Two Chicks and a Hoe
We’re gonna dig deep into some really amazing people and topics — cultivating ideas about nature, the environment and conservation — in your backyard and globally. We want to share stories with you where the only intention may be for you to say,“Wow, I didn’t know that!”…and now that you do, maybe you might think about your relationship with it differently, share the information with a friend or get involved.
Two Chicks and a Hoe
Backstage with the Underdogs: A Roadie’s Rescue Mission!
Meet Paul Thomas, a front-of-house sound engineer who became an animal rescue hero during the pandemic. With his touring skills, a van, and a lot of love for dogs, Paul crafted an innovative solution he calls 'Roadies and Rescues'. This incredible initiative transports rescue animals from overpopulated areas to places with fewer animals, giving the animals a second chance at life, while providing purpose for those in the concert industry affected by the pandemic.
Our conversation traces the evolution of Roadies and Rescues, revealing how challenges can give birth to extraordinary opportunities. As the pandemic wreaked havoc on the touring industry, Paul turned to volunteering at a senior dog sanctuary in Petaluma. His love for dogs and his touring skills merged as he began relocating rescue animals, becoming part of the rescue by relocation movement. We also evaluate the lasting impact of the pandemic on the touring industry and explore how Paul's transport program for Second Chance Pet Rescue became a beacon of hope.
Our dialogue also underscores the deep bond between humans and dogs and how it could be harnessed for the benefit of the music industry. With a vision of backstage doggy play yards at Coachella, we discuss the abundant opportunities to raise awareness about adoptable dogs, overcrowding issues in local shelters, and the potential for rescue dogs to aid in mental health. Join us for an enlightening conversation where the world of touring merges with animal rescue, creating a harmonious symphony of hope and second chances.
Roadies & Rescues Facebook
Roadies & Rescues GoFundMe
Interview with: Paul Thomas
Things that make you say "Wow"!
For more episodes and additional information visit the Two Chicks and a Hoe website and our Facebook page.
Big thanks to our Producer, Casey Kennedy.
Rodies. They're the crew that brings us the music we love, the crew that manages the musical gear, sets up the stage, ensures that the band sounds clean and then swiftly packs up everything for the next venue. I make it sound easy and I'm sure I'm missing a million steps. I recognize that Rodies undertake a massive endeavor to bring us live music. Ugh, live music. Oh. So many good times, so many unforgettable concerts, yeah, okay. So now let's shift gears to the wonderful world of dogs. There's nothing quite like them. And just when you think live music and dogs have nothing in common, enter a worldwide pandemic that brings everything to a standstill. At first glance, these three elements may seem unrelated Live music, dogs and a pandemic. However, our next guest, paul Thomas, has managed to find a connection. Combining his passion for dogs, unwavering dedication to his art and a positive outlook during the pandemic, he has created something remarkable Rodies and Rescues Hi everyone, it's Vanessa from Two Chicks and a Ho, the podcast that brings you amazing people doing great things in our world.
Speaker 1:I didn't have to look forward to find another person doing something fantastic. Allow me to introduce Paul Thomas, a front-of-house sound engineer who has established an organization that leverages skills from the music industry to provide an essential service, not just for dogs but also for people within the music community. Music. Hey everybody. It's Vanessa from Two Chicks and a Ho, the podcast about amazing people doing incredible things in the world. I'm sitting in a really special place right now with one of those amazing people, so you might hear some of our visitors come by. We're sitting in a dog park in Mountain View, california, and I'm sitting here with Paul Thomas, who has an amazing connection to dogs. That's why we thought we'd come to a dog park and you know, if they come over, that's even better if they chat with us for a bit. But hi, paul, welcome and thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, welcome. Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Good. So I found out about Paul via a friend that said, Vanessa, you have to meet this person. He's doing really incredible things with dogs. I'm like, oh, wow, you know. Hey, tell me about dogs, Anything to do with dogs. You guys know, that's like my most favorite animal. Paul does something really special. So Paul, tell us about this group called Roadies and Rescues.
Speaker 2:Yeah, roadies and Rescues is something that I started when the concert industry was shut down during the pandemic. I used to be a roadie professionally which was touring with bands as an audio engineer, and it was sort of born out of the idea that there were a lot of people from the concert industry like myself who were suddenly very abruptly left unemployed and the idea was to start recruiting people from the concert industry to give them something to do and something positive to focus their energy on and get them involved in helping transport rescue animals Not just dogs but sometimes cats as well, but basically transporting rescue animals from overpopulated areas like the Central Valley of California up to places where they didn't have the overpopulation problems in Oregon and Washington where there are rescue organizations, where oftentimes the people who run those rescues up there are saying we have more good applicants and homes than we have actual animals, not animals.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I certainly did not invent the idea or the concept. I just found out about it while the pandemic was happening. And since I was unemployed and had two vans sitting in my driveway and I used to do a lot of touring, I figured this is a world I could take a sort of a little side route or a detour into doing this.
Speaker 1:So this is kind of a good thing that came out of the pandemic.
