Exceptional Parents, Extraordinary Challenges
Being a parent is challenging enough - parenting a child with extraordinary challenges (non-neuro typical kiddos) can be overwhelming, debilitating and at times, downright depressing. Angie Shockley and Dave Gold bring their combined 70 years of real world experience - Angie as the founder of young adult transition programs and Certified Shamanic Practitioner; Dave as a successful attorney, business and spiritual mentor and father - to bring you practical, powerful solutions to your biggest parenting challenges Join us each week to discover how to navigate crisis, protect your own health and well-being, and create a family unit that is filled with love, creativity and deep, mutual respect no matter what life brings your way.
Exceptional Parents, Extraordinary Challenges
The Dog Whisperer's Secret: It's Not About Training Dogs
Professional dog trainer Marsha Martin reveals that successful dog training actually depends on training the humans, not just the animals. By creating proper boundaries and understanding your dog's unique temperament, you can transform chaos into harmony in your home.
• Dog training is actually people training—it's about relationships, not just commands
• Setting boundaries with dogs parallels setting boundaries with children
• Many people focus too much on keeping their dog "happy" without proper structure
• Dog behavior problems often reflect issues in the household dynamics
• Understanding "the dog you have" versus the dog you imagined is crucial
• Consistency creates safety for both dogs and humans
• Most people choose dogs based on looks rather than temperament
• Creating peace at home requires understanding who's making the decisions
• Severe behavior problems sometimes cannot be resolved, requiring difficult choices
• Dogs can adapt to our lifestyle when given proper structure
Join Marsha's Facebook Live on March 23rd at 7pm Eastern to learn about keeping kids safe around dogs. Find her at Marsha's Best Dogs Connections group on Facebook.
Marcia Martin
Marcia@marciasbestdogs.net
336-202-dogs
At Canaan Valley Spa and Wellness Center, our mission is to provide our clients with a serene and rejuvenating experience that promotes wellness of the mind, body, and spirit. We strive to create a welcoming and peaceful environment where our guests can escape from the stresses of daily life and find relaxation and balance.
www.canaanvalleyspawv.com
https//www.livingmindfullyaware.com
Canaan Valley Spa is a true destination space in Davis, West Virginia.
www.canaanvalleyspawv.com
Angie Shockley mindfulangie@gmail.com
http://www.livingmindfullyaware.com
Dave Gold dave@davegold.com
Show Engineered and Produced by: Keith Bishop bishop.keith@gmail.com
Welcome everybody. Welcome to Exceptional Parents Extraordinary Challenges. We've been sort of out of pocket for a while and Dave Gold and I are here and happy to be back. Good to see you, Dave. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm glad to be here. I just want to tell everyone that before we got on here I got some of the best career psychic parenting advice you can get in 10 minutes. One of the side benefits, or fringe benefits of this is just having access to Angie and again just want to at the beginning just reiterate what a great resource she is for whatever's going on with your life.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, Dave. I appreciate that very much. It was like speed tracking speed, shamanic tracking really quick. And I would say the same about you Both of us. We're always here for anybody who needs to reach out, needs support in some kind of way. Dave and I are always here and happy to help and very excited today. Typically, those people who watch and listen to us regularly know that Dave and I usually surprise each other with a guest. This week is a little bit different, so I was not surprised. I've actually met our guest via Zoom through Dave before and Dave's been working with Marsha for some time, and I want to introduce Marsha Martin of Marsha's Best Dogs. Hi, Marsha, how are you?
Speaker 1:Hi, I'm glad to be here. Thank you, we're glad to have you, so why don't?
Speaker 3:we just start out by you sharing a little bit about what you do. Okay, I'm a dog trainer, or at least that's what people think that I train their dogs. But I believe that dog training is people training. So I'm going to people's house for them to understand what kind of dog they have. So they have to be able to participate. It's definitely they know it's not about the dog, it's a relationship and it's what I want to teach people to understand their dogs. I think they, I think we.
Speaker 3:It's very easy for us to just to blame the dog. The dog is doing all these bad things and I tell her wow, but your dog wouldn't be doing those things if he was living with me. It's just a part of what they realize. That it's just again. It's it's into interaction, it's between you and the dog, what kind of dog you have and can you understand your dog better so that you can have a better relationship with them to begin with. So I think we all want a good relationship, we want peace and quiet, we want harmony, but when they bring the issues with their dogs, they just blame the dog and I think it's unfair. It's very unfair because we participate in a lot of those problems that they have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's incredibly insightful, and the thing that just popped into my mind, dave, is she's talking about the unholy trinity with a dog. The unholy trinity is the drama triangle where you have a victim, a persecutor and a rescuer, and Dave and I have done a ton of podcast interviews and discussions around the triangle and everybody knows we work with it a lot and when you, what you're talking about doing is amazing. I have dogs. Everyone knows Dave's a huge dog lover and animals and all my horses and everything and they really are.
