From ADHD to Achiever: Kellan James' Path to Success Mastery | 100 ways to make $100k

Curious about how someone with ADHD can transform their life and achieve extraordinary success? In this captivating episode of "From ADHD to Achiever: Kellan James' Path to Success Mastery," Kellan James reveals the secrets behind his remarkable journey from struggling with ADHD to becoming a high achiever.

You’ll learn how Kellan harnessed the power of asking the right questions, why mentorship was a game-changer for him, and how practicing stillness unlocked new levels of personal growth. He also shares the exact habits and strategies that helped him overcome obstacles that once seemed insurmountable.

Discover the books that have shaped his thinking and the philosophies that guide his daily life. If you’re looking for actionable insights on turning challenges into triumphs, this episode is packed with valuable lessons you won’t want to miss. 

Tune in and find out how you, too, can master your path to success, no matter the obstacles in your way!

Transcript

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1 What's going on is Javon Nazir. And we are here again for another episode of 100 Ways to Make 100 K. And we came all the way to London, Ontario to meet the legendary, the one, the only Mr. Kaelin James. Now he's, what, 33 years old, and he's at this point now where he's got 88 rental units. Now, he did this all with no joint venture partner. 1 So a lot of people end up going out and wanting to raise money. But Kaelin has done it all on his own and built up a snowball from saving back when he was at work, living frugally and in this episode, he's going to dive into some of the techniques and tools that he used on that journey. We broke down some of his beliefs, some of the things that he's done, some of the things that he's doing, and a little bit about where he's going in the future. 1 Now we've got a little bit of a prediction in this episode that we might have to revisit by the time it actually drops. But regardless, I think you're going to like it. And if you think it's tough to buy a house, I think this episode might show you some ways how and some ways that you might be able to restructure those beliefs. 1 So I'm really excited to give him an opportunity to introduce himself. 2 I'm Kaelin James. I built a portfolio of 88 units of rental real estate. I did it with no partners, which is kind of a big part of what I did to differentiate myself over the years. It was something that I actually thought was a natural progression. You know, you buy your first. 3 Property, your. 2 Second property, like why not just keep buying your own buildings? A lot of people, they feel like they get stuck. They don't know how to continue scaling. Maybe the deals they're doing aren't good enough to be able to pull the equity out to continue acquiring. So they bring on partners maybe to get. 3 Approval for financing. 2 Because they're not sure how to do the financing. 3 More on their own. 2 Or they didn't pull up enough, pull up pull out enough equity from the others to continue on. So that was that's been my focus is like doing really good Bur projects buy, renovate, rent, refinance and really get better projects so that I can continue to keep that momentum up there. 1 Who is and before real estate investing, you know, take me back. Where were you in London, Ontario right now? Yeah, but where are you from originally? 3 I grew up in Sue Sainte-Marie. 2 I was there actually until I was 22. So I stayed there after high school and I did university there. I lived at my parents house for four years. I paid my way through university but lived at home so I didn't have to pay for living expenses, at least while I paid for food and stuff. 3 But I paid for my school. 2 And and then when I was 22. 3 Moved to London, I moved here for. 2 Work just in the tech world because I did a computer. 3 Science. 2 Degree. So I. 3 Did systems integration for. 2 Cisco, Cisco Systems, and then worked for another company doing like quality assurance, like software, QR management and stuff. And by the end of my career, I, I only maxed out at eight a year. So I never had a massive salary or anything like that. You know, real estate was significantly less expensive when I was when I was initially acquiring it from like 2016 until I eventually quit my job in 2019. 2 But, you know, the same principles all apply. And yeah, it's all about adding value to these buildings. Learning how the banking system works. Learning how to continue getting qualified, you know, qualifying, getting approvals for mortgages and yeah, continue to scale. 1 Why did you even buy real estate in the first place? Like you're a software engineer? Why don't you just stick to software? 3 It wasn't. 2 My passion. 3 I think, like, you know, when I was in computer. 2 Science, I saw. 3 What it looked like for people to be. 2 Passionate about programing. And it wasn't what I it wasn't I wasn't passionate about. I've always viewed it as a bit of a means to an end. Okay. 3 And I think initially I viewed real estate as like my. 2 Plan was for it to be sort of a means to an end. 3 I started. 2 In, say, 20, I don't know, say 2012. 3 Really. Like as soon. 2 As I graduated, I was like, I started working. I sat down at the desk and, you know, day after day, week after week, and I went, Oh, well, this is going to be monotonous for 30 years. And so pretty quickly I was like. 3 Well, there's lots of people. 2 Who would accept that as the way life is going to be and, you know, more power to them if they're happy doing that. But I knew that it wasn't going to be what I wanted to do. So I started looking for a way out and I found financial independence. 3 You know, blogs and things like that. 2 And Mr. Money Mustache. Yeah, you're talking about like index funds and. 3 You know, just living frugally, which I was already doing. So resonated with me because I was always. 2 Really good at saving and the idea of, you know, just. 3 Index funds. 2 You know, the 4% safe. 3 Withdrawal. 2 Rate and the ability to, say, retire in ten, 15 years kind of thing rather than, you know, 25, 30 years or longer or never. 3 And I was like, well, there's. 2 A way out. Okay, that's good. Well, I. 3 Know I'm going to start. 2 Saving and so I was heading down that that path for quite a while with the plan to do it with index funds. 1 Yeah. Okay. 2 And then and then I was like. 3 Well, at what point do I buy a house? You know, I still. 2 When I moved to London, I actually sold my car because I wanted to save every penny I could. So I walked to work. I worked a second job as well after. 3 My full time job, I worked. 2 For Intel like the you know, the processor. 3 Company. I work just like. 2 Doing, like, sales stuff for them in a Best Buy. Okay. Yeah. So just like on weekends. So I worked all the time, saved what I could, and, and I knew that I'd wanted to at some point I'm going to want to buy a house. 3 And then I was like, Well, what about a duplex? 2 Like, I saw. 3 These places with. 2 Two mailboxes and two doors. 3 And it's like, well, the one. 2 Side is paying rent. That's pretty cool. Like, and, and so I was. 3 Like, well, duplex. 2 Could make sense. And, and so I started looking at these kinds of. 3 Properties a little bit. And then, you know, some years. 2 Passed, ended up not buying anything. And then at one point someone on the financial independence subreddit on Reddit was like, Hey, you should check out bigger pockets, or I saw a comment about bigger pockets. 1 And, and. 3 And that was the rabbit hole that soon as I saw bigger pockets, I. 2 You know, I went on there, I listened to like 100 episodes of the early episodes, which were awesome and, and, and they kept repeating like, hey, if you want to get in touch with people in your own city on bigger pockets, just set an alert for the word like London, Ontario, for example. And so I set an alert and then a couple of months later something and I got an. 3 Email and it was like someone mentioned London. 2 Ontario on bigger pockets on this website. And, and, and it was now a friend of mine actually, who, you know, we ended up meeting up and a few of us at the time was like Matt McKeever and a few other folks met up and, and, you know, I was pretty quickly inspired by the fact that there are people in my city who had like at the time, like, you know, Matt had like 13 units and I was like, I've got nothing. 2 And I'm looking to maybe buy a duplex, maybe I'll buy with 20% down. 3 And do. 2 This. And he and he was like, Why not with 5% down, you know, not enough nothing. One of my early. 3 Mentors for years. 2 Really, because he told me he taught me about how to, you know, how to keep up acquisition momentum, how to not over improve buildings and, you know, add value strategically. You know, how to do the refinance process, get your money out, keep that momentum up. So, you know, that was sort of the that was sort of the you know, we ended up starting. 3 Meetup. 2 Groups and Yeah. And getting a lot of people out and cool. 1 Yeah. Was that your first mentor? 2 Yes. Yeah. In in the real estate space. I mean, of. 3 Course I think, I think people really. 2 Need to recognize that mentors. 3 All around them all over the place. 2 And like, like we were talking about video games earlier for the podcast and like, you know, if I wanted to get really good at Rocket League, which is a game I play, I'd. 1 Crush, you know? 2 Yeah, if I. 3 Want to get Greater Rocket League. 2 I would, I would go on YouTube and I'd I'd look at people who are really good a rocket league that sell coaching honestly and cause. 3 They're like 50 bucks or 100 bucks right. Like yeah for like an hour, like, you know, mentorship for things. 2 Outside of real estate. 3 Are actually really affordable. 2 And it's because. 3 While the value they're. 2 Bringing isn't anywhere near the same as, you know, mentorship. 3 In the real. 2 Estate space. Yeah. You know, if you're in this, you know, in the stock trading or things. 3 Like that, their value proposition is much stronger with video. 2 Games is cheap. But. 3 You know. 2 I think that it's such a it's such a hack, it's such a it's such a chichi to just hire a mentor to teach thing. It's like I was never great with them. You know, I like elementary school, high school, that kind of stuff. Sitting in a big class. It was never for me. So the one on one stuff was always key. 1 And did you know that from early on, or is that more of a recent belief? 2 David Morrison It was something that, you know, I. 3 Started to recognize it. 2 Once I started providing it for other people because I was like, whoa, Like people can. 3 You know, people can progress. They're standing on the shoulders of giants. 2 Like, yeah, you're. 3 Just like, Here's the playbook. 2 Just follow it. And they trust because they've seen the process work. You know, for people like myself and they just follow the playbook. And I've had multiple. 3 Students leave their. 2 Jobs at this point, traveling the. 3 World and all this cool stuff. And I'm like, this is cool. 2 And, and like, I want to apply this for myself. I hired a. 3 Coach as well. You know, any anything I want to learn about at this. 2 Point, I'm just going to hire people to teach me. Yeah. 3 Because you just. 2 Save so much time. You save weeks or months or years of rumination and just churning through these thoughts in your head and stuff. 3 And it's just like. 2 How do I do this? And someone who's done it. 3 Before is like, Here's the playbook. 2 And so it's it's a it's a, you know, a time machine. 1 Like literally. Yeah. To witness the things that you're learning these days. 3 So these days, a lot of what I try to. 2 Do is focus on the highest level. 