Two Chicks and a Hoe
We’re gonna dig deep into some really amazing people and topics — cultivating ideas about nature, the environment and conservation — in your backyard and globally. We want to share stories with you where the only intention may be for you to say,“Wow, I didn’t know that!”…and now that you do, maybe you might think about your relationship with it differently, share the information with a friend or get involved.
Two Chicks and a Hoe
Gorilla on Line One: Don’t Ghost Him—Pick Up!
Did you know there's a surprising connection between gorillas and cell phones that's impacting the environment and wildlife in a major way? That's what we uncover in today's episode with our guest, Eric Ronay, founder of Eco-Cell, a cell phone recycling company helping to make a positive change in the world. Eric shares his journey into the world of cell phone recycling, the shocking statistic that 91% of the world's population owns a cell phone, and how 416,000 cell phones are discarded every day.
We explore the various approaches to reducing the harm to gorillas from cellphone mining, including pre-consumer education, culture change, partnerships with zoos, and engaging with local populations. Eric also discusses the new program, Gorillas on the Line, a keeper-led cell phone recycling initiative aimed at raising awareness about the connection between consumers and gorillas. Plus, we delve into the importance of understanding what happens to our electronics when we send them away to be recycled.
Lastly, we discuss the impact of technology on wildlife and the potential for creating a gorilla-safe cell phone that would help protect these vulnerable species from the environmental harm caused by our devices. Learn how you can make a difference by being mindful of your consumption and join us in this fascinating conversation with Eric Ronay about the connection between gorillas and cell phones.
Eco-Cell
Cell phone recycling drop off locations
Gorillas on the line
Gorilla Species Survival Plan
Virunga National Park
Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund
Interview with: Eric Ronay
Things that make you say "Wow"!
For more episodes and additional information visit the Two Chicks and a Hoe website and our Facebook page.
Big thanks to our Producer, Casey Kennedy.
Music. Millions of us rely on our cell phones for work. Wait, wait a minute. It's not millions, can you believe this? Billions of us rely on our cell phones for work, social connections, entertainment, shopping and so much more, and every year we're tempted and encouraged to get the next best upgraded version And many of us do. But can a new electronic gadget have an impact on wild gorilla populations? What is the connection between gorillas and cell phones? We're going to be chatting with a man that has been working with zoos across the United States to bring awareness to this connection. Figure out what in the world is this connection, and could we get to the point where cell phone providers might one day soon offer a gorilla safe cell phone? The problem is huge, yet there are great people working on solutions, and we're going to chat with one of them.
Speaker 1:Hi everyone, it's Vanessa from Two Chicks in a Ho, the podcast that digs deeper into nature conservation and amazing people doing great things. On today's episode, we're going to chat with one of those amazing people, eric Rene, a gadget recycler and ape lover that has been grappling with millions of discarded cell phones for over 20 years Yes, i did say grappling, as I see Eric in hand-to-hand combat to save us from our very own discarded cell phones. Eric is the founder of EcoCell, a Kentucky based cell phone recycling company that has been recycling our unwanted cell phones for almost 20 years through his extensive partnerships with zoos and aquariums across the country. So, hi, eric, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing fantastic and better. I'm talking to you.
Speaker 1:I love it. Thank you for joining us today. Eric is the founder of EcoCell, a Kentucky based cell phone recycling company that has been recycling our unwanted electronics and mostly cell phones, i think for almost 20 years now, if not longer.
Speaker 2:Correct, we started in 2003.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. So what inspired you to get into this type of business?
Speaker 2:Because this is a regular business.
Speaker 2:It's not a regular business and how to say this delicately There's no way to do it. I was a flop in the regular work world. I really was. I was smart enough to do some things, but it just never, ever felt right. The things that I was doing, from fixing computer networks to you name it it just didn't have it. It wasn't resonating at all.