Speaker 1:It really is a relationship, and I do believe that there are a lot of similarities between the relationship that you have with animals and the relationship you have with your children, with your spouse, with your friends, other people in your family, and I think that when we are in a place of struggling because you said, bring the issues to the dog when we're bringing the issues to any relationship in our lives, we're going to turn it upside down. It's topsy-turvy, so I think that is a brilliant way to talk about it, and what I hear very strongly in there is that folks need a lot of work around boundaries. Is that something that you work with a lot?
Speaker 3:Yes, it is, oh, absolutely, I think, the biggest mistake that people do, and definitely if we're talking about puppies, right. So you bring the puppy to your house, all they give is play, love and the freedom all over the house and the dog is treated like a king, like catered all the time to whatever need he wants. He does whatever he wants when he feels like, until when it's not convenient for the people anymore, and then you have to go to work, and then you have to leave the puppy alone, and then you have to go to work, and then you have to leave the puppy alone, and then the dog doesn't know how to go party outside. So it really is just.
Speaker 3:Again, I tell my clients you gave Disney World. This is it. Everything is fun, it's great, they love it, no doubt about it, they are having a blast, but for them it's miserable, because at that point the dog cannot be crated and the dog just pees and poops everywhere and is stressed out because you leave the room and he doesn't know what to do. So, yes, it is just, it's very hard for people to think about boundaries because they think it's not a good thing, they think it is just oh, but he's going to be sad. That's exactly what I hear all the time. Oh, but he's going to be sad. That's exactly what I hear all the time. Oh, but he's not happy. Just make sure who's going to be happy here, because if the dog's always happy, you're going to have a miserable life with this dog because he's going to be doing whatever he wants.
Speaker 2:I want to interject here in turn because I'm going to pretend to be the interviewer and Angie the guest. Angie, when you hear all this about dogs?
Speaker 1:what do you think about in terms of what you do for, what you've done for 30 years and what you do for a living? It's so similar. It's so similar to family dynamics and family systems. But I have so many parents who have spent their lives trying to make sure their kids are happy all the time, and their biggest focus and their biggest desires for their child to be happy. Whether they're small, adolescent, adult, whatever, they want their kids to be happy. Whether they're small, adolescent, adult, whatever, they want their kids to be happy, which is no different than wanting the dog to be happy, and they don't want the kid to be sad and they don't want they don't want to deal with the conflict and they don't want to have those hard conversations and things. And then you and you said if your dog's happy all the time, then you're going to have a miserable life. The same is true about a child. If your child is happy all the time, then something is not clicking along in a more normal kind of way. So yeah, the similarities are very strong.
Speaker 2:You said something and I don't want it to be a throwaway line, but I think you said if something, if you want your kids to be happy all the time, you can have a miserable life. Am I misquoting or re-quoting? That's pretty close. Am I misquoting or re-quoting? That's pretty close. I don't want to bury the lead on that. I'd like both of you maybe to talk a little bit about maybe with you, angie, about what that means in people, and then, marcia, you could talk about what that means in dogs.
Speaker 1:I'll take the people one. When we do everything in our power to make sure that our child is happy all the time and we don't allow them to experience disappointment, we don't allow them to experience loneliness, we don't allow them to experience failure those kinds of things we are robbing them of the experience of being human. We're robbing them of having the opportunity to grow wisdom and to truly learn how to be resilient in life. And I've never been happy every day in my life. And nobody is going to be. That's just the way it is, and sometimes we have to go through hard things and sometimes we have to hold really firm boundaries with our kids, and if it makes them unhappy but it keeps them safe, then to me it is absolutely the right thing to do. I have a feeling that's very similar with the dogs. What do you think?
Speaker 3:Yes, it is, again, it is. I think it is just we. I think we want to be good to everybody, right, and definitely they look at this sweet, cute puppy face. Oh, my goodness, you want them to be just again. You want them to be happy. You want them to wag their tail and just greet you at the door. But sometimes this dog is again.
Speaker 3:You might get a dog that is such like afraid of life. There are so many skittish dogs, that is just. And people want to take them to a big festival and the dog is miserable. He just can't handle that much commotion. No wonder he's going to bite and growl because you just he's going to fail in that setting again and again.