3 Decisions I can make my business, because more and more, you know, you know, in the early days. 2 Of real estate investing, it's your your cowboy kind of thing. Yeah. Or cowgirl. And you're you know, you're you're really you're you're maybe you're doing. 3 Renovations yourself or. 2 You know, you're managing everything you're doing, you know. And so over the years, you know, very quickly, actually, I started hiring out all the renovations. I haven't done renovations myself for probably five years now and and. 3 Then hired out property management. 2 Brought on like a GC so that like renos are now managed on my behalf. You know, on the social media space, I was like, I'm doing all this myself. 3 I hired a video editor. 2 Now my social media is. 3 Growing really quickly because I don't. 2 Have to do any of it myself so I can scale. Well, I hired, you know. 3 An assistant and executive assistant more recently as well, which. 2 Which has been an amazing, amazing thing for just time savings because, yeah, really every hour that my assistant is doing things, it saves me an hour, which is amazing. Yeah. Like, that's not always going to be the case. Um, but yeah, over. 3 The years it just became more. 2 And more apparent to me the value of outsourcing, the value of mentorship and how. 3 Those are other forms of. 2 Leverage aside from just, you know, financial leverage. Yeah, other forms of it. 1 So when, when was the first time you made 100 grand in a year? Do you remember? 3 Yeah, it was, it was 20. It was my, it was my. 2 Second building actually. 3 Second building. The second building. So the first one I. 2 Bought and you know, I bought it for a good price. Yeah. I paid 177 for a new one. 1 Was this 26. 2016. 2 Yeah. They're actually 185 and I offered one. We settled on 177 and I lived in that one half of that building and did the other. Yeah. And then moved into the other side and rented the other side and then, but then while I was doing that I bought a duplex that was really rundown and I paid 127 for. 1 It. 2 And. 3 Four months later. 2 It was worth to 50. 3 Which was around the market. 2 Value of Duplex. At the time, this was just in such bad shape that I got a really great deal. So I put I only put 25 into it. So I was in for about one little over 150 and, and it replaced 250. So that was my first, that was my first. 3 Like very clear 100. 2 Percent equity built. Yeah. And that was a. 3 Perfect burr, which meant. 2 That I was able to pull all my money out. 3 And yeah, so that was the wakeup. 2 Call. 3 For sure. 1 So that that probably changed a lot for you because there's a point when everything's theory, but then once it gets into practice, it really feels different, doesn't it? 2 Yeah, it was. That was like the wake up call of like. 3 Why don't I do ten. 2 More of these? 3 Like, why don't I do as many of these as possible. Yeah. 2 You know, the I made more that I made more on that than I made in like two years of salary at the time I was making, like, 50 grand. So, you know, that was like two years of salary in four months. And I did it on. 3 Evenings and weekends. And it was not don't get me wrong. 2 It was it was a challenge. You know, this property, especially doing these rentals and stuff myself. 1 And did sitting down for 8 hours, 10 hours a day at work is a challenge, right? Yeah. 3 Yeah. And it's not anywhere near as fun. Like, yeah, the stress of the stress in you guys. But no, this with video, right? Like the stress and interviewing and stuff, That's, that's fun. Like that type of stress. Yeah. Maybe there is stress involved with it, but nowhere near the stress of like I have an exam tomorrow or some, you know, bullshit. 1 Yeah. 2 Yeah. So it's when. 3 You can self-imposed stress and you can, you know, have, you know, intentional hardship. 2 And. 3 And you know, control over your, over the work you're doing. 2 That's the fun. 3 Stress. Yeah. And I think you just have to choose your stress. 1 Yeah. It's the self-inflicted I mean there's always going to be stress like life without stress. Yeah, it's like boring. Yeah. Yeah. 3 Well, and I experienced that. 2 Because, you know. 3 2019 is when I left my day job. 2 And at that point at 52, 52 units with no, you. 1 Know, you had 52 units by the time you left your day job. 3 At tuna it was ah, actually sorry, it was 32. 2 Units when I left my day job. And then what was it? And then I, I was. 3 At some point I hit Oh yes, 50. 2 Two units when I, when to outsource my property management, 32 units. And I left my day job that was ten properties, Triplexes duplexes, a six plex. So 32 units self-managed, all that and self-managed it all until 52 units. 1 Now what was that relationship like with work at the time? Because you probably got friends that are like, Oh yeah, like we love this software. 3 Yeah. You know, I mean, I. 1 Did you keep the lifestyle. 3 It kept it relatively quiet. So you're. 1 Like Batman. You're just like, well, at nighttime. 3 They knew what I was. 2 Doing, but I wasn't talking about it. 3 Constantly, like because I had an outlet for that at meetups and with Friend, I was starting to build friendships with people that are. 2 To this day, some of my best friends. Yeah, because you want people around you that understand what you're doing. You know, oftentimes when you get really obsessed with something your friends and family don't seem to understand or resonate with it and you know, you hope that at least they support you. Yeah. And luckily, my friends and family did and still do. 3 But yeah, it was, uh, what was your question again? 2 I went on a rant. 1 Just like their relationship would work. It's okay. Yeah. Rents are great, man. Yeah, it's okay. Like. 3 I know I want to pull it back, though, but, yeah, the relationship will work. I was. I was. I know. I remember running. 2 Into the basement of this building all, like, multiple times a day to answer phone calls. Yeah, I remember. 1 I got a real estate phone call. 2 Real estate phone calls? Yeah. And, you know, like doing deals and managing contractors and dealing with tenants and stuff, even in the middle of my workday and, and, you know, kind of trying to hide that fact to some degree. But they knew kind of what I was doing. But at some point my phone was ringing constantly. So I was running to the basement all the time doing deals and and then. 3 So I actually. 2 I was planning on quitting in 2019. We were my my girlfriend at the time. Now my wife. 1 What's her name? Angie. Shadow and Angie. 2 Yeah. Yeah. And, and so. 3 She, she and I were. 2 Planning on. 3 Quitting our jobs. 2 And, and going on this van trip. And so we, we lined up plans. I said, okay, in two weeks I'm going to give my two weeks notice. Okay. And then like a. 3 Few days later, I got laid off. 1 And no way, because they're always in the business. Yeah. 3 Because at some point along the lines, what I, what I was really good at was outsourcing. 2 And when you outsource your own job in your employee land. 3 Yeah. 2 It means that you're no longer needed in entrepreneur land. That's the best thing you can do. 1 So. 2 So, you know, I was, I was passing along a lot of my roles to people to the point where, you know, because I was, I was getting more into the management space and that Yeah, but yeah. 3 So it was just. 2 Not a passion of mine. I wasn't was doing not very much work towards that. And then there. 1 And, and was there like a tension growing between you and the work. 3 I think it was an invisible tension. Okay. To some. 1 Degree. So it was just within you. 3 I think it was. I think it was. No, I do think that like people noticed. 2 I think. Yeah. But I mean. 3 Coworkers and stuff. 2 There weren't issues with coworkers, but I'm sure that my boss was like, more could have gotten done here. 1 Yeah. 3 So that's why it was perfect. 2 Because, you know, when you get laid off you can get. 3 Severance, etc.. 2 So yeah. And then the same thing ended up happening to my my girlfriend at the time. 3 I know she also. 2 Got laid off coincidentally at like at basically the exact same time, like a maybe a week or two later as well. So then we were like, Perfect, let's go. And we, we, we had a sprinter van that we bought and we is. 1 That the one. 3 Someone talked her on back area So yeah we've had her for we've. 2 Had it for like four years now or more and Yeah. And yeah, we, we renovated ourself, we put a bed in the back, we brought our dog and we left for, we left for three months and lived in that van. 3 And Wal-Mart parking lot and. 1 It wasn't expected to be three months at the time. 3 It was actually Oh it was the plan was to leave for three months. Okay. Okay. And that was a big, big part of that. Like, oh, we have to we have to quit. You have to do this. Like, when when else are we going to do this? 2 You know, I had reached ten buildings at the time as well. That's when Scotiabank's starts, you know, not you can't get bank loans anymore from typical lenders. 3 Yeah, traditional lenders. 2 So I knew that was the cut off when it comes to traditional financing anyway. And so, yeah, the plan was quit leave for three months and we did. 3 We slept in Wal-Mart parking lots for free. 2 So every morning you can get up and just go into Wal Mart, get the food for the day, use the washroom, brush your teeth. 1 And yeah, and keep them. 2 Around. Yeah. And then we, we showered at Planet Fitness because we paid like 10 to 15. 3 Dollars or whatever. 2 Yeah. And we could shower anywhere in the States basically because of fitness everywhere. Yeah. And so we would go shower, we'd get, you know, I'd use the massage chair, maybe get a quick workout in and, you know, and, and but yeah, we traveled 30,000 kilometers in three months. 1 Wow. 2 And we went from London, Ontario, up to Maine, down to South. 3 Carolina. 2 Across all the way to L.A., up to Vancouver, Canada, and and. 1 And then back. 2 And back. So we circled the states. We saw like 30 something national. 3 Parks. 1 And. 2 And a whole I forget. I forget. Actually, there's the map right there. 1 Oh, you know. Yeah, there was. You think that was one of the most rewarding and absolutely. Like you stopped twice in Utah. 3 We loved you. 1 Do the place gorge. 3 We did? Yeah, we did. We did. 2 Dipped into Utah a couple of times. Yeah, yeah. 3 Yeah. 2 Yeah. I swam in the lake, the salt lake there. 3 Which crazy. 2 You should not do it. Yeah, that's disgusting. 3 I think that I realized once I was there that no. 2 One actually swims in this. 3 Lake like, because it's. 2 A salt lake. Yeah. 1 Yeah. Pretty burns your eyes it. 3 But I was like yeah, but that was a. 2 That was a big moment for, for me and my investing career. 3 Also for our relationship because. 2 We had, we have been dating for less than a year at that time. 1 And so we went, this was sink or swim right here it was we make the we survive this trip and we're and we're going exactly together. This is where we were in life. 3 We've been together like eight months or something. Yeah. And we're like. 2 Let's go live in a van for three months together. And then, I mean, we yeah, it. 3 Was it was clear that, like, let's see how this, let's see how this goes. Like, yeah, it really can only go really well or really poorly. 1 Yeah, but there's no in between. They're going to be the greatest trip of our lives are the. 3 Best. 2 And we loved it. 3 Yeah, we ended up loving it. 1 So as you look back, you think that's still a highlight? 3 Yeah, that's still one to this day. 2 Still one of the coolest things that I think that I've ever done. I had never gone on a vacation for more than a week at that point. Really? 