Off In The Reeds: Episode 1- Jousting with Stevenson

This episode marks the start of a new project: Off in the Reeds. This podcast will explore the roads less traveled and find the things that carry us all away until we find ourselves... Off In The Reeds. 

Please welcome friend of the pod, Stevenson, from That's Effin' Weird as we deep dive the strange sport of Jousting. 

If you are an experiencer or seeker wishing to share your story, or if you'd like to come on the show and get "Off in the Reeds," please email us at Podcast@MostMillennial.Media 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello, and welcome to a new podcast called Off in the Reeds. In this podcast, we are going to explore some of the offbeat, strange, bizarre, the paranormal, the things that people uh end up off in the reeds with. In our first episode, we are going to be talking with uh a new friend of the pod named Stevenson. He uh and I recorded about jousting for his podcast on That's F and Weird. So yeah, without further ado, here is a uh fresh episode where we really get off in the reeds with jousting.

unknown 0:58

Listen.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

I think I should probably share a childhood jousting story with you. Uh after I say thank you, thank you so much for having me on the show and thank you for letting me do this with you and talk about something that I feel is truly up and weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Oh, yeah, no kidding. Like that's that's part of the like the like again, like I've I said this in the last episode too, because we we covered uh American Gladiators, but these odd sports and everything is something that I've wanted to cover for the last couple of years. And I it's I'm glad that you're here because maybe you can throw some perspective on this too, because I was talking to my wife before the show, um, and I was just like, I asked her was like, how does how does something like jousting just kind of like fade away? Because it is very like it's a very intense sport, and yeah, it's it's a couple of seconds of like action and then it stops. But like you could argue that about like modern day sports in general, like very popular ones. Yeah, exactly, right? So we we can get into that later, but why don't you go ahead and tell me about this childhood jousting story?

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Yeah, so it's 2001, a knight's tale just came out. Um, We Will Rock You by Queen is being played in over the top of like a medieval knight tale. Yeah, you know, and so that was like the coolest thing ever in 2001. Um, and I didn't have a horse, but I did have a bike, and I didn't have opponents, but I did have a sister, and so we we would line up maybe like 50 yards apart, um, go as fast as we could on our bikes, and instead of jousting with sticks because that would be dangerous, we would use pine cones and try to toss a pine cone at the other person as you pass. Yeah, and then if you hit them, then you win.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Um, the trick was to basically like let go of the pine cone a couple feet in front of your your opponent, your sit sibling. Because if you tried to really like get behind it and throw as hard as you could, the pine cone would just whiff off into oblivion. So yeah, just a little bit of momentum goes a long way. And I'm proud to say that I am the undefeated childhood jousting champion.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

I feel I feel like I've seen things online too where like people will have like pool noodles and kind of like do the same thing. Yeah. Um but yeah, it's a it's a very intense sport. And again, kind of like what we were saying, like I just I don't understand how something like this just fades away and it no longer really is is a thing. So yeah, uh you you said you you did a little bit of the history and you know you kind of dug into there. Why don't we start there and kind of pick up pick away at that? Maybe we can get some answers and then we can just you know kind of see where it goes from there. I'm sure I'm sure I'm gonna have questions and you're gonna throw some insight at me. So yeah, let's let's get after it.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Let's do it. Um, why don't we start with like the history of why it kind of faded away first? Okay. And then we can get into like the materials and the armor and all like the required stuff for it. Um, and maybe that some of that'll come out as we go through the story too. But um this is actually a story about two Henries, Henry the Eighth and King Henry the Second. Uh King Henry the Eighth was like a huge fan of jousting and actually jousted himself and had a training partner that would like actually knock him off his horse pretty frequently.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Which is like you imagine Henry VIII, like nobody's gonna want to knock that guy off a horse. But if you like didn't go as hard as you possibly could, then that would also look really bad on you that you're trying to baby the king.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

So uh yeah, he actually got super injured during this as well, which is start of why we're seeing Jhausting kind of fade away. His first injury was in 1524, and a dude struck him in the head with a splintered lance, so it had like had already broken and then snapped up and hit him in the head.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Oh geez.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Uh that gave him migraines for the rest of his life after that.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Oh my gosh. And it's not like he like he lived in a time where you can like take some aspirin or like migraine medication, like drinking water is the best you can do.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Yeah, have you tried rubbing a dead rat carcass on it? Like it's the worst now, that's a made-up medicine. Oh, I was like, no. No, it was yeah, terrible time to have medicine.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Uh, but yeah, so yeah, that happened in 1524. Then over a decade later, 1536, he actually fell from his horse and was trapped beneath the animal for like two hours.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

What?

SPEAKER_02 6:03

And so, yeah, that crushing injury left him unconscious and he had like a really bad busted up leg. And so that really started the the decrease in uh popularity. Um but Henry doesn't. Hold on, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

So you said that he got trapped under a horse. Was this was he jousting at the time? Yes, both of these were jousting injuries. How does like that's very odd that he got stuck? Like, was there was it just him and one other person that were jousting and then like the other person couldn't get the horse off of him? Or like did the horse die? Like, how did how did the horse just I guess I I don't understand how he was trapped under the horse for two hours?

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Uh the horse was like injured and they weren't able to move it. Um okay, yeah, yeah. And that's why, like, with more modern stuff, this is a good segment to like part of the arena, the tilt barrier. Uh that's like the wooden fence that goes between the horses so that they're not able to run into each other or that they're not able to like accidentally cat catch a lance or something.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah, okay, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Yeah, especially more modern ones have like more substantial fences. Yeah. Um, some of them were just like rope lines, and it was kind of like on your honor not to do that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah. Interesting. Okay, that makes that makes a little bit more sense because I I was very I was like, wait, was he just like riding a horse and something happened? He got trapped under there, but no, if the horse got injured as well, that makes sense. And kind of like what you were saying, like it's compared to like modern-day Joustine, yeah, like a piece of rope was the barrier, like, yeah, all right, the horses are gonna get injured too, probably.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yeah, and there definitely was penalties for injuring the horses, and sometimes that was like exclusion or disqualification from the tournament.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

Um so yeah, uh, with King Henry the Eighth getting injured a couple times and like really being messed up afterwards, that was the start of the downfall, because you know, it's there's a recreational sport that's injuring our kings, that's not a good thing. Yeah, that makes sense. Henry the second, though, was a king of France, and uh he actually was killed jousting in 1559.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Yeah, so he uh was injured on the 10th and he died like several days later, eleven days later, from an infection in his like periorbital cellulitis, which is the eye and like the eye socket, and then a cerebral abscess or like a brain infection after a splinter wasn't able to be removed. So he did he get hit in the head then, or like yep, so a small piece of uh uh lance went through his visor and went straight through his eye into his brain cavity.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

