Episode 34: Purpose-Driven Change at Butler University's Founders College with Dr. Carolyn Gentle-Genitty

In this inspiring episode, CEO Sarah Hempstead sits down with Dr. Carolyn Gentle-Genitty, inaugural dean of Founders College at Butler University, to explore how visionary leadership and lived experience are reshaping access to higher education.

Dr. Gentle-Genitty shares her journey from growing up in Belize to serving as dean of a bold new college model designed for high-ability, low-wealth students. With stories that span grassroots youth leadership, systemic change in U.S. higher education, and her role in leading a program built on access, equity and purpose, this conversation is a masterclass in servant leadership, innovation and resilience.

Listeners will hear about:

• Designing academic spaces with intentionality and belonging
• Removing barriers to student success through policy and practice
• The power of mentorship, storytelling and showing up
• How education can shape better citizens, not just better careers

This episode is more than a conversation. It is a call to design boldly, lead with purpose and make space for those too often left behind.

🔗 Subscribe and follow us at @SchmidtAssociates on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook.

Transcript

Sarah Hempstead: [00:00:00] Welcome to Luminate, Navigating the Unknown Through Creative Leadership. I'm Sarah Hempstead, CEO, and principal-in-charge at Schmidt Associates, and today's guest brings both lived experience and visionary leadership to higher education. Dr. Carolyn Gentle-Genitty is the inaugural Dean of the Founder's College at Butler University.

Sarah Hempstead: A bold new initiative designed around access, equity, and purpose-driven degrees for historically underserved students, a scholar, a social worker, and an academic leader. She spent more than 25 years championing systematic change from reshaping academic policy at Indiana University to launching a college built to serve students who need it most.

Sarah Hempstead: Raised and Belize by a family rooted in service and education. She brings passion and purpose to every role. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I'm so glad to have you here. You are the oldest of five children. I am the oldest of four. Ah, let's start there. How did that role [00:01:00] start 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: to shape your leadership style?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: An interesting question, not because of the way it was formulated, but the, the way I may choose to respond most times it's only after the fact that you realize you've done something great, you've formed values or you've done right. So sort of looking back, but in reality that wasn't quite the case for me.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I had to live it while being in it. So yes, I'm the eldest, but we're literally maybe nine months to a year apart. Mm-hmm. So it was a matter of instantaneously jumping into that role and living that role my entire life. All five of you. All five of us. So very early on, I, I had to take on the role of taking care of brothers and sisters in the home, from feeding to baiting, to educating to later on helping with [00:02:00] homework, going to pick up the report cards.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So my life has, again, from birth, essentially has been taking care of others. And that's the value that I bring to who I am today. I think about others in decisions that I make. I think about others in the decisions I don't make, as well as how I want to show up in a space. Because being the eldest means you are a role model, not often by joys, but your role model.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And I can remember very clearly there was a a time I enjoyed reading. I enjoyed books. Playing outside was not something that I enjoyed as much, but I had to because of brothers and sisters. So we would take them out so they could run. Then I'll have time to read. But I remember going to pick up the report card for my, uh, youngest sister and going, she goes like, I don't want you to go, like, why?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Like, I would be better than mom. She says, no, [00:03:00] you asked too many questions. You're, you're too much like my parent. And it was at that time that I realized that though I was not the parent, I role modeled the expectations of working hard, giving things your best. And oftentimes my brothers and sisters view that not as a sister, but as a parent.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And those are things that I still pay attention to. Now, as a leader 

Sarah Hempstead: and getting watched, whether you knew you were or not, 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: right? Correct. At all times, correct. 

Sarah Hempstead: Well, and you grew up in Belize as well? Yeah. So what was different about, um, leadership style and learning there than, than 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: here? Whew. I've never had that question asked.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I think for me, leadership in Belize has a lot to do with your appearance and the expectation of the community within which you thrive, not necessarily live. So for instance, yes, I'm originally from Belize, but my parents are from cao, [00:04:00] that sort of the middle area of Belize, there's a lot of fruit, trees and vegetables.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And so you go out and you get like, I remember getting oranges off the tree. I remember picking avocado off the tree. I remember going for water. Right. So there, there's a, a different type of leading by the activities that you engage in every day. Sure. But I also remember being in primary school and because I.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I am five, five some days, and most days five, four and a half. But I was this height from the moment I was in primary school, so I would be behind the line and I would then be as tall as the boys. As a result of that. On Fridays, I had my, my fights as a bully, so I had these two juxtaposition of sort of growing up.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So then as a leader, I think if I look back, I could remember making good choices and [00:05:00] bad choices. And in Belize I had more of a freedom to do that because of choices that I made, like going and eating healthy stuff, getting it off the tree, exercising outside, being engaged with community, volunteering, but also the bad decisions by, okay, because I am this height, I can bully you or wrong and I can do this.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Recognizing that there had to be a balance in that. So I think that's one that I may take away. I don't know if others get the same experience here in the us, but it's one that I remember from Belize. A little bit of freedom gives you the opportunity to learn from bad choices as 

Sarah Hempstead: well as good one.

Sarah Hempstead: Correct. So when you were, uh, when you were in primary school, did you know you wanted to go into education? Was that something that, that came to you easily and early or was it a I know I wanted to be in charge. Okay. That checks out. That makes sense. Fully you. 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: But what I did not know, I ran, uh, very early on I [00:06:00] was engaging youth work.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I had my first youth group around the age of nine or 10, just again because I had brothers and sisters and I was used to sort of hurting them along to do some positive activity. So I thought it was gonna be in youth work. So I became a youth counselor very early, worked with gang and gang development and, and did youth counseling.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Moved into the ambassador realm for the country. So doing that, um, through UNICEF as well as Caricom very early. But most times I found myself trying to explain complex jargon or work in layman's terms. And as a result, somebody would say, well, why don't you teach that to so and so? Why don't you teach that to so and so?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I gradually moved into that teaching realm and I enjoyed it because it allowed me to be both creative again, just sure my leadership, right? So allowing me to be creative with some structure, but still being myself. [00:07:00] So did that lead you to the YMCA? Is that the start of an formal kind of teaching role? I wish that were the end answer.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: But no, I went, I did my bachelor's and master's in Louisville, Kentucky. I had fun doing that. Was a rat queen while in Kentucky, as you know, they race horses. Mm-hmm. Uh, within the university we were racing rats outta the la the chu lab. She wanna go. 

Sarah Hempstead: You were a rap queen? Yeah. Okay. We're gonna need to stop all the stories there.

Sarah Hempstead: What is a rat queen? Tell me more. A rat queen. You, it's a fundraising 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: endeavor and so you must go out, work with the community, raise uh, dollars, and then you, whoever wins, gets to race the rat almost like a millionaire. Yeah. And you would have a rat in the race and, and you would go through Anyway, it was a long story, but it was fun.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Right. So it's, it's one of those things where I had that experience, but at the same time as I tried [00:08:00] to figure out. What I wanted to do. It still didn't come to me. I studied social work. I enjoyed social work. I didn't start off, I wanted to be a, a lawyer and conversation has it that I talked with a couple people and it was more about studying what happened in the past and not what happens in the future or what's happening now.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So I switched to, so to psychology and I thought, oh, this is purely about fixing people. That was not my wish. Landed in social work very quickly and, but when I finished and I decided to go back to Belize, there was not a role called social work. Okay. I had to figure out where I would land. I reached out to a couple colleagues.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: They indicated that they were looking for an executive director of the YMC of Belize. At this point, the position would run programs across the entire country and not just in Belize City. Wow. And I thought, okay, I will put in my application and see what happened. I [00:09:00] eventually landed that position and ran that for about five years.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: That's a pretty, that's a pretty broad impact. It was, it was. We did a whole bunch of creative programs within some good lanes. So what was it that made you leave that role and come back to the states service? I spent, when I got there, there was a need for a lot. So yes, I was the executive director of the social work program, uh, of the, not the social of the YMCA, but the University of Belize had just launched or was almost in the process of launching an associate degree for social work.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And they needed more individuals to, to train or help with that. Sure. So I spent some time then helping them to build that curriculum for an associate's degree program. The government then required every human service professional across the entire country, had to go back to complete this associate's degree.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So then my scope of teaching expanded [00:10:00] from teaching one or two courses to being a part of that curriculum. So these are individuals 2, 3, 4 times my age at that time. At that time I was 23, uh, helping with this program and teaching. And once we got it off the ground, I built some good relationships. We agreed then that it was probably time to launch a bachelor's degree program.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So I helped to launch the bachelor's degree program at that time while still running the YMCA, using it as an internship site as well, writing some grants with organization of American States to work on workplace development and workplace, workplace preparedness, getting family members engaged to help their students who were struggling.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: We also then launched a. Primary school at the YMCA for boys who got caught up in violence or other and were kicked out of other school systems. 