1 So why not? Because of work, right? 3 Well, yeah, and because just like with frugality, with. 2 Money, I was similar with vacation time and things like that. So I would stretch it and I would do like long weekends and whatever. And I never. 3 Never. 2 For more than a week ever. So three months was the first time I'd ever been away from. 3 Home for that length of time. Yeah. You know. 2 It was I got homesick around probably like two, two and a half months. I was like, I'm starting to get home sick for sure. I miss my friends and family and, you know, obviously we were having a great time, but towards the towards that, the northern part of the state. So I. 3 Was like. 2 Let's look forward to kind of getting home now. And yeah, and then when we got back, it was now what, you know, yeah, I'm not going back to work. So it's, it's Monday now what Now what? And so. 3 I was like, well, I'm enjoying. 2 Real estate. I mean, I'll just keep doing this. Yeah. And so I was like, Well, how am I going to get financing? 1 So this was at the ten, this is at the Times. Mark Yeah. So you're at this, you're at this roadblock. What do you. 3 Do? 2 Yeah. 3 So that was when. 2 I started talking with as many people as I could because, you know, the idea is who, not how, right? I don't know how. So who knows the answer? 3 Yeah, that's the same with mentorship. 2 Really is. Yeah. Who not? How so? 3 I called a bunch of mortgage. 2 Brokers, friends, investors, things like that, you know? Hey, how can you get, you know, mortgages when you can't when you don't have time for income? Yeah. And so, you know, eventually I found that credit unions are an option. Okay. And so credit unions are like local banks, basically. And instead of. 3 80% loan to value, they're more like 75%. The rates are maybe a little bit higher, although these days. 2 They actually can be a little. 3 Bit lower. 2 Than traditional banks, I'm finding. 1 And they're doing whatever they can. I mean, think about it. If you were to start a bank, how would you get customers, right? 2 Yeah, no, exactly. 1 They get more favorable than the real banks. Yeah. 3 And, and they're they're just so much more like they asked for my bio when I said, you know, like, who are you? What's your story? Like, when does, like, TD. 2 Bank ask you this or. 3 Whatever, right? No one cares, you know. So they were like, what's your story and whatever? And like, they want to know this stuff because they want. 2 To know who they're working with. And and so that was really refreshing. And but the most refreshing part about it was getting refinanced funds and getting approval for financing for new acquisitions. And so, you know. 3 Lending was a little bit more difficult, you know, because more larger down. 2 Payments and. 3 Lower. 2 Amortization and things like that. But it it just made it was it was it it forced me to make sure the deals were really good. And so, yeah. So once I found that I was able to continue scaling without the, the day job income. Yeah. At which point I sort of. 3 Viewed my act, I was still, you know, I am still doing. 2 Active, you know, work. So like, I wouldn't say I was retired, but I definitely had retired from the 9 to 5. 1 And you're retired for two and a half months and you're not bored. 3 Yeah, exactly. That's that was that was how we got to this. It was. Yeah, it. 2 Was you Very quickly you want to. 3 You, you want to be doing something. You want to be. 2 Making progress and whatever that it doesn't have to be, you know, income generating doesn't have to be work, you know, you know, for a lot of people. 3 They could there's plenty of people who could probably very. 2 Well fill their time with, you know, fitness and relationships and friends and travel and all sorts of these things. But I. 3 Find even. 2 Travel for a lot of people. 3 You do a lot of that is work and you're like, yeah, it's but you're also like, you want to get back and do some do some actual work. 2 Yeah, yeah. At least for me, my wife can travel forever and we have, we've gone to in 2021 we did Australia. 3 For a month, New Zealand for two weeks, Norway. 2 For three weeks. Wow. Like we did Costa Rica. Dominican. 1 Has lifestyle always been kind of like a priority for you because like when did when Oh what Yeah. Talk about that change from frugality to you know kind of like this emphasis on lifestyle. 3 This is only this is only recent. 2 For me the travel and stuff. 3 Travel was never actually a large interest of mine. I mean, I love road trips. 2 Yeah. So I've always loved road trips. So that was. 1 Tedious. 3 So yeah. But all the yeah, I don't know. It's just a romantic thing of like, you know, you get in place to. 2 Music and drive for hours. 1 Yeah. That's the best. That's the destination. 3 Yeah. Yeah. I can enjoy that journey. You know, flying places. 2 I do not enjoy that process. 3 I like, you. 2 Know, I've, we've seen a lot of amazing. 3 Things in all these travels. 2 But. But I really love road trips and. 3 You know, flying to a very. 2 Specific destinations. And so I got burnt out with travel. And so and actually. 3 During. 2 2021 was also when I, I had actually gotten burnt out from doing like too much coaching and too much in the real estate space. 3 A bit of it there. Yeah. 2 I found that like point of burnout because I, you know, I've ADHD and so I tend to really hyper focus on things when I find things that are like a good source of dopamine for me. And so real estate has been that, yeah, forever. 1 So how did, how did your even before we get to too far into the lifestyle piece, right. How is your buybacks changed Because you mentioned as you go into the credit unions, they get a little bit more difficult to to scale. So you probably have like this general criteria that you're investing with before. And then as as they slap on some new criteria that kind of changed for you. 3 It wasn't so much the. 2 Criteria of the banks that. 3 Changed. It was more so I. 2 Did make a change into. 3 Larger apartment buildings. 1 And this was around that same time. 3 This was around that time. Yeah. Yeah, it was. And but it wasn't. So again, it wasn't so. 2 Much because of what the banks expected, they would have been perfectly happy to continue getting buying to do for you to buildings. Yeah. 3 I just thought you know, I started to realize. 2 If I'm going to be outsourcing. 3 Management for these things, I want to make sure that this is a simple portfolio. 2 That's easy to outsource. It's easier to keep an eye on, You. 3 Know, having more are having fewer large buildings versus a bunch of small ones is. 2 Just less mental bandwidth. I've always had a pretty good idea of what's on my mind and keeping keeping in touch with my mental bandwidth. And so, you know, I started buying more six unit eight unit. I have a 1224 unit. Yeah, a couple flexes. And so I started. 3 Buying these little bit larger buildings. 2 Because it was just less to think about when I buy a 24, you know, building, it's so much less think about than 12 duplexes or something. 3 Yeah. 2 So, you. 3 Know, people talk about the one roof and the. 2 One furnace and whatever or whatever it is, but, you know, and that helps. 3 For sure. 2 But mostly for mental bandwidth, just less to think about. 1 So you get the same amount of units with way less transactional. Yeah. Far away, less I guess. I guess it's similar following up in terms of number of tenants, but in terms of like yeah, that all the expenses being under one roof. 2 Yeah. 3 And renovations, there are a lot more, you know, predictable typically when they're a little bit more purpose built at least or. 2 You know, and I have plenty of converted dwellings but I have some that are a little more purpose built, you know, half and half even. But I. 3 Mean, a big part of it that a lot. 2 Of people don't talk about is with. 3 Six units and up, that's when you can really start. 2 Valuing buildings off of cap. 3 Rates. Yeah. Versus more comparable sales. Yeah. You know, comparable sales can be a little less predictable. 2 But when you get into six units enough, you can reverse engineer the value of a building based on its net operating income. And so you can you can you can make. 3 More predictable acquisitions. 2 And more predictable buyers, and you can understand how the numbers. 3 Shake out a little more. 2 Yeah. And so that's a you know, the larger your business gets, the more you do have to introduce systems and standard operating procedures and things like that. And so when you, you know, you tend to favor things that are a little more predictable. 1 Yeah. 2 So yeah, larger. 3 Larger buildings has been my focus. Although I did just. 2 Buy a triplex recently and found a good deal and I could pass it up. 3 So yeah, I'm, I'm not closed. 2 Off to the idea of any smaller. 1 Buildings. Just how are you finding deals? How are you finding deals before how are you finding deals these days. 3 So a lot of off market, probably what half of my portfolio has been off. 2 Market and half on the market. 1 So that just relationships with sellers as a wholesaler is. 3 Everything to you. Everything, I guess all of that. 2 Yeah. So like. 3 Building the social media helps, you. 2 Know, people do send me things, you know, I tend to mention a lot of finder's fees. You know, it used to be a thousand bucks. Now it's like 2500 bucks. You know, 20. 3 500 bucks. You just. 2 Yeah, you just. 3 Shoot me, shoot me and text with like. 2 The phone number of an owner. If I if I end up getting in touch with that person and buying the property, you get 2500 bucks. And so, you know, you get people every once in a while like, hey, you know, and sending you leads that way. But yeah, talking to wholesalers, I honestly I think I only about one property from a wholesaler before I was always. 3 Finding my. 2 Own deals. 3 Yeah. Kind of do what the. 2 Wholesalers do so you know I did plenty of door knocking. You can send out fliers and drop fliers off in people's mailboxes. Yeah. You know, a lot of like talking with. 3 Contractors you can talk with like your pest. 2 Control people for like, you know, whatever like. 1 Bought house is messy. 3 Yeah, exactly. Like junk removal. 2 People like, you know, demo guys. Like, which houses are you doing this work in? Because maybe. 3 The owners are willing to sell, so I'm all. 2 Over the place. Yeah. That's the only way to approach off market deals. One of the best ways, I think the other is a massive flier. 3 Campaign, but those are a. 2 Lot less effective right now than they ever used to be. So yeah, it's really about networking with people and knocking on doors and talking to people and yeah, you. 3 Know, you can, you can send mail, you can send letters directly to owners as. 2 Well. You can find their mailing address on public record. So yeah. 1 So when you, when you're networking comes in handy, I guess I guess social media becomes like a real huge asset towards that. 3 Yeah. So social media. Yeah, the goal of it is another form of leverage. 2 You know, one to many conversations. So I can make a post and you know, thousands of people will see it and I don't need to have a thousand or 2000, 10,000 individual conversations. Yeah. So that's the value of podcasts. You know, it's. 3 Building trust as well. I've been doing. 2 This for seven years now. People can watch podcast I did seven years ago crazy talking about these things and long form content really helps with that because you. 3 Can only bullshit for so long when you. 2 Talk for. 3 An hour. 1 Yeah, yeah. 2 But. And people get a whiff of it after a bit, you know. 3 Like at least. 2 I like to think they do. 1 And so you focus on growing the social media now. But was it always that I mean, did you have a blackout period? 