Two Chicks and a Hoe
We’re gonna dig deep into some really amazing people and topics — cultivating ideas about nature, the environment and conservation — in your backyard and globally. We want to share stories with you where the only intention may be for you to say,“Wow, I didn’t know that!”…and now that you do, maybe you might think about your relationship with it differently, share the information with a friend or get involved.
Two Chicks and a Hoe
Whale Sex… and What’s Really Happening Under the Waves
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“Whale sex” might be what gets people’s attention… but this episode goes a whole lot deeper than that.
We recorded this one from San Ignacio Lagoon in Baja California—wind whipping, sand everywhere, and gray whales moving through the water just offshore. It’s one of the most important gray whale nurseries in the world, and you can feel that the second you arrive. There’s something about this place that slows you down and makes you pay attention.
We sat down with marine biologist Minerva Valerio Conchas to talk about what’s really happening out there. We get into gray whale migration—one of the longest on the planet—from feeding grounds near Alaska down to the warm lagoons of Baja, and why this specific place matters so much for mothers and calves.
And yes… we talk about mating. The real version. From “sandwich mating” and large mating groups to sperm competition and what scientists think females might actually be selecting for. It’s fascinating, a little surprising, and not something most people ever hear explained this honestly.
But the conversation shifts too. We talk about the bond between mothers and calves, how nursing works underwater, the physical toll on mothers, and what it takes for a baby whale to survive that long journey north—where orcas are waiting, and survival is not guaranteed.
We also zoom out to the bigger picture—climate change in the Arctic, shrinking sea ice, and what that means for the gray whales’ food supply. And we touch on the powerful local story of how this lagoon was protected from industrial development, and why it still feels… intact.
This one is part science, part lived experience, and part just sitting in awe of something bigger than us.
If you’ve ever wondered what’s really going on beneath the surface—or just need a reminder of how incredible this world still is—this episode is for you.
The recording of the Gray Whale "knocking" sound was provided by the Gray Whale Research in Mexico program, a project of The Ocean Foundation.
Baja Expeditions
Interview with Minerva Valerio Conchas,
Marine Biologist and Naturalist Guide
Things that make you say "Wow"!
For more episodes and additional information visit the Two Chicks and a Hoe website and our Facebook page.
Big thanks to our Producer, Casey Kennedy.
Welcome To San Ignacio Lagoon
SPEAKER_05Hey everybody, welcome back to Two Chicks in a Ho, the podcast that makes you say, Wow, I didn't know that. Whale sex. Yep. Those words and your curiosity brought you here. And I hope you stay for the awe, the science, and the wonder of the whales. Today's episode comes to you from one of the most magical places I've ever set foot, San Ignacio Lagoon on the Pacific side of Baja, California. A place where the desert meets the sea, where the landscape feels really ancient and raw. We were there to experience the harsh beauty of the desert, the power of the natural world, and to enter the sacred breeding grounds of the gray whale. Every day we climbed into small boats and journeyed out into the lagoon, scanning the water, waiting, wondering, would today be the day, would today be the day that a gray whale approached close enough that we could touch it. And yes, we had several breathtaking encounters, but we didn't have that famous direct contact that these whales are known for. And you know what? It didn't matter. The experience absolutely rocked my soul. I went with a few friends and ended up in a group of eleven. Strangers at first, family by the end. The kind of connection that happens when you're fully present, a little salty, sun-soaked, and open for wonder. A few of them, okay, five, five of them even joined us as honorary guest chicks for this conversation. And yes, we will be talking about whale sex. When you have a marine biologist and a naturalist guide who's willing to indulge all of your questions, it becomes a very popular topic of conversation. But we're also diving into so much more: migration, mating, the mother calf bond, communication, conservation, and why San Ignacio Lagoon is one of the most important gray whale nurseries on the planet. Our guest today is Minerva Valerio Conchas, a marine biologist working with the expedition company that guided us through this extraordinary place. Minerva was our guide on the water, patiently answering all our endless questions and helping us understand what we were witnessing and explaining what was happening underneath the waves. You may notice the whale sounds layered beneath this introduction. The initial knocking sounds are gray whales recorded in San Ignacio Lagoon. The more familiar, haunting songs that follow are from humpback whales. I included the humpback whale song because that's the sound most of us recognize when we think of whales. You can see they're they're very different. One thing you'll definitely hear throughout this episode is the wind. And it's not just a breeze. The wind in San Ignacio is powerful. It's relentless. It has it's alive. It's it's huge. We recorded this conversation on site inside these beautiful canvas tents that the wind whipped around so fiercely at times, I honestly thought the whole thing was just gonna fly away. I think, you know, like Dorothy's house and the wizard of Oz. So you'll hear it in the background. But please settle in, let the desert speak, let the wind howl, and let the whales do the rest. Not only are we talking about actually, okay, we're gonna supersize two chicks in a hoe. We're not only talking about one of the largest mammals in the world, but we also, instead of two chicks, we've gone up to five chicks today. All right. So we have five chicks in a hoe, and our honored guest, Minerva, to talk about the gray whales at San Ignacio Lagoon and beyond. So let's start with a little bit of just a little bit of history or kind of a little bit of information on where are we and and who lives out here in the water.
