Flint’s Civil War Heroes: The Story of the 10th Michigan Infantry

Flag Day Special — The Untold Story of Flint’s Civil War Soldiers and the battle flags that led them through America’s defining conflict.

In the American Civil War, 90,000 Michigan soldiers marched into battle. Among them were the men of the 10th Michigan Infantry Regiment, organized in Flint, Michigan and mustered into federal service in February 1862. Their service carried them across the war’s most brutal frontlines — Tennessee, Mississippi, Georgia, and North Carolina — ultimately marching with Sherman to the Sea and helping secure Union victory with the fall of Atlanta.

This episode features David Norris, whose great-grandfather Talmon C. Owen fought with the 10th Michigan Infantry. Their regiment suffered 327 casualties, including officers and enlisted men lost to battle and disease. These were Flint’s sons — mill workers, farmers, tradesmen — who shaped the future of the nation.

🎖️ The Battle Flags That Led Them

Before deploying, the Flint soldiers received handmade silken battle flags, gifted by the women of Flint. These flags were not symbolic; they were tactical lifelines on chaotic Civil War battlefields, guiding regiments in smoke, blood, and confusion.

After the war, surviving flags were returned to the State of Michigan and entrusted to the governor. Many never made it home.

🏛️ Save The Flags — Michigan’s Preservation Project

Michigan’s Save The Flags initiative preserves 240 historic battle flags from:

• The Civil War
• The Spanish-American War
• World War I

Nearly 150 flags have been adopted for conservation by families, schools, civic groups, and historians. Adoption helps fund research, preservation, and public display of these irreplaceable artifacts.

Learn more or find a flag to adopt through this statewide initiative.

🕊️ Flint’s Legacy

The story of the 10th Michigan Infantry is more than military history — it’s a Flint story. It is a story of working-class courage, community pride, and the sacrifices that shaped America long before the challenges of the 20th and 21st centuries.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 1:25

Michigan we have to fly.

SPEAKER_01: 1:37

That was singer, folk singer Neil Woodward, who sings Peachtree Creek, a song written by David Norris of Flint, in honor of his great-grandfather, Talman Owens, who fought in the Flint's 10th Infantry Regiment in the Civil War, in the battle at Peachtree Creek. Peachtree Creek, of course, was the significant battle, critical one, that resulted in the fall of Atlanta during the Civil War, ultimately led to the end of the Civil War. Our episode today is a fantastic review of the city of Flint and the area's involvement in the Civil War and the effort by the state of Michigan and others to save the history of our flags. There are battle flags, 240 battle flags, which were taken into the Civil War by those brave soldiers in Michigan, some 90,000 of them, who fought the Confederacy and won the war. At the end of the war, they came back to Michigan and presented their battle flags to the governor who was from Flint, Henry Crapo. This is the story of Save the Flags and Flint's 10th Infantry Regiment in honor of Talman Owens of Flint, Michigan. I hope you enjoy. Okay, good morning. This is Arthur Bush. You're listening to Radio Free Flint. I'm your host. We have a great program today about a project which has been ongoing for uh over a hundred years, I think. And uh it's called Save the Flags. So with us today we have Matt Van Aukker, who is the uh I better get your title correct, Matt.

SPEAKER_00: 3:38

Help me out. Um I direct the tourist tour education and information service at the state capitol, and then serve as the curator of uh the Save the Flags project.

SPEAKER_01: 3:50

Okay, and then I also have uh Flint's own David Norris, who's a history buff, and who got uh who first got us interested in this subject uh and his interest in uh this Save the Flags project, especially as it relates to Flint. So today we're gonna talk about what is Save the Flags, why it's important to Michigan, and why it's important to preserve our history. And then uh we're gonna talk about the 10th Regiment flag, which was a battle flag that was uh of those who fought from Flint, Michigan in the Civil War, uh with Sherman's army all the way to the sea, meaning all the way to Atlanta. And then uh we'll come back and chat a little bit about what what this flag's role was within the uh the battles themselves and why it is such a significant uh symbolic um uh so symbolically significant to our nation. All right, Matt, tell us uh tell us what uh what is the project that you you're now involved with, uh which is run by the government, I understand.

