The C Word & Breeder Steve Episode 4 - Understanding Cannabis Genetics and Breeding

In episode four of The C-Word, host Hina speaks with Breeder Steve, a pioneer in cannabis genetics, about his journey in the cannabis industry, the importance of breeding techniques, and the various methods of cultivation. They discuss the return of seed releases, the significance of learning resources for growers, and the differences between hydroponics and living soil systems. Steve shares insights on phenotypes, lab-assisted breeding, and the pros and cons of indoor versus outdoor growing. The conversation also touches on mechanized harvesting, new cannabis strains, and the foundational genetics of true Kush. Finally, Steve reveals his vision for a living library exhibit showcasing cannabis varieties from around the world.

#CannabisIndustry #GrowYourOwn #CannabisCommunity #CannabisIndustryandBusiness #CultivationandScience #plantscience #Cannabisgenetics #cannabis #Breeder Steve #cannabis culture #cannabisbreeding #cannabis tourism #cannabislegislation #cannabistechnology #cannabis seed production, #cannabis market dynamics, #cannabis innovations, #automated growing systems

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Transcript

The C Word (00:05)
Hello and welcome. You are listening to The C-Word where we explore current affairs and culture. I am your host, Hina. And today we kick off episode four in our series with Breeder Steve, a legend in the world of cannabis. Steve, for anyone who's joining us for the first time, his background includes pioneering in cannabis genetics. Steve is known for developing for both indoor and outdoor grows, with a focus on hardiness and innovation. So let's give a warm welcome to our guest, Breeder Steve. How are you, Steve?

Breeder Steve (00:39)
Great Hina, and thanks for the kindness.

The C Word (00:41)
We've been really interested in looking at Stars and Stripes and looking at the forum...

Breeder Steve (00:48)
I had taken the long hiatus from releasing seeds. So this year was really the first time in almost 20 years, probably, that I've released some seeds. And they weren't...something I had really totally done myself; they're with a partner in Thailand, some old friends there. So I wanted to come out under a new label.

I loved, I've been thinking of different names for seed brands and came up with a few for different purposes.

There are cultivars, the seeds may be different accessions, you know, I like to just say seed lines, you know, often for, I just say seed lines, this seed line, that seed line. Yeah, cultivars is perfect too.

The C Word (01:27)
okay. I used to say cultivars and... 

Breeder Steve (01:35)
A clone only, a single unique plant, or it can mean seeds, you know? Whereas you can say a cultivar could be a hybrid, or it could be a stable variety. It's not really a variety until it's stable, you know? So you, and most everything out there is polyhybrids, which are hybrids with hybrids and that's why the phenohunting is such a big thing, is because you can buy 10 seeds and none of them look the same, you know?

If it's really good plant, it will stand the test of time. And those cuts will be out there for a long time generally. Now, it was a little more challenging under prohibition because they wouldn't be spread as far and openly as they will when it's legal, right? So they can be lost due to prohibition pressures, people getting busted and losing their plants and...There's been genetics lost that way, undoubtedly, you know? So, you know, the goal of prohibition was essentially the extinction of a species, which, you no one has the right to legislate the extinction of a species. If the cops want to go ripping out plants, they can start with the poison ivy and move up to the poison oak, you know? There's useful things they could be doing, you know? But, hassling herbalists isn't it, you know? That's just uncivilized,

The C Word (02:56)
Hmm.

Breeder Steve (02:58)
The law can be wrong. It's been an instrument of injustice, you know, from times of slavery, right? Slavery was legal. Doesn't make it right, you know?

Cannabis prohibition is just a symptom of you know the status to overreach everywhere.

The C Word (03:17)
what history books would you recommend? Because one of the biggest problems with media and publishing as it is today, what books would you recommend for, gardening or wanting to learn more about plants? 

Breeder Steve (03:30)
Boy, that's a great question because I haven't been looking at any of the new ones, but when I started out for growing cannabis in particular, would you mean gardening in general?

The C Word (03:43)
Yes, the principals of of good grow..

Breeder Steve (03:46)
I think it's important to get a bit of a spread of knowledge and you can read up and study hydroponics to understand the minerals salt world and you know how the plant uses it and everything like that. Hydroponics is a really good thing to learn but it's not my first love let's say. I really prefer living water systems or living soil systems and I like to grow things very biologically and yet you know for my homegrown I mostly just use my kitchen compost I might buy some dolomite lime and some bone meal or something like that but I don't it's mostly what is used as gathered from the kitchen or the backyard like if I'm composting leaves that fell and stuff like that so I'll build the soil out of anything I can sort of wild craft even, you know, like charred logs. A charred log is full of potassium. Charred logs are free. Why buy that? To me, I'd just rather break up a charred log and throw the chunks in the pot and it's good to go. Then you just add water because you've got every, you've thrown everything you wanted in that pot to begin with. And then as it's breaking down, it's feeding life in the soil, all these different components, whether it's avocado skins or banana skins, banana peels, or coffee grinds. You got worms in the soil, you got those little potato bugs in the soil, it's all breaking down and eating stuff. And I'll have maybe some clover growing around the top of it too, or mint. I grow like sweet mints out of it, because like Elysium, the sweet mint is known, or proven anyway, with wine grapes, with vinifera.

Breeder Steve (05:37)
to increase the sweetness levels in the ones that's planted around, you know. And I've always just found grape vines and cannabis to have a lot in common. You know, even they're not the same, but they have a lot in common. So I thought, if it works for grapes, that the mint increases the sweetness in it, it's worth a try, right? It doesn't hurt to have them grow in there. And also banker plants. So I like to put out a lot of banker plants that...

like kale, I use sweet kale, and the aphids would go to the kale, and there'd be so many aphids on the kale, but none on the cannabis, and then when you get that high density food source for like wasps, wasps like to the aphids, so then they start building a nest nearby.

They eat all the pests in my garden. So I used to put up in my fields, I used to put up like bath houses with a ledge for the wasps to build under. you, cause whenever there was a covered ledge, the wasps would just show up and build a nest. But then having the bat boxes there with a slope out gave us...

you know bats because we'd have lights on in the field in the tropics to keep some fields in vegetative states like lighting up a soccer field so they don't flower then when you turn it off because you're on the equator it's always 12 12 neutral photo period so even if you have that light come on for half an hour at midnight every night that'll stop them from flowering but it attracts so many bugs so you get moths showing up and then the moths start laying their eggs which hatch into caterpillars in your flowers. But you get the wasps come along and they go and eat them. They take the caterpillars out of the buds. I even had pictures of this. The wasps would take the little caterpillars out of the buds, the moth worms or whatever they're called. And then they would lay their eggs in them and then chase them in balls of mud. So they would, you'd find like underneath the pots or tray or something in the green, you'd find all these mud balls, like the size of a little marble. There would be like lines of them, like almost a honeycomb of them. And you'd say, what are all these little mud balls? And they're what the wasps laid their eggs in, you know? So it's like really neat to see the natural processes.

