Moving Towards Secure Attachment with Dr. Morgan Anderson | Attachment Theory Expert

Dr. Morgan Anderson, Clinical Psychologist, Attachment Theory Expert, Author, and host of the top-rated podcast: Let’s Get Vulnerable. With over 42K Instagram followers, 2M+ podcast downloads, and a best-selling new book, Love Magnet Dr. 


We talk about each attachment style, best first dates, green/red/yellow flags in dating, long term relationships + conflict navigation, and morning alignment.

Morgan is a powerful voice for women’s healing and a thought leader in the relationship space. She’s a relationship coach, attachment theory expert, and creator of the E.S.L. Relationship Method. Her mission is to help women get off the dating rollercoaster, raise their self-worth, and attract the healthy relationship they’ve always wanted. She created the Empowered.Secure.Loved Program because she knew women needed a clear path to secure attachment and love that lasts. With the science of attachment theory, data from hundreds of clients, and her own experiences she created a program that transforms you from lonely, to loved.

Links:

Love Magnet Book

Dr. Morgan's website

Instagram

Let's Get Vulnerable Podcast

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Transcript

Claire Calfo (00:00.886)
Hello everyone and welcome back to what your mom forgot to tell you. Today we have on a very special guest, Dr. Morgan Anderson. She's a clinical psychologist, attachment theory expert, author, and also a host of a top rated podcast. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you.

Dr Morgan (00:18.5)
Thank you for having me. Looking forward to our conversation. Yes. I know. I love it.

Claire Calfo (00:22.366)
Yeah, me too. Happy Friday. Also, I know we're recording on a Friday, so it's always fun to do episodes. The weekend's almost here. Yeah, we love it. So yeah, before we dive into any deep dives on some of your expertise areas, I would love to just get a quick background on you and how you got into the space. You're a powerful voice for women's healing and kind of a thought leader in the relationship space and it's such an interesting place to be. So would love a quick background.

Dr Morgan (00:50.414)
Yeah, I knew from a young age that I wanted to be a psychologist, like so many people that go towards that field. I did experience early childhood trauma. I lost my mom at a young age and I just grew up really quickly. Yeah. So I knew I wanted to be in clinical psychology, but then in terms of relationships, it wasn't until my second year of graduate school,

Claire Calfo (01:03.874)
I'm sorry.

Dr Morgan (01:20.728)
terrible dates and I was I was experiencing all the bad relationships you know dumpster fire breakup after breakup and in the second year of grad school I actually found myself dating a narcissist for about a year and a half and yeah it was after that breakup I was at my lowest point hit rock bottom

Claire Calfo (01:33.742)
Mm-hmm. Wow.

Dr Morgan (01:43.154)
And I just had this moment of, okay, you can keep doing this again and again, or you can choose differently. You can decide to heal and you can learn how do you have a healthy relationship. So after that, I threw myself into attachment theory research.

Dr Morgan (02:00.202)
did my own healing. And then here we are today. I've helped over 450 women and have the Empowered Secure Love program. And I'm in a wonderful relationship of two plus years. And I get to, yeah, I get to just help women who maybe like me, they never experienced a healthy relationship before.

Claire Calfo (02:02.07)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (02:15.327)
Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

Claire Calfo (02:24.778)
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. And with relationships too, it's so easy to track progress sometimes with that, because you know, you can tell the difference like in your body, I think, of like, okay, is this healthy or not? Once you understand sort of the background and understand attachment theory, which you're probably providing the teachings of. So that's amazing.

Dr Morgan (02:46.829)
Yeah, I feel like it's the it's the missing piece to the dating puzzle. Once you understand attachment theory, and then you can apply it to your dating life. It just really, really helps you. So yeah, I love teaching people how to actually understand it and apply it.

Claire Calfo (02:51.968)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (03:05.658)
Yeah, yeah. I actually read the book, the attachment theory book, but I feel like I never got really good examples on how to apply it like you're saying. So I'd love to do a deep dive just on attachment theory to start out and kind of like have you explain that and then just yeah maybe go into those details and expert solutions in a way.

Dr Morgan (03:28.375)
Yeah, absolutely. And attached by Amir Levine is a great book. And it also was one of the things that inspired me to write my book that came out called Love Magnet, because I saw that gap that you're talking about where it's like, Oh, how do we actually apply it? And then the other thing is I wanted to teach people that you can move towards secure attachment no matter what your current style is.

Claire Calfo (03:33.918)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Claire Calfo (03:46.243)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (03:52.332)
Yeah.

Dr Morgan (03:55.748)
Facebook, he kind of says, oh, your attachment style is your attachment style. But before we go into this, I just want people to know, like, no matter where you are currently, you can move towards secure attachment.

Claire Calfo (04:03.48)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (04:06.47)
Yeah, and I think that's what I kind of found that I disagreed with in the book as well. Like I was like, I feel like I was anxious and now maybe more secure. So I love that you're saying that.

Dr Morgan (04:16.111)
Yes, yes, yes, yes. So attachment theory for your audience if they haven't heard about it. The way I like to break it down in the most simplest form is the understanding of why you do what you do in relationships and why you're attracted to the people that you're attracted to.

Claire Calfo (04:21.005)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (04:32.61)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (04:42.244)
relationships and our ways of being our behaviors our thoughts our emotions within those relationships All all of us have different ways of being in a different attachment style makeup that determines how we go about Relationships and this is completely unconscious and compulsive Until we make it conscious and learn how to change it so

Claire Calfo (04:54.798)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (04:58.891)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (05:07.48)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (05:09.258)
And then there's four main styles. There's anxious, avoidant, disorganized, and secure attachment. And I want people to know you could have both of, you could have a mix. So it's on a spectrum. You might be 25% secure, 75% anxious. But yeah, I'm happy to go into the styles too, if you want to.