SPEAKER_04Well, San Ignacio Lagoon, uh for me, it's one of the most amazing places in the world, in Mexico principally. I fell in love the first time that I came to this lagoon as a student, and in that moment I said I wanna be back here, but as a researcher, and I did it, and I since then I still coming back seven years straight and I love it. Uh San Ignacio Lagoon is one of the first sanctuaries of Great Wales in Mexico with Guerrero Negro. But San Ignacio Lagoon has something special that I don't know, every time that you are here, you fell in love with the lagoon. Uh it's a special place, also everything is uh made locally. Uh the people here in the lagoon, once you meet them and get to know them and talk to them, you know that the people here love their lagoon. And it's a love that you you can spread and share with the others.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I I think we could all attest to that. Go greed? Yes. Yes. So um just a little bit of background, listeners, that uh the group, five of the chicks that are here, and there's more, and there's a couple dudes as well that are in our group. We all met down uh about eight days ago in the Cabo San Lucas area in Baja Sur, California, with Baja, Mexico. Um and we came here to have an experience with whale sharks down in La Paz, sea lions. Um what else did we do?
SPEAKER_00Humpbacks and cabo.
Gray Whale Populations And Migration
SPEAKER_05Humpbacks and cabo. And then we came up to this very, very magical place and uh have had several days now uh with exploring the the lagoon, looking for gray whales and having our own encounters with the gray whales. So this is really, really, truly is a magical place. Um we also learned, so I mean, a lot of the stuff too that we learned over the last few days we're gonna talk about today, but um you talked about the populations. So tell me, tell us where gray whales exist in the world.
SPEAKER_04Okay, the gray whales, uh, there are two populations. The one that is in San Ignacio and in the three lagoons around the peninsula of Baja California is the eastern North Pacific. This one lives in the northern uh seas, in the Bering Seas, close to Alaska, and there is their feeding grounds. They go there during the summer and feed, and when they are really really in a good shape and they feel good, they start the huge migration here to the to the lagoons in Mexico, and it's amazing because uh maybe you'd uh find out, but maybe you don't. But these are their pretty lagoons. That means that part of the breeding is that they born here, so these whales are Mexican actually, and it's amazing, uh, because it's a huge animal that lives and born here, and it's it's so magical for us. Uh, there's another population in in Russia, close to Russia and Japan, that the eastern North Pacific, and some of the animals there migrate here, but not a lot of them, but we have a few of them coming here also.
SPEAKER_05It's a small population, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04It's a very small population there, uh compared compared to this one. But also it's amazing. Uh, the animals that migrate here, well, I mean, they do a big journey coming from Russia and Japan to crossing the Pacific, or some of them cross, some of them just go around close to the coast. But I mean, it's a huge, huge trouble to come here, and the fact that the whales love these lagoons, it's it's so interesting for for the people and for for us, the the marine biologists, and especially for me.
SPEAKER_01Awesome.
SPEAKER_03So whenever you say that that they feed up there, how do they how do they not feed in this area or are they feeding in this area as well?
