Breathe Smarter On Every Run

Your breathing is not just background noise. It is a lever you can pull to change your heart rate, calm your nervous system, and stay in control when a run starts to feel “spicy.”

I’m joined by Lynn Kinney, LCSW, longtime endurance athlete, and the steady voice behind our Mindful Moment Wednesdays. Together we unpack breathwork and meditation in a way that actually fits real life: quick two to three minute resets, guided options for racing thoughts, and a simple rule that makes breathing practices more effective for stress and recovery. We also talk heart rate variability (HRV) and wearables with a healthy dose of perspective so you can use your data without giving up your own intuition.

Then I take it straight to the roads and trails. We dig into nasal breathing as an easy-run and zone 2 intensity check, plus what to do when nasal-only breathing is not realistic because of allergies, congestion, or a deviated septum. You’ll learn practical, run-specific rhythmic breathing patterns (3-2 for easier efforts, 2-1 for hills and intervals), how to avoid panic breathing, and the form cues that make better breathing feel more natural: tall posture, relaxed jaw, soft shoulders, and a steady exhale.

If you want better endurance training, smoother pacing, and a stronger recovery routine, start with the one tool you always have with you. 

Subscribe, share this with a running friend, and leave a review so more everyday runners can find these simple breathing strategies.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Breath Matters

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome back to Extraordinary Strides, the podcast for everyday runners doing extraordinary things, one breath, one while, and one beautifully chaotic training week at a time. Today's focus is breath work. And before you say, Coach Christine, I have been breathing my entire life. I think I'm good. I promise we are going to take this beyond the obvious. So you're going to want to listen in. Because yes, breathing keeps us alive, gold star, but very important, how we breathe can also influence how we manage stress, how we recover, and how we settle our nervous system, which means it's all about how we respond when training or our life gets a little spicy. And today I'm going to be joined by Lynn Kenny, a friend of the show, of course, a licensed clinical social worker, avid triathlete, and the leader of our league Mindful Moment Wednesdays. Lynn brings that beautiful combination of science, compassion, athletic experience, and a let's not make this weird or intimidating energy. Today we're going to talk about meditation, breath work, HRV, which is quite the buzzword nowadays, nervous system regulation, and why these tools matter for runners and athletes. Then later in the episode, I'll take us into the practical run-specific side, how to use breath work during easy runs, hard efforts, hills, intervals, race moments, and what to do if nasal breathing feels impossible because of allergies or congestion or deviated septum decided to join you for your training plan. Research on slow, voluntary breathing has shown benefits for HRV, which is one way we can look at how flexible and responsive the nervous system is. James Nestor's book Breathe also helped bring mainstream attention to the idea that breathing is not just automatic, but trainable. We're gonna keep this grounded, practical, and of course, very runner-friendly. No need to become a monk on a mountaintop. Although honestly, some days that does sound like a solid recovery setting. So, my friend, take a deep breath, relax your shoulders, unclench your jaw, and welcome on in Lynn Kenny. Alright, my friends, I am excited to bring on officially Lynn. I'm excited to have you here because again, you bring such a unique mix of expertise and athletic experience, and you also always have a really great calming presence for our league members. They already know that from that mindful moment Wednesdays that you lead. So welcome Lynn.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

It's so good to be here. Um, I'm calling from my lunch break, so this is always a fun thing to do on lunch break. So we'll we'll have to practice some during this during the time we chat.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

I mean that's such a great way to kind of reset in the middle of the day as well. So I have questions about that in terms of how like what are the best times. But before we even get into that, while you're a friend of the podcast and you've been on many times before, just in case anyone doesn't um know you yet, maybe if you could share a little bit about who you are, what you do, and maybe your own experience with mindfulness.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I am a licensed clinical social worker and I am in private practice. I do therapy um with people. So um dealing with a lot of stress, anxiety, depression, and all of the other things that people deal with on the regular basis, um, relationships, goal setting, healthy lifestyle, all of all of the things. Um, so and I've been doing it um for longer than I would like to say, but it's it's been a hot minute. Okay. Um I went to grad school in the in the late 80s, early 90s. So you can extrapolate from there if you want to do the math. But uh so I've been doing that a while. And then on my own health journey, I started making some health changes right. I was as I was nearing 40, um, decided to make some big changes and just the lifestyle I was living. So I made some lifestyle changes as far as healthier habits with movement and not just sitting on the couch forever and um, you know, started with you know diet and walking, and you know, just kind of went from there to, you know, triathlons and mud runs and all the things. And uh so and that's been going since um I was looking it up the other day. I think my first triathlon was in 2009, and I officially believe that my total count is 44 triathlons. I don't know how many um of the other races because I I yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

Same, Lynn. I know I see it like it's definitely very popular on social media channels where people talk about how many races they've done. I'm like, I really don't know. Like I have a general idea of specifically the marathon distance, but for all the other distances, right, right, right. Zero idea. Um, well, so I kind of I'm curious what for you started to connect the dots more. Do you think that it's because of your career pathway kind of led you into thinking about how mindfulness and breath can impact your triathlon and your athletic performance or your lifestyle in general, or was it a little vice versa that you kind of wanted to dig a little bit deeper as to enhancing your performance through breath work? Kind of what what was first for you?