Speaker 2:For me? Yeah, it definitely was. I had a next girlfriend up in Sacramento Was the person who really got me sort of there we go, there's our friends.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what we like.
Speaker 2:An ex-girlfriend up in Sacramento had she had been doing a lot of fostering for one of the shelters up in the Sacramento area, and that was what sort of began to open my eyes and sort of gave me a glimpse into the world of animal rescue. And it was really only about just like about three months before the actual shutdown occurred in the pandemic. It was in just around late November or early December of 2019. I had just started volunteering as just a once a week volunteer at a senior dog sanctuary up in Petaluma where I was living, and then, you know, lo and behold, three, three and a half months later, everything sort of hit the fan, and so I was already just starting to kind of get into that world of animal rescue and volunteering with animals.
Speaker 2:The pandemic being what it was, it's hard to really say that it was a yes, it was a good thing that came out of a lot of Looking for the silver lining.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly there was a there.
Speaker 2:Well, I was able to. I was able to take lemons and make lemonade.
Speaker 1:Right, right. So that process of doing that. So, as a roadie, my understanding is and I don't know if our listeners know about this or not but as a roadie, you're the one that takes all the gear to the next concert venue for the band, that kind of a thing, and we're dogs and you have space then for dogs. That's what it sounds like. That's my interpretation of what's going on here.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, so not in the sense that we're doing it actually in between concerts or events, but when everything was completely shut down, I basically was able to take a skill set from when I was on the road.
Speaker 2:Basically, it was a pretty normal day in the touring world that you would wake up in Denver, let's say, and you'd have to get your day started at 7 o'clock in the morning because you're going to drive from Denver all the way to Kansas City and it might be like eight or nine hours of driving and then after the eight or nine hours of driving, you have to load all of the equipment in, set everything up, do a sound check, go eat dinner, the band puts on the actual performance, they do the show, you tear it all down and then by 2 in the morning you're heading to a hotel room, and so I'm already acclimated to and understand the idea of waking up in a different town every day and facing another 16 or 18 hour day of work on fairly minimal sleep. So that was kind of the skill, if you want to call it a skill, but that was part of the skill set.
Speaker 1:That seemed to translate well to this idea of what the hashtag as rescue by relocation, because so the idea so three months you're into potentially volunteering with dogs and then three months in the pandemic starts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so the whole concert world gets shut down. The concert venue that I worked at in San Francisco was closed, yeah.
Speaker 1:And a lot of free time on your hands, yeah.
Speaker 2:A lot of free time and a couple empty vans parked in the driveway, and so I figured, once I started to understand, that there was this underground movement of people who would relocate these dogs. It's so well then, that just naturally seen it. So, again, it's within my skill set, I've got a vehicle to do it and I've got ample time.
Speaker 1:Good combination then.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Good combination. So when did it actually start? When did the first, I guess, group of dogs get?
Speaker 2:transported by you. Gosh, it's hard to even remember and pin it all down, because when everything is shut down for the pandemic, I was still able to go once a week for my three hour shift and still could go volunteer Because animal rescue is considered an essential service.
Speaker 2:Right, right so even though it's not like food service or working in a grocery store or whatever, it is considered an essential service. And it was something where that particular rescue had taken a lot of precautions as well. So they were starting to scale back the number of volunteers that could be on the property at the same time and people were wearing masks indoors and everything. So it gave me something to still look forward to and it got me out of the house without really giving me any real high risk exposure to other people. So I was still continuing to do that and with that organization they needed.
Speaker 2:Occasionally they would say, hey, there's a dog down at the that we're interested in rescuing. That's in the shelter in Modesto. Would you mind driving down there? And it was funny because they would say it's going to take you two hours to get there, then you have to deal with everything at the front desk and actually getting the dog and then it's going to take a couple hours to get back. It's a big part of you and I was like that's a big part of my day. I'm like that's like a third, that's like a third of my normal day back when I was a touring person and I've actually been off the road for 10 years.
Speaker 2:I actually stopped touring at the end of 2012 after about six or seven years of pretty heavily being out on the road, at least around anywhere from four to six months out of the year, which is for a lot of roadies that's actually not that heavy of a schedule.
Speaker 2:I know a lot of people who are on the road nine months out of the year maybe even 10 months out of the year, but just being able to always recall that I know that when push comes to shove, if someone asks me and says, hey, can we have a situation where this band's vehicle broke down, they have to get a rental. We need someone to take their gear as soon as their van is fixed. Bring the trailer of all of their stuff from San Francisco to Boise, idaho, and it's got to happen by tomorrow. That I was somebody that people at different management companies would call me.
Speaker 1:So I get that that's just a fraction of potentially. I mean like a 16 hour day consisting of a lot of driving. So to be asked to do something like that really wasn't that big of a deal for you in terms of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in terms of time, I can put in those kind of hours and I can put in those days, like I said. As I was saying before the dogs came over people, even though I've been off the road for quite a few years, probably at least once a year I'll still get a call from a management company somewhere and they'll say hey, something's come up and we need you to. Can you drive overnight, take this band's gear when they finish up their show at the Fillmore and then hustle it down to LA first thing in the morning, because as soon as their show at the Fillmore is done they have to fly somewhere and do some promotional thing and then fly and meet you. It's just like really weird, crazy hectic schedule.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of the life of a roadie, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean there's different levels of things. A lot of people, when they start out in the touring side of the industry, they might be starting out most likely they're kind of getting their feet wet. In like the van and trailer tour a circuit where it's bands who don't have a lot of money, they don't have a lot of crew. You might be the only person they have is you might be there, one sort of like catch-all, sort of like quote unquote roadie, and you're the person who helps.