SPEAKER_00: 5:03

Sure, yeah, I'd be happy to. I wanted to thank you for the invitation to join you on your podcast. Um any uh information we can get out there amongst the citizens of the state about our project is a good thing. Um, so our project actually started about 30 years ago in 1990 with the restoration of the state capitol. Um, one of the reasons the Capitol was constructed the way it was in 1879 was to serve, obviously, as the seat of state government, but uh I think even more importantly to some of the people back then was to serve really as a memorial to the sacrifices um that the state of Michigan made during the Civil War. And what they referred to back then as just the war. There was no question about which war they were referring to when they said the war. It was also meant to serve as a fitting and um fireproof place to store and display the original battle flags that our soldiers had carried so proudly with them in the war. Um, you know, the 1860 census of Michigan listed her population at approximately 750,000 citizens. Five years later, by the spring of 1865, Michigan had sent over 90,000 of her father's sons and brothers to the battlefields of that terrible war. That constituted, to put this in perspective, um, something people can grasp a little more readily, that constituted about 50% of our eligible male population. Just an incredible contribution.

SPEAKER_01: 6:39

Um the battle flag That's about one and one and two out of every eligible uh male actually fought in the war.

SPEAKER_00: 6:48

Exactly. You could imagine that by standards of modern warfare. I don't think our citizens would tolerate such a contribution if one and half of our eligible citizens were off fighting in the war. Um, back then, though, during the war, enlistments were encouraged and the citizens supported the war effort and trying to end slavery and trying to preserve the Union. Um so at the end of the war, um these regiments returned to their home states and they had a grand ceremony in Detroit on July 4th, 1866. It was estimated that a tenth of this population of the state, about 75,000 people, turned out for this ceremony. And at that time, you mentioned Governor Crapo, uh, Flint's own Governor Crapo accepted the battle flags on behalf of the state of Michigan. And Governor Crapo made a solemn pledge to those boys that on that very hot day in July out in the campus Martius in Detroit. And he said, basically, as long as the old peninsular state has a name and a place in this nation, these flags will be preserved, her proudest possessions in her state archives. Um, so the flags, when the Capitol eventually was built here in Lansing in 1879, the flags came into the Capitol. Um, they were first kept in a military museum on the first floor in the South Hall of the building. And then in the winter of 1908, 1909, they were transferred out to the cases in the rotunda, where I actually remember seeing them as a small boy. One of my uh earliest childhood memories was of visiting the Capitol with my family. And I remember standing in the rotunda, literally surrounded by those battle-torn and blood-stained banners. Um, and I'm sure I didn't realize at that young age the importance of the flags, but it made a lasting impression on me. And here I am some 50 years later, having been charged with the awesome responsibility of helping to care for them. So the flags were put into the cases um in 1908, 1909. Um they stayed there um relatively intact until the 1960s. And in that time, a decision was made by the the state of Michigan to, I guess we could say, air quote, quote unquote, do a good thing for the battle flag collection. Um, a lot of states were commemorating the centennial of the war, both north and south in Michigan, and trying to do something to commemorate that event. And Michigan decided a good thing to do would be to send her battle flag collection out for again air quotes, quote-unquote conservation. Uh, that time the flags were actually sewn between dyed layers of net, literally through a sewing machine by the conservator. Um, basically, every time that seamstress's needle went up and down, and that flag put a hole into it and perforated it. Um, it's very different than the conservation that we conduct now on the flags. So then the flags were uh very ceremoniously put back into their cases, and they pretty much stayed there until our building was restored. That project was started in 1989. Original intent of Save the Flags was to um maybe encapsulate the rotunda cases to protect the flags from any damage that might come to them, you know, from during the restoration and the dust and dirt from that project. We started looking at the collection though and realized that if we didn't do something fairly soon, we were in danger of losing them entirely. They were literally falling to bits and pieces, uh, fragments of the flags lying on the bottoms of the cases in the rotunda. Even worse than that, red, white, and blue powder, which is the last stage in the disintegration of silk. And most of the flags were made of silk. They were, it was a lightweight but very durable material. So Save the Flags started. Um, we got uh uh hired a consultant, nationally recognized uh textile consultant to come in. Uh it was based on her evaluation that Save the Flags, which was made up of state capitol and museum personnel and reenactors, and historians, and descendants of men who actually fought beneath these banners. Uh, we made the group decision to remove the flags from the Capitol. Uh, they were sent to the State Museum. Uh, we have a wonderful partnership uh with the state historical center and the state museum just down the street from the Capitol. Uh, they supplied the space, a state-of-the-art archival space where we can properly care and preserve the collection. Um, some of the flags are in still such bad shape, though. They need further conservation. And what one of our goals is to raise the funds.

