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This is a, it's fun to be a part of you getting things rolling here. So Sky, like I'm wearing, I'm, I'm wearing the branding. I love it. What? Tell me, what you're up to these days. And you know, I, I said it earlier, I think you're you're, you're one of the smartest people I know. One of the most curious people I know one of the most outgoing. And so that's a great combo for, and today you're a founder of done. So what is done? What are you guys up to? I appreciate that. Thank you. Those are very kind words. I'll take curious. I don't know about the smartest person, you know, I know, I know a lot of your friend group, you know, a lot of very smart people. So turn is a retail returns and reverse logistics company that we started a few years ago, coming out of a long history of of experience with payments companies and commerce companies, people are building things. We realized that there was probably an area of opportunity to improve some of the processes post transaction. So everything that happens after somebody makes purchase. And one of the areas with the most inefficiencies, really most opportunity we thought was returns. So we focused very squarely on the returns experience, both consumer and for merchants in that post transaction process in the commerce world. The primary service that we offer is what I've been calling a returns utility for merchants and consumers. So rather than think about returns as a one off kind of experience, a consumer might go to a merchant and say, I have a sweater that I want to return. The merchant sees that as kind of an on demand queue to give them. A shipping label and send something back Wednesday Tuesdays. We're treating this more like your typical experience for say trash collection or recycling. Monday's trash day, Tuesday's recyclables, Wednesday somebody comes to pick up the returns. The idea of collecting items at an edge. Homes and bringing them to the central point for processing and then being able to do some intelligent things with regards to surfacing inventory or shipping things back in a more efficient way for processing various forms of processing or even disposal is something that we're focusing on right now. It ends up being much less expensive, really delightful experience from a consumer perspective and ultimately huge benefits for merchants. So less expensive process, great customer experience, leads to more purchases higher customer lifetime value. That's it. That's where we're focused. Yeah, no, and, and the reason you've even gotten into this is, I'd imagine the prior experience that you and I had. What a part of. So right. And that's a good segue, I guess, into the topic. Um, you know, for today. And, and, and, and the previous experience we're talking about is is, is signified where you played a very key role let me summarize it and then, and then you can carry the summary. So for everyone listening, Sky was a key, early, early employee, maybe employee sub 10 employee. Yeah. Nine. Yeah. Nine. Yeah. And a key a key man with getting signified to the rocket ship that it is today without putting numbers on it, Sky essentially saw it go from seed to, you know, series D. And was, you know, headed up the go to market function. And, and Scott, anything, anything there that you want to add to or correct? No, I was there, I was there pretty early. I was really fortunate to work with some great people. I'm always reluctant to, to be somebody who says I was responsible for building anything in particular. I think it's a big team effort that signifies a great company, a fascinating model in the commerce space. And it's something that Was hugely influential in starting turn because of the relationships we had at Signified on the fraud side in particular. Because of our business model, we got to work so closely with so many great brands and great merchants. We got to know really what made good, efficient merchant businesses and where there were some areas of opportunity. Turn actually came out of a couple of conversations I had with, you know, Raj, their CEO. We talked about where we thought there could be improvements or continue the growth of commerce as a whole. And one of those areas was definitely the return space. So yeah, it came out of that for sure. And out of all the things you did, one of the things core jobs that you accomplished was building out the sales team, right? So I wanted to talk about and there's so many, the, the, the favorite challenge I feel the founders have with building out a sales team is how you find the right sales person. But today I want to focus on. A specific aspect with ramping up a sales team tell me about the and maybe you're doing it here at turn as well. And so you can talk about your experience now, or I'll maybe have you think back to a few years ago to the experience at Signified. Practicing calls. Tell me about the last time you had to practice a call yourself. Or have someone on the team do it, why is this important? How does one go about it? Yeah, for sure. So there are so many nuances to that question, excuse me, and it kind of depends on, I say stage of the company development of a product. Maturity of your sales team. There are a lot of things that go into it. I think at the highest level, if you're talking specifically about practicing calls and getting people ready for. Yeah, the actual conversation they might have with their ideal customer, wherever they happen to be talking to, it's really just a matter of getting cycles right? Like anything else that requires a little bit of practice, you have to prepare yourself for that experience that you're going to have. So, if you want to equate it to any type of like athletic endeavor, there's a certain amount of practice you can do by yourself. There's a certain amount of practice you can do with competition with, with others that are, they're going to give you a little bit of feedback. And so in the sales world, that would be more like role playing with somebody