Off in the Reeds- Episode 3 with Melissa Sifjardóttir

This week on Off in the Reeds Podcast, we're joined by special guest Melissa Sifjardóttir of Sif's Sniffs. An active practitioner of magick, we discuss everything from channeling the Norse pantheon to Big Girls Wanted: Escaping Pearadise in this episode. 

Melissa shares her experiences in a cult, discusses her involvement in feederism, and talks about the events that led her to change the course of her life. It's an open conversation about difficult experiences, personal growth, and what life looks like after leaving those chapters behind.

Content Warning: This episode includes discussions of cults, abuse, coercive relationships, trauma, and eating-related topics that may be difficult for some listeners.

If you are an experiencer or seeker wishing to share your story, or if you'd like to come on the show and get "Off in the Reeds," please email us at Podcast@MostMillennial.Media 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:13

I've had wild experiences. I think like highlights are I had a dude in France and a dude in Australia offer to move me and all of my shit if I was willing to marry them and become a mobile. And a mobile is so big that you can't move anymore. If you look at the history of witchcraft, so much of it was experimentation before the scientific method was like an actual thing.

unknown 0:50

I know that the paranormal is real. Listen.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Good morning. This is a special morning edition of Off in the Reeds, and uh I'm your host, Reed. I'm joined by our co-host Melissa. Um very special return guest from a previous podcast uh project called the Most Millennial Podcast. Um she's been on for a couple episodes with us, a friend of most millennial media and friend of the pod and friend of me. It's been really good catching up with you a little bit off-air and hearing how life's been treating you and uh yeah, all kinds of big updates, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Um, there's a pun there. Big updates.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Unintentional. But yeah, uh why don't we jump right into the HBO Max show, uh Big Girls Wanted, Escaping Paradise. Yeah, Escaping Paradise.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

So uh I'm Melissa, Sif Your Daughter, and the reason I really I hit up Reed to be like, hey, we need to talk about this, is because it's basically a feudalism cult. Yeah um and I did both of these things separately. I did not do them combined, as is in this documentary. I decided, you know, to make these things two different things. Uh, but I was involved in feudalism for like years, I want to say like at least 15 years. I got involved when I was 17. Uh and then I was also in a Viking witch cult. So, and I the my favorite part of talking about how I was in a Viking witch cult is that I am a licensed therapist and I went to work on a second master's to specialize in being a cult deprogrammer, and I stopped working on that degree because my cult leader told me to. Um, so I know a lot about cults and the cult experience, not just from a clinical perspective, but also from experiencing it firsthand. Uh, and I was in the theaterism world for years, and it even destroyed my marriage. So that's cool too.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

I wouldn't say I wouldn't say cool too, but this is like you have the most first hand experience. Like you are the expert on this subject matter, and it's it's I don't know, it's humbling to be able to like talk to you about doing these things and all the badass shit that you've actually gotten through. So thank you for coming on the pod and and bringing this to my attention because I am a cheap bastard and do not have the hobo max.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Oh, so what you're saying is you don't watch The Last of Us, so you're not lusting after Pedro Pascal like the rest of us.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

I have not seen The Last of Us. Yeah. Um, so yeah, uh to give a little bit of a recap for the show Big Girls Wanted Escaping Paradise, there is a TikTok house that was purchased by a man in Nevada in Las Vegas, and he puts an ad out basically that he wants to have feedies come and live in his house.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

In the beginning of the pandemic, which I think is also really important because I joined my cult during the pandemic as well. Um, and originally he set it up on TikTok to be a just place for big girls to hang out with one another, find community in a body positive space.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

That's the key phrase there. He can't and he keeps using body positive. Uh Stefan, uh, what's his name? I uh I can't think German guy.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Yeah, everybody's just been referring to him as the creepy German guy, and I love this for the internet that we don't even want to talk his actual name, just creepy German guy.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Yeah, from here on out, we'll call him the creepy German guy. And he reminded me of the body worlds guy because his accent is very, very similar. And do you remember the body worlds where it was like the plasticine anatomist guy? I I work in medicine, and so this guy he has like this Undertaker flat brim hat and he does like dissections, and he's like, First, if you're going to have to cut the clavicle, and then he's like grunting as you hear cracking. It's actually horrifying and incredibly educational because he plastoscenes and dissects these people so that they're like holding an apple and looking at it, and you see each muscle that's involved in that process. But circling back, Stefan Wilhelmie has the exact same sort of like soft-spoken, scary, like villain from a Bond movie accent.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah, yeah. Um I think that he's trying to maybe save face a little bit with this show. Do you think that he was trying to like present himself in a better light? Or what why do you think he would even participate in this after he's had so many allegations and had to go to court and all of it?

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Well, all cult leaders get high on their own supply.

unknown 6:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

I think that that's an important thing when we look at this as being a cult, right? And regardless of whether or not we want to say it's a cult definitively, there's definitely cult dynamics there. Yeah. And cult leaders in general are constantly surrounded by guest people, right? Like, even with all the allegations, there's still a bunch of women who stepped right up to the bat to talk about how great he is. And I think when you're surrounded by that for at this point, six years, yeah, that eventually you're gonna be like, Oh yeah, I know exactly what's going on. And I'm correct because I have a litany of people who all condone all of my behavior.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

That that's a great segue to kind of talk about like the emotion. So the bite model is uh referring to cults, how they control the people that are in their cults, uh and it's behavior control, information control, thought control, emotion control. Right out of the gate, like having it a body positive space, you're supposed to feel good about it. Like this is a good place. This is like like body positivity is a good thing, objectively. And so if you take something that is objectively good, you can sometimes like I think what he's done is twisted it into something that is very self-serving.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

And I think that he's also using a very vulnerable population, yes, right? One of the things that does happen, and it was portrayed in the documentary really well, is that oftentimes women who are bigger, and I think men who are bigger, as someone who's currently dating someone who's also big themselves, like I think people who are living in larger bodies get that they are told they are unlovable from jump, right? Me and this guy that I'm seeing both have horror stories of being like single-digit ages and part of Weight Watchers.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