SPEAKER_01: 11:57

Let me interrupt you for just a second. Yeah, please do. So, as I understand it now, there are no more battle flags inside our state capitol building.

SPEAKER_00: 12:05

Yeah, we have now our replicas. We made copies of about half of the Civil War battle flags. So there are copies of about 80 of them. The entire collection, I should mention, and I'll ramble on and on if you don't stop me, but uh, the entire collection is about 240 flags. 160 are Civil War, and the remainder are flags carried by Michigan troops in the Spanish-American War and World War I. Um, our focus lately has kind of been on the Civil War flags because they're in more dire need of conservation. The latter war flags really weren't used in combat, and they're not as old as the Civil War flags. So uh, relatively speaking, they're in in pretty decent shape.

SPEAKER_01: 12:50

So, Matt, why why is uh why why is symbolically these flags represent uh uh obviously tremendous sacrifice by the people of Michigan, but why why in terms of the battle and all of that, why why why were they important?

SPEAKER_00: 13:11

Yeah, I'm really really glad you asked about that. You know, so the flags were a direct link to the communities from which these men had formed, and Civil War regiments and companies formed in communities. I mean, you had entire companies, uh, which was about a hundred men of the thousand-man regiment that would form in small towns and communities. These men knew each other. Uh, the men of the regiment knew each other, and their their battle flags were a direct link to those communities from where they had come. Uh, many of these flags were very ceremoniously presented to the men of the regiment as they left for the field of war. And um, promises were made by the men to those ladies of the communities, the 10th Michigan Infantry Regiment, their original presentation flag was literally given to them by the ladies of Flint, and it said so on the presentation plaque that was attached to the staff. So these boys they made solemn pledges. They said this flag will become the Paul, the funeral garment of the regiment before we surrender it to the enemy. Every time the men looked to that flag, they recognized that it was a direct link from where they had come and what they were fighting so hard for. Now, logistically, they're terribly important on the battlefield. We're talking 160 years ago. Obviously, people couldn't pull out their phone and text to each other where they were, where they needed to be on the battlefield. The only way a colonel could communicate with a thousand-man regiment at full strength, which they very rarely were, um, was by directing his orders to the men who were in the color guard who were there to protect the flag. And within the color guard, the color bearers, the non-commissioned officers, the corporal and sergeants who were assigned to carry the flags. So if he needed his regiment to advance, the order went to the flagbearer. He moved the regiment forward, and the regiment followed that flag. If he needed the regiment to retreat, the flag bearer went back. If that flag bearer took his staff and planted it in the ground, every man of the regiment knew their job was to defend their that battle flag and the regiment's position on the battlefield to the last man if necessary.

SPEAKER_01: 15:31

That's the old saying, uh, rally around the flag.

SPEAKER_00: 15:35

It certainly is. It comes from the Civil War. Uh, the game I played as a child, capture the flag, comes from the Civil War. The Confederates recognized the surest way to dishearten and confuse the Union troops was by dropping the color bear, by killing the color bear, or even better, by capturing that Union battle flag. Union troops recognized this, of course, about the Confederate banners also, and it became a very deadly um game, if you will, of capture the flag. Some of the most intense casualties usually took place around the color guard. Um, we have instances of entire color guards being killed in single battles, and um uh one battle up to nine men died carrying the regiment's battle flag. That was the 24th Michigan at the Battle of Gettysburg.