Speaker 3:If you don't understand what kind of dog you have and I think that's the same thing you just need to you need to know what kind of dog you have. You need to be able to say no to your dog and to promote the good things that you want them to do. But it's a balance, always, just again. It's a balance in everything in life, right? We don't get rewarded for everything we do in our lives and if we do something wrong, we go to jail, right? That's what life is all about. Not everything can be achieved so easily. It takes a lot of work, it takes a lot of commitment and we have to be responsible, for they didn't ask us to be here, so it's my job to just to give them the best life they can have. But they have to live with me too. I'm not just again letting my dog come and destroy my couch. So that is. I need to be able to leave my house peacefully and know that it's just the dog's going to be peaceful, waiting for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, great points. And so similar. It really is parallel to family systems. It really is. So I want to ask a couple more questions specific to what you're doing. So explain to our audience when you get a call and client is reaching out to you, maybe explain how the process works.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah. So it takes me really like 30 to 45 minutes to get the whole history and it's a long time because I need to know when they got the dog. I need to even hear what they have to say about the dog. So, because it is just, sometimes the dog has a bad story and people are very attached to that bad story.
Speaker 3:So rescue dogs they really get a lot of breaks because that sad story keeps, like this happened nine years ago. This dog is not a rescue for a minute after that, but people are very attached to that sad story and and once I go there, it's okay. So, yes, the dog has those and I. It takes me 10 minutes to 20 minutes to size up everything the family, the environment, the window, the door where the dog is barking and whatever behavior the dog is doing. Usually the dog displays for 10 minutes. I can see everything. The dog is telling a story those first 10 minutes and then it's pretty much trying to put those pieces of the puzzles together. While I'm there in their home and in a few hours I say this is it and make them participate and I explain every situation and how to make it better. And once I leave, it's so.
Speaker 3:People just say do you want to live here? Over again they say it is so peaceful. It has never been this way. And as much as people say I'm a dog trainer, I think I'm just like I have to say that I'm a peacemaker, because that's what I want to be. I want to be in peace. You can have dogs, you can have multiple dogs. It doesn't have to be chaos. You can have a very good, good, just again, harmonious house with your animals and, but, I think, make an assumption that if you have a dog or if you have several animals, it's going to be chaos.
Speaker 3:It's an assumption, in my point of view, or if you have a puppy, that this puppy is going to be a puppy forever. It's an assumption? No, it's, it doesn't have to. It has some needs. I get it. I'm going to address those needs. But it's not because this dog is like a border collie mix. That is just. Oh, he's hyper. And then you have to hike with this dog for three hours and I've heard trainers saying that there was one trainer that says you're going to have to hike with this dog for three long hikes and take it to the lake to swim every day. Who? But three long hikes and take it to the lake to swim every day? Who has that lifestyle? It's just not realistic. Just again, we all go to work here, we all have to leave our dogs. That is a reality that our dogs have to adapt.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And if they don't adapt, it's just. Then it's the wrong match too, and I think people also get the wrong dog that does not fit their lifestyle, which is very hard, and then we have to do something about it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe I would be really curious to hear some examples, some stories, maybe just talking to our listeners about examples of situations you've walked into, maybe some really tough things that you've walked into with dogs, and what your thoughts are about that and how you help to resolve those issues.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that sometimes there's. So that is one of my clients, so that dog has already has. She has lived a very just, single, a very solitary life because of, again, this dog has not accepted many people in her house.
Speaker 3:It has bitten everybody in her family. I think it has really even bit her, like when she tries to go in the back of the car seat. The dog just went after her and I went to visit to just to figure out what to do. The dog was just, everything was a trigger. That is no, it was all over the place and I just make. I just told her that it's that, it's just, that is. We can't, we cannot save them all, period. So I told her it's just, it's, there is no way. I think she was going to bring her mom to live with her. That's what it was. And I says you have to choose. You can have your mom or you can have this dog. You can't have both. So we I went with her, we put the dog down because that dog was going to bite somebody at some point if it was exposed to anybody else.
Speaker 1:So that's a tough conversation to have and a tough journey to make, and I know from working in the world of animals for a long time that there are times that happens that there is no saving the animal, that the animal is dangerous and it doesn't matter what changes you make. Like you said, everything is a trigger and who knows what happened to cause all of that. But I think that's a very important point for our listeners to understand is there is a time that you have to say OK, we've tried everything and it's time. It's time for this to change, whatever that means.
Speaker 3:And I think that it was just like because I think people expecting a pill. You're going to come here, you're going to do your magic and my dog's going to be perfect. And what I say to my clients is like when bad people cannot live in society, they go to jail, they go to a mental hospital. Bad dogs, they don't have that. There's no way for them and we cannot just again put them in a place forever.
Speaker 3:There is no way for them to go. And I'm not. You're not going to be responsible enough to keep bouncing this dog again and again, and I think that it's just because I follow her on Facebook. So she got the most beautiful golden retriever, the dog of her dreams. She foster dogs all the time. Now she has a boyfriend. She has lived like the life that she has never could have never done because of the dog she had.
