this. I just need to say, "Hey, we have to fix this problem. This is not an acceptable problem. How are we going to do that?" And it's been really valuable.

The second person was Susan Miller. And Susan Miller was—she's a tough leader, and people either loved Susan or not so much. And I remember I ended up working for Susan, and you don't know what to expect because this is suddenly—leadership had changed, and now Susan's my new boss. And the first interaction she comes down, and I don't even remember what the issue was, but she said, "We need to do this, and we need to do it this way." And it didn't make any sense. And I'm like, "Susan, we can get there, but—" And we argued for what felt like an hour. It was probably at least 30 minutes, but we argued, and I'm sitting here thinking, "I'm arguing with my new boss," but it was another pivotal moment because, for Susan, the fact that I was willing to stand up to her in a respectful way but push for what I thought was right—I was heard. She became a champion for me. And I remember the end of that conversation was so funny because she said, "That's what I was asking you to do from the beginning." And I'm like, "That is not what you were asking, Susan, but okay. That's what we'll all believe and move on."

Sarah Hempstead: Okay. You had a really great idea. That's what happened.

David Cook: Yeah.

Sarah Hempstead: No, that's a great leadership lesson, is the ability to put forth a contrarian point of view and defend it.

David Cook: Yeah.

Sarah Hempstead: And I guess you know you've won when someone else takes the idea and says that it's theirs, right?

David Cook: Yeah, that's what she was saying all along.

Sarah Hempstead: So what made the switch from banking to healthcare? At first glance, that seems like very contradictory kinds of skills, right? It's a hard and a soft.

David Cook: Totally not in my plan. When I was thinking, "I'm going to go into banking and business," but Susan, who we just talked about, she had always been on the board for many years of Hospice of Southern Indiana. And Susan had retired from the bank and had moved into a position as the director at Hospice of Southern Indiana. I'm still at the bank at this time, not necessarily loving the organization as I did as much when I was 19, and I'm thinking, "Okay, this is probably not where I want to spend the next 20 years." And Susan called me out of the blue, who really at this point believed in me and was such a champion. And she said, "Hey, I need you down here at hospice. I've got a job for you. I need help in the finance area. When can you get down here?" And I'm like, "Susan, I don't even know what hospice is." So she's, "You're going to be great. Just get down here." So sure enough, I went down, met with Susan, and really started working in hospice and fell in love with the model of care, the people, and just being able to serve in a capacity that you're making a difference and helping people. We can do that in many ways, but this is a really direct way.

Sarah Hempstead: So this might be a good time for people who, like you, didn't really know what hospice care is and how it's different. Could you maybe talk just a little bit about that for those who are uninitiated?

David Cook: Yeah. So one of the big things about hospice is too often, we don't seek the support and care of the hospice benefit until everyone in the room knows that mom needs hospice. But oftentimes, mom's already thinking that. Maybe the kids are already thinking that, but no one wants to talk about it, and we avoid the conversation, and it hurts everyone in the long run because everyone's thinking, "What are we going to do? Does mom want to continue?" And "I don't want to give up on mom," and mom's, "I don't want to give up for the kids, but this isn't necessarily the way that anyone wants to live their life sometimes in these situations." They don't want to have that conversation. Hospice really just creates a model of care that allows us to deal with those situations that are mom's situation, right? Whether she's got pain or symptom management or just needs some support in thinking through her plan of care. But where the beauty really falls is in what we can do for the family. Sadly, we aren't able to do that when we're called in at the last few days or hours. We might be able to address, and I almost think of it as a hierarchy of needs, right? You think of a hierarchy of needs as food or shelter. Sometimes it is nutrition, or it's pain management, or maybe it is placement. So it really is that hierarchy of needs, and we can address those. But really, the higher level is the support that we provide to the family, the engagement, the bringing relationship issues that have not been addressed for years between a father and a son or a daughter and her mom, being able to bridge the gap between those—that's where people really experience beauty in hospice care. That's where our team gets to deliver that support. Even if you're not ready, and I don't know when any of us are ready for hospice, call and find out about the program. Calling and having someone come out and share what the benefits are just educates you for when you are ready. And taking that step is so important.