SPEAKER_04Years ago, uh that type of behavior, the feeding behavior, wasn't seen here. Uh, but in the last couple of years, we have seen them feeding here. Uh that doesn't mean that they're having uh a good type of food because their principal uh food uh is in Alaska in the Bering Season. But here you can take it uh as a snack. Uh yeah, uh a little something in the midway in the meantime, yeah.
SPEAKER_05So they actually when they get to the lagoon, they they don't hardly eat.
SPEAKER_04Uh hardly, uh, but I mean uh personally for me they have to feed and eat something because I mean if you're a uh female and you are pregnant and you are traveling here and and also you've been pursued by the orcas, by the males, uh I mean you have to stop in one moment to to have something to rest uh in compared to the to the bears, the birds hibernate. But the bears they're not moving, they're always sleeping. Also their their heartbreak is very low. They have one heartbreak per minute, also. So I don't know. Uh I think personally talking, I think that kind of information needs to be uploaded. Yeah.
Feeding On The Move
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Excellent. So hey, hey listeners, by the way, I I want you to know. So I uh we're in a tent at the lagoon, um and what you're hearing is the wind whipping around. And uh it seems to, at least my experience, it seems to get progressively windier as we uh the nighttime comes. So what you're hearing is the flapping of the tent. So um so that's what it is. That was the quietest spot that we could find. So that's part of the experience here at the lagoon. So why while we're talking about what you just said about their migration here, the the moms and coming to eat and everything, um the importance of the lagoon itself. We all understand that the the whales, male and female, migrate to the lagoon. Okay, let's let's just get into it, you guys, because we had lots of conversations on the boats throughout the the last few days. I think it was probably the biggest, most exciting conversations is of course we want to know about whale sex. And so they're they're I know so they're coming here and they're breeding, right? Yeah, this is their main breeding ground?
SPEAKER_04It's one of the of the main breedings. Uh uh, there's another two lagoons, uh Guerreo Negro, which is in the north of the peninsula, then the mid one is Laguna San Ignacio, and then the southern one is Magdalena Bay. But in Magdalena Bay, the behaviors are kind of different because there's more uh single whales there, but also well, the lagona is bigger, so it's it's different a little. Here we can see the all the different behaviors in Lagona San Ignacio, that's why for me it's very interesting. Because with all the years that I've been here, I've learned that every whale is a unique individual. Every whale has their their personality, every whale has their different behavior and in the sex. It's also different here from this the mating behavior that I've been seeing in Magdalena. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Okay, so there's swingers here, but they're not in Magdalena Bay, is what you're saying. They're sing that's a single bay, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, in Magdalena, there's swingers too, but no, they don't get together as here. I mean, the amount of swingers that I've been here, it's a lot compared to the Magdalena Bay. They have groups, but the biggest group that I've seen is here in San Ignacio. That's the record. So can you tell us what that was? Uh, it was a group that started with uh three whales and it finished with 34.
SPEAKER_05Okay, wow, wait a minute. What are we talking about here? So you say a group that started with three whales. Well, we're talking uh uh they're having sex, right? Yeah, they're having sex. Okay.
SPEAKER_03There was this term used called sandwich uh sandwich mating.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, this can you describe that for us? Yeah, sure. Uh well basically it's uh in humans kind of like a three-way. Yeah. Right. Because uh they need three whales to mate. The first one that is one that carries all the weight, it's on the bottom. The second one that usually is a female, and I said usually, it's because in any type of animal uh it's normal also to see uh mating only with males. Uh, we have seen that also in the gray whales, in another whales, it's normal. Uh but if it's not only males, usually it goes uh in the bottom, a male, in the mid uh part, it's the female that is showing the belly up, uh, and then the next male, the last one goes on top.
SPEAKER_05So she actually flips over. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, the one on the on the bottom is the one that carries the weights, the weight of the female, so the other men can go, the male, the other male, sorry, can go on top. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And do they switch then?
Mating Grounds And Group Behavior
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they switch, and then if another will uh saw that and just got a little excited, I can join and take turns.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Wow. How many mates do they have at any given time? They can have a lot.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they have time for a lot of men until the female gets tired. Uh but a number, no, they can have five, six, seven in just one group. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then all that sperm is in there. So tell us how what she does with all that sperm.