Speaker 3:And I can see the joy this dog brings to her. Now it is. But if she had kept that dog, that is no way she would have the lifestyle that she has. But if she had kept that dog, there is no way she would have the lifestyle that she has. So it changes everything. The dog that you have changes everything in your life. Who are your friends? Are you going to have kids? You're not going to have kids. It's very important to figure it out. Can this dog come and be part of your life? And I don't think that people think about that in really details. It's very emotional. I'm going to get a dog. Then the consequence is going to happen later.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dave, I want to speak to that. A couple of things. One is because it gets back to what you and Andrew were both talking about just setting boundaries and when you think, okay, I'll set them up to this point, but I'm not setting up to that point, and you're talking about setting the ultimate boundary. The ultimate boundary is that I cannot have this dog in my life and it's tough and it sounds harsh, but it's the most loving choice you can make for the whole ecosystem which I think is really important.
Speaker 2:And how many homes have you been, how many homes have you been in?
Speaker 3:I think I did. I added up probably like 8 000 homes, wow, not even counting multiple dogs. So if I can multiple dogs, you can probably put I don't know 12 000 dogs. I don't, I can. Yeah, I don't know. It's a lot. Yeah, and it's going from home to home too, because that is that's what I do. I drive all the way from the i-40 line from kernersville to to to wake forest, so it's such a North Carolina for our listeners.
Speaker 1:Yeah, North Carolina, my question. I'm sorry, Dave, did you have a question?
Speaker 2:I just wanted to make one other statement and I wanted to tell another story to kind of balance that one out, because that's a sad story. And why don't you tell the PAMP card? I love the PAMP story because that's the flip side.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So one of my clients, she just retired, and from the time she got the dog she kept asking me I'm going to get a dog, Can you help me find a dog? So she found a dog that she wanted and right away, like very quickly, she just gave me a phone call. I have a dog, I need you, can you come and help me? So I was a little bit suspicious because it was like she didn't plan a puppy but she did got a puppy.
Speaker 3:But this puppy was the dream dog, just the sweetest, eager to please, fun, to be around, like alone in a split, a second. That dog is so sweet. So the joy when we talk to Pam how much this dog has just enriched her life, her retirement life, takes this dog everywhere she wants to go and it is a joy. It brings her so much joy when you have the right dog with the right temperament that you take the time to walk with the dog too. Because right away, like in two weeks, I was there to make sure that the dog was doing a lot of play, biting, nipping and going crazy and it was just like it was getting out of hand. But she is just again. She's enjoying retirement with this beautiful, sweet dog that is social and just fun to be around and it's bringing her joy.
Speaker 2:I could just put a final point on that and also we'll put in the show notes, if we can about we have some of the testimonials from people on our YouTube channel and you'll get a different set of the kind of things that she's done. But she's 65 years old. I can say that because she says I can give her age because she does it on the video she says I'm too old to have a puppy.
Speaker 2:This is nuts, I can't have a puppy in my life. And marcia said yeah, yes, you can. You just gotta get the right puppy at the right time. And the way she does there's tears in her eyes saying about I never would have been able to imagine that I could have a puppy at 65. And she does, and it's the right. It's the right dog at the right time. So I just want to make it's not just like we got the right dog, it's that you performed a miracle that she didn't think she could have, because you matched the right temperament with the right training. Back to you, angie.
Speaker 1:So I guess my next question is how did you get into this line of work and how long have you been doing it?
Speaker 3:I've been doing it for probably 27, 28 years. It was completely by accident that I became a dog trainer. I have a degree in psychology from Brazil. I came from Brazil to the United States but I couldn't speak any English. I knew dog cat one to ten, chair and table. That was the extent of my English.
Speaker 3:Then A few things happened. That is just. I got a dog that one of my best friends had, a Border Collie. So I went to the shelter, got a border collie mix. She was kicked out of obedience school. She was terrible, terrible. So that was my first wake up call that I just again she was a nightmare. She was a skateboardist, she was a barker, she was overly friendly. But it's just again, just crazy. I went to the shop because I didn't. I was allowed to be here but I couldn't work. So I have to go find a job to work as a volunteer.
Speaker 3:So I went to the shelter, to Guilford County Animal Shelter, and I just spent my time there. I couldn't speak with the staff because I couldn't speak English. So they sent me to the dogs and I just I didn't like how they behave, period, like they're jumping, scratching me, they're crazy. And I realized that it's just, you know, I know a little bit of dog training. I can just figure it out again. I can read a book and figure out what to do. And dogs that have been at the shelter for three or four months I always got the ones that have been there the longest because I want to give them a break from the cage. Those dogs that I spent a whole week going over there and training, every single dog that I touched got adopted the following week. So it was just like so.
Speaker 3:At some point the shelter kept asking me what are you doing? And I says I don't like how they behave. So I just changed what they do. I want them to behave better, I want them to sit, I don't want them to jump, I don't want them to scratch. So it was really basic what I was doing, but it did improve their chances to get adopted. And then so at the same time, I was going to some seminars about dog training. I was reading books about dog training and after, when I got my work permit, the shelter hired me to do behavior evaluation in shelter dogs and that's what I specialized.