Claire Calfo (05:17.806)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (05:24.407)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (05:33.406)
Yeah, that'd be great. I feel like it's so funny. I feel like I switch around depending on the relationship when I observe my past. Um, so knowing, you know, one of my past relationships, I was so extremely avoidant and then with a different partner was really anxious and I'm like, that's so interesting. So I don't know if that's something you hear a lot, but I am curious on your perspective on sort of like that shift. I know it's really dependent on the partner and probably maybe the certain triggers that occur in that relationship. But.

Claire Calfo (06:02.594)
Um, yeah, I would love to maybe dive into each style and then just sort of solutions to move towards that secure attachment, like you mentioned.

Dr Morgan (06:11.277)
Yeah, and we can, we can circle back to that point because I do get asked that. So that's a good, it's a good question. The first style, anxious attachment, just to put it in simple terms, this is where you're prioritizing the relationship above yourself. And you might struggle with setting boundaries, expressing your needs.

Claire Calfo (06:14.988)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (06:23.01)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (06:34.109)
And you could be susceptible to co-dependence where you're just wanting to merge with your partner. And then also you really struggle with reassurance. So your partner could give you reassurance, but you're not good at actually accepting it and internalizing it. So you're just constantly wanting that reassurance from your partner.

Claire Calfo (06:40.182)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (06:49.741)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (06:53.482)
Yeah, sounds familiar. Yeah.

Dr Morgan (06:55.514)
Yeah, you know, and in practice, this is like when you're texting him and you don't hear back and then you send 17 text messages and your stomachs and knots and you're catastrophizing and telling the stories about how your relationship's going to end. Like you're always imagining the abandonment and waiting for the other shoe to drop. Yeah. Yeah.

Claire Calfo (07:06.101)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (07:13.81)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what, what sort of tips do you give to people with that attachment style to move towards more secure? I know there's probably really basic things like, you know, the healing process and going to therapy and doing things like that. But I'm curious of any other things that come to mind, maybe based on your book or just, you know, your work in general.

Dr Morgan (07:37.703)
Yeah, one of the main things with anxious attachment is learning how to self-soothe.

Dr Morgan (07:44.39)
because oftentimes these individuals have depended on external people to help them have, you know, the stable emotion. So like learning how to self-soothe and take care of your emotions yourself and practice tuning inwards. When we have anxious attachment, we're really good at knowing what other people's needs are and you're kind of very externally focused. So it's great to

Claire Calfo (07:51.128)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (08:02.903)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (08:10.359)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (08:14.384)
emotions and creating routines for yourself that are non-negotiables.

Claire Calfo (08:20.426)
I love that. Yeah, especially like you mentioned, if it's your relationships above yourself, and if you have those non-negotiables, like I have to do these things every day and then I can be present to others. Like I really love that. That's really amazing, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Dr Morgan (08:37.536)
Yes, yes, yes, yes. And there's more I could say, of course, but those are like some really good starting points. Yeah.

Claire Calfo (08:44.926)
Yeah, absolutely. And then how about that avoidant style? Can we go into that too? So that's a great question. So I think that's a great question. So

Dr Morgan (08:50.014)
Yeah, so this is the opposite in some ways. So this is where you are prioritizing yourself and your independence above the relationship. And these individuals struggle with being close and maintaining intimacy. They are scared to depend on others. And they also will oftentimes have fears that they're not a good partner. So they'll just think like, I'm just not good at relationships.

Claire Calfo (08:57.55)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (09:14.473)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (09:19.868)
strategies. So pulling away. This is, you know, the guy you went on a great date, you thought you really connected and then you don't hear from them for three weeks. You're like, did you die? Right? Like they just completely pull away. And it's, it's because intimacy doesn't feel emotionally safe. Yeah.

Claire Calfo (09:26.89)
Hehehe

Claire Calfo (09:30.902)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (09:38.602)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, sounds familiar for me also. So as I said, the switching, yeah, that's funny. And for, I think there's kind of two ends here. I'm curious how as a partner you can work with someone who's avoidant, but also if you are the avoidant person, like some of those techniques that you mentioned, similar to anxious attachment.

Dr Morgan (10:02.458)
Yeah, with with avoided attachment, it's also about getting comfortable with your emotions. Because a lot of times they're very cut off from their emotional experience. And they're very focused on just like going, you know, into their careers, a lot of times, they'll put a lot of their energy there. So getting comfortable with emotions, and then also learning that, hey, I can communicate well with my partner, I can set boundaries.

Claire Calfo (10:08.383)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (10:19.671)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (10:32.18)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (10:32.328)
Because a lot of times they've had past relationship experiences where if they did set a boundary or they did express a need or an emotion, it went completely sideways on them. So they just have a lot of beliefs about, I shouldn't even try to communicate because it's not going to go well. So with avoidant attachment, you need a lot of, I would call it like corrective communication experiences where you do communicate.

Claire Calfo (10:52.29)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (10:59.074)
Yeah.

Dr Morgan (11:02.384)
So in a way that helps the relationship and your partner hears you. So, and they, yeah, they need to know that they can set boundaries and still maintain the relationship.

Claire Calfo (11:11.726)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And then obviously, so there's those two. And then I feel like I don't really know what disorganized is. And is that the anxious secure or is that something else I'm trying to remember?