3 Yeah. So, so I. 1 Can't even that how that even came to. 3 Be. Yeah. Yeah. So in 2021 I think it was. 2 Was when I you know, that was when we. 3 Did a lot of traveling and things like that. 2 And when I just. 3 Realized I was spending, you know, I was doing really well in the real estate space. 2 And even I was comparing myself. 3 With people. 1 When did you when did you start calling it saying to yourself, I'm doing well? Like, when did when did well for yourself become a thing. 3 Before I retired? Because like, when I had like six building, which. 1 Part was retires were. 2 Like, quick. 3 Quit when I quit my job. Yeah, yeah. When I, when I left my job in ten. Yeah. So probably like, you know, couple of years in, you know, ago when I had like 20 plus. 2 Units, 30 units, I was like, okay, like things are working here. This is going well. You know, my, you know, when you hit like $1,000,000 net worth milestone that helps like yeah so mean. 3 That's when you started but like you know we were hosting meetup groups people were having you know holding value in your. 2 Words. That's a big part of it. You know, when people are like interested. 3 In hearing. 2 What you have to say, you know, when you go to an event and people are coming up to you asking questions. 3 And you're like, Oh, this is cool. Like this is you know. 2 I feel like I'm doing the right thing here, you know? MM Yeah. 1 That's that's cool, man. So, yeah, this blackout. 3 Yes. Yeah. So, yeah. So the blackout bring you. 1 Back to center. 3 You know. Yeah. Yeah. So in 2021 or so, I found myself, even though I was doing well in. 2 Real estate, that was when I was still finding myself, comparing myself with other people, you know? And so I just realized, you know, and I. 3 Was, I was doing a lot of. 2 Coaching at the time, so I had taken on more students than I probably felt like, you know, I felt like taking on reality. Yeah. And so and it was all one on one. 3 So not, not. 2 Particularly efficient now, you know, and I was doing like 12 month programs. 3 At the time with people. 2 So I had made a lot of commitments. I'd worked with a lot of people. And so I, you know, and when I make a commitment, I stick through. So I was, you know, making sure to provide as much value. 3 As I could, all these people and doing all my own real. 2 Estate stuff and also trying to live my life. 3 And all of it was just like, This. 2 Is too much. Yeah. And so and I saw what everyone sees with social media, the downsides of it and the comparing yourself and the, you know, all of that. And I wasn't even talking about like the cheap dopamine, you know, it was for me, it was just the, just the like comparing yourself really with other people. 1 It's like, oh, this person, not this one. Yeah, this is one. And you. 3 Start and plenty of people. 2 Do this. You make decisions for yourself that you wouldn't have made had you just thought about what you want. Yeah, you know, you're looking at what other people want and then you're doing what they want and because you think it's also what you want. So that was a big problem for me. Yeah, for everyone. For many people it is. 2 So I realized I need to just stop looking at what other people are doing and it'll allow me to be a little more in touch with what I want. So for so I was like, I'm going to stop, you know, one of my friends, a couple of my friends at the time, they were like, I want to I'm off Instagram. 2 It's been a month. 3 And like, they weren't people who were were particularly they weren't influencers or whatever, right? Yeah. 2 And I was like, well. 3 This would be a bit more of a big. 2 Deal for me to jump off because, you know, I've been in that space and it's been a big part of my life for a while, but I'm I'm going to drop off for like a month as well and see how it. 3 Goes. And then it was like three. 2 Months and I was like, I'm going to go a year. Like, Wow, I'm just going to. Yeah, like I had lost any desire to go back on. 3 To it. 2 You know? And when I say off social media, I mean, I wasn't on Instagram or Facebook. I wasn't looking at what other real estate investors were doing in the space. You know, I wasn't watching their YouTube videos or anything like that. I was just, you know, I would go on YouTube and watch, like, comedy or whatever, right? Yeah. 2 But I wasn't, you know, and it's still go on like Netflix and all these things. But I wasn't dropping off all media. 3 But just like, you know. 2 And, and then I was like, you know, at some point I probably. 3 Will approach social. 2 Media, but I want to make sure I don't fall into the same trap again. 1 What do you think taking that that space? So what do you think? What do you think? Taking that space and giving yourself that time away really did to your mind it. 3 You know, and it's actually. 2 Been a bit. So I'm trying to bring myself back to what it felt like. 3 But I know that I wasn't like, I'm going to travel. Never, not. 2 That I ever did this, but like, I'm going to. 3 Travel here to show people I'm on this beach here and I never did that stuff. But, you know, you know, to some degree you might do that. I might have done that a bit with real estate even, you know, like making sure that, you know, are coaching, like. 2 Making sure I'm doing things that are my own goals, you know? Yeah. And so it allowed me to get more in touch with the things that I wanted for myself and for my future, because I've always been pretty bad at goal setting. Honestly, I've always yeah, I've always been. 3 Terrible at. 2 It. 1 Rosie 88 rentals and your bad it goal set. 3 Yeah, it was me just following the dopamine. Yeah. Really. 2 I was like, I'm loving this and I'm working my ass off. But like, it's all just. 3 Going well and I'm enjoying it. 2 I'm just going to keep going. Yeah, but it was never I had no. 3 Intention of having a portfolio to this of this size. Really. I still have no idea. I'm getting more clarity on. 2 My goals now. 3 Okay, so more As of more recently. 2 I made the switch to prioritizing lifestyle first. 3 For a good long time. 2 It was always. 3 Building the portfolio. 2 Get my net worth as high as I can. That's the number. 3 One, you know, in the. 2 Business space. Yeah. And then, you know, and, and of course enjoy my life. And I, I've always prioritized my relationships, but, but now it's like, well, what do I want my lifestyle to be? You know, we're married now in the future will have kids and stuff. So I want to, you know, that really helps to clarify a lot of things, too, when you're like. 3 You know, in the future when kids come along. 2 You know, I don't want to be having to work for 8 hours or having to do what, you know, you know, I want to have systems in place so that I'm only doing what I want to be doing. You know, that's. 3 The whole point in financial. 2 Independence. Yeah, The whole point is do what you want to do and. 1 Whenever you want. 2 Yeah, whenever you want, and work on the things you want to work on and you know, and what that comes down to is, is, you know, we talked about should I start a podcast, things like that. 3 Yeah, it's recognizing these. 2 Opportunities and saying no to them because. 3 There are more and more and. 2 More opportunities. You know, the. 3 Bigger career gets or whatever it is, the more you're faced with more. 2 And more of these. Yeah. And so, well. 3 You have to pick only. 2 The good ones you have. And that means saying no to all of the others. And that's a hard thing to do. Yeah, you know, it's a. 3 Hard thing to do with a real estate deal. 2 You know, with all sorts of business opportunities, you know, Hey, do you want to jump on a call with, like, these interesting. 3 Person. 2 Whatever you. 3 Like? You got to really pick which. 2 Things make sense, you know? Yeah. And so for me, that tends to be now focusing on higher leverage things. So that's good. Podcast You're an. 3 Example of. 1 That. Well, I'm honored that you decided to spend some time. 3 Yeah, no, absolutely it for sure. Yeah. Well, I mean you had a great vibe and it always just helps. 2 To have those one to many conversations, you know? I'm grateful that I'm able to speak to a bunch of people at the same time. Yeah. And, and my goal is always to try to provide as much value as I can in those conversations. 1 So what goals are you after these days? 3 So, yeah, I'm so I'm getting more clarity on it, but I still. 2 Suck at it. That's okay. 1 That's okay. And maybe walk us through because you're probably a big reader. So by the end of this shoot, maybe that's a section that will add to some books or book recommendations where you probably I know you mentioned four hour work week and Tim Ferriss Vibrant. Yes, he has the goal. He's got this goal matrix or a B do have. 1 Okay. Yeah. How how am I going to know that I'm that I hit it. I'm curious like how do you structure your goals and how are you structuring them. 3 Not well, not properly. 1 I mean, dude, it's your life. There's no such thing as property, right? Yeah, that's you looking at social media again is creeping out, right? Yeah. 3 Well, that's true. Yeah. The way I look at. 2 It is if I wake up in the morning, what I want to start my day with. Okay, What do I want to do in the afternoon? What? How would I want to spend evening. 3 How does my week look as a whole? Okay, you know, what am I eating? Who am I with? 2 What am I? You know, what kind of fitness am I doing? What kind of work am I doing? What kind of deals am I doing? When am I traveling? How often? My traveling. Okay, spending my time with those are. 3 And so really it's just like. 2 Getting answers to those things and then just saying no to the things that don't fit into that and yes to the things that do. 1 So that's a great kind of like criteria in terms of like questions that you can ask yourself. And I think for the people listening, I would probably be a useful tool for them to ask themselves. 3 I hope so, because it's like, maybe you're right. And I really like how. 2 You said that is, you know, the social media thing could be impacting how I think goal setting should be done because people have these systems. 1 Too. There's no shows. 3 And it's like, what do you what do you want to spend. 2 Your time doing? Yeah, you know, that's the and what do you need in order to be able to spend your time doing those things? You need a certain amount of income. How do you how do you generate that much income? Yeah. And how does it. 3 Now how can you build a business or whatever. 2 It is that fits into that lifestyle that you have? So, yeah, you know, so that's me, you know, structuring my coaching business that way. The deals I do that way, that renovations, all that stuff and just, you know, recognizing and checking in to see if the things I'm you know I've done time audits so that's a thing I do where like you know Hermosa talked about it 15 minutes. 1 Yeah. 2 Every 15 minutes. What am I what do I do? And I've done that for a couple of days. I was actually shocked. I was really happy with how we're spending my time. Most of it was. 3 High level decision making and activities. Yeah, which I was really happy about. But there were a few things in there, you know. 2 Where it's like, I shouldn't be doing these. 3 Things, you. 1 Know, which. And what were some of the ones that you got rid of most recently? 3 Hiring and hiring executive. 2 Assistant was key for that. 3 Yeah, I'll never call it utility company again. 2 I'll never call my phone company again. 3 You know, any time, any time. 2 There are tasks that are repetitive in any way, you know, I can hand that off. 1 Mm. 3 Yeah. I mean and then just you know, making sure that I'm focusing on, you know, if it's on the portfolio side of things. Acquisitions. Yeah. Key turnovers. 