That's insane.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Told that we needed to be smaller from such a young age, and I think when you experience that your whole life and you're told that you're unlovable. What the hell is text me? Sorry. Um but when you're told that you're unlovable, and then you go to this place where you're fucking worshipped as a goddess, and then you have this social media reinforcement that you're gonna not only just feel good about yourself, but you're gonna want that and think that it can only happen there and only under the certain circumstance.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Right. Yeah. No, I think that's an incredible point to make, too. Um a lot of these women were also much younger than Stefan, and so there's the power dynamic of almost like this morality play that we put on people's weight. And now there's also like this age dynamic where there's this older, wiser, like, I don't know, wealthier person who is setting up all of these power dynamic uh power uh like an asymmetric relationship where now he's inviting people into his home to be his people, to be. There's so many things at play that are very familiar with the cult dynamic here as well. And so I don't think I think for our purposes we can call this a cult, even if it's just a cult of personality.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah, and also this like idea that you live there for free, but you also have to clean and cook and do tasks around the house and be part of the social media that you're not making money from, because that's all going to him.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Yeah, like isn't that slavery?

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Well, that's where it gets super culty in like the traditional what we think of as a cult cult dynamic.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

Right. Is this idea of like now this is your life, and you may not have signed up to be there forever.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Well, and when you were in the uh the Viking cult and had to like completely rearrange career and start making money for the cult leader, that is I mean, you're that's the same as moving into this house and having to perform on TikTok. I don't know. Uh yeah, I think for our purposes, this is a cult.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah, well, I think with my situation, I luckily got to stay in my house the whole time. I didn't have to go anywhere outside of these like you know, retreats and random Airbnbs and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Um, so I think like there was a little bit more separation in my particular cult, but I do think that if we had a house where we were all living, same shit would have applied.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah. Do you think that that I don't know, makes it easier for the creepy German guy to control to control these people, like having 24-hour access to these poor girls? Or I don't know. Uh what do you what's your thought of the house itself? Because I I feel like it's almost like a character in the story itself, is that he has now bought this house to set up like his weird fiefdom sort of situation.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

I think it can go twofold. I think it does make it easier to leave in that when you leave it's more of a separation, right? Like, then you could go back to your regular life and have it just be like that isolated thing that you did in Vegas.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Facts, right? Like so we could just kind of keep it there in this house, right? But the problem is getting to that point that you walk out, right? And I when we talk about cults, usually it's people have this realization of how culty it is, and that's how they leave, right? It's the experience of all of these women saying, like, hey, I was sexually assaulted, and then seeing evidence of it, and just being like, oh shit, maybe this is correct.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

One of the analogies that they keep talking about in cult deprogramming spaces is that often in a cult we come up against something that contradicts either the teachings or it contradicts some of what we learned in the experience, right? Or it the leader contradicts themselves and we put on the shelf, and we just put on the shelf for later, put it on the shelf, but eventually the shelf gets too heavy and it breaks.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

Because it's full of stuff, and there were a lot of women there who put stuff on the shelf, put stuff on the shelf, and then eventually when it broke, we're like, oh, this whole thing was abusive and manipulative, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yeah, and it's one of those things where like the body positive like body positivity is a good thing, and and with it being used and subverted into like personal gain, I'm sure that that's one of those things that gets on the shelf where it's like, wait, no, that was sexual assault. That wasn't something that was fun for everybody. That was him using manipulative techniques to get what he wanted out of this.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Um, what were some I personally, and this is just me as a fat person who is still mildly fat, although much less fat than I used to be.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

That is so humbly stated. Like, you are now a fitness instructor, you're like super active, you do all of the shit. Like, that was so humble.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

I've lost 300 pounds and counting. Yeah. Um, so I as a person who has been super big, right? I think on occasion, not all of the time, sometimes body positivity is occasionally used as justification of behavior. And I think the overall message of like everybody's body is different and that we shouldn't hate someone because of their body and shouldn't discriminate, that is all great messaging, right? But I do think that people like Stefan can pervert it into your body is as great is great the way it is, so have another donut.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Right. And that leads to some very real health problems that were kind of displayed on this show where they're actually having to call 911 and multiple times, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Two different people, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

I I didn't see both of those. I haven't had a chance to dive in as deep as you have on this, but I know, but I need to now. Yeah. Um yeah, what I don't know. I I hear what you're saying. What is your line as far as like body positivity as that overall, like everybody has a body, love the body that you have? How general do we get with that before it becomes I don't know, something that that could be dangerous or manipulative or or used to justify, like you said? Like what do you have a hard line for that or is is there like just individual lines for each person?

SPEAKER_02 17:10

There's a term, particularly in the eating disorder space, called body neutrality.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

And I tend to be more on the side of body neutrality where it's not my body is the least exciting part about me.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Right? And my body is mostly just a vessel for me to run my company, or kick ass as a fitness instructor, or lift heavy shit, right? Like my body is just a vessel, so I am gonna have a net neutral perspective on it rather than thinking of it in one way or another. Okay, and I think that body positivity, particularly in a world that has ridiculous amounts of fat phobia, there is absolutely a space for it. But when we look at people with eating disorders, and this documentary definitely covers a lot of people with like binge eating disorder, and some people talk about purging, and eating disorders are a big part of living in a larger body for a lot of us. Um, and I think we need to move away from body positivity and just be like, oh, it's great regardless, and be like, hey, maybe we stop focusing on the body itself and more of what it is capable of doing.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

I like that approach too. Um you brought something up while we were off here that I thought was a really strong point as well. Like, your body needs food to survive. Evolution has put us so that there is huge rewards for us eating food. Like the dopamine that we receive from that is just immense. And then with the feederism feedy or feeder-feedy dynamic, now you're throwing sex in there, also, which is a huge evolutionary drive. And now we have dopamine on dopamine.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