Dr Morgan (11:20.37)
Yeah. Yeah, so disorganized attachment, I would say on social media, people refer to it as fearful avoidant.

Claire Calfo (11:31.362)
Got it, okay.

Dr Morgan (11:32.25)
But the clinical term is disorganized and it's called that because it's disorganized strategies for connection. So what it means is you will likely pendulum swing between anxious and avoidant. Well, no, I want to clarify for you. So with disorganized attachment, it's like this is usually correlated with childhood

Claire Calfo (11:44.599)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (11:49.826)
So maybe this is me. OK. Yeah, yeah.

Claire Calfo (12:02.69)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (12:02.804)
and the pendulum swing is quick. So like in the morning you could be anxious, in the evening you could be avoidant. So not necessarily from relationship to relationship, which I'll talk about that too, but this is very confusing. This is that like push-pull, the person's in, then they're out, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Claire Calfo (12:10.134)
Got it, got it.

Claire Calfo (12:15.651)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (12:22.662)
Yeah, yeah, I think we've all encountered someone like this for sure. Yeah, it's very interesting. Yeah. Okay. And then.

Dr Morgan (12:31.883)
Yeah, they want intimacy, but they want total independence at the same time.

Claire Calfo (12:36.074)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's difficult for someone who's a partner to them, I'm sure. So, yeah, yeah. And then, yeah, would love before we go into like a secure, I'd love to hear your just theory on, you know, my experience on, you know, partner to partner, how it's a bit different.

Dr Morgan (12:40.638)
Yes, yes.

Dr Morgan (12:50.802)
Yeah. Yeah. So I call this the switch. What ends up happening, because I've seen it a lot. So what ends up happening is maybe we tried one strategy in the relationship, because you have to realize your attachment style is a connection strategy. So for example, you, if you try anxious attachment in one of your relationships, but then that doesn't work out.

Claire Calfo (13:10.487)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (13:19.522)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (13:19.818)
What happens is this way over correction to the avoidant attachment style, because your brain is going, oh, well, let's try this approach. So then, yeah, and then, and also your attraction, too, right? Like your brain said, oh, I was attracted to this kind of person. Now I'm going to be attracted to this kind of person. So it's usually this over correction that I see people do.

Claire Calfo (13:29.514)
Mm-hmm. Interesting.

Claire Calfo (13:43.07)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (13:46.31)
Yeah, yeah, that makes total sense. Yeah, that's funny. Okay, cool.

Dr Morgan (13:50.494)
You're like, it was a bad boy, now I'm going to go after the nice guy or you don't. Like you just change your strategy completely and you over-correct one way.

Claire Calfo (13:54.831)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (13:58.866)
Mm-hmm. That makes total sense. And then, yeah, like how, I guess, going to more secure now, what is that? What is the, I guess, we talked a little bit about anxious and secure or anxious and avoidant and sort of those mechanisms to get to more secure. But I guess as, you know, an expert, what do you define as secure? Do you think that people still have like maybe anxious tendencies and avoidant tendencies? Like I would love to hear about that because...

Claire Calfo (14:28.351)
I just, I'm in the school of thought where I'm like, you know, I'm never going to be able to like really achieve that like top thing and it's going to take work. And so I'd love to just hear about that a bit.

Dr Morgan (14:33.602)
Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Secure attachment is not perfect. I always love to say that because people have it as this, you know, like this goal. It's definitely not perfect. In the securely attached relationship, you can be open, honest, direct in your communication. You can set boundaries. You value yourself and you value the relationship. You desire

Claire Calfo (14:44.127)
Oh, I love that.

Claire Calfo (14:46.786)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (14:59.522)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (15:04.376)
So both can be true. And I like to think of it as interdependence, where I depend on me and I can depend on my partner. So both are available to me. And I really think the hallmark of the secure connection is two individuals who feel...

Claire Calfo (15:16.151)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (15:24.742)
like they get to become the best versions of themselves in the relationship. And they actually feel like it makes them expansive and it helps them grow in their life by having the secure base. So you become more of who you really are in a securely attached relationship. And you simultaneously grow the relationship and you grow as individuals.

Claire Calfo (15:30.08)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (15:44.113)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (15:54.752)
But to answer your point, I just was talking about this. You have to think about it as climate versus weather.

Claire Calfo (16:03.712)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (16:03.758)
So the securely attached relationship has a really secure climate, but there may be those weather incidents of anxious attachment or avoidant attachment, but the secure relationship repairs quickly. So you're never 100% perfect, but you can repair quickly and come back to secure really easily.

Claire Calfo (16:09.111)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (16:21.8)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (16:25.631)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (16:29.898)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that analogy. That's great. That makes a lot of sense. Wonderful. So it sounds like how can you, I guess there's kind of two questions here I have. So do you think that if you are currently in a relationship and you are demonstrating maybe avoidant or anxious or disorganized tendencies, can you be in that relationship and work towards secure? Or do you often encourage people to like do that on their own? Like, I'm kind of curious if there's I know there's probably not one way to do it. But

Claire Calfo (16:59.71)
I wonder if the process is a bit different in a relationship versus single.

Dr Morgan (17:05.794)
Yeah, it definitely depends on the relationship. And I have helped lots of people who are in marriages or long-term relationships, and maybe they realize that this is them and they want to work on their attachment style. The number one thing is that you have a partner that is supportive of you doing this work. And you can have people that have an anxious

Claire Calfo (17:09.678)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (17:25.047)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (17:34.868)
emphasis on both, right? It can't just be one. As long as both individuals want to create secure attachment, you can move towards that and co-create it together. And oftentimes one partner changing, so like the women in my program, they come in, they do the work, just by them doing that, they're going to change their marriage or their relationship.

