Foundations + Futures: 2000s with Anna Marie Burrell

In this chapter of Foundations + Futures: By the Decade, we step into the 2000s, a decade reshaped by school security, sustainability and the growing belief that a building could be a tool for wellness, community and change. For Schmidt Associates, it was the era of deepening roots.

Anna Marie Burrell, K-12 studio leader and principal-in-charge, joins host Sarah Hempstead to reflect on more than 21 years of putting community at the center of every school project. Anna Marie came to Schmidt Associates in the early 2000s with architecture already in her bones, and this conversation brings to life the decade when that kind of intentional, people-first design began to define the firm's identity.

Listeners will hear about:

• Plainfield High School and the community task force process that started with a question, not a blueprint
• Decatur Central High School, one of Indiana's first project-based learning environments
• The Vincennes Community School renovation, one of Indiana's first LEED-certified schools
• School security, mental health and wellness and how those conversations took root in this decade
• Schmidt Academy and the firm's formal commitment to lifelong learning
• Wayne Schmidt's servant leadership, seen up close by someone who got to watch it firsthand

For the first time in this series, Sarah isn't just interviewing someone about a decade. She's remembering alongside them. Both joined the firm in the early 2000s, both found something here they weren't expecting, and both will tell you the culture was better than advertised.

This decade was about purpose. About designing not just for today's students, but for the communities they'll grow up to lead. That approach is still how Schmidt Associates operates today.

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Transcript

Sarah Hempstead: [00:00:00] The 2000s were a decade of change in how we thought about security, education, and design. Things got more connected, and we became more intentional about who we were as a firm and who we wanted to be. Welcome back to Foundations and Futures by the Decade. I'm Sarah Hempstead, CEO and principal in charge at Schmidt Associates.

And in this series, we're exploring the story of Schmidt Associates one decade at a time through the people, projects, and values that shape the firm as we celebrate 50 years of Schmidt Associates and honor 100 years of Aerosmith's history. And I've really been looking forward to this episode because this is the decade that I joined Schmidt Associates in the early 2000s.

So for the first time in this series, I'm not just asking someone else to remember, I'm remembering alongside them. Like me, my guest came to Schmidt Associates in the early 2000s and has spent more than 21 years as one of the firm's leaders in one of our most [00:01:00] defining practices. Anna Marie Burrell is a principal and the leader of our K12 studio, known for running servant leadership-based design processes that bring in every voice in the room, from superintendents to students.

Anna, welcome. Oh, thank you, Sarah. Yeah. Thanks for coming. So before we get into this decade, I wanna start at the beginning. You've been working in architecture since you were 14. I have. What brought you to architecture in general, and then what brought you to Schmidt Associates?

Anna Marie Burrell: Thank you. It's a r- I feel like it's a real privilege to be asked to

talk to you about the history of Schmidt Associates. In my mind, my entire life has been training for being here and doing what I'm doing today. As you mentioned, I've been working since I was 14 years old in architecture, and it really all started because as a little girl I thought I wanted to be a ballerina.

And I had a very determined mother who got sick when I was younger and didn't want me to be relying on my body, and wanted to make sure I could take care of myself when I [00:02:00] was older. Mm. And she noticed that I was in our backyard, and I was watching as a house was appearing in the woods behind us. And as I was watching, I was bringing a sketchbook out.

I was starting to sketch it, and I do remember at that time, really my imagination was starting to really get sparked. I was getting this excitement within me on what was happening. It... And it happened to be Craig Mullins, Browning Day Mullins Deardorff. He was architect back, ooh, what would that have been?

'84 or so. Mm. And he was building his home, and it was like a little birdhouse. He was not disturbing the woods and the environment. He was building around trees, and it was just s- it was so beautiful. So my mom ended up reaching out to them, and they were having their first child, Aaron. And my mom and Mrs.

Mullins talked about me babysitting for them. And so then as I got over there and I started to babysit, they really realized that there was something there that I was interested in. So he let me go in and work with the different architects [00:03:00] at Browning Day. And i- in that- Mm ... you know, we're working with the Eitel George right now.