Sarah Hempstead: Sure. 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So I served in as the alternative, uh, principal. As the principal for the alternative school. 'cause you needed a third job or so for three, four. How many [00:11:00] there yet now?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I know, but it was, it was just so much fun and we, we just did a lot of things at that time. So my scope just sort of grew and then the interest in, in education at that point just grew further from there. Yeah. Well, it sounds like 

Sarah Hempstead: you were highly involved with education already at that point. I 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: was, but then not everybody was interested.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Right. So I also had a youth talk show. It was called Riveting Vibes, straight Off Your As Bull. Right. It was just this process of helping people to understand that the core of what we do in life is about relationships. It was just, it just started off by talking about young people and their relationships, and we had a, it was every Saturday morning, and we had adults who were calling in about marriage and marriage counseling.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So I eventually became a marriage counselor just to help guide through that, those challenges that they were experiencing. So it was just, I had fun. 

Sarah Hempstead: The riveting vibes have like a opening theme song. Can we find it online? I wish you could. I don't 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: even remember it, but we [00:12:00] did have a theme song. Yeah. 

Sarah Hempstead: I don't remember.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I gotta go look for 

Sarah Hempstead: it. All right. This is gonna be my YouTube quest tonight to find the riveting vibe theme song. All right, so you're, you're running the school, you've got a show, you're running the YMCA over the whole country. You're starting these new programs. That's a lot. Yeah. What, what called you to 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: make a change?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: What called you to leave? There were a lot of changes occurring in Belize at that time. Mm-hmm. Most of the individuals they were hiring to make those changes were foreigners. 

Sarah Hempstead: Okay? 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: They would get someone with a PhD who would come to the country for two weeks. They would do all these listening tours and engagement, and they'll write up a really good report and we would be happy, and they'll give it to the government.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Then when they leave, the government will say, we now need to figure out who will implement these. I found myself in a lot of those [00:13:00] implementation conversations, mapping data, coming up with outcomes, meeting with the community, launching programs, designing initiatives, and at that point, I'll put a pin right there before leaving Spalding University with my master's degree.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I took the GRE and I told myself that the GRE was, because it was good for five years, I will go back for a PhD within five years. So engaged in these conversations because it kept coming up over and over and over. I then realized it was time to go for the PhD. I reached out to a faculty member who I had a love-hate relationship with, gave me my first C when I moved over to, huh.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: But at that time, she just said, you know, you're getting the C not because you're not smart enough that she gave an [00:14:00] assignment and the assignment was to write something for, but it had to be three pages, and I thought I needed five pages to do it, and she only graded the first three pages, so I did not get a good score.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Mm-hmm. When I met with her, she just said, sometimes you need broad shoulders, but you gotta follow the directions. It's good advice. It was very good advice. Not one that I wanted at that time, but it was very good advice. Eventually then when it was time to go back, coming back to the pin, I reached out to her and I said, I am thinking of doing this.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And she goes, by golly, you should, but I am no longer in Kentucky. I am at Indiana University and I think that's where you should apply. And that's the only time I will give you a letter of recommendation. She was bold, uh, and I love her to debt for it. She did. I applied, I got in, I got a full scholarship to [00:15:00] spald it to Indiana University to do my PhD.

Sarah Hempstead: I love that story. And one of the things I love about it is it's not often you get a mentorship story that that starts with a little bit of conflict. But that's, those can be some of the very best mentors are is somebody who pushes you so hard that it hurts for 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: a minute. Yeah. And that's what she did.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And all the way up, she helped to hood me. She did a whole bunch of stuff. You That's awesome. Even for my son, she knitted his first hat. Yeah, it was, it was good. Alright, so you end up in Bloomington, 

Sarah Hempstead: you've worked really 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: hard and now you start working for Indiana University because I taught, before coming, I didn't wanna just be a student.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Sure. So when I came, I lived downtown Indianapolis in one of the apartments beside the Ronald McDonald House. So that was my first initiative. I thought that if we were that close, we needed to do something there. So I started, I started a doctoral student [00:16:00] association where we would give back to the community.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So our first event and our regular uh, activity was with the Ronald McDonald House. Through that process, I met some faculty members that were really engaged, again, the tough ones. And one of 'em had a faculty member in the School of Public and Environmental Affairs, and that faculty member was going on maternity leave and asked this other faculty member whether or not he knew of the student who would be willing to teach her class.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And without a doubt, he recommended me to this colleague. And I said, but I haven't taught yet at this university. I don't know. Uh, he goes, you got this. So I spent some time reviewing. I eventually took over this course three weeks in, they brought a dean or associate dean of the program to come and pay attention or shadow, whatever word you want to use.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Sure. What I was [00:17:00] teaching that day, I didn't know. I just knew somebody was coming. I didn't know what they looked like. I got in a class, I taught my stuff. She came out afterwards and said, oh, I'm the person that's evaluating your program, and she said, for a minute there, I thought you were a seasoned professor.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And she gave me the best evaluation ever. I then got about, gosh, every semester, at least two or three courses to teach in that program while doing my PhD. Excellent. Then my dean said, why are you doing all your teaching in SPE A instead of in social work? Isn't that your major? That's valid point. Very valid.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So I got then a couple teaching opportunities within the school of social work. I then went through a little tug of war. Some wanted me in the master's, some wanted me in the undergrad. So I did two courses in both while doing the PhD, and so by the time I got there finishing my PhD, the [00:18:00] dean said, there's no way I am gonna let you go.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: We have to figure out something for you. And I'm like, I still wanna go back home to Belize. And so I went home, that's Christmas and there was an election. And when I went home, because of the election, if you understand Belize's politics, about 70% of the population is employed by the government. So if there's an election, that means there's an overturning off people, especially if it's a new guard that comes into power.

Sarah Hempstead: Interesting. 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So I thought that's probably not the best environment to put myself in. If an election's gonna come up in March. Mm-hmm. It means that I may have a job only for two to three months and I may then have to choose another. So I went back and I told them, you know, I don't mind exploring. I moved into a.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Visiting professor position. Mm-hmm. Uh, visiting assistant professor position for one year, but before the year was finished, I think by February, this is November. By February, he had figured out an opportunity for me [00:19:00] to move into a full-time position. He moved into an assistant professor position and moved all the way up to a full tenured professor.

Sarah Hempstead: And so some people would be happy with that and there would be tenured professors, and they would, they would ride that out for 40 years. And that is, that is wonderful and noble. But you thought a little bigger than that, right? I mean, you, I thought access and innovation is, I know one of your passions and you flipped.