Claire Calfo (17:38.123)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (17:43.203)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (18:01.082)
because we change one part of the equation, the whole thing changes. So I think it's a really powerful gift for your relationship if it's something you realize. Yeah.

Claire Calfo (18:04.801)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (18:12.598)
Awesome. Yeah, I love that. And then how do you bring this up to your partner? How do you encourage the women you work with to, um, you know, have this conversation and say, you know, I've been noticing these things and I want to work on them. Like I'd love to sort of hear what, um, that looks like.

Dr Morgan (18:29.406)
Yeah, there have been women I helped who don't tell their partner. So I think it's such a personal choice. But the women who do, I know that we talk about them positioning it so that their partner can hear it and be supportive. And it really comes down to, hey, I'm taking accountability. Like how attractive is that when someone wants to take accountability and take ownership, right? So they're saying, I'm taking ownership.

Claire Calfo (18:37.079)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (18:51.544)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (18:55.67)
Yeah.

Dr Morgan (18:59.8)
I'm realizing that I'm not bringing my best self to this relationship and I really want to work on me so that I can be a better partner to you. So I've decided to do this work on me. Yeah.

Claire Calfo (19:04.824)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (19:10.699)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (19:14.158)
Mm-hmm. That's great. I love that. And yeah, it is. I'm glad you said that you don't have to tell them if you don't want to too. I think that's important. Anything else about attachment theory before we sort of move on to like your relationship program that you think is really important for people to know or even like how to maybe discover your attachment style. I know it might be pretty clear to some people, but any tips maybe around that?

Dr Morgan (19:39.769)
Yeah, so I do have a free quiz. So I have a quiz, the link in my bio on Instagram. I can give it to you for your show notes too. Okay, perfect. What I like about my quiz is it'll tell you the percentages. So it breaks it down percentage wise.

Claire Calfo (19:46.958)
We'll put it in the show notes, yeah.

Claire Calfo (19:54.833)
Oh nice.

Dr Morgan (19:55.354)
Um, there's, there's other quizzes online. Um, but also in my book, I break down thoughts, behaviors.

Dr Morgan (20:05.67)
and all the connection strategies. So I think like once you see it and you dive into it, you will be able to know what your style is. And then I think what I would want people to know about attachment theory is that it is a tool for understanding what you do in relationships. And I don't want you to write people off or like be on your dates and be like, oh, they're

Claire Calfo (20:10.968)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (20:15.234)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (20:22.56)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (20:31.95)
I'm sorry.

Dr Morgan (20:35.104)
I will have some clients that kind of go a little overboard. So take the lab coat off when you're on the date, like be present, but you can use it as a helpful tool. And we don't want to write people off based on their attachment style. We want to write them off based on their behaviors and the data that we gather. So give people the opportunity to show you who they are and what kind of partner they are. Don't just do it based on what you think their attachment style is.

Claire Calfo (20:40.576)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (20:48.021)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (21:00.064)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (21:03.762)
Yeah, that's a great point. I love that. Take off the lab coat. That's great. I want to move on to your relationship program and talk a bit about dating. I know it's used to how it's designed to take you from lonely to loved, confused to empowered, anxious to secure, which I love. I'm curious. One of the things is how to stop dating or attracting guys who don't want to commit. I know so many people who experience this and I've experienced

Claire Calfo (21:33.97)
I'd love for you to just kind of do your quick deep dive into what exactly you can do to stop attracting those types of men or stop being attracted to those types of men as well.

Dr Morgan (21:44.886)
Totally. And I created this program because I was working as a clinical psychologist in private practice and I just saw that people would get awareness about, okay, this is like why you are the way you are, but then they didn't know what to do with the awareness. So I'd be on the couch across from these people and there's things I want to say, but it wasn't the right place to do it.

Claire Calfo (21:53.108)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (22:03.095)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (22:14.04)
help people actually know what to do. So to your question, one of the, well, a few of the areas that we deep dive in in the program is knowing your belief systems. So your belief systems about yourself and about relationships.

Claire Calfo (22:17.163)
Yeah.

Dr Morgan (22:33.594)
And that has a huge impact on who you're attracted to. And it's completely unconscious. So until we make it conscious, it's gonna drive the bus. So the belief systems are huge. Another thing we look at is repetition compulsion. And this is essentially where we're taking childhood, unfinished business, and we're playing it out in our adult romantic relationships. And it's impacting who we're choosing.

Claire Calfo (22:37.442)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (22:43.063)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (23:03.428)
using as partners.

Claire Calfo (23:04.952)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (23:05.382)
So I do a lot of deep work around helping clients stop that. So I have found things that work and that give people closure so that you can leave, you know, your unfinished business is no longer unfinished, you finish it, and you can choose partners from the securely attached, emotionally stable adult version of you instead of the childhood wounded version of you that is trying to make up for their childhood.

Claire Calfo (23:36.202)
Yeah, you're like stopping a vicious cycle almost and creating a new pattern of relationships. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that's great. This is kind of a funny question, but I'm curious, like in your opinion, what's some really common or really things you see like green flags and red flags when you're dating? And yeah, just would love to go into that.

Dr Morgan (23:39.537)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Morgan (24:00.594)
Totally. And I feel like green flags don't get talked about enough. So I love that you asked that, but we can start with the red flags. Anybody who's gonna put you down in any way is like automatic. No. And sometimes even humor like you, you know, those guys that will just constantly joke and like jab at you. There is a line like if it's too much. That's definitely a red flag because this is somebody who doesn't know how to like have real intimacy.