Speaker 2:And so I bounced around a bunch of jobs and my dad is a serial entrepreneur, i mean, he started more businesses and failed quite a few of them that I can even count. And EcoCell was something that he was looking at and said why don't you go over here and take a look at this and if you can make something out of it, you know, run with it. And that's what happened. I ran out of options. Basically, i was completely out of options on the work world. I was like, okay, i'll go do this thing. So, like we talked about yesterday, you know, the most creative thinking came right before the hanging. So I basically looked at the businesses in great detail and pretty quickly figured out. The most interesting part of what I learned was that primates and electronics were connected, and this was in 2003. And I couldn't.
Speaker 1:That's a big, I think, ah-ha for so many people.
Speaker 2:Well, it blew my mind. You know, we've always gone to the Louisville Zoo, for instance, and always been proponents of the zoo, and they were just building Gorilla Forest. Bill Foster was the executive director And he actually And Louisville Zoo, correct, louisville, louisville Zoo Got it, and so Bill basically told us that, how it was connected, and it just blew my mind. And I'm sitting here thinking, well, there is a business in here, it's just not the one that you know, maybe my dad had envisioned. You know, just trading cell phones for the possibility, you know purpose of trading cell phones. I wanted to get involved with the conservation of gorillas and use the program as a way to do it, and that's how I got involved. I was bad at every other job, came to realize that I had to have a job that was more than just banking money.
Speaker 1:Well, can I say thank God that you were bad at every other job. That's very selfish, but I think. I think we needed you, eric. I think the world in the gorillas needed you, so it happened like it was supposed to.
Speaker 2:It does feel right And I think there's more people out there like me than people understand That need a job that makes. That is more important than just making money to them.
Speaker 1:Right, right Passion Purpose.
Speaker 2:It has to be like that.
Speaker 1:So, okay, you've already said it. Let me put out some statistics that actually blew my mind And I'm sure you have a lot of familiarity with this, but it said that there was 7.26 billion people own a cell phone, which was 91% of the world's population. Is that? I don't even know how old that statistic is. Is that still accurate?
Speaker 2:You know, i know that we just passed 8 billion people. I think it was today, and I know I don't know. I've not heard that statistic specifically. My understanding is that almost everybody in the United States owns one Right And there are places in the world that aren't yet saturated with cell phone coverage. But my guess is that if that's not true, it's real close to being true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, So, and with that. then they said that And I've heard this a couple times now that 416,000 cell phones are discarded every day.
Speaker 2:I believe that 150 million years, i think what they said in the United States and this was an EPA number a few years back, so I think it's probably more.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. So, as I was talking to somebody else about this today and it was kind of like that idea of How do you get people involved in this And the whole idea of, well, recycle your cell phone, And people are like, yeah, so what? You know, it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal to recycle this useless gadget, so to speak. But tell me, tell me what kind of big deal it is.
Speaker 2:You know it's an interesting question. It's one that I'm still trying to work out. You know, we obviously are around and we're not going anywhere. Personally, i think the way to get people to recycle cell phones and I don't want this to sound like generational bias okay. But the generation before my generation next, but the generation before my generation was a more of a consumer organization, a consumer generation kind of a one purpose and out kind of a thing Like a disposable culture almost Got it, and I don't mean that negatively. There's plenty of awesome people out there, right, that's just how it's labeled now, that's just how it's labeled and very materialistic.
Speaker 2:Let's just be real. I mean, i grew up in the 80s and it was all go go. what do you have? I think that's what's changing. is the generations behind that Not necessarily rejecting that, but aren't making that the focus, and so what I thought would be a good idea would be to reach pre-consumers. Okay, two more.
Speaker 2:And I thought the best way to, and when I can say pre-consumers, i mean people that are eight years old, 10 years old, almost to that point where they're moving into a more mature phase of their lives where they can actually be the ones to purchase these things. But I figured those young minds and I talk to people all the time are so much more pliant and so much less jaded that if I could get this information to them about how primates and cell phones and electronics are connected, maybe they will be the ones to put pressure on the companies that make these things to make them like they want them made. They don't want them to hurt wildlife And in every kid I've ever talked to you ask any kid what would you rather have? Gorillas or cell phones, you know, and it's I don't. They love animals, they understand animals, they understand the natural world just inherently. So anyway, i get this information to these kids Eventually.