SPEAKER_04Uh the theory is that the female can choose the sperm of the best, uh of the best male whale. So it's something that uh is called like uh spermatic competition. So the best sperm is the one that wins. That's another type of reproduction. Uh it happens on some sharks, in also some uh reptiles, yeah. It's something that happens. Uh sometimes also there's there's a study, sorry, uh in humans that uh there's couples that can have babies, but it's not because of the men or the female are um infertile, no, it's because their DNA is not compatible, it's something kind of like happened with the whales. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Wow, it's kind of like a natural selection process.
SPEAKER_04It doesn't have to be like with the RH uh in the in the blood. No, it's different in the DNA, it also happens. If the DNAs are not compatible, it's not gonna be a successful prediction.
SPEAKER_05Wow, wow. Well, come on, you guys, you're awfully quiet. We had so many sex questions on the boat, you guys, and now and now my chicks are quiet.
Sandwich Mating And Sperm Competition
SPEAKER_03So on that note, yeah, how we heard about dolphins and dolphins watching. Can you tell us a little bit about why that is? What's going on there?
SPEAKER_04Well, the dolphins are pretty unique mamas. I of the mammals, I think that's the closest one that kind of like the humans behavior. Uh I don't know, the dolphins can be really cute and can be and I have nothing against the dolphins. I find them amazing because of that, but they can be cute and also they can be jerks, and they can be pretty funny. Uh, and they like to watch the I mean there's proof that they are the one of the animals that they just have sex because they want to, not because they have to. Normally, uh, not for reproduction. Yeah. Oh Normally, uh an animal when it's in a reproductive stage or in a mating season, it's because they have to have descendants. Uh, it's something naturally uh an animal needs to find a way to survive and to have their and have live their DNA in the world. Uh, and that's why reproduce. But in the dolphins, they do it because they want to. Yeah. So uh here the dolphins inside the lagoon is a resident population. They live all the year round here. Some of them uh go out to Puntabreojos, which is a bay outside of in the Pacific side, um up to the north uh from the from the lagoon, but uh it's not too much the exchange between those dolphins and and the dolphins inside the lagoon. But the ones here, I think, I don't know, maybe it's because they don't know too much about the world and they live only in this lagoon. But when the whales are here, they like to watch also or also they like to be in between the group. Uh even that it's dangerous for them because I mean the whales are huge and the dolphins, they're huge too, but not like the size of a whale, but they like to see, and they just staring at the question.
SPEAKER_03That is amazing.
SPEAKER_02How long does it take a female to become sexually mature?
SPEAKER_04Nine years, between eight to nine years is when we consider that they are sexually mature, and when they are sexually mature is when we consider them as an adult. And how about males? The same. Same, yeah. Okay. Yeah, that happens because well, when you study animals, especially the ones in the ocean, you it's very hard to study them when they're alive. So you have you can only have samples when they're dead. So in the well, in the whales, uh when we have studies, uh, when we did studies, uh usually it's with the dead whale. So when we well do necropsies and take samples of the uterus and all the genitals, um the the all the data says that between eight to nine years.
SPEAKER_03And how about the men? How long how long do how long do the men and women reproduce? How long how old are they when they stop reproducing?
SPEAKER_05Oh, the male? Yeah, yeah, the the females. Did they go, yeah, and males, you're right. Do they go do the females go through menopause? What we would can they're a mammal.
SPEAKER_04I mean, yeah, it's a mammal, it has to. Right. But it's different than the than the humans, obviously. First, because they live in the ocean. They don't uh they have to survive and they're adapted to live in the ocean. Uh for example, they don't have like this uh up and down heat like the women in in humans know. Uh because the whales are always losing teeth. Because why? Because they live in the water, so that's a lot of energy. Yeah, they probably uh have menopause, but in a different way. Probably they just it's something that their system knows, they just stop having babies, and that's all. But that doesn't mean that they're not participating in the mating groups, I mean they're just not having babies anymore, but they can still have sex. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Look look I want to go back to the mating group thing where you said you saw a a group of 34. Was that one female and all the rest were males? Or were there fee other females in there too?
SPEAKER_04No, it can be other females, other males, and not necessarily one female, it can be a lot of them.
Dolphins Watching And Mating Motives
SPEAKER_05That's fine.