Sarah Hempstead: And it seems like what you're describing is almost a Sherpa model. Somebody's been up that mountain before.

David Cook: Yeah, and the care workers, they know the way. They can help.

Sarah Hempstead: Absolutely. If I hear so many times, "We didn't know what to do. And your team was so amazing." They walked in, and somehow, I look at the model of care that we provide, and I look at what people say, and I'm like, "How did they get that much out of what we did?" It seems like there's some factor of how we engage with the family and support that family that is so much bigger than we can even imagine.

Sarah Hempstead: So I can hear how passionate you are about this. So you leave banking, and you go knowing nothing about hospice care, right? So, that's cool. Talk about what were your first few years like? How did this passion grow? Was it immediate?

David Cook: No. Moved from these really nice bank facilities to this old building in downtown New Albany on the second floor. And I'm suddenly not only trying to figure out the financials and how to bill Medicare and Medicaid and manage those pieces but also dealing with janitorial services as well. And there is no janitor that works for you. When I started, we were a very small program, and this was back 2000. It's a very small program, so you did everything. And that is really—I think being able to experience hospice services in that way is so true to the core of what it is. We always say we wear many hats, and that is from leadership throughout the organization. You just never know what you're going to need to do to make things run and to make sure that we're doing the right thing for patients and families.

Sarah Hempstead: So you were involved with the program here in Louisville for a long time, and then you left to go somewhere a little bit warmer. What's that? South Carolina? Is that right?

David Cook: North Carolina.

Sarah Hempstead: North Carolina. To still work for a hospice program, correct?

David Cook: Yeah. So I left, ended up in North Carolina, and transitioned into the role of CEO at a beautiful organization now known as Carolina Caring, based out of Hickory, North Carolina, and had a magnificent board there that was really supportive. And we just started really doing some innovative things. But before we did some of the innovative things that we needed to do to make sure that we were being relevant for the future, there were some things that we needed to do just to make sure that we were providing a holistic approach to care. And that was to introduce a pediatric program, pediatric palliative care, and hospice. And I don't know if people in the Louisville area know how fortunate we are to have the wonderful organization that we have that serves kids, whether they're hospice or whether they're upstream just dealing with serious illness, but—

Sarah Hempstead: The Courageous Kids model. The Courageous Kids program.

David Cook: Yeah. And so we modeled that when I was in North Carolina, having experienced it here, and we were able to bring that to that community. And that was something that just people couldn't even conceptualize at the time, but it was just amazing how beautifully that program came together. And then we did a lot of other innovative things too. But I think that was like, this is not exciting necessarily. This is not innovative. This is not going to make us any money, but this is something we need to do.

Sarah Hempstead: So talk a little bit about that. You mentioned working with your board, which in not-for-profit world and for-profit world too, we have to get that buy-in for those very important things that are not going to necessarily make us any money. But we need to do them anyway.

David Cook: Sure.

Sarah Hempstead: What did you learn about communication and consensus-building?

David Cook: Yeah, so I think the basis of communication and consensus-building really is about building trust. And we often talk about communication, right? And it's like, how do you effectively communicate? It starts by listening. So it's not communicating—too many things in life are just the opposite of what you think, right? And so communicating is listening and understanding and building trust. And I think you have to build that because if you want to move fast, and you want to be innovative, and you want to be able to do things, if you're constantly having to explain and go back to a board or staff or whoever and justify what you're doing, it slows you down. Once you build a level of trust, people are like, "Okay, go do that. We know you're going to be successful. And if not, you'll figure it out fast, and we'll pivot." So it's really about building that trust, and trust is all built on relationship.

Sarah Hempstead: So what made you come back to Kentucky?

David Cook: My wife and three boys and I were finally really getting adjusted to Hickory, North Carolina, and feeling connected and loving it there when I get a text message that says, "Hey, the CEO position is open at hospice. Won't you consider coming back?"

Sarah Hempstead: That's always how that works.

David Cook: Yeah. And so I went and talked to my wife and rocked her world because she just really, five years in, had gotten really comfortable and settled.

Sarah Hempstead: Finally gotten all the new paint done and boys settled in school.

David Cook: Yeah. Everything organized and settled. And I said, "Hey, there's an opportunity. We need to pray about this, think about it, and let's just apply for it. And we'll walk through the process and see what happens." And ultimately, here we are.