Claire Calfo (24:07.128)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (24:12.972)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (24:19.682)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (24:26.092)
Yeah.

Dr Morgan (24:29.828)
and express gratitude towards you. Anyways, that's a whole tangent, but other red flags, like how they treat people, I'm sure you've all heard this one, how they treat the waiter. If they're treating you away, then treat them differently, red flag. If they are not...

Claire Calfo (24:32.222)
Mm-hmm. Ha ha.

Claire Calfo (24:40.839)
Yes.

Dr Morgan (24:50.786)
present, like if you're on the date and they're just on their phone the whole time or like if you go in your if you check in with your body and you're just like I don't feel heard I don't feel listened to I don't really feel valued. I feel like I'm a placeholder like I could be anyone right major red flag

Claire Calfo (24:55.223)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (25:09.586)
Yeah, totally, yeah. This is kinda, I'm skipping ahead maybe for the greens, but do you have any yellow flags like that you ever, yeah.

Dr Morgan (25:19.441)
Yeah.

Dr Morgan (25:21.702)
I do. And I went into detail in my book on this. I like really brainstorm. So if you want the full list, it's definitely in the book. But one that I think one that's interesting is like if someone's late, right? Because that could mean that they really are not ready to put effort in. Maybe they are emotionally unavailable or maybe they had a horrible day at work and they got stuck in traffic and they are legit just late and it was an accident.

Claire Calfo (25:25.626)
Oh great. Okay, awesome.

Claire Calfo (25:34.556)
Oh, yeah.

Claire Calfo (25:43.224)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (25:51.136)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (25:51.696)
yellow flag. Also, if someone talks a lot about their past relationships and maybe they're just sharing a lot with you, sometimes people just don't really understand the impact that that can have on someone that you're trying to get to know. So I think of it as yellow because it's an opportunity for you to give feedback and say, Hey, you know, I'm trying to get to know you right now.

Claire Calfo (26:02.242)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (26:08.446)
Yeah.

Dr Morgan (26:21.616)
relationship inventory of everybody we've ever dated. Like, let's actually save that, you know. So that's yellow to me. Also, if they broke up with somebody less than six months ago, yellow, because you just don't know. There could be someone who's really healthy, processed that, it's good to go, they're emotionally available. Or you could be

Claire Calfo (26:25.067)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (26:38.542)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (26:51.556)
emotionally available yet and they're still wounded and hurt and they're not going to be able to show up at their best. So those are just some of the ones off the top of my head. Yeah, yeah.

Claire Calfo (26:53.262)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (26:57.343)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (27:00.938)
Yeah, I'm glad I asked about those. Those are important, I think. Yeah, and then what about the green flags? The fun ones.

Dr Morgan (27:07.758)
Okay, so green flags, yes. So if you feel like they are genuinely curious about getting to know you, because we've all been on those dates where you're asking them all the questions and you know their whole life story and they didn't ask a thing about you, right? So they have to seem like they're genuinely wanting to get to know you. That's a green flag. If they can validate

Claire Calfo (27:16.991)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (27:26.338)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (27:32.394)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (27:38.452)
what you've said and make you feel heard. So saying something like, you know, man, I had a really tough week this week. I had a tough conversation with my boss. And then they're able to say, man, it sounds like this was a rough week for you. Like just that simple thing of they validate you and you're feeling deeply heard. Huge.

Claire Calfo (27:42.008)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (28:01.119)
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Dr Morgan (28:02.75)
Um, other, other green flag, they respect your boundaries. They asked you out on a Thursday and you said, I'm so sorry. I do yoga with my girlfriends every Thursday. I can't make it. They say, no big deal. I love it. Enjoy yoga. We'll do Saturday, right? Like respecting your boundaries. Great green flag. Um, and then I would say being open and honest about what they want.

Claire Calfo (28:12.151)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (28:17.044)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (28:24.91)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr Morgan (28:25.882)
you know, a guy who can say, hey, you know, I'm really, I am, I'm looking for a serious relationship and, you know, not saying that's us right away, but I just want you to know that that really is what, what I'm looking for. And I'm open to getting to know you more.

Claire Calfo (28:41.738)
Yeah, that's awesome. I have a funny like personal story, but my current boyfriend that I'm dating, I have a secure, I would say, but lean sort of anxious sometimes attachment style with him. And one of, I feel like I had all the green flags show up when we first started dating. And I used to be really bad about sharing my emotions and that's like taking therapy and you know, a lot of things to work through. And I always get so anxious when I like need to bring up something that I need with my partner.

Claire Calfo (29:10.842)
And that's just because of past relationships again, and like parents and all of that. And I was so nervous to bring something up and I was like, I just, it really, you know, bothered me. I felt like this when, you know, this happened. And he was like, I'm so sorry I made you feel that way. Like because, you know, I'm like, I and just like completely validated me. And I was like, this is so funny when you put these things into practice and you express your needs and then having a partner that's like able to see that. I'm like, this is very special. This is like a nice feeling. So

Claire Calfo (29:40.386)
It's just so, I liked the green flags because I can see that right now in my relationship. So I love it. Yeah.

Dr Morgan (29:47.002)
So good. Yeah. And what you described in clinical terms, we would just call it a corrective emotional experience. Like you're having an experience that shows you, oh, relationships can be different, right? Like I can feel heard and seen and secure. So that's great. I love it.