Breeder Steve (08:09)
And sometimes you'll find rather than trying really hard to control something through sprays and stuff, it's more just a matter of letting a natural equilibrium find its way, you know, with the predators. And the predators won't occur until there's a food source. But once there's a food source, then the predators will go to work and they may never get rid of a hundred percent of it because then they'd be out of food, but they might knock it down to a

Breeder Steve (08:39)
manageable level let's say you know if you're growing tons you gotta expect there's gonna be a few bad apples in the bunch and that's just quality control issue later you know so.....

I wish I could think of specific books, but but there's people that talk about you know, there's some people are big fans of Rudolph Steiner's biodynamic school of thought and I think there's a lot of good in that I don't follow that religiously, you know, and then there's other ...You know experts in the field of regenerative agriculture

Breeder Steve (09:16)
and you could go down that rabbit hole, just search regenerative agriculture and you can learn a lot right there. Like nowadays, there's so much online, I'm constantly researching online and I don't read books anymore, Like I used to read books like crazy. I have a degree in English literature, I went mad reading, you know? But I don't have a lot of fresh recommendations, let's say. But..

Breeder Steve (09:41)
Definitely learn about regenerative ag if you're going to be growing in soil. Definitely learn about aquaponics because to me that's the height of horticulture. My favourite thing is growing them aquaponics. And hydroponics just for the basic understanding of.... I like it because you could dial in if you're blending your own nutrients from scratch you know, with all every, every salt, you know. If you can dial in what a specific plant needs, you know, you can say, because they don't all feed the same, right? So if you've got different ones, you may want to fine tune exactly what makes this one happiest and pinpoint the formula for it in very easily quantifiable salts. Whereas you can go to ape that balance in a bio situation.

But it's harder to read because you're testing, you know, when you're testing for the nutrients, that's what's available that second when you're making the test. Whereas the bio stuff is just a process of constantly breaking down. So it's not getting used up quite the same way, you know? So it's not showing as much available at that second as the salts would be, which are totally bioavailable, right?

So the bio growing too, I think there's more depth, I think, to the flavours. Like you can grow them straight with salts and you think of those like tomatoes in the supermarket that are really bland, you know? Yeah, you grew a tomato. It's not the best tasting tomato, you know? It's kind of bland, right? Whereas you grow one out with the compost in the sunshine.

Breeder Steve (11:37)
And you're like, well, that's the sweetest tomato. That's so rich, you know, and you can check the sweetness of the juice with a refractometer and check the bricks and people will check cannabis leaves for no juice, a drop, put it on a refractometer and test the sweetness for the health of the plants and that, you know, there's, you can go, you can just keep going down so far in so many rabbit holes when it comes to growing. But I think it's really,


Breeder Steve (12:07)
you know, behooves everybody to learn about each of the paradigms. And they might say, well, I'm not going to worry about learning greenhouse growing, which will have its own thoughts. But you get the basics. You can kind of apply them anywhere, you know, and you'll have to adjust based on where you're going. But overall, like the feeding will probably be the same, you know, it's not going to change that much.

The TH that eating with different plants likes isn't going to change so much whether it's outside or inside, you know? But some plants will react better to artificial light, some plants react better to sunlight, you know? You'll definitely see, if you took a, say you had a new line of seeds that you made, and you pruned a couple things, you say, I'm to plant a thousand of these indoors in rock wool with salts. Grow them under lights, I take another thousand and pick the best one outside, you know? You're gonna end up with a different plant anyway, because they're from different, you know, they started with the same seeds, but every seed is a snowflake to some degree. It's gonna be a little bit its own unique plant, right? So, but...

It might even be a phenotype thing where you might have three or four phenotypes like tall and short and purple or green, you know, so you could have any combination of those, right? So you say, well, the short purple ones weren't great inside, but the tall green ones really performed outside, you know? So you'll see different things in different environments that they're different plants, better acclimated for different environments. The more seeds you start, the better chance you have. So it's really just down to a numbers game at the end of the day and repetition. Like if you took a hundred different seed lines to a new place, I'm going to Ghana next, my next project's in Ghana, so I'll be taking a several hundred seed lines there at least and...

Some of them I'll probably just have like 20 seeds of, some of them I might have 2,000 seeds. I'm going to put them all out to test to get going. Anything that's respectable in that environment, I'll make more of and maybe work to stabilize those. But I'll also be crossing them at the same time because I might say, you know, the local varieties they call 'gone a gold'. And still within Ghana there's many variations and also there's tons of hybridized stuff mostly seeds that you know Ghanaians brought back from Europe if they were in the UK or Holland or somewhere so there's it's hard almost I think or getting harder to see the pure Ghana gold lines than it is to find hybridized stuff but the hybridized stuff's a mess and we've seen the photos coming back because I have collectors over there right now that are actually, you know, professional plant collectors that are inspecting different places and interesting people, you know, academics from a plant institute. And they're kind of jumping the shark to get out there and start seeing what's what. And they're sending me pictures and collecting seeds. And we're going to see some interesting things at 'Stars and Stripes' from Ghana soon. So I'm excited about that, especially the pure Ghana gold. And...

You know, there's...there's a need, like the Ghana Gold, it's been adapted there for who knows how long, know, millennia potentially, right? So it's been, it's very acclimatized to the conditions. It's growing at two degrees off the equator, two degrees north. You've got rainy seasons and dry seasons, which certainly affect your crop seasons.