else on the team. But you have to show up to the role play prepared. You have to be ready, know your product, know, know likely where you want to go with the conversation. And then you just have to get cycles. Truly one of the biggest problems with, I'd say a lot of outbound sales processes is. 90 percent of the time you're getting hung up on, right? You want to start a conversation. Somebody says they're not interested. So out of a hundred calls, 90 times, you're having someone not even get past the response stage. Then that one time out of 10, you happen to get a chance to say something to whoever it is on the other end of the line or the other end of your email, or when you run into them in a conference. More often than not, somebody kind of freezes. They, they don't have the experience that they needed in order to come through and have a really meaningful conversation. So having more, more practice, more good conversations, more getting past that first stage of of the discussion is super important. So you can start to get to some of the objections that you might have to handle to get to the next step. You can start to figure out what words feel right, what value prop really clicks for the person you're talking to. And I think that that's also a step of preparation that's important. It's understanding who's on the other side of this and what motivates them to do their job. How you can tailor your pitch to exactly what they want to hear. Having more cycles certainly helps. It's rare that somebody can come into a conversation cold, never having done it. Live before and actually perform really, really well mentioned a couple of things, the sports analogy. You play basketball. I play tennis. So that resonated a lot with me. You mentioned cycles. So, you know, in tennis, we talk about, you know, match practice. You can either do that. You talked about role playing. You can either hit with someone or you get a ball machine out there and you know, hit against the ball machine. So I want to talk a little bit about the role playing a piece of it, you hired your first salesperson at Signified, and you're What happened next? How did you, or even before that you had to go sell Signified yourself. How did you, did you role play with Raj? Sometimes, and you know, I think that Signified was a slightly different experience because it was such a small company when I, when I first joined. So I think you mentioned like a single digit employee. So you have a lot of hands on activity at that point, especially the tech space. You're going to have a company that is. Yeah. Almost entirely engineering, which is the case when I joined the SIGNIFY, we had a technical, technically savvy, at least, I mean, technically and business, excuse me, business savvy CEO, but he was certainly able to, to make sales pitches himself. So when I joined, I had the good fortune to be able to sit alongside Raj and hear a couple of his pitches. He had been practicing it for a while at that point. So I got to learn from being alongside him. And if we were to talk about that as part of like a normal sales onboarding process, that's just a shadowing phase. You're going to sit here. You're going to listen to it. You're going to hear either a role play type call or maybe a live call, but from somebody who's done it a lot of times. So they've had those cycles. They understand what might work and what might not. And then just as important as shadowing that is debriefing. And say, Hey, scale of one to 10. I think that call was an eight. Here's what I think I could have done better. Here's what I think I did well. Here's where my next steps are going to be. This is what we expect to get out of it. So the next time we come into it, we can talk about implementing some of those things we thought we could improve from Lesco. So shadow debrief, both really, really important. Even at larger companies, I think you break that down on a team level. You say new hire coming in. How do you get people to be effective and ready? To contribute to the sales team, have them shadow for, for a bit, have them just sit quietly and hear a call that will likely go well, maybe with a friendly, maybe not, maybe with somebody who's going to be adversarial. And then you can come out and you say, wow, that was a three of 10. Didn't go well at all. Here's what we ran into. How can we fix that in the future? That's I think a really big part of getting new salespeople comfortable with having those conversations with somebody on the other side of the table. You mentioned two things. One is shadowing, and you mentioned adversarial calls, so my head went to a couple of places there. Shadowing, sure. You know, I, you can watch LeBron shoot all day. I can watch Federer hit all day. You know, that's my, you know, that's the sports analogy now to shadowing. How do you now get to that next step? Like you've got to shoot now. So what do you do next post shadowing? Yeah. So there are a lot of steps that go from being a new sales rep to somebody who's really effective. If we start off, I think there's a step even before shadowing that's do your homework. So understand what it is that you're going to be pitching, understand your product. Start to understand a little something about your, your customer across the table. What role are they in? What's meaningful to them? How am I going to tailor this conversation to them? And I think the best salespeople have a, I'm going to call it an innate sense, but maybe it's, maybe it's not so innate. Maybe it's something that can be learned. I think it can, it certainly can be learned, but maybe it's something they do learn just a little bit more efficiently. What motivates the person on the other side? What do I want to talk about? At Signified, the pitch was very different if I was pitching to someone that's in fraud, the fraud space, as in trying to stop fraudulent transactions, versus somebody who might be on Like the econ management side where they're trying to maximize throughput of transactions in their system. Those