Speaker 2:I'm hoping for kind of like a dolphin safe tuna situation where they a gorilla safe cell phone, for instance. You know We did it with tuna. I think if this information gets to enough people, i think they'll demand the companies that make them do them. It's more sustainable. But in order to do this. We had to introduce this idea to these people. That's why I chose Zeus all over the United States.
Speaker 1:So let's make that connection for our listeners. Now Let's make the great connection, okay. So I mean, i know we've worked together for so many years now in regards to recycling cell phones and making that connection back to the Democratic Republic of Congo, home of lowland gorillas, mountain gorillas and, i think, cross river gorillas, several other species. But tell me how it's electronic gadgets, cell phones in particular, connected to the world of gorillas.
Speaker 2:It's insane voodoo magic, i'm not really sure This material. There's three different components to a cell phone and this is how they're connected to gorillas in Congo. One. There's those three elements. One's called tantalum and it's a material found in stream beds in massive quantities in gorilla habitats. And so what happened was when landlines weren't a thing anymore and cell phones skyrocketed in usage. I mean, these companies just went after this material and dug out these habitats. Tantalum covers the capacitors inside the cell phone itself and it allows for the miniaturization of the cell phone. It's a very effective way to store energy and distribute it across the integrated circuit boards inside the cell phones. I mean it's insanely effective at holding. It's like a supercharged battery really. So it holds an insane amount of energy for a long time and doesn't leak any energy, and that's why cell phones are so energy efficient.
Speaker 1:And every cell phone uses this material, every piece of electronics.
Speaker 2:Ah, okay, so I mean iPods, anything that's got a green board inside of it and I know everybody knows what the green boards are. You'll notice a little black wafer on there And that's the capacitor coated in tantalum. Ah, okay, so it's this little tiny capacitor, but if you make a billion cell phones a year, you're talking about a tremendous stress on the environment to get after this material. So that's one of them. The other is called tungsten, and that's what makes your phone vibrate. Oh, okay, and it's found in like 80% of the world's supplies, found in gorilla habitats. The other is tin, which helps solder all these components to the actual integrated circuit board itself. Gold, of course, used in massive quantities in cell phones and electronics because it doesn't tarnish, okay, it doesn't rust. It's a pure material and that's why they use so much of it in these cell phones. So that's how it's connected. And then you combine that with the technological age, the electronic age, and now you've got yourself a recipe for disaster.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what about coltan or coltained?
Speaker 2:Coltan is the raw material that's mined in the stream beds, which is refined down into tantalum.
Speaker 1:Got it Okay, so tell me though, eric, can you not find these anywhere else in the world?
Speaker 2:You know, it's like you shoot and fish in a barrel. I mean, you know, if 80% of the world's supplies found in a very specific spot on earth, that's where they're gonna go. That's where they're gonna go. And guess what? The synthetic version of tantalum, which is man-made, is more expensive. Wow, and that's why it's not used.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow. So are these considered conflict minerals?
Speaker 2:100%, okay, 100%. So Congo is unstable And basically, i think some of these factions use that resource to destabilize further the area. Obviously, they're the ones paying miners pittance to go in and tear this material out. It's not the everyday person's fault. It's a very complex issue, one that. But I mean you can't blame it everyday person in Congo for not trying to make a living Correct, right, right, you can't. I mean, i understand that. But these mining companies are making ridiculous amounts of money, you know, with partnerships with electronics companies. ["minerals"].
Speaker 1:So, knowing that this is the place to get these minerals, and this is all happening mostly in Eastern Congo, correct, right, and the gorilla had to Right, where all the gorillas are, of course, okay, so conflict minerals. So is there such a thing, then How can we get to conflict-free minerals?
Speaker 2:Man, that's the billion trillion dollar question. my mom that's been for a long time And is that?
