EP03: Power and Influence

How can a leader turn power into influence? In this episode, you'll learn about the different social bases of power. Stay tuned to learn how to leverage seven sources of power to lead effectively.

Key Takeaways To Listen For

• What does it take to have legitimate power?
• Is coercive power effective in changing the behavior of others?
• How does being an expert enable you to lead
• The simplest definition of referent power
• How the environment can influence people

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Transcript

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Dr. Nate Salah

[00.00]
My advice is become that expert. If you want to have a social base of power in expertise, become an expert with a high-value opportunity to solve a problem for someone or a group in a very specific area.

[00:17]
Hello, my friend and welcome to this third episode of A Call to Leadership. We're focusing on a six-part course, a series that really lays a foundation for leadership. And I'm so glad you're here with me. So glad to join you on your journey as you progress through becoming the leader who is transformational, serving, the leader who is aiming to reach your potential. If you haven't listened to the first two episodes, the first one laying a foundation on what is leadership and why is your leadership important? And then the second is aiming for greatness. Aiming for that high call, leaving nothing on the table, giving your very best. I call it, the way I put it is blazing into heaven, giving everything for a greater cause to myself.

[01:08]
And so here we are on episode three. And if you're thinking about the title of this episode, Power Into Influence, you probably have some preconceived thoughts on power. Oftentimes we think of power in the negative as though it's power-wielding and that it is coercive. And there is a relationship on some levels in some ways with that, but that's not all power is. In fact, when we think of leaders with power, we think an abuse of power often. And that's part of even the reason why we're doing this show is because there's a crisis in leadership, and there is abuse in power, and there is real pain that people have through leadership that is toxic and cancerous. And in that what I would consider an anathema to progress and wholeness and health.

[01:04]
And so that's why you and I are standing in the gap so that we can begin to turn the tide on leadership that matters. And we're not the only ones. There's many of us, many of us who are sharing this high cost, this high cause of leading and serving well, so we're not alone.

[02:25]
So what is power? Well, one of my colleagues once said that power produces influence, and leadership is the capacity to leverage that influence into action. So you can listen to that again. You can rewind it. It's such an important way to explain it and I think it's so helpful.

[02:46]
So power and influence go hand in hand. And if you recall, from our first episode, we talked about how influence was an essential aspect of leadership. And so leaders are influencers. We are change agents. We envision a better future state, which is a change in our own mind and then we communicate that and gather others to join us in a worthy cause that is greater than ourselves. That's the heart of influence, but it begins with power.

[13:19]
And again, you know, power isn't necessarily negative. It's neutral. Now there are those who are power wheelers, and actually, it was this scholar, James McGregor burns that called Adolf Hitler. He didn't even classify Hitler as a leader. He refused to do that. He called leader a power wielder. Now you can fall in different camps on whether you believe that Hitler was a leader. He was just an ineffective and a poor leader, or he was a power wielder alone. Of course he did wield power and we're gonna talk that wielding of power in a coercive manner, but there's all different ways that we can talk through what power is and how it produces influence so that we can have more tools and understand the mechanics of how power than generates the influence that us as leaders we can leverage and use ethically with a moral compass to affect change that's healthy, that's beneficial that ultimately leads us to a better future state.

[04:26]
And so that's part of the leadership model. As we begin to understand power, I'm gonna encourage you to remember to use it wisely. Use it for good to help. And because now we've got more responsibility with it, and you've heard the saying power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's Sir Lord Acton said that many years ago.

[04:51]
And so, but power doesn't have to corrupt. Corruption is a choice. We don't have to choose to corrupt the beauty of influence and the magnificence of how to influence others, to share in a vibrant and thriving, and healthy future. So we can choose to act in obedience to the great call of aiming for greatness and serving others. 

And so there's a love involved with that. And we'll talk about love later, but anyhow, as you can see, if you're watching this, let all that you do be done in love is the verse behind me in my home office. We'll talk a lot about leading in love. It's a heart of mine, but in the meantime, let's continue on what is power.

[05:22]
A great way to talk through what power is and how to identify it and utilize it is through a study that was conducted many years ago in the 50s, by a couple scholars, French and Raven. And they came up with what they called their social bases of power. 

[06:01]
And so there are five elements to this, and I'm gonna go through all five elements and explain them and explain how we can utilize them. And what'll happen is as you begin to hear them, you'll begin to recognize them because you are likely already using some of these elements in your own daily leadership walk, whether even as a leader or as a follower, as one being influenced by others in social settings.