Sarah Hempstead: So you come back in 21?

David Cook: Yep.

Sarah Hempstead: I was going to say in a post-COVID world, but that's not really true. It was still a mid-COVID world.

David Cook: Yes.

Sarah Hempstead: So what was that like for you as a leader to be coming in amidst a global health crisis? You're always dealing with health crises, and then this is a new layer on top of it.

David Cook: Yeah, I think it was challenging for everyone. But there was an opportunity to look at this and say, are we going to sit stagnant for the next, what we thought at first was six weeks—"Just stay home for two weeks, and then everything will clear out"—six weeks, we'll be done. So you start to think, are we going to just focus on how we're going to manage the pandemic, or are we going to push through and be innovative because this is going to be two to three years that we're going to lose? And I was surrounded by a team in North Carolina and here in Louisville that was willing to say, "We can do more, and we need to think, and we need to figure out how we are going to support patients and families because healthcare is changing. And if we don't change, the model that we've provided is not going to fit. We're not going to be able to help people the way we've always helped people if we don't figure out how to adjust and change to the care environment." And so even though we took the challenges and we walked through the things that we had to do with the pandemic, at the same time, we were pushing and thinking about innovation.

Sarah Hempstead: I think a lot about the mental health and well-being of staff all the time, but in particular, healthcare staff during COVID or doing these highly stressful jobs like your staff do all the time. How do you think about support and culture, keeping them happy and whole so that they can do their really intense jobs on the daily?

David Cook: Yeah. So one thing that I believe is if you take care of your people, they'll take care of your patients and families. And so it was always focused on how are we going to take care of our staff? And not just our field staff, but our office staff as well.

Sarah Hempstead: Sure.

David Cook: And how can our field staff do things that would support the office staff? Because I remember we did a video in North Carolina, and it was donning and doffing your equipment to go into a home.

Sarah Hempstead: Sure. Yeah.

David Cook: And so you're putting on this paper-plastic bag gown and a shield. And I remember one of our nurses came back, and she was in the middle of caring for this patient, and we were halfway through the process, and my face shield steamed up. I couldn't see anything. And I had to ask the family member, "Can you wipe my face shield off?" She's—there was no way I was going to stop and try to start over again. So it was just crazy when you looked at what we were asking people to do, but it was what you had to do. And so we laughed a lot. We supported people. We did more t-shirts and giveaways and thank-yous. And just said, it's just like work, even when there's not a pandemic—it's a whole lot better to go to a job where you enjoy the people that you work with, and you have fun, than it is to go into someplace where you're like, "Oh, I'm going to have to work on how we're going to deal with masks. And are we going to put them in this toaster oven to clean them because we can't get more? And are they going to catch on fire?" And so you just have to laugh about it. And we did a lot of laughing in that process, but we took care of business, and we made sure that we did it the right way. We tried to have fun in the middle of chaos.

Sarah Hempstead: Did you learn anything through that process that you still implement now that's different than what you were doing before?

David Cook: I think it really—I started to see this—it's just in leadership is that you can do more than you think you can do. We often feel paralyzed. I remember one time going through, and we were listing all of the regulatory things that we had to do to maintain just business. And we're all like, "Wow, that's all we can do. There's so much there." And you can get buried by that if you focus on it. So I always love the story about you take one of your children out to learn to drive in the parking lot, and there's one pole, and they run into it. And it's don't focus on the pole. And so I think it is just focusing yourself on, "Okay, we're not going to let this totally captivate us. We're not going to focus on the pole. We're going to figure out how we're going to do some other things that we need to do along the way."

Sarah Hempstead: So what's the next big thing? What's the next big thing for Hosparus Health?

David Cook: We have big things coming. But the one that I want to talk about most at the moment is we are working and trying to raise funds to build the first freestanding inpatient care center for our community. It's been a long time coming, and many people know that we operate a facility downtown at the top of the old Methodist Hospital. And we've done some beautiful work and not necessarily in the best space. Rooms are smaller than they need to be. Families can't all be around the bedside at times because there's simply not enough room. There's not enough family space. People are dealing with the loss of their mom or their dad, and they're trying to figure out, "Okay, this says 315 East Broadway, but I'm not at 3rd Street." It's not where you would think it should be. And then, "Where's the parking garage?" And then, "How do I actually get from the parking garage?" These are things we don't want people to have to worry about.