Sarah Hempstead: Not flipped, yeah. You started to include in your journey Yeah. Systematic change to get more learners in the university. Talk. Talk about that. Where'd that compassion come from and how did you start to do that? 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: It actually began from home, right? I always had to think of not just myself and others. I remember when I got accepted to St.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Catherine's Academ, it's an all girls Catholic, almost private type high school, and the first thing after getting admitted was, how can I make sure my sister also has [00:20:00] that same access? Remember, we're one after the other, so it was me and then my sister. And so that's the same thing that happened as I moved through the journey.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: It was not just about me, it was also about others. When I was, I just got tenured, so moving from assistant to associate, there was a transition in the executive director role for social work and that it was an interesting role. The dean said, you know, I really would like you to step into this role as an interim to hold over.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: You don't have to do all the campuses. Only Indianapolis manage the undergraduate program there. And I said, I don't mind doing that, but don't give up my office because I'll be back within a year. Within six months he gave up my office. I'm like, and so I'm like, okay, does that mean I'm moving from interim into this role full time?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Uh, we went through a process that he said, sure. I moved [00:21:00] into then managing the entire Indianapolis campus mm-hmm. For social work program. And again, the issue was, or the concern was still there, that we can advance and expand. So at that time we were catering to maybe about 9 80, 9 90 students, and I had a vision of bringing that out to at least 250 students in the enrollment.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Mm-hmm. So I spent some time looking across the curriculum, recognizing that a student can start in an evening program, but their entire. Curriculum was not mapped all the way. So then I tried to build that out so that a student could do an entire degree in the evening. I did another where all the students can do a fully online degree if they wanted one, where they could do in their entire degree.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: On the weekends. We grew to 250. We hired some extra staff, did really, really well. So that experience. Then the chancellor on the IUPY campus at that time [00:22:00] said he wanted to create an online fellowship because he wanted to figure out how to offer online degrees for the entire IUPY campus. And I was tagged as that person to take on that inaugural fellowship.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I did 50% in social work and 50% in his office. And he said, I'll give you a year. And I said, what if I figure it out early? What do I do with the rest of my time? He just said, well, you do whatever you want with the rest of your time. And I'm like, okay, you got a deal. So I used my social work skills and did some fact finding some evaluation.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Social work is a feel where you pay attention to stimuli, pattern and behavior. If something's not working quite well, you have to adjust one of those, whether it was a stimuli, the disrupt the pattern or change the behavior. So I used that same process to [00:23:00] examine what was happening with online education on the campus and found that the bottleneck was English and math when working with the state require that you be able to offer the entire general education core online before you can expand into a degree.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So that's how I sort of did a backward design, worked with the English department. They were ready. They had a couple kinks that we needed to work out. We worked that out maybe within two and a half months. Well, math, it's a little bit more tricky. They didn't wanna change what they were doing. They were worried about proctoring and engagement and whether or not students are really taking the task.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So I said, are these the three things then that you think? And they're like, if you could fix that, great. So I said, okay, you continue to have your meeting with your faculty. As soon as you think you're ready to have that conversation with me, I'll drop everything I'm doing and I'm gonna come over to your school and we'll fix that.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Mm-hmm. In the meantime, I did research on proctoring and all the other, got my [00:24:00] colleagues ready, got the vendors ready, and just about maybe mid-September, I got this call while I was in another meeting and said, we're in a faculty meeting right now and they wanna know about these options. I'm like, okay, gimme 30 minutes.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I dropped everything, called my colleagues. Got them ready on Zoom, ran over to the space As they were asking questions, I had my team ready to respond to them. By November, we were done math, agreed to do a pilot. English was on board P, and so by literally like December one, I said, here's your deliverable.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Then I had fun for the remainder of the time, talking with different units, exploring different creative processes, joining a lot of strategic planning. So all of that then brought me to where I moved into an assistant vice president for university academic policy role, another inaugural role, and [00:25:00] that was the university saying we're across seven campuses to co-location and fully online.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: We don't have anybody that manages all the academic policies and we need somebody to be able to do that. We're thinking of inaugurating this new position. Would you be interested, I love 

Sarah Hempstead: this, I love the story of building, building consensus in the deep dive and finding the problems with the people who were dealing with it.

Sarah Hempstead: 'cause it's almost the exact opposite of what you said was happening in Belize with an expert who would fly in for two weeks and then write a report and then bounce. Um, you did the exact opposite. 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: You are absolutely correct. Huh? Learning, but it builds relationships. Absolutely. Ownership before the end.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Yeah. 

Sarah Hempstead: And buy-in to the solution. Mm-hmm. And then you did what you said you would do, which was drop everything. And, and, 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: and that was the best experience. We then built almost 30 online degrees for that campus. [00:26:00] And for iu, we then worked through building almost 1,200 degrees building, merging, sunsetting.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Yeah. 

Sarah Hempstead: And 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: you know, now 

Sarah Hempstead: almost every campus has some version of online degrees. Correct. But, um, but then it was changed the game It has. That's amazing. And we'll continue to do so, but continue to, yeah. So now you've taken all of those learnings and you're channeling it into the founder's college. Yeah.

Sarah Hempstead: Which, which is a totally new initiative. So first of a kind model. So for those who have never heard of it, can you take a minute to explain 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: what Founders' College is and how it is set apart from anything like it? Wow. And I know it's based on the Come to Believe model, so some who may, Google, may, may find that there's at least three others within that, that window.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: But the first of its kind here in Indy, it is a two year. Interdisciplinary non-residential model for students from high [00:27:00] ability and low wealth who see themselves going to college. That's the simplistic model. When you ask what we do and what we stand for, I believe it's about removing the randomness of student success.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And by that I mean think of your own experience, whether it's elementary school, all the way up to post grad. When you struggle in finding anything, whenever there is a pain point, you don't search out that thing as often. Whether that's parking, whether that's finding your advisor, whether that's buying your books, whether that's finding a good supportive instructor.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: The intentionality is important Then in design. For founders college, we are making sure that anything, or any pain point that we already know about, I mean, higher ed has been around for centuries. Mm-hmm. Right. If it's been around that long, there are pain points that we know [00:28:00] exist. Mm-hmm. And if so, we want to remove them before it becomes a friction point.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Uh, which is why space is a factor. Location is a factor. Uh, the people who show up is a factor, and cost is also a factor. Absolutely. 

Sarah Hempstead: So you talked about space. So how does physical space play a role in fostering student success, particularly for, particularly for this group of students? 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Yeah, and it should be for everybody.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: It's like your office space, right? It's like your home. When you think about space, the visual I normally give an individual is, imagine you are in your bedroom and you are sick, you're lying down. You want things that are a little bit more comfortable. Easy to access and the support that you believe will help you.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Mm-hmm. So whether that's calling for somebody, so you wanna make sure somebody's home and can hear you, whether that's grabbing a bottle of water that's near the bed, right? You want [00:29:00] things that are close by. And with the mall that we've built for founders, it's almost like that. It's a small space where the classrooms are there.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Uh, think of the old Cheers process. Everybody knows your name, right? So there's a front door and a back door and, and sort of coming in. But all of your supports are right there. Student services, financial aid services, career services, the social worker, the admission staff, the counselor, everybody in the same space.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And then you need to nurture yourself, right? So there is a small social hub that allows you to get whatever it is that you believe will, uh, nourish and fuel you. One of the other things that somebody has asked, and in fact they've asked several times about, yes, you're that small and yes, you wanna offer everything when within that college, but what about the rest of campus?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And just like your house, [00:30:00] I tell 'em the rest of campus is the rest of campus. Mm-hmm. You have access to use the living room. Mm-hmm. You have access to use the yard if you still want to, but at this particular time, as you're engaged in education, those are extra. So if you think of Maslow's hierarchy of Needs, the location is your immediate bread and butter, everyday need.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: You'll get to self-actualization and join the music club and dance club and intramurals. You'll do all of those, but it's important to make sure that the base of that work. Maslow's hierarchy of need is taken care of so they can self-actualize. 

Sarah Hempstead: Yeah. A space where you feel like you belong, you're known, you belong, you are comfortable.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And even that, right, the word belong and belonging, people always think it's this big thing, but belonging is a feeling, right? You have to feel that they have intentionally thought about you if you are a disabled student, did they think about [00:31:00] how wide the door is supposed to be? Is there one chair removed from that table where you know, you can just pull up with your wheelchair?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: There's some sense of intentionality that comes with belonging, and that's what we've thought through with the space, especially the space that you've helped us curate and, uh, maximize in a way that from the moment you walk in, in fact, before walking in, like we have a sidewalk. And I know people think it's where she's talking about a sidewalk, but.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: The sidewalk is like a yellow brick road. From the moment you park in the parking lot, you know where to go. Right. You've taken out the worry about where am I going? Where's the front door? How should I enter intentionality? Makes a key, a key row. Yeah. 

Sarah Hempstead: So I've heard you talk about colleges more than a degree.