SPEAKER_01: 16:26

I think you in your literature that I reviewed before uh talking to you today, uh it talked about the flag bearer had basically a death sentence in many cases uh for taking that uh that duty. And one of the interesting things I I learned was that they picked the tallest guys they could to carry the flag into into battle.

SPEAKER_00: 16:54

And uh yeah, they they liked them to be tall and they liked them to be of the highest moral character, so these were not the um the dredges of the regiment that were stepping up to volunteer for the duty, and many of them were volunteers. I mean, they volunteered to carry the colors. We had an incredible story here from Lansing of a man who uh volunteered to carry the colors in one fight and sent a letter home to his mother here in Lansing. Charles Foster was his name. And he said, You know, I volunteered to carry the flag in the last fight. And I know you're wondering why I would have volunteered for such a dangerous duty. He said, I was afraid that if I didn't volunteer, that the colonel would have to pick a man who had dependent children at home. And he said, Me being free and single, I figured I wouldn't be missed if I was killed. Um in the next battle, Foster was in fact killed carrying the third Michigan's battle flag that was at the Battle of Fair Oaks down in the peninsula campaign.

SPEAKER_01: 17:55

So so the flag when they brought it back, uh, and I think you said it was in 1869. Uh 66. 66. So that was uh uh essentially a year after the war ended.

SPEAKER_00: 18:09

It was, yeah. So so did they gather all the flags back? Well, yes and no. So the men had been ordered to return their colors to their respective states. So a lot of the northern states were having similar ceremonies around the time of ours. Some of the men, and I don't blame them one bit, were shall we say, reluctant to turn over their battle flags to the maybe dubious care of the state of Michigan. So some of the boys held on to them, including the boys of the 10th Michigan Infantry Regiment, which formed in Flint. Um, they held on to their original presentation flag, and it shows up periodically at their regimental reunions. You can see depictions of it, and you know, and photographs, images of it. Um, the last recollection we have of that presentation flag, it was in the um the ownership of one of the last men who was had survived from the regiment. And um uh we have a sneaking suspicion that it could have possibly been buried uh with Mr. Barney when um when he passed away.

SPEAKER_01: 19:19

What was his name?

SPEAKER_00: 19:20

Uh Marvin Barney was his name, and he was from Flint. Uh we found his obituaries, and um kind of sadly for us, there's a number of references to the fact that his coffin was uh quote unquote festooned with flags. And um, we have a sneaking suspicion that it could have possibly been buried. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it's in some citizen of Flint, maybe in a trunk or uh uh you know in a barn or an attic somewhere in Flint and it still survives.

SPEAKER_01: 19:51

Well, hopefully it's not at the pawn shop. I hope not. Well, look, let's uh switch gears here for a second. David Norris is the one who uh I must thank for introducing me to this. He's been talking to me about this for about the last three or four months. Uh, David, uh, tell us a story about the 10th Regiment and its flag and your involvement with it.

SPEAKER_02: 20:13

Well, the 10th Michigan Infantry, as Matt said, was formed in Flint. And these were community gatherings. And while it was formed in Flint, it was made up of Genesee County, Le Pierre County, Saginaw County uh men who joined here in Flint. My great-grandfather, Talman Owen, came from Almond and joined the 10th and served through the entire war. Uh I've always known that. We've always talked in the family. Our family, um, our family history is pretty well kept. And uh so I knew of Talman Owen. I knew that he was wounded at the Battle of Peachtree Creek in taking of Atlanta, uh, and he was restored to service. And so it has to be, it's over a year ago. Uh I wondered I didn't even know what the battle flag of the 10th Michigan looked like. And uh so I'm one of those individuals that I realize the um the importance of our state representatives on things having to do with uh with state government, and contacted uh representative Cheryl Kennedy and said, Does anybody know what the battle flag of the 10th Michigan looks like? I'm assuming they contacted Matt and I got a photograph back of this poor, tattered piece of silk. And uh first I thought I I don't think that could be the battle flag of the 10th, and then learned, yes, it is. In fact, it one of three that um that we know existed, and uh Madden Save the Flags has two of them. And the uh the one that I was most interested in was the one that they fought on, uh fought under that was presented to them by Colonel Lum, their colonel through the entire war, and Lum presented them with a flag in the uh in late 1863, I think it was it was created, and they had it at the beginning of 1864, and they were a veteran regiment by then, meaning that um a majority of the people had re-enlisted. Their term of enlistment had been up. And so Colonel Lum uh presented them with a flag, uh, much like what this the prototype that's uh that's behind me. And it fascinated me, and I decided I really wanted to create for no particular reason a full-size replica of what that battle flag looked like in 1864. And uh, and that began my uh journey of research, and I just had such great cooperation. Um, I think Matt and I have become friends uh in the year of him having to deal with some of my silly questions, uh silly to me sometimes. He always takes it very seriously uh about the flag so that when we create it, when I recreate it, uh it will be very close to the way it looked in 1864.