Sure. One of the projects that I got to work on, and I got to meet Mr. Eitel George, was doing some little drawings for that project. But then from there, it was back when there was some of the decline in the economy in architecture. and he said, "Hey, if you can find a place to go work, go ahead and do that."

So I did. And I found a job with Schinkel Scholz, and it was there that I ran into my second mentor. Tom Neff. And Tom Neff was just this amazing architect who really started to think about educational architecture. That is what Shultz did. And he looked at it through the educational program, taking the educational program and what was being taught, pulling that into space.

And so he really mentored me to start thinking that way and start to really enjoy working with educators And so, eh, we then got the privilege to work with [00:04:00] Schmidt Associates, 'cause Schmidt Associates was working on all of the IPS. It was a huge, almost billion-dollar IPS projects back then. And I was working on School 34.

And in the midst of working on School 34, one of the things that Schmidt did that I've always thought, and that's what makes this so special, is they wanted to make sure that we were working with not only the staff at the school, but with the students. And so they really put emphasis on, 'cause they were the project managers for all the architects in town, find ways to start to engage with the students.

And so at School 34, there was a group of students that was interested in architecture, and they... We joined and worked with them. Competition at the Children's Museum about the history of your building, and they built a model, and they won. And so through all of that, I got to really understand the culture or see it, a little spark of what the culture was at Schmidt Associates.

And then I also was running into Wayne, because Wayne was at everything. He was leading this [00:05:00] process. He was Wayne Schmidt with that red hat- Mm ... scurrying around everywhere. So we would be at dinners, a- and he would come up and say hello. And as I was looking at making a change, Schmidt was, you know, very strong in K12.

And I loved what I saw from the outside, and so really was jumping at that opportunity when it came to me. So 

Sarah Hempstead: when you got here- ... what did you find? Was the culture the way you expected it to be? 

Anna Marie Burrell: Well, it was better. It was. Looking from the outside, I... You know, you might remember this. A lot of times you might hear people saying, "You're going to Schmidt Associates?

It's a cult." It's like they all act the same. Right? You're gonna go drink the lemonade. I remember hearing that and not understanding why people were saying that, right? Right. And but when you get here and you realize there is this culture of immense care- ... for one another. We define it as servant leadership.

And it's that same care that we [00:06:00] give our clients that we're working with. And Wayne really exemplified that. And even if we were going to a meeting or walking outside, there might be somebody on the street asking for money. Not once did I ever see him not give somebody change when we were going somewhere together.

And it was his acceptance of everyone. And one of the things that I found so intriguing as I got here and I learned about him- ... was that how he grew up in a motel. And growing up in a motel, he would tell me as we would drive to meetings down to Vincent's, right, about His, he would watch his mom and dad dealing with the different clients that were coming in, and his bedroom basically, his family room was the lobby of the motel And so always making sure that he was the meeting the needs of others and always saying hi to anybody, being able to talk to anyone- was [00:07:00] just really something that I had not been a part of before. 

Sarah Hempstead: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think the hospitality basis of his growing up- ... really did manifest itself in his professional practice. I never quite thought about it that way. And like my joke was always somebody needed to teach him that-

not every profession needs to be 24/7- Yeah, right ... like a motel. Exactly. Yeah, he loved his work. But he, yeah, I mean, he, there were no, just no boundaries there- No ... for him. Yes, absolutely. Whatever. Yeah. Whatever clients needed all the time. Yeah. So let's start talking about the work itself. So the firm was already well-established in K-12, but this is really, the 2000s were a defining decade for the firm.

We were doing a ton of work managing- ... IPS, but also giant projects like Plainfield High School in 2004. It was a $75 million- ... dollar campus. And what was really interesting about that from my perspective was it really started with a community task force and trying to understand from business leaders and from teachers and from kids and from parents what it [00:08:00] was that they really needed in the community, performing arts and competition pools and field houses and things.

And starting there was different than my experience of starting other projects, other, other places. How did that mindset change the way you approach school projects even today? 

Anna Marie Burrell: Yeah. I do remember that. I remember getting here and noticing playing field that you're- Mm ... you're mentioning and noticing that it felt different and it looked different than other campuses that I'd ever seen for a school.