Speaker 1:would that be then saying let's say, for example then like a gorilla, a gorilla safe phone. I mean, is that where that certification potentially comes from? Does it stem back to the actual source of where all these minerals are coming from, the mining?
Speaker 2:part. I think it's really complex because there's multiple ways you've got to approach the problem. One, and it was just mentioned, you have to get people to want a product that doesn't harm gorillas Right, it doesn't harm wildlife. In order to make them do that, you got to make them care about the wildlife Right, which requires culture change, and that's very, very difficult.
Speaker 1:But don't you also have to get the consumer to understand that there's a connection to the gorillas in the first place?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that's why we chose to put our boxes at the zoo and partner with all these wonderful zoos, because 135 million people in the United States alone went to zoos last year Got it Biggest place, So that's 135 million different opportunities. Yes, To talk about that. That's one. Two you've got to figure out how to work with local populations that live in those habitats. They're doing this because they need to make a living. So and I've heard all kinds of different ways to ease that, which everything from ecotourism to getting people involved in gorilla conservation in those areas instead of tearing the habitats out.
Speaker 2:Realizing that a gorilla on planet Earth is critical, I mean, it's an amazing thing, You must have it, It's a spiritual thing, Right? And in order to get these populations to stop mining in favor of conserving gorillas, well, that's going to take some doing as well. Somebody's got to make a living, and I get that. And three we've talked about this. I've heard about this one before. Let's talk legislation and things. I get it. Legislation is important and I understand it From the Frank Dodds Act on it. I get all this stuff, but we don't have time to push legislation that may or may not work. I think we've got to be a little more bold and a little more aggressive with this thing, And the only way I knew to do that. I think the best way to do that is to push it from the consumer up.
Speaker 1:Yes, consumers buy these markets, don't they?
Speaker 2:And I talk to kids all the time and you know I look at them and I go. You realize they're going to make the stuff that you want Right, it never goes. They're going to make what you want. What you want is a environmentally friendly, gorilla, safe cell phone. They're going to make it And they're going to use that as a competitive advantage. But they're going to do what you say And you've got the power to make them change. You know, when you talk to a kid that's 12 years old and they're thinking of you know Sam's under Apple, you know that's quite a conversation to have, but it's true, but it's true.
Speaker 1:I never, you know, I never heard this from the perspective of, you know, pre-consumer, like you mentioned the pre-consumer education part of it, And I love that. But, as you know, you just said we have to move now. So what are you and I going to do?
Speaker 2:Well, i'm going to continue working with Zeus And thankfully I've really we've gotten better at it, believe it or not after 20 years. We're starting to work with keepers now, and that, to me, is to keepers. And so a new program is actually coming around And I really love talking about it. It's called Gorillaz on the Line And it's a keeper led cell phone recycling initiative with these Zeus And they've done an insanely good job of getting people to recycle cell phones.
Speaker 2:That's because when they go visit you know the Gorilla, the Gorillaz at the zoo. You've got keepers talking directly to kids about Gorillaz and what their electronics in their back pocket have in common. And that's where we need that message to be. We need it to be right there, where you know a kid, a pre-consumer, can look and watch a Gorilla mother with her infant and then have a keeper say and that phone that you've got in your back pocket right there, is affecting this animal that you've seen, that you love and that you've come back 10 times this summer to see. And here's what we need you to do to make sure that this species continues. I think if we do that enough time, i think we got it. And that's a new program in Zeus.
Speaker 1:It's a new program in Zeus, i love it. Keeper led to boot. I think that's awesome Keeper led. The people that really know, gorillaz. Yes, yes, the people that have the deepest connection with them.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, it's deep.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is, yes, it is.
Speaker 2:Y'all don't have to tell you that though.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is. Yeah, I wasn't a keeper, but I had a lot of experience with Gorilla keepers. So, yes, yes. So going back to my cell phone right here, let's say it's time for it to go away. I'm going to send it to you. It's current and Reynolds alignments. What do you guess? Oh, got the gorilla connection. Okay, we'll figure some more on that, but tell me, this phone I'm sending you. Where's it going? What's going, what's happening to it? I know that people want to know because I don't think, i don't think this is on the forefront of people's minds What happens to my small electronic gadgets that I'm saying are getting recycled, are they?