SPEAKER_01: 23:35

So the flag behind you is from 1864, is that right?

SPEAKER_02: 23:39

This is the design from 1864.

SPEAKER_01: 23:42

And the names on that flag, maybe you could turn around and get your camera zeroed in on it and show us what what what those names are and what the significance of it is.

SPEAKER_02: 23:51

Well, when Lum presented uh this particular flag to the 10th Michigan, uh I'm assuming it was his decision to put battle honors on it, and many of the flags would have battle honors. I mean, the designs were not specific. And so this starts with the 10th Michigan infantry, and then it goes from Farmington to Tunnel Hill.

SPEAKER_01: 24:19

And the the significant place these are places where there's actually they actually carried the flag into battle.

SPEAKER_02: 24:26

Absolutely, and areas that they had taken. And what's interesting is the Siege of Corinth was a massive engagement uh that the uh 10th was involved in uh in support, but nowadays people uh kind of focus that engagement on a place called Shiloh. But the 10th was in support um north maybe in east or west, I'm not sure. But the 10th either was in support or on the front lines. And so once they had this flag, that was their history up to that point. And nothing else was added to this flag. And they had some horrendous fighting going through Georgia. In fact, I mentioned the Battle of Peachtree Creek, and the Battle of Peachtree Creek was the taking of Atlanta, that was the significance. And accounts of that time uh people would relate that uh there was no greater carnage ever in such a localized area than the Battle of Peachtree Creek, and the Confederate Army had jumped the Union Army as they were moving on Atlanta, is what happened. So nothing else was added to this, this flag.

SPEAKER_01: 25:48

Do you know how many people from Flint were engaged in that battle?

SPEAKER_02: 25:54

I think what you say from Flint, from the 10th Michigan, yeah. Um I I would think it'd be close to 900, don't you think, Matt?

SPEAKER_00: 26:05

I wouldn't think. I know they'd re-enlisted, and I think didn't they have almost 400 men when they re-enlisted? Was it 400? 300 and some. I I have it here somewhere in my notes. Um, but um I could look that up actually. But there were, and I think Dave was kind of referring to this, there were other regiments that were also engaged from Michigan, um, and regiments that participated in Sherman's March to the Sea, which you know Dave is referring to, uh, including the 4th Michigan Cav. Um, we have their battle flags also, and they formed in Flint. They were mostly Flint boys, also. In fact, that regiment had the distinction of capturing Jefferson Davis at the end of the war.

SPEAKER_01: 26:51

So the the Michigan regiment was the one that actually captured the the leader of the Confederate Army.

SPEAKER_00: 27:01

Yeah, sure was. Yeah, that was a Confederate B, I guess is a better way to put it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:10

Uh wow, that's amazing. And the fourth was organized in Flint.

SPEAKER_00: 27:15

Yeah, they were Flint boys, yeah. Majority of them, like Dave said, with the 10th. Some of the companies came from different parts of the state, but um, they organized and rendezvoused at Flint, and um, they had a beautiful, beautiful battle flag, also two flags in our collection, like the 10th has um that were carried by the boys. And in fact, I have a little replica. I didn't mean to jump to me again, but there's a replica of the fourth calve right behind me in my window there.

