Why Smart Sales Leaders Still Struggle to Execute with Janelle Grove

In this episode, we're diving into the gap between insight and action and why even the smartest, most experienced sales leaders get stuck there.

Joining Matt is Janelle Grove, VP/Managing Director of the Growth Collective at The Center for Sales Strategy.

Janelle shares powerful insights, including:

• Why execution problems are rarely a strategy problem (and what's actually getting in the way)
• How leadership isolation silently kills momentum, and why even high performers stall without a safe place to pressure test decisions
• Why consuming content, attending conferences, and reading all the right books still won't move the needle without accountability and peer challenge
• And, finally, why joining a peer group might just be the missing ingredient to breaking indecision and reigniting execution momentum

LINKS:

Janelle Grove

The Growth Collective

Matt Sunshine

The Center for Sales Strategy 

Transcript

Why Strategy Isn’t The Problem

Matt Sunshine 0:05

Welcome to Improving Sales Performance, a podcast highlighting tips and insights aimed at helping sales organizations realize and maybe even exceed their goals. Here, we chat with thought leaders, experts, and gurus who have years of sales experience from a wide range of industries. I'm your host, Matt Sunshine, CEO at the Center for Sales Strategy, a sales performance consulting company. You know, we spend a lot of time talking about strategy, tools, and process when we talk about sales leadership. But even when leaders know what they should do, execution still breaks down. Today's conversation is about that gap, that space between insight and action. And why even smart, experienced sales leaders get stuck there? I'm joined by Janelle Grove, VP Managing Director of the Growth Collective here at the Center for Sales Strategy. Janelle, I'm excited to dig into this topic with you. I know you're such an expert. And uh, if you're ready, let's jump in.

Janelle Grove 1:14

Yeah, let's go.

Matt Sunshine 1:16

All right, excellent. So uh I I I prepared, so I have a series of questions that I'm gonna ask you. Um we'll start with the first one. We're talking about smart, capable sales leaders here. So we're not talking about sales leaders that don't know what they're talking, what they're doing. We're we're starting with people that are smart, capable sales leaders. These these people have experience, um, they have strong teams. Why is execution still such a challenge, even when the strategy itself is sound?

Janelle Grove 1:50

One of the biggest misconceptions in sales leadership is that execution problems are a strategy problem. Most of the leaders that I work with actually do know what good looks like. They have the data, they've invested in tools, they're aligned on goals. But when results aren't happening, leaders often assume that the strategy is what's wrong. When in reality, strategy is usually fine, but it's what happens or doesn't happen after strategy is set. And execution breaks down because leadership decisions aren't made in a vacuum. They're made under pressure, revenue pressure, people pressure, culture pressures. And when leaders are carrying all of that alone, even a sound strategy can stall. It's not that they don't know what to do, but it's that they're navigating all this uncertainty and trade-offs and risk without a clear place to process it.

The Emotional Cost Of Deciding

Matt Sunshine 2:53

Yeah, that makes sense. Um kind of following up to that, maybe going a little deeper, what's the difference between knowing the right move and actually making the decision to move? Why do leaders get stuck in that space set another way? Um, a lot of times you hear deficiency of knowledge versus deficiency of execution. Like you know what, so why do why do leaders get stuck?

Janelle Grove 3:22

Well, knowing what to do is intellectual and uh deciding is kind of an emotional exercise. And once you decide to do something, you're exposed, you're accountable. And that's where even as experienced leaders, we can hesitate. We get stuck in that space between the insight and action because action creates exposure. And you know, you're accountable to that, and you can't undecide those things. Um, even for experienced leaders, when the stakes are higher, you know, with your people, your credibility, the revenue, that gap is usually filled with overanalysts or overanalyzing, you know, second guessing, waiting on one more data point. Um, but you know, underneath it is that hesitation. It's not a lack of knowledge. So, you know, once you say the decision out loud, you you know, you need to be able to test it and challenge it and build confidence. Um, oftentimes leaders stay stuck in knowing rather than executing.

Leadership Isolation And Doubt

Matt Sunshine 4:25

Yeah, the the magic is in the doing, right? I mean, you have to do it. It's one thing to know it, you got to do it. I I'm curious about this. I'm really interested in your take on this. How does the um the fact that in many cases the leader is in isolation? The the the isolation of the the leadership, how does that undermine execution even for high performers?

Janelle Grove 4:56

Isolation is one of the most underestimated execution killers. At senior levels, you you can't vent downward. Uh, your peers internally might be even your competitors, you're fearful of sharing uncertainty with counterparts or even your boss or your CEO. Your team needs you to be steady. So leaders think alone. Even even as high performers, we think alone. And thinking alone amplifies doubt. So without a trusted peer group who understands your revenue pressure, maybe board expectations, decisions that have to be made, even those small decisions feel bigger than they actually are, and that slows down momentum. High performers don't fail because they lack answers. They often stall because they lack a safe place to pressure test decisions in real time.