And oxytocin.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

And oxytocin, so you're reinforcing everything there too, and having that relationship there reinforced between food, sex, this people, all of it, like soci uh social acceptance, all of these very real needs for people to exist and to live. I see why this is so difficult for people to get out of once once that unhealthy relationship is there with some of like in this particular show and this particular experience, he kind of just needed people to get in the door, and then he's got them.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Yeah. Like, yeah, and then they're making money too. Like that, fortunately for me, that was never a thing where it was never my primary source of income, right? Uh, but yeah, if it's your career and it's how you pay your bills, and you're getting emotional validation, you're getting all the clicks, all the likes, all of the social media impact, and you're getting food and laid, that's really hard to give up.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's that's yeah, you see how that is like a very attractive offer for anybody. Um how uh do you do you mind sharing a little bit more about your relationship with feederism?

SPEAKER_02 20:58

So when I was 17, um a person at the library where I worked told me about feudurism stuff. Uh she told me about like chubby chasers and like the larger world of chubby chasers, which then kind of spiraled down.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

I was worried because it sounded a little bit like grooming how you first started the story.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

She was she was a girl. She was fine. We love her to death. I don't even remember her name, which is wild. Um but when I found the world of theaterism, it made a lot of stuff click for me because I had been younger and like I was definitely the kid who loved stuffing stuffed animals into my clothing, loved when cartoons got fatter. Um I was always looking at like really like weird words for fat, like corpulent or percy, um, for A long time one of my usernames on the Feuderism website was Percy. Um P-U-R-S-Y, because it means short-winded because of corpulence. Um, and that's the sort of thing that like from me being little, I was doing stuff around feudalism. And then when I found out that there was a world for it when I was 18, uh, because my birthday is in August, so it was like right around time the time that I was like just leaving 17 when I found out about Chubby Chasers. So or FAs as they're technically called, because FA is a fat admirer. Chubby Chaser is like what my mom used to call them growing up. And yeah, there's modern lingo now. Yeah, yeah. Well, because if growing up, my mom was 300 over 300 pounds for almost my entire life. So it was never a thing. Not that I grew up with like the modern definition of body positivity, but my like aunts and uncles and like my larger family definitely said no, you have to get small to get married. But my mom was kind of like, I wasn't small when I got married, so like fuck it, we ball.

SPEAKER_03 23:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Um, and that had been a thing on like my mom's side of the family. Like, I had an aunt who used to talk about my great uncle that he was a guy that just loved you chubby. Uh but wait, we have to do that with like the hella long island accent. So it's gonna, oh my god, he just loved you chubby.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Um that made me feel right at home. Uh my wife's family is from that area, and so a lot of friends definitely like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Yeah. Uh we love Auntie for that one.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Um, but that so that was never like a thing. It was more of just like FAs are these unicorns that like they exist in the world, and they also get judged, so like don't hate on them, and eventually one will come across, like, come along the way. Um, and then when I found the world of theaterism, it was batshit insane because it got I've had wild experiences. I think like highlights are I had a dude in France and a dude in Australia offer to move me and all of my shit if I was willing to marry them and become a mobile, and a mobile is so big that you can't move anymore. Um I had a guy take a job in the Hamptons to be closer to me without even talking to me. Uh I had like Oh, yeah. And then he looked like an Abercrombie model. Okay. So I was this like Long Island Guido with puffy hair, uh accent and glasses, and then we've got this like, he was a ski instructor actually in Colorado, because I'm moving to Colorado now, so hopefully he doesn't show up again. But uh like, yeah, so he was a ski instructor, so during the summer he was like, Oh, I'm gonna work in the Hamptons so I can be closer to Melissa. Um, and I have a bunch of crazy stories of people, you know, coming to New York and being like, hey Melissa, I'm in town on such and such date. Can I hang out with you? And being like, alright, because I think there were for a really long time, and I've walked away from it, the there was this concept of well, they're stereotypically attractive, so I'm gonna date them because they're stereotypically attractive.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Even if they're an asshole.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Gotcha. Yeah, and which is the least attractive way to be.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Yeah, yeah. Oh, like the like the ski instructor was a horse. Wait, he was a horrible. Like, I don't know what words I was combining there, but he was horrible. And like, but I was like, ah, I gotta entertain him. He buys me pizza and looks like he could be on Abercrombie back. Like, I have to do something. And then eventually I was like, no.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Yeah. No, thank you for thank you for sharing that um and giving a little bit more insight as far as like how you get got into that. Um from past conversations, I know like the online world kind of silos and and brings like filters by algorithm those people together as well. Um do you think that this would have been possible in like a pre-internet world, or what are your thoughts as far as like the internet's role and and all of it? Because this house was a TikTok house, like it kind of was funded and fueled by TikTok. If you don't mind, yeah, just kind of like what's the role of internet in some of these like fetish groups and cults.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Well, as a it's funny Pico. So because I'm in the process of getting divorced, but now I'm on like the apps, or I've been on the apps, yeah. And the closest person to me is actually a theater.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

On one of the apps that like the closest person to me that match with me is actually a theater.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

Um, which is wild because how did that feel emotionally?