Sarah Hempstead: Yes, it is. It's about civic, mindfulness giving back. Mm-hmm. It's about persistence. Yeah. What's that look like in action?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: In 1917, there [00:32:00] was a a book that I write about Ab Bud and Breckenridge, and it just talked about what was going on at that time, and that's 1917. And then Levine in 1972 talked about how are we preparing students for the world or for the country or for the state. They talked about the importance of the driver's license.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: The importance then of writing the test for the driver's license. What's the common language that we should use? What are the common tenants that must be on that task? Who are we doing it for? Is it the safety of that one individual or the safety of everybody riding or driving on that road? And that's the image I have when I think about college, not just being about access.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Mm-hmm. And not just a degree. When we have an educated populace, we [00:33:00] are more critical in how we see the world. We have then been exposed to others beyond ourselves. We've been in spaces where we've had to share space. So we think about others, we can problem solve together. We can do so much more just by being exposed to what college education.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: That college education then prepares us for citizenry. It prepares us to live together. It prepares us to come up with rules of law that govern us and why, why we should think about good and bad, um, good and evil. Why we should think about disabled or, or differently abled. It thinks about how we write policies and laws that others can interpret, right?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: A college education is not the degree. It is about the experience at the mind [00:34:00] that cognitive process goes through and how we live through those cognitive decisions. The result of that is civic mindedness. Mm-hmm. We are thinking about others before we think about ourselves because we have been nourished by an education.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I get paid to think as an educator. I get paid to think about others. I get paid to craft language and information in a way so others can learn. Not everybody gets that luxury. A blue color worker may simply show up and go to work, whether that's machinery, they may go through that assembly line, but they are believing that somebody who had some education more than them have thought about them, thought about their safety, thought about what should go in it, and training those in the assembly line and the products that will come out.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Right. There's a lot that goes into that, and we don't often talk about that as the value add [00:35:00] for higher ed. We talk about the degree and we talk about the job, but not the muddy middle that makes up the nucleus of that work. 

Sarah Hempstead: You sound like you're talking about servant leadership, which normally we talk about in a religious context, but this is, I mean, you're talking about it in an educational one.

Sarah Hempstead: Mm-hmm. That that really liberal arts education. Helps us put thoughtfulness to what servant leadership is. Mm-hmm. And why, why we should care about Yeah. About those things. 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Agreed. And servant leader leadership in itself has evolved over time, and I know some suggest that we don't go along that path, but I think for, for us as, as humans and the work that you guys stand for when you work for others, uh, and I come from a Jesuit education and, and our motto was men and women.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: For others, it's ingrained in how we think. There's, uh, Herbert Mead, at least the one of the books that I'm reading right now, Herbert made [00:36:00] his protege. David Miller wrote a book of some of his works. There was a statement in there that talks a lot about if you want change to occur, you can't only think about the afterthought on it.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: It's, it's almost, and it's one that others have used as well, that it's about a thought, not an afterthought. And that's what I truly believe servant leadership is in its cognitive thinking. It means that we have a thought about doing this thing together. It's not an afterthought. It's not an after the fact type of process.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: We are going into it eyes wide open saying We will do this together. This will be better together. And that's the work that we do. That's 

Sarah Hempstead: beautiful. So for young leaders, especially those who might not see themselves represented in their current leadership, what's one thing that you want them to know? Oh, 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: [00:37:00] wow.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: There's a statement my mom used to say, and it's about a closed mouth never gets fed

Dean Gentle-Genitty: and. That's the phrase that's coming in my head because I grew up always talkative. Sometimes I got slapped, like, okay, be quiet, right? Just don't, don't do that. Don't say that. Be quiet at this point. But I think I have been able to succeed because I speak up when I need to speak up. I show up in spaces where other people need to be, but they're not, and I speak up for them.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And so I think as a young leader to any person who sees themselves in a position of wanting to solve problems for themselves or for others, it's about speaking up. Nobody will know that you have a problem. It's one that I joke about and blaze all [00:38:00] the time. Uh, the politician doesn't drive on the pothole streets.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Right. So they don't know that the potholes need to be fixed or that they've gotten bigger, or there's a river there now. So you have to be the one that speaks up. If you are experiencing that pain point, it's very likely somebody else is. And if you happen to be at the table where you do have a microphone like you and I today, we can speak up about those things.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: We don't have to know the answers, we don't have to fix all of it, but we need to be in a position where somebody else hears that somebody else needs help, and that we're then willing to work together to find solutions to it. Yeah. Closed mouth doesn't get fed. Correct? 

Sarah Hempstead: I I'm, I'm shocked to hear that you were a talkative young person.

Sarah Hempstead: Shocked. Just shocked. Utterly. So I'm, I'm gonna ask you a question that there's not a good answer for sure. But everybody asks me all the time, so I'm just asking all of my wise friends, Ooh, I got a wise title too. Balance. Balance is always the question. Um, [00:39:00] you say yes to a lot of things I do. You're interested in a lot of things.

Sarah Hempstead: Um, how do you, how do you try to manage, how do you try to stay grounded and, and keep some 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: degree of balance? It's one I have to think about, not because I don't know the answer, but I need to make sure it comes across polished. I've been married now almost, what, 24, going on 25 years. Uh, and my husband, Keith will say the answer is sleep.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: 'cause I enjoy sleeping. I reward myself with sleep, whether it's five minutes, 10 minutes, or half a day. I enjoy sleep. But my son will talk about how creative I am and I remember growing up, he always wanted to create something and we would always be sewing or stitching or just putting things together because he's always had a creative side of his mind.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: [00:40:00] But I think for me it's been about. Finding what fuels my passion, not necessarily what gives me rest. And that's where I think I'm different from a lot of individuals that are normally around me and they'll go, you take on a lot. But what they don't recognize is I segment where I get my joy, so I'll be able to do founders and create and work a mile a minute and excel with that with my team.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: But when I'm done with that, I need to nurture the cognitive side of my brain. So I'll do a massive amount of research and I'll write and I'll read and I'll, you know, be able to put out papers and research because it gives me another sense of urgency. Mm-hmm. But it also helps me be grounded in why I do what I do.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So when I show up for founders, I am not worried about my [00:41:00] why I am not lost in my purpose. I'm grounded in the work. So it's, I think it's about recognizing the lanes that you really need to nurture yourself mm-hmm. While being cognizant of why you do the work. So there's never a question about why I show up and why I will work until midnight or longer, or why I would get up at four in the morning to make sure I could do it all.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Or why you would take a little nap if you need one. Correct. That's right. Yeah. Because when I get up at four, I mean, I'm, I'm doing prayers very early. I'll fit in a little bit of exercise and then I take the portion of the day. That's just for me, where it's my thoughts, my vision, and then maybe around eight o'clock, then somebody else is managing my schedule and Sarah, my assistant, will say, Caroline, you need to be here.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: You need to be here. Right. It's, it's that, and then in the evenings I will [00:42:00] then go home and. Be a wife and be a mom. And Saturdays, my son, my husband controls my entire Saturday. Yeah. I have no power on Saturday, so if I sign up for something, I have to ask my husband for permission on Saturday and on Sundays it's family day, so I'll call my family and we'll engage.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: That's awesome. Divide and conquer. I think that's right. Okay. Well, I always end with this. What are you reading right now? Or what's a book that you would recommend that everybody reads? I'm not far in it. I skimmed it and I have it near my bed and it's planned to be read. It's the one by David Yeager, he 10 to 25.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I've done the little podcast. I've sat in a session where he's talking about it. I've skinned through the table of content. I've read chapter one, but it's one that I think I would encourage people to read, not because it's any better than any other book that they're [00:43:00] reading. But for the first time, you have a researcher not talking about outcomes that are now most individuals talk about, oh, you know, if they did this 10 years ago, they would've been different if they did.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: He is looking at what happens between the age of 10 and 25, and the most important role of having a mentor mindset where you're showing up in that space like my mentor did for me. Sure. Right. And she pushed me and say, follow the directions, which is why I write good policies now. Right. I follow the directions I'm clear of.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Sometimes it's a good conversation between you and I, but there are times that the conversation is hinged on an and versus an or. How much power do I want to give you? Sure. And if it's a lot of power, I'll give you an or. Mm-hmm. Uh, if it's an, and I'll give you a choice between [00:44:00] one or the other. Right.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: It's just add and I think embracing a mentor mindset in this current world that we live in is important, but oftentimes we do it when it's too late. We think it's that 21 and older, but a 10 year old's brain is so advanced and developed informing the individual that we want. So we must show up early for kids and for those in school.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: It's the reason why I do a summer camp in Belize every summer for kids that are seven to 11, because developmentally that's the stage where there's a switch that happens for their success. And oftentimes as parents, as community members, we're absent in that stage because it's difficult. Mm-hmm. That's a great 

Sarah Hempstead: answer.