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Well, I think that for me, the the mindfulness and the breath work was um more of a base of mental wellness just in general. Um, I believe the athletic side was, you know, that was a different thing. And then because that was one of the things I was doing that was a good healthy thing, um, I've incorporated it into um the athletic side of me as well. But I feel like that probably was a practice that was a little bit more established over a longer period of time.

Make Mindfulness Fit Real Life

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Ooh, okay, good. Because I feel like it may be a little bit different for most of the folks that are listening in. They may have heard a lot about meditation or breath work and still not thinking that they are really sure if it will benefit them. So I'm kind of curious if maybe you could give me an idea of when runners think of meditation. I I always feel like they all conjure the same kind of scene where it's like some super serene mountaintop, it's quiet, there's a spa, there's like a trickling fountain in the background. And while real life is actually, you know, they've got responsibilities and to-do lists and deadlines. So I'm kind of curious how you feel like we can make meditation or breathwork practices feel a bit more approachable.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Well, for me, um, and and quite honestly, this is something that comes up on a regular basis when I'm working with um people who are are managing jobs and varying schedules and all of the things, right? Um we talk a lot about, you know, a lot of these practices are not um, it's not like necessarily going out for a run or something where you have to plan an hour of your time to do this thing. Um little short two to three minute resets um make a huge difference just um at the beginning of the day, you know, during any time you're on a break, you know, just taking two, two, three minutes, it just resets your nervous system and it calms all of those, all of those stressors and everything down so that whatever comes up next, you're better able to handle it. So it's not necessarily does it have to be uh sitting for a full 30 minutes or a full hour or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

So I'm curious for you, do you find that breath work was easier versus traditional meditation, or do you feel like uh guided meditation? What was an easy entry point for you personally? And then what do you generally recommend for other folks?

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Well, it depends. So I find that like the guided meditations or the imagery, guided imagery, those kinds of things typically I find better for racing thoughts or distracting thoughts, or when we're just up in our head, right? Um so there's that. When people are having physical symptoms, they're having pain, they're having like their heart feeling like it's beating too hard, or they're breathing too hard, or whatever, or stomach ache, stomach, you know, distress, any kind of physical symptoms. I find the physical aspect of the physiologically calming your body down actually helps a little better for that.

HRV Basics Without The Hype

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Okay, okay. I feel like for me personally, um I feel like guided meditation was definitely much easier because I feel like many of our runners may relate to this where it's like I have a thousand racing thoughts, and if you sit me down for to be quiet for a little bit, I'm gonna generally start thinking about my to-do list. But even before guided meditation, I think one thing that we can kind of also think about is our practice of moving, training, walking, running, cycling, any of those can be meditative or focused with breath work. They can kind of be intertwined. So I think that that's always something that people they see them as two completely different things. And I always wonder, can we start kind of maybe um immersing them a little bit, which is obviously what I want to talk about with you as well. But absolutely, I think that what we're seeing a lot now, I mean, you can't open up any social media without getting an ad or getting some kind of information about breath work and how I can impact our HRV and our nervous system. And there's a lot of really good practical science out there, and there's a lot of maybe myths out there as well. So maybe right out of the gate, can you kind of explain a little bit about what is HRV and should we be paying attention to it?

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Well, the I mean, a lot of the things, the things we want to be careful about with HRV is like for me, I have my Garmin. Um, and Garmin is on my wrist, and it is nice that it tracks that. But do understand that unless you're wearing the official, like all the little attachments that you would get from like a cardiologist, not gonna be as you know, it's not gonna be exact. So it's it's a guide, but it's not something um like I've had some HRV statuses that um have been, you know, like during a like I was telling, you know, talking to Christine earlier with the spring surprise with multiple days of getting up at one in the two in the morning and all over the place sleep patterns. My HRV status was not great that week. It was unbalanced. Um, but I actually asked my cardiologist about it because I'm like, but my HRV status says this. And he was like, well, I mean, that's good to be aware of and notice. And if it's telling you that you're unbalanced and you might need to focus on your rest, that that's probably not a bad thing to listen to. But if there is a real concern that if you if it stays unbalanced for a long time, obviously you're gonna want to have that checked actually by a doctor and then show it to your doctor because if they want to do actually accurate testing, if there's a problem, I think that is important because our heart's obviously sort of an important organ that we have.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Just just a little bit. I mean, I I think we've talked about this even like when we've met up for walks. We feel very similar in terms of um, we love technology around here and we love our metrics. Don't get me wrong. Clearly, both Lynn and I are wearing our garments as we speak. Um, love app watches, whoops, auras, all those devices. But I do think that both of you and I have a very similar belief. And we don't want anyone to kind of give up the autonomy of checking in with themselves and how they feel to their devices because uh that can be something that we see a lot. So learning to use it and seeing it as a guide and kind of just like checking in is always a great thing. Um, but we do know that HRV can impact our recovery and it can impact even how we feel with our athletic performance. So there is value to trying to kind of again enhance our HRV, knowing that whether it's again, it's just a guide. So I'm kind of curious if you could tell me like what does breath have to do with the nervous system? I mean, why are we even talking about breath work and HRV?