Speaker 2:And It's a great question. It's a black spot on the map for a lot of people because, you're right, people just don't understand what happens to the stuff on the back, right. What does that mean, eric? Please tell us. I'll tell you what happens. I can tell you what we do.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's what I need to know, because I'm hoping people send you their phones.
Speaker 2:Okay, so we're that weirdo company, unlike everybody else, that's really focused on penetrating the individual on a public level, right? So we want to keep that phone out of the garbage can, out of the waste stream before it hits the waste stream, and bring it obviously bring the connection to the wildlife to the forefront. Once we receive the phone here at EcoSell, we make an evaluation on it, and that first evaluation is is it so old? does it have any reuse value whatsoever? Can we reuse it? And nine times out of 10, the answer is probably no.
Speaker 1:Right, that's a quickly growing industry, isn't it? in terms of change?
Speaker 2:It is, and we could dig on deep down into this, but the point is that most of the well, so much to talk about, i can hardly even trip over my tongue. So we get the phone and we take a look at it and it's pretty evident. I mean, if it's an iPhone X, it can be reused, okay, and we see iPhone X as we see iPhone 13s, and this is what the 15th of November 2022. I mean, that phone came out a year and a half ago.
Speaker 1:That blows my mind. That blows my mind that the idea of I have to have that new phone, This one's perfectly fine, but let's get rid of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, usually it makes us pause here, niko Cell and I hold the phone up and I'm like I can't believe this. Right, but it happens. Mostly we see those five-year-old, six-year-old cell phones that people have just left in their drawers for a long time, which makes me the happiest, the more broken, the most waterlogged bin in the toilet, run over by a car, bedazzled phone that's the one I want. Ah good, because we've already made the connection between electronics and wildlife and I know that's the most likely candidate to go into the landfill. It's so old, nobody cares about it anymore. The battery is insanely toxic. I want that cell phone.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:So we resell the iPhone 13. I resell that. I have this auction, basically, And we sell wholesale. I sell it with the highest bidder. Make as much money as possible on that iPhone 13,. Save some for myself and pass everything over to a guerrilla conservation organization.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Wait, where is this market? Who's getting that old phone or that kind of new old phone?
Speaker 2:And again, this market changes so quickly. If you'd asked me this question two years ago, I would have said that market was in Hong Kong.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:Nowadays it's more in the United States Interesting OK. Ok, and I do want to make a point here on this one Electronics in China. Regarding recycling, a lot of people say oh my god, they're in burn pits over there, they're being disassembled incorrectly, kids are dying. Well, that was true for a while, especially for the larger electronic items that had absolutely no resell, like remember the big, heavy CRT monitors. They weighed 75 pounds apiece. The big price. What companies were doing was they were sending those to China and saying that they were being recycled. Well, of course they weren't properly Right.
Speaker 2:When I resell an iPhone 13 to somebody in China, that phone gets reused by a growing middle class in China, got it? So everything that I sell is being reused. When I send it to China, a lot of it's being reused here in the United States. Now Everything else, which is the 90% of the stuff remaining, goes to a company that we vet for an environmental recycling accreditation like ISO, r2, or BAN, and we sell those that we call end of life cell phones to them. And that's when the actual, real recycling process begins, when people understand to be recycling, which is dismantling it, grinding it up, reclaiming precious metals from that material and then sequestering all the toxins. That's what happens to the rest of the material that we have.
Speaker 1:Excellent And I think that's important for people to understand. there's an upcycling, meaning that wonderful kind of new phone is going to be used by somebody else, which is awesome, and then the recycling part of it, where it's taken apart, disassembled and taken care of properly, environmentally properly, everything about it is the right way to do it.
Speaker 2:That's right, and we're sticklers for the recycling piece of it, because we make sure that we get certificates of recycling. We make sure that the companies are certified. We look through their ISO certifications. We want to make sure that that's done completely correctly, because we work with so many conservation orders that we want to do it perfectly. Got it, got it.