David Cook: Sure.

David Cook: Having situations where I think we can't use rooms because of just temperature and different things. Really needing that new space where people can come, park, walk in, and be focused on helping their loved one, dealing with their grief. We actually own the space where we want to build the new inpatient care center, just announced last week. We cut the ribbon on a brand new grief counseling center, where you've got that campus that is going to help people with so much. And I'm going to shift a minute, if I can, to grief. It's so important right now with all the mental health and all the stress and the difficulties that we're facing. We've got to figure out how to help people walk through that—mental health issues—and how do we support even kids in those times so that they can move forward in a healthy way. And so we were so thrilled to be able to open that grief counseling center, and we're really excited about that. Getting to a point where we've got enough funds that we can start construction on that new inpatient care center.

Sarah Hempstead: So if people are curious and they want to know either how to help or how to get services, what should they do?

David Cook: Yeah, so the easiest way is to go to hosparushealth.org. There's a donate button there if you want to donate to help us make this inpatient care center a reality. You can just indicate that's what your gift is for. If you are needing and you want to find out more about hospice services or palliative care services, which we also offer—those are for patients that aren't medically eligible or maybe not ready for hospice, or maybe culturally just don't fit into that hospice bucket but still are dealing with serious illness—we're finding ways to help people through palliative care. We also—I don't want to miss mentioning that we just launched a brand new PACE program in Elizabethtown that's going to cover Bullitt, LaRue, Nelson, Hart, and Grayson counties. And so that's really for people who are eligible for nursing home placement but want to live at home and are struggling to do so without some level of support. And so the PACE model of care is just amazing. So if you've got a family member, you can go to Care Guide Partners PACE—that's our sister organization for PACE—and learn more about the PACE program. It's really great. Super program. We're so pleased to be able to offer it.

Sarah Hempstead: Being involved in healthcare for as long as you have, you've seen a lot of change and a lot of trends. It really seems like programs like PACE are responding to that need, to this larger generation requiring extra help and maybe some of them wanting to stay home.

David Cook: Yeah. I think through the pandemic, we saw that people wanted to stay home more. People that were working stayed home and decided, "Hey, I like this." It's not everybody, but a lot of people did, and they're like, "I want to stay at home." And we think about that, and we see family members that are aging, that are starting to have difficulty, and you think, "Okay, I'm not sure mom's okay to be at home alone." And you move mom into your house, and that works for a while. You've got to go to work, and PACE is such a beautiful model in that it's for those individuals who are Medicare/Medicaid primarily. Anyone can come into PACE, but if you're Medicare and Medicaid, it's fully covered. It provides all your services, transportation to your care. It's just a beautiful program. And again, healthcare's changed a lot, and we've seen that there are different needs and some needs that maybe have always been there that we just haven't addressed.

Sarah Hempstead: Yeah, that seems like a lot of that is about quality of life as well as quantity, right? That quality of life piece is just critical.

David Cook: Yeah. And if you think about the roots of hospice—our hospice was started in 1978—volunteers that came together that said, "There's got to be a better way to do this." And so we've taken that belief and carried it forward to say, "How do we take this holistic team approach that supports people where they want to be and where they want to live? How do we expand on that model?" And PACE really is just another layer of how you can do that for a different group of individuals that aren't necessarily end-of-life but just need assistance, and they want to stay at home.

Sarah Hempstead: So if you think back on your career, back on your education, if you could have advised young David, what would you tell him? What do you know now that you wish you had known at 19?

David Cook: At 19, I should have paid more attention to class. But I would say as far as leadership, honesty is always the best policy. Be honest, be transparent when you can. And when you can't, just tell people, "I really can't share that yet," or, "I don't know the answer." I think I'm actually coaching a leader now who's new into their role. And I think so many leaders that are new in that role walk in, and they're like, "Okay, now I've got this job, and I have to know all the answers, and I have to prove that I deserve this position." And again, it's just the opposite. You totally need to be asking all kinds of questions. And that signals to your leader, "I want to get this right. I want to make sure and understand this is what I'm thinking." Always have an idea or a plan, but use your resources, work with your peers, invite them in, ask for help. People innately want to help. And we often see that a lot of issues in leadership where teams can't get along is because people want to be involved, or they want to help, and they're not asked to. And so people get upset. "They're doing this," or, "They're not doing it the right way." Invite people in. It's the best way to move forward. So I think that would be my advice is just to not worry so much, ask lots of questions, and invite others in to help.