SPEAKER_01: 27:48

Wow, it's in your window. Wow. So how many uh um I know it's terrible. My dad was my dad was a disabled veteran, was a disabled veteran and uh served in the United States Army Air Corps and then later the Air Force, but I can't ever keep track of all these different uh organizational structure uh right things. So uh for somebody like me who has not only a fading memory but a lack of knowledge, could you tell us how many people from the Flint area, if you know, actually participated in various battles in the Civil War?

SPEAKER_00: 28:33

You know, I'd have to do the research on that just from the Flint area. I don't know if you you have that number at the top of your head, Dave.

SPEAKER_02: 28:41

No, I really don't. And even uh with the uh the 10th, I think I have bulk somewhere, I have bulk casualty numbers. Of course, in the days, as many people uh died from disease as died in battle. I mean the attrition rate was was pretty bad from the time they marched out of out of Flint.

SPEAKER_01: 29:00

What was the bulk uh casualty?

SPEAKER_00: 29:04

From Michigan, we had we had 90,000 who fought and 15,000 deaths. But as Dave said, it was kind of unusual to have a regiment have more men die of wounds than actually died of disease. Um, dysentery, you know, was a horrible killer during the war. And you know, a lot of these boys from Michigan had never been farther than maybe 20 or 30 miles from their homes before the war and had never been exposed to a lot of these diseases. You know, sanitation was deplorable during the war. So most of them succumbed to disease. We only had one regiment from Michigan who had more men die of wounds than actually died of disease. Which one was that? That was the eighth Michigan. Yeah, in fact, sadly, a lot of those boys that had been captured during the war um died on the Sultana disaster, the steamship on the Mississippi where the boilers blew. And um, the eighth had a lot of boys on the Sultana, and uh they literally on their way home to Michigan and died in this horrible um explosion.

SPEAKER_01: 30:12

Wow. Where's the eighth? Where's the eighth headquartered or was?

SPEAKER_00: 30:17

Oh golly, again, you I have to look it up for you. I become a I become an expert on certain regiments when I'm studying or when I expect people to ask me questions about it.

SPEAKER_01: 30:29

But I'd have to look that one up. All right, guys. We're gonna get kicked off of here in two minutes. So okay, well what I want to be sure to uh says it's gonna end in ten minutes, so we got uh Hey, listen.

SPEAKER_02: 30:42

What I really want to point out now, I've made this flag that's personal. This this is a flag that's personal. What Matt in Save the Flags is doing is personal too. And um he doesn't sit at the head of a or a co-chair of a exalted position um that is totally fun because the state of Michigan does not fund the conservation of these flags at all, other than the placement where they are, um in the um, you know, in the in the room being preserved there. But as far as the work on keeping them from deteriorating, none of that is funded by the state of Michigan, and that's all by donations. And when I found that out, one of the things that I did uh is I'm a member of uh Fellowship Lodge, which is a Masonic Lodge in Flint, uh, which was appropriate. And they have the the Save the Flags has a promotion basically where you can adopt a flag. Numerous people may adopt the same flag, but you adopt the flag, that's one thousand dollars. And that one thousand dollars doesn't go to, for instance, the uh flag of the 10th Michigan. It goes into where the need is mostly. And so we don't donated a thousand dollars to save the flags, and I think that's what I'm going to do when I get the big flag and I'm taking it around and showing it off, is I'm going to try to promote other people to adopt flags in that collection in order to preserve these treasures of our state.

SPEAKER_01: 32:39

Yeah, well, not to be political here about our flags and our military, but in recent days we've heard uh a certain candidate talking about we need historical education about our heritage. And uh when I uh started thinking about this project that you're involved in, Matt, I thought that's our heritage. Yeah, not the other heritage I saw the other day in West Branch where I saw some guy driving around in his four-wheel drive mud truck with two Confederate flags about the size of the one behind David, flying behind his truck. Yeah uh and when you think about what you guys have just talked about and I don't think we've conveyed in strong enough terms, the um the symbolic significance to the people of Michigan for all this time. Some of that memory has faded, obviously, because we have generational uh uh loss of memory. But that guy in that truck driving through Flint, Michigan in 18 uh 68, he probably would have been he probably would have been uh hogtied.

unknown: 34:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 34:02

I don't think he would have wanted to meet that uh that farmer from Almont who came back. I don't think he would have been too interested in that.