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Well, I don't know. Have you ever checked um like on your garment that tracks your heart rate? Right? Or whatever device you have. Um, I would just be curious, like, look at what your heart rate is. Okay. Like everybody do that. Just look at your current heart rate. Like mine is 7172. What's yours? I'm trying to find it. Okay, sorry. Um threw that on you last minute.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

That's okay. Um because I see, I don't even have it as like one of my primary functions because I don't necessarily I use it for more training, but not necessarily day-to-day. Um, gotcha. Okay. Well, likely, as I keep going through all of my different faces here, okay. We'll keep going with that.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Okay, so minus 71 currently. So what I want us all to do is we're just gonna take two. Well, let's just do there's so many different ways to do it, but I want everybody to just take two deep breaths. We're I will count and we'll um count, hold like breathe in for four. We'll do the box breath, breathe in for four, hold for four, um, then breathe out for four. So, okay, so you and we're gonna do that twice. So let's all breathe in for four, one, two, three, four, hold, two, three, four, out, two, three, four, hold, two, three, four, in, two, three, four, hold, two, three, four, out, two, three, four, and hold. Two, three, four. So and then check your heart rate again. Mine is down to sixty-two.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Wow, incredible. I still wasn't able to find mine, but I can tell you I feel much more relaxed. So intriguing to kind of feel like that just my shoulders even dropped.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Right. So in two breaths, I got my heart rate from 72 to 62.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Incredible.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

So that's that is why it matters, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Right, right. And when we're specifically training, and we know the value of being in zone two and even navigating that is something that seems very frustrating for runners, especially because it's it's again very trendy, training in zone two for endurance. Um, and it can be very frustrating because most people find that you mean sometimes going for a walk, well, they'll spike them past into zone three or zone four. Right. So I think that this is where, again, this is such a valuable piece and love that we're having this conversation. So you were able to show us in real time, and hopefully, folks that were able to kind of see along, you know, doing this at home or wherever they're at right now are able to see it as well. How do we do this and turn it into a practice? Something that kind of we incorporate as part of our everyday life and training.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Well, it's it's usually with any kind of habit, it's like we talk about with um, you know, I know you've mentioned it many times in our group trainings about starting small, start with a little thing. Um so if you're trying to get into a habit of the breath work, doing those two breaths like every time you get into the car before you start the car. Like if you're driving to work, for example, um, take those two breaths before you drive off. If you are working from home, as soon as you sit at your desk, take those two breaths before you turn on the computer. So you can just layer it, you know, you attach it to just things that you do repetitively through the day. Um, you know, every time you go to the bathroom, you could use that. That's downtime, right? Um so there's not, it's just something that you do um multiple times a day that you can just add those two breaths in. And then it just over time just becomes a routine.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

So I love that you're talking about habit stacking essentially. I personally have found my breath work is more consistent when I um have combined it with by making coffee in the morning, kind of sitting down, having that little bit of breath work, and then setting my intention for the day. That just works well for me in terms of it being consistent. And also, once I have that toolbox a little bit more developed, I find that if I have stress throughout the day, um, hopefully I kind of turn to that as one of the one of the things in my toolbox to kind of help to calm myself down. Not always, I'm not always fantastic at it. Um, I mean, granted, there's a lot of times where I need like an external reminder that it's really important to bring that into play. But I am curious if maybe you could tell us, are there, I know there's a billion types of breath work practices or even meditation practices. What would you say is a good beginner-friendly, let's get started with just an is it box breathing? Is it a different style?

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Well, it is um the box breathing is easy. So it's whatever's easiest for you, honestly. Um the biggest thing is that the exhale needs to not be shorter than the inhale. So either box breathing is even all the way around, which is fine, or you would want to like breathe in for four and out for six, that type of a thing. So anything where the out breath is the same as or greater than the in breath? It's fine. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

Gotcha. Okay, so we want to make sure that it's in breath is greater than or equal.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Equal or greater than less than. No, that's that less than, right. The in breath is less than or equal to the outbreath.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Why is that? Do we know? Is there something to do with like it releasing carbon dioxide? Is it something to do with kind of that is a good question?