Claire Calfo (29:54.412)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (29:59.672)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (30:04.906)
Yeah, yeah. Kind of another fun question, but do you have a go-to date that you recommend your clients go on, especially if you wanna create secure attachment? And this maybe could be like first, second, third dates, like is there something specific you recommend? So, I'm gonna go ahead and start with this one.

Dr Morgan (30:20.687)
Oh, that's a really, that's a really great question. I do, I have a rule about dating, but it's more about the first date. So I might have to think about your question, but for the first date, I always tell people it needs to be less than an hour. Yeah. And ideally it would be at a coffee shop or you'd be going on a walk at a park. But

Claire Calfo (30:28.865)
Let's hear it.

Claire Calfo (30:35.88)
Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Claire Calfo (30:43.618)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (30:44.538)
you have to be able to be boundaried on that first date to make sure that you're pacing your emotional investment. And you're just kind of gathering the data on this person. You're like, do I really want to see them again? Right? So I like a 45 minute coffee date for the first date. That's my like strong opinion, but to build secure attachment, honestly, anything that is maybe like

Claire Calfo (30:51.766)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (31:01.422)
That's great.

Dr Morgan (31:14.452)
I'm like imagining like walking across like a bridge or something, you know, like something that maybe is like, you have to depend on each other. You have to like hold each other's hands going on like a hike, potato chip rock in San Diego. I'm like thinking about that, like something that's like a little bit adrenaline and you have to depend on each other. That's a great way to to develop secure attachment because it's all about is my partner going to be there when I need them?

Claire Calfo (31:18.286)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Claire Calfo (31:25.802)
Oh yeah.

Claire Calfo (31:28.455)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (31:32.886)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (31:40.146)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, totally. I love that. Yeah, the hiking one, I really like too. I feel like you get to be outside, you kind of get to, I don't know. It's and then you can maybe keep it short. I'm not sure about under 45, but maybe a short hike. Yeah. And then.

Dr Morgan (31:48.762)
Yeah. Hehehe. Yeah.

Claire Calfo (31:58.662)
Just do you have a favorite client story that you can share? And I'm just curious. You don't have to share anything. I know that's a confidentiality, but I don't know if you have any like testimonials or anything like that, but yeah, I would love to hear a story or something like that.

Dr Morgan (32:12.071)
Yeah, you know, it's so funny. So one of my one of my clients is getting married Memorial Day weekend.

Claire Calfo (32:18.707)
Oh, that's amazing.

Dr Morgan (32:20.346)
Um, and she was one of my very first clients and she, she had had this history of like just never being with somebody who was emotionally available. All of her relationships were long distance. They were always out of state or even in a different country. And she just really, really wanted a partner.

Claire Calfo (32:23.052)
Wow.

Claire Calfo (32:31.97)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (32:42.894)
And she jumped in to work with me, committed to it, let go of a lot of past stuff that was unconscious for her. And she just completely changed her life. Like she started dating securely attached men. She had a couple to choose from. And then she, you know, continued with one who now she's marrying. And she just she has this this joy in her life and kind of this glow.

Claire Calfo (32:56.279)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (33:06.515)
Wow.

Dr Morgan (33:13.088)
and she's just really happy. And she also became the CEO of a company after doing this work. She was like promoted. She's traveling the world. I mean, I just look at her and I'm like, you're just living your absolute best life. And she's getting married Memorial Day weekend. Yeah.

Claire Calfo (33:13.532)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (33:17.65)
Oh my gosh, that is amazing.

Claire Calfo (33:24.756)
Oh my gosh.

Claire Calfo (33:32.254)
Oh my gosh, that's amazing. I like just wanna do your program and like, grow like, you know, some growth. That's amazing. That's awesome. Are you going to the wedding?

Dr Morgan (33:42.086)
I'm not, but I'm going to see her after. So that'll be exciting. Yeah, oh, and one thing about her too, she healed the relationships in her family, which is a big thing in our program. Like she's close with her mom and dad and her sisters and they're all gonna be at the wedding and they all plan the wedding together. And she just, yeah, she has a great family life now too.

Claire Calfo (33:45.707)
Nice.

Claire Calfo (33:52.447)
Oh wow.

Claire Calfo (34:01.794)
That's so sweet.

Claire Calfo (34:05.994)
Yeah, wow, I'm gonna sign up, I think. Yeah, no, not easy. I kinda wanna move on to, just cause you're mentioning your client too is married and just talking a bit about long-term relationships. And I know obviously like we were mentioning before this work, it's a lot of work and it's, you know, you have to keep yourself in line to maintain.

Dr Morgan (34:10.15)
Not easy to do. She's very brave.

Claire Calfo (34:31.631)
your best self and your secure attachment style. So what sort of advice or I guess tactics would you recommend to people who want to maintain their long-term relationships and really keep that secure attachment alive?

Dr Morgan (34:45.758)
Yeah, great question. There's so much I could say, but some of the core things is like remembering that your joy is your job. So part of secure attachment is just realizing that you are an individual, that you are bringing yourself to the relationship. And if you're not taking care of you, then your relationship will suffer.

Claire Calfo (34:56.983)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (35:10.702)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (35:11.298)
And I think sometimes we were really struggling in our own lives as individuals. And then we project that onto our relationship and we think there's something wrong in our relationship, but the securely attached healthy couple, like they're going to look at themselves as individuals first and ask themselves, Hey, like my joy is my job. What is it that I need to work on for me?

Claire Calfo (35:21.943)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (35:28.066)
Mm hmm.