Like, the, there was the prairie grass, right? And there was the tower out in front that really made a nice statement, the access in and then those community spaces, but also then those student spaces- ... that were nestled in the courtyard area. And you could really tell that through that process that the community had been involved.

At the same time, we were starting the work at Vincennes. [00:09:00] Yep. Vincennes, you know, is the first city established- ... in Indiana. You have George Rogers Clark, you have the Wabash going right through it, so it has a very strong community basis. And so it was really interesting to start to work with Wayne and the team at Schmidt in understanding how we would pull the community together.

Very great at consensus-building- ... and being able to work with those that felt like the old middle school of which we were tasked with replacing it, it, with a new school. It was good enough for me, so why isn't that good enough for the future students? Just padlock the doors and don't let them walk out onto the street, right?

And how that could be contrasted to those that were really empowered by their history and wanting to make sure that they had a school that went above and beyond just bricks and mortar. In the end, it ended up being one of the first lead [00:10:00] schools- ... in Indiana. But also a celebration of who they were.

So pulling really that consensus together f- and meeting the needs of the, the entire community to have something that they could celebrate was a really fun process to watch and to, to work through with Wayne. 

Sarah Hempstead: I think that's interesting. At, K12 is, I believe, often misunderstood by people who aren't deeply engaged in it, that you can just take a school as a school as a school and you can- pick it up and just plop it in another community- Right. Yeah. ... and it makes sense. But that is, that is 100% Anti to everything that you were just- Right ... describing that makes a school work for a community. 

Anna Marie Burrell: Right. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, it has to be something that is built for th- those that are there so that they feel ownership- 

And pride in the end. 

Sarah Hempstead: Well, which, I mean, they're paying for it, right? Exactly. I mean, the local communities are paying for the experience they want their kids- ... need to have. And we all want our kids to have the [00:11:00] very best experience they can have, right? That's right. One project from that decade that I think is worth its own space, 'cause it does exemplify that, is Decatur Central High School.

'Cause talk about a really unique model to serve that community. Can you talk a little bit about that one and what was different? 

Anna Marie Burrell: Which was everything. Yeah. Right ... well, that's what's so fun about w- working in K12, is we are working with educators. Don Stinson- Mm ... superintendent at that time, and also Debbie Sullivan, assistant superintendent at that time.

We were given the opportunity by the community to build a new Decatur High School. And when that opportunity came to them, Don Stinson actually is a graduate from the high school, so you know, this- It's personal. Yeah, personal. I they wanted to make sure that they were not looking at it in the typical way.

You gotta remember, this was 20 years ago. Right? Yeah. Where people really were still sitting in, we don't think of this, in lines of rows of, of- ... of chairs and lecturing. And they wanted to give their students in [00:12:00] Decatur a different method of learning in which it was based around choice. Mm.

It was based about what are your interests. And in doing so, they knew that there were different philosophies out there. There were other people that were testing this, but it was in Colorado, California, Kansas City. And they pulled us in at the very, very, very beginning. And as they were developing this curriculum, they wanted to make sure that the architects and those that were designing it got to go with them and go and see how the different schools were operating when they were looking at more project-based type of learning skills.

And so when we went there, we didn't see new buildings- Mm ... because nobody was building new buildings yet. They got to really do this in a new building pretty much for the first time. We saw multi-story office buildings that had been made into more of these project-based spaces for high school students.

Lots of flip charts out in the hall. But what that's telling us, it was a lot of collaboration. Mm. It was a lot of [00:13:00] flexibility. How do you do that? And so they just wanted us to see how the students were learning different, and then empowered us with how can we do that structurally? 

Sarah Hempstead: That's super exciting when a client is coming to you with a transformational idea about education.

And I think that happens today, and it happened 20 years ago too, right? Those are the best relationships, the best clients. Right. So one of the things that changed in the conversation was obviously security in- ... in the 2000s. Which totally changed how we thought about who can get into a school and why.