Indecision’s Invisible Tax On Revenue

Matt Sunshine 5:52

Yeah, I actually think that, and I know we have we had a bunch more questions that that I know I prepared and I I want to I want to get through with you, but I actually think what you just said is the biggest reason why successful leaders or people that want to be successful sales leaders need to be part of a peer group. Because when you do it alone, I'm just gonna restate what you said because I think it's just so right. You don't want to show your vulnerability to your boss, make it appear that you don't know what you're doing or that you're unsure or that you're second guessing or questioning yourself, and you can't vent down, you can't and your peers in in your own company are sometimes your competitors, and you're alone. And and how great is it when you have a you know a group of six to twelve people around you that uh are in the same boat but they don't work for your company? I just think that's I I love that that is something that you're that you're championing, taking on. I think it's so important, and in a lot of cases, perhaps it's the missing ingredient, but let's let's press on. In your experience, in your experience, what role does indecision play in stalled revenue growth? And and how often do leaders underestimate that as an impact, the indecision as the impact?

Janelle Grove 7:20

Indecision is rarely visible on a dashboard, however, it's absolutely visible in the result. And when leaders hesitate, your teams feel it, priorities are blurred, coaching conversations soften, accountability weakens, revenue growth flows, and because of that, the your leadership energy is diffused. And what's interesting is that leaders almost always underestimate that impact. We see indecision as maybe we're being cautious, but teams will experience it as confusion. The indecision compounds quietly over time, and revenue stalls rarely come from one catastrophic mistake. They come from the indecision, delayed performance conversations, postponed structural shifts, maybe hesitation to reallocate resources or slow to make pivots in response to things. Um, you know, leaders often underestimate that indecision because it doesn't feel dramatic. It feels measured and safe and thoughtful. But in reality, it reflects unresolved tension and that, you know, without a solution, just drains energy from your entire team.

Matt Sunshine 8:46

Yeah, especially when they're when they're um they're waiting for you to make that decision. They're and and in the absence of you making the decision, they start to tell themselves their own story.

Janelle Grove 9:00

Yeah, yeah. Not making a decision is effectively making a decision.

Matt Sunshine 9:06

Right. I've made the decision not to make a decision. And right, it's almost if you restated it that way, you'd be like, oh, I don't want to, I don't want that to be my decision. Right.

Janelle Grove 9:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Why Learning Rarely Changes Behavior

Matt Sunshine 9:17

It's uh it's very interesting. So many, many sales leaders, many leaders, um, they they um they consume a lot of content, right? They they like to um they like to learn, or at least they like to say that they like to learn. And so they'll read books, they'll listen or watch podcasts, they'll attend conferences, they'll they'll do all of those things, and all of those things are wonderful, by the way. Um, but but the results don't change. Nothing changes. Why, why don't you think the learning and the insights that you get from all of that input, why doesn't it translate into better execution?

Janelle Grove 9:56

Because information doesn't create behavior change. That commitment and accountability does. As you said, you know, our leaders are incredibly well educated reading the books and going to conferences and listening to podcasts. But without the a structure for action and execution, like peer challenge and reflection and some accountability, all that insight stays theoretical. You know, learning feels productive, but it doesn't necessarily move the business unless it's converted into decisions and action.

Peer Challenge Versus Coaching And Advice

Matt Sunshine 10:34

Yeah, um, I agree. I someone once told me that the challenge with any of those things, whether it's a book or a conference or a podcast, is it's an event. It's not a commitment to change, it's simply an event. And while there is euphoria from from that, whether it's a book or a podcast or or actually a conference, while there's euphoria, it lasts two weeks. Right? I mean that's about it. It lasts a couple of weeks, you're all excited, but there's no accountability measure. There's no there's no one holding you accountable, there's no one that you're accountable to, there's nobody that you that there's no partner that is also doing it, that you can compare notes. So while it's good information, it's just not enough. Right. So that kind of tees up where my next question, and and where I'm hopeful that um uh that a lot of people watching this or listening to this might really find a whole lot of value. Uh how does peer challenge differ from advice or traditional coaching when it comes to driving action? Talk to us about that peer, that, that peer component that maybe a lot of people watching or listening this don't really know about, or maybe they've heard stuff. Break it down, share with us the peer component.