Speaker 2:Do like you're driving the van part of the day, you're setting up the merch table, you're unloading the gear and setting up the gear and maybe you're even helping out with doing sound or whatever, and you're all crammed into a van and you're pulling a trailer and you're driving around the country and you're doing clubs and you're playing for 100 to maybe 300 people a night.
Speaker 2:But then as you get, as the bands become more successful and they're selling more tickets and they're selling more merch and they're playing larger venues, then they might scale up to the point where they're actually touring on a large tour bus and you have a person who's just a commercial, you know, like a CDL license holder, and that's all they do is they drive semis and tour buses and so then at that point you actually get to sleep in a bunk at night and you don't have to drive overnight and put in kind of as crazy hours. But generally speaking, those just sort of really really long days at all different levels. I mean, I've even done things too where I've toured with acts where for maybe three or four months in a row all we were doing is flying to every gig and we were just doing stuff on the weekends, and so that's sort of the same way, because now you spend almost as much time in the airport security lines as you do on the actual plane.
Speaker 2:You're still, it sounds luxurious and it sounds easy, because you're like, oh yeah, we're going to fly to this college in Maryland and do a gig and then fly back the next day, but it still ends up being like a 16 or 17 hour day because of all the time you spend in the airport.
Speaker 1:So okay, so now tell me, I get your background. How did they dogs, how did the animals get involved?
Speaker 2:Well, so, as I was mentioning before, I had just started volunteering at a place right before everything kind of got locked down in the whole concert industry, kind of nationwide, was really put on hold. And then I don't even really remember how it began, but somehow I had seen something on Facebook about somebody needing to transport an animal somewhere. And a lot of times within California there will be rescue organizations who they might just like pull.
Speaker 2:Maybe they're like a specialty, like, let's say, it's a German shepherd rescue, and they'll say hey we heard that there's a German shepherd at this particular shelter that needs to get out before because it's at risk of being euthanized, because it's been there so long and so they might just like send someone down to pick up that dog and bring it back.
Speaker 2:So what I began to notice as I was joining like these Facebook groups of like these sort of like informal, loosely organized groups of people who helped out with volunteering, with this transport stuff, is that you would see something where, like, let's say that they have a dog in Stockton and there's a rescue in, let's say, reading, just a few hours away, who wants to get the dog?
Speaker 2:Well, a lot of the people were still employed or had other commitments, or they have kids to take care of or whatever, and so someone would say, oh well, I can pick up, I'm in Stockton, I can pick up the dog in Stockton and I can drive it up to Sacramento, if someone can take the dog from Sacramento. Then somebody else in the group would say, well, I'm in Sacramento, so I'll take the dog from Sacramento to Chico, and then someone would say, well, I can get the dog from. So there would be a lot of handoffs and it would just take incrementally a lot longer than it really should have Right and kind of stressful on the animal too and then that's my main concern is that, right away, the thing that I identified was that there's you have two big risks with the number of handoffs.
Speaker 2:Every time there's a transfer from one vehicle to another, there's a chance that the stressed out dog could bite somebody right, or that the dog could run away and escape in a foreign, you know, in a town where it doesn't you know, it could get lost, totally lost, yeah.
Speaker 2:So when I looked at that situation and I just said, well, hey guys, I'm unemployed and I have a van and I can put a crate in my van, why don't I just come pick up the dog in Stockton, drive it to Redding and then I'll just drive home to Petaluma, and people were like, oh my gosh, if you'll do the whole thing, that would be amazing. And so I quickly realized that, with the time constraints that other people had and all of the factors that were leading to where it was kind of common, there would be these like firemen brigade of, like handing off the bucket of water, you know, to put out the fire I realized that in a lot of ways it would just make more sense for me just to step in and just do the whole thing.
Speaker 1:I was quite wowed by the connection and the bond that Paul has with dogs. And then, of course, I realized that so many of us have that bond with the dogs in our lives. So I asked a couple of my friends about their dogs and their relationships with them. It means everything.
Speaker 2:I love having the dog. It's like having another family member that you love, but unconditional love. She keeps me alive. I live for her to a great extent. I walk and hike every day with her twice a day.
Speaker 1:She keeps me going because I'm retired, so that's kind of how this started.
Speaker 2:So that was already happening in the background of my life in the first maybe four or five months of the pandemic Got it and then it was about six months in. It was around maybe September of 2020 when they announced that the Coachella Festival in 2021 was going to be altogether either canceled or, at the very best case scenario, it would be postponed until something like October of 2021. Okay, and I realized this like oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's what we still had hopes. Yeah, yeah, doing stuff, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so once they announced that that was happening and my first thought was, okay, the people at Golden Voice who've been putting on this you know the Coachella Festival for, like you know, 25 to 30 years now.