Dr Morgan (35:33.098)
before I point fingers at the relationship. So that's big. And then connection rituals. So I don't talk about this as much, I should, but it's like, yeah, creating little pockets of connection in your day-to-day that's intentional. Because you and I know in the age of cell phones and social media, you can be with your partner in a room and not with.

Claire Calfo (35:42.238)
Oh.

Claire Calfo (35:44.926)
I like this already.

Claire Calfo (35:51.916)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (36:01.282)
Mm-hmm. Oh, I know this for sure. Yeah. It's tough, yeah.

Dr Morgan (36:03.232)
other right yeah so one thing I've done with my partner is we have no phones in bed rule and we before before we go to bed we'll we'll talk about something that we're grateful for

Claire Calfo (36:14.418)
Mm-hmm. Oh, I like that.

Dr Morgan (36:22.354)
If there's anything that we need support in the next day, we always ask the question of like, how can I support you right now? But we do this as a routine and it's intentional carved out time. Because if we don't do that, even just five, 10 minutes a day, if we don't do it, we run the risk of being disconnected from our partners.

Claire Calfo (36:25.143)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (36:36.119)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (36:45.662)
Yeah, absolutely. I really love that. What other connection rituals do you recommend to people typically outside of the no phones and bed?

Dr Morgan (36:59.146)
like one of the things that's so important is we celebrate, which I know it's like birthdays, our anniversary, and we'll usually use that time to go away together. So even if it's just going out to lunch or maybe you're just driving to a nearby town, but changing your environment together, what we do is we make sure we do it at least.

Claire Calfo (37:03.276)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (37:11.928)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (37:24.122)
every other month. Ideally, it's once a month. So I really believe in carving out that time where it's just the two of you and you're outside of your normal environment. You don't have to go to Mexico, like if that's not in the budget, okay, but like just go somewhere different than your normal environment at least once a month.

Claire Calfo (37:25.59)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (37:32.247)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (37:39.188)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (37:42.902)
Mm-hmm. I love that. I'm a big traveler, so I'm like, this is music to my ears. I'm like, yes. I will do a road trip once a month, absolutely.

Dr Morgan (37:52.09)
Yeah, shared experiences, shared experiences. And yeah, there's so much I could say. And you know, honestly, as I grow in this relationship with my partner, there's more and more that I learn about what works and doesn't work. So I'm learning all the time about how do you do this for the long term, but...

Claire Calfo (38:07.946)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (38:11.765)
Yeah.

Dr Morgan (38:15.374)
I will say to my partner's credit, one of the things that he always does is he brings laughter into our life. Because I'm pretty serious, you know? But he makes me laugh all the time. So I do think it's helpful if one of you can kind of lighten the mood a bit. It just, it helps. Yeah.

Claire Calfo (38:22.599)
Oh, I love that.

Claire Calfo (38:31.466)
very important.

Claire Calfo (38:35.206)
Mm hmm. Definitely. Yeah. I went to a comedy show and she's like, you need to laugh at least one time or two times or one time twice a day. I'd set that completely wrong. But she's like, you'll be happier if you do that. So

Dr Morgan (38:48.5)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, laughter is so important. And then the other thing that I would say for long-term happiness is my last thing is expressing gratitude and appreciation. All the research on healthy long-term relationships is when people feel acknowledged and appreciated.

Claire Calfo (38:56.256)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (39:08.854)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr Morgan (39:13.892)
criticized and unappreciated. So you are putting into your relationship bank account every time you acknowledge your partner, you express gratitude for the big things, for the little things. You should be doing it every day as much as you can.

Claire Calfo (39:16.471)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (39:31.538)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's great advice. I really love that. And then, yeah, my last question around long-term relationships is just that healthy conflict navigation. And this is a big topic, and I don't want to dive too deep into it, because I know we don't have, you know, if we had three hours, we could probably talk about it for an hour. But just curious, your advice around healthy conflict navigation and whether that's maybe asking for

Dr Morgan (39:49.315)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.

Claire Calfo (39:59.714)
a compromise or I'm kind of curious how you define that, but yeah, how to navigate that with a long-term partner.

Dr Morgan (40:07.174)
Yeah, and I love this topic. I used to do couples therapy exclusively in my practice, and I was like, why don't people love couples therapy? I always thought it was so fun. Like, I got to be like the referee and I love teaching people communication. And what I have found to be most helpful is teaching couples communication structure for conflict.

Claire Calfo (40:14.136)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (40:21.161)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (40:31.426)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (40:32.646)
And the structure I teach is called dialogue. It actually comes from a mago therapy. But in dialogue, there are two roles. There's a sender and then there's a receiver. And when you're practicing this, the sender gets to use I statements. So I felt blank when blank happened. And the receiver, the only thing the receiver can do

Claire Calfo (40:48.098)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (40:56.096)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (41:02.616)
I heard you say that you felt blank when blank happened. All the receiver can do is be a mirror.

Claire Calfo (41:07.49)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (41:11.238)
So, and then you switch, you go back and forth. And what's so powerful about this is when you feel heard, you can move through conflict in a peaceful, wonderful way that adds value to the relationship. Whereas like most couples just want a problem solve. So it's just, it's all about slowing down, learning how to make sure both of you feel heard. And then...

Claire Calfo (41:28.942)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (41:32.66)
Yeah.

Dr Morgan (41:41.052)
you move into problem solving after.