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Like that had to be kind of a weird like emotional thing when you're like, huh. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

At this point, I've experienced enough crazy shit read that like not surprised. Alright.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

It's one of those things when like whoever in the Norse belief system we have the Norns, which are kind of like the fates. I'm like, and the Norns also have the dice here, which is like it's complicated. But basically, whoever is in charge of like making plans in my life is like, hey, I'm gonna just spice shit up for the plot. So I'm not surprised at this point, because I'm just like, yeah, of course, that would be the closest fucker to me on this app is like the theater. Of course, right? I'm not surprised. But besides that, uh, I do think that like I was talking to him because I was just like, hey, that's weird. Uh and I was saying how I'm an old fat because I was there like in the message board times.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

And because we were talking like 2004, 2005, Elder Millennial, as we know.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

We've talked about that. Yeah, we're the OGs of the internet. We remember the first time that we had that AOL dial-up sound.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

Oh gosh. Or albino black sheep. I feel like that is a niche internet thing that there's only we we could tell who you are if you know albino black sheep. Um I have to go on this tangent because it's a really fucking funny tangent.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

So back when Flash and like Albino Black Sheep was a thing, there was a video called I Want a Fat Babe, which was a parody of I Want It That Way by the Backstreet Boys.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

And I am so used to singing the lyrics to that particular version, just like because I've been in the Theaterism world and the whole Theaterism world got like super into that parody when it came out.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

But one of my last days working with teens before I quit, because my cult later told me to, I want it that way, was like playing because we had to dance as like the last week between Christmas and New Year's. And I started singing the lyrics to I Want a Fat Babe, and had to really correct like correct myself because I'm like, these kids cannot fucking know. And I'm like, I need to keep that on the DL. And like I got like, I want to say like three or four lines in before I was like, oh no, no.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Can't tip my hand.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Damn it!

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Keep it per fresh, keep it perf.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Keep it perf. Can't can't out myself. What's funny too is that oftentimes I would talk to the kids, not saying theaterism specifically, but saying, like, Miss Melissa knows what it's like to have to keep a secret about yourself and your identity from the people around you because you're afraid of getting judged, right? Because we had a lot of trans kids or a lot of non-binary kids. And oftentimes when we would talk about developing empathy, I would say, like, Miss Melissa knows what that's like. She might not be trans, right? She might not be non-binary, but she knows what it's like to have to hide a piece of your identity. And then when that came up, I was like, oh no, please don't put two and two together, guys, because that's gonna be really awkward for me.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

There's the one kid who just like turns and makes eye contact.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

I see what you're doing. That's awesome. Yeah, that's that's pretty good. But I think it existed, right? Like, I think it's existed since the dawn of time. It just hasn't like we know that queer people existed for ages.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Just usually, if you're like me when I was 11 years old and drinking an entire two-liter bottle of soda to see my belly move like liquid, right? I just thought it was fucking weird.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

And now the internet is just like, hey, you know that thing that you thought was super weird. Turns out there's like a whole FETLife page for that shit now. And you're not as weird as you think that you are.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

So which is beautiful because then that's like you're you kind of find your tribe through the algorithm sometimes too.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Yeah. So you think like there's great parts of having the algorithm figure your shit out, and then there's also some really not great parts when it's all you're seeing all the time, and it makes you feel like that's what the world is really like.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Yeah. I yeah, and kind of going back to Mr. Stefan, creepy German guy.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

He We should do it just like initials.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

CGG?

SPEAKER_01 33:24

CGG.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

CGG.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

I think that he found his tribe, but he weaponized it.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

And he And moneted monetized it.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Yeah, uh, yeah, exactly. Um what do you think about the like I don't know, there's money to be made in all of the algorithms as well, and and in finding your tribe. What's your take as far as when that becomes unethical or when that becomes problematic, or like there's so many things that CGG did did wrong in exploiting people. I think the exploitation is one of the big markers of of it being immoral, but what what sort of things are like warning signs is I guess what I'm trying to ask, for when something starts to become like that dangerous monetization of people's interests.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

I think when your will gets corrupted, or like your free will gets corrupted.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Because like I was 540 pounds, and I was, for the most part, happy as a clam. Right? And looking back on it, like I have permanent liver damage from doing like 3,000 calorie weight gain shakes that will probably never go to w go away. Um and I have a ton of excess skin all over my body that will also probably not go away, at least anytime soon, until I like hit them, like become a millionaire. Um and I think like at the time I was super happy. And as long as the people can like really sit with themselves and say that they are okay and legitimately making a decision that they are okay with, we should let them. Like, adults are allowed to do adult shit.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

And we may judge it and we may not think that it's super cool, but I can tell you when I was like, there was one point where I gained 40 pounds in a month, and I was happy as shit to do it, right? And I knew what I was doing, I knew the health consequences, I knew what I like I fully in a hundred percent sound mind made that decision. Now I'm like, you fucking dumbass. But at the time, I made it like knowingly and willingly, and I think that if these people are authentically happy having sex in a hot tub, um, and being watched on camera and all of the other stuff, as long as he's not like creepy German guy is not withholding any information from them and they are able to make full decisions, yeah, let them.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Yeah, I I think you're putting a finger the like consent. Consent is the biggest word, and informed consent is the biggest thing there. Um I I my profession is in the medical world, and so uh I always kind of have that lens, even when I'm trying not to. But as you're talking about this, like addiction is something that I kind of work with a lot. And when you're talking about addiction, that like alcohol is one of the biggest addictions out there. And a lot of the people that are having health problems due to alcoholism, they don't want to quit, and they they don't want to change, and they they they are happy with where they are because uh what alcohol fills in their life. Um, and even giving like all of the information and even giving all of that uh, you know, potential consequences and all of like it is a consensual decision. It is a it's legal for them to choose what they want to choose. They're uh aware of the consequences to themselves and to their health and to potential relationships or whatever. I can't be like, no, that's that's this is hurting you. Can't you see what you're doing? You're tearing this family apart. Like, no, I'm not gonna do that. They want that, and it I can provide help when they want help with certain things. Um but I think that that that they're they're consenting, they're they're adults, they're choosing their lives. I can't choose that for them. Um I don't know, I just see a lot of overlap. Do you see I guess what are your thoughts as far as like the addiction side of things going back to it? Because this is like a very addicting lifestyle. There's money, sex, food, everything there that you could ever want. Um shifting that conversation to, I guess, substances too. What is your take on like people using? Do you think that we should decriminalize decriminalize substances or or like just off of the whole consent conversation? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 39:15