So even though it was like uh you know safer because you're wearing all the right armor, you have the tilt barrier, the lances are specially made. It's still not like a perfectly safe sport for these kings to be doing.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Oh yeah, no, yeah, no kidding.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Yeah. Uh so Henry II died at age 40. Uh and uh this basically uh effectively ended the the whole jousting era. Um, and actually, like his death contributed to the to the French wars of religion because his death destabilized the area so much that it kind of led to that. Really? Yeah, so jousting is responsible for world history. Hey, look at that.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Learn something new every day. Yeah, that so like again, like we were talking a little bit uh a little bit before the show, and I'll I'll get into my part where I covered the full metal jousting, the show and everything. But when you say that like a piece of that splinter, like went through the visor, like the TV show, they they still have like for their helmets that they wear on the TV show, they had I would say it it definitely has eye rolls. Yeah, it looks like Iron Man, but I'm surprised that because of that story and like how prominent that is, that they didn't have like some sort of like flexiglass or like just something over the eye. Home depot goggles or something, yeah, just something to like because that's that's crazy because in the show too, like they do bust up the the poles and everything, so that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

Yeah, yeah, and I think you know that's a good segue to talk about the lanses because they are specifically designed historically and for the show for safety. Um so historically they were actually way longer, uh they were like 10 to 15 feet in length. Um yeah, now like uh I I think they're close to like six to nine feet is more modern. And uh full metal jousting, I think, is like a nine foot one, so a little bit shorter.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Um the ends were split into three points, almost like like an offset fork, like a triangular fork. Um that way it could grip onto the shield, and then each one of those impact points explodes the lance uh on impact in theory.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Um they were originally implements of war, like weapons, instead of like something that you just ride at each other and and bash into each other.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

And so the war lances were actually closer to the 15-foot length and had a a steel point on them.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

That makes that makes a little bit more sense because I I mean, like you you want to be further from the enemy too. And this was at a point in time where like you know, you're still fighting with swords and everything. Um, so the the 15-foot one seems like reasonable, like okay, but I still feel like because I mean, like, I I think we've all held like a large stick in our life. I can't I can't imagine riding on a horse trying to like you know keep it balanced because again, uh the TV show, they when they use the slow motion camera and everything like that, the thing is just like it looks like they're struggling. I mean, the even with a nine-foot one, yeah, it looks like they're having a hard time uh holding it. So I can't imagine having like almost double that length now, yeah. And now you're trying to like kill somebody with with it and everything. I mean, I I don't know, maybe it was a little bit different because you're just kind of like pointing it at the ground. I don't know if they like did you know in your research uh when they were using it for like an instrument of war, were the other jousters looking for other people on horses, or was it really that they were like trying to get like ground people or ground soldiers or whatever with uh their poles?

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Yeah, no, um, so they would be like classified as heavy cavalry. And so the the heavy cavalry with the lance, um they were like devastating against the unarmed, like um, I can't think of the name, the the conscript soldiers, like yeah, um the guys that were just had arming swords, yeah. And so like absolutely devastating. It's kind of like the rock, paper, scissor kind of thing. Like they can and and did go against other heavy cavalry, but you really win the fight when you're sending armored knights into just like a column of dudes, yeah. With pitchforks and whatever else they're they brought, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

I that that air that era of like war fighting is just like I think about that sometimes, and like I'll get tired, you know, just going up a flight of stairs sometimes, and like I can't imagine like fighting somebody like I don't know for an hour or two, like maybe not like one person, but like running after people, like I don't know, just the whole hand-to-hand combat with swords and everything. I can't I can't imagine, but then again, too, a lot of the stuff that I've watched is again from movies. So is it exactly like what it is? I don't know. Um yeah, I I just feel like I I can't imagine I think this would be the worst feeling in the world, right? Is that you're you're fighting somebody and then you you you know you kill them or you you win against them, and then you're like ah, finally, and then someone just comes up behind you and just stabs you, and you're like, oh gosh, I just fought that guy for an hour. No, it worked so hard, yeah, exactly. Because I feel like that's what it would be like. So I feel uh it's just terrifying. Yeah, but then again, I mean, I I guess you could look at it like the same way, like you know, people are like, All right, I wouldn't want to live in a time where you know missiles are falling from the sky or rockets are, you know, you pick your poison, but I still think it'd be you know pretty scary just fighting someone with a with a sword.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

So I do too, because you're like looking them in the eye and like yeah, yeah. Stevenson, do you know that meme where it's like what are you thinking about? And it's the guy's brain and he's like thinking about uh ancient Rome. That's basically what we're doing a little bit with this, is beginning to imagine and like think back and be the meme thinking about medieval warfare.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

I have not seen that meme. If you if you do find it, um yeah, if you want to throw it in the uh podcast photos or word weird things across the internet uh in the um in the server, feel free. I'd like to see that meme.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

But yeah, I'll try to track it down here. Um you bring up a good point about getting tired, and I have good news for you is usually the knights only brought one lance to battle, and so it was just for that first charge, and that's why they usually had like a sword or sidearm, usually like a hammer or axe or something too.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

A hammer, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

Right? Have you seen war hammers before? They're like basically spikes on one side, yeah, like a ball peen on the other.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Yeah, oh god.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Yeah, no, no, thanks. Yeah, um, and a lot of this was developed for like war where everybody's wearing giant steel armor. Uh last piece of like like history facts, um, the armor was actually really specialized for jousting too. And so um you kind of see it in full metal jousting where they have the special neck guard and then they have a shield that sits on their shoulder. Yeah, um, it was often like super reinforced armor, and it was a special armored saddle so that the knight's legs were protected, but usually like the upper torso was meant to kind of be like a neck brace too, so that you don't pop your head off.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Oh my gosh. Yeah, like see, like like this is again, I I bring up the thing where it's like it if more people were to like realize like how dangerous this sport and how intense it is, and just like it's like I personally it's I feel like it's almost like bull riding where it's like okay, yeah, you know, people ride bulls, whatever. But once you find like once you go to like the arena and you like you're just like you see how big these bulls are, it's like no way do I want to get on that thing. And it's just like I feel like it's the same thing, kind of like with this, where it's like, holy cow, like I can die because I get a splinter in my eye from like a joust, like a pole, or like you know, like like I I can't imagine how heavy all of that armor is because again, in like the TV show when like when they do get knocked off, it's not like they get up like all willy-nilly, kind of like what you could say. It's it looks like they're like Iron Man, like it's it, they they have trouble getting up, and yeah, it's just it's gotta be heavy. I'm not sure. Oh, they didn't say like how much everything weighs. Did you were you able to find that? Like how much all the armor and like what it would weigh.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

I I didn't have it right in front of me. Um, it's it's funny. Um, my wife, who's our producer for our show, is looking it up for us so that we can see what it looks like.