1 Turnovers being ten turnovers. 3 To ten and turnovers getting, you know, getting. 2 Rents up, you know, you checked in on Terry, You have to look at the unit turnover before you can get the rent up. Yeah, cash for keys. A lot of those conversations. Yeah. And then yeah, in the coaching business, how do I structure. 3 It such that I can have more one too many. 2 Conversations. So that's going to be maybe. 3 Less one on one more group coaching. 2 So you know, structuring it so that I only work with so many. 3 One on one. 2 People at a time. And, and the group stuff is structured in such a way that it provides great value for people but doesn't take as much of my time. 3 Yeah. 2 So, you know, Yeah. And I'm. 3 Making changes with all. 2 Of these things such that the value is still there, but it doesn't require as much of my time and mental bandwidth. 1 Yeah. Now how did you decide on this coaching being an active income now when you went back when you came back from the trip? Yeah, you mentioned that relationship with active income being changed. You get to Monday and it's like now what? Yeah. So and you're probably around all these wholesalers, you're probably around people doing rentals. You, you probably have a million different things that are, that are possibilities. 1 And like you said, with your ADHD and shiny object syndrome, you probably try 2 million different things. 2 Yeah. I mean. 3 I think that like it's interesting, I can speak to the. 2 Focus concept and it's turned into one of my strengths, but only because it just wasn't for so long. Yeah, And so you that's why I can speak to it because I, I went through it and I've. 3 Resolved it to some degree. Okay. But what was your question? Active. Yeah. So when it comes to my relationship with active income. 2 It was. 3 You know. 2 I had I had outsourced my management. I'd outsource the renovations. Yeah, I was going out for lunch every single day with a friend of mine. I was, you know, and I was actually. 3 I was really enjoying my. 2 Lifestyle. 3 It's actually if I look back to it, still one of the more one of. 2 The better chapters when I was like when it comes to like quote unquote work life balance. Yeah, but I was just enjoying my life, my lifestyle and but I. 3 Was a little bit bored. 2 Really? Yeah. Because, you know, I only worked for maybe a couple of hours a day and I wanted to work. 3 Maybe I was enjoying what I. 2 Was doing, but I wanted to. 3 You know, I wanted to do some things that were a little more. 2 Exciting and whatever. 3 And yeah, coaching, you know, coaching is. 2 A great business model. Of course, it's very low expenses and if people value your time, it pays well. And, and, and so I was like, Well. 3 Why. 2 Don't I get into that? You know, when it came to, you know, I did it, I hosted so many free meetups, free podcasts. I've been post posting free content, my Instagram stuff for five years. At that point I'd never. 3 Charged. 2 Anyone anything. Yeah, for anything. And but I did recognize through doing all of that the value of the different types of conversations you have at paid events versus unpaid events. And as soon as there's a financial filter. 3 People take themselves more. 2 Seriously, they take you more seriously. The more they ask better questions, they take more action because for all the reasons for and so I wanted to. 3 Work with people who felt like, you know, who are really taking themselves. 2 Seriously and we're taking my time seriously. And so adding. 3 That financial filter. And the reality is the higher the financial filter, the more the more more and more. 2 Competent people you end up speaking. 3 With generally, the more people. 2 Who can recognize, you know, the value of of of mentorship and. 3 And the value of. 2 The information. Yeah. 3 And especially and the reason is. 2 Because they plan on using it. 1 100. 2 Percent. 3 So if people aren't really planning oh I'm just, I'm kicking the time, you know, whatever. 1 It is and keeping time. 3 To learn whatever. And it's like, that's cool. But like, when are you taking action? And the people who are are so. 1 How you do? They've already paid for it. They're like, Dude, I need to. 3 Or the number of calls with within the first one or two. 2 Calls, they're like, I've made my you know. 1 I made my money back. 2 Or at 810, 15 or whatever, and they made it back, you know, immediately. 3 Yeah. And the group, the. 2 Group stuff, you know, that's what's nice about it is I can provide. 3 A ton of very. 2 Similar value in a group setting. 3 Which is far more affordable. And people can still. 2 Be like, Oh, that just saved me ten grand, you know. 3 Oh, I'll work with this lender instead of this lender. I'll do this. RYNO This way, Yeah. 2 You know, I'll restructure debts this way. 3 I'll take on this because I'll approach the negotiation on this property this way, Boom. Like, you know, ten grand. 2 Ten grand. I made, you know. 3 All do this deal that this deal can make. 2 Me a hundred grand, you know, perfect. Like so you haven't, you know, and and. 3 The people you work with, people who recognize. 2 That and like. And they do really well. Yeah. Because they know that they're going to take that information and run with it. 1 Yeah. Now, you mentioned that second deal really shifted your perspective. Yeah. You know, the first time you made 25 grand a month. A hundred grand and yeah, two years of salary condensed into four months. But doing it part time. Yeah. Were there any other projects that were like really huge cornerstones. Maybe not financial wins, Like don't really care so much about the home runs, but I do care about the ones that tell you the most. 1 Yeah. And the ones that probably tell you some pivotal lessons. Yeah. 3 For me it was projects. 2 That. 3 Had very. 2 Little renovation necessary. You know, people talk about. 3 Birds. 2 A lot of times a picture and cutting a whole building and doing this massive renovation. Well, the best. 3 Bird deals. 2 Are the ones where you barely have to put any money into it. You just have to get units turned over, get the rents up and refinance it. Maybe you paint the cabinets, things like that. So I've had projects where I've put almost nothing into them and they'll still. 3 Over time there's there's of course been. 2 Market appreciation and things like that. But that, you know, these properties will go up in significant value just by buying great deals. Yeah. And so. 3 You know, a big mindset shift. 2 Me too was when my portfolio got to say ten plus buildings, you know, the mortgage when I start calculating mortgage pay down and things like that, it's it is wild. Yeah. Like, you know, you can you get a decent sized portfolio you can easily get five, ten, 15, 20 grand a month in mortgage pay down, you know, So even if things aren't cash flow and things like that, your net worth is going up by 1020 grand, whatever. 2 I'm Yeah, yeah. And then and then you know, long term appreciation. So of. 3 Course during a market like we've had this last while. 2 Things have dropped significantly. 3 So realistically. 2 You. 1 Know, from 150 grand. Thank you. Yeah. 3 I mean if I'd like my net worth dropped significantly. 2 During this time. Of course it did. Right. Portfolio value dropped significantly. 3 Luckily, during. 2 All that time, I was forcing appreciation on. 3 All these buildings. Yeah. 2 Trying my best to counteract all of it. Right. Doing the occasional acquisition as well. 3 Kind of keeping my portfolio. 2 You know, it's still around like, say 15 million as of now. 3 Yeah, but it's only because I've. 2 Added units and like, like by like, you know, converting units from 1 to 2 units or like, you know, converting a three bed into two one beds or whatever it is and continue to add that value along. 1 The way. How are you looking at your portfolio like and LTV right now? I know one of my friends are like, Dude, I'm trying not to go below 50% LTV across the whole portfolio. 2 Right? Right. 3 Just trying. 2 To get like, Yeah, well. 3 For sure. Like for the longest time I was always. 2 Trying to get to 80% land value on everything. 1 Okay, you know, in terms of refi and you're like, Yeah, let's do you. 3 Pull as much as you can. And generally, honestly. 2 That is what I recommend most investors do. Okay? As long as the deals are doing are good. Yeah. 1 That's a you recommend most investors, but what do you recommend to Kellen? 3 Yeah so I still I still do recommend that but it's only because you know I have private loans. 2 And, and things like that. And so I'd rather have first position loans at a high loan to value and not have private loans. So so that's been you know, I actually in 2022 was recognizing what was happening with interest. 3 Rates and things like that. And what was it? 2 I'm losing track of dates. Okay. Anyway, I. 3 Sold the. 1 Building before things started getting worse. 3 Yeah, when rates started changing and things. 2 Like that, I was like, I can kind. 3 Of see the writing. 2 On the wall here. Yeah, I sold two buildings and, you know, luckily those two buildings had hundreds of thousands. 3 Of equity in, so I was able to just pay off some high interest private loans. 2 Things like that bunch of refinances. 3 And just like. 2 Stabilize the portfolio because I saw kind. 3 Of where things. 2 Were heading and and I was telling people there are public talks I did like on REIA and events like that, telling people this is what this is what I'm doing, stabilizing my portfolio. And, you know, it's definitely been I'm really happy that I did that. You know, as buildings continue to hit the, you know. 3 Renew and hit this new. 2 Rate, you know, cash flow significantly plummets of you. 3 Getting these rents up. 2 And you're you're getting these high interest loans paid off and things like that. 3 And I think that a lot of people don't understand what it looks like to unwind this such. 2 Significant amounts of private debt. I think people are now. 3 Understanding what that's like. 2 But I've been talking about this for a while and I hope. 3 And I know some people did listen. Some of my coaching students. 2 Were like, I'm. 3 Going to sell one or two buildings as well. 2 And pay off a. 3 Bunch of loans or just like get, you know, even just collect. 2 A bunch of cash right now. It's such an interesting time when it comes like. 3 There's some pretty great deals out there. 2 Yeah, but you have to have liquidity and. 3 Most people just don't have the liquidity. 2 And the reason is because financing is. 3 More difficult. 2 Than ever. You know, down payments have to be larger. Loan values are lower on the refi. Yeah, but if you can find yourself in a position of liquidity in any way, this is such an interesting time to take take on deals. You know, they're one 200,000 less than they used to be. Yeah. In London and all around. 3 All over. 1 So, yeah. So what were your thoughts around JV partners? Man? Your 88 units. No. JV partner. Yeah. Everybody's like, raise financing. Yeah, partner with people. 3 So I still really like. 2 The idea of not of continuing to scale my portfolio with old partners. It's interesting because my, my coach actually has been saying, you know, hey. 3 This might be something to. 2 Think about. It's not a thing you have to do, but like. 3 You know, it's not something that maybe write off entirely for where I am at my stage. And a part of the reason is I'm focusing on. 2 Lifestyle design for myself. Now, part of that means having money for myself. And as a BR investor, you tend to always be cash poor because as soon as you get money, reinvest, of course. 