Breeder Steve (16:27)
But anything you're bringing from outside that's not acclimatized, like the indoor lines, so maybe we say, well, we're going to be selling seeds, so we want to make some popular indoor seeds as well. But they might also have some merit to be crossed with the Ghana ones and then sorted out. Because initially, the best example of this for like tropical pressure that they're not up to, most visual glaring example right away is Septoria or Pseudo-Circusporum which are a fungus that comes out of the soil and attacks the leaves. Equatorial plants have developed, they've evolved with it and have some resistance to it, but the plants from temperate climates have never seen that fungus. They've seen other fungus but they haven't seen those hot weather tropical fungus. So as soon as you start planting those in the open down there, they have no natural resistance and they get these spots all over the leaves. And they even can the septoria can be like circular rings or the pseudo circus for this. They're splotchy. They're kind of what we think of as rust. You know, if you see rust on a plant, you know, so

Breeder Steve (17:53)
The in the native ones aren't getting it because they've evolved to resist, you know, so they have the resistance but because it because you can separate the populations so let's say you start sequencing them you could group a and b from these plants all had it. So if you say we crossed indoor type number one with this old Ghana gold and we cross those when we grow them out, we're going to find half of the plants have the resistance and half of the plants have no resistance. So we could group those and call them group A and group B and we could send leaf petioles, which are the little, you just punch out the little stalks of the leaves, the petioles, and clean them with alcohol so that they have no trace of THC or anything and then they're just considered genetic material for lab testing so you can send those to a lab and there's various labs you can use and you could say what's the difference between A and B? They're all sisters. What's the difference and they'll scan the 50 samples of this and the 50 samples of that and they'll say they're all the same except right here this part of the chromosome, this marker, this plasmid is different, you know? So you say, okay, what does, so this one means it has resistance, this one means it doesn't have resistance. So then in the future, when you're going to make selections, if you have the ability to do, you know, high throughput testing at a good rate, then you can start making your selections for certain criteria at a younger age before you've grown them all out. And that might be the chemo type. It might be, we're looking for ones that have the bubble gum smell. We know this is the marker for it. So even when the plants are this tall, you could be starting to test them to say which one's going to have the most bubblegum smell or which one's going to have the most THCP in it. You know, some obscure cannabinoids. You can find a marker for that. And then, so then you're doing lab assisted selective breeding, which, you know, people have been doing that for quite a while already. It's like HortaFirm in Holland was doing that in the late 90s, early 2000s.

They were, they isolated nine cannabinoid profiles, I think. So they made like nine stable chemotypes that were only one cannabinoid per plant. So they didn't have a spectrum of cannabinoids in it. It would just be all CBDV, all THCV, all CBD, all THC, you know, or CBG, you know. So these

You know, there's not a new thing to do. It's just there's more people doing it and in more environments. So a greenhouse in Holland, the plants that work well there, aren't necessarily going to be useful for growing out a thousand hectares on the equator. You might not be able to use those seeds. You might be able to cross them with the equatorial stuff and then pick out the ones that are, hey, that's got the chemo type we want and the resistance we want, you know.

let's try and stabilize this plant, you know, so you can develop ones for certain purposes. So we're going to develop plants which are for our own production, for our own medical production. So we might not sell those genetics, you know, we might develop genetics for, you know, proprietary use. But on the other hand, we also want to be in the genetics market and developing stuff for the genetics market.

(22:04) The C Word Jingle

(22:09) Technological Innovations in Cannabis Cultivation

(22:09) The C Word
What would you call, automated systems looking after cannabis. So, you can see how much blue light a plant needs or how much, you know, infrared it may need, like the plant can talk to you....

Breeder Steve (22:24)
Yeah, I haven't used those lights, but I've seen them. I've visited gardens that have them, and they have, like, an infrared eye.. 
It might be more, it's more than infrared perhaps, but it's at least infrared eye that is a tad, you know, it's part of the light fixture and it reads the canopy. It reads what the light is on the canopy and it also reads the plant somehow. I haven't looked into it in great detail, so I'm not really an expert on it. Definitely not an expert on it, but the, but it exists, you know that because I've seen it. The guys had all the data from this light is on their computer and it knows... 

You know, I think they were testing it out for the manufacturer at the time because this was quite if this was a while ago seven eight years ago and they said, It could tell if the plant could take more light it would increase the light itself.. You know? And if it was like starting to cook the plant it would dial down the light. So it was a variable You know controller but it's automatic, you know, it's brilliant really but, 

I haven't been following the tech advances in indoor growing that much because, I never focused on it commercially. I can appreciate that it's an awesome hobby; had nothing against that. And I don't care. People want to grow it commercially too. That's their business. to me, it's the Special Olympics of growing. It can win in consistency though.

You can really dial in the temperature. know, but I mean you pay for it. So a lot of places used to, in the black market days, lot of warehouses in British Columbia, for example, they would just operate in the fall, winter, and spring and then shut down for the summer because it's too hot and it costs too much to air condition it. Because you're generating a lot of heat with the lights back then because we were using high pressure sodiums, not LEDs. So nowadays a lot of people use LEDs.

So they maybe don't have to pay as much for their aircon, but overall indoor growing just uses so much power that to me it's just the cost of that power makes it inefficient. If you had free power, never, you know, but if you've got to pay for the power, it's very expensive to grow indoors. So the cannabis has to cost a lot more and it makes sense for doing some seed work and stuff.

I'll always need some indoor rooms for that or prefer having it. Need is, I can get away without them, but they're handy to have some pollination chambers for test batches and stuff like that. Or if you want to do some stress testing and leaving plants in the dark for two or three days and then the lights on for two or three days and just messing them up to try and force them to hermaphrodite. And then if they do them, then maybe they're not plants you want to use as a reversal or making fennel seeds with because if they have a propensity to hermaphrodite under stress you'll just get more hermaphrodites and more hermaphrodites if you use those in the seed production runs. So you've got it's a great idea to stress test plants before you go into production if you can. Light stress is just one of the ways and then there's also heat stress is another good way or drought stress.

All of those you can do in a little closet, you know, so it's good to have the ability to check stuff out. And also you can grow some picture perfect, you know, not a hair out of place kind of cannabis because it looks good. And what sells seeds is photos, you know, videos and photos are spinning, you know, 360 photos of the bud turning around.

It has to look really perfect and it can't have like leaves that are from the wind and stuff. . It's nice to have some indoor for just for that alone. But still you can grow beautiful weed in the greenhouse. You can grow beautiful weed outside. And again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You know, so I love to see a beautiful outdoor bud growing with trees around and blue skies and clouds and..

To me that I prefer being outside than in the warehouse I just I had made my mind up about that a long time ago plus the best of the best herbs I've ever grown or had have been the best of the best outdoor I've had you know So I can grow really dynamite indoor. I know lots of people can; But I've never had any indoor that rocked my world the same way that the very best outdoors I've done has you know, so it's,

Outdoors is a gamble every time because you have zero control over the weather. Right? So one thing I'd like to do that I do with my personal plants and I've done commercially is what I call cheater outdoor where I just keep the rain off and have like a cover over well up over the plants so they need airflow and but if you can keep the rain off them that gives you outdoor a much bigger

Breeder Steve (27:49)
shot at winning but true out there you have you know that's it's really it's outdoor like they could be planted in the ground they have no walls nothing they have all the wind coming through they're just not getting rained on so that makes a difference but with big you know fields like that I never had them covered you know i do some covered areas maybe but I like I want to to me of the shift is always about moving

from the horticultural paradigm to achieve mechanized agricultural paradigm, where you're using mechanized agriculture just as you would for typical grain crop. It's really good. If you look at barley or rye or something like that, cannabis is in that family. It has the seeds there. You grow it. If you plant them high density, the seeds all tight together.