Speaker 3:At that point I was testing 125 dogs a month and making the decision Some dogs have to be put to sleep, some dogs have to go for adoption. But if we're going to send the dogs out there, we better send the best ones, the dogs. They are less likely to bite. So there was a lot of hands on dogs at that point and then I left the shelter and I've been doing in-home dog training forever for more than 25 years. But it was completed by accident too and I did make my dog to be the best dog ever, like she could go just again to places with me and she would go to Lowe's with me and everybody thought how wonderful she was. And she would go to Lowe's with me and everybody thought how wonderful she was, how friendly and how well behaved. So it was fun to have a dog that I could enjoy. But she was a handful too. So I have to say I have to work really hard to make her just the way that I want her to be.
Speaker 1:And I feel like your degree has never been wasted. I feel like your degree has been incredibly helpful in your career. That you claim was an accident. I believe you're working your passion. Yes, I am, I think it just. I think you probably didn't know what it was at the time, but everything it just seemed. The universe just opened up the path for you to really work your passion, and it's really incredible to know that you've done it for this long. And I know that you've been working with Dave and Dave's an incredible business coach and mentor, and so I know he's been talking to you a little bit because you wanting to change your business a bit. So would you maybe talk a little bit about this hybrid model that you guys are about to launch?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it is just because I have been going from home to home for so long, I realized that if I can help people, if I'm doing like a Zoom consultation, it's not the same, but I still can help people. I can help people be able to understand and be able to just talk about. Again. It would be definitely a lot easier in terms of that. I don't have to drive to and I can help people in different places, different states.
Speaker 3:I remember that even when I was in Brazil back home there was, I had clients here that I was doing online Zoom meetings with them because I had to be there with my father that was very sick. So I know it works and I know that it's just. I can reach way more people that way and way more dogs If we can. If I can just again change and shift a little bit of my job I'm still doing in-home dog training, but can I help more dogs and people and more families if I can do online consultations? So, because it's still I just I have to be able to see their dogs in the environment. I need to be able to teach people what to do or discuss what the situation is.
Speaker 1:So I'm excited to do this, yeah it's very exciting, I think it's a brilliant idea and I think, yes, it's going to be super helpful to so many more people, because you can do things virtually. It works. Everybody knows I do energy work and I do most of my sessions virtually, and so you can do things virtually. It works. Everybody knows I do energy work and I do most of my sessions virtually, and so you can do all kinds of things, and some of what you're doing really is energy. It's the energy of the dog. You're reading the energy of the dog. You're shifting the energy of the dog, and the environment is such an important part of all of it. And so I want to go in a little bit of a different direction with this and ask you a few questions about the homes that you go into and obviously we're not going to talk about specifics here, but because you do have the psychology degree and background and because you have been working with behaviors for such a very long time and obviously, systems, how often do you find?
Speaker 3:that the family system or the dynamic of the home is a contributing factor to bad behavior in the dog, because he sees people walking. By the way that, even still, even the way that people talk about their dogs Because if they really, sometimes they get the dog overly excited for doing nothing and the dog has just settled down and they're like, oh my God, he's so cute and the dog gets aroused all over again. It's oh my God. Like people have trouble to letting the dog rest and they think the resting means that they are sad. They're not. Like my dog is here on my lap, she's not sad, but I'm not getting her all overly excited, I'm not letting her be crazy all the time.
Speaker 3:I think we use excitement and arousal as happiness. It's not or even the same thing, like, oh, my dog barks at everything and that's because he's a barker. She was a barker, she was like my dog was a terrible barker. She was rehomed twice. She was surrendered at the shelter. I can probably say that she probably bit somebody the way that she acted Today. She's a delightful dog to be around.
Speaker 2:It's not in the screen here.
Speaker 3:Hello, bella, she's my first little dog um. She has been my hardest one of all dogs I've ever owned. She has pretty much again, it's one of the most stubborn, hard-headed um dogs that I've just ever encountered. Um, but in terms of again, I love her the way she is. Yes, she's not perfect. I'm not perfect, nobody's perfect and that's what I also tell my clients too, that it's just who wants the perfect dog? We don't have nobody's perfect. They have the limitations that we have to accept who they are, and some people have a hard time doing this, but that's not the dog I dreamed for me as well. That's what you have right now, so let's go with what you have.
Speaker 3:That's what you have yeah.