Sure. What else has changed in the conversation in the last 20 years? And maybe what's stayed the same. Sure, 

Anna Marie Burrell: yeah. I'll say what's definitely changed is the focus on student health- Mm ... and mental health, and staff health, and how can the building affect that. We are building more spaces for reflection and for making sure that the space [00:14:00] is l- lit differently for different needs.

And so, you know, really understanding past the educational program that the space that students are in and the staff is in can really affect how we are thinking, our emotions, and our thoughts, and pulling in strategies that can help. 

Sarah Hempstead: Yeah. You know, we, we are still working with many of those clients from the 2000s.

And we work hard at Getting that kind of trusted relationship with our partners. When clients do come back to us again and again over different initiatives, what do you think makes them do that? Why do they do that? I 

Anna Marie Burrell: think it's relationship, but I also believe that i- beyond relationship, it has to be trust that we have been communicating with them, we have been transparent with them, and that we are [00:15:00] very consistent with them.

We have great processes here that help with that. In fact, you and I were talking about how we have the award- Sure ... right? Yep. For eating the frog. And really, when clients come back to us, they typically are saying it is because we took care of something. Architecture is the old man's s- sport, right?

You get gray hair because you're always learning, and we know that it's not perfect and there's always going to be something, but is it how we ended up working to make things right- Yeah ... with the client. Yeah. Trust, yeah. 

Sarah Hempstead: So when you talk about trust, K12 work wasn't the only place where we were working with multiple clients and multiple communities to make things happen.

And one of the projects from that decade was working with Ivy Tech and working with Eli Lilly and working with the community to do improvements along Fall Creek, including the Science Corridor. I was part of that project, [00:16:00] which was lots of fun. It had art integration- ... and gardens and greening of space- and things like that. Every K12 project feels like that, ... now and really starting then. How do you look at that kind of- Community engagement and how do we generate it in our K-12 

Anna Marie Burrell: work? I think it's looking past the bricks and mortar piece of it and really making sure that we're thinking about being advocates for the environment, advocates for the wellness, and finding opportunities for engagement, not only through the design but then when the building is done, how is that building engaging with the community?

How is it showing that there's that environmental advocacy or that wellness advocacy? What comes to mind is International School. You know, if you think about the way that the playground was designed there, or if you look at Cathedral High School, who has a wellness program that they're implementing that is more on the curriculum side, but wanting us to look at the wellness program on the physical side of the building and [00:17:00] looking at things such as walking paths, but also the way they have an outdoor classroom, et cetera.

Absolutely everything that they're doing is coming back to that overall wellness piece of it. Well, 

Sarah Hempstead: and I feel like the health and sustainability, the wellness and sustainability, again, those seeds were planted in the early 2000s- ... with things like the Three Mass building. And those who have been listening to the podcast have heard me talk about Mass EP- I think every time, but that's because we keep improving and being involved with Mass EP through all of these decades. One of the first green roofs, Oh, yeah. ... in town was the green roof on Three Mass condos building. But sustainability, health and wellness, we see it throughout all of our school projects now.

Even if folks are neutral about where energy comes from, they wanna spend- ... less of it. How do you think about, how does the firm think about sustainable design as it applies to different communities and different schools as you move throughout the state? 

Anna Marie Burrell: It's really about is the building timeless- in the end, and [00:18:00] making sure that the building doesn't get in the way of how the end users are needing to function and change throughout the years. And you can do that in the way that the spaces are organized and, or you can do that in the way that you're looking at the energy efficient systems to it, or you can do it in the way that you're looking at the overall orientation of the facility, right?

Yeah. But it's just making sure that we're doing absolutely everything that we can do to be frugal with the taxpayers' money in the end so that this is a lifelong investment. And what, the money that we're spending now will h- be working into the future for years to come. 

Sarah Hempstead: I just wanna touch on the application of those ideas when it comes to more urban school systems in particular.

When we talk about working with IPS- ... when we're talking about working with JCPS in Louisville. It seems to me that those initiatives are e- [00:19:00] maybe even more important- 

Anna Marie Burrell: Yeah ... in 

Sarah Hempstead: city environments. 

Anna Marie Burrell: Right. Yeah. And d- definitely, and making sure that the community understands what the school is doing on their behalf and what these systems are, and the students too.