Breeder Steve (28:46)
They just grow a straight piece up with one flower full of seeds, right? So if you can combine that and you can make, I've seen there's specialized combines coming that are gentler with the flowers that had to cross them like this and then carry the flowers up. So there's going to be improved ways of mechanized harvesting, but still is mainly thought of, you know, I think of that more for an extract situation, whereas

If you're going to harvest it for actual flowers, you kind of want to do it by hand and take care not to bruise the flowers, same with if you would with a soft fruit, like you're harvesting peaches or something. You want to be gentle with it, right? So the thing is for extracts and hash, you still want to be gentle with it, but it's a little less of a concern because it's all going to be oatmeal soon. You know, you're just going to be (inaudible). So

It's mostly the time lapse from cutting it to extracting it to this quality difference, you know. You don't want to thrash it if you can help it, because then you'll get all the resin just stuck to the machine anyway. But if you can cut it and get it into a refrigerated trailer, a trailer that somebody's chucking dry ice into, and you do that fresh frozen right over the field, and you're dumping trailers behind, you know, have

Breeder Steve (30:16)
tractors taking away the full trailers from the combine and another tractor pulls up and its trailer gets filled just like you're harvesting grain on a massive scale somewhere. And if those trailers can be back and dumped in 15 minutes, you know, you can conceivably with the fresh frozen sift approach and rosin, you could be soil to oil in under an hour.

That was kind of my mantra for the large places I'm designing is I'm trying to get the harvest down from soil to oil in under an hour. You know? And if I can achieve that, that's my goal. And that's for preservation, getting it done quick. And it's still very ambitious. I mean, even if I hit two hours, it's still beautiful. You know? It's still beautiful. But my goal is soil to oil in under an hour.


Breeder Steve (31:09)
And that would be, that would be to produce extracts, high quality, like the top quality extracts that people love are the fresh frozen solventless. So by freezing and tumbling the fresh plants as they come in, you know, you have a line, you don't have people working. It's all mechanized. So the trailer would dump that. It would go into a hopper that's got a screw.

It's taken it up here, then it goes through a bucking system where it's also maybe pulling off a lot of the big leaves, but it's pulling all the bud off the stalks. You know, it's kind of two things. One is the bucking where it pulls everything off the stalk. And then you can have a slotted cylinder that has a light vacuum and Cutters.

So that it pulls the long leaves that hang out from the bud. They can hang through that cylinder and get ripped off, you know, or cut off. And then you've got all this fresh, fresh bud that's going into a chilled tumbler that might be the size of a cement mixer. And you might...

keep the temperature at minus 14 and just have like an injector for liquid nitrogen. So it's not minus whatever, 75, but it's, you're just putting in enough to keep it to minus 14, which I find to be a sweet spot for tumbling. And then the fresh hash, the resin that drops through there can either be squished right away.

Or you could grade, you could have that also graded so that you're maybe the best grade of the hash you'd keep separately for hash. And then the other grades would drop to be squished potentially through rolling a roller system that will just have a wave of rosin coming off of it. So it's a continual press, you know? So basically a belt press on its side even.

You know, so, but people aren't quite there selling that machinery yet. So you pretty much have to design your own for it, you know? So that's been fun to play with on the bench scale and design. Hey, this is what I want to do to process a ton of minute, you know, or a ton every 10 minutes or something like what is the throughput I can get? So you're always playing with logistics and

fantasizing about scaling it up, you know, and making it, because that's what's gonna happen, because it comes down to efficiency at the end of the day. And if you can start squishing out high grade rosin and selling it for the price of peanut butter, instead of, you know, rare perfume, it's gonna be widely accessible. The average person that now,

they smoke grass because they can't afford to smoke live rosin or they don't think they can afford it or maybe they really can't, you know, but it is seen as more of a treat or as a luxury good. And sure, there are people that drink vintage champagne every day, but we don't all drink vintage champagne every day, you know? So, but we could make it accessible. So it could be cheaper. So right now it's 10 times more than flower, right?

If we did this at a vast mechanized agricultural scale and still kept it to a high grade, it could be 10 times less than flower, you know, because it's not done by hand, right? No, flower will always have to be hand trimmed to look any good, you know, really well. There's some machine trimming that's okay. It's really in the, it's how it's used as well. If the plants are too dry, machine trimming will really mess them up because they'll knock all the hash off them. So the machine trim is frowned upon, you know, so it will never be the very top shelf will always be hand trimmed. You could have some pretty damn nice stuff that's machine trimmed if you know what you're doing with it, but but at most not everybody does. But to me it doesn't matter. As much as I love and respect the flower, I prefer the best quality hash and extracts from it.

And depending on the flower, some of it's just better as flower because of what it is. But a lot of things today, you can enjoy them better in their purified form, you know the concentrated form. And it's really easier on the constitution. It's just better for your lungs and far more effective to, you know, dab or vaporise a little grain of rice than to smoke a cigar.

Breeder Steve (35:14)
You're vaporising something the size of a grain of rice. It's just plant essence. Doesn't have the paraffins or chlorophyll or fibres, you know, just the flavours, aromas and the cannabinoids. And that's all you're getting in that concentrate.

36:26 The C Word Jingle

Breeder Steve (36:31)
I think you were interested in the Seeds of Anarchy and I've gone in a big, big, long circle talking about the new brand. Anyway, here we are back to the Seeds of Anarchy thing is...

The C Word (35:46)
Well, I was reading for 'ego punch', the parents you crossed, is it Legendary mother OG punch with candy slurrican? Yeah.