Speaker 2:I realized they may not have the governors, might not be on speed dial, but they definitely know people close enough to the people in the government and they probably have a pretty good inside track on, like, how long this thing is really going to drag out, right, and I thought, if they're, if they're saying six months from now that they're not going to have Coachella happening, then I was like this thing's actually this is going to be going on for a while. And then it dawned on me oh, my friend Matt, who he's worked for Golden Voice and he was in their transportation department and he's worked for them for 15 years. I thought, oh man, well, I guess Matt's not going to be going back into the festival world next year. And then it just sort of like all kind of hit me at once and I went man, all these people that I know, all these roadies and all these touring people that I know are still going to be unemployed, like you know, a year from now.
Speaker 2:This could be going on. And then that's when I was like, okay, this is starting to make sense now. And Matt, who I've known since the early 90s I mean, I already known him for 30 years at that point and and he's a longtime vegan and animal lover and everything and I went, oh you know what? Okay, I've got an idea. And if there's anybody who I want to partner up with me to do this, I need to go sit down and talk to Matt. So we, you know, we sat down and we had lunch and I said, look, I've got this concept for, for like what will eventually turn into a nonprofit and I want to do this thing, and I want this to be something that not only helps animals but helps people in the concert industry and gives them something meaningful to do. You know, won't be like an everyday thing and even if we're a nonprofit, we can't necessarily afford to pay them.
Speaker 1:Right, but it gives them purpose, but it gives them purpose.
Speaker 2:And it gives them something to look forward to. Yes, so important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a so really so. So kind of baked into what we started talking about from day one was this sort of a mental health component, because another thing that you know is very much related is that anyone who's ever toured as they're for their living and that's how they actually were, it was their career and it was. It's not just your career, it becomes your lifestyle as well. Anyone who does that for a living definitely knows that post tour depression is a very, very real and significant thing.
Speaker 1:That's that getting high, that's that high of of what you're doing and then it being over, yeah.
Speaker 2:Very, then, all of a sudden, very abruptly being over and even to put the word high on, it is, it is. It's a very emotional high. Touring is a very intense, it's a very, it's very difficult. You really, as you go through the ranks of the touring world, you quickly separate the wheat from the chaff and you find out who's not cut out for that sort of thing and who is.
Speaker 2:And then, once you distill it down to where you've got a good core of people, when you're on the road of people, they immediately become like your family. Everybody has to like band together against all the you know problems and difficulties that come up on a daily basis. You're just every day on the road. Different challenges are thrown at you all the time.
Speaker 1:And these are the people that you lean on and depend on.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And then all of a sudden, tours over one day and then, and you might have tours lined up, but you might be suddenly going from like, oh, we just did like a seven week tour and now we're going to go home for four weeks, and then we've got this European leg of the tour after that for four weeks. But it's those weird intervals in between where it's really hard to come home decompress from the intensity of everything you've done. And then what do you do? Do you like pick up a job for a few weeks at a club while you're home doing production work or doing?
Speaker 2:sound or lights or whatever you do, or do you just sort of like live off of the money you just made? You know, it's a really. There's a lot of anxiety and trying to figure out how to like briefly reintegrate into normal life, knowing that in five weeks you're going right back out on tour again, right, right. So it's a very it's a. Emotionally it's a. It's a very difficult life cycle. It's a very difficult lifestyle in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1:This is, and this is pre pandemic, of course.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that was normal. This is right, this is normal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was, that was what you just said, is that it's a different kind of lifestyle and challenging? Yeah, it's, yeah, that's just when the.
Speaker 2:That was just when things were back, you know, in a normal way. So, yeah, it's a, it's a. It's a very challenging lifestyle and we were anticipating again. From our very first discussion, I said, look, I had this idea and I had this concept, and here's we talked about all the long range, here's how we could grow this and this is what it could eventually become, and part of it was some day. Whether it's six months from now or whether it's two years from now, at some point the concert industry is going to come back.
Speaker 1:Now this is let me. Let's clarify that, though that's what was said a couple years ago when you started this concept. Yeah, this is not now because it's back. Yeah, this is in.
Speaker 2:September of 2020. Got it Okay got it when, again, like we're finding out that Coachella of 2021 is going to be canceled or postponed and so we really don't know, like now we're really thinking this is could drag on for a long time, right, but we knew from day one that, even once the concert world came back and Rodies were back to being employed and back to doing what they normally do and going back to their normal lifestyle, that what we were planning to do with Rodies and Rescues would still be relevant in their life.
Speaker 2:Because when you come home for that three weeks or six weeks or whatever, and you're facing the possibility of all of that anxiety and a post tour depression and really crashing- from that high that we could be something that you could at least look forward to, that you would have something fulfilling or you know that you're helping these animals and you're doing something that's very purpose driven and it's not just about like a paycheck or anything Right? So we knew that long term this was still going to be relevant, even after concerts came back. We never thought that, like this was a temporary thing, just for during the pandemic and I love the idea.