We talk a lot about the buildings actually become that learning center- ... for the kids, and the tool that the teachers can use to teach our future scientists- ... right, about how buildings and structure and engineering really does have an impact on the overall community and environment and our futures.

Sarah Hempstead: Yeah. 

Anna Marie Burrell: And the bodies in the room. And the bodies in the room. The learners in the room. Right. The learners in the room. Uh-huh. 

Sarah Hempstead: Well, so one, one more thing I wanted to talk about that was pivotal to the 2000s that still manifests itself today is the 2000s brought Schmidt Academy into perspective for us.

We had always had different learning opportunities and brought vendors in, and we still do all of those- Sure ... things, but partner Lisa Gomperts- Right ... came to us also in the 2000s about when we did, [00:20:00] and really formalized our Schmidt Academy, which is kind of a lifelong learning initiative- Everybody, from the- intern that walks in the door today to, to all of the partners. Sure. So what's it mean to you that we see ourselves as a learning organization, and that we invest in that as a culture? 

Anna Marie Burrell: We wouldn't be doing what we were doing, and it wouldn't be as exciting as what it is if we were not all lifelong learners really.

Yeah. And the fact that internally it is important for all of us to continually be given the empowerment to grow and to meet any goal that we want. To be able to ask for the- ... that we know are going to help with overall growth in all of us, and to be able to be given the opportunity to mentor others, really it circles all the way back around to [00:21:00] that servant leadership and those that we are serving in the educational and the K-12 community.

Sarah Hempstead: I think what it gets to though is one of the reasons that we like working with educators and cultural institutions- Right ... and community organizations, is that they tend to be curious. They tend to be lifelong learners. Right. And I think that is, when people ask me what's the mark of someone who will fit well at Schmidt- I always put curiosity on the top of my- Right ... on the top of my list. Right. 'Cause it leads, curiosity leads to empathy and it leads to creativity too. Right. So yeah. Yeah, absolutely. All right, so before we wrap up, if someone is listening right now who is early in their career, they're watching their neighbor build a house- Right

from their backyard, and they are drawn to design, they're drawn to community, what would you want them to hear? What would you want them to know? 

Anna Marie Burrell: Well, to find a place that really does care. And this is where I'm gonna be corny- You're good ... here for a second. You're good. So this is real. Okay. When I and you and I started- at Schmidt Associates, you know, [00:22:00] I, I, we both... I had small children. I know you were getting ready to have small children. I, yes. And- Yes, I did ... you know, and I came into this environment, and an environment that really made me feel like I could flourish, but at the same time, I'm reading to my kids at- at bedtime, right? So I've always remembered this book, I know it's silly. And this book is called Pierre: A Cautionary Tale. My kids will kill me because I have brought this out. Oh, well, I could, I- And- Oh, it's Maurice Sendak. I love him ... I know. But this is about Pierre who said he didn't care. Okay, so I'm reading this to my boys.

The moral is to care. And I just know- Oh, that's awesome ... as Schmidt Associates is so, so special, and I, and I found that special team when I got here, and now have seen it happen that we can conquer any lion, we can make friends with any lion, and we can work with any lion. That's awesome.

Sarah Hempstead: Well, that seems like a good place for us to close out. You know, you often ask for book reviews. I've not gotten a Maurice Sendak yet. I think that's a really good one. Thank you for being on. 21 years, that's [00:23:00] a career, that's a commitment. It's awesome. And starting in 2000. So 2000s were proof that when we grow with purpose, it means a lot more than just expanding a portfolio.

We stayed rooted in what made design matter, people first, community always. With schools, with civic spaces, with sustainability, health and wellness. Those places are, are still standing, are still... They're changing, but they're still serving their communities. That approach that built them is still how we operate today.

Thanks. And the next time we're gonna step into the 2010s, a decade that brought us new scale, new challenges, and a decision that will change the shape of the firm permanently. And if you're enjoying this series, follow Foundations and Futures by the Decade on your favorite podcast platforms. Connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at Schmidt Associates.

Thanks for listening.