SPEAKER_00: 34:11

No, no, I think you're right.

SPEAKER_01: 34:13

You know, um and really, you know, when you think about it, I guess this was a question for you, man. I I I'm full of editorials, so I can mess it up a little bit. But I mean, obviously, this is everyone's flag in Michigan of every belief, of every political party, of every color.

SPEAKER_00: 34:30

This this collection literally belongs to the people of Michigan. These flags, these flags are a touchstone to our history. Um, they're my touchstone to the history of the Civil War. You know, we've had a passage of the weeks and months and years and decades and centuries, but um, the prayer that these men had was that they would be remembered and the sacrifices that they made would be remembered. Um, this battle flag collection is literally um a touchstone to their history. It's a constant, it's a constant reminder of those 90,000 boys from Michigan who fought in that war and the 15,000 that were buried in their blood-soaked uniforms and shallow, hastily dug graves across the battlefields of the country. Um, preserving this collection is our small way of making sure that their memory is preserved also. And every time I go into their flag storage unit and review these flags, it's a constant reminder of what this project is about. It's sure it's it's caring for them, but it's remembering them too.

SPEAKER_01: 35:43

You know, uh I visited Appomattics where the uh where the army surrendered the Confederacy, Confederate Army surrendered. Uh and then there was a pardon given, which was the genius of uh President Lincoln's forgiveness. And uh it seems to me that we we have sort of this thing where we wanted to bring, you know, at least Lincoln did, and and most of the other people, including those in our state, wanted to forgive and move ahead and move on together. Uh that was the purpose of fighting. And so you know, bringing out our our flags may and one and one point of view might be that that puts aside the division symbol of division. Um but I think we've kind of got the real history is we've lost the the flag itself as a significant symbol of how united America was on the issue.

SPEAKER_00: 36:48

Go go to a pre-COVID, even to baseball games and sporting events now. And I'm amazed at the number of men that don't even bother to remove their hats anymore when the national anthem is sung. And you know, I was not raised that way, and you respect the flag and the part of what we're doing here with this project, you know. And you speak of the Union and North and Confederate soldiers, they they many of them reconciled, you know, they turned out to reunions at Gettysburg, and instead of running towards each other to kill each other, they ran towards each other with open arms and open hands to shake the hands of these boys. And um, in fact, we had Confederate flags in our collection for a number of years, and we made the decision in 1941 to return those flags to the respective Confederate states. And they had a ceremony here at the Capitol where our governor uh turned them over to the governors of those states. So they were trying to reconcile, you know, even back then, the boys that fought in the war.

SPEAKER_01: 37:54

Let's hope that we can uh we can keep that message going. David, you got anything to say before they cut us off? Zoom's gonna kick us out of their corner.

SPEAKER_02: 38:03

Okay, I just sure hope that people will check out Save the Flags in Michigan. Uh donate if you can. If you're a if you're a Mason like I am, there's a great history of Masons on both sides that point together at.

SPEAKER_01: 38:21

David, we're gonna go out and I might even interrupt this podcast with a song by Neil Woodward. Tell us about that if you can, just quick.

SPEAKER_02: 38:28

That's a song that song comes from verse that I wrote about Peachtree Creek, about uh my great-grandfather. And I was so fortunate that Neil Woodward, the minstrel of Michigan, was kind enough to put music to it and make it. All right.

SPEAKER_01: 38:44

Well, well, thank you, Matt, and thank you, David, for an interesting uh visit. And uh good luck in your work. And all of those who would like to see it, we'll post the website address and you can participate in the adoption program.

SPEAKER_00: 38:59

Thank you for the attention. I think I need to hire Dave as a spokesperson for Save the Flags.

SPEAKER_02: 39:04

So hey man, it's honored to be your first podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 39:09

Sounds good. Hey, take care now, guys. Thank you. This is Arthur Bush. We're signing off. Uh, we want to save our flag, and uh, this is Radio Free Flint. Thanks for listening. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_03: 39:35

Tonight, death speeds silent with where we still be home.