SPEAKER_00 18:38

I I that I tend to some, yeah, some things I just accept. Um, okay. Um, I have not seen one other than I mean, because even the really fast breathing guy that you sent us those videos of, it was still equal. It was still in, out, equal. It was never breathe in. I don't know that I've seen a lot of breathe in slower and out fast.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Yeah. So uh what she's what Lynn's referring to is that oftentimes within the league, we'll have some breathwork focuses, and there's specifically uh a breathwork guru, if you will, or breathwork practitioner or whatever you want to call him, instructor. Um, and he has uh again different styles, and one is like an energizing, which is sometimes called like a fire breath, and it is a bit more of a stronger inhale and exhale to kind of really highly quickly deliver a bit more oxygen throughout your system. Um, so I don't know that I've noticed specifically that the inhale has been a less than because I I think I tend to always think of like box breathing as being again more so. So I'm gonna I'm gonna pay more attention now. So that's that's a good little tidbit to walk away from. So how do we get into for those that are listening and they're kind of almost thinking of tuning out because they're thinking this is just a little too woo-woo for me, or this isn't really gonna benefit my training? Kind of what are some thoughts that you have regarding that, or how what suggestions would you have for those folks that are kind of maybe of a little bit of healthy skepticism?

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Oh, I am right there with you. I am not a woo-woo fan. Okay, I know. One time, Christine, you sent me a guided meditation. I was just like, nope, not for me. I am not like wandering up with it was like something. If you were, let's say, taking certain kinds of substances, it might have been appropriate. But for me, that's but um that being said, you know, keeping in mind whatever when you're doing even a guided meditation, you can find something that is within what's meaningful to you. Right. When I've worked individually with people with guided meditations, I will find out, like I have done a guided meditation, I will ask them what's their favorite activity. I had somebody once want to go horseback riding, and so we did a guided meditation, horseback riding. I've done train rides, I've done walking in the snow, I've done um going to a favorite restaurant. It was a fondue restaurant with the cheese and stuff like that. So you can do whatever it is, or if it if you have a particular faith practice that you follow, you can use your um scriptures of whatever that faith practice is to meditate and to utilize that as imagery and things. So there's not a specific way that you have to do it. It can absolutely fit into whatever your belief system, your faith practice, or if you know, or just like your favorite restaurant is a fine one.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Yeah, no, I I love that. That sounds or maybe a day at the parks for us here Central Floridians that love like going to the parks or the beach. So again, it I do love finding something to connect it with. I think too, what I would say to folks that are listening in is that in any Practice that you have for physical movement, it is going to be highly connected to your breath. So if you really want to be able to make the most of the time that you're spending with your training, be it strength training or be it your runs or cycling or swimming, if you can connect it to your breath, you're likely going to find that it has a longer-term, stronger payoff, if nothing else, just that mind-body connection that can be rooted within, again, being mindful of our breath work, which I know for me, I was one of the individuals that I would kind of hold my breath quite frequently. And then I was always wondering, why does this feel so hard or why is it something that kind of is a bit of a challenge to get into zone two? So really taking that opportunity to kind of train outside of the actual physical movement. And then so I could easier connect it with something that I felt was really um viable or vital for me as I continued in my training. I'm curious though, we've kind of talked about some of the ways that we can connect to it. What are some like like what can people maybe use? Unless if again, they can contact Lynn and she can you can guide them through it. Like a train meditation if that's their jam. But what else are like items that people can use to help them get started?

Apps Tools And Breathing With Others

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Well, like I I was um showing Christine, I have a breath buddy that I keep in my my therapy office. And mine is called Bonnie the Bunny. Um, so it's very cute, it's squishy too. So it's like soft and squishy, and she has like three different settings. So you basically breathe, they're like three different colors. So the first color is a breathe in, the second color is a hold, and then the third color is a breath out. Um and then she's also a night light. So if you have kids, it's there, she's cute. But they come in different animals, but there are many of those. If you just look up breath buddy, if you want a visual, you can find apps on your phone that do that, that the circle will get bigger as you breathe in and then it will contract. A lot of the mindfulness apps will have different things of that nature, um, where it's just a circle that you breathe with the circle. Um, a a really fun one practically to do as well is to do it with somebody else. Ooh. Okay. That tell us. That is that is particularly well, um, you know how like if a person, let's say a very close friend or partner or whoever is upset and or anxious or whatever, and and we all know that telling somebody who's upset to calm down does not ever calm anybody down. Okay. But just holding their hands or hugging them if you're very close and breathe with them.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

You can breathe together.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

For me, with my love language being physical touch. If you guys wanted to hold my hand and help me breathe, and I am down with that. Like that's automatically gonna help me relax. But yes, I could see where that would be really such a great way of kind of meeting somebody where they're at and actually giving them a practical tool right then and there versus something that may feel more judgmental, like, oh, just calm down, or it's really not that big of a deal.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Right. But but even for um, oh, maybe next time we do a group run, we can all just hold hands in a circle and breathe together and do a breath circle. That would be fun.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

I think that's a great way to kind of warm it on up a little bit, or maybe even to set our intention before we go out for our workout. But I do think that, I mean, again, this is something that if you are getting stressed on your run, I this is something that I often do when I'm pacing an athlete um is to kind of have them focus on their breath because we tend to get into our head about maybe all the metrics of our pace or our even our cadence and get out of the just returning to like the most basic of all of kind of relaxing into our breath. So phenomenal. I love that. I'm a huge fan for the record, Lynn. I use Insight Timer. Um, a couple of reasons. One, it has a free modality that for the most part, you can use a lot of these really great um practices through Insight Timer. Sometimes they have some fun challenges. They do have a premium, but I also feel like it connects you to like uh breath work or meditation practitioners from all over the globe. Um but I think you mentioned like your breathing buddy, which is so on brand for you to have a named Bonnie the Bunny. Um, but also um I think there's Calm. And so YouTube is what I usually curate.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