SPEAKER_04 18:35

Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

I was gonna guess about 100 pounds, and it sounds like jousting armor was about 70 to 100 pounds, depending on how big it was and how reinforced it was. So, like imagine like a big kid strapped to your chest and you're trying to stand up off the ground after you just got your lights knocked out by another knight. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

I mean, I'm I would I'm trying to think like the modern soldier, because I know they wear like armor, but it's uh again, like I can't imagine that it weighs too much, but then like the the weapon that they're holding and then the ammo. Yeah, obviously, like they can it's not they don't have like armor, like metal armor on their arms and their legs, but I'm wondering if it's like I don't think it's anywhere close to 70 pounds.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

I actually know this one. Um, I've got a bunch of buddies that that are actually in reserves and rock a lot. It's like actually close to like 80 pounds, depending on what they're carrying and what they're doing. No way, but that's all like on a load-bearing backpack system versus like true, like you said, strapped to your arms and legs and part of your body.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

So I don't know which would be easier. I was gonna say, like, what in your mind, you what do you think would be like what would be because like the weight then is all just distributed like between everything, it's not in one like single point, or it's not like on on your back or anything like that. But then again, you just feel heavy. Yeah, it's not like at one point, but you feel heavy. Whereas like the backpack or something like that, like all right, I can still move my arms, I can still move my leg, but just something's kind of like pulling me back, maybe. I don't know. I I don't know what would be worse.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

You know what we need to do is uh we need to have like full wrecked out marines charge at each other with sticks so we can figure this out.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

All right. Well, if any of our listeners are in uh yeah, in the military marines, let's uh let's get that rolling. Let's see if we what we can have happen. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Um so yeah, that's kind of I guess the backdrop of where this is coming from.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

And uh yeah, it made a really cool show on the history channel. Should that be our segue over to what that looked like?

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yeah, yeah, sure. Why not? Um, so a couple of things that like I found out, uh, so right off the bat, kind of like what you had said, there's kind of like uh like the whole like the barriers and like the armor and everything like that, a lot of things had changed from like that time period to now. Um it was there was there's a lot of safety measures put in for modern day jousting. Um, like you had stated before, the the barrier between the two horses and like the the two jousters, uh, that is made out of typically wood now. And there is a there's like three three kind of segments to it. So each rider has like a 40 foot like red barrier or like area where like you can't be touched, and then there's like I think I I don't know what the white space is where like that's the area where you then you can engage the other jouster. I don't know if it's another 40 feet or I don't know the device. Dimensions exactly, uh, but that is like the area in which you can engage the jouster. Um the the actual armor itself and like how you score points uh is kind of designed to try to keep the jouster as safe as possible. Now again, the area in which you're trying to get points or where you're trying to hit the jouster, it's still up near the head, but it's more like at like again, it's the shoulder area. Um apparently the what is it? It's I can't remember if it's uh it's a if it's a specific name. I think it is, but the Germans created the area on the left shoulder. It's it's like a square shield. Yeah, yeah, where like that is where you need to, or like that's where you're trying to hit the the other opponent, right? Um, and how it works is at least in the show, the full metal jousting. I don't know if there's different variants of scoring and how everything works, but in the show federal metal full metal jousting, if you touch that plate, uh it's a point. If you break a stick, so you have to like that is where you have to hit the other uh opponent, right? Uh if you hit that spot and the pole breaks, that's five points. And then if you hit that spot and knock the other person off, that's ten points. Uh it's sound, it sounded like in the TV show, uh, the host and the person who like maybe was like one of the producers or the guy who talks a lot on the show, right? Uh, he had said that he stated uh that one of the rules that he has is that you have to let go of the horse ring um before you engage the other person. And I think that's for safety for the horse and then also the jouster. Because I feel like if you were to hold on to that ring, you could then pull the horse back if if you know, like if you get hit off the horse or whatever, like you're then now pulling the horse. Whereas, like, okay, if you hit, if you let go of it and you get hit, you're just gonna fly back, you're not gonna, you know, hurt, you're not gonna get more injured, I guess. Nothing is like keeping your momentum moving forward.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Yeah, and you're not gonna pull a horse on top of you and end up like Henry VIII.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Exactly. And I feel like that might be like a precursor as to why. I don't know, maybe he got hurt or me, you know. Again, it's it was his TV show possibly, so he can, you know, make up the rules as he goes. Uh, there's something called a tip to tip. So if the two tips of the the poles hit each other, you'd have to do a re a redo or like a rerun of that of that um I guess whatever the rerun. I don't know. I don't know what you would call it. I don't know, yeah, of that match. Thanks. That tip um, yes, yeah. And uh there's uh he was describing it as there's like okay, that that's the like the three ways that you score points, but there's more ways to get penalties than to get points. So if you hit the person in the head or like below the waist, that's negative five points. Um if you hold on, like what I said, if you hold on to that ring and uh you you hit the person, but they notice that yeah, like you said, or I said that uh if you're holding on to it, that's minus five points. If you do it again, uh you're disqualified. Okay, so it's there's those penalties. I think there was um I think there was one more. I can't remember off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

I know we said something like about sweeping the joust or uh the the lands, like you couldn't like swing it into somebody.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Oh, maybe, maybe, yeah. Yeah, I th I think that might have been one of them as well. There definitely is a technique. I I re-watched a later episode, I think it was like episode seven. I was trying to find an earlier episode to kind of like really get a feel for like the rules and how everything is done. Yeah, but I could I couldn't find anything. I'd watched this show like a year or two ago, and now I can't find it anymore. But there is like half an episode on YouTube, so I I watched it, but yeah, they definitely I feel like in the first couple episodes they really harped on like the technique because it's not just running at somebody, or you're not just riding a horse, and it there really is like a sweeping of the body. There's like you have to keep the pole up for a certain period of time and then like let it drop. There's a very like you know, special technique and a way to do this. Um, in the episode that I had watched, it seemed like one of the riders was still having troubles like controlling the pole. And that's kind of like what I had said at like when you were talking about like that 15-foot pole for warp. Yeah, like I can't imagine like they're having troubles with that nine-foot pole. A 15 foot foot pole would be insane.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

So well, just even given per like going off of that giving perspective, the horse is at three-quarter pace, and so it's going like 25 miles per hour towards another horse bouncing along at 25 miles per hour while that guy's got a pointy stick pointing at you, and you have yours, and you have to somehow try to make everything connect, like that's that's pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

It really, it really is, and again, all right, all right, we're gonna all right. We're gonna we're gonna talk about this because I feel like we keep circling back to it. Why do you think that jousting is no longer a thing? We'll get back into the full metal jousting. I'll I'll I'll get talk about that, but I've let's try to dissect this because we keep coming back to it. Why why why do you think it's no longer a thing?