Speaker 2:I want to follow up on something just because I've had the pleasure. When Marcia and I decided to work together, by the way, I just talked to her because I needed a dog trainer and right away I thought, oh, she does exactly what I do, except she does it with dogs and I do it with people. And I just thought, oh, I work on the same planet. And then we reconnected a while back and then we've been doing this together. But one of the first things I said let me talk to some of your clients. I said give me some referrals, and I still have the list. It's a library. I said give me some referral, and I still have the list. It's a library. I said, wait a minute, no, I don't need a library, let me just pick a few.
Speaker 2:But what I noticed, and following up on Angie's question, is when you came into their house, their lives changed, their relationships changed with their spouse, with their children as well as with their dog. So what is it? What is it? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you? What are you attuned to? I'm going to ask and I'm going to have Angie, just I'm going to ask Angie the same question, but we'll let you go first this time.
Speaker 3:I think it is. I think everybody wants to come home to peace. This is a chaos is everywhere we go outside. That is crazy.
Speaker 3:It's traffic, it's just can you come home and be an, enjoy being home, and I think that's what I bring them. I bring peace. It really is peaceful to have a dog that is not barking his head off all the time. That is not want to bring you the ball for you to play every second. That is demanding you to rush and just go get his food right away. That you have to go 20 times, send them out to go party. This is it's a very demanding dog too, because his mindset is that is demanding.
Speaker 3:I can see the dog is in charge of everything when he's going to be petted, when he's going to play, when he's going to eat, what time he's going to wake up. So it is everybody that somebody the dog, one person get up and go to the bathroom with the dog has to follow them. It's like a nightmare, it's crazy, like when I go to people's house and I think it is like it doesn't have to be this way, so just bring the dog to again. I make decisions for her every day. All the time when I go to people's house I see the dog is making a million decisions about everything and people don't realize that they thought it was. Oh, that's how you live with a dog.
Speaker 3:It doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't. I think the fact that if you can enjoy your dog, you can also keep the dog. It's really sad when I see a lot of chaos and people are displacing the dog I don't want this dog anymore or because you didn't do your part. It's just like you're expecting a miracle comes and make things happen. It takes time, it takes commitment to make sure that you can understand and practice the things to make your life better. So I think that's what it is. It's just I want to make sure that if people are happy with their dogs, I want to avoid them from going to the shelter or to be at home or to be bouncing around. It is like just so. She's not going anywhere. She has bounced around too many times. She's coming to live with me no matter what, and I think that is. I think I'm not saying that we can save them all, because I don't believe we can save them all, but I think if we can educate better and I think that's what my clients understand, that is.
Speaker 3:Dog training is beyond sit, stay, lay down and come. Dog training is relationship. What kind of relationship do you have with your dog? Can you understand exactly what your dog needs, can you? So who is calling the shots? I see everybody's home. It's the dogs that are calling the shots every day, all the time. It's exhausting and I tell when there is a dog that is just again everything that happens around their house. The dog is barking and that dog has performed this job every single day. No sick days, no vacation. He's tired. He doesn't want to live this way anymore. Wants to live screaming on top of their lungs that somebody's out there all the time. But people think that's how it should be. It's something that people make.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think a lot of what you're talking about there really does reflect family systems as a whole, because it's not just boundaries, but it's discipline, it's self-discipline, it's having expectations that are realistic of yourself, of your dog, which is the same around the family, it's having. I've talked on several of our podcasts about understanding the child that you have. You held that baby when it was teeny, tiny and you had all these hopes and dreams and everything, and that that child may have taken a totally different path. That just means that you have to adjust as the parent to the child that you have, not the child you thought you had. You have to adjust to the child that you have so you can really understand that child's talents and skills and gifts and the beautiful things that that child is bringing to a family system. It's the same thing with the dog. They go get the dog because they have the dream and this romanticized version of what being a dog owner is going to be. And then you get the reality of the dog. It is going to poop, it is going to pee, it is going to need things, it is going to have a personality and you have to adjust.
Speaker 1:Because I think about my golden retriever that has moved in with my neighbor, marcy, which is perfectly okay, it's fine, they're great together. And but this was a dog that I rescued and it's a full blood golden retriever and so I was like, oh, this will be awesome, beautiful, soft hair, and I'll be happy to take him. And he was in a town where he had no place to run and he's a very energetic dog and so he could be on the farm with me and it was a great thing. He has matted fur that's like bristles. He's not. He does not have the pretty. He's a beautiful animal and I love him dearly and I'm happy to share him with my neighbor and we do. It's like shared custody of this dog. But it's not the dream golden retriever that I thought was coming into my life when I said yes to rescuing him. But it didn't mean that I was not going to rescue him. I think about that a lot because he is a beautiful animal, he's kind, he's smart, he's naturally very much a therapeutic dog. He's great. That's how he came to move next door. It's because he knew she needed something, she needed some help, and so he moved next door.