are very, they can be very different things, very different value props. In one case, I can tell you how you're going to stop losing money. In the other case, I can tell you how you're going to make the most possible money coming through your system, because Signify is going to let you do that. Okay. So that was, that's something that we taught and a manager can teach that to their reps as well. There are different ways of positioning this conversation. You should know all of them so that when you run into this scenario in the wild, you're able to speak intelligently to it. Now being able to recall it on the fly is a little bit different. So then you shadow, you hear someone do it. You hear somebody kind of navigate those waters and get to a place where they're using the different pitches or listening to certain cues to say, ah, you're interested in revenue optimization versus stopping front. Got it. Let's talk about why that's important and go that direction. Afterwards debrief, understand what worked, what didn't. And then honestly, I think I would probably put people through role plays and say, you've heard it. You haven't done it yourself yet. Let's get you some offline cycles to do. The thing you just saw, try it out, try it with somebody on the team. I'm going to position you with people who are both receptive and I'd start there. I would give them kind of some softballs. Just like if you're talking about tennis, your first time out on the court, you're not going to want to return balls from Federer or even a machine turned up to 10. Right. You're going to want to give them something that they can feel the motion for. You know how the ball is going to react. You understand the physics or the energy of that particular interaction. It's the same thing themselves call. Give them something easy to return. Then maybe get a little chippy, get a little adversarial, surprise them with things. But do it in a way that allows them to work on those particular skills that you think they're going to need in the wild. I'm going to continuously go to your backhand if I know it's a little bit weak because it's going to happen and I want you ready for it when it does that type of stuff. Like with the, so we we talked about the shadowing and then you do the role playing piece. So you watch LeBron shoot. And so now you're shooting yourself. What, what are like, what are some of the challenges with, role playing. So you mentioned being adversarial. You talked about different value proposition, putting yourself in the shoes of the person you're talking to. So you seem to be pointing at a lot of variability in these calls. You know, one person might be interested in one thing. Another person might be interested in another thing. One person might be friendly. You mentioned friendly calls and another person might just be rude and adversarial. How do you get someone to go through all of those various scenarios? Do you just it was role playing your, your go to for that? It was always a part of our sales training. Yeah, but it continues to be, I mean, we do this, we do this at turn, we do this, I do it with any sales team that I happen to be in. I think role playing is a really, really good tool to have for anyone building a sales team. How do you do it? Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, no, I guess where my head went to was, does it get tiring? You're doing, you know, you're spending all day doing this with customers and, you know, to your point, nine out of 10 of them, Don't maybe want your product, maybe, right? So maybe it's somewhere and then now you've got to go do the same thing with the role playing piece like either side of that role play, maybe, you know, you're listening to it or you do. Yeah. Does that get tiring or how do you, that's where my head went to right away when I heard that. That's a fascinating question. So to answer it and I'll be direct with answering it. But I think that philosophically, I think that any, any role, not just sales, But any role engineering, you name it, product, anything. I think there should be positions of advancement that are both managerial and non managerial. Making someone who's a really good engineer is not necessarily a great manager of engineers. Somebody who's a great salesperson is not necessarily a great sales manager. I think the people who are responsible for training. understand that the training is a different skill. It's a different job, right? So if you have a sales manager that says, I'd like to manage people, but I don't want to develop them. I don't want to train them. I don't want them to be good at what they do. That might not be a great sales manager. They might just be a really good sales person, right? So if you have a sales manager that is effectively a player coach, they're out there pitching, they're out there doing the job and then also training people to do it. I think those, those people have the ability to compartmentalize those two things and say half my day I was pitching and I was a salesperson. The other half, I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of developing these other people on the team and making them good at what we can all be together. I don't think it gets tiring just because it's more pitches, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. No, it does. I, I my head just kind of went to, you know, I'm pitching the product. With real customer and now second half of the day, I'm pitching it with Sky. And so, you know, I've just spent, but, but, but that makes sense. I guess at the end of the day, you just want to have a better Tuesday than you had a Monday. And so the only way to get that better Tuesday is to have those practice sessions. That's right. You know, I, I, I actually hate using sales analogy sports analogies. When we talk about sales in particular, I think it's kind of cliche. It's over done. I do think there are, there are obvious parallels and maybe the most important thing that people take away from sports experience and coming to a