SPEAKER_02 27:57

I think it's no longer a thing because it is too much of a true combat sport. Like you see that with boxing and like bare knuckle boxing. Like that goes illegal because people get get really, really hurt. Um I think the same thing with with like actual jousting that's not at medieval times or renaissance fairs or like for show is just too dangerous to not be making enough money to have a career-ending injury. Like football has that. It's kind of like a simulated combat thing, but but jousting, there's not enough money in it to have people risk their their bodies like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

That's true. I would uh I would've so it's yes, like when you when you say like the bare knuckle boxing and everything, it's like okay, yeah, that's there's not anything, like people aren't doing that, but like look at the UFC, like people are getting like I don't know, like really fucked up because of that. And like even boxing, like you look at boxers who like their their brains are just like jello right now because of the amount of times that they're getting hit in the head, like that is not good for people. Um I I don't know, it's I don't know what it could be as far as what about horse cost as like a barrier to entry for this, too.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Because you look at like race horses or rodeo horses, a good you know, barrel racing horse for a very amateur level could be twenty thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

That's true, that's very true. So it's it's because to like again, like to box or for UFC, you know, you just need a pair of pair of gloves and some shorts and maybe a mouth guard. Yeah, that's that's that's really it as far as the person who wants to do it. But yeah, if you want to joust, you're looking at unless you're getting sponsored by someone, or maybe if like I did joust. Yeah, like it's it's gonna cost you a lot to to do all that. And again, breaking the polls, like yeah, you're you're gonna go through polls like crazy. Like that's I feel like that's something where I don't know how much it would cost to make something like that. Um, but like in a TV show, yeah, they they go through them quite often. Um yeah, it's I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

I just I find it fascinating that that's so I guess coming off of that too, Stevenson, it's like, how do you think the guys that were on full metal jousting trained for this? Like, how do you think did they just have a workshop with the show, you wonder, or or do you think they were already jousting knights before they got approached for this?

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Okay, well, so in in in some of the research that I did, I I found like some key people in like the cast, right? So the host, Sean Adams, he was a he was a real life jousting expert. Like he did this stuff like through and through. I I I I don't know, I didn't do that much research into like his full life and everything like that, but he did have years of experience working with horses, probably um doing renaissance things, reenacting. Uh, because a lot of the contestants, uh military veterans, uh MMA fighters, rodeo riders, horse trainers, stunt professionals. Um let's see here. Yeah, so I feel like the the people that they picked for the show. Uh where do I have it? There was a segment I haven't written down. Like there was a prerequisite for even like being on the show. Like you had to have some years or some knowledge of like riding horses, um doing things like that. So it wasn't just like any Joe Schmoe could get on the horses and everything like that. Like you had to know how to do this stuff. And a lot of the like the episode that I'd watched for for this, um, a lot of them had jousting, like theatrical jousting as like what they did for a living. And I can only assume that that means like, okay, they do renaissance fairs, um, things of of that sort. Uh, let's see here, uh jousting today. So modern jousting, there's a practice uh in competitive leagues, uh seen at renaissance fairs and events, uh, yep, theatrical jousting, which is scripted and safer, but then the competition stuff is like real scoring like the show. So yeah, I I feel like it's one of those things where yeah, definitely for the show, they had to have prior knowledge or prior experience. Again, like that you had to have that as a prereq. Um, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Here's a question for you. If uh because uh let's say hypothetically in the future your kid comes to you and is like, Dad, I want to be a professional jouster, like with that level of training, are you hoping like what's one sport that you would rather them do than jousting? And what's one sport that where you're like, please just take up jousting versus doing this? Do you have any of those?

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Alright, alright, all right. So the first question was if if my child comes up to me and says that they want to do jousting, what is an alternate sport that I would want them to do?

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Yeah, like uh you'd rather them do this sport instead.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

I would say uh you see, it's it's so weird because like as as like before having kids and everything like that, and like even being a child, like you don't think about it like you want to play football, you want to play hockey, you want to do all these like contact sports, but then being as a parent, I want my child to be safe. So it's like anything anything where someone's not hitting you or you're getting hurt, do any of those sports, figure skating, um racket sports are phenomenal. Yeah, I I don't know. It's again almost like kind of like what you're talking about. Like, this is an expensive thing, too. Like, I I don't have the finances to buy a horse and like a million poles and everything like that.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Um, kids growing up, you're gonna have to get bigger jousting armor. Yeah, it's just a whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

I don't I don't know. I would say I would say any oh man, I don't know. That's a tough question. Uh any any any non-contact sport, I think I'd be okay with.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

But harder question.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

The harder question is the reverse where your kid comes to you and is like, dad, I want to be a jouster, or no, dad, I want to do this other sport, and you're like, oh, please just do jousting instead.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

I would I would say if they would want to oh man, this is tough. I would say if they wanted to like work at like an alligator farm and like put their head in the jaws of an alligator, I'd be like, can you just do jousting instead? Like, can you I don't I don't know if like the alligator thing is like technically a sport, but oh I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

I'm sure they have a league in Florida.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

What about for you? I guess what would you say?

SPEAKER_02 35:35

Yeah, so as a as a dad myself, I I'm with you. I think even football would be less uh impacty than than uh any other of the jousting that I've seen.

SPEAKER_04 35:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

Um yeah, so I I'd say anything less contact than football would definitely be safer. Um but on the flip side, anything from Harry Potter, like the wizarding games and Quidditch, my kids are fragile, fragile, uncoordinated beings, and I can't imagine them like 500 feet on a you know, up in the air trying to catch a little gold ball. That would be the worst. I'm sorry for taking us down that digression, but I had to ask.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

No, no, that's that's that's perfect. Because again, that's I think that's one of those things where you you don't really you don't really think about it till you think about it. And that's like I I you always hear like, okay, what sport or what would you try to have them do besides like you know X, Y, and Z. But I've never had the question reversed where it's like, okay, what what's an extreme thing where you're like, okay, hey, just please do doubt jousting instead. Don't don't do the other thing.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

I'm gonna start uh skydiving with a wing suit. Uh maybe pick up jousting. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

I don't know. Maybe uh because you don't oh I don't know, that's a tough one.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