Speaker 1:So when I first started working with you many, many years ago at the zoo here in San Jose, i knew that our phones were going to you and these things were happening, and the market, like you said, it changes so rapidly. Then, and it was one of those things where the big phone companies were saying here, buy a new phone and bring your old one in, we'll give you credit or some kind of discount, and I thought this is awesome. This is awesome. Yes, it took away from what we were collecting, but it didn't matter, because I felt that those phones were being recycled as well, the ones that were going back to, i guess, the big companies, yeah, the providers. Is that the case, though? Are they being recycled properly as well?
Speaker 2:I don't know firsthand if they are. I know I've read through some of their websites and I see some of the lingo that's being bantered around, and it does appear that at least the stuff that's end of life is being recycled correctly. I would imagine they do upcycle almost every single one of the phones that they take back. Ok, Which is fine. Which is fine. I understand that.
Speaker 1:Meaning, eric, that they're being reused?
Speaker 2:correct, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So when you?
Speaker 2:send your iPhone 12 in to a provider. they say that they're going to give you a brand new phone, which they do, and they lease it back to you and then they resell the old phone that you've given them, for sure Got it.
Speaker 1:All right, so this is a good thing. And again, part of the disposal process of a cell phone, let's say that one that's in somebody's drawer for six years ends up in a landfill. Okay, tell me why? No point, that's why it's bad.
Speaker 2:Inside that. the piece by far that's the most critical in this is the battery. I mean, it's just filled with heavy metal toxins arsenic acid, lead, you name it. it's in there. And what happens? if it makes it to the landfill just through natural cooling cycles, winter, whatever it might be water leaching into it, the casing around that's going to disintegrate And eventually those toxins are going to get released into the environment and they're eventually going to trickle down into our aquifer. And now we've got heavy metals in our environment. That's what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:So phones are either being so, if they're not recycled, they end up potentially in the landfills, and what happens what you just said? or aren't some of them being incinerated as well? And isn't that I mean in terms of trash?
Speaker 2:go ahead. The solid waste that I understand goes to the landfill. That's as I understand it Now, if it's being burned 10 times worse.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's what I was thinking as well, but yeah, i don't know that. I wanted to hear that from you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, god forbid, it's being vaporized. One thing that we've not covered in. Again, we can dig in this. We can talk for four more hours, i promise you I know we could, but I mean, i think they're talking nowadays about the return on these black rectangles. They've kind of hit a spot where how many more black rectangles are they going to be able to market to people? Because this one's got two cameras on it, this one's got three. And you're asking me to turn in my old cell phone. Honestly, god, i think the customer might be getting a little more sophisticated than the marketing effort to sell a new cell phone. I'd heard that one, which gave me great hope. Actually, what does that mean exactly then?
Speaker 1:So where are we going? So that enticement to get the latest. should we be recording this? That enticement to get the latest and greatest?
Speaker 2:Well, that got my curiosity hackles up. It really did. It was just like wait a second, hold on. You're right, the shape of a cell phone really hasn't changed that much at all. I've seen people arguing about which cell phone's better. Somebody will pull up black rectangle out It's four inches long and six inches wide or whatever it is And another person will do the same thing And I see the same black rectangle. One might have a slightly better camera in it. One might have a juju bean operating kernel, which I don't even know what that is. Anyway, you know, i'm just making it up. I mean, like, the point is, when do I become less excited about a cell phone? And I think we're kind of getting there a little bit.