sales role or really any professional role is a sense of accountability. Anybody who's played any type of sport has lost a game at some point, and it's probably been their responsibility that they've lost a game at some point, just like maybe it's the responsibility of winning the game too. You have to be able to look at your successes and your failures and say, I was responsible. Here's why it happened. What am I going to do to get better? And I would wager, I know you're a big tennis player. I'd wager that you've probably had matches that didn't go your way. And as soon as the match ended, you've just wanted to hit another couple of balls and say, Hey, such a, such a slump right now, sky. That's too bad. But, but I'm sure it happens. And you would say, aren't you really tired of playing tennis? And your, your mind switches to that set where you say, Am I tired of this match? Yes. I'm tired of this match. I just, I just need to get back in the groove. I need to feel a little something. And it's a, it's a different thing that you're solving for. So I think that from a. a mental exhaustion perspective, you can be tired, but you're doing a different thing. And maybe it's, maybe it's really that really hit sent drove it home for me, I guess I do want to win that next match. And so the, the, the practice isn't, isn't that tiring, but, and I know you said you're tired with the sports analogy, but just to stick with that many times, like many times, and especially it's even, even truer for tennis than maybe basketball where. You know, you're maybe shooting by yourself, but even basketball, I guess you want someone blocking and, you know, you want to be working away around. You don't, I don't always find that person to kind of hit with all the time. And maybe I don't get those reps in. Did you run into, what are some of the problems? So role playing fine, that's the solution. What are some problems now with the solution and how do you, how are you measuring that it's going right? Yeah. So I think that any practice is only as good as. The scenario you set up, right? So you can have really good solo practice sessions. That usually doesn't mean I just lackadaisically went out and I hit a tennis ball against the wall for a half hour, and then I walked away thinking maybe I got better, right? You set up something you want to work on. You say, I'm going to hit a hundred balls this way, and I'm going to learn that. I'm going to see what it feels like. And then I'm going to switch. I'm going to hit a hundred balls this way, see what it feels like. If you set up, so I will take a step back. I think that role playing in a sales org in particular is phenomenally helpful. It, it is just a way to get cycles that would otherwise be very difficult to come across in the wild on a consistent enough basis to make improvement. It would be like saying, I'm only going to play games, I'm never going to practice. And every time I go into a game, I'm going to try to work on something. And I hope that the next time I have my next game, I'll have improved in the meantime. Really tricky. Right? Do you get better in games? Of course. Yeah. You learn stuff. It's better competition. It's all kinds of good things, but you don't have enough repetition to really get better. If you have a sales team that's not bought into the idea of role playing and trying to make the people around them better. Or in a competitive environment, like if you do have a competitive sales environment, which I have all the time, if the reps themselves don't want to get better through their role play, then the role play will fall apart. So you need someone on the other side of the table who's going to take it seriously. He's going to say, I will pretend to be a, maybe an adversarial person you're talking to, but realistic. Right. So I'm going to, I'm actually going to serve you back with the objections that I've run across in the wild. I've seen these, I know they'll happen, or I have a feeling they'll happen if you're super early. I'm going to give it to you in a way that another human being would do that. Also, it's not helpful to be so adversarial that, Hey, this is sky calling from turn. I don't want to talk to you. Click. Hang on. Like there's that like game's over. It's almost like, it's always, it's always yes. And or in this case, it's going to be no. And. No, I'm not interested, but what do you do? But yeah, no, yes, or yes, but yes, and yeah, that's kind of the way it goes. But I think practice in any, in any endeavor, if it's sports, if it's sales, if it's product, if it's anything, it's just a matter of getting exposure to things, you need to see it so that you can improve and get better. So you constantly hitting on this quantity and quality aspects of this, right? Like when you're not on the court. doing it off court. How did you measure that this was going at the clip you wanted it to, at the variability? So quality to me seemed like the better bit of you talked about you know, dialing it up to 10, but starting out at one and maybe hitting the slice and then the top spin and cross court and down the line and all that. So how did you know as the manager now, if this team is quickly growing team at Signified or even at Dern by the way, I'm curious, are you thinking about Dern as you recollect some of these things or you're thinking back at Both. Yeah. So we'll stick with Termin. So as you, as you hired your first salesperson, your second salesperson, how are you tracking that this is going at the quantity and quality that you like? So I think that there are two measurements of quality and progress that are equally important, but oftentimes. Oftentimes, both aren't thought of when you're measuring progress, right? So one of the one of them is relative progress to what you had done previously. And the other is absolute progress, right? I've said for a long time. One of the things I find fascinating about just people in general is we're really good at relative difference, but we're very bad at absolutes. Like, we