Sarah Hempstead: Thank you so much for sharing your story, for your leadership, for your Vision. Founders College is a lot more than a program. It's a, it's a movement and so needed here in central Indiana, and it's been an honor to help you bring that vision to life. And to our [00:45:00] listeners, thank you so much for joining us.

Sarah Hempstead: Uh, be sure to subscribe to Illuminate navigating the Unknown through creative leadership and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at Schmid Associates. And until next time, keep navigating the unknown with creativity and confidence. Welcome to Luminate, navigating the Unknown Through Creative Leadership.

Sarah Hempstead: I'm Sarah Hempstead, CEO, and principal in charge at Schmid Associates. And today's guest brings both lived experience and visionary leadership to higher education. Dr. Carolyn Gentle Genty is the inaugural Dean of the Founder's College at Butler University. A bold new initiative designed around access, equity, and purpose driven degrees for historically underserved students.

Sarah Hempstead: A scholar, a social worker, and an academic leader. She spent more than 25 years championing systematic change from reshaping academic policy at Indiana University to launching a college built to serve students who need it most raised and Belize by a family rooted in service [00:46:00] and education. She brings passion and purpose to every role.

Sarah Hempstead: Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I'm so glad to have you here. You are the oldest of five children. I am the oldest of four. Ah, let's start there. How did that role start 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: to shape your leadership style? An interesting question, not because of the way it was formulated, but the, the way I may choose to respond.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Most times it's only after the fact that you realize you've done something great, you've formed values or you've done right. It's so sort of looking back. In reality, that wasn't quite the case for me. I had to live it while being in it. So yes, I'm the eldest, but we're literally maybe nine months to a year apart.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Mm-hmm. So it was a matter of instantaneously jumping into that role and living that role my entire life. [00:47:00] All five of you. All five of us. So very early on, I, I had to take on the role of taking care of brothers and sisters in the home, from feeding to baiting, to educating, to later on helping with homework, going to pick up the report cards.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So my life has, again, from birth, essentially has been taking care of others. And that's the value that I bring to who I am today. I think about others in decisions that I make. I think about others in the decisions I don't make. As well as how I want to show up in a space, because being the eldest means you are a role model, not often by joys, but your role model.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And I can remember very clearly there was a a time I enjoyed reading. I enjoyed books. Playing outside was not something that I enjoyed as much, but I had to because of brothers and sisters. So we would take [00:48:00] them out so they could run. Then I'll have time to read. But I remember going to pick up the report card for my, uh, youngest sister and going, she goes like, I don't want you to go.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Like, why? Like, I would be better than mom. She says, no, you asked too many questions. You're, you're too much like my parent. And it was at that time that I realized that though I was not the parent, I role modeled the expectations of working hard, giving things your best. Oftentimes my brothers and sisters view that not as a sister, but as a parent.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And those are things that I still pay attention to Now as a leader and getting watched, 

Sarah Hempstead: whether you knew you were or 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: not, right? Correct. At all times. Correct. 

Sarah Hempstead: Well, and you grew up in Belize as well, so what was different about, um, leadership style and learning there then? Then pair? 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Whew. I've never had that [00:49:00] question asked.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I think for me, leadership in Belize has a lot to do with your appearance and the expectation of the community within which you thrive, not necessarily live. So for instance, yes, I'm originally from Belize, but my parents are from cao, sort of the middle area of Belize. There's a lot of fruit, trees and vegetables, and so you go out and you get.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I remember getting oranges off the tree. I remember picking avocado off the tree. I remember going for water. Right? So there, there's a, a different type of leading by the activities that you engage in every day. Sure. But I also remember being in primary school and because I, I am five, five some days and most days five, four and a half.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: But I was this height from the moment I was in primary school. So I would be behind the line and I would then be as tall as the [00:50:00] boys. As a result of that. On Fridays, I had my, my fights as a bully. So I had these two juxtaposition of sort of growing up. So then as a leader, I think if I look back, I could remember making good choices and bad choices.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: In Belize. I had more of a freedom to do that because of choices that I made, like going and eating healthy stuff, getting it off the tree, exercising outside, being engaged with community, volunteering, but also the bad decisions by, okay, because I am this high, I can bully you or wrong and I can do this.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And recognizing that there had to be a balance in that. So I think that's one that I may take away. I don't know if others get the same experience here in the us, but it's one that I remember from Belize. Uh, a little bit of freedom gives you, uh, the opportunity to learn from bad choices as 

Sarah Hempstead: well as good one.

Sarah Hempstead: Correct. So when you were, uh, when you were in primary school, did you know you [00:51:00] wanted to go into education? Was that something that, that came to you easily and early or was it a I know I wanted to be in charge. Okay. That checks out. That makes sense Fully you. 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: But what I did not know, I ran, uh, very early on, I was engaged in youth work.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I had my first youth group around the age of nine or 10, just again because I had brothers and sisters and I was used to sort of hurting them along to do some positive activity. So I thought it was gonna be in youth work. So I became a youth counselor very early, worked with gang and gang development and, and did youth counseling, moved into the ambassador realm for the country.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So doing that, um, through UNICEF as well as Caricom very early. But most times I found myself trying to explain complex jargon or work in layman's terms. And as a result, somebody would say, well, why [00:52:00] don't you teach that to so and so? Why don't you teach that to so and so? So I gradually moved into that teaching realm and I enjoyed it because it allowed me to be both creative again, just sure my leadership, right?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So allowing me to be creative with some structure, but still being myself, sort of that, that lead you to the YMCA, is that the start of an formal kind of teaching role? I wish that were the answer. Uh, but no, I went, I did my bachelor's and masters in Louisville, Kentucky. I had fun doing that was a rat queen while in Kentucky, as you know, they race horses.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Mm-hmm. Uh, within the university we were racing rats outta the la the lab. 

Sarah Hempstead: You were a rat queen. Yes. Okay. We're gonna need to stop all the stories there. What is a rat queen? Tell me more. A rat queen. You, it's a fundraising 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: endeavor, and so you must go out, work with the community, raise uh, dollars, and then you, whoever wins, gets to race the rat [00:53:00] almost like a millionaire.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Yeah. And you would have a rat in the race and, and you would go through Anyway, it was a long story, but it was fun. Right. So it's, it's one of those things where I had that experience, but at the same time as I tried to figure out what I wanted to do, it still didn't come to me. I studied social work. I enjoyed social work.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I didn't start off, I wanted to be a, a lawyer. Conversation has it that I talked with a couple people and it was more about studying what happened in the past and not what happens in the future or what's happening now. If I switched to, so to psychology and I thought, oh, this is purely about fixing people, that was not my wish.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Landed in social work very quickly and, but when I finished and I decided to go back to Belize, there was not a role called social work. Okay. I had to figure out where I would land. I reached out to a couple colleagues. They indicated that they were [00:54:00] looking for an executive director of the YMC of Belize.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: At this point, the position would run programs across the entire country and not just in Belize City. Wow. And I thought, okay, I will put in my application and see what happened. And I eventually landed that position and ran that for about five years. It's a pretty, that's a pretty broad impact. It was. It was.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: We did a whole bunch of creative programs within. Some good liens. So what was it that made you leave that role and come back to the states service? I spent, when I got there, there was a need for a lot. So yes, I was the executive director of the social work program of the, not the social of the YMCA, but the University of Belize had just launched or was almost in the process of launching an associate degree for social work.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And they needed more individuals to, to train or help with that. Sure. So I spent some time then helping them to [00:55:00] build that curriculum for an associate's degree program. The government then required every human service professional across the entire country, had to go back to complete this associate's degree.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So then my scope of teaching expanded from teaching one or two courses to. Being a part of that curriculum. So these are individuals 2, 3, 4 times my age. Sure. At that time, at that time I was 23, uh, helping with this program and teaching, and once we got it off the ground, I built some good relationships.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: We agreed then that it was probably time to launch a bachelor's degree program, so I helped to launch the bachelor's degree program at that time while still running the YMCA, using it as an internship site as well, writing some grants with organization of American States to work on workplace development and workplace, workplace preparedness, getting family members engaged to help their students who were struggling.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: We also then launched a. [00:56:00] Primary school at the YMCA for boys who got caught up in violence or other and were kicked out of other school systems. 