Maturity And Whale Menopause
SPEAKER_04It can be a lot of them, so yeah. It tells me it doesn't matter. Have you ever seen gay whales? Yeah, sure. study uh of a few the last year went out uh came out sorry uh it's uh two whales in hawaii two humbacks and they were doing all the mating behavior they were doing all the splurry and all the singing and everything and but they were males and also there's a video about it and they they put their pinky out or the penis out but they were male yeah they were only two so jenna so jenna's one of our guest checks you guys and jenna of course is uh a good friend and also has spent many many years training animals being around wildlife uh and animal behaviorists that's not an uncommon thing is it having homosexuality in animals no not at all not uncommon because it's also a way for other males in many other species to exert dominance over other male groups too ah so there there's several biological reasons males to do that got it now Minerva you also we've been talking about babies and whales and sex now now a mother comes here to have her baby tell us what happens next she has her baby what now she has the baby and now she has to make that baby to ready to survive so she in the next four months here in the lagoon uh she's nursing the baby she gives only feeds the baby with milk uh and oh I think I didn't tell you how the moms give the milk yeah tell us that it's an interesting uh thing so the moms in the whales uh they push out the milk uh and the milk has a different density of the salt water of the ocean water so it's like a bubble floating in the water and the baby just goes and swallows the milk. Wow yeah yeah because they don't have lips like us to suck the make the milk from the nipple right so that's the other way that the evolution makes them to nurse the baby. Wow and only the babies drink that milk uh yeah only the baby yeah so the next four months here the mom is nursing the baby teaching him how to swim and also the baby's learning some behavior from the mom uh that uh if the a boat is uh safe for him uh with what other girl uh whales he can also approach because well sometimes the males can be a little aggressive with the babies but not the aggressive type to well they don't want to hurt the baby it's just a normal thing that happens in the in the animal kingdom I mean I need to reproduce so if you have a baby sorry I need to get rid of the baby right and that's something normal here also how much weight does the mom lose when she's nursing uh closely to the uh 55% of the wow of the body weight of the mom goes to the baby but that's a good thing uh when a mom is we felt that the one that we saw in the morning uh and by the end of the season if she's not a little uh skinny that means that she's not healthy and the baby is not gonna be healthy for handle the journey back to to Alaska so it's a good um bioindicator that the mom is not in a good shape and if the mom loses weight and the baby gets bigger that baby is gonna make it to to the to Alaska and probably on the way back to okay so okay so let me repeat this so I understand it not not everybody else so I understand it we have four months in the lagoon with the baby then they head out to the Pacific yeah then what where are they going? They're going back to the Bering Seas they travel close to the coast because of the baby the baby cannot go really deep so she has to be close to the shore uh and then it's the next uh challenge in the migration oh he has to survive but not like only to the ocean because the ocean is can be very tough no there's a lot of orca pots waiting for them on their way back yeah so wait on their way up yeah their orcas are waiting for them because babies are easy kill also for them yeah but also because the moms are very slow when they have the cow because the cows cannot swim really fast to slow down for the baby. So that makes them more vulnerable to the orcas.
SPEAKER_05I wanted to share one additional piece that didn't come up in our conversation with Minerva. On one of the excursions we learned that when orcas take a gray whale calf they often go straight for the tongue and the fattiest tissues first. It sounds it sounds harsh I know but it's survival for them too orcas are apex predators they're highly intelligent and incredibly strategic hunters and when they hunt sharks they've been documented to just remove the liver so but they're not villains of the sea they're masters of it.
SPEAKER_03What percentage of moms and babies make it back all the way to Alaska or other parts?
SPEAKER_04Close to 35% only 35% yeah it's a low number but I mean it's it's tough out there. Yeah the the orca bugs that usually weigh them uh during the migration back in the way back are pots close to well over 60 orcas. Wow they're huge butts and they're fighting against well one mom and a cow and the mom has to be worried for the baby and also for her so it's hard. But oh that's horrible that's tough.