Breeder Steve (36:00)
Yeah, legendary OG Punch, that's right. So the first release of seeds from the Thai project were pollinator feminized seeds that were pollinated by a reverse candy slurricane. And I selected that one to be the pollen parent due to its appearance and vigour and It has some sweetness to it, which I'm always a sucker for the sweet ones. It was you know decent resin producer, which is always nice as pure a hash person. You want to see lots of visible resin, you know and the But overall vigour in it, you know the candy slurricane, It has some God bud in it from Jordan of the Islands, another BC breeder from way back. And his Godbud's really well known. It's a very, very vigorous plant and it's very mildew resistant. Remind me of my Sweet Tooth Forest, a very similar plant leaf shape and everything. Both of them totally mildew resistant. So he's a coastal grower and that's a huge feature on the coast where it's cold and wet. Mildew's really bad thing. So the Godbud...
brings mildew resistance to anything it's crossed with. Maybe not every plant in the offspring, but certain amount of them will have it. So it was nice to see. It was nice to see A of BC line, because I didn't bring it over there. It was all stuff that my friends had found or were gifted in Thailand. So we never imported those seeds or anything. They just ended up with us. It was like, something from BC.

And it was kind of modernized having the slurricane frost into it and whatnot. So it was like an elevated God bud, let's say. You know, so was like, this is decent pot. It wasn't the, like, I wouldn't say it was the strongest one, but it wasn't the weakest one. You know, it had a decent potency and it seemed like a fair choice for a potential pollen parent.

The legendary OG Punch was one of my top picks because in the greenhouse we're growing, which is in the plains of Thailand, which is lowland, hot, hot, humid, humid area. It's a greenhouse, even hotter and more humid. You know, so it was in very challenging conditions that we were making selections. We were making selections from about 130 different lines, I think, the first year.

And then probably checked another 50 in year two. But of those first ones, there was four or five that really stood out to me. And Legendary OG Punch was one, because contrary to what like pictures of it would look like online that I'd go to see, just probably due to the conditions, this one had really thin leaves.

People know it, like they can tell and they go, man, I grew these out. Dude, they just outperformed everything. They just take over the garden. They're insane, you know? So they, what do you do to them? know, people think I do something, like I give them something special. You know, it's like, just try and work with the best things you can find. and then, especially when they're very different and when you put those two together.

You're gonna really see some shocking results. And if they're stable, both parents are stable, then you have a true F1 hybrid rather than hybrid of a hybrid making a poly hybrid, which is most of everything right now. There are some places doing true F1s again. It's funny because I see these come out in the last year or two and the people say, we've released the first true F1s with stable parents. I'm like, yeah, I did that 25 years ago.

But you just laugh because they'll think they've reinvented the wheel.

The C Word (40:56)
And sunflower, where I think the parents are... is it Post Malone? The mother is Post Malone?

Breeder Steve (41:02)
Yeah, there was a, the mother was a  Post Malone, the same Candistricane father, you know, .. pollen parent let's say. And the Post Malone was a little stouter plant and a little hashier nose, let's say. It was a little more compact, yeah, different, very different plant than the legendary OG Punch.

Plus the legendary OG Punch was more, the flower was more of a night green and the Post Malone one was way darker green. know, they were different, different shades, different smell, different taxonomy, very different plant. But still, but in good potency. I think people, that would go Sunflower growing out, I think has been a little more finicky than the others. So the people that I've heard, you know, I've got a lot of people doing testers of them in different environments. And the one that a few people told me, I had to baby that one. It was a little more delicate, but at the end of the day, smoked well.

The C Word (42:15)
And could you tell us about the Sour cherry? The mother is, Gary Payton with Larry Chimes?

Breeder Steve (42:25)
Yeah, that's right. And I think that one was sent to us from an American breeder that just not mailed them to us, but actually gifted them to us in Thailand. And that was Dutch Blooms. And he's a nice young grower. I met him at the 25th anniversary for Vancouver 420 event. So there was a big 25th anniversary and that was a riot that 420 and, Anyway, that's where I met him, but he, he gave us quite a few things to try out and that was one that made the grade as a potent plant that had some commercial appeal, you know had the tight buds. It was very modern cannabis. Let's say it had a very modern West Coast look to it, you know? and a little more purple colour

Breeder Steve (42:36)
So very, very distinct from the other ones.

The C Word (42:41)
Is that good for outdoor also? Sour cherry?

Breeder Steve (42:44)
Well, outdoors, it's a big world, so it depends where you are. Somewhere it'll be good for outdoor. I can't say everywhere it'll be good for outdoor, because it really depends where you are. So I'm hoping to hear back from the testers who've been receiving these to try them out in different environments. We have people checking them in Hawaii or Jamaica, outdoors in Canada next year, you know? They're good. Outdoors in Canada and Hawaii are very different, you know, and even in Canada it's huge, so outdoors in Canada is still not really telling you anything until you line up where. But the best place to grow outdoors in Canada by a long shot is the very southern tip of southwest Ontario, and that most of the Canadian border with the States is at the 49th parallel, but it dips down in the Great Lakes there. 

So there's like this little triangle that comes down and the bottom of that triangle is the 42nd parallel. And that's the same latitude as the Northern California, Southern Oregon border. So you have exactly the same photo period. You don't have the same season. You have different weather patterns and everything. It's not the exact same place, but it's comparable because it's at the same latitude. So at least on that.

It's the same, you know, so your season could be longer or shorter, you know, based on how close to the ocean you are and things like that too. and still to this day, some of the best I've ever smoked in my life. I've grown outdoors back there.

But that was, you know, like grown within two hours of Detroit, let's say, you know? So, and some of it even closer, probably like an hour to Detroit or something. But, so it's very close to Michigan, Ohio. Those places, you know, they can grow some fantastic herb. The best American weed I ever had was from Ohio.

Everybody's like California's got the best of it. I've had some great California weed, I've had some great Hawaiian weed, I've had some great Oregon weed, but still the best American weed I ever had was from Ohio. Ha! I kid you not. So anyway, it's not to say I didn't try everything everywhere. you can

Breeder Steve (44:54)
Do good weed anywhere. Or at least on the same shelf, you know? So you can do that in Australia. You can do that in California.

You can grow great Pinot in Burgundy or in Oregon, you know, or in New Zealand. But it doesn't mean that it's all good, you know, from any place. There's the bad, there's the good, the excellent, and the mediocre, let's say, you know. So it weeds the same way. You can say all Mexican weed is brickweed. That's not true. I've had fantastic weed in Mexico, but it's not what comes in a tractor trailer to you in Indiana. You know, that's different. You know, you can't really compare both commercial bales of seeding brickweed that's all brown with fresh Mexican that's done right. The best I ever saw in Mexico was from a young Mayan guy in the 80s. It was purple and frosty and I haven't seen weed that good Mexico since then. 

 (47:00)
The C Word Jingle

The C Word (47:05)
The best conditions for growing 'Gargoyle'? The mom is mean mug and she's with cherry pie lime.