Speaker 1:I have to say this, paul I love the idea that, as much as I love dogs, but this was a really, like you said, for mental health, for humans as well, so the two things at once, that's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, once we hit on it and we really started talking about it and fleshing out the idea and we were just, you know, spent a couple hours just batting all these ideas back and forth. We both knew that this was absolutely a viable, solid idea, even after concerts came back.
Speaker 1:Perfect, good, good. So tell me now concerts are back. Well, yeah, concerts are back and they are back in a big way. Now here's. Yeah, tell me, there's a caveat here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this is now. This is where, uh, things have not gone according to plan and we are still very much pushing this bolder uphill. Uh, and it's a very uh, it's a very steep hill hole right now. Uh, one of the things that I could not have anticipated is that a lot of people who are in the touring industry are not w two employees, meaning that they do not get a paycheck with a stub attached that shows that they've paid all of these like federal taxes. Most of them are ten, ninety, nine people.
Speaker 2:Okay, in a lot of cases, and what happened is because a lot of those folks were ten, ninety, nine uh employees, or ten ninety nine could be there, not, please. They're actually considered independent contractors. They could not qualify in any state to receive any kind of unemployment when the pandemic happened. So what happened is, according to the industry statistics that I've read, somewhere around fifty five to sixty percent of people that used to be professional roadies left the industry permanently because, as soon as everything happened, they had to immediately go out and get jobs because they had no benefits coming to them. I'm fortunate that, because I've been off the road for quite a few years and because I've worked at the bottom of the hill right in san francisco for sixteen years right, I've had a w two paycheck right.
Speaker 2:So I was paying into the california unemployment system and I was able to get a tiny trickle of unemployment to help keep me going. When I mean, I filed the same weekend that they shut down san francisco, the same weekend that the mayor ordered all bars and clubs closed.
Speaker 2:I was online filling out my unemployment application that weekend and I was able to get money right away I mean, a lot of people didn't have that opportunity no, and so they ended up having to go out and get jobs immediately, at whatever jobs they could get, wherever they live right and not a roadie yet that was done.
Speaker 1:That was done, that was absolutely done for the foreseeable future, right, yeah?
Speaker 2:and so what has happened in the time since the lockdown is that two things that happened. Half of the professionals left the industry and they're not coming back right. So now you've got half as many people to fulfill this, to fulfill those roles, half the number of people who actually have that skill set and have been road tested. Then all of the artists and performers who lost over an entire year of their income from touring and being on the road are now booking almost twice as many shows now to make up for it, to make up for it as they come out of the pandemic. So you basically have now the people are qualified to do that kind of work, have literally three to four times as many job offers. And what's really scary is that some of the production companies and sound and lighting companies they're literally hiring kids out of high school, putting them on tour buses, on major tours and sending these kids. I mean, these people have no experience in the concert industry. There's some of the companies and some of the people who staff these tours, whether it's management companies or, again, the production companies themselves. Right, they're so desperate for personnel that they're just grabbing people off the street. They're just. They just need bodies to fill positions in years. They're throwing them into the deep end of the pool and just like hoping that they can swim. So that's a very weird thing that's happening.
Speaker 2:And basically this is to kind of back up a little bit. So we have the concept, we have the idea. We started working on all of this non-profit stuff on sort of the more legal side of it and the insurance and everything, but all of that took about six months, right. So by the time we announced what we were going to do, it was the end of march of 2021. The pandemic has dragged on for a full year at this point. And then we come out and we say we've got this idea. We have all of our ducks in a row, we have the insurance. Now we're doing all this stuff through a non-profit and here's, here's what we're going to do and this is our plan.
Speaker 2:And all these people I knew on the west coast in Seattle, san Diego, los Angeles, bay Area, portland, sacramento they all said this is amazing, this is a great idea, and they're like I'm an unemployed roadie, I want to get involved, I love what you're doing. Well, guess what? Six weeks later basically it was around, maybe May they said oh, california's going to reopen concerts next month. Everyone that was enthusiastic, vanished completely, disappeared on me. They all got called back to the sound companies. The tour managers that I knew were immediately saying okay, we're doing, we're booking all these, make updates, I'm already advancing all these shows. I have to do all this stuff to prep the tour and get it ready. You know and so what did that do?
Speaker 1:what did that do yeah?
Speaker 2:it left me completely on my own. So for the last two years that we've been operating officially under this 501c3 of Second Chance Pet Rescue, the Roadies and Rescues Transport Program, has been just me, oh my god. I've had a few friends. I had somebody in LA and I've and I've had friends in the Bay Area who've been able to jump in and and help out with some things that were semi local, like hey, I need you to take this dog from LA over to Santa Barbara and then come back. Or hey, I need you to take this dog from San Francisco out to Stockton and back right for vet needs and things like that, so I've
Speaker 2:been able to get to recruit a few people here and there to do individual things, but basically, once we put the word out, all of these rescue organizations were like beating down my door, saying so. It's almost like the opposite of what happened with the concert industry coming back all of a sudden because they know what I'm doing now and what I'm offering with this transport program. I'm inundated with offers and people begging me to transport animals to Oregon and Washington. There was a point in the summer of 2021 where I went.