3 So you know. 2 What do you do? How do you keep in your pocket? 3 Well, you either stop buying or you buy slower. 2 Or maybe use other people's. 3 Money. And it's not something I'm planning on doing at this stage still. But I think that. 2 I think that I mean, it has its place. 3 I still recommend people. 2 For the most part, try to do everything they can on their own, and it is still what I'm planning. 3 On doing. I think it has. 2 Its place though. Yeah. 3 The reality is now is more now is one of the more interesting. 2 Times to take on joint. 3 Venture partners. Yeah because debt is so expensive, so paying high interest for. 2 Private loans, things like that makes it harder. Whereas with your part when you partner with people, you're not paying the interest. Yeah, but finding. 3 Partners right now is also. 2 Going to be a lot more difficult for people than it ever would have been, which ties back into the value of social media. 3 Yeah. So if I. 2 Was to bring in bring on joint venture partners of the stage, I know that there'd be people that would be interested. I think it's actually interesting. I never talk about flips. It's not something that I it's just not my, my area of expertise. I'm all about long term buy and holds. But I do think. 3 Joint venture partnerships, coupled with. 2 Flipping right now is a particularly interesting approach because, you know, you don't have to pay the interest to borrow the money to do. 3 The deal, which. 2 Holding costs would be significantly higher on a flip. And if you can find people who have a significant amount of money to take on flips, I think it could be interesting. 3 You know, especially this. 2 Time of year, late 2023, if you buy something, maybe interest rates drop at some point in 2024. You could sell in the spring. 3 Or fall, the spring or summer. 2 You know, this. 1 Will probably drop by spring. 2 So yeah. So I. 3 Think you guys. 1 Are too late. 3 Yeah, too late. Well, let me know if I was right. 1 I mean, only time will tell, right? Yeah. Let's see. It's going to be cool to revisit this. You know, maybe we'll do. We'll make it like, a caveat where we jump in and see, like, yeah, hold on. 3 So wrong rates are 10% now. Yeah, I mean, this is, this is a big part of why I. 2 Haven't. 3 Done flips. 2 Is because and I've done some whole tales where I buy and sell something immediately. 3 But I really. 2 Like that with long term buy and. 3 Holds, if things don't go well, you just. 2 Hold, you know, for the most part as long as you're not too high leverage. Yeah, so I like that concept. It's lower mental bandwidth. I don't need to constantly keep an eye on every fluctuation in the market and think that I can just do my thing. 1 Yeah, No One you mentioned, by the way, do you remember the first time you hit 100 grand in a month? I mean, it's probably within a month, especially in real estate, because you might be just looking at the cash flow, but it's like, Wait, if I refinance, like. 3 I may not, you know, it's it's there's no way to answer that, really, because. 2 There's plenty of buildings where they've gone up 100. 3 200 and rent. I don't know. 2 When exactly all these things happened. But yeah, I mean, it's happened many, many times at this point. You know. 3 Probably yeah, probably within within the first. 2 Two years of investing though, like I would say that. 3 There were there were. 2 Some deals where I added a ton of value really quickly, you know, bought it significantly in a market value and then forced depreciation quickly. Now I'm making that every month, like in gross income. But of course I never it's not going up like that every month. Yeah, but like yeah. 3 Just under a hundred or so of gross. 2 Rental income should be well over that. 3 In in maybe in some months. 2 Right now I have an eight plex that's vacant so jeez once I. 3 Once I. 2 Fill that and make that alone, I'll make 12 grand a. 1 Month. And why is it was it just like just timing as of where you are in the cycle right now, Why? It was it was a vacant area. 3 So that's been my lemon in my portfolio, this building. Yeah. So, so I bought that. 2 And you know, it's been a long journey of trying to get. 3 Vacancies in this building. 2 Luckily, I have enough other things on the go that it's something I'm chugging along. 3 With the. 2 Permit application with the city have been a huge hassle. 1 Why would each unit in journalism. 3 We're going to agree with. So yeah I. 2 Am going to I am going to do. 3 Like we're going to do. 2 Significant renovations where we changed the layout to the building. I mean, you know, like, so like. 1 Why after you just said, Ma'am, I'm trying to I'm trying to just. 3 This one needs. 2 It. 3 The the every unit. 2 The it's like this tiny little shower stall. Yeah. 3 All of the kitchens. 2 Are old and crappy. 3 None of the walls are insulated. 1 And you knew that when you bought it, though. 3 Yeah. Yeah. And I paid 700. 2 Grand for it. It's an eight plex. And even now, that would be a great price. 3 Yeah. 1 What? So what's the price per unit in London at this time? 2023. 3 Like between 150. 2 And 200. A unique thing. I mean some people probably would argue more, but I think that's. 1 What's the designer price. 2 Look. 3 Like. Like it depends on the size of building. Well, let's say 150 unit, it becomes interesting I bought a triplex recently for for 25. 1 Okay. 2 So I don't even know what that is per unit, but not. 1 Much less than 200. 3 Yeah. Oh yeah. Slightly less than one. 2 Yeah. Whatever that is. 1 But just under 150 I think. 2 Yeah. But yeah. 1 So yeah. So the lemon. 3 Yeah. The lemon. Yeah. So it needs, it needs. 2 It and all of the units, you know, I can add bedrooms. So like a lot of the one vessel turned into two beds. 3 Because I can take advantage of the kitchen, like right now they have dining rooms. 2 Well, let's make that a bedroom. Do an open concept kitchen, living room. 3 So a bunch of them. 2 Will add a significant amount of like, you know, the rents would be dramatically different by doing this renovation. 3 And it will be. 2 You know, three, four and $1,000 rental. Yeah. Which sucks during a time like this to be doing that. But yeah. 3 I'm looking into construction financing. Okay. I'm also going to build. 2 A 12 plex more than likely. So there's another eight on the. 1 Same unit in the same building. 2 A different a new development. Oh no. Yeah. 1 It's going to be your first new house. 3 Yeah, my first development ever. Wow. 1 Yeah. Is that, is that if we're looking into the crystal ball, is that what you think? I guess we'll see how this experience goes. 3 Like, my. Like we're putting the. 2 Application in with the city. I've. We're getting drawings done right now, so it's, you know, I'm, it's. 3 It's been something I'm just slowly. 2 Like it's simmering because I've enough other things on the go but yeah I'm getting. 1 Rocket League and. 3 Rocket League. 2 Yeah. I got killed in a cab. 3 Yeah. 1 Yeah, yeah. That's how I. 3 Know. Yeah. This, this 12 Lexus. It should be interesting. I mean, now there's like. 2 Like a lot of benefits with t the federal and provincial government rule changes and stuff. So, yeah, that'll save hundreds of thousands potentially for the build. So I'm waiting to see how that all goes. I think the development is going to become a particularly interesting thing for people to consider in the coming years. 1 While. 2 Building like new builds and infill. 3 For people. 1 Or for. 3 You for people. 2 Got it. Yeah, for me. But but I say it for people because I think the government rules are going to line up with it. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we start to see a lot of strong incentives for people to build. Yeah, and and new builds aren't under rent control. So in Ontario you can increase the rent by as much as you want. 2 If the building was built after I forget, what. 1 2018 I think it is. 2 Yeah, yeah. November 2018 or something. 1 Something along those lines. Yeah. That's so exciting. Yeah. I appreciate you taking the time to share, you know, these different chapters of life, these different flavors, these different seasonings that you got. 3 For. 1 Sure that made Kelly and Callan. 3 I appreciate, appreciate coming to our store and. 2 Setting all this. 1 Oh, no. I said it to to play around with your set up after and see how we could make it look a little more. 3 Yeah. If my videos start looking looking a lot better. Yeah. 1 Thanks for that, guys. And if the show gets a little spicier, if my portfolio spices up. Yeah, I think so. You know, you mentioned a lot about this whole lifestyle by design at this. And look, I'm not going to hold you prisoner to your own words, Right. And I recognize the things that you say right now might be different by tomorrow. 1 Yeah. But as of as of now and this at this current moment with where you're at, what is that lifestyle look like? You labeled a bunch of questions. What I want my morning afternoon evening nighttime to look like Yeah that maybe that plus the vacation's like what do you want those to look like these days. 3 I'm starting to I'm starting to build the lifestyle I want already. 2 Sort of like I realized with ADHD how important routine ends up being so and so. 3 You no long journey. 2 Yeah, exactly. 3 So no longer. 2 Is the decision I'm trying to make what I eat less of a decision making process, you know? So like I go to the gym now Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 10 a.m.. Okay. You know, I'm going to eat overnight oats, you know, most most days. 3 And, you know, I'm going. 2 To eat my first meal at noon most days, Like I'm going to have. 3 A pretty typical like structure. 2 But then. 3 Yeah, I want to be able to work. 2 Like maybe 2 to 4 hours a day type of thing. With the coaching, I want it to be like. 3 Fewer want like, you know, like a limited number of one on one people, you know, group calls with as many. 2 People as makes sense but. 3 Not super frequently. 2 So that you know I'm enjoying the process. Yeah and that it's not a grind in any way. You know that social media blackout really helped me to come back to these things more intentionally. 3 And then I want it to just be, you know, imagine. 2 Not like imagine in some years. I have you know, we have kids and we have like we want to travel. We want to do these things. I want to make sure my business is all. 3 You know, it. 2 Already sort of is. But I want to make I want to make sure that it all lines up so that I'm not taking it's not taking away from the things I enjoy. 1 Yeah, yeah. But play on this taboo for a second. All millennials can't buy houses. You're a millennial, right? 3 You know what's I think Gen Z are going to have a harder time, right? 1 Yeah, I think that's right. And you're one of my. One of my mentors, as did you think your your $50,000 problems, your $100,000 your problem. Talk to someone. $1 million problems. Yeah. And it's like, oh yeah, millennials can't buy houses. You're like you say millennials. Gen Z. 2 Yeah. 3 Gen Z. 2 A more even harder time, I'd say. But yeah, I mean. 3 Like if you're looking to take on your first property, the structure I. 2 Recommend would be 5% down, move. 3 Into a duplex or 10% down on a triplex or four plex. You know, 5% is. 2 Going to be like, say it's a 500. 3 Thousand. I mean, there'd be less, but like it'd be like 20 grand. 2 You know. 3 That's survivable for, for a decent number of people if they live frugally. So live frugally. Yeah. Save up a five or 10%. 