don't. We don't really understand the full scope of a lot of things, but we really good at feeling difference from from A to B, right? Take driving in a car, right? You feel the difference from 0 to 60 miles per hour. But once you're cruising at the highway on the highway, if there's a slow enough change, you don't really feel the difference. In 60, 80, you feel like it's just a little different right outside of certain clues. Like, if you have to hear wind in the tips, but let's say you're building a. A new sales team, nascent sales team, like, like fresh. You might come out and say, wow, last week we were really terrible. And this week we're doing much better. It feels like our pitches are better. It feels like things are going in the right direction. If you could take a step out of yourself and fast forward a year or looked at a really well disciplined sales team that's been like firing and just really doing well, you have this epiphany where you say, Oh, we could be so much better. Right? So you start off and you say. Especially with a super early company, you're not sure what your pitch is going to be. You have to take somebody who is passionate about the product, understands it's fit, and is really your first champion. So if we think about like Turn, we're relatively small. So I am still that beacon at Turn. If you look at Signified previously, Raj was very much that like selling CEO who was technical enough to do whatever he needed on the technical side and also really understood how to make signified message click with whoever he's talking to across the table. That's, he's fantastic at it. Somebody's really, really good at it. If you're building a team from scratch, that first one is okay, Sky, you're coming on to lead sales or business development or partnerships, whatever happens to be, I'm watching Raj Raj and I are then role playing. We're talking about this stuff. I feel like I'm getting better, but then I might look at somebody else in the cybersecurity space that's been around for a really long time. Like I came from the RSA security and silver tail systems and like all that team, so you don't get bought by everybody. We have fantastic sales training. I mean, fantastic. And so then you started looking at some of those processes that were put in place. We're using specifically the force management company and command of the message was really, really good. And so I would bring some of those practices into signified eventually, and I still use them at turn today, but on a much smaller scale. Because it gives me the ability to look at really large disciplined sales orgs and say, what makes those reps eventually very good at what they do? How do we measure it? Where that might not exist at a really small company yet, because every day feels like evolutionary progress. Like you can grow a hundred percent, you can get a hundred percent better. Turns out you're still only at 20 percent. Like you could be, you could be at 30, 40, 50, 60, 80, a hundred percent of where you are, right? Like you could keep going and just be so much bigger. But yeah, I think about that a lot. The difference between relative growth and absolute growth is important for sales. Individuals and leaders to understand. I love the relative growth, absolute growth concept there. Hadn't thought about it. You talked about looking at mature teams and seeing where you could be a year out from now and where you are today. So when I think about measurements and tracking, whether a program is going as planned or not, there's sort of maybe outcome metrics, revenue, and then there's effort metrics. And to your point, like at an early stage, it's hard to be maybe tracking those outcome metrics because it's not a well oiled machine and all this stuff. Yeah. Also, sometimes curves can be exponential and things start to fire, right? So even if you're kind of not tracking today, maybe you'll go past that tomorrow. So what were some, what are your thoughts on that? How did you go about going back to those concepts of variability quantity and quality and some of these effort versus outcome? How did you track those quantity, quality of if maybe I haven't, you recall from a little while ago, but like. How did you track those quality, quality effort metrics back at Signify? Yeah. So it's technology's advanced on the sales side a bit that makes it there are platforms and tools available that make it a little bit easier to track things like effort. And, you know, so like that type of stuff is easy. You can, you can put tools in place that measure how many outbound emails did you send or how many calls did you make? Everybody, like it's a running cliche about sales reps, frustrations with updating things like Salesforce. But maybe you're using, you know, gong or something else, but around speed. I think where the, the relative versus absolute conversation comes back is it's very hard for any organization, even very large organizations to understand where their performance fits. Versus all of their peers or other organizations. It's relatively easy to track progress and results. It's kind of manual. Usually when you're a really small company, as you get bigger, you start implementing some tools cause they're a little bit more expensive and some of that stuff happens. Right. But I know on any, on any given day, how much effort an individual sales rep might be putting in by effort. Like how many actions are you taking to advance the deals that you have and what's coming from them? What percentage close do you have? How long does it take? Like those types of things are very easy to track because you control all of those elements You have access to all of those elements I know that sales in our early days took six months to close now They take four that's an improvement great. We're moving in the right direction How big are the deals it's a hundred thousand a million dollars ten million dollars How many do we close in each one? You can band it out. There's so much information available. Maybe it's manual. Maybe