Janelle Grove 12:05

Well, advice tells you maybe what someone else would do. Coaching helps you discover maybe what you already know. Peer challenge sits between those two. It confronts the assumptions, it helps test your logic, it uh forces clarity, and it does it without a hierarchy. You know, when when leaders are challenged by peers who understand the role you're in, the pressure you feel, the consequences that you're facing, your your decisions accelerate and execution follows. And when you're in a room of the right leaders, no one's gonna be impressed by your title, no one's intimidated by the number you carry. Everyone understands the pressures you face, and they'll ask you things like, What are you avoiding? What would you do if fear wasn't a factor? What's the real constraint here that you're facing? What's the cost of waiting? So that that kind of challenge that you don't get from advice or traditional coaching is what you get from a peer group and peer challenge.

Experience Sharing Over Telling

Matt Sunshine 13:21

Yeah, you know, um, you know this about me, but I'll I'll share it here. I I'm I'm involved in a peer group and uh because I think it's really important, you know, and um one of the things that I love most about a peer group from a personal uh point of view is the experience sharing that goes on. And I I don't know about other people, but if if I have a situation that I'm dealing with, I don't need people telling me what to do. Um, in fact, I think I'm the type of person, if someone told me what to do, I might even get a little defensive. I I might be like you don't know everything, you know, back off. You don't know, you don't know all the things, right? But if I can share in this group, I can share what I'm dealing with, and other people can share how they have how they have dealt with similar things in their organizations. Well, now I'm listening. Oh, that's interesting. I never thought about it that way. I'm gonna maybe steal a little bit of that, borrow a little bit of that, remember a little bit of that. And all of a sudden, it's not people sitting around going, you should do this. There, it's people sitting around going, you know, this is how I did it, or this is something that we experienced in my company. I just think it is so powerful. I feel sorry for people that don't have a peer group that they can share those things with.

Janelle Grove 14:53

Yeah, yeah. And and being around people that have had those different experiences or maybe work in a different industry uh than you do gives you that perspective and a depth that you don't get when you're around your everyday circle of people.

Matt Sunshine 15:09

That's right. Yeah, because and the beauty of it is that they're not in your industry. So it's really not um it's not competitive in that way because the the product or the services are different enough. But yeah, we all deal with, well, hey, I'm a sales leader and I'm dealing with um a person that's been on the team for four or five years that has traditionally done really well, but the last six months they're really struggling. They're not meeting any of their KPIs. Um, my company is performance driven and we're really leaning. And I'm struggling, do I what do I do with this person? How would you handle it? That's the everybody deals with that. That's not new for anybody, but the perspective is good.

Janelle Grove 15:54

Yeah.

Matt Sunshine 15:55

All right, last question. We're gonna wrap it up. For a sales leader listening, for a sales leader listening right now who feels stuck, despite them doing all the right things, what's the first shift they should make to regain, uh, regain execution and momentum?

A Common Performance Dilemma

Janelle Grove 16:13

The first shift should be moving from thinking about things on your own, being isolated and reflecting on your own, to more of an accountable dialogue. Stop asking things like what should I learn next? And start asking things like what decision am I avoiding? What action do I need to make today? And you know, execution momentum doesn't start necessarily with another program or credential behind your name. It starts with naming the hard choice, saying it out loud, and letting other people challenge it for you. And once that happens, that momentum will return.

First Shift To Regain Momentum

Matt Sunshine 16:56

Yeah, I'll I'll say, I'll add to that. People should join a peer group. I mean, I mean, it it whether if you're no matter what you do, no matter what you do, what your field is, whether you're a business owner, a sales leader, a uh chief financial officer, um, whether you head up HR, no matter what you do, it'd be really cool if you could have the privilege, the opportunity, be fortunate enough to get into a group with, I don't know, eight to twelve people that have similar job responsibilities, work in different industries, and and have someone facilitate conversations that would help you to grow professionally. I love what you're doing. I think it's absolutely fantastic because it makes a difference. It it it's it's it's super important. If we want to help grow people and want to help grow businesses, then this is the type of growth that people really need. So thank you for doing what you're doing.

Janelle Grove 18:06

Yeah, thank you for having me on.

Join A Peer Group And Connect

Matt Sunshine 18:08

All right, so Janelle, thank you for being a wonderful guest. Be sure, everyone listening to this, be sure to follow up with Janelle directly and ask her questions. Um, I've known Janelle long enough to know that she welcomes all of your questions. Reach out to her uh on LinkedIn. Uh it would probably be the best way to connect with her. All of her contact information, the LinkedIn contact information, everything will be in the show notes. Um but please reach out and ask her those questions that uh that you might have. Uh and we look forward to seeing everybody on the next episode of Improving Sales Performance. This has been Improving Sales Performance. Thanks for listening. If you like what you heard, join us every week by clicking the subscribe button. For more on the topics covered in the show, visit our website, the Center for Sales Strategy.com. There you can find helpful resources and content aimed at improving your sales performance.