Breeder Steve (45:49)
That's right. That's another one from Dutch Blooms. And I never saw cherry pie lime on its own, but a lot of the stuff he sent or gifted us was all crushed cherry pie lime, I think most of it. So there was this mean mug cherry pie lime. The mean mug was a little more on the rotten meat side, if I recall.

but had a real good potency to it. So I looked at the mean mug I was in Bangkok the last time I was there, my partners picked me up at the airport with a pickup truck full of coolers with weed packed on ice all sealed up so we all put these coolers at the airport and we take out a bagful of at the airport and we get 'smile!' at the picture.

It's just wide open legal to do it, so it didn't matter. But he said, before we go back to the farm, we got some deliveries to make. So we went to drop off some herb and some shrubs sort of in peripheral Bangkok neighbourhoods where there's no tourists and it's really just the local market. And I remember the guys being so excited when we showed up because they knew, you know, we had special weed that looked a little different than everybody else's. and different flavours and that. And I remember sitting down with those guys and that was what we pulled out. They had, we had a bunch of varieties with us, but we pulled out the Mean Mug first and because they were asking for it, they loved it. So they chopped it up and packed a bong and I remember you just got off a direct flight from Vancouver. So it's a long trip 17 hours in the plane So you just get out of there? You're kind of feeling a little wonky and then I go and have some bong hits with these young Thai guys And it was the mean mug and I remember being really high just like What was that again? That was the mean mug. yeah, that was the mean mug. Yeah, I like that and it was again a very compact plant

Breeder Steve (47:52)
you know, that had really tight rock hard buds, which is kind of the fashion right now. It's like, harder the bud, the better. You know, lot of people like that. That's kind of, fluffy bud isn't popular right now. If people can see a bud that looks fluffy, they don't want it. But if it looks like, like a bunch of frosty rocks, they're like, yeah, that's what we want, that hard bud.

The C Word (49:40) The C Word Jingle

The C Word (49:45)
I'd love to learn about True Kush,

Breeder Steve (48:23)
Well, I don't like, I've never grown it, so I don't have anything firs thand to say, but I've seen the testers grow it out. And it is really what we are saying it is, you know, True Kush. This is proper Afghan slash Pakistan village, you know, border region, Hindu Kush.

Breeder Steve (48:49)
So that's the foundation of all indoor basically. The foundation of all indoor is that because people couldn't grow, they didn't start growing weed indoors until they had Afghan already, know, which is Afghan came back to the West coast of North America and got crossed into all the Mexican and Colombian and Thai that people started with, but it wouldn't really finish.

Then once they got this Afghan and they're like, whoa, this totally finishes big fat buds and they totally ripen in time and you know, they're heavy, they're frosty, they're stronger. And then they started crossing that with the other stuff, right? So you end up with skunk basically, which was sort of the first famous modern hybrid that became a household name, right? So that was.

Breeder Steve (49:41)
I, if memory serves, I think it's Acapulco gold, Colombian gold and Afghan. I totally space on it. the, but that's, and the, you know, the guys that bred skunks, Sam the skunk man did enough work on it to stabilize it pretty good. And then that became crossed with all kinds of other stuff, you know, where somebody else was breeding Northern lights at the time. And that was pretty much out of Afghan stuff and that's really the foundational building blocks of all the modern lines and they've had sure other stuff happen along the way too that's been introduced but those were really the big ones right out the gate let's say that set the stage for modern cannabis gene pool and for people that have a chance to grow proper seed from that region. I think it's a beautiful thing. There's other people collecting it as well. There's lots of different villages and every farmer's got seed that's been in the family for centuries or that they picked up from their neighbour or that they picked up when they went across the country. The northern Afghan stuff is generally a little different from the southern Afghan stuff which is slightly different from the Pakistani stuff, so you're gonna get a real range, but it's so much intermingling of them always happening that it's more of a regional gene pool. So it's not so much about like some some of them will have very distinctive characteristics that you'd expect from that gene pool, you know, you're gonna get a range, but the beautiful thing is they're hardy plants.

You see all the testers' reports have come back. They have big, fat, wide, wide, huge leaves.

That's with the true Kush is a great example of authentic Kush genetics. and we've put them out at a totally rock bottom price, which I think scares a lot of people that they think, they can't be good if they're that cheap. But the fact is we've got access to volume and there's such a unique offering in that they are foundational seeds basically of what's out there now. It's like being able to go back in time for people to trace it back to the roots and say, hey, what does this stuff taste like on its own? What's the true Kush, you know, before it's been crossed with anything else? Hash washing, you know, sifting and washing for hash is all the rage. And these plants are through hash plants.

Breeder Steve (52:36)
They never harvested this for flower. They don't smoke flower. They just smoke hash.

They're not going to be disappointed in the potency or taste. It is the real deal. And we've also packaged these same seeds under our other brand, La Sagrada Semilla, because La Sagrada Semilla was developed as a brand for carrying all this heirloom or potentially land race collectibles. I like to think of these as heirlooms because they're coming from farmers.

Breeder Steve (53:09)
It's not like they were wild at the site of a river bank high in the mountains somewhere. know, it... Land races and even plants that are... have gone feral, it's before they were domesticated, you know, whereas these Kush seeds, they're domesticated. People have been growing them for centuries at least, you know, and they've just been in that region. So it's not like they're totally isolated and stabilized in each village. But each village usually has some variation as well. But they're all part of one big family basically.

The C word Jingle (55:13)

Feedback from Growers and Testers & Hosting the living Library

The C Word (55:13)
This is great. Have we had any feedback from any of these? From the growers, yeah. 

Breeder Steve (55:16)
Yeah, 

Breeder Steve (55:18)
yeah definitely. We'll have to show you some pictures. And there's more growing them right now. There's a guy in Germany posting steady pictures of, I think he's got sunflower going on, but they look really healthy. They're in a living soil bed. I can't think of his handle off the top of my head, but every week or so I'm seeing an update on X from him. But yeah, they're out there. There's people growing them and... 

Breeder Steve (55:46)
The buds that have been harvested by the first testers have looked pretty good. So, after the testers, once I have a bunch of testers approve some lines, they say, Hey, I love this. I love this one. Then we'll release it, you know? So there's still, even though they're now released, there's still tester reports to come in, you know? So it's, it's ongoing fun to see because it's really a pleasure to see the different ones in the different places. 