SPEAKER_05Yeah that's another sad yeah yeah it's sad but that's another interesting behavior because I saw an article on a paper a few weeks ago that said that the hombacks are are helping to the gray wolves on the way back they're defending them from the orc really yeah wow yeah the the humbugs are showing a new type of behavior that is like empathy for these other animals they're helping them against the orcus why don't all the whales go together as a pod so they can fight against the orc I like that yeah that makes that makes sense I mean it's a probability maybe it's a reason but which one is true uh I I don't know I can be sure wow do whales breed whales uh I mean personally I haven't seen uh a grief uh that's a behavior that we have seen in dolphins in orchid the bottleneuse a different species of dolphins but in the whales no I saw once here a mom uh well she lost the baby here and it was sad for me but in 40 days the mom was ready again to have a baby so she was again ready to to mate so uh I don't think so wow yeah wow so do you do they ever see on the migration north or south do they ever see like Suzanne was saying the idea that that they group together but not just group gray whales together do you ever do they ever see gray whales and humpbacks migrate together not just you know I said you were saying about the the humpbacks kind of helping to protect but do they actually migrate together um I mean it's not like they're waiting for the other like hi come on yeah we're going together yeah waiting for you Stacy no it's it's not like that but the humbacks and the grey whales share uh migration paths so that's why sometimes we can see them swimming together and driving by together but not because they're uh weighing the other uh this behavior of the humbacks helping the grey whales is a new thing it's not like really really studied but it's something that we have noticed so I mean probably in the last years well in the last year uh there's some hombags that actually are waiting for the grey wolves to for help them but wow wow okay so they're migrating all the way up to Alaska to the Bering Sea yes and and and then what's what's up there? Why why go there?
SPEAKER_04Because there's where the food is so in the Bering Seas there's a specific type of of food for the gray wolves they feed from a tiny kind of shrimp shaped thing it's microscopic uh it's called facets and mycetation oh and that's the thing that the grain wolves eat and this tiny animal grows in the Arctic in the in the varinesis and it grows with the when the layer of ice is thick enough. Oh yeah because in this layer of ice there's a specific also type of algae that grows and when the algae is mature enough uh it goes to the bottom of the seafloor and then in the seafloor this facets and mycedaceous eat the algae and they grow and when they are mature and with sufficient nutrients is when the greenwells are ready to to fit. The thing right now is that with the global warming and the pollution and contamination uh this layer of ice is every every year less and also thinner so there's not enough space for the green wheels to fit.
SPEAKER_05Oh yes oh so it's affecting everything up there then yeah it's a chain at the end of the day everything is connected so so when they get up there and they're feeding do they ever cross over this is I want to know did they ever cross over to the other population in Russia and Japan area? Is there crossover?
Calves, Milk, And Motherhood
SPEAKER_04Yeah sure okay crossover okay uh even oh there's some moms Russian moms that we have here in the lagoon they come to visit us every two or three years they have the baby here also uh the thing that we don't know if the father of the baby is from here or from from Russia I think there's one that we saw once mating with those from here. So probably the baby of that whale is is with the population here. At the end everything is a possibility um statistically speaking so yeah yeah and do they mate with the same whales year after year um talking about numbers yeah but once you do the statistics and see the how big is the lagoon the amount of whales that come here and also the behavior because we know that every whale has a diff spend different their time in the like in the lagoons there's whales that stay always in during the whole winter here in San Ignacio but there's whales that arrive one day and in the next hour they just go to another lagoon and then stay one day there and then go to another like lagoon so um that number of varies uh yeah varies a lot all right so we're up in the Bering Sea we're feeding yeah what's the time frame how long do they stay and is the baby with the mom the whole time up up there yeah the baby is at least uh the whole year with the mom uh once the mom comes back to the to the feeding grounds well she's teaching the last uh things that the baby needs to learn to be alone and by himself so yeah the mom is here during the the winter nursing the baby then goes back to to the feeding grounds uh she there teaches the baby how to feed not from her anymore right she stopped uh nursing the baby so there now the baby is feeding from the bottom and then on the way back the next year uh is when the midway uh or maybe before the starting the journey is when the mom says goodbye to the baby. Wow wow and then they separated or were they um there's no uh um prove uh a video how that happened that that's actually something that I want to uh do as a research I want to see I hope in a few years I had the opportunity to to research about that to see I want to see the moment how happened and and what's happening in that moment when the mom says to the baby okay now see you wow it's a curious yeah do they recognize each other if they see each other like four or five years later will the mom recognize the baby or the the child or juvenile at that point? I don't know I don't think so I've seen whales here that they look like uh newborn because because there's their size is really small they look like a baby but once you're closer you can tell that no that's the first year that he's here alone so oh I don't think so and actually those uh young young babies uh is uh here in Mexico we call them anneros which means that uh or yearly that's mean that it's they have one year only of so now they're also trying to be close to other whales and you can tell that they're learning what they're the older uh are doing so to the wait to the baby to the how what are an do they pack together no they they don't they're all on their own yeah huh yeah okay I guess none of us want to know that we all want we think they want to be together we they would smell the pheromones of their mom and know it know that permanently in their brain when they smell it again maybe five or six years later.