2 Down payment on a multi-unit building. Yeah. You know, if your town's too expensive, consider moving to some other town. You know, like, moving is a big deal, but so is, you know, not be able to make progress in your finances and your career. You know, find a. 3 Remote job, work somewhere, live somewhere a little more affordable. Yeah. 2 Buy a buy a multi-unit. 3 Building, live in one. 2 Unit, rent the others. 3 And then add value to building. Do the renos yourself. Maybe the first one or two. Yeah. And use a purchase plus improvements mortgage. 2 So that's where you can get your renovation money back from the bank. You know if you're qualifying ability isn't isn't great with the bank we'll consider, you know doing what you can in your career to get your income up for qualifying ability. Yeah maybe consider buying in a less expensive town as well and maybe couple it with other forms of active income that you can you can add on top of it to help your debt service ratios. 3 But just try to get in, try to get. 2 That first one so you can get a. 3 Feel for what this is like to be as a landlord, to be a landlord. 2 We have the. 3 Purchase plus improvements. 2 Mortgage is key to get your money back for more renovations. You can couple it as well with the home buyers plan. So if you have money in RSP, you can pull money out of the RSP tax free. Yeah. And pay it back very slowly over like a 20 year period or something like that. Yeah, that would be the way to kind of get into things. 1 This is crazy how many tools there are. Yeah. 3 Yeah. The idea is to stack. 2 Them as well. 3 The more of these things you can apply, the more you know. A lot of people these days are also partnering with family members and things like that. You know, like if you can. 2 Do it yourself, try to do it yourself. But I definitely have, you know, admiration for those who are like partnering. 3 With their brother or sister or uncle or parents or whatever to try. 2 To get this process. 3 Rolling. 2 Yeah, I think that people these days have really forgotten what it's like to, like, have their tribe have their village, you know, and like, you know, you know. 3 Combine your wealth. 2 And do things together. And that's really rare these days. So I think it's really cool that people do that. 1 What what unique trait or skill do you think it is that makes Cullen? Cullen Did you different? When did you decide? That's a good question. I was in I was in college for student action for some tech company with five, five countries in like two weeks. 2 Wow. 1 Wow. A project. I didn't end up going to two of them because they were in a completely different time zone. Yeah, but I did all the ones on this hemisphere here or this half of the world. And so I'm in the hotel lobby and I end up going to lunch or dinner with this like 60 something year old Whitey. 1 And he's like, and I don't I told him, I said, Yeah, let's go for dinner. What do you what are you doing? Like, we're both just in, you know, the bar solo. Like, what do you say we go for dinner and he's like, No, at first, right? And then I start talking and he's like, Oh, you're saying some interesting stuff. 1 Like, Who is this? 2 Yeah, Yeah. 1 And then he's like, You know, my spiritual guide says, I should be more open and like, when, when else am I going to have the opportunity to sit with a 30 year old black guy? Right? And like, I'm like, dude, when also I'm going to sit with a 65 year old white. 2 Yeah, Yeah. And then who is this guy? This was a no no. 3 I mean, just like he was a tech guy or a service guy. 1 He was a guy who's been doing tech sales for. Yeah. So he lives in Laguna Beach. 3 Oh, yeah, I've been there. Yeah. 1 You've been never going to be. Yeah. 3 In that. 1 Trip. Oh, no way. Yeah. 3 Those are van parked there. 1 Those multimillion dollar homes along the wall. 3 Yeah, we walked along those. 1 Yeah, that's where he's at. 3 We probably walked right by. 1 Probably. But I wasn't there, so we were in San Jose. Yeah, Yeah, right near San Fran. And so we go to, we go to a we go to dinner, right? And he's like, Dude, when did you realize you're different? And I'm like, I'm just like everybody else. And he's like, No, you're not. 3 I agree. 1 And I'm like. 3 No, I agree. 2 I, I, I thought. 3 It was really interesting, like. 2 Your personality and the way that you when we chatted, I was like. 3 Yeah, there's something, there's something there. 1 Like, Yeah. 2 I. 1 Appreciate that. So I might go, Let's do this. Yeah. Because like, we won't have this conversation over Zoom and no, yeah, customize. We're going to customize your room after this. Yeah, but I already know what to do. It's light on the other side, camera on the other switch, the angle, boom it up, and then. 2 Okay, good. That's what I need. 3 The mentorship. 1 Right now. Your time? 3 Yeah. I'm trying to figure this out myself. It's like, get something to do with me. Okay? 1 Yeah. So. Yeah. When did you realize or before you. Yeah. When did you realize you were different? 3 I I'm not sure. 2 That I ever did. Yeah. Yeah, I don't. I'm not sure that. All right. 1 Well, if you need to realize now, I'm letting you know I. 2 Appreciate it. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know. I've never really thought of it as different. Um, like that. Yeah, but, I mean, I know that the actions I've taken have been different from others. 1 And what. What are those? What are those key, like, traits and decisions that you made? The past, maybe habits that you think may Kaelin Kaelin like. 3 Yeah. So, so like some of the like the. 2 Key success factors or whatever the things that have helped me along the way were like asking a lot of really good questions. Yeah, that's been like and that means putting your ego to the side and saying like, I don't understand this. What you know. 3 What's how does. 2 Work, you know, and not pretending like I know, which I can't believe that's the default setting of a lot of people crazy. It's like I don't know. Can you tell me, you. 3 Know, and people love to tell you things. So like especially. 1 If they saw that. Yes, they did message like. 3 Yeah, exactly. And people love to tell you about themselves or what they know and share information. 2 So, yeah, you know, just. 3 Asking asking good questions, which means admitting what you don't know and just, you know, so every time I go to meet ups and things like that. 2 Or any, I would just say. 3 What am I. 2 Stuck on right now? What's stopping me from moving to the next step? 3 Okay, well, I don't know. 2 I don't feel comfortable with this or I don't know how to approach this. Well, I tell everyone that at that event and then I'd I'd get all of those. 3 People. 2 And I'd gathered what they told me and say, well, it sounds. 3 Like this is what I should do. Mm. 2 And then I'd head that direction. Huh. 1 That's a useful approach. 3 Yeah. No. Yeah, no problem. Yeah, I just found myself. 2 By default doing that. It wasn't an intentional thing. 3 Until it was until I realized. 2 That's what I do. 1 And I'm like, Oh, dude, mentorship, right? Like, there's so many people now that are going to be like, Oh, should I should, I should adopt that goal setting framework. Yeah, I should adopt that. Oh, when I'm in public, this is how I should. Yes. 3 Questions and unofficial mentorship as well, right. Like of course hiring, hiring. 2 Mentors and coaches can be really helpful. But I mean also just yeah, finding people in your life who are happy to have you mentors for free is amazing, right? 3 Yeah. Just make sure there are people who have. 2 Done things you want to. 3 Do. Yeah. 2 No, you don't want to ask people questions if they don't know if they haven't done it themselves. 1 Yeah, and it's tough, but it's time to decide what you want to do if you're still, you know, intoxicated by the social media. 3 Yeah, but you can find inspiring people. Yeah. I think that's a big thing that like you know, younger people struggle with in general is they'll see success. 2 From other. 3 People or whatever and they'll be like. 2 Well, like. 3 They just immediately look for reasons. 2 Excuses why they got. 3 There or whatever. And sure, maybe some of those reasons are there. 2 Maybe their parents had money or whatever it was. Yeah, cool. But like. 3 There's plenty of people. 2 Who did find a way to make things happen. And I'd. 3 I really prefer. 2 To view these things. 3 As inspirational. 2 And I think that that is a mindset shift people have to make at some point because that's the way that you learn is by saying, Man, this person did some I didn't do and I want to know what they did. And I want to do it too. 3 Because a lot of these things are just. 2 You can just copy people. 3 Yeah, you know what? How do you build a portfolio? It's a system. You just follow. 2 The system, you know, you just copy. It's not it's not rocket science. It's not easy, but it's not. 1 Like it's not rocket. 3 Science. Yes. 1 Yes. Dude, building a rocket is ten times harder. 3 Yeah. Oh, yeah. Way more than ten. Building a portfolio, honestly, is way easier than starting a business. 2 Yeah. You know, even like, you know, trying. 3 To make money. 2 Off a coffee shop would be way harder than trying to make money building a real estate, probably, in my opinion. 3 100%. 1 I mean, take it from the man who's done it, right? So what are. 3 The. I've never built a coffee shop, so who knows? 1 I Don't think. 3 The margins are great. Yeah, it's. 1 It's tough, man. Imagine having to sell like 2000 units just to make rent, you know? And it's like, Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah. So what do you what are the books that made Kaplan Kaplan Books and lessons, You know, it's like. 3 So I'll rhyme a bunch of but like kind of. 1 Huge, not just a book title, but like the book and why. 2 Okay. 3 And not to rhyme. 2 As many as then. 1 Yeah, you know what I mean? That's okay. 3 I'll, I'll run some off and then I'll. 2 Tell you my favorite so and why. 3 So. Yeah. 2 So Ryan Holiday is one of my absolute favorite authors with all the books on Stoicism. So he did Ego is the Enemy. Stillness is the key. And he the discipline is destiny, which I haven't actually read. 1 Do you string those titles together? It sounds like it could be like a mantra for life. 2 It's it is. He actually has them tattooed on himself. 3 But it's not like it's not like. 2 It's not ego. It's he did this because they're like Marcus really is. And some of these like, you know, like philosophers and stuff and, and and so he put these on him because they're time tested, you know, they work, they apply no matter what time timeline you're in. But yeah, these are monsters you can live off of and they are my mantras actually have and I know I'm going on a tangent, but I have a list of like core philosophies. 1 Okay to share it with. Yeah, that's the purpose of conversation. Do they run in whatever? Yeah. 3 Yeah, I know it. 2 Sounds scatterbrained, but. 3 There's a. 1 Risk to move and then there's one to ADHD. 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I got an ADHD diagnosis. 2 It was like maybe a year ago or. 3 Six months ago and 32 or 33 years old and. 1 Who cares that? What are you going to do about it? Yeah, I'm a ADHD way. 3 Yeah. Yeah. So I have, I have like a list of core philosophies. I don't I'd have to pull some of them up, but I. 2 Know like, of course, like. 3 The ones. 2 Like ego is the enemy. Stillness is the key here are really good ones. Say no to almost everything because one of the one, like Warren Buffett said that Steve Jobs said something very similar. I've got. 3 I've got two. 2 Lists that have to. 3 Pull them all up. But like, these are things. 2 That I put on my lockscreen of my phone and on my back on my phone that I'd see every. 1 Day. That's it. Right now. 2 I have. 3 New ones that I'm trying to drill in, Right. 