I mean, because it's free as well. Right. I use Headspace, but that's partially because that's a benefit of our workplace. So I get the premium version for free. It is a nice one, but it's I don't know how much it costs if you don't, if it's not part of your work benefits. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

So I think I mean, again, in investing financially into some of these things may be worthwhile, but there are so many uh really good tools out there to start at a lower entry point of like free that people could look into and then maybe see if I gravitate towards something else.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

But very quick. I do know I do know Headspace actually has several that are movement, like it has a mindfulness walk one. Yeah, that's so there are some things that are movement oriented in that one.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

I love those for the record. I whenever I do like a guided mindfulness walk, it's always interesting to kind of really so often we go out for a walk as kind of a cross-training. So we're focused on it being more of a like how much how far we can go, or maybe even how many calories we can burn. And then kind of having it as a mindfulness walk lets you really kind of see your neighborhood from a different perspective. So it does sound like I'm getting into a lot of woo-woo stuff, but I promise it's because I really have seen the value of how this translates into optimizing performance as well. Um, and then it also I think allows for a good foundation for mental resilience, which we know as an athlete, if you're if you're going to ever really tackle and continue to tackle workouts or races or challenges, you're gonna have to really work on that resiliency because it's not gonna always go our way. So, can you tell me a little bit about like that connection to breath work and mindfulness to resilience for athletes?

SPEAKER_00 27:57

Absolutely. I mean, well, for one, that kind of goes back to the HRV that we were talking about earlier of having your heart strong and build immunity. I mean, how many of us um and maybe people that are on that I'm talking to and looking at on the screen right now have recently dealt with getting sick after uh a challenge. So, you know, it happens. We get in these crowded environments, our immune system is it gets kind of stressed with, you know, with, and that's what the HRV does plan. But the resiliency comes when you are able to keep that um more in a stable pattern. It helps build your ability to fight um, you know, illnesses and things that are going around and whatnot. So it helps with that. On the mental side, that resiliency, that like I was saying earlier about doing constant reset little short resets throughout the day, um, rather than waiting for the stress to get so much that you notice it that you need to do it. Um, it just keeps you at a more steady pace so that you're more able to handle those stressors in the first place.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Yeah, I agree. I also really like that it kind of connects a bit with self-talk, which I think is a big one for a lot of athletes. Um let's be honest. Most runners, and I'm sure tri-athlethes, Lenny could tell me, have a bit of a type A personality type, maybe a little bit hard on themselves. So I feel like that connection with Ruth Burke and Mindfulness allows you to start that foundation of having a more positive or at least a more constructive self-talk uh soundtrack there. So um, I'm gonna ask a question that I think is is pretty foundational, maybe even a bit simplistic. But why is the pause that we take in doing these things so powerful?

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Well the pause, like the pause to take the time to do the breath work. Well, it's it's like anything that's foundational. Yeah. Um, things that we do, uh it's breath is the life. Like with if we're not breathing, then we're dead.

Resilience Gratitude And Quiet Training

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Yeah. I mean that right there. That is it's that simplistic, it's that foundational. I think also what I hear when I feel like people are willing to take this time to focus on something this um foundational to be a bit more willing to practice it, is that you're also saying that I'm willing to invest in myself a bit of extra time. Sometimes where we honestly think that in our days, in a 24-hour day, there's just not even two minutes for ourselves. And having a way to connect it kind of does allow you to say, maybe today's not the day where I can do a full-hour run, but I can give myself two minutes to just focus on my breath and have a little bit of my meat time. Okay, my friends. Before I release you back into the wild, before you're actually able to go eat your lunch, give me an idea if there is any takeaways that you really want to make sure that you leave our athletes, our runners that are listening in right now about breath work.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Well, as I said, you know, how many of us have heard things about, you know, people who talk about just appreciating the little things of life when the world is chaotic, every you know, there's all of these things going on around us. Um, just even appreciating that we have breath, you know, it's like, oh, I have breath. So sometimes part of it is a at as a gratitude kind of a piece of being thankful for the breath that you have. Um, and it can just okay, there's chaos and everywhere else, but I can breathe. I am able to breathe, you know. I know a lot of times in the running circles we talk about um, you know, run today because other people wish they could be here running. Um and that type of thing. And I think that's that's so valuable to have. Exactly. Other thing, just as a side note, um, if you really want to have some help with the breath work, you know, sign up for a triathlon or do your cross-training in the pool because you kind of have to breathe correctly to be able to swim, because you know, for obvious reasons. Um you just have to because you can't breathe in when your you know head is under the water, so you have to be in a pattern of breathing. So it is a really good place to practice. Plus, um, just for those of you who don't know, if you do a triathlon, you don't get to have music, you don't get to have technology on the race. You have to just be with you. So that goes back to what you talked about with the self-talk piece. That is actually a thing you practice. Um, I think a lot in triathlon, more so than I've seen in running. I feel like sometimes in running we prefer to be to be distracted versus staying with our thoughts. And sometimes you need to sit with your thoughts. And a long run is a good time to do that.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