Well, I think, and this is something that's come up for me a lot, especially now with like the bigger talk around GLP1s, everybody's talking about food noise and how like oh, I had so much food noise, and then I started Wagovi, Ozempic, Manjaro, Zeppelin, whatever the fuck, right? Yeah, and now it went away, right? And what I think is so interesting is as I have conversations with people who are on GLP1s, they're like, Yeah, you know, it's great that the food noise went away. And I'm like, I didn't really have food noise after like I started working on myself. Like, granted, I've had bariatric surgery twice because I went sleeve to bypass. Um, but the moment I could move again and started having connections with good friends who support me in ways that I didn't think I could ever find in my life, have hobbies that really interest me, have a work that I'm super passionate about. Like my life improved in such a way that that didn't become a thing anymore.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

Uh one of my employees asked, she's like, How do you know that you're making progress, be it mental health progress or just life progress? And I said, You don't. You just like wake up one morning and you realize that something doesn't have that control over you anymore. And I remember a time where I had bought rice pudding, which was like a huge binge food for me, and it had stayed in my fridge so long it went bad.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

And it had just like I thought about it so little that it just sat there for like three months or whatever until it went bad. And I remember just like looking at it and being like, oh, this is what kind of like food recovery or whatever recovery looks like. I wasn't actively thinking about like, oh, I've got to be on the straight and narrow or whatever. I was just too busy living a badass life that I wasn't trying to zone out with rice pudding anymore.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Yeah. I think you zone out is a key word because any any it's like there's coping mechanisms. Um, are you familiar with the rat park experiment? This is one of my favorite experiments. Yeah. We're like very similar, they introduced a boring environment for rats, and they put heroin in the water, and super, super addictive to rats, the rats would just end up like overdosing because they just became addicted. Um, and they were provided regular water and heroin water. But then you give these rats like friends to interact with and you give them uh fun stuff to like play on and all kinds of toys in the environment and make it like this this super enriching environment, and the preference for the heroin water disappears because there's not that need to like zone out from this boring box that you're in. You have like you said, you they're living a badass life, like they're just doing their rat thing, and I think humans are exactly that way too, as long as there's like that healthy life, like like what you achieved. That's so awesome that you were able to make those connections and friends and and work on yourself and and find that piece to where you didn't need to zone out anymore. That's that's I don't know, it's kind of choking me up a little bit. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Um I also think like we're gonna have different versions of Rat Park, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Right?

SPEAKER_02 43:20

Like my rat park is gonna look a lot different from your rat park, right? Not everybody wants to, you know, compare the merits of Sheets versus Wawa versus Casey's and really shit on a TA and a loves. Right? Like, and I've never been to Bucky's. I've passed Bucky's multiple times, but my I don't want to go through a Walmart to pee. I want to like go in, pee, pick up pickles, because I'm obsessed with pickles, fill up my gas tank and leave.

unknown 43:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

So I'm not going to Bucky's.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Bucky's is an experience and uh moving to Texas, like Colorado just got a Bucky. By the way, so you still have the opportunity. Um yeah, don't make me it's an experience. Um, and with that too, everybody's heroin looks a little bit different too. Like what their what their vice is for some people, maybe that's food. For some people, maybe that's you know, actual heroin. For some people, maybe that's scrolling on Instagram or TikTok. You know, there's there's different things that people use to zone out from their lives. And so yeah. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing your story around that.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Um and we may think that like living in paradise for some people is choosing the heroin water, right? But for them it's rat park, yeah, yeah, right? Because you've got social connections, yeah, you've got financial stability. There's I think it's one of the last episodes, but one of the girls is like, I was living in a trailer in North Carolina, and now I get to live in a multi-million dollar house in Vegas and make a fuck ton of money.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

Like Yeah, with your tribe, with your with people that you connect with, and like, yeah, that is rap part for some people.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Yeah, so like we can't and I also think like to bring it back to the larger cult conversation, there's a lot of people who are in let's go with Scientology and find a lot of great stuff in Scientology. Don't don't fucking sue me.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

I'll run Hubbard people, but have you seen the speedruns of Scientology, by the way?

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Oh no, but that sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

It's where they try to get as deep into a Scientology building as possible in the shortest amount of time. And so now Scientology buildings are like posting guards so that people can't run in and like get to their secret, you know, backrooms and stuff. Um, but yeah, it it's it's a weird rabbit hole if that's something you want to look at.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

But see, like I've read Dianetics because I'm weird, and I feel like there's a lot that people can find emotionally supportive, right? We could say that about Nexium too. Like there's so much in Nexium, especially like in the executive success program, that was just good if you leave it at that and just kind of take it and use it in your life, right? And it could be really great once you start getting into branding people and taking naked photos, then not great.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Not awesome, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Right? So I think like there's a lot within cults that can be positive, especially if it gets helps you get your shit together and helps you fund community. And maybe we shouldn't judge people for doing that part. It's once it starts getting manipulative, and once in my case, it was quit your job and give up your dog, then yeah, then it's a problem. But if it was just doing drugs in the woods in Airbnbs and talking to gods, I'd still be in my cult.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Yeah, I mean that sounds fucking awesome. That's a perfect segue to uh a book that I wanted to talk about with you uh by Devin Hunter called Bad Vibes. And um a lot of the words that you've been using in this conversation, like consent, uh intention, will, free will, I think that there's a lot of overlap in kind of the the the witchy world with those particular concepts. Um yeah, I guess fill me in with what you've read a little bit uh of the book and then um what your thoughts are as far as like those concepts and how they apply to to being a witch.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

Well, I think one of the big things with using magic and being kind of a spiritual person is understanding where people are coming from and where you yourself are coming from. Like, people can't see because this is audio only, but I wear a fuck ton of like the cool bracelets that were popular in the late 90s all the time of different like stones and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

I still go to Raves too, and I I see your little like rave bracelet going on there. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