1 Which is a mountain, you know. 2 Yeah. 3 Yeah. Right now, because I, I reread the book. 2 Stillness is the key the third time recently. 1 So that's the one for you. That's like it's. 3 Been the. 2 One recently. Okay. Because I need to find more stillness and it's been something I've. Yeah, So that's the thing I'm trying to drill in. So I read it for the third time and now I'm like, Oh, okay, yeah, it all clicked finally. You know, it's crazy. 1 I saw this thing like years ago and it said, like, your relationship with books will change as you read them more. And it's like the first time you read it, It's just like you're you're just getting a taste of it. Yeah. The second time, you're how you're on time. Okay, You're fine. Okay? The second time you read it, you're actually understanding it. 1 And the third time that you're reading, you're having a conversation with. Yeah. And I was like. 2 Whoa, Yeah. Interesting. I like that. Yeah. 3 Yeah. And I think that you can sometimes have a conversation. 2 With it the first time. If it's like if you have. 3 Something, you can really. I think the reason is the first time you read a book, you're trying to. 2 Understand what they're talking about. And then. 3 Some point you start to try to figure out how you. 2 Can apply this to your life. 3 But I read this the physical book. 2 For the first time. This was the third time I read it the first time. 3 Physical. 2 Reading it. And I thought it was I thought it made sense for a book like Stillness is the key to sit down and read a real book and not be distracted and not multitask. And so, yeah, so anyway, it all clicked for me. And so right now I have like stillness. I just put stillness. I said, Take your time, Take your time, because I just don't take my time with things. 2 It, it. 1 Just. 2 It's Yeah, yeah, exactly. 3 So yeah, take, take my time. 2 It's okay to just take my time. Do this slowly. Just be consistent. 3 You know, right now I put this literally. 2 On my phone. As of yesterday, I was driving home. When I drive, I tend to not have, like any music or anything on. I just kind of feel that's a moment for stillness. Yeah. Finally have. Right. And when you're on a plane, that's when a lot of people start to really think right, first time, they don't have Internet, they don't have anything to really distract them very well and they finally are alone with their thoughts. 2 The other time is right before bed, you know, which is like a terrible time to finally give yourself time to think. Yeah, But anyways. 3 So I just wrote this down yesterday. This isn't something I read. 2 Anywhere, but it's like Kelly. 1 And James Quotable right. 3 Here. Yeah, I was just right. Like, you know, if you have a task that feels like a wall, so, like with ADHD and a lot of people, I'm sure you just sometimes there are certain passages like, man, like this thing has been on my list for months. 2 I just can't get myself, I think, like. 3 I'm going to try this. I don't know if it'll work, but I know that it's my obstacle, right? 2 And that therefore maybe it's the way it's the thing I need to do. But so like, slow down. 3 Push through. 2 And just, like, shatter that obstacle and you'll feel. 3 Lot better. I know that I've done that with certain things that have been on my list forever. When I finally get through. 2 It, I feel a massive weight off my. 3 Shoulders. Yeah. 1 What was the obstacle that made you put out there? 3 Honestly, right now it's creating a. 2 Bookkeeping. 3 System like that. That's a hell of an obstacle for me. Yeah, I hate it. And I think most. 2 Entrepreneurs are pretty bad at. 3 It. Yeah. So having a proper bookkeeping system, not to say I don't have anything, but it could be a lot better. 1 Yeah, I just didn't understand. 2 So that was one that I'm like, I need to do this. Yeah, there's a few others, but yeah, yeah. So anyways, so I have a bunch of core philosophies. I've gotten them. 3 From a lot of. 2 These books. 3 And from. 2 Just life that the. 1 Books that make. 3 Yeah. So, know, I really loved, I did really like four hour work week, some of the like a bunch of the. 2 Concepts in it. 3 There's a book called Blue Fishing I really like as well. 2 Which not a lot people talk about, but it's a cool it's like. 3 One of the lines from it though, is don't be easy to. 2 Understand, be impossible. 3 To misunderstand. 2 Which I thought was really great when it came to like communicating with. 3 Contractors, communicating. 2 With like other investors, whatever it is, you know. 3 Your relationships just be very clear. 2 About you want what you want with. 3 Contractors you have to. 2 Be because otherwise it would just be done wrong. Yeah. And so that ties in with another book called called them Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willing. So that's an amazing book. That's what I get all my students to read initially because like, you know, hey, coaching is here to. 3 Learn from me. 2 But at the end of the day, you have to do everything you know, You have to take all the action. 3 So you know everything is your fault whether. 2 It's, you know, a win or a loss is your fault. It's the way of you view everything. Actually, you talked about it's interesting. You talked about this old white guy, I guess the tech guy who who do. 1 Two white guys taught me a lot. 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1 I'll go. Really? 3 But but like, the the the idea of, like, being more spiritual. 2 Or whatever, like I'm not. 3 Particularly spiritual person, but I really like the. 2 Book. 3 The Alchemist Have you ever read it? So yeah, that's the good omen. Yeah. So that might have. 1 In his good omen. Right. 3 It's a really good. 1 I favorite book really read like six. 3 Times this. I've only read it twice, maybe three times. I'm going to read it many times. Yeah. Have you read the Pilgrimage or. 1 I have it? I haven't read it, though. 3 No, I don't want to. I don't want to. 2 Like I really like the Alchemist and I really. 3 I'm trying to. 2 Push to get through the pilgrimage I. 1 Like. Are all walls meant to run through? 2 No, I agree. And this isn't an obstacle or worth in my opinion. 3 Maybe you'll enjoy it, but I mean, I think I really like the Alchemist because it was a fiction book. Yeah. And this, I think, is him legitimately. 2 Like going on his. 3 Own journey. 2 And I think he believes I don't know. 3 And I have I have maybe I'm maybe listeners are like you completely understand this but like it's it's the author of The Alchemist. 2 Is going on a journey. It's him Paulo like on it you know, in other countries and stuff and doing his thing and it's like. 3 Super like he's doing all these crazy things. And I'm like, Ze, believe this. I don't really. 2 Understand. Yeah. Anyway. 3 Not I'm not a huge fan it. 2 I'm on the like the last few pages of it right now. 1 Okay. Okay. 2 Thank God. The Alchemist. 1 Pool fishing. Extreme ownership. Yeah. Just the stillness. 3 Yeah. 1 Four hour workweek and the others. 3 There's a bunch more and just can't think of any. 1 That's okay. 3 Yeah, those are. Those are some of my. 2 Favorites as of now. 1 And not. Look, it might change tomorrow. Yeah, but that's what we got. 3 I'm a huge fan right now of physical books. 2 And that guy was doing a. 3 Ton of audio books, and I. 2 Think that's great. 3 You know, it was great if driving all that stuff. Yeah. 2 And working or whatever. But when it comes to like one of the recent things I changed is like the thing. 3 Everyone says, which is don't go on your phone before bed. We all know you shouldn't. Everyone does it anyway. 2 And I was like, That's an obstacle that I need to address. 3 Okay, so now before bed. 2 Well, an hour before bed or so. 3 Let's say even half an hour. 2 Before bed, I. 3 Put my phone in my office to charge. 2 I got a book and I read in bed before I go to sleep. And it's been a game changer because I'm having a moment of stillness. I'm I'm away from my phone. I'm able to, like, calm my mind down before I sleep. I sleep better, which has all of the consequences. Helps you in the. 3 Gym, helps your relationship. 2 You're more patient here. It helps everything. Okay, So like. 3 Just put the phone in another. 2 Room half hour before bed and go read a book. 3 20, even 10 minutes before bed. 2 You know, whatever. Just something to start it. 1 Don't fall asleep to a screen. 2 Exactly. It's brutal. Yeah. And I feel. 3 Like within, like two. 2 Or three days, I was like. I've. I don't even want to anymore. Wow. 3 So similar to the social media. 2 Blackout, it. 3 Feels like this wall until you. 2 Do it. And then you're like, that wasn't that bad. Yeah. 1 Yeah. 2 So and the nice thing about it is, by by definition, you also don't wake up with your phone. 3 Because it's not in the room. So within the first, you know, you want to protect. 2 The first hour of the day, talks about it. And stillness is the key because that's when you wake up with a natural stillness. You know, you're thinking about things that you wouldn't otherwise think about when you're constantly being distracted and pulled in different directions. You wake up and you're with your thoughts. And so not. 3 Immediately reaching for your phone because. 2 It's not there helps. Yeah. And yeah, so. 3 Even just the first ten. 2 Minutes of the day, a phone, just something, you know, before you go into the office and grab it makes a big difference. And you might find that. 3 Maybe the first half hour, 45 minutes, you don't even want to look at it because you know there's going to be bunch. 2 Of bullshit. Yeah, You know, so you. 3 Go for a walk instead, maybe, or whatever, you know. 1 Interesting. Yeah. Did it it interesting perspectives, man. I really appreciate you taking the time to share that with us. Now, you've you've been so gracious with your time today, you know, and and shared some of your perspective, some of your beliefs, some of the things that you're actively doing, some of the things that you might be doing, some of the things that you have done. 1 Right. How can we how can we help you? You know. 3 I've always struggled to answer that question. I think that people who are and this isn't for you guys, but for people who are asking. 2 That question to other. 3 Folks. Yeah. The goal is. 2 To identify ways that you can help them and that's what you've already done, which is great. Hey, can I help you out with your video? Set up things like that. But a lot of people are like, I've had people. Can I work for you? Can I like. 3 I'll work for free, I'll do whatever I like. And I'm like, I don't know. 2 What you do. Yeah. 3 So I think what people need to do. 1 Yeah. 3 They need to get to know the person, figure out how they can help them and present. 2 Them with that. I'll do this for you. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the way to approach that, I think, because I've never had an answer for people when they ask me that because. 3 You know. Yeah, it's a hard question. 1 Because one audience man just let them know where to find me. 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, so I'm on, yeah. 2 Kevin James on Instagram. Kevin James. Okay, that's where I like my mentorship stuff is. But you know, all of my podcast, guest appearances, things like that, I'll link to like. 3 This once it's released. 2 On my. 3 Website as well. And yeah, there's tons. 2 Of free content to go through. So yeah. 1 One man, thank you so much. 3 Yeah, absolutely. 1 Like, likewise. So that wraps up another episode of 100 Ways to Make 100 K. We are here all the way in London, Ontario with, none other than Kevin James. I hope you enjoyed this episode and we will see you on the next one piece.