You're giving you're speaking my love language, especially like I'm thinking, people are probably listening and they're thinking, absolutely not. We have to be distracted at all times during a run. And I know that when I first started running, that was my mindset and mentality as well. And it took me a long time before I started to be okay with kind of just focusing on my breath and being alone in my thoughts. And now I find it as such a welcome pause. So I love that the triathlon world is one of the few places that still really kind of honors that. Um, because as we've seen in the racing world, that's not necessarily the case. So kind of that's a great little reminder. Maybe for today, after we're done here, you guys can just take a little moment before switching on another podcast or an audiobook or a music and just being alone with you, your thoughts, and your breath.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

I love, I love that idea. I think that's a wonderful idea.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

Well, Lynn, thank you so much as always for joining me. I can't wait to have you back on the pod. I know we have a lot of fun things that are gonna be in the works. I can't wait to kind of tell people about that. But I appreciate you taking time to talk us through our breath and our gratitude.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

You are very welcome. It's always lovely to be here.

Rhythmic Breathing For Effort Control

Allergies Congestion And Deviated Septum

Hills Intervals Races And Run Walk Resets

Commit To One Simple Breath Practice

SPEAKER_02 34:35

As always, a huge thanks to Lynn for helping us understand the nervous system side of breath work because this is where the magic really starts to click. Now I want to take us from the chair and that little corner of relaxation, and let's take it right into your run. Because I know that this is the one thing that you are really tuning in for is how do I truly implement this on my run and what does it look like? Well, during our easy runs, nasal breathing can be a really helpful intensity check because if you cannot breathe mostly through your nose during what's supposed to be an easy run, which are our bass runs, our again our conversation pace runs, our recovery runs, if you're having difficulty with breathing in and out through your nose, it may be a sign that the effort is creeping up a little too high. Now, again, we know nasal-only breathing is not the only way to actually implement the full honing in and mindfulness of our breath because there may be some issues where you may not be able to. But research on nasal-only breathing during low intensity endurance training suggests that it may create some physiological changes such as lower ventilation and breathing frequency. And it doesn't always keep athletes from drifting into higher intensities. So the biggest takeaway is that it's a tool to use. So nasal breathing can be useful, of course, but to brain, body, watch, and perceived effort still need to be part of this conversation. So what you're looking for in those easy runs with your breathing is can I breathe quietly? Can I keep my jaw soft? Am I relaxing my shoulders? And can I start easier on this run and this pace than my ego wants? So for our warm-ups, we definitely want to try to start with nasal breathing if it's available to us and keep that as our focus for the first five to ten minutes, keeping relaxed, letting our breath set the pace instead of letting the pace bully our breath. And then, of course, you can also really be intentional and mindful of it during your cooldowns, walking until your breathing settles, using a longer exhale, and letting your body know that the work is complete. Think of this as your breath is your built-in pace coach. It may not upload to Strava, but it definitely has some really strong opinions and some strong indicators of how your run is going. Now, with that, there is a little bit of a rhythmic breathing with form that you can start to pay more attention to and do know that it's gonna vary a little differently than what we learned from Lynn. Lynn's focus was how we can really relax our breath and that to help us with our recovery, to help us with stress management, to help us maybe even to feel more energized. Here with our rhythmic breathing while on the run, what we're looking to do is maximize our oxygen intake that's going to help to fuel our muscles and help us to be able to go longer, further, sometimes even stronger or faster. So rhythmic breathing helps you create that smoother pattern instead of getting into a panic breath. And this is definitely going to help so that your brain also kind of calms down a little bit and doesn't feel like it's being chased. When you do get into that panic breathing, it automatically ramps up your level of feeling that perceived effort going higher, your intensity. So you want to try to keep it rhythmic and within your control. So three to two breathing pattern is going to be really helpful for easy to moderate efforts. Those are again our recovery, our easy conversation pace, or even our base building paces. So then RP effort of three to five, you're looking to inhale for three foot strikes and exhale for two foot strikes. Example your inhale, inhale, inhale, so left, right, left, and then exhale, exhale, left, right. This gives the breath a rhythm that can help prevent that shallow, choppy upper chest breathing that shows up when effort or anxiety rises. What we're looking for for harder efforts is two to one breathing. Inhale for two foot strikes and exhale for one foot strike. This works really well for intervals, hills, tempo segments, or even the final stretch of a race when things are starting to feel a little spicy. So here with that two to one breathing pattern, we are looking at that RPE effort. Generally, you're starting to get into six, seven, eight, maybe even a little bit of nine. You may find that if you're getting that upper, upper echelon, like the nine and the ten, you may need to change to a one-to-one where you're really kind of focusing on still keeping it rhythmic, still keeping it very honed in, still pulling in oxygen. Once you start to get into these higher intensities, it also may be that you naturally, even if you tend to be very adept at being able to use your nose primarily for breathing in and out, when you get