[06:25]
And so let's start with the very first social base of power, which is what's called legitimate power. And that's the power of authority based on a title or a rank. So this would be a supervisor. This would be apparent. This would be someone in authority that has a legitimate authority based on their skills. Now you say, well, my boss isn't very skilled. Well, we can talk about that later because sometimes when you don't perceive that that legitimate power is in fact has legitimacy, the effect of the power can be reduced and the perception makes a huge impact on the followers level of engagement in terms of influence itself. So that's an important distinction. I'm glad you're thinking about that.

[07:17]
This legitimate power is a power based on, again, the title, the rank, but in general, your manager or a leader in a, maybe your, a pastor at church, or perhaps a police officer or a doctor based on their title, you expect them to have a certain level of capacity of skill of knowledge. That is important to conducting whatever desired end state that you need. For example, it's, let's consider it your manager. Your manager understands the mechanics of how to do your job and the role as a whole to lead to a certain place. And so, out of your following of your manager's instruction, you believe that your manager's legitimate power in that role and that title has a positive effect on the end result so you comply and you decide I'm going to listen to this manager because they have an understanding and they are moving toward the better future state. And so it's a choice. It's always a choice, whether or not we on the receiving end accept the power’s value toward our end goal or not. You as a leader, you as your own title and rank have legitimate power. Whether again, you could be a supervisor, you could be a mentor. That title gives you legitimate power.

[08:54]
Now the second and third power sources, you're very familiar with. The second one is called reward power, and they kind of go hand in hand. Whereas a manager can reward you. A teacher can reward you. A police officer can reward you perhaps by not giving you a speeding ticket. And so on and so forth. So the reward power is another social base of power and it's essentially just that. It's some kind of benefit for you. So what does a reward look like? So in an employment environment, a reward could be paid time off. It could be a promotion, could be a salary increase. It could be a day to go to the spa. If you're having a difficult day, you say, wow, I wanna work for that company. At home, as a parent, a reward can be a snack after a day of education and going to school, it could be a trip, a family trip. It could just be spending more time with the family. It could be a new bicycle, a number of rewards, and rewards have power. So they are a power source.

[09:59]
So we have legitimate power and we have reward power and you say, okay, I get it. I know this one. It's good to think about it though. Think about the rewards that we can provide to followers based on achievement, based on milestones, based on small victories. A reward doesn't have to be tangible either. It can be an intangible reward. And sometimes the intangibles are just as if not more valuable than the tangible rewards. The transactional rewards, right? These are transformational possibly rewards. And we we'll talk a lot about that later.

[10:31]
So what's an intangible reward? Well done. It could be an word of affirmation. It could be a pat on the back. It could be simply an acknowledgement among a group. So there's all different kinds of ways that we can also give intangible rewards. Our time, our undivided attention can certainly be an intangible reward and we'll have a great interview episode on undivided attention, which is so important in terms of leadership. So that's reward power, which can turn into influence by the perceived value of that reward. That's another factor in this is that the follower has to perceive a value in that social base of power. And as we progress through these, you'll, you'll really begin to understand and see it.

[11:19]
The third, stay with me. The third is coercive power. This is probably the most common power base is the power to punish if you will. So back to that coercive power and that's what it's called coercive power. The police officer, right. I get the red lights come on and I'm driving down the highway and I pull over and I'm like, oh my goodness, I'm gonna get a ticket. Right. And so the police officer has the power to punish you if you will, for disobeying the law. And so sometimes what we do is we won't speed because we don't wanna get a ticket. Right. So there becomes influence that the police officer has, because we don't want to be punished. Same thing at home. At home we probably use it more than anything else, especially with children and in the workplace too, threaten to fire people, threaten to demote them, threaten to reduce their salary, all kinds of threats of punishment. And so those are very easy to use, but I don't know that they're always the most effective as far as the social basis of power because they also require surveillance. In other words, they require us to survey and witness at least on some level when there is a break in the direction that we've attempted to influence in. In other words, if you've got a child at home who has defied you for some reason and said, you know what? I'm not gonna take the trash out mom. I'm 15 years old. I'm not gonna do it. I don't wanna do it. And you can punish me. And so you think, okay, well, what kind of punishment can I administer? And so, first of all, that punishment may not have a value. So it might not reach that goal.

[13:12]
Maybe a better base of power is to ask a question, why don't you wanna take the trash out? And so perhaps the reward isn't enough, right? Maybe there's a thought like, you know what? My parents don't really care. Maybe they're disengaged. Maybe they don't see that I've been doing it diligently, or maybe they're just not even hanging out with me at all. So I'm rebelling in this way. There's other things that may be going on that we can use a different base of power to enact and realize and reach that desired change. So, we'll talk about this as well, but that's just one example.