Speaker 2:I basically went to Portland in the back, I think seven times in nine weeks oh man, all right it was almost every Monday for two months oh my gosh, I was driving a van with anywhere from like 10 to 10 to 18 dogs at a time all the way to Portland and again, like these are like 16 hour days wow, okay, so so you're it yeah so I'm in and now.
Speaker 2:Now we're seeing how overworked and overloaded everybody is in the concert industry and it's gonna be. It's gonna take a while to bring enough new people in and get them trained and qualified and and again sort of separate out who is built to be on the road okay, so this, but so this has not diminished or deterred you.
Speaker 1:No, okay, that's really what I want to hear too and my car. Currently it's roadie and rescue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of roadie and rescue and and and, uh, matt in his role. Um is his. His role is less defined because he's not actually just doing the drives with me, right, um? And he's got two very young kids at home and and he actually opted once concerts came back. He opted not after 15 years of doing it, he opted to not return to the world of working music festivals, okay, and doing transportation for music festivals, um, so he is a stay-at-home dad and we have meetings every couple out of every two or three weeks, like we'll all go up to the Sacramento area and we get together and we have lunch.
Speaker 2:We kind of discuss like what's happened since the last time we talked and then like plans for how we're going to keep pushing this boulder uphill, um, but essentially it has been just me, it's just been myself. But because I'm back to work full time, it's really difficult to find two days in a row that I even have off, so that, uh, either I'm working at the at the concert venue in San Francisco, I'm either working at the bottom of the hill or I'm running my own sound company and doing events on the weekends through my sound right to make ends meet yeah, and so I'm trying to pay all of my bills and do all of my stuff, and then I just try to squeeze in the dog, rescue stuff wherever I can so then let me ask you, paul, about our listeners what do you want anything from our listeners?
Speaker 1:and and I, and I say that, and I, I our listeners are, you know, varied people that have different backgrounds. Some are interested in helping, some just want only information, which is great. That's the purpose of this is, hopefully, to get people involved in some way, if this touches them in some way yeah so are you looking for potential drivers? Are you looking for funding?
Speaker 2:well, there's always, there are always um rescue organizations that are in need of drivers, for sure. Okay, um, we just because we don't want to, and so that. So, if people are willing to do that sort of thing, there are certainly a lot of organizations that they can volunteer with to help do that um and I, and I think it's important to know, because I think I don't think a lot of people know that I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't until a few years ago.
Speaker 2:Like I said, I just very, you know, oddly enough, just kind of happened to stumble my way into it.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of rescue groups then that are looking for transportation people to drive animals to destinations where they could potentially get homes. Yeah, they're forever homes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, and a lot of times too, they even need things just locally. They need drivers. A lot of times they might just say, you know, we have a dog that just needs to get to this particular vet appointment in the morning, or sometimes they just need somebody to go pick up supplies and, you know, run errands for them or something, and so those are always opportunities that people have. So, you know, I would say for us, we still want to stay on mission with the idea of that. We want to bring roadies into this world Because, again, there's a very specific mental health component that we're concerned about that we want to bring it back to them. So when people who aren't from the concert world and don't necessarily understand the lifestyle and the hours that you put in, how many hours it takes to get somewhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know we, when they come and they offer to help us out, I just will try to point them in the direction of other rescues in their area that they can work with, because we still have a very specific vision of the community that we want to serve.
Speaker 1:Got it, and it really is the music industry and the dog rescue. You know the dogs that need to go up to their next spot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Got it, got it. So I get that and then I understand too. So for the people that are interested in doing this, there are a lot of organizations out there that you can help and participate with. Roadies and rescues is a little different, it's a little bit more of a niche, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Which makes total sense. I get the idea that a 16 hour road trip truthfully, I wouldn't want to do a 16 hour road trip with in a van with a bunch of dogs or cats yeah, I'm not built for that. I get that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but once people have been road tested and you know that they can handle being in a van. Now I get it If they can handle being in a van with a bunch of musicians which at times can be like a bunch of like feral animals.
Speaker 1:Yes, now, I get it. Now I'm making this connection to understand why you, you know you're very particular who you want to have work with. I get it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good, well, and again, because of the lifestyle and everything and the mental health component of what, of how we feel that what we do could be beneficial to people in between tours. I feel that other people who aren't part of that, they have, if they they probably already have a lifestyle and they probably already have things that are more conducive to having outlets for those needs of mental health and whatnot, right. So that's why we're just trying to stay very much on mission. That we get offers from people to help us out, I get it, but we're trying to stick with the concert industry angle.
Speaker 1:I get it. That makes total sense. And let me ask you to Paul you mentioned to me on the phone that you had an idea at one point to. We've talked talked a lot about this now about mental health for folks in the industry, which is awesome, but you also brought up an idea which I thought was even more awesome was the idea of bringing some of these rescue dogs to backstage for the folks in the industry, that whole I want to sit with the dog kind of a thing during my in my break to bring me that calmness, that peace of mind, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's a, it would be well, there's a few ways that that could be beneficial to both the animals and to the people in the industry. So, from the first day that Matt and I sat down and talked about this, here's what I think he was like. Well, look, he's like I've. I've been yeah, I've been a golden voice for 15 years and he's like I know everybody in every level of the offices at the backstage of Coachella.