into these harder efforts, you may find that you naturally open your mouth to allow you to pull in more oxygen that's available to you. However, it still needs to be done in a way that connects you to the rhythm so you're not getting into that panic mouth breathing. And a way to really focus on that is to focus on our form. I know you're thinking, you're asking for me to do too much. I have to count my feet, I have to focus on my breath. So let your form kind of be a primary foundational guide because it will help your breathing become more natural in its pattern. So you're thinking breathing low, not loud, and by that meaning breathing lower into your lower rib cage, into your belly, letting your ribs expand, keeping your shoulders down and back to really open that chest. This is where you want to make sure that that tall chest, those really tall, proud head as well, because you don't want your neck to essentially start to kind of look down at your feet and kind of close off the oxygen that you're bringing in. So keeping your jaw soft and just relaxing into the breath. If you are folded over, if you start to hunch over, if you start to tense, or you start running with your shoulders becoming your earrings, your breathing mechanics are going to struggle. That's why you're gonna hear me so often when I'm coaching to ask you to please pull back those shoulders down and back, open up that chest, keep that chin parallel to the ground, the pavement, and of course, just to bring that breath in. It's even I even love when I do this when I'm here, not on a run. I just automatically have a little bit of a form check. So it's good to even think of this maybe as a reset, specifically on those longer runs, every half to a mile, just kind of reset your form to let you be tall, soft, relaxed with steady rhythm and controlled inhale and exhale. The goal is not to feel like you're a serene woodland creature during mild repeats, but the goal is to stay regulated through your body, knowing that we're working hard, but we're not in danger. This is something that I have control over. Now let's talk about something that comes up quite frequently for athletes, myself included, my friends. You heard me espouse the benefits of nasal breathing, especially for conversation pace or recovery or easy paces. But realistically, I know that there's things that are going to come up, specifically for myself, allergies, allergy season, but there could be congestion, there could be deviated septums, there could be just issues with real life breathing on a day-to-day basis that impact how we breathe on our run. So again, while nasal breathing is helpful, not everyone has equal access to it at all the runs. So, you know, be proud of your nose for what it's doing, even if it's a little stuffier at times. The nose warms, humidifies, and it filters air, which can matter for athletes, especially in the cold, dry, or allergen-heavy environments. But during exercise, as intensity rises, many athletes naturally shift toward using both the nose and the mouth, as I mentioned before. And again, a 2025 study in well-trained cyclists and triathletes, triathletes, noted that nasal breathing is preferred at rest, but as ventilation demand increases, the body often transitions to oral nasal breathing. So, again, there is nothing wrong with allowing, especially as that intensity of bringing in more oxygen through both your nose and your mouth. But let's talk about how we can try to maximize all of the benefits. For runners with allergies specifically, I'm gonna ask you to check your pollen count outside before you go out for your outdoor runs. If it's a little bit higher, if you know it's a little bit triggering for you, it may be a perfect day for a treadmill run. If you can run after it rains when possible, that's always fantastic as it helps to minimize and dampen a bit of those air pollen that you may encounter. Now, again, a lot of these are environmental and we can't control it, but if you can avoid dry or windy routes when symptoms are high, that's really helpful. Again, for my friends with allergies, you're gonna want to warm up a little bit longer. You're gonna want to start a little easier. Use sunglasses or a hat if pollen irritates your eyes, trying to keep that minimally off of your face. Once my eyes start to itch and burn, it automatically starts to impact my nasal passages. I start to get a little snottier, if you will. Um, my nose gets a little runnier, it becomes a little bit harder for me to focus. So, again, keeping all of this in mind that they're also interconnected and impacts our run. Um, if you can, this is something that's really big for us high allergen uh runners is rinse off or change clothes after your high pawn runs. I come in, I immediately after a run, after I'm done stretching, I will throw my clothes right into the wash and jump into the shower just to help with minimizing the allergens that I bring into my house. Again, if you haven't touched base with a doctor or an allergist and you do know that you're suffering quite a bit and it's impacting your energy levels or your day-to-day and your athletic training, please do check in with them to see if there's maybe an allergy plan that would work best for you. I know I've found a pretty good routine that for the most part tends to work really well for me, including a sinus rinse. So I am a really big fan of a sinus rinse that I utilize during those high allergen seasons. I actually have started using them before and after really big race weekends as well, or throughout the race weekends, just to kind of help clear and keep everything a little bit more moist so that keeps me hopefully have a higher immunity. Um it worked for a majority of them. I can't say it worked that well for my last race weekend, but for the majority of them, I do feel it does really help. Now let's talk about runners with deviated septums or chronic congestion. What I want you to think about runners, if you're under this category, is think of phrasing it a little differently in your mind. Use nasal breathing when it's available to you instead of trying to breathe through your nose no matter what. I know you may hear those cues quite frequently, you may hear a lot of refluencers talking about only nasal breathing. But if you're again, there's not one size fits all when it comes to our running, there's not one size fits all as to