Speaker 2:I'm hearing talk about phones that are dumb phones now being actual marketing ideas, and we just had a company that's making a dumb phone. I want to recycle with this and a dumb phone being it doesn't do social media. All it has on it is a way to get texts and calls and maybe a map or something, a GPS map, and that's it. Because people are realizing is this phone really this beneficial to me? I mean, it's taking up all my brain cycles Before I go to bed. I look at it for two hours. It's now 12 o'clock at night. The blue light's killing me. I don't sleep well. Social media is making me anxious. It looks like a black rectangle. I can't tell the difference between this one and the S that I had earlier, which is now 13 months old. I think the return on this idea is becoming. The balloon was off the rose, a little bit more than it used to be Interesting.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, you take the leap between a flip phone and a smartphone, and that leap is gigantic One you can't even text on it. It doesn't have a smart screen on it, And the one in the smartphone? it looks like wizardry compared to it. Well, we've been stuck in this black rectangle thing for a long time. What is the next iteration of technology that's going to excite people, Because going to a triple slow-mo camera might not be doing it anymore. So I think what you've seen in some of the usage patterns, I think you're changing a little bit. I think this is one of the first years where they've sold less cell phones than they did the previous year.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:I know So and I dare say that just about anybody you talk to think social media is actually a healthy thing, healthy, right, healthy. I don't think too many people think it's healthy anymore. At first it was intoxicating and it still isn't. It still isn't intoxicating, but do you really need it in your back pocket telling you how live your life every second of your day, right, right?
Speaker 1:So I think there's a backlash coming. So the shift is starting and the shift, then, of course, will be to the benefit of the environment and the population and in the world.
Speaker 2:That's right. The hairs are up on my arm thinking about the idea. So I'm sitting here thinking to myself well, maybe the consumer is a bit more sophisticated, because when you give somebody magic, my God, that's incredible. But if you live with it for a while, all of a sudden you're like well, this is not as incredible as I thought it was. In fact, my life might be better by unplugging a little bit. I love it, i love it. I do too. I mean, let's just face it, i think life is richer without a cell phone in your back pocket. I have literally been upset with myself when I lose a cell phone and I'm seriously panicked And I hate that feeling. I can't live with my cell phone for without an hour. You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean Being connected to it, to that little I like that. I've never heard that expression though a little black rectangle.
Speaker 2:And I've got so many of them here in the office and I recycle so many and I've recycled I can't tell the difference half the time I'm sitting here looking at it. You know you got to look up the IMEI number and the difference between an iPhone 13 and an iPhone 12. I mean, is one gram weights difference? I mean I've got a scale here, literally electronic scale. That's how we identify some of these iPhone models.
Speaker 1:You weigh out the phones. You weigh each phone.
Speaker 2:No, but there's. some of them are so similar. The only way you can tell the difference is the weight. Oh my gosh, these are Apple products And it's just like how is this? so? why is this benefiting me again to go get back into a lease on a $1,500 smartphone Because I got another camera or something. What is this? So I'm starting to hear some grumbling and mumbling, which I'm actually pretty excited about.
Speaker 1:That's good, because you would be the pulse, you would have the pulse of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, it's changed. I've seen the whole thing, from brick phones and bag phones all the way up to iPhone 14. No, in one part that we didn't talk about, which I'm interested in too two things how to solve a gorilla problem. And if I'm Tim Cook at Apple and I get a conversation with him and he knows my family, i know his family I'm like well, number one, let's design a cell phone that takes into accounts being able to modularize it, so when you come out with a new camera, i can just get the camera.
Speaker 1:I don't have to get a whole new phone. Okay.
Speaker 2:I can gradually upgrade what I've got my current housing Right Why do I have to have a whole new thing? The second thing is, rather than they've been purposefully avoiding talking about the environmental liability of a piece of a technology, why don't we lean into it? Let's lean into it. Let's not only talk about it because it's going to come out. Let's put a slip inside of every cell phone that we sell. We sell 200 million cell phones a year. Let's put a little slip in there that says would you like to help mitigate the gorilla plight? would you like to donate to the Gorilla Conservation Fund? If?
Speaker 2:so, and this is why, this is why there's this connection there And this is why And Apple's doing its very best, which I think Apple's out in front of things way more than everybody else is. but we need more help, and we need more help from you guys. So, everybody, when you sign up for our cell phone service or Verizon or whoever it is, here's an opportunity to donate $5. Right, i'll bet you, we could raise a billion dollars for Gorilla Conservation that way in the United States every year.