Sarah Hempstead: Sure. 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So I served in as the alternative, uh, principal. As the principal for the alternative school. 'cause you needed a third job or so for three, four. How many there yet now?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I know, but it was, it was just so much fun and we, we just did a lot of things at that time. So my scope just sort of grew and then the interest in, in education at that point just grew further from there. Yeah. Well, it sounds like you were highly involved 

Sarah Hempstead: with education already at that point. I 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: was, but then not everybody was interested.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Right. So I also had a youth talk show. It was called Riveting Vibe, straight off your As Bull. Right. It was just this process of helping people to understand that the core of what we do in life is about relationships. It was just, it just started off by talking about young people and their relationships, and we had a, it was every Saturday morning, and we had adults who were calling in about marriage and marriage [00:57:00] counseling.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So I eventually became a marriage counselor just to help guide through that, those challenges that they were experiencing. So it was just, I had fun. 

Sarah Hempstead: The riveting vibes have like a opening theme song. Can we find it online? I wish you could. I don't 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: even remember it, but we did have a theme song. Yeah. I don't 

Sarah Hempstead: remember.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I gotta go look for 

Sarah Hempstead: it. All right. This is gonna be my YouTube quest tonight. Have to find the riveting vibe theme song. All right, so you're, you're running the school, you've got a show, you're running the YMCA over the whole country. You're starting these new programs. That's a lot. Yeah. What, what called you to make 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: a change?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: What called you to leave? There were a lot of changes occurring in Belize at that time. Mm-hmm. Most of the individuals they were hiring to make those changes were foreigners. 

Sarah Hempstead: Okay? 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: They would get someone with a PhD who would come to the country for two weeks. They would do all these [00:58:00] listening tours and engagement, and they'll write up a really good report and we would be happy, and they'll give it to the government.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Then when they leave, the government will say, we now need to figure out who will implement these. I found myself in a lot of those implementation conversations, mapping data, coming up with outcomes, meeting with the community, launching programs, designing initiatives, and at that point, I'll put a pin right there before leaving Spalding University with my master's degree.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I took the GRE and I told myself that the GRE was, because it was good for five years, I will go back for a PhD within five years. So engaged in these conversations because it kept coming up over and over and over. I then realized it was time to go for the PhD. I reached out to a [00:59:00] faculty member who I had a love-hate relationship, but she gave me my first C when I moved over to, huh.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: But at that time, she just said, you know, you're getting the C, not because you're not smart enough that she gave an assignment and the assignment was to write something for, but it had to be three pages, and I thought I needed five pages to do it, and she only graded the first three pages, so I did not get a good score.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Mm-hmm. When I met with her, she just said, sometimes you need broad shoulders, but you gotta follow the directions. It's good advice. It was very good advice. Not one that I wanted at that time, but it was very good advice. Eventually then when it was time to go back, coming back to the pin, I reached out to her and I said, I am thinking of doing this.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And she goes, by golly, you should, but I am no longer in Kentucky. [01:00:00] I am at Indiana University and I think that's where you should apply. And that's the only time I will give you a letter of recommendation. She was bold, uh, and I love her to debt for it. She did. I applied, I got in, I got a full scholarship to spald it to Indiana University to do my PhD.

Sarah Hempstead: I love that story. And one of the things I love about it is it's not often you get a mentorship story that that starts with a little bit of conflict. But that's, this can be some of the very best mentors is somebody who pushes you so hard that it hurts for a minute. Yeah. 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And that's what she did. And all the way up, she helped to hood me.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: She did a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah, that's awesome. Even for my son, she knitted his first hat. Yeah, it was, it was good. All right. So you end up in Bloomington. 

Sarah Hempstead: You've 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: worked really hard and now you start working for Indiana University because I taught, before coming, I didn't wanna just be a student. Sure.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So when I [01:01:00] came, I lived downtown Indianapolis in one of the apartments beside the Ronald McDonald House. So that was my first initiative. I thought that if we were that close, we needed to do something there. So I started, I started a doctoral student association where we would give back to the community.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So our first event and our regular uh, activity was with the Ronald McDonald House. Through that process, I met some faculty members that were really engaged, again, the tough ones. And one of 'em had a faculty member in the School of Public and Environmental Affairs, and that faculty member was going on maternity leave and asked this other faculty member whether or not he knew of the student who would be willing to teach her class.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And without a doubt, he recommended me to this colleague. And I said, but I haven't taught yet at this university. I don't know. Uh, he goes, you got this. [01:02:00] So I spent some time reviewing. I eventually took over this course three weeks in, they brought a dean or associate dean of the program to come and pay attention or shadow, whatever word you want to use.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Sure. What I was teaching that day, I didn't know. I just knew somebody was coming. I didn't know what they looked like. I got in a class, I taught my stuff. She came out afterwards and said, oh, I'm the person that's evaluating your program, and she said, for a minute there, I thought you were a seasoned professor.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And she gave me the best evaluation ever. I then got about, gosh, every semester, at least two or three courses to teach in that program while doing my PhD. Excellent. Then my dean said, why are you doing all your teaching in SPE A instead of in social work? Isn't that your major? That's valid point. Very valid.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So I got then a couple [01:03:00] teaching opportunities within the school of social work. I then went through a little tug of war. Some wanted me in the master's, some wanted me in the undergrad. So I did two courses in both while doing the PhD, and so by the time I got there finishing my PhD, the dean said, there's no way I am gonna let you go.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: We have to figure out something for you. And I'm like, I still wanna go back home to Belize. And so I went home, that's Christmas and there was an election. And when I went home, because of the election, if you understand Belize's politics, about 70% of the population is employed by the government. So if there's an election, that means there's an overturning off people, especially if it's a new guard that comes into power.

Sarah Hempstead: Interesting. 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So I thought that's probably not the best environment to put myself in. If an election is gonna come up in March. Mm-hmm. It means that I may have a job only for two to three months and I may then have to choose another. So I went back and I told them, you know, I don't mind [01:04:00] exploring. I moved into a.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Visiting professor position. Mm-hmm. Uh, visiting assistant professor position for one year, but before the year was finished, I think by February, this is November. By February, he had figured out an opportunity for me to move into a full-time position. He moved into an assistant professor position and moved all the way up to a full tenured professor.

Sarah Hempstead: And so some people would be happy with that, and they would be tenured professors, and they would, they would ride that out for 40 years. And that is, that is wonderful and noble. But you thought a little bigger than that, right? I mean, you, I thought access and innovation is, I know one of your passions and you flipped.