what's best for our breathing. So again, if you know that you already have some nose structural differences or if you have that chronic congestion, it may mean that you need to focus on trying to utilize your nose but incorporating some mouth breathing. Potentially looking at it as trying to maybe focus more on nasal breathing if it's available during those warm-up or walk breaks or cooldowns, but utilizing your mouth to incorporate and help with that breath and oxygenating during the run portions or during harder efforts. Thinking of those longer exhales again to help regulate effort. So here it may look a little differently than the rhythmic breathing of someone else who may be doing it. So again, learn to tune into your body, really learn to figure out what's best for you. But one thing that we do know is that your form, no matter what style of breathing you're gonna do, is going to help. So really having that tall posture, elongating your spine, keeping that chest open, not closing your airway by keeping your chin up as well. And if you continue to have issues, if you're just finding that every single run, every single workout is a bit of a challenge of getting your breath under control, I am gonna say this is time, call your doctor. Just check in, see if maybe there's other conditions or things that you can do to help treat that helps provide you with a bit more oxygen from day to day. You likely have a lot more energy as well. A couple of things that you could think of that really you should be really aware of checking with your doctor. If you're experiencing wheezing, chest tightness, dizziness, if you're unusually short of breath, or if your breathing symptoms feel really out of proportion to the effort, again, these aren't mindset issues, these are things that you want to check with your doctors about. Now, before we close, we're going to talk about a few more breathing patterns you can focus on. I want you to mainly focus on those conversation pays, keeping it nice and even. But if you are looking for, you feel like you've got that in your wheelhouse already, you feel pretty comfortable with it, you could have a conversation with somebody or maybe sing along to a song, and you're getting into more advanced speed work or strength work with your runs, there are other cues you can think of specifically for hills. You're gonna think of shortening your stride, lifting your chest, exhaling with purpose, keeping your hands relaxed, and of course, looking a few steps ahead. Here you're kind of wanting to continue that strong and steady, especially on those uphills with intervals. What I find a lot of athletes will do during any hard effort is that there's a tendency to want to hold your breath. Well, let's not do that. Let's keep it controlled, let's find the rhythm before we find the speed, exhaling fully, and you're thinking at when you're trying to get into more interval work or speed work, think about settling into it before you surge into it. Um, during race discomfort, if you find that you're challenged during a longer run or even a race, you want to just again reset your posture, relax your jaw, drop those shoulders. Dropping those shoulders are gonna make you instantly feel like you are more in control of your breath, like you are not panicking. So just focus on finding one breath cycle at a time. Breathe first should be your mantra during that portion. Now, walk breaks for my run walkers. I love me some run walking. Use those walk breaks as breath resets. Inhale gently, exhale longer, again, more of a recovery mindset during that time frame. Standing tall, returning with control, thinking about it as recovering here on purpose. There's so much beauty within that time frame, and especially utilizing a run walk. I think too, if you have had difficulty with breathing for sustained durations, if you give yourself the permission to beautifully incorporate run walk into your running, you're gonna find that your breathing patterns become a little bit more manageable, a little bit easier for you to kind of transition through all those different efforts. Okay, my friend, again, what I would like your takeaways for today to be is that breath work is not just one more thing to add to a very busy life. It's something that you already have with you that's very easy for you to do day to day. You can use it before a run to kind of set your intention, you can use it during easy runs to check your effort, you could use it during hard efforts to stay steady and in control, using it after your workout to help you again to start that recovery process and helping your body downshift. You can use it right in the middle of a podcast recording because I've been saying a lot of words. But you can use it when there's stress, nerves, or self-doubt starting to get loud. You can use it to energize. So breath work really is such a beautiful tool to incorporate as an athlete who's looking to continue to optimize, to get stronger, to get better, and day-to-day, just to really learn how to stay in control of your energy, your mood, and your like presets. It doesn't have to be perfect. If nasal breathing works for you, awesome. If you need to use your nose and your mouth, great. If your allergies are acting like they paid the raise registration fee, adjust. Again, it's all about if your breath starts to get a little bit out of control or a little messy, that doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. It just means that you're working hard and that with some little mindful awareness adjustments, you can bring it back into a pace and into a breath that feels like you are in control. So, I'm gonna ask you right here and now to make a commitment to do a little bit of breath work, especially before you're run and set your intention. My friend, I want to thank you so much for joining me here today. I'd love for you to give me some feedback as some of the breathing patterns that you have found, some of the breath work that you're using. Let me know if you feel like it's a little bit of a challenge. And if you like today's episode and you feel like you have a friend that could benefit from this, please forward it on, share, leave a review, and as always, join us in the private Facebook group for the Stride Collective. We'd love to see you there. And I'm gonna ask you to keep breathing, keep showing up, and keep taking those extraordinary strides.