Orcas Hunt And Survival Rates
SPEAKER_00Well I I don't uh I mean it's different than the marine mammals uh because also their uh I mean the nose and the mammals is not like it's very developed it's it evolutions to the point that they can live in the ocean but also breathe air but they cannot smell like the humans it's different uh because oh they have to use the other their other sense so the skin it's a very developed uh sense in the whales I mean obviously they're they have pheromones and hormones because at at the end they're mammals but it's different so that's another mystery of the whales yeah so statistically saying then yeah so inquiring minds are wondering I'm sure out there then yeah now this boy comes back nine years later he's ready to rock at you know at the frat house and sees this cute older girl at the swingers club you know at the swingers club could that be his mom could it not be his mom does he care yeah statistically speaking on in numbers yeah it happens but that's the real thing uh it's history to today yeah wow wow interesting oh no I love this I love it very interesting wow so the lagoon itself we know is a protected area yeah and you you told us a story today that I I I'd like to know I mean so it's a protected area we know about whaling and and everything the devastation that that has caused but what what I mean there's people that live around here what was the story about the beginning so to speak of the connection between people and the gray whales well this story is about a fisherman uh his name is pachico pachico used to be a uh captain and a fisherman here but uh the people here used to also be afraid of the whales first because of the color of the whales I mean some of them are very dark and they sometimes confuse the rain whales with the orcas because they're very dark and they can look very dark in the underwater and they're big so the the people here used to be afraid of the of the whales but pachico uh says one said that one time he was fishing outside in the lagoon and he was uh getting back his his uh fishing line and he was recovering everything and at the end of his fishing day he saw a whale doing a spa spy hog and he got scared because he thought that the whale was about to kill him or thrown throwing away his boat uh but no he just don't move and just stared at the whale and he said that he just felt curious of touching the whale and he did it while the whale was doing the spy hop he touched the whale and he noticed that the whale didn't react didn't do anything uh and then the whale did a spy hop again and he touched her again and then he noticed that no these animals are not dangerous they're not doing anything and he told the story and another captain from here another fisherman started to do that and that's basically how the the whale watching activities start here but with this um new type of interaction of encounters of having the opportunity to touch a whale yeah when is the spy hoppers the spy hopping is when the whale it's in a vertical way on the water and she just uh flips the head uh up up out on the surface when she's just showing like the tip of the of the head yeah and and and I are they looking around they're looking are they looking for something or are they just kind of looking there's a lot of theories that will talk about the spy hubs uh some of them are that they want to see their surroundings but I mean the eye of the whale is developed for seeing underwater so why do they want to see out of the water?
SPEAKER_04But I mean also I like to think that they want to do it because they can and they want to. Oh that's true. And the other thing the other theory is that they're like showing off uh like in the case of the males uh to see to attract the female but I've seen them doing just one will alone so I don't know probably she just she just wants to and the other theory is that uh also is like a movement that they do because uh it's a combination of everything of the current of the tide of what are they doing in that moment how they are swimming and sometimes they do it and and I've seen this when they are swimming and they uh like hit with another well in front so it's like a when they stop suddenly it just lift up the head like oh my god yeah accident I didn't see yeah yeah head bump head bump yeah it's a head bump yeah so
SPEAKER_05So I I wanted to ask, you had mentioned something today, and I just want to touch on it briefly to let the listeners understand that this is such a magnificent area, and we're so grateful that it's protected. But you said about Mitsubishi wanting to come in. And yeah, and tell can you tell us a little bit about that? So I want people to understand, even though it's protected, there's a lot of other interests in the area that want to do other things with this.