Sarah Hempstead: Not flipped, yeah. You started to include in your journey Yeah. Systematic change to get more learners in the university. Talk. Talk about that. Where'd that compassion come from and how did you start to do that? 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: It actually began from home, right? I always had to think of not just [01:05:00] myself and others. I remember when I got accepted to St.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Catherine's Academ, it's an all girls Catholic, almost private type high school, and the first thing after getting admitted was, how can I make sure my sister also has that same access? Remember, we're one after the other, so it was me and then my sister. And so that's the same thing that happened as I moved through the journey.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: It was not just about me, it was also about others. When I was, I just got tenured, so moving from assistant to associate, there was a transition in the executive director role for social work and that it was an interesting role. The dean said, you know, I really would like you to step into this role as an interim to hold over.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: You don't have to do all the campuses. Only Indianapolis manage the undergraduate program there. And I said, I don't mind doing that, but don't give up my office [01:06:00] because I'll be back within a year. Within six months he gave up my office. I'm like, and so I'm like, okay, does that mean I'm moving from interim into this role full time?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Uh, we went through a process that he said, sure. I moved into then managing the entire Indianapolis campus for social work program. And again, the issue was, or the concern was still there, that we can advance and expand. So at that time we were catering to maybe about 9 80, 9 90 students, and I had a vision of bringing that out to at least 250 students in the enrollment.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Mm-hmm. So I spent some time looking across the curriculum, recognizing that a student can start in an evening program, but their entire. Curriculum was not mapped all the way. So then I tried to build that out so that a student could do an entire degree in the evening. I did another where all the students can do a fully online degree if they wanted one, where they could do in their [01:07:00] entire degree.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: On the weekends. We grew to 250. We hired some extra staff, did really, really well. So that experience. Then the chancellor on the IUPY campus at that time said he wanted to create an online fellowship because he wanted to figure out how to offer online degrees for the entire IUPY campus. And I was tagged as that person to take on that inaugural fellowship.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I did 50% in social work and 50% in his office. And he said, I'll give you a year. And I said, what if I figure it out early? What do I do with the rest of my time? He just said, well, you do whatever you want with the rest of your time. And I'm like, okay, you got a deal. So I used my social work skills and did some fact finding some evaluation.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Social work is a feel where you pay attention [01:08:00] to stimuli, pattern and behavior. If something's not working quite well, you have to adjust one of those, whether it was a stimuli, the disrupt the pattern or change the behavior. So I used that same process to examine what was happening with online education on the campus and found that the bottleneck was English and math when working with the state require that you be able to offer the entire general education core online before you can expand into a degree.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So that's how I sort of. Did a backward design, worked with the English department. They were ready. They had a couple kinks that we needed to work out. We worked that out maybe within two and a half months. Well, math, it's a little bit more tricky. They didn't wanna change what they were doing. They were worried about proctoring and engagement and whether or not students are really taking the task.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So I said, are these the three things then that you think? And they're like, if you could fix that, great. So [01:09:00] I said, okay, you continue to have your meeting with your faculty. As soon as you think you're ready to have that conversation with me, I'll drop everything I'm doing and I'm gonna come over to your school and we'll fix that.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Mm-hmm. In the meantime, I did research on proctoring and all the other, got my colleagues ready, got the vendors ready, and just about maybe mid-September, I got this call while I was in another meeting and said, we're in a faculty meeting right now and they wanna know about these options. I'm like, okay, gimme 30 minutes.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I dropped everything, called my colleagues. Got them ready on Zoom, ran over to the space As they were asking questions, I had my team ready to respond to them. By November, we were done math, agreed to do a pilot. English was on board P, and so by literally like December one, I said, here's your deliverable.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Then I had fun for the remainder of the time, talking with different [01:10:00] units, exploring different creative processes, joining a lot of strategic planning. So all of that then brought me to where I moved into an assistant vice president for university academic policy role, another inaugural role, and that was the university saying we're across seven campuses to co-location and fully online.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: We don't have anybody that manages all the academic policies and we need somebody to be able to do that. We're thinking of inaugurating this new position. Would you be interested, I love 

Sarah Hempstead: this, I love the story of building, building consensus in the deep dive and finding the problems with the people who were dealing with it.

Sarah Hempstead: 'cause it's almost the exact opposite of what you said was happening in Belize with an expert who would fly in for two weeks and then write a report and then bounce. Um, you did the exact opposite. 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: You are absolutely correct. Huh? Learning but it builds relationships. [01:11:00] Absolutely. It's ownership before the end.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Yeah. 

Sarah Hempstead: And buy-in to the solution. Mm-hmm. And then you did what you said you would do, which was drop everything. And, and, 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: and that was the best experience. We then built almost 30 online degrees for that campus. And for iu, we then worked through building almost 1,200 degrees building, merging, sunsetting.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Yeah. 

Sarah Hempstead: And you know, 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: now 

Sarah Hempstead: almost every campus has some version of online degrees. Correct. But um, but then it was changed the game It has. That's amazing. And we'll continue to do so, but continue to. Yeah. So now you've taken all of those learnings and you're channeling it into the founder's college Yeah.

Sarah Hempstead: Switch, which is a totally new initiative. So first of a kind model. So for those who have never heard of it, can you take a minute to explain 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: what Founders' College is and how it is set apart from anything like it? Wow. And I know it's based on the Come to Believe model, so some [01:12:00] who may, Google, may, may find that there's at least three others within that, that window.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: But the first of its kind here in Indy, it is a two year. Interdisciplinary non-residential model for students from high ability and low wealth who see themselves going to college. That's the simplistic model. When you ask what we do and what we stand for, I believe it's about removing the randomness of student success.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And by that I mean think of your own experience, whether it's elementary school, all the way up to post grad. When you struggle in finding anything, whenever there is a pain point, you don't search out that thing as often. Whether that's parking, whether that's finding your advisor, whether that's buying your books, whether that's finding a good supportive instructor.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: The intentionality [01:13:00] is important Then in design. For founders college, we are making sure that anything, or any pain point that we already know about, I mean, higher ed has been around for centuries. Mm-hmm. Right. If it's been around that long, there are pain points that we know exist. Mm-hmm. And if so, we want to remove them before it becomes a friction point.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Uh, which is why space is a factor. Location is a factor. Uh, the people who show up is a factor, and cost is also a factor. Absolutely. 

Sarah Hempstead: So you talked about space. So how does physical space play a role in fostering student success, particularly for, particularly for this group of students? 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Yeah, and it should be for everybody.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: It's like your office space, right? It's like your home. When you think about space, the visual I normally give an individual is, imagine you are in your bedroom and you are sick, you're lying down. You want things that are a little bit more [01:14:00] comfortable. Easy to access and the support that you believe will help you.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Mm-hmm. So whether that's calling for somebody, so you wanna make sure somebody's home and can hear you, whether that's grabbing a bottle of water that's near the bed, right? You want things that are close by. And with the mall that we've built for founders, it's almost like that. It's a small space where the classrooms are there.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Uh, think of the old Cheers process. Everybody knows your name, right? So there's a front door and a back door and in sort of coming in, but all of your supports are right there. Student services, financial aid services, career services, the social worker, the admission staff, the counselor, everybody in the same space.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And then you need to nurture yourself, right? So there is a small social hub that allows you to get whatever it is that you believe will, uh, nourish and fuel you. One of the [01:15:00] other things that somebody has asked, and in fact they've asked several times about, yes, you're that small and yes, you wanna offer everything when within that college, but what about the rest of campus?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And just like your house, I tell 'em the rest of campus is the rest of campus. Mm-hmm. You have access to use the living room. Mm-hmm. You have access to use the yard if you don't want to, but at this particular time, as you're engaged in education, those are extras. So if you think of Maslow's hierarchy of Needs, the location is your immediate bread and butter, everyday need.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: You'll get to self-actualization and join the music club and dance club and intramurals. You'll do all of those, but it's important to make sure that the base of that work. Maslow's hierarchy of need is taken care of so they can self-actualize. 

Sarah Hempstead: Yeah. A space where you feel like you belong, you're known, you belong, you are comfortable.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: And even [01:16:00] that, right, the word belong and belonging, people always think it's this big thing, but belonging is a feeling, right? You have to feel that they have intentionally thought about you if you are a disabled student, did they think about how wide the door is supposed to be? Is there one chair removed from that table where you know, you can just pull up with your wheelchair?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: There's some sense of intentionality that comes with belonging, and that's what we've thought through with the space, especially the space that you've helped us curate and, uh, maximize in a way that from the moment you walk in, in fact, before walking in, like we have a sidewalk. And I know people think it's where she's talking about a sidewalk, but.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: The sidewalk is like a yellow brick road. From the moment you park in the parking lot, you know where to go. Right. You've taken out the worry about where am I going? Where's the front door? How should I enter intentionality? Makes a key, a key row. Yeah. [01:17:00] 

Sarah Hempstead: So I've heard you talk about colleges more than a degree.

Sarah Hempstead: Yes, it is. It's about civic, mindfulness giving back. Mm-hmm. It's about persistence. Yeah. What's that look like in action?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: In 1917, there was a a book that I write about Ab Bud and Breckenridge, and it just talked about what was going on at that time, and that's 1917. And then Levine in 1972 talked about how are we preparing students for the world or for the country or for the state. They talked about the importance of the driver's license.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: The importance then of writing the test for the driver's license. What's the common language that we should use? What are the common tenants that must be on that task? Who are we doing it for? Is it the safety of that one individual or the safety of everybody riding or [01:18:00] driving on that road? And that's the image I have when I think about college, not just being about access.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Mm-hmm. And not just a degree. When we have an educated populace, we are more critical in how we see the world. We have then been exposed to others beyond ourselves. We've been in spaces where we've had to share space. So we think about others, we can problem solve together. We can do so much more just by being exposed to a college education.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: That college education then prepares us for citizenry. It prepares us to live together. It prepares us to come up with rules of law that govern us and why, why we should think about good and bad, um, good and evil. Why we should think [01:19:00] about disabled or, or differently abled. It thinks about how we write policies and laws that others can interpret, right?