This I got from a customer in Utah, and now I use this like my good luck charm. That's awesome. Uh, but what I will say is there's just like small aspects of what we are looking for and what we're willing to receive, right? Like right now, I'm not doing anything love related. I'm like, I'm good. Yeah. Like if some shit happens, fantastic. But like really money growing a company on the road a lot, and gas is like fucking 450 a gallon. Yeah, you know, money is cool. I'd really like some money right now. And I think like as we interact with the world, we also have to deal with other people who have similar motivations or other entities, particularly with bad vibes, because I can have my own motivation for doing my own thing. I'm on the road, I'm making money, I'm growing my business, and if something else wants to come at me, like I did one thing, I do a cleansing spell every month on the first of the month, and this past month, like a bunch of glass broke when I was doing it.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

So I was like, oh, cool, this is when we do the cleansing stuff, yeah. To you know, get it out now doing this thing.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Like mirrors or windows, or what broke? Oh, it was a candle. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

But I mean, like, yeah, the candle broke, which like luckily I was hella safe about it and know that fire is fire.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

Um, but even my soon-to-be ex-husband was like, that's weird. And I was like, yeah, fucking took the L for like that's why we do it, right? To make sure that any of that negativity is getting cleansed out, and if we experience something like that, we know, okay, fucker did its job.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Yeah. Which is kind of like the idea behind the evil eye or like the um oh I can't.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Malocchio if you're Italian. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

With the hands. Thank you. Okay. We're doing the hands. All right? It's Malocchio if you're Guido.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

Yeah, yeah, she's representing here too. Um so yeah, yeah. I this book is also about a lot of cleansing and purification, and uh he even gets into exorcisms, which he calls expulsion or uh evictions, evictions is what he calls it. Um I heard an interesting question. Do you are you familiar with the third eye drops podcast?

SPEAKER_02 51:36

No, yeah now, see, this is all I do is listen to fucking podcasts, and now we're adding more to the roster. Trash.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

Dude, if you love aliens and alchemy and like everything in between, Michael Phillips, third eye drops, is he's he's the guy. Um, but he just had a uh guest on who is a a magician, a magic practitioner, magic with a K, and he asked the question, like, How do you know which entities to trust? And his answer was, you don't. You don't, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

Um that was my first response when you said it. So like, yeah, you don't.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

Like, even working with the Norse gods, as I as I do, I know that they are flawed, right? Right? But like, I'll just do Odin for example. Yeah, like he is a Machiavellian bitch. Like, we know, right? Like, we know he is Machiavellian as fuck.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Right. So as long as you know, working, like those are the motivations going in, right?

SPEAKER_02 52:48

My girl Sif is a little gossipy and a little vain, and I love that for her, right? But I also know that that's she's gonna tell me to do the vain choice.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

Right.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Right? Loki's gonna tell us to do it for the plot, right?

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Like for the plot, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

There's so many that like you know what you're getting yourself into before you work with them, and that's part of the reason why you work with them, right? Because you know their flaws. So I think like you don't trust them, but you keep in mind that they have their own perspective, which is the same as you, right? Right? You're gonna walk into paradise and be like, this is some fucked up shit, or you're gonna be like, this is everything I've wanted in my life.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

Yeah. How do you develop that intuition as a person, uh knowing who you're working with and being able, I guess, to recognize the flavors if it's not a known entity? How do you develop like your your radar for that?

SPEAKER_02 53:58

So I'm working on my MBA, and one of the things that I'm getting from this MBA program is we always try something. Right? And I think, especially if you look at the history of witchcraft, so much of it was experimentation before the scientific method was like an actual thing.

SPEAKER_03 54:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 54:23

Like we have grimoires and we have all of this material that says, like, alright, I tried putting this herb in this tonic and I got this result. Maybe I try a different herb next time, right?

SPEAKER_03 54:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

It's it's kind of like all herbs are edible, some of them only once.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Yeah, that's that's the same thing with mushrooms too, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Right? Like, let's be real, right? That that's a thing, right? So I think like you learn by doing, and then you figure some shit out, and you might find, like, I was Hellenic, which the guy I'm seeing does not know anything about paganism, so I had to define Hellenic, and I was like, oh, people don't know what that means. Hellenic is like the Greek and Roman pantheon.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

So I was Hellenic forever, and now I'm like solidly a Norse bitch, and I think like you learn, you experiment, and I just found that like we speak the same language, and kind of not literally, because I'm not Scandinavian at all, but like our vibes are the same, and that allows me to kind of be on their wavelength in a way that I just never was, despite having the Italian heritage, and historically should have been Hellenic.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

Right. Yeah, yeah. I I love that answer, like the experimentation and seeing what matches with your personality and what matches with your vibes. Um, that's kind of a term that he uh uh Hunter uh talks about in his book is like what actually is vibes. Um, what would be your working definition for vibes, and then we can jump into his too.

SPEAKER_02 56:20

Damn, that's like a difficult question. Not prepared. Yeah, sorry. I think like one of my biggest takeaways from when I was in my cult is how on brand my intuition is.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:39

So I think reaching out with your intuition and the energy that you receive from that exchange.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

Right. And yeah, I I don't know, I'm kind of a science nerd, but also like I kind of like the alchemical approach, like atro uh like attracts like. Um and it's it's almost like I think of it almost like sound waves, which is kind of where Hunter went too, which is why I kind of connected with the book, is there's waves that are additive and you get higher amplitude peaks, and there's waves that uh subtract from each other, and then you get lower amplitude, and then there's just like crosswaves that uh you you just get chaos out of. Um I think that with people that's why you can like walk in a room and into it if you're gonna be friends with them or not. Like you you just kind of get a feel, some sort of extra sensory beyond sight, smell, sound, whatever, of whether or not this person's gonna add to your wavelength as a person, or whether or not it's gonna be like a subtractive thing. But I do think in my experience, it's all the times that you get burned that you learn from that you're like, okay, that didn't go so well last time with this particular wavelength because it doesn't match my particular wavelength. Now I know to keep an eye out for that.