Breeder Steve (56:16)
And we just sent some to four farmers in Jamaica, in different parts of Jamaica. It's actually 17 degrees north, same as the farm in Thailand where they were bred. But in Thailand they're in a greenhouse, but in Jamaica they'll just be in some outdoor spaces. And hopefully if they get them up and going and they're sending me solid reports and then they look worth my while, I might take a trip down there and go visit and check out all the plants. 

Breeder Steve (56:46)
Some of them are really keen and they're happy to keep sharing the data with you in the pictures and the videos of the plants as they grow. Then it's worth my while to send them a lot more testers because I like to... 
I want to host what I call my living library exhibits, which I've only done one so far, but these are everything I've collected and the people have shared with me. I had people sharing with me over something I called the million seed search. And I said, listen, if you send me the seeds, we'll get you back pictures and grow reports of them, lab work, if we bother with it. And you're welcome to visit.

Once everything is ready, you know, we'll do a demo garden fold living library so you can see the whole gene pool alive at once. And once we know the finishing times, we'd even stagger plant them so that if you just showed up, say the first week of December, all these different types would all be finishing. They'd all be like a week from finished at the same time. So you could see an enormous variety.

The C Word (54:47)
Wow.

Breeder Steve (54:51)
And we've done this once already and I'm going to continue to do them. And the one I'm planning in Ghana, rather than just in rows like I've done them before. And I might have, you know, these rows are Southeast Asia, these rows are, you know, India, these rows are North Africa, South Africa, East Africa, West Africa, all these different collections showing up in different parts.

In Ghana, what I've told my partners I want to do, and they've agreed, is I want to make a field into a map of the world. Right? So you'd have, some classic Florida ones, you'd have planted in Florida, you know? Or in Alaska, you'd have the Matanuska Thunderf**k, you know? Alaskan Thunderf**k. So you could have...

the whole world like in Thailand you're gonna have ten different Thai ones you know so you can make a map of the world that is like a cannabis map of the world and if you're yeah if you're in Mullen Bimby Australia you have the Mullen Bimby madness you know so there's all these crazy.. you know that's a crazy plan but it's also a lot of fun, so, is and even look do I need to do that I don't need to do

Breeder Steve (56:10)
I want to do it, you know? I can grow them out in rows and learn just as much about them. If they're Laotian or Cambodian or Vietnamese black, know, Vietnam you'd have different ones, right? So I can check those. It doesn't matter if they're in rows, but I want to make it like fun. Like a, a corn whiz, but a world of weed, you know? So I'll invite, you know,


Breeder Steve (56:37)
academics that I respect in the world to see it, but also just sort of aficionados too, like sort of getting the golden ticket to Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory, you know, like come and see this, this is going to be exceptional, and make it very photogenic, so that if you put the drone up, you can see the world of weed, and then you could be standing in it, and you could walk around the different continents and

Breeder Steve (57:05)
check out different herbs in different places. It'll be fantastic. But yeah, we'll have to, we might have to make the West Coast large because so much comes from the West Coast. It's be hard to fit it all in, you know? But yeah, it'll be fun. It'll be a sight to behold. It's a publicity stunt in a way, but I don't want to be so cynical about it because it's not just that, it's also church, you know? Like...

Breeder Steve (57:31)
You feel special to be there. you know, I feel like I'm in church just having them in rooms. I just thought having them put out over a big like extended global map, it would just be obscenely cool. It would be so fun to spend a couple of weeks there just going around watching them finish, you know, because they are, every week they're a little different and they smell, the smell evolves usually from.

Breeder Steve (57:57)
halfway and flowering to the end, it's not really the same. You like to pick out, for me it's all about smelling it. I love to smell it, you know? Some of them I can't stand the smell of, some of them I can't get enough of it. But I'm rarely indifferent to them. Sometimes if it's just meh, it's not good. I'm just like, oh well. So certain ones that don't appeal to me, other people really like.

Honestly, like my Shishkaberry, to me, it's one of my favourite hash plants. Even, even I would say my favourite hash plant, you know, which is hard, you know, because I like some for different reasons, but Shishkaberry is an immaculate hash plant. And that's what I get asked most to re-release is people want more Shishkaberry. They always want more Shishkaberry,

They, it was just such a fantastic plant for hash. And that's because of its Afghan roots.

The C Word (1:02:00) The C Word Jingle 

The C Word (1:02:05) Growing your own; A New Years Resolution
For the new year, I was wondering if there's people who were thinking of starting grow if they had a new year resolution.

Breeder Steve (1:02:11)
It depends where.

Yeah, if your New Year's resolution is to plant some herb on your backyard deck or in your balcony or something, You'll really be starting into a fun little hobby and you can learn to make something with anything that you grow, basically. I mean, if it's not perfect for flower, it's perfect for cooking with. You know, so...

Breeder Steve (1:02:38)
You've got to remember that. You've just got to think, hey, it's whatever I do is better than nothing. You know, but, and if it does turn out really dynamite, you'll be so proud. But even if it just turns out middling to average, you can infuse cooking oil with it, which doesn't require extraction with flammable solvents or anything. It's literally just cooking the weed and cooking oil and straining it out.

And if the grass is really weak that you're using, like it's just leaves or something, maybe you want to do that three times with the same oil. And you might have to add a bit of oil to top it up, but use thick leaf. Cook one part leaf in one part oil. Strain and press and get it as dry as you can. That'll turn your golden cooking oil into light green cooking oil. Then put in the second part of cannabis into that same oil.

Cook it again, low simmer for half an hour. Take it out, press it dry. Put the oil back in the pot. Put the last third of your pot into it. And you might need to top it up a little bit at that point, because you're always losing some oil in the pressing process, because the material, you're using dry material that is suddenly soaking wet with oil. So you're always losing some to your biomass there. But you cook it down three times.


Breeder Steve (1:04:06)
That goes from gold to light green to dark green to black, you know, is just like used motor oil by the end. You could have five gallons of oil from one plant. Like really, right? You could do a big stock pot, and that five gallons of infused cooking oil, you just use a quarter cup when you're making a pan of brownies or squares where it says use a quarter cup oil, third cup oil.

Breeder Steve (1:04:35)
You use that oil and you're cooked. You're totally medicated from that. Or I'll put, I might make green eggs and ham, you know, just in a frying pan. And you could throw some in, just a tablespoon in the frying pan. And an hour or two after breakfast, you're going to feel like you're floating a little bit, you know? And I've fried potatoes in it. I've made potato chips in it, you know? You can use cooking oil for so many ways of cooking, right? But if you just have plant material infused into cooking oil, it doesn't have to be picture perfect flower. It can just be whatever. It can be your male plants, you know? It literally works. it's, to me, that's the most, you know, waste not want not approach to, for the average person with no equipment other than a kitchen to turn.