Sarah Hempstead: So we asked about staff and their mental health and how to keep everybody whole. What do you do? What do you do to stay healthy and be ready to come to work the next day to do it all again?

David Cook: We can't be good at everything, can we?

Sarah Hempstead: No, we cannot.

David Cook: This role, my wife, three teenage boys—you have to find joy in everything you do, and you've got to be optimistic. You've got to be positive. And I think when you can find joy in the day-to-day and whether it's sitting at a baseball game in the rain for three hours, how do you find joy in that moment? I think you've got to look at perspective because there's never enough time to do what you want to do in life. So find joy in what you have to do.

Sarah Hempstead: I think that's awesome. Alright, so two final questions. This has been totally delightful. One question that I ask everybody, and one that I'm just going to ask you. So just for you, as you look back on your healthcare leadership journey, do you have a story that's your go-to about somebody really making a difference?

David Cook: One that just—I remember, gosh, and there's just so many, as you can imagine. In what we do, we're doing mission moments every week, so there are so many stories of connecting. One that just sticks out to me was a family. Their loved one was in the hospital, and it was Christmas Eve, and they didn't have a car, and they needed to get home, but they needed medicine to go home with their loved one. And we never transport medicine, just one of the rules that we follow. And so how are we, on Christmas Eve, going to get this family home with the medicines that they need so that everybody could be home for Christmas? We ended up working through—at that point in time, it was taxi. There was no Uber, so we had to get—and then, of course, the taxis, they have to pay, and we're trying to work through how can we pay this in advance. So we worked through all the steps to be able to get the taxi to take them to the pharmacy to get the meds that they needed. And then—I don't think this was supposed to be what happens, but the ambulance actually let the family ride home with the patient. We made that happen for that family, and there's story after story of just how our team goes the extra mile to make sure that those end-of-life experiences and family opportunities are there.

Sarah Hempstead: That's really beautiful. And for that family, one last Christmas home together.

David Cook: Yeah.

Sarah Hempstead: Alright, so my question I ask everybody: What are you reading? What's a really good book that you recommend everybody pick up and read this summer?

David Cook: I'm getting ready to start reading a book that my friend in North Carolina wrote called "The Anatomy of Leadership" by Chris Como. I feel I worked with him so closely when I was there, I feel like I know what the book's going to say, but I've got to read it. So that's going to be the next book I read. Looking back, one of the books that I would recommend for people if you're trying to build a team and leadership—Lencioni really talked about the five dysfunctions and trust being one of those. But if you want to take that a step further, I like "Leadership and Self-Deception" is a book that's out there. It's a story. It's different. It's a super easy read, and it really helps each of us think not only in our work life but in our personal lives—do we put people in a box? Do we start to frame who they are, which then creates judgments about what they say and do, and we start putting them in that box, which often means that they put us in a box?

Sarah Hempstead: Interesting.

David Cook: And so how do you—in the terms of the book—get out of the box? And so it's really an interesting read, and I think it helps people really reframe how they think about other people and view other people and break down some of those things that we do, even unconsciously, that keep us from achieving the trust and relationship that we need.

Sarah Hempstead: Two great recommendations and not ones that we've heard before. So thank you so much.

David Cook: You're welcome.

Sarah Hempstead: So David, thanks for being here today. I enjoyed speaking with you. What you do is so meaningful to so many people. And to learn more about Hosparus Health, please visit hosparushealth.org. And thank you for listening to Luminate: Navigating the Unknown Through Creative Leadership. We hope this episode has inspired you and has supplied valuable insight into the world of creative leadership. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so that you never miss an episode. And we love to hear your thoughts and feedback, so connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at Schmidt Associates. And until next time, keep navigating the unknown with creativity and confidence.