Claire Calfo (41:43.966)
Yeah, yeah, I love that because I go into problem solving mode a lot and I've learned recently how to just see how I'm feeling and then listen to the person who's talking to me and see how they're feeling and really take that in and not try to insert myself and just let them have that space. And that's really hard to do, but it's really important and I feel like it makes that other person feel so much more safe and validated. So it's just so important, I think, what you said. Yeah, yeah.

Dr Morgan (42:14.366)
Yeah, and I really do know that most of our arguments are not about the surface level content. It's about attachment wounds and feeling insecure in our relationship. So it's like the dishes are just they're not about the dishes, right? So when we can slow down and we can hear our partner, we're getting at the core of what's really going on is like, I want you to see me. I want to feel heard. I want to feel like you care. You know, so

Claire Calfo (42:21.678)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (42:29.202)
Right. Yeah.

Claire Calfo (42:40.214)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (42:43.86)
Um, yeah, this'll prevent divorces of people, you know, like when you get good at dialogue, it's a game changer for your relationship. And that's also in my book. I'm just like, it's all in there. So.

Claire Calfo (42:55.042)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (42:57.978)
Yeah, yeah. Well, speaking of your book too, it's obviously called Love Magnet. And I hope I'm going to buy it after this. Like I am so intrigued by all of these topics. So I'm really excited to read it. But I guess just what do you think is your biggest piece of advice or like the number one thing you can do right now to become a Love Magnet? And obviously everyone go buy the book, but just a little sneak peek. I would love to hear that.

Dr Morgan (43:24.172)
The biggest thing that you can do is realize that you are already enough, that you are already worthy of love and you already have all the love that you need within yourself and that a relationship is just going to be a multiplier of that love.

Claire Calfo (43:37.239)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (43:43.71)
but it's not gonna fill the void. So just realize like you already have all the love and you're already enough as you are. And when that person comes in your life, they're just gonna multiply the love that you already have.

Claire Calfo (43:55.534)
Mm-hmm. I love that. That's great. And then I have two more questions for you. One is something I saw in your testimonials is someone said that you taught them about morning alignment. Can you talk a little bit about this?

Dr Morgan (44:10.226)
Yeah, this is a practice that has totally changed my life and it's something I do every morning. What it is, is it's a, I like to think of it as an identity document and there's six parts to it and essentially I'm looking at my beliefs about myself, I'm looking at the vision that I have for my life, I look at photos of like what I want my life to look like, I look at my standards and

Claire Calfo (44:22.058)
Mmm.

Claire Calfo (44:32.864)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (44:37.372)
Oh, I love that.

Dr Morgan (44:40.14)
We won't talk enough about rules, right? Like the rules I have for my life. Yeah. So like a rule could be, I always get eight to nine hours of sleep every night.

Claire Calfo (44:45.354)
What's an example of a rule just so listeners know?

Claire Calfo (44:56.843)
Oh, okay. I love that. That's good. Okay.

Dr Morgan (45:00.462)
Yeah, I set boundaries, I honor my needs, I speak my truth. Like rules are the promises that you make to yourself that you're always gonna keep. But yeah, and I look at it every morning and it's a way to help me align, that's why it's called alignment, align with my highest and best self every morning intentionally so I can show up that way throughout my day.

Claire Calfo (45:03.882)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (45:08.846)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's great.

Claire Calfo (45:16.728)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (45:25.106)
Yeah, that's amazing. It's like kind of, it's like vision board manifestation kind of in one place it sounds like, which I really like.

Dr Morgan (45:34.322)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I have vision boards too. I'm like, I'm all about all the things, you know. Yes.

Claire Calfo (45:39.971)
You got all the things. Yeah, I love it. Awesome. Well, okay, last question for you is just obviously the name of the podcast. What did your mom forget to tell you?

Dr Morgan (45:51.902)
Oh, so that's a that's a good question. So I would say. Oh, that's a tough that's a tough question for me, because I feel like I have multiple moms. I'm going off of like my aunts to.

Claire Calfo (46:09.366)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Morgan (46:12.95)
I would say to not waste time on guys who are not putting in effort. If they're not being reciprocal, if they're not texting you back, just forget about them. And honestly, and I know that probably a lot of people say this, but I wish somebody had told me, do not even think about dating until you're 25.

Claire Calfo (46:27.63)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr Morgan (46:42.944)
fully developed, pursue what you want, have great friendships, go travel, develop your identity for yourself, like live your life, like don't even think about dating until 25 because all my relationships prior to that age, total like bad use of my energy, like the return on energy investment was not good, so that would be my other one.

Claire Calfo (46:45.506)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (46:56.471)
Mm-hmm.

Claire Calfo (47:01.401)
Yeah.

Claire Calfo (47:04.654)
Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. I absolutely love that. Amazing. So where can people find you? Where can people sign up for your program? Find your book, social media? Would love to hear all of it.

Dr Morgan (47:17.182)
Yeah, so the podcast, the Let's Get Vulnerable podcast, two episodes every week, we talk about attachment theory all the time. And then on Instagram, I'm drmorgancoaching, Dr. Morgan coaching on IG, have a daily quote on there. And then the program, yeah, you can apply if you're interested, the application is in the link in my Instagram bio, in order to say apply here.

Dr Morgan (47:44.602)
And then the book is on Amazon. It's like, I have all these things now. It used to just be one thing, like just the podcast, but, yeah, the book is on Amazon. And yeah, I would love to connect with with anyone.

Claire Calfo (47:48.788)
It's amazing.

Claire Calfo (48:00.138)
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I have learned so much and you're inspiring me to look more into attachment theory and all that fun stuff. So I really appreciate your time. Yeah. All right.

Dr Morgan (48:10.902)
Thank you for having me.