SPEAKER_04Mm-hmm. Yeah, years ago, before the lagoon was uh the thing that is today a protected area, a reserve, uh Mitsubishi, which is this big uh car company, also they built a lot of engines and huge machines for different types of industries. Uh they wanted to put a salt mine in the lagoon, uh an extraction of salt. The thing is that all the leftovers from that destruction, like the heavy metals, the contaminants and the pollution, they wanted to throw them into the lagoon. So the people here said, Okay, yeah, you're gonna give me a job, but you're gonna kill my lagoon.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_04And the people here love what they do, they love fishing and they love their whales. So they said, no, no, thank you. Maybe you're gonna give me a job, but it doesn't work. So they make a lot of of talk. They talked to the government with anyone that wanted to hear, and yeah, uh they made it. They talked uh with one of the presidents of Mexico in that moment. I think it was Ernesto Sevillo. It was a president at the moment of Mexico, and they invited him to the lagoon, and actually, it's a letter that he wrote. Uh he said, no, you cannot touch this lagoon because when he came here, he went to a do and do a well watching, and he touched a whale with his family, and that's how he said, No, I'm with these people, and you're not gonna touch their lego. And how is that is what happened with this vision.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, love it. Wow. Wow, thank you. Thank you for this time. Um anything else, chicks?
SPEAKER_02What's your favorite thing about Brave Whales?
SPEAKER_04My favorite thing is I mean, since the first time that I see them, that I saw them, um I don't know, they they gave me like this peace and calm. Every time that I see them, I'm always in my center. I feel calm. And it doesn't matter if I don't touch her just by hearing them blowing, for me it's enough. And I love that I've seen this animal a lot of times, a lot of years, but every time that I see one, it's like I just forget how big they are and how resilient they are. And for me, they're always teaching me that you don't need nothing just to enjoy and and that's all. And for me, just by seeing them, that's my favorite thing and moments with the whales.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's beautiful.
SPEAKER_04Thank you.
SPEAKER_05I think we've kind of maybe all experienced a little bit of that in the last few days as well. Seeing that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_05So the the logo that the company uses.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Okay, and also, too, we were told that you know, when a whale exhales, there's this mist that comes out. But the gray whale has a particular, really different one, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's very different. It's a heart shape, the glow. And yeah, they have a lot of love to show us and give us. And I mean, I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I mean it's a heart shape. I think that's also they're and also they're here for breathing, and they're here, and also they don't fight for love, they just share it with other whales.
SPEAKER_05So it's the love lagoon.
SPEAKER_04Lovely, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I love it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Minerva, for your time, for everything that you do for the whales and for the wildlife here. And I want to thank our special chicks today. So we have Ashley and Azika. Azika from Alabama, and we have Devin from Texas, Suzanne from California, the Bay Area, and Jenna from Nevada. So wonderful five. Never had five guest checks. It was awesome. But thank you so much, Marva, for your time and thank you for everything that you do.
SPEAKER_04Thank you for having me. I was a little nervous, but that's the end. You made me feel so comfortable here.
Arctic Food Web And Climate Change
SPEAKER_05Thank you. There are some places that change you. Not because of what you see, but because of how they make you slow down. You listen differently, and you remember that you're part of something much bigger. Santa Ignacio Lagoon was that place for me. Maybe it was for all of us. The desert, the wind, the waiting, and the whales showing up on their terms. Huge thanks to Minerva for guiding us on the water, answering every single question we threw her away, including the ones about whale sex, and helping us understand what was happening beneath the surface, even when we couldn't see it. And to our accidental family, the group of 11 who showed up as strangers and left as friends, thank you for your laughter, the curiosity, and the shared awe. You made this experience. And one quick correction before we go. Earlier, I mispronounced one of our guest chicks' names. It's Azita, not Azika. Thank you for your grace, Azita. If this episode made you smile, think differently, or simply pause for a moment, share it with someone who could use a little wonder in their day. As always, thanks for listening to Two Chicks in a Ho, the podcast that makes you say, Wow, I didn't know that. Until next time, listen closely to the whales and take good care of each other.