Stop because these guys are badasses. I'm not gonna lie. Like watching them take the hits, even though they're all armored up, even though they have like the full face mask and are looking like Iron Man. That would suck to be your job, and like, oh, sorry, I didn't have filming the camera. Could you run it again? Like you're doing this for a TV show.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Well, so like actually, that's that's a good I'm glad you brought that up because I have here like the injuries and the dangers of the show. So um that's why the show didn't last as long as it did. It was only on for one season, 10 episodes, right? Um, but the documented injuries were concussions. At least one contestant uh returned after one. But I'm guessing that there was multiple concussions because it says it has an S at the end of it, so I can only imagine that multiple people had concussions. And I will say two. Yeah, at least two. Um, and the show itself was only shot in 38 days. Oh yeah, so this was something where like probably for four weeks straight, it's just like get hit, get back on the horse, get hit, get back on the horse. And again, kind of like kind of like what you had said. This is TV. So this is something where like if the shot's not right, or you did something, or like you know, yada yada, that they're the show is there to make money. The people who invested into the show, they want the best shots, they want like you know, drama, the yada yada. If they like seeing people getting blown off the horses, like, all right, hey, send them back on, like they're gonna get their money shot. And that's yeah, I think I had said that about last week's episode about uh the American Gladiators 2, where in that show it oh, they they did them dirty, or like they did not have I I could be saying this wrong, but it was like virtually no insurance, or like they were just in the exact same thing, they were shooting multiple episodes in one day. So the gladiators were getting beat down by these fresh contestants day like hour after hour after hour, just like you know, it just gets it was it was intense. So yeah, I feel like kind of like what the gladiators were going through, it's kind of like what the contestants might have gone through with like with this, where it's like, you know, they might be dog shit tired, but based on the contract, because I'm sure that each one of the contestants signed a contract saying, like, hey, you will get back up on this horse if the you know something like if it's not the right shot, or you know, there's always those weird little clauses in there, so I can only imagine it would be really interesting to see if there's a like not like a reunion, but like um contestant tells all yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

So well, and the guys that they selected are gonna be pretty competitive with each other, so you have that peer group, like I'm not gonna be outdone by the cowboy if I'm like this professional jouster, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Yeah, yeah, that's that's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

Gotta dust yourself off and put your broken collarbone back to each other.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Yeah, put your shoulder back into place. That's I think that's another thing too, is like you're getting hit in the same spot, yeah, over and over. Like, I don't know if like I would imagine that that like area must have like a little bit more padding, but still, like it's you're not switching up the like where that armor plate is, you're getting hit in that same spot. So, yeah, almost like if you pop your shoulder out, or if you have a shoulder injury on like on that side, you're done. Like, you're not gonna keep on going. Um, there are a few more things. There's hospitalizations during training uh training, uh, muscle tears, uh, and withdrawals, uh, frequent bruising and high impact uh collisions. Obviously, they were going at like 30 to 40 miles an hour on the horse in that short distance. Yeah. Um, but yeah, there was I'm guessing that's why they even said here that like that's one of the downfalls of the show is like there was just a lot of injuries. So I can only imagine that like the insurance for the show, like they I'm guessing they didn't break, like they probably broke even or like barely made any money on the show, and that's why they didn't get green lit for a season two.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

Yeah, I believe it, especially if they're having to like pay for all the did you say withdrawals was part of the show listed medical stuff?

SPEAKER_01 41:40

I think it was like it says muscle tears and withdrawals. I don't know if that's meaning like they like withdrew from the TV show. Like, I don't know if there was like before the show even like aired or like during airing, there was a couple other contestants and they're like, Oh, this is just too much, and I'm I'm done. I'm sure that's what it means. I'm sure there wasn't like druggies on the show or like I need my fix or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Dude, if I was getting knocked off a horse, I'd be like, listen, I need a drink.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Right. Well, it's it's funny that you say that too, because I it's really interesting. I really do like watching it's like a love-hate relationship. Usually, like reality TV shows like this, the first like one or two seasons are always the best because it's right before like they really start cracking down like on a lot of rules and like a lot of other things. Because if you looked at oh oh fuck, what was it called? Um oh, what was the show? It was I think it was called Fear Factor was was like that. Fear Factor, and there was another one where it was it was UFC, but it was I think it was called Tap Out.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

Okay, yeah, there was that one and Ultimate Fighter was another one.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Ultimate fighter, I think that's what it was. Um, but like the first two seasons or like the first couple of seasons, like they let the contestants drink and like they kept them all in like the same house with no TV or internet or anything like that. So you have all of these fighters just all jacked up, getting drunk, and then like I think one of them like ripped a door off in like one of the first seasons, like trying to get to like another fighter, and then like the seasons after that, they're like, All right, well, let's separate like the two fighters, like you know, and just like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

That show was so perfect, and I'm just imagining now, like, hi, welcome to Joust House.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

There's people like charging their their war horses through the living room and oh, speaking of that, speaking of that, um another like crazy thing that happened on the show, um, and I think he like the the host or whatever said like this tagline or whatever, like after the incident or whatever. But uh one of the contestants like punched a horse in the face.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

What?

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Yes, yeah. And I was like, no, wait, no way. Cause I saw that as like one of the highlight clips on YouTube was like, this person gets kicked off the show. And I watched it and they didn't say what happened. They're like, they just bring the guy in, they're like, I can't believe you did that, yada yada. And the guy was like, What did I do wrong? He's like, I'm not gonna apologize for doing it. And I was like, What did he do? And the next video, like after I got watched, watched it, was like a 20-second clip of the guy. He oh you're in you're in our server, right? Like you can see okay. Let me okay, uh full metal.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

I'm just imagining like this is a red dead moment where you're accidentally trying to feed the horse a turnip and then you punch your horse by accident.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

No, no, like there were this was not by uh this was not by accident by any means. Um he this contestant meant to do this.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

Um it's gonna be an terrible person punching horses. Like that is a C V maker for like who you are.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

Okay, all right. So you you have the you're in Can you see the weird things across the internet? Okay, I watched it. Yeah, I dropped it in there. You tell me what you think. Don't punch a horse in the head. What is wrong with you? Yeah, right. So, okay, all right, let me tell you this. Like, or let me ask you like this, all right, all right, audience members, and like, alright, no judgment. I'm like, I'm whatever. Do you think he was justified? Now, really, really think about this. Like, do you think he was justified by punching the horse in the face because the horse was gonna I don't know if the horse was on his foot or if it like was about to step on his foot. What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 46:12

I think we need to give a fair estimate to your audience too. Like, this was a super Mario, like trying to bust a block above you kind of punch. Like he's jumping and like driving his fist into the horse's head.