SPEAKER_02 58:07

Is that your experience with like uh so I feel like all I do is have really random turns in my life. But I was working on a PhD for a really long time, um, and I did all the classes but didn't get to do my dissertation. It's fucking complicated, and that is for a completely different day. But one of the things that I brought up in one of my humanistic psychology classes is that oftentimes we know shit and we just kind of like call it intuition, but we observe patterns and we understand, and then as science proje progresses, we figure out why we believe that. One of the examples that I used repeatedly in a bunch of papers that I wrote is that church doors were made out of cedar wood for ages, right? Like we have a bunch of archaeological data that says cedar wood was used for church doors, and everybody always said it's for protection, it's for protection. And we were like, all right, cool. We just know cedarwood is protection, and then as technology evolved and science evolved, we found out cedar wood has antibacterial properties, right? So, like, it was legit protecting, right? Like we just intuitively knew from interacting with stuff, we didn't need necessarily a scientific study to prove it to us, but we knew it. And I think as we go through the world and talk about things like vibes, our brains are working on a scientific level that like we just don't have the technology to 100% support. It's why when people tell me like astrology is not real, I'm like, okay, but you also believe that your body is 70 or 80% water, and we know that the tides are controlled by the moon.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

So cool, yeah. Astrology is totally bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:27

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

Like, and I think that when we talk about to bring it back to this idea of like culty stuff and where we're at in kind of the technological space, is we can easily get our intuition overrun by all of these instant dopamine givers.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

Yeah, yeah. The quick fix kind of thing. Yep, yeah. Uh quick tangent. Did you see uh really cool conjunction of Mercury, Saturn, the moon, and Jupiter? It was really cool last night being able to see like the crescent moon and everything all lined up. So dear listen.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:19

I did not, which is like horrible because I have a fucking astrology TikTok. Damn.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:27

No, no, it was it, yeah. I I think it wasn't in full conjunction yet, so there's still time.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

Alright.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

Yeah, it was really cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:35

Look out the window tonight in Pittsburgh.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:36

Yep. Um, I I agree. I think that there's a lot of things that we intuit and don't really understand. Like, like a lot of religious practices are about cleansing or about like washing, ritual washing and things. We didn't have germ theory until very, very late in human history. We just kind of did it and it worked, and so keep doing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:03

Um, isn't it the I don't don't quote me on this, but I think it's the Ganges River had bodies that they would. I think this is from Phi Club, so this might be incorrect. But they were like burning bodies and the fat from the bodies and the lye that was naturally in the water combined to make soap. Oh wow, yeah the Ganges River is for like they have whole Hindu ceremonies where you go into the Ganges River for Cleansing, yeah. And it's like, oh, it's soap and water.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

People soap, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:40

Cool, cool, cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:41

Yeah. Um, yeah, uh speaking of cleansing, do you have uh he gives a bunch of rituals that he really likes to practice in in his house. Uh, do you have any recommendations or do you have any places where listeners should look for considering some of these cleansing rituals?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

Look for easy ones.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:02

Right? I it one of the things that I talk about or used to talk about a lot when I was a therapist is you're not gonna develop any habit that you fucking hate doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:15

So you have to make it as user-friendly as possible.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:21

And I think if it's your own and it's your own little small practice, and you know you can do it on a regular basis, fucking have at it as long as it's important to you and it works on a schedule that has you repeat it on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:42

That's yeah, I think that intention, intentionality to it, like this is for because that's even just mindfulness as well, which has got a ton of benefits for people as far as decreasing anxiety, improving depression. Um, I make the same comment to people when they ask me about dietary or excess exercise changes. Like, what do you recommend for the uh there's no perfect diet. Like, if I tell you something super specific, you're gonna hate broccoli. Like, like yeah, find things that are good, healthy foods, research what those are, and then compare what you like to eat. Or like with exercise. I'm not gonna give you an exercise routine because you might hate lifting weights, but I love lifting weights.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

So I am a fitness instructor. Fuck off yoga, okay? I hate yoga, okay? I hate yoga, I hate stretching. It's not my vibe. Pilates. But if you give me fuck Pilates, but if you give me like kickboxing, anything where I can be aggressive, yeah, right, rugby, right? Pound is what I'm licensed in. So that's hitting shit with drumsticks, right? Like kickboxing, anything like that, flag football. I'm there. I'm showing up, I'm tackling bitches, like I'm there, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

Because it's active and you can be engaged and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:12

Yeah, right. I also love a group thing. I hate doing shit on my own. If you tell me to do like, hey, here's a kickboxing thing from your living room, absolutely the fuck not. Yeah, hey, Melissa, can you show up to this class? Uh even if it takes two hours and the other one is 30 minutes in my living room, I'm gonna do the two hours of working out with friends.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:36

That's your rat park. Um, yeah. One of my very, very good friends was a uh power lifter, and like he had the record for the heaviest squat in Colorado for a while. And his church is like going underneath the squat rack in his garage at like five in the morning by himself in freezing Colorado winters. And just grind grinding out reps. That is not most people's rat park, but that's his. And so find what works for you. Uh, and I like that advice with the cleansing rituals too. Uh, do you think that so like smudging is a really big thing?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:17

Um, although smudging is an indigenous practice, so we want to be careful, and uh, I think it's white sage is now endangered because of semi basic white bitches got yep, so we don't want to do that. There's a bunch of like wild native plants like rosemary or cedar or yep, rosemary and cedar, juniper is a good one. Um mugwort can get me a little high, so just be careful. I mean, whatever. Your you know experience may vary. Yep. Um, but yeah, for me, mugwort definitely cleanses my shit, but then also opens me up to a bunch of other shit that I don't want to be part of. Yeah. Um, so yeah, like there's a ton of different things. Look what's native to your area, try a bunch of different shit out, see what works for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:12