you're using Google Sheets and, you know, early stages of Salesforce to figure that out. Maybe you're implementing some more, uh, some, some more developed tools. Where it gets hard is saying, Hey, I think we're doing great. We have 25%, 50%, 75 percent close rate, whatever it is, you can measure that internally. How would you feel about your 30 percent close rate? If you think that's good. If you looked at your peers and they're all closing at 50%, right? All of a sudden your, your 30 percent doesn't feel great. Conversely, what if all your peers are closing at 10%? You're closing three times as fast. Those are things that most organizations don't have very good access to. And it, it ends up being conversations you kind of just have with, let me get a feel for where things are in the space. There are certain resources that might correlate that type of information and give you a directional idea of where you're going. Yeah, but a lot of times it's, it's kind of like secondhand and hearsay and that type of stuff. It seems to me like the severity of this is high in the sense that if at the end of the quarter you measured and things weren't going well. I mean, this stuff can potentially, could it sink the company? Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So if you think about, especially early stage companies, growth is so important, right? Yeah. And a lot of times, and this is not, I think I'll talk about this, and this is not knocking Raj, because I think, I think he was fantastic at Signify still is fantastic at Signify. I'm just not there anymore. I think we give Raj, I think you should knock on him every now and then. I've redone it. Okay. Well, like most CEOs of small organizations, and I find myself in that role today. And I, I've learned so much from Raj and I, I, I I'm fortunate to be able to continue to talk to him about it. You find yourself obsessing about things like growth. And sometimes you can find yourself at odds with say a sales leader or a product leader. If you say, Hey, I need to grow by X and we're not quite there, or it's not happening as quickly as I need it to. That must be your fault. Right. And so then you look at a sales leader and you say, I need you to close more. And all of a sudden you look at your 30%, you say, okay, I'm at a 30 percent closer, 40%, 50%, whatever it is. If you can, if you can point conclusively to the industry only closes at 10%. And I'm at 30. So we're doing something, right? You have a little bit of a different argument than if you, if that person would come to you and say, you're closing at 30, but everybody else is at 50. Right. That's a problem. As it turns out, most of the time, especially for those early orgs, because you don't have that cross. Organization visibility, it just becomes a little bit of, well, I think we're doing well because we're here and we're certainly better than where we were a month ago, but it's nebulous enough that you can find yourself in some, some murky waters. It's nice to have something conclusive to point to, to say, not only do I know we're growing on our internal metrics, but we're doing really well compared to external metrics as well, or here's where I need to get better, you know, those types of things. I know we're like five minutes over here, Sky. And a couple of thoughts, but things we should pick up in our next conversation. Just continuing on a couple of things you said one is measuring effort, like, you know, number of emails sent a number of calls me. That's easy. I was curious how you measured variability, the rude customer, the arrogant one, the short one, the, you know, the happy one. And how did you kind of measure that reps when they were doing this role playing were getting old. That whole breadth of experience. That's one thing we should pick up. That's one thread. I'd love to pick up on next time. And the second was, you know, given the severity of this role and how growth is just so important, I was curious for your thoughts on, is it too late to wake up sort of at the end of the quarter to say, And I love the scenario, obviously, where, you know, your growth is at 30%, the industry is at 10%, no problems there, but what if that were reversed? Could there be better ways of getting that signal, at least from an effort point of view, on a day to day basis? How could Rajesh, or you in this, you know, in your current role, How could you feel more comfortable, warm and fuzzy that the team's doing everything they can. So a couple of things I thought that we can pick up on, you know, the next time we chat on the topic. But I, as always, Sky, like you're a fountain of, information. I hope it's useful. I hope it's helpful. Hugely useful. Hugely useful. I want to close it off with I know when we, you know, I've been tracking turn for the last couple of years, you started out consumer. Have you pivoted to enterprise or, you know, can a listener listening to this, maybe someone who's got a lot of returns to make, can they find you somewhere? Should they find you somewhere or have you pivoted away from that model? Sure. Yeah. I appreciate the question. So I think if there are individuals out there that are listening to this and want to follow us, you know, go check us out, check out our, our site turnit. com or turnreturns. com, yeah, turnit. com or turnreturns. com. Either will work. See what we do. See if you like it. We have pivoted to the enterprise side. So we're working with some large merchants now. You'll probably get the most exposure to us through just the normal shopping that you do right now. Hopefully what you experienced from that is, you know, it's If you have an option to do something like make a return using a home pickup, try it out. There's a chance that we're going to be servicing that for you in your particular area. If you have a good experience, let merchants know. That's always helpful for us. Amazing. Sky, good chatting as always. Great to catch up with you, Adi. Have fun in Boston. Yeah, thank you. I will, I'll talk to you soon.