SPEAKER_04 46:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Um that was the response to like, well, he was stepping on the foot because he has a nice little accent too. Crazy. Yeah, what do you think? Um, I think if that horse owed him money, it's probably justified.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

I I like so when I told when I told my wife about this clip and everything like that, she's like, Well, horses weigh like a thousand pounds. And I was like, ah, you're right. Like a thousand pounds coming down on your like if you get kicked by a horse, you can die. Yeah, so it's just one of those things where it's like, oh, okay, like I understand, like you want the horse, like his justification was like, I needed to get the horse off my foot fast, which got it. That makes sense, understandable. I don't think he needed to punch the horse in the face, though. Like, especially like with those horses, they feel like they're they're well trained to where you could have maybe like pushed maybe like up on the head, or like I don't know, did something else. I don't think a punch to the face to a horse is smart. I I don't know, that's just me.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

I 100% agree with you. And actually, like speaking from experience from going to one of the little like pony places where it's like, oh, we have all these wonderful horses, gather around children and we'll ride around this this pasture. Uh it was great. But as they're bringing the horse out, it stood on my foot and that you know, thousand plus pounds of animals spread out over the forefeet. So it didn't feel good, like I was a child in boots, but like I survived, I didn't have to punch him in the head. So I'm with you. Definitely not needed to punch a horse in the head unless it owes you money.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Yeah. And like and for the audience members too listening, like if if you want to go go to YouTube and check out the clip, you just type in full metal jousting, punch a horse punched in the face. You'll you'll see the clip. It's 20 seconds. But uh, that's actually one of the things on here, too, is like kind of the controversies and scandals. The contestant's name was Landon Morris, uh and he was removed from the show, like kind of like what I had said. I I watched it was like a minute 30 clip or whatever. He was the host said, you know, no tolerance for you know uh hurting the animals in any sort of way. So yeah, and they even said on the uh before the show too, like there is like huge concerns for like the safe the safety for the animals and like all of that, and even like when they're actually jousting, the animals have like armor on themselves too. So that's that was kind of interesting to see.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

What do you think like the PETA perspective is? Because going back in time, this came out in 2012. Yeah, um, that was pretty strong PETA messaging era. How did this show even get made in your estimation?

SPEAKER_01 49:31

Uh well, so okay, it the show's location, and I don't know if this has anything to do with it too, but the show was located, um, let's see here, it was filmed on at Providence Hill Farm in Jackson, Mississippi. So I don't know if PETA had a strong presence in Mississippi. Like, I feel like, you know, like in also one of these two, like if it's kind of like out in the middle of nowhere, and if this again, like season one, nobody knows that this filming is even going on. Yeah, like I could see, like, you know, first couple seasons PETA's not catching wind of this, but if this show would have kept going, you might have seen like a couple of people like running onto the farm with like you know the signs and all of that stuff trying to let the horses free. Oh, did you see or have you seen that video of um the I I don't know if it's PETA, but it's some sort of animal rights activist groups uh like taking a bunch of dogs from like a farm?

SPEAKER_02 50:41

No, I haven't it I haven't seen it. I wish I I don't know if I saved it or not, but it's it's kind of a it's sad, it really is because kind of where we're supposed to send dogs, like like that's their version of heaven, is like, oh, he's on the farm.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

Yeah, well, I don't think this is that kind of farm.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

No, no, no, but what I'm saying is like that's supposed to be heaven for dogs, and they're like taking dogs away. Yeah, well, all right.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

So the uh it's the these I I think it's like a beagle like breeding farm. I can't I don't know, but it's one of those things where it's like mistreatment to the animals is happening, right? Okay, and these activist groups like go in and they steal a bunch of these beagles or these bunch of these dogs. I think it's beagles.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

Um I totally misread that situation. I imagined like a happy farm with beagles and animals like all playing together, and PETA comes in and is like, we're liberating you.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

No, no, that's what I no. This is the like they're like they're massive the good guys, yeah. And that's the that's the crazy thing about it, too, right? Is that like the owner calls the cops, and then the cops have like are telling like the animal rights people that hey you need to give the dogs back, and then the people are like, You do the right thing, like these dogs are being mistreated, and like all this. I don't know the whole story, but it's it's one of those weird situations, and just like what you had said, like it and everything like that. That just jogs my memory with that clip and everything, but yeah, uh, I I think for the show itself, though, I think they really do take into consideration, and even the host himself, like as soon as that guy punched the horse, he's like, You're you're done. And I think that was a big thing with it, like keep the horses, you know, happy, well fed, and everything like that. And like, even the stable, they the stable that they had there, it was huge, and like I feel like the horses got treated very, very well, and that I mean that's kind of nice to nice to see and everything.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

So I think with a lot of horse sports, there's like a partnership between the rider and the horse, and you you can definitely see that that guy that punched a horse definitely was not digging the whole horse situation. But why do you think they left that scene in? Was it like a message like this is not tolerated, or it makes good TV, or yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

I think it has a little bit to do with both. I think it makes a it makes for like drama, good TV, and kind of like look look at your initial reaction when I told you that. Like you were like so. Yeah, like no, no way. Like, I gotta see this. So I think it is one of those like shock and awe things where that that was the money shot. Like, it wasn't nice that the horse got punched, but we leave it in. People are people tell other people they're gonna draw them to the show, yada yada. I think it's it was a very good technique on the people trying to make money, like, all right, hey, this is let's leave this in here. But then also, too, they followed up, followed it up with look, we don't take, we won't let that to happen again. The person who did that, we kicked them off the show, you know, we take very good care of the animals here, like their like their safety and everything like that. So I think it was a a win-win, and that's why they kept it in. Like, I don't think they wanted it to happen, but because of it, they were able to be like, yo, we take really good care of our horses and our animals here. We it's very professional, but then also, too, like that was a very like holy cow, I did not see that coming.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

Yeah. So I think that with reality TV, like the salacious factor is part of why we get sucked into it. I think that's why like the scripted jousting is also still pretty popular at Renaissance Fairs and Medieval Times. But have you ever been to one of those like Renaissance Fair or Medieval Times shows?