Speaker 2:And he said we could, we could arrange something where we would get our own backstage trailer, the same way that the artists have their own like backstage areas, and we could have like a fenced in a doggy like play yard and people would love that Like, because you know the show is going on all day long, right, and the show is in the opening time slot and they're playing at noon.
Speaker 2:They're just going to wander around for the rest of the day and hang out and catering and see their other buddies that are roadies, that are that they, you know that happen to be intersecting, that their tours are both bringing them to the festival, and then they're going to go maybe see a band on one of the different stages or something. But if they knew that there was a place where they could go hang out with dogs, I mean, who wouldn't avail themselves of that kind of opportunity, right? So he had the idea and he said, you know, we, we could do a thing backstage at Coachella. And then you know, and then, of course, we immediately realized, well, yeah, what we could do is we could find a rescue organization in that area that has dogs that have been at the shelter for a long time. We could have them bring the dogs.
Speaker 2:They would be the ones who provide the dogs and then we could live stream it on Facebook or YouTube.
Speaker 2:So here we are backstage at Coachella and we've got these dogs here and we're hanging out with all these other roadies and people and we could talk to people and interview people and inevitably it's there.
Speaker 2:You would absolutely be guaranteed that at some point the well-known artists are going to, are going to walk by and they're going to say, hey, what's this? And they're going to, oh, I want to come in and play with these dogs. You know, and it just gives you a great opportunity to say hey, like here's so-and-so who's headlining this particular stage tonight, and they're back here playing with this dog who came from the shelter in, you know, apple Valley or the shelter in Riverside or whatever. And, by the way, this dog needs to get adopted, you know, and it would be a great opportunity for us to get the word out there and it would also be a way, too, that roadies and people who are backstage at those festivals, who haven't heard of us, would stumble upon us, oh, and you can get more drivers and we could get more drivers and we could sort of recruit people, and so we're not there yet, but it's in the works.
Speaker 2:But it's in the works, I like it. I like it, yeah, so we're it's definitely. We're trying to make moves in that direction.
Speaker 1:I love it, I love this, I love what you're doing. Thank you, it really is it really is.
Speaker 2:It has been incredibly fulfilling, I gotta say, and going back to the mental health component and giving people something to look forward to when they come off the tour. You know, I mean not to be grim, but there are hundreds of animals every week that are being euthanized in shelters in central California. And just because there's a lot of overpopulation, for a variety of reasons, a lot of the shelters, particularly in central California, the Highway 99 corridor south of Sacramento, all the way down to Lake Bakersfield and Lancaster a lot of their shelters are just so overcrowded and they don't have the personnel, they don't have the budget, they just don't have the resources to take care of the incredible inundation of just the animals that are flooding in constantly. And so when you have a van, as hectic and crazy as it gets and believe me, it gets hectic and crazy when you have crates in a van and you have 18 dogs at a time- I can't.
Speaker 1:Imagine. I've transported my cats back and forth from Oregon, and that was bad enough.
Speaker 2:That's a handful unto itself and then yeah, and so it can be a wild and long day, but when you know that I've had days where I've had 18 animals in my 15 passenger van, with all the seats taken out, and I've had 18 animals all in their individual crates in there, and every single one of those 18 animals was going to die that weekend, every one of them was scheduled for euthanasia, and so they were the ones that were urgent. They were the ones that all of these different organizations throughout Oregon and Washington said we are not going to let those particular dogs die Like, if you can get them to us, we will take care of their vet needs, we will take care of everything and we will find these dogs a good home, Wow, and cats too, and cats in some cases.
Speaker 2:So when you do something like that and it's the end of a again, like you started your day at 8 am and you're wrapping it up and you're getting to your hotel room at like midnight up in Tacoma or Portland or wherever, but you know that every one of those animals is alive because those organizations were able to step up and throw you some gas money and you volunteered your time and you put in that day, it's incredibly fulfilling.
Speaker 2:And so for people to again to come home from a tour expecting that really bad crash that happens afterwards, because they're now separated from their tour family and they're having anxiety about being home and everything. That's an incredible thing to look forward to. Even if you knew you were coming home for five weeks and you just had one or two things like one or two days, like that, emotionally, what that would do for a person would be it would really really help them, you know, like lift their spirits.
Speaker 1:So the benefit for the roadies in the music industry and the dogs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah. I mean the animals definitely need this, so tell me what.
Speaker 1:so how can people help you? I?
Speaker 2:know there's a.
Speaker 1:GoFundMe page.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we do have a GoFundMe that we've. We've kept that campaign going because we just continually get a trickle of people who just keep donating to it which is great.