Dean Gentle-Genitty: A college education is not the degree. It is about the experience at the mind that cognitive process goes through and how we live through those cognitive decisions. The result of that is civic mindedness. Mm-hmm. We are thinking about others before we think about ourselves because we have been nourished by an education.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I get paid to think as an educator. I get paid to think about others. I get paid to craft language and information in a way so others can learn. Not everybody gets that luxury. A blue color worker may simply show up and go to work, whether that's machinery, they may go through that assembly line, but they are believing that somebody who had some education more than [01:20:00] them have thought about them, thought about their safety, thought about what should go in it, and training those in the assembly line and the products that will come out.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Right. There's a lot that goes into that, and we don't often talk about that as the value add for higher ed. We talk about the degree and we talk about the job, but not the muddy middle that makes up the nucleus of that work. 

Sarah Hempstead: You sound like you're talking about servant leadership, which normally we talk about in a religious context, but this is, I mean, you're talking about it in an educational one.

Sarah Hempstead: Mm-hmm. That that really liberal arts education. Helps us put thoughtfulness to what servant leadership is. Mm-hmm. And why, why we should care about Yeah. About those things. 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Agreed. And servant leader leadership in itself has evolved over time, and I know some suggest that we don't go along that path, but I think for, for us as, as humans and the work that you guys stand for when you work for others, uh, and [01:21:00] I come from a Jesuit education and, and our motto was men and women.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: For others, it's ingrained in how we think. There's, uh, Herbert Mead, at least the one of the books that I'm reading right now, Herbert made his protege. David Miller wrote a book of some of his works. There was a statement in there that talks a lot about if you want change to occur, you can't only think about the afterthought on it.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: It's, it's almost, and it's one that others have used as well, that it's about a thought, not an afterthought. And that's what I truly believe servant leadership is in its cognitive thinking. It means that we have a thought about doing this thing together. It's not an afterthought. It's not an after the fact type of process.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: We are going into it eyes wide open saying We will do this together. [01:22:00] This will be better together. And that's the work that we do. That's beautiful. 

Sarah Hempstead: So for young leaders, especially those who might not see themselves represented in their current leadership, what's one thing that you want them to know? Oh, 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: wow.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: There's a statement my mom used to say, and it's about a closed mouth never gets fed and. That's the phrase that's coming in my head because I grew up always talkative. Sometimes I got slapped, like, okay, be quiet, right? Just don't, don't do that. Don't say that. Be quiet at this point. But I think I have been able to succeed because I speak up when I need to speak up.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: I show up in spaces where other people need to be, but they're not, and I speak up for them. And so I think as a young leader to [01:23:00] any person who sees themselves in a position of wanting to solve problems for themselves or for others, it's about speaking up. Nobody will know that you have a problem. It's one that I joke about and blaze all the time.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Uh, the politician doesn't drive on the pothole streets. Right. So they don't know that the potholes need to be fixed or that they've gotten bigger, or is a river there now. So you have to be the one that speaks up. If you are experiencing that pain point, it's very likely somebody else is. And if you happen to be at the table where you do have a microphone like you and I today, we can speak up about those things.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: We don't have to know the answers, we don't have to fix all of it, but we need to be in a position where somebody else hears that somebody else needs help, and that we're then willing to work together to find solutions to it. Yeah. Closed mouth doesn't get fed. Correct? 

Sarah Hempstead: I I'm, I'm shocked [01:24:00] to hear that you were a talkative young person.

Sarah Hempstead: Shocked. Just shocked. Utterly. So I'm, I'm gonna ask you a question that there's not a good answer for sure. But everybody asks me all the time, so I'm just asking all of my wise friends, oh, I got a wise title too. Balance. Balance is always the question. Um, you say yes to a lot of things I do. You're interested in a lot of things.

Sarah Hempstead: Um, how do you, how do you try to manage, how do you try to stay grounded and, 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: and keep some degree of balance? It's one I have to think about, not because I don't know the answer, but I need to make sure it comes across polished. I've been married now almost, what, 24, going on 25 years. Uh, and my husband, Keith will say the answer is sleep.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: 'cause I enjoy sleeping. I reward myself with sleep, whether it's five minutes, 10 minutes, or half a day. I enjoy sleep. But my son will talk about how creative I [01:25:00] am and I remember growing up, he always wanted to create something and we would always be sewing or stitching or just putting things together because he's always had a creative side of his mind.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: But I think for me it's been about. Finding what fuels my passion, not necessarily what gives me rest. And that's where I think I'm different from a lot of individuals that are normally around me and they'll go, you take on a lot. But what they don't recognize is I segment where I get my joy, so I'll be able to do founders and create and work a mile a minute and excel with that with my team.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: But when I'm done with that, I need to nurture the cognitive side of my brain. So I'll do a massive amount of research and I'll write and I'll read and I'll, you know, [01:26:00] be able to put out papers and research because it gives me another sense of urgency. Mm-hmm. But it also helps me be grounded in why I do what I do.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: So when I show up for founders, I am not worried about my why I am not lost in my purpose. I'm grounded in the work. So it's, I think it's about recognizing the lanes that you really need to nurture yourself mm-hmm. While being cognizant of why you do the work. So there's never a question about why I show up and why I will work until midnight or longer, or why I would get up at four in the morning to make sure I could do it all.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Or why you would take a little nap if you need one. Correct. That's right. Yeah. Because when I get up at four, I mean, I'm, I'm doing prayers very early. I'll fit in a little bit of exercise and then I take the portion of the day. That's just for me, [01:27:00] where it's my thoughts, my vision, and then maybe around eight o'clock, then somebody else is managing my schedule and Sarah, my assistant, will say, Caroline, you need to be here.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: You need to be here. Right. It's, it's that, and then in the evenings I will then go home and. Be a wife and be a mom. And Saturdays, my son, my husband controls my entire Saturday. Yeah. I have no power on Saturday, so if I sign up for something, I have to ask my husband for permission on Saturday and on Sundays it's family day, so I'll call my family and we'll engage.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: That's awesome. Divide and conquer. I think that's right. Okay. Well, I always end with this. What are you reading right now? Or what's a book that you would recommend that everybody reads? I'm not far in it. I skimmed it and I have it near my bed and it's planned to be read. It's the one by David Yeager, he 10 to 25.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: [01:28:00] I've done the little podcast. I've sat in a session where he's talking about it. I've skinned through the table of content. I've read chapter one, but it's one that I think I would encourage people to read, not because it's any better than any other book that they're reading. But for the first time, you have a researcher not talking about outcomes that are now most individuals talk about, oh, you know, if they did this 10 years ago, they would've been different if they did.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: He is looking at what happens between the age of 10 and 25, and the most important role of having a mentor mindset where you're showing up in that space like my mentor did for me. Sure. Right. And she pushed me and say, follow the directions, which is why I write good policies now. Right. I follow the directions I'm clear of.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Sometimes it's a [01:29:00] good conversation between you and I, but there are times that the conversation is hinged on an and. Mm-hmm. Versus an or. How much power do I want to give you? Sure. And if it's a lot of power, I'll give you an or. 

Sarah Hempstead: Mm-hmm. 

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Uh, if it's an, and I'll give you a choice between one or the other.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: Right. It's just add and I think embracing a mentor mindset in this current world that we live in is important, but oftentimes we do it when it's too late. We think it's that 21 and older, but a 10 year old's brain is so advanced and developed informing the individual that we want. So we must show up early for kids and for those in school.

Dean Gentle-Genitty: It's the reason why I do a summer camp in Belize every summer for kids that are seven to 11, because developmentally that's the stage where there's a switch that happens for their success. And oftentimes as parents, as community members, we're absent in that stage because it's difficult. Mm-hmm. That's a great [01:30:00] answer.

Sarah Hempstead: Thank you so much for sharing your story, for your leadership, for your Vision. Founders College is a lot more than a program. It's a, it's a movement and so needed here in central Indiana, and it's been an honor to help you bring that vision to life. And to our listeners, thank you so much for joining us.

Sarah Hempstead: Be sure to subscribe to Luminate Navigating the Unknown Through Creative Leadership and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn @Schmidt Associates. And until next time, keep navigating the unknown with creativity and confidence.