How do you compare like like pagan cleansing to something like Catholic Mass or something that is in a formal organized religion? Because I see a lot of similarities. I I see you go to the place to meet with the people, you take the sacrament, and then it's it's like you said, like a regular scheduled thing where you address your soul. Um do you I I guess do you mind comparing and contrasting that a little bit for me?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:47

I think there is no difference. I think one you just do on your own, yeah, and then the other one you do as part of a larger, more established group.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

Yeah. Yeah. Right? That was easy.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:59

It's the same shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:03

Whether they're paying for the incense from what you put in the basket, or you're buying your own incense and lighting it in your basement, like Yeah. Same thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:13

Yeah. How uh I've I've asked this to a couple people, but um if you change your beliefs and practices, do you ever become like an ex-witch? Or do you ever become is it just integrated into something new or different or yeah, what does that look like for you having left the cult that you were a part of?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:37

I think I'm the same bitch that was in the cult.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:40

I just don't have a coven anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:43

That's fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:44

And I think like literally nothing changed outside of I don't do SAID because I'm not doing drugs in Airbnbs. But I've come up with like different practices to kind of get to be able to channel, not to the same extent that I did with them, but like I still channel, I still do all of the same beliefs and practices. I just don't have Lux was my cult leader's name. But my I don't have Lux in my ear telling me this is okay and this is not okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:20

Yeah, I like that. Um when you channel on your own, uh, do you remember what you like bring back from that or or is it something that really requires an additional person kind of being there as the translator?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:34

I think if I was doing it with henbang, yeah, I'd want someone there just for safety. Yeah. But I don't have access to henbang, which is probably a good thing. Um so yeah, I'm not doing that like on my own. And I don't always like I always remember like bits and pieces, but I never remember like the full on thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:59

So I'm on the road a lot, as we've established multiple times. I got a little drunk in uh Indianapolis, and I read tarot cards for a bunch of people at the bar that I was at. Like Wait Staff.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

Everybody, wait staff, there were people in there because it was during Indiana Comic-Con. So there were a bunch of like people in cosplay in the bar. I was reading them too, right? Like it was just out there reading everybody. I don't remember most of those readings. Yeah. Part of it could have been the alcohol, but most of it was just that like I was tuned in, I was giving them what they needed, and it wasn't for me anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:41

So yeah, and flow state, I'm sure. Like just being kind of in your in your vibes.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:48

Yeah. That's thank you. Thank you for all of this. I love talking with you every time I talk with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:55

And I haven't read your chart yet, which we will do, I don't know, in August or whatever, whenever I talk when I'm not fucking on the road.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:02

Yeah. But yeah. That would be awesome. I will read your chart. I would appreciate that. That would be a lot of fun. Um that was something that actually my wife and I went and did uh uh several months ago. I want to say like six months ago. Had uh uh went and uh spoke with a tarot reader, and it was very strange, like the cards were very meaningful to us. Her interpretation of the cards were maybe not quite as as spot on, but seeing the cards themselves and the meanings of the cards was like identical to where we were in our life circumstances right then. Um so yeah, I do think that there is intentionality for the the person reading the cards, but also the person getting the cards read, too. And uh there's definitely kind of that magic to I don't know, finding meaning where where that's given. Um but yeah, I would love to have you read our charts or or that would be a lot of fun for our our audio members, the fingers, the rubbing hands together uh menacingly, not not menacingly, excitedly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:24

You're missing out on on evil evil finger Melissa.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:31

Um, I really want to plug your your shop because you're doing incredible stuff right now. You said that you had like a record-breaking month. Um please fill us in with where we can get your fragrances.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:44

So I am Melissa Siff, your daughter. My company is called Sif, like S-I-F, the Norse goddess of abundance. She's also Thor's wife, Sniffs, and we are Sifsniffs.com. Um, we are about to launch our summer. When does this go live? Like this week?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:03

Probably uh this week or next year.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:06

Cool. All right. Uh we just launched our summer limited edition fragrance called Florida Sweet Tea. It is a collaboration with Yopon Brothers uh tea company.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:18

So it's a Florida tea-inspired fragrance. So both of us, like both brands, are carrying the fragrance, which is super cool. Um, it's our first really big collaboration.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

Yeah. So we're so stoked about that. They're in Whole Foods, and yeah, that's that's huge.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:38

I am not in Whole Foods, at least not yet, but you know, I'm a bitch with ambition and a Capricorn rising. So that's going. I'm all over the country. Uh I'm in the middle of a bunch of different states. We're hitting 33 states this year.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:58

Um, so find me on the road. The closest to you, though, unfortunately, is gonna be Oklahoma City.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:03

Well, I saw Ohio. I'll be out there for Lost Lands. Maybe we'll be out there around the same time.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:08

Ohio's next week.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:09

Oh, then no. Damn.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:12

Yeah. I'm like, Ohio's next week.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:14

But I'm yeah, I'm all over all the time. Find me on the road. There's a whole events tab on our website if you want to meet me in real life. I'm gorgeous. Um, I also have a TikTok called Sif Your Daughter, and which is just S-I-F-J-A-R-D-O-T-T-I-R, where I do the astrology, a tarot card, and a rune every day to help you work smarter and not harder. And that way, like I pull all three and I talk about kind of what the overall vibes are going to be for the day and what we can kind of expect.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:49

That is awesome. Thank you so much. Uh Melissa, I love talking with you. You're such an interesting person, and you have like such a very cool perspective having gone through so much and being drug through the plot sometimes. Uh thank you. Yeah, yeah. And so thank you so much for sharing your fate and how you've beat your fate and all of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:13

That's that's and continue to fucking do so. So we'll see what goes on after this.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:18

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, great. Uh, this has been the Off in the Reads podcast. If you like what we do here, be sure to check us out on Spotify. Give us a five-star rating there if you so like. And uh please make sure that you check out Sif Sniffs.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:26

But the paranormal is real, it is real, it is real. It is real, it is real, it is real. But the paranormal is real.