Speaker 1:Right back to the Are you starting these conversations?
Speaker 2:I don't have any contacts in the provider world. Everybody wants to talk to me.
Speaker 1:I had a similar experience. I was trying to follow a single use plastic bottle to. Somebody, threw it out their window, went down the creek. Where did it go? You know as it went to get recycled, you know, so to speak, and I wanted to get. I wanted to see what happened to it at the recycling plant, and I can't get anybody to talk to me.
Speaker 2:Oh, imagine that.
Speaker 1:Imagine that So.
Speaker 2:I can love. I can love. That's okay. I get a lot. I actually got a lot of interest from grad students at a few universities that want to talk about cell phones, which I think is fantastic, and they always come to me and they always say the same thing. I try to get in touch with the providers. They won't talk to me, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, yeah, they don't want, they don't want to talk to you. Yeah, they don't want some of those secrets out And I understand it from I think I understand it from a business perspective. but I like that what you just said lean into it, let's lean into it because we have to face this problem. So let's all put our collective lean into it and face the problem.
Speaker 2:And I think it's a marketing opportunity for them too. And I don't think they fully understand this, with climate change going on like it is and people finally understanding that it's happening And I think it's I think they're understanding this because their insurance records are going up or they can't get insured anymore.
Speaker 1:So connections to that makes it personal to them.
Speaker 2:Personal. It's kind of hidden on the wall, yes And so, and this is what's happened, and they're finally like, well, you know, you're right, the climate really is changing. Talk to them five years earlier. Not, you're not going to get anywhere with them, but hit them in the pocketbook and you're like all of a sudden you're like, well, shoot, we got to do something about this, right? But I think it's going to become an opportunity for companies to differentiate themselves environmentally And I think that time is coming, hopefully soon, thank you. But I am seeing some movement in that direction, which I'm happy about.
Speaker 1:That's great news. I mean that's great news And I don't want to end. I like this because we're not ending with the doom and gloom of it all. We've already talked that, we've touched on that, and I like the idea that we've talked about things that people can do and resources out there for folks, and I highly recommend going to eco-cellorg to get more information, and I love your website because it's not too complicated.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you say that. I love it, because they asked me to come out and talk to some kids at the Louisville Zoo during their summer camps. And invariably I go out there the first couple of years and I'm just blowing them away with information, right, and their eyes are glassing over and I'm like, oh man, this might not be the right approach. I go in there the next time and I take a cell phone and stomp on it on the floor and crack it open And I'm like you see all that stuff inside of it, all that stuff that looks like gold. Well, that's gold. And then they freak out. So you have to be careful. Like you said, too much information sometimes is not a good thing.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, so information's good, but yes, a little bit's here and there, a little bit's here and there, otherwise, you get overwhelmed.
Speaker 1:So go to Eric Eco-Cell's website. I can't recommend or you know it's coming from the zoo world Get involved with your local zoo. They are doing amazing things for conservation far beyond what you see when you walk through the gate And all you have to do is ask. It's there. If you don't want to go to their website, go to the keepers. Go to the people that work there. They would love to tell you all the cool stuff that's happening. In particular, i think the gorilla keepers Especially. I love this Gorillas on the Line program. I think this is awesome because it's their heart. They show their heart when they talk about their gorillas.
Speaker 2:Yep, no nonsense. Straight to the point. I love it.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, i had several I didn't know that moments in the conversation with Eric. Eco-cell is one of the first recycling companies that put the wildlife electronics connection out to the public and how technology is impacting wildlife, especially at the mineral sources in Africa home to the gorillas. The idea was to make this connection for people. Kind of the same idea that was the basis for this podcast to connect the dots from your phone to the gorillas and bring some light and positive into the situation. We have a huge amount of influence and impact as consumers. We truly drive the markets on products. Wouldn't it be cool If we could collectively lean into bringing a Gorilla Safe cell phone onto the market? Thanks for listening and being part of the good stuff that's happening in the world. Take care, you guys.