Speaker 1:I think it is very similar to a lot of our other guests and people who listen to our podcast about the family systems and you saying that people just want to come home to peace. Absolutely, parents want to come home to peace. They don't want to have chaos in their houses and they oftentimes they're trying to control everything, and I think that's probably another mistake that dog owners make is trying to control everything, because the more you try to control that animal, the more it's going to push back and fight against that control because you're creating fear. That's been my experience. I've experienced it with a dog and a horse of me trying to control everything and then realizing when I let go.
Speaker 1:I had an incredible relationship that I could trust with the dog and with the horse and it was eye-opening for me, and one of them was 20 years ago and one of them was about 14 years ago. So they've been lessons that I've carried with me for a long time, and it is very similar with kids, especially as they're starting to grow up, the more we try to control them and put this box around them. It's like we try to create our kids all the time to keep them safe, and then what we do is we end up creating a person that wants to push back against everything and I think oftentimes people do that same thing with dogs is they're trying to control everything to the point that the dog is really pushing back and then that chaos ensues. Is that something that you see with your clients?
Speaker 3:yeah, I see, yeah, what I see a lot has to do with sometimes. I think it's such a it's a decision that people make because they want the dog and because it's a pretty dog or because it's the looks that very rarely they look for disposition. If a dog, it is just. It's one of the most important things and it's completely in the background. They do zero research about temperament, they, and it's all about the looks, the breed. And to me, is the fact that it's just this animal is going to be exposed to your kids inside your home. You need to know what you're going to get. Is the fact that it's just this animal is going to be exposed to your kids inside your home? You need to know what you're going to get. It's the safety of your kids. That also that it's your responsibility as a parent to just to have an animal, that it's safe.
Speaker 3:I think it is just again, we are I don't know we do we dream of this. Everything is perfect. We dream that we don't have to do much. But it takes a lot of work. It takes consistency. I don't see people being consistent. I think that's another problem too. I keep saying that it's okay, so one and it's an example with kids.
Speaker 3:I see the dogs, people saying all the time they say off, good boy, off, good boy, which is off means nothing to the dog, and you praise the dog just after he just jumping and sitting and he learns absolutely nothing. So you're given exactly a correction and a reward at the same time, of course, the dog doesn't know anything. So that's confusing. And then the problem with this is they said oh, it's a puppy, it's a puppy, it's a puppy. So that is all, because the puppy excuses everything, right, so you're expecting that this dog is going to grow out of it.
Speaker 3:And the same thing, the assumption that I see people saying to kids I'm going to count into 10, which I think it's ridiculous. What are you counting for? The child is doing something he's not supposed to do. Stop counting, do something about it, but you never get to 10. Your child knows that you're bluffing and you're just lying because you're like, oh, dad is coming, wait until daddy comes home. So that's even ridiculous because you have no balls and dad is coming to the picture too. I did not have again. And this whole like terrible choose, which means that you said wow, 365 days of that year, that child can do whatever he wants, and then it comes terrible threes again, 365 days of the year. That child can do no wrong. It is just we put one little name and that name excuses everything. I think that's a big problem because my mom used to look at me and I knew better to stop whatever I was doing, that was boundaries. She didn't have to yell at me, she didn't have to say I knew her. Look and that's all it took.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the expectation, like she created expectations for you, and I think that's what you're talking about. When, like the terrible twos, the terrible threes and I agree with you on all of that the lack of consistency is incredibly detrimental to kids and animals. There has to be consistency because they feel safe. Consistency creates safety and safety works for animals and it works for humans. So consistency means safety and safety works. I think that's really important and I think that absolutely it's the terrible twos, terrible threes having that expectation. Of course, if you set that expectation, that's what you're going to get. And I think that absolutely it's the terrible twos, terrible threes having that expectation. Of course, if you set that expectation, that's what you're going to get. And I think that also relates to dogs, like you were talking about.
Speaker 1:Certain people will choose a dog based on the breed of the dog, what the dog looks like, what the reputation is around the dog.
Speaker 1:They want a dog for a specific reason, and so they get a dog because that's what they believe the dog represents reason and so they get a dog because that's what they have, they believe the dog represents. In my experience, a dog is a dog and it doesn't really matter what breed they're coming from, it's how they're raised, it's what they their parent. It's not so much about. Oh, I'm going to get a Rottweiler, because Rottweilers are big and they're mean, and it's going to be a protective dog. It might be the most subservient animal you've ever been around, and so if someone gets the dog winning a big, strong, fighting dog and that's not what they get then I have to ask why would somebody want that dog in the first place? For that reason. And so what's going on in the family system or the environment that's creating a need for that? So it's so multi-layered and it really it just is so similar to family systems and to parenting kids yes, oh, absolutely.