Breeder Steve (1:05:34)
crappy weed into something great, you know? So it's totally effective to use it that way. Totally effective

The C Word (1:05:40)
I'm wondering if you can make butter. 

Breeder Steve (1:05:42)
Yeah, you can use butter, you can make ghee,

Absolutely, you can use any oil, but the hemp seed oil is nice to use because it has the, it's way more expensive generally than like sunflower seed oil, but the arachidonic acid in hemp seed oil, which hemp seed oil is the highest source of arachidonic acid of any of the oils, it actually helps the cannabinoids pass the blood-brain barrier. It carries it through. So it's actually one of the most efficient oils to deliver it to your head. But it doesn't matter. You can use coconut oil or sunflower oil or whatever you want. It's vegetable oil. Especially if you're making five gallons, you don't want to buy some fancy, expensive oil. Just whatever you normally would use. But you can give away those jars. Like if I have a mason jar of that, like a quart mason jar in the fridge,

I probably, and I'm the only one in the house that uses it, it'd probably last me a year, you know, even more. But that's, but from just one plant, I might have five gallons of that oil. So you give away the jars. You can't possibly use it all yourself because it's such an efficient use of all this stuff that mostly I don't even bother because I've just kind of stockpiled so much and I can just take a...

Breeder Steve (1:07:09)
pinch of hash or whatever, cooking in butter, I'm good to go, you know? So I don't, since I'm the only one that uses it, I don't, I haven't made it in a while. So I usually just compost all the leaves. But when I was younger and also times in the summer would be drier because a lot of people shut down their indoor groves. So there was always times during Prohibition, like in the 80s and 90s, by the...

By July and August, cannabis wasn't as easy to get as it was other times of the year. And the summer prices might go up because it was harder to find. You'd like, the town's pretty dry right now. I can remember like back when we were teenagers and stuff. It wouldn't happen in the fall, winter, or spring. In the summer, sometimes it happened. And that's when I would be harvesting. Once I started growing, when I was like 18, I'd be...

harvesting my males in the middle of the summer. Most people just throw them out, but I'd be like, you know, let's try and make some edibles from it see if it works. And I made that five gallons of oil and like 10 of my friends couldn't finish it in a year, you know? I gave everybody jars to take home. It was (inaudible) 

The C Word (1:08:21)
Does it have a sell-by date? 

Breeder Steve (1:08:27)
If you keep it in the fridge, it lasts a long, time. But once you've cooked oil, it's not as stable. So it can go rancid, right? So.

Breeder Steve (1:08:35)
So you want to refrigerate it once you've cooked it. But it's, I mean, I've had, I've had over a year old that I kept, I used to the end and they were good, but it was amazing because just a spoonful, if I was making some fried potatoes or something in the morning, I'd put a spoonful of oil in there. If it was just me eating it, if I was cooking for my family, I wouldn't put it in, but if it was just for me, no problem, you know, and.

I just love the feeling of edibles. You have a very different effect from edibles compared to inhaled, because your liver processes it differently. It's hydroxy 11. But it's a different stone. And I feel like I need both to be properly stoned. Some friends just can't do edibles because they're just like, it's too strong.

When you smoke it or vape it or dab it, goes away. You know, it goes away in an hour or two, pretty much back to normal, you know? Whereas when you eat it, you might need a good day and a half or two to finish the system. You know, just lingers and lingers and you're just like, you might be totally screwed up for about 12 hours or something, but the next 12 hours might not be quite getting back yet either, you know?

The Economics of Edibles and Home growing  (1:10:13)

 You can get you can eat way too much and I've definitely done it. You we're, you know, in Canada, the legal dose is is considered 10 milligrams. So they can't sell more than 10 milligrams even in a package. So they might sell Gummy bears that are five milligrams each in one package and it's seven dollars or something. It's an absolute ripoff You know.  It's a huge ..The biggest markup in the dispensary is in those edibles for sure by a long shot.  Because the oil can be made from anything and they're distillate oil, which is 90 % THC typically; that's Wholesale.

Breeder Steve (01:10:40)
That's down to a couple grand, you know, I don't know, two to four grand, two to $4,000 a kilo. Right. So you've got 900 milligrams in a gram. So how many gummies can you make? Right. 90. You can have 90 packages from one gram of oil. Right. 

Breeder Steve (01:11:08)
You're buying it for you two to four dollars a gram that oil and then you're making it into gummies and then charging 700 bucks a gram, you know, so it's a massive markup in the Edibles Department so it behooves people to learn to make their own and once you do that's, you realize this is cost nothing. 

Breeder Steve (01:11:30)
I don't buy dope, you know. I grow my own. And I think, my God, why would I pay that much for it when I can like cherry tomatoes? You're saying my cherry tomatoes, if I make them into gummies, they would be worth thousands of dollars. That's crazy, right? If that's a $5,000 cherry tomato plant, if I have to buy it in those tomatoes, from the store, you'd never buy them. Because you know how cheap and easy it is to grow them. You'd be like, $5,000 bucks for that box of cherry tomatoes? No thanks. That's how I look at ganga.

Breeder Steve (01:12:09)
You can make your own edibles so much cheaper if you just grow your own. And even if you don't grow your own, you can still make them cheaper. You can buy the weed and make the edibles. So it's a personal thing. Most people, they just can't be bothered. 

 The C Word Jingle (1:12:27)

The C Word (1:12:33)

Steve, thank you so much. It's always wonderful listening to you. It would be lovely to see you again in the New Year. If someone wanted to get in touch with you,

Breeder Steve (1:06:52)
Thank you, Hina

The C Word (1:06:59)
they subscribe to your newsletter?

Breeder Steve (1:07:00)
Yeah, we've got a newsletter at breedersteve.com. We're just in the process of switching from the old website to launching a new one. So depending when you see this, you may or may not be the new site already, but yeah, there's a newsletter sign up there regardless. And I believe the email, there's contact @breedersteve.com. And that gets through to my assistant who will...redirect you if needed and if there's something he can help you with he'll help you with it, you know, so that's that's it. You can find me raising hell on X too at @ breeder_steve , I believe.
it's great chatting with you. I hope you have a wonderful holiday season and a very happy new year.

The C Word (1:13:27)
Happy new year everyone. Thank you for joining us and we look forward to the next episode with Breeder Steve. Look after yourselves. See you soon. Bye.

Breeder Steve (1:13:45)
Take care.

The C Word Outro (1:13:47)