Speaker 2:So those donations are always helpful and of course we do like PayPal and Venmo and things like that. But I mean really right now, the biggest help is just sharing our like, following us on Facebook and Instagram, reposting or sharing our stuff just to kind of get the word out there. Perfect, because we're still just trying to get the word out to as many people as we can and inevitably, the more that the word gets out there, the more that people they really like love the story and they love what we're doing, and so the donations end up kind of coming through the shares. But I would also say that if people were interested in getting directly involved, but again, if they don't necessarily have concert industry experience and they're not like our demographic of people that we're trying to benefit, correct.
Speaker 1:But then there's other places that they can go. There's a lot of other places they can go and I hope somebody says wow, I didn't know that, because that's one takeaway from this conversation that non music industry people, you can go somewhere else and do this. There is a huge need for this. There is, and I would in terms of roadies and rescues. You know, I know that you know obviously a lot of people in the music industry that might be really didn't know about this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and now go wow, yeah, I didn't know that I want to get involved, yeah, and for people that are not in the concert industry who want to get involved, I would say that, even more than donations and money, the best way you can help your local organizations, the I would say, the linchpin of it all, the thing that holds it all together, is fostering. That is the most important thing to do. If you have housing, if you have housing and you can pass, then they don't do like necessarily a background check like a criminal background check, but they'll want to do home inspections to make sure you make sure that you have a proper fence.
Speaker 2:Yes, the dogs not going to run away. Yes, you know there's a lot you'll have to fill out like long questionnaires and be interviewed and everything. But being a foster is probably the most vital, more than donating money to anybody If you're available and you can be a foster because every time you can foster an animal long enough for it to get its vet care taken care of, get its photos taken, put up on the website and all of those things that they need to do so they can start fielding applications for those particular animals. If you can foster a dog or a cat or any other shelter animal and have it for maybe a few months, just long enough for it to get adopted into its permanent home Perfect yes.
Speaker 2:And then you can go and foster another one. Perfect, the fostering is by far the greatest need that anyone has in the rescue community.
Speaker 1:That's the that's good to know. Yeah, again, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And you can see listeners or hear listeners. There is a process. I didn't know that this whole process was even in place in terms of fostering all of those things and how each part of that process is an important role.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can volunteer your time to go, help walk and socialize the animals. You can help volunteer your time to clean up the kennels. You can donate money, you can do fostering, of course, if you find an animal that you love and you want to adopt it, that of course is great as well. That's always. The goal is to find good homes for all of them. Yeah, there's myriad ways that you can get involved and help, for sure, perfect.
Speaker 1:Perfect, thank you. Thank you so much, paul, not only for just this conversation today and trying to find a place for this conversation today, which, by the way, listeners, we were all over the place because it was raining and what have you. But thank you so much for the work that you do for all the animals. Oh yeah, we're all the animals. It's been the opportunity to talk about it.
Speaker 2:It's been incredibly fulfilling and, yeah, if I hadn't sort of lucked my way into doing this during the pandemic, it would have been a much emotionally, it would have been a much darker time for me Right. It would have, I just. But having all of this work to look forward to while I was unemployed and waiting for concerts to come back, it's been incredible. It's funny because I tell people all the time that five or six years ago, if you had told me that this is the path, my life would be on, I would have been.
Speaker 2:I would not have shut the idea down, but I would have been very highly skeptical and now that I am doing this, I can't imagine not doing it. Awesome. So even with the obstacles that we've had of like how the concert industry is just so overloaded right now and it's been hard to find the help from the roadies that we want to get it hasn't deterred me because I just I can't imagine my life without this. Now, like this is just like this is okay for the rest of my life. This is what I'm going to be doing in some capacity, or other I'm going to be involved in this.
Speaker 1:So, listeners, you can go to the roadies and rescues Facebook site. Please do that. You'll be up to date on all current information and the GoFundMe site and I'll have links to those on my website so you can just click and go. So thank you again. Yeah, thank you. We'll talk soon.
Speaker 2:Awesome Thanks.
Speaker 1:I want to end this episode with kind of a reflection on our bond with dogs. I had talked to a friend of mine, david Jackson from Conservation Ambassadors, many years ago about what his favorite animal was and this is a man that works with all kinds of animals doing educational outreach and his response was dogs. And at the time it was like wow. It kind of shocked me, especially when you know he's standing next to a tiger or bald eagle. I was like wow. But over the years it has made perfect sense to me and I think probably it's the same bond and passion that drives Paul as well. I asked him again recently about this and I'd like to end this wonderful episode with his response.
Speaker 3:I get asked all the time all these amazing animals, they have lions and tigers and alligators and puppies and everything. What's your favorite animal? And I always say my dog, because dogs are amazing. I mean it's 40 to 60,000 years of man's best friend. I mean they chose us. The latest research shows that dogs actually chose us. We didn't choose them. They decided to come to our camps and hang out with us and that's in my honest relationship and I can be at home with my dog and I can turn my back on it. I mean I love all of my wild friends and they're wonderful to work with. I have great relationships. I mean lifetime, multi-decade relationships with a lot of amazing animals, but unfortunately dogs don't live that long Boy, for the time that they're here. They are by far the greatest animal on the planet to have next to you and I wouldn't trade them for anything.