Speaker 3:And it's funny because people ask me all the time. They said are you talking about my kids? I'm like no, I'm talking about your dog. If you want to apply to your kid, it's your problem, but I'm here for the dog here and meanwhile you're going yep, I'm sure I'm talking about your kids and then they said it was like, oh, I wish you were here when I had my kid. You can still apply. If you really think it fits, think about it. Yeah, but they do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I told this story before. But when Abby was in wilderness and I went there for the first parent weekend and we were there and I had this shock, it made my heart sink. I had the epiphany. I realized I raised my daughter the same way I raised my dog and I thought, oh, no wonder I got the same behavioral issues and I thought it was like so in my face there was no rationalizations and I realized, well, I'm not the only one, especially after work, with work.
Speaker 2:Talk with marcia and I think part of the gift that you bring more and I get.
Speaker 2:I've had the benefit of talking to some of the people and, as you'd be surprised, going deep with them in terms of what's the gift she's bringing besides sit-state, and because they can see the change that happens in their dog when they apply some of these principles the consistency, the boundaries, not projecting your expectations, all the dumb things we do with our kids and they see that it works. Now they've got a proof of concept to apply to the marriage, to the relationships and everything else, because up to that it's just words. But because you're able to, marcia, you're able to directly give them an experiential framework of how this stuff works and what it feels like when you apply these basic, truthful principles that now they can apply. I think that's why people want them to move in with you. Or so many of the people I talked to said my life, my marriage is better, she fixed my dog and my marriage is better, and so, anyway, I've just it's just go ahead, you can just respond to that.
Speaker 1:Yes, I just agree with all of that. I think it's incredible and we're coming up close to the end of our time and I want to make sure we have an opportunity to talk about a Facebook Live. You're going to be doing a Facebook Live coming up. Can you talk a little bit about that? Give the folks the details on that, please.
Speaker 3:I want to make sure that we're going to talk about the safety of our kids living with our dogs.
Speaker 3:I think we make an assumption, that you make an assumption that your dog, your dog's never going to bite your kids or somebody else's kids. We make an assumption that is just like what we see in commercials. That is so pretty with the kids hugging the dogs and it's so pretty, and the dogs don't like it and they don't again, and if, when they do bite, they pay the price for. So I think it's so pretty and the dogs don't like it and they don't again, and if, when they do bite, they pay the price for. So I think it's very important to just to I don't know, just put just I don't know families to be aware of educating their kids about, again, how to behave around their dogs, and even somebody else's dogs too. I think we need to. It's very hard for me when I have to get a case when, not just for the kid that got bitten by a dog, but it's just the outcome of that too Because of whether the dog got it.
Speaker 1:It's really hard for everyone and it probably could have been avoided.
Speaker 3:Avoid it.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, yeah, is going to be very valuable and people can tune in from any place. How can they get the information about the Facebook, live or no? Can they sign up? Is there a registration process? How can they find out?
Speaker 2:All right, dave, that's your turn, I don't want to steal the butter, but that's my job. We have a. Marcia has a Facebook group. It's Marcia M-A-R-C-I-A, so that gets confusing. It's Marsha's Best Dog Connection and if you look up Marsha Martin, you'll find her on Facebook and first of all it'll be in the show notes. But also, if you go to, if you just go on your Facebook and look for Marsha, is it Marsha's Best Dog Connections? I got that right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the.
Speaker 1:Best.
Speaker 3:Dogs Connections.
Speaker 1:So that's actually a group that people can join and be a part of this discussion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I have a Marsha's Best Dogs page, but also I have a group inside the page that they can join and be part of the group, and that's where the Facebook Live is going to be Perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome. It's March 23rd, rather, it's a Sunday 7. Check it out. And yeah, thanks for giving us a chance to?
Speaker 3:yeah, but I'm so excited to be doing this with you too. It was such a joy to be able to.
Speaker 1:I don't know, just talk about what I do and it's pretty magical and, like every other guest we've had, we could talk for for another hour, I'm sure, and we'll probably have you come back at some time. But yeah, so March 23rd at 7 pm Eastern time? Yes, all right, and like Dave said, we will put all of Marcia's contact information website, email, phone number, the Facebook group, the Facebook page. We'll put all of that in our show notes so all of our listeners can refer back to that to get additional information. And I just want to thank you, marcia. It's been such a pleasure to have you on the show and I look forward to talking to you again real soon. And, dave, it's always a pleasure to work together and I guess that'll be it, unless we got to let Dave have last word. That's how that works.
Speaker 3:Very good. Thank you so much for having me here.
Speaker 2:I want to do one where I'm going to just interview the two of you and we're just going to compare notes about just the kids and the dogs and it's all one thing. It's all one thing, all relationship, and it all comes. There's just a few things that make all the difference in the world and we don't put our kids down the way we can, but it's, the consequences can be either way. It can go just so dramatically one way or another. Thank you, thanks to both of you for being what you are and doing what you do. Thank you, guys.