SPEAKER_01 54:49

I I have, but I was very young. I think I was still in grade school, uh, because I remember getting uh like a little wooden shield and sword. Um, but I don't remember much about it. I would love to go to one now and just experience it. Like I I I watched the the movie Cable Guy with Jim Carrey probably like yes once or twice a year, and that scene where he him and uh Matthew Broderick are fighting and everything like that, like they joust and everything. Like it just seems like it would be a really, really fun time uh to go do something like that.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

A buddy of mine uh actually just took his family there, and it very much is still that it's like the four corners, and wherever you're sitting is like the color of knight you're cheering for, so it's very like professional wrestler. Like, oh, the black knight's always the bad guy, and like the yellow knight comes rolling in, and it's yeah, they give them all like creative names and different armor so that you can tell they characterize it a lot.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

Um, I I gotta see if there's something like that around here where I live. If uh or I I'd I would be willing to travel, I would say two to three hours. I'm gonna look at like in a in a bubble around that at four hours, yeah, but like I would drive three hours to go see something like this. I think I'd be down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:20

Um, I've I've been a couple years ago. Uh, one of my buddies that helped me found the most millennial podcast, he and I went to a uh Renaissance fair and uh watched the jousting, and it's they do it the same way as medieval times. Like it's very much you cheer for your night and you boo for the other one, and they try to get you in on the show just as much as the actors. It's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Oh, that is so cool. I'm definitely gonna have to look into it and and see if there is anything. Uh, but yeah, the the TV show itself, it was only on for one season, 10 episodes. It it it was it was a very interesting episode and like TV show. Um something that uh Tristan he was on last week and he was helping me with the uh American Gladiators episode. Um, and I had asked him kind of the same question, like why why did a show like that again? That show was on for I believe like seven or eight seasons. Um, and I think some of the research that I found was that it just kind of got old after a while. It was like the same routine over and over and over again. Yeah. This show, or yeah, again, this show only lasted for one season, but do you think people would have gotten fatigue from this show as well? Or do you think this if if it did well, do you think people would still you know be interested in it? Because kind of like it is one of those things where it's like, oh, that's my rider. Like I love love that guy, he always knocks people off the horse type thing. I feel like it could be really that.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

I think it could if it's like if they try to do it like Survivor or something where it's an all-new cast each season, and like oh, there's a surprise night, and guess what? It's the winner from last season. Like they could maybe milk it that way, but it's hard to see guy it like you were mentioning, it's guys getting knocked off the horse over and over and over. Um, how do you make that novel to the American audience? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

I I almost think if it was and don't get me wrong, like getting knocked off a horse at 30 miles an hour, the last thing that you're gonna want to do is like get up and like fight somebody. But if they added like something more to it, where it's like, all right, like as soon as you get knocked off, you have to shed your armor and now like you do hand-to-hand combat with someone, or now you have to like go run a mile and like do all these other tasks, it might have like because I look at look at the show like uh American Ninja Warrior or just Ninja Warrior in general, like where they do the obstacle course, right? Yeah, like how did that show, like how did that show itself like it it stayed like pretty much the same thing. It was just people going through an obstacle course. Like, how did that how are people so intrigued with that as it's compared to like something like this? Because again, it's like all right, people climbing a ladder, like whoo, like how I don't understand, like again, that's it's just so weird to me how some things can stick and then other things just fade away.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

I think it's you bring up a really good point. Like the thing with Ninja Warrior is you fell in love with the personalities and the stories that were presented to you, like this person just needs this winning so that they can help their mom buy a house, and it's like you get very invested in the people versus I think full metal jousting, everybody's armor looks pretty similar when they were actually like pizzer down, if not exactly identical, like there was a little color variation, but like it's hard to tell them apart, and I think that's what medieval times and the theatrical ones do really well is now you're looking at very visually distinct jousters, and uh that allows you to kind of carry the story a little bit further than just like two guys running at each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

Well, so well, two things, right? Is that I feel like if they wanted to like personalize like the full metal jousting too, right? Is like allow them to like customize their helmet, like what type of like you know, do they want feathers on top of it, or do they want to ride with like a cape or something like that? Like very make it very kind of like unique to the person. Um, so it's like, yeah, that that's that's my rider, that's the guy that I always go for because he's really good. But like you look at American Ninja Warrior 2, and I was just I was just thinking about this as you were talking, is like they can change up the obstacles. Like, I don't think it's always the same. I think, yeah, they do reuse some of the same obstacle things, but like I think always a twist, yeah. Or like this season, like they added one more step, or like there's this obstacle, so you like you don't know what's coming. Yes, you know it's gonna be an obstacle course, because obviously that's the show, but there might be like a very challenging piece where I think like one of them is like they have to, it's not monkey bars, it's like circles drilled into the ceiling, it's like a light bulb, only it's like you know, metal, obviously, and they have to hold on to those, but it's like barely enough to like grab onto. And my hands are sweating just thinking thinking about it. So I don't like I don't know how they're able to like grip that. So again, like that's that that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

Um, so as you're describing that, like both of the sports I encouraged my potential jouster child to avoid were heist sports. I think I think that would be another one where I'd be like, no, please use jousting.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

Wait, so you're you're saying you would rather have your your child do jousting than the American Ninja Warrior?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

Uh as I think about it again, probably not, but they are super uncoordinated. I'd have to see how they do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

Well, that's that's good then. They'll always fail at the very first obstacle, and then you have nothing to worry about.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:27

Exactly. Like you tripped when he said go. Like it, I don't know what to tell you. Anyway, we'll come to next week's tournament at five in the morning on a Saturday. Yeah, yeah, right. No, that's go ahead, go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna say, I think you brought bring up a good point that they kind of explored the depths of jousting as it is, and to make it a multi-season event, they would have had to add something else. But do you think that they could bring the show back? Do you think they they could do like a 2026 jousting show?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

I I think they could well so crazy that you say that is because they're bringing back American Gladiator. They tried to in 2018, it was only on for like a season, then it went away, and now they're trying to bring it back again. So I'm not gonna say that it's yeah, yeah, it's I think actually in yeah, this this month it comes out. I I don't remember the exact day, but in April it's supposed to come out. I'll try to find it. Um, but yeah, there I I always think that there's a possibility, but again, the the insurance and like the just the logistics and how much it cost, I'm sure like again, we talked about the injuries. It you would have to find a way to bring it back, but also you know, keep it interesting. Now, if like it would be now this would be interesting, right? Is that if a part of the scoring thing was that if you didn't hit the other jouster, you continue down, and then you go to like a circle arena still on your horse, but now you pull out a sword and you try to wrestle the other person off like their horse. But again, that then you're coming into the safety with the animals and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

So I wonder if tech could solve the problem, like having some sort of wield cart or something, like it's gonna replace horses altogether. Now it's gonna look like jackass. Yes, I think we found our sport, jackass jousting.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:36

Ah, yeah. I I think they it's it's very possible that it could come back. Do I personally think it will? No, just because I think again, yeah, you're not only do you have to take care of the competitors, but you have to take care of the animals themselves too. So I think it it is it does cost a lot. And I think if they're gonna have to find someone or a network or somebody who's willing to foot that bill, but then also too, kind of like what we were saying, make it unique in a way where you're gonna want people to come back because the fact that this one was only on for one season, yeah, I don't I think that's gonna be one of those where it's like, ah, how are you gonna beat one season? Like, you got to guarantee that you know you're at least gonna do like three or four, maybe even five seasons with what you have going on. Like that as an investor or someone, like if someone came to me and was like, Hey, I want to bring back Full Metal Joustine, based on the show that it was, I'd be like, All right, yeah, but yeah, I want a five-year plan. Like, I want a five seasons. Like, how are you gonna make how are you gonna beat the last season? And how are you gonna bring in viewers to this show? Um, that I think that's just me personally. I but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:49

I agree, and I think you putting yourself in a uh executive, like network executive role is a really cool idea. A lot of shows are made on streaming platforms now and There's like Beast games that is being put on Amazon Prime. Yeah, yeah. Like, how do you compete with that as a jousting show? There's no way.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:10

Yeah, that's and maybe that's almost okay. But before I ask you this question, I guess for you, how would you or what would you say as far as like, do you think it would could come back?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:22

Not in this format. I I think the jackass idea has a little bit more footing. And if it if we could somehow like make this a frat bro version where they're able to like hoverboard in at each other and try to beer pong on each other before the other one does, I think that might have a little bit more footing, but then we're getting back into reality TV versus like a competition.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

And and I think that's like that's where the struggle is because like this it's wanting, it's you're try you you're taking a very traditional sport, and I get where they're going where it's like, you know, this is what it was like, and let's keep it like this. Let's you know, let's stay true to the actual sport. And I like I envy that that's that should be done, but I also think we live in a time where people don't want to see that. People want to see, you know, like something grand. And I think, and as weird as this may sound, and this is what I was gonna say before I asked you the question, was I think they almost have to dumb it down. Like, how would how would a TikTok person make jousting interesting? Or like how would an influencer make jousting interesting? And then that's just how you have to kind of go about it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:37

Well, that's a great point because that's how Netflix is actually making all of their shows, is it's supposed to be a second screen show, so that means that you're either working or you're studying, or you have like your phone up and the shows on in the background. We this would have to be dumbed way down as far as like hit horse bad, hit guy good. Yes, yes, because it was at least a two-minute segment with the guy explaining the rules in the first episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:09

Yeah, yeah, and that's that was and oh, I I can't remember. It was some interview uh that I saw about someone making movies now was like, why are movies like terrible? And it's because people's attention span is just like it's not there. You you're dealing with an audience member that are that is glued to their phone, and like you have to keep them interested, and that you have to explain every little thing that's going on in the movie. Whereas like movies back in the day, you didn't really have to do that. I'm not saying all movies nowadays that's how it is, but a majority of like why movies like aren't as good as they used to be is because like yeah, it's it's just people's attention span. Like it yeah, I yeah, it's you the whole doom scrolling thing, and now we're getting way off topic with from from jousting, but yeah, I don't know. It's it it definitely would be something where you have to uh think outside the box with this one, but I uh I do I do think it's cool that they tried to stay as true to the actual sport as they did.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:13

I do too. And you know, credit to History Channel for actually making this like a historical as as historical as they did. Like that was really cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:26

Um now now again, if you had this show like on Comedy Central or something like that, then I think you you're on to something with like, all right, instead of horses, we're gonna use in four-wheelers, um and stuff like that, where it's like, all right, yeah, it's it's kind of quirky, it's kind of whatever. I think depending on which network would pick it up, would depend on because like kind of like what you'd said, the hit the history channel. They're not gonna have the they're not gonna have them on four-wheelers. Yeah. So if you had it like uh like MTV or some weird show like that, Spike TV, Spike TV is not a thing anymore, but um, I'm a millennial, I I remember Spike TV von weird network, but yeah. I think yeah, depending on the network, then you could change it up.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:08

So yeah, exactly. Like I I think there's a reason why the sport died out you know, 500 years ago. I think it's cool. Can you believe that? 500 years uh 450-ish years ago, that's when uh King Henry II died. That's and we're still doing a sport from that era.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:29

I mean that's pretty cool. If you think about it, that's that's really cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:34

Now that's it, like with it being popular, yeah, there's gonna be some people that keep that alive. I think that's kind of the same as like um I don't know, uh when you go to any of the historical reenactment stuff. Whether that's a revolutionary war or or whatever, um it's cool seeing that there's small leech groups that just keep that that tradition rolling.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:00

Yeah. No, that that it is. And and I I'm gonna try to find some more sports things that we can talk about as far as like for this month, maybe kind of like this as well. Um we're gonna cover roller derby because that's an interesting one. But I'm wondering if there's if there's any other kind of weird sport like this. Now that you say that, like can you think of any other odd sports that are kind of like jousting that are kind of like you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:36

Uh have you covered the Highland games? No, what is that? Oh, you're gonna love it so much, man. Like, it's literally imagine like a uh uh Highland Scotsman full kilt, like throwing a giant telephone pole or seeing how far you can throw a rock. Like it's it's strongman competitions, uh, but it's also like about accuracy and speed. It's it's really cool. You should check it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:06

Maybe we maybe we can do that. All right, so what I'm thinking for, because usually at the end of the month, um we have a a live fishbowl episode where I I stick a bunch of random topics in a fishbowl, I spin a wheel, and whatever it lands on, we talk about it. I will see if there's enough information to do an episode on the Highlander games. I'm sure there is. Yeah. Um button on ESPN every year. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, okay. Then there might be enough information there then because uh yeah, shit. There's only 38 days of an episode on Full Metal Joustin, and we've talked about it for almost an hour now. So I think we could do an episode on that. Um, cool. Yeah, I'll definitely look into that. I'll see if uh if I can make something work on that.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:56

Looking at this, it's been going on since uh like early thousands, like 1031 is one of the dates here that it's referenced.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

Jeez, okay. I think yeah, we got about a thousand years of information. I think we're good.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:13

Exactly. Yeah, if if you ever see a Scotsman with a telephone pole, it's probably time to get out of there. Like run away. Well, sweet man, this has been really fun talking about jousting, and uh I I'm glad that I got to share that whole story about childhood and how I got into this.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:32

No, I really I really do appreciate you taking the time to come on the show and you know, you know, us talking about it. Cause yeah, this was this was definitely one of those things where when I saw it, I was like, I I want to talk about this and just see what other information there is. And just it's it's very interesting. And um, yeah, I'm glad I'm glad you stopped by. I'm glad you you know threw some cool information about like again, someone like one of the kings, Kenry King Henry the Second. Yep, of France. Yep, of France dying from yeah, yeah. So thank you. Thank you so much for yeah, for taking the time to come on and talk with me.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:07

Yeah, man, this has been a lot of fun. Um, if you ever need another guest to talk about jousting again, I'm happy to come back for a sequel.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:16

I don't know, I don't know if there's gonna be anything else.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:19

Yeah, no, I think we covered it, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:21

Unless they make a season two, I don't know if we have anything else, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:26

Yeah, man, this has been a blast. It's been really fun talking with you. You're very easy to talk to, and I love listening to your show and uh hearing about all the F and weird stuff out there. So thank you.

unknown 1:15:12

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