[13:50]
So coercive power is a real base of power and it's not that it's always bad either. Sometimes coercive power is necessary and all of these power bases can work hand in hand. It's a matter of us being judicious about when to use which power base.

[14:08]
So the next power base you'll know this one really well, is expert power. This is power based on your level of expertise and that power then can become influence if again, the follower perceives the value of it, and the value is high enough for the follower to take action. So I'll give you a, an easy example. When I run my accounting and advisory firm, when someone comes into my office and we wanna talk about the accounting relationship, then they generally would take my advice because of my level of expertise on how to save on taxes or avoid an audit or things like that, or when it comes to the consulting and the coaching. When I have a student who I'm coaching through their business or their family challenges, they will then understand that my level of expertise has a high value. So then they will take action and it creates influence, same thing with the doctor. You go to see the doctor and the doctor says that you have this illness, but if we take these steps based on my expertise, then we can mitigate, we can even possibly eliminate the illness. And what do you do? Well, if you perceive that the doctor has the competence and the character, and there's a high value to that expertise, then the doctor has influence and that influence creates a change in you to take action and have the procedure and participate. That's how power works from an expert standpoint. So that's why we rely on experts and experts have a tremendous amount of power when we have a problem we need to solve.

[15:55]
So my advice is become that expert. If you want to have a social base of power in expertise, become an expert with a high value opportunity to solve a problem for someone or a group in a very specific area. My expertise from a leadership perspective, I've spent my life studying entrepreneurial leadership, visionary leadership. In fact, here's my dissertation right here. I keep it handy just in case I need to reference it. It's almost 500 pages, right? So, I've become a subject matter expert. In fact, when you work on your dissertation, it's very daunting, but your professors say by the time you're finished, you'll become the world's foremost expert in a very narrow slice of scholarship, the foremost expert. So when it comes to the visionary leadership, as far as essentials with Milton Hershey, Walt Disney and Steve jobs, and how they shared in authoring and making a vision real,  I am the world's foremost expert. Nobody cares about those three in that relationship as much and nobody studied that at that length between those three individuals and that subject matter of visionary leadership than I have.

[17:09]
So it's not boasting, it's simply a matter of your passion and your expertise, and then what it is. It's being able to share it with others so that when people have questions about that, they can come to you and your power base, that expert power base will then manifest itself that it will create influence. So that's number four.

[17:32]
Number five, one of my favorites is called referent power. So it's kind of a quirky word, but what it means is the power of your, affability, your likableness, your attractiveness, and people want to emulate you because they find that you have a certain persona that is worthy to become influential in their lives. So referent power would be, wow, this person is so kind. I want to be kinder. This person has such great patience. I want to have greater patience. This person is so wise based on their life experience and their ability to step back and reflect. I'd like that too. This person has incredible referent power and that power then produces influence in others.

[18:23]
So when I have conversations with my family members, I think, you know, how can I affect change? Especially in the younger generation, based on the referent power, not necessarily based on my legitimate power, not necessarily based on my reward or my coercive power or my expert power. Those are important, but those aren't the only pieces. The referent power is the power that, wow, this person lives a life that I want to live.

[18:57]
Now, you may know someone like that in your own life, who has a certain aura or a presence about them that you draw to, and there may be people who you don't that you know of from afar. Think of an easy example, as like a mother Teresa, someone with such great charity in their lives, and you strive to have a deeper level of charity in your own life. And wherever that might sit that's referent power, because it actually causes influence in our own lives. And so a Nelson Mandela, and we talked about in the first episode, a Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. that ability to succinctly, transparently communicate a better future state.

[19:44]
So think about people in your own life who you draw to and who have referent power, and then you can better understand that concept as well and utilize that referent or that power of affability with others as well in certain situations.

[20:02]
Well, that's five, but I'm gonna give you two more. I'm gonna give you two bonus bases of power and there's more and more. And well, that's the beauty of this podcast is that we'll trickle them in through the episodes and you're gonna get so much real value on how to create leadership influence. The sixth one is power, what we call information power and that's power of just that it's information. So, one example of that is years ago, before we had fancy phones with, uh, GPS and ways to get around, we actually had to do something called stopping for directions. It's so archaic. Right? So you would go into a gas station because you were lost and you'd ask the attendant, I'm trying to find highway Z and I know it's somewhere around here because I'm trying to get to the orchard so we can pick peaches. And the attendant says, oh, oh yeah, well, you passed it. You gotta go back about three miles. And then when you see the red barn, it's kind of broken down, make a left on that road. It's gonna take you to the peach farm. Now you decide, I have to believe this person and do your due diligence in that moment, if that information is useful and valid to you. Remember we said, it's a perception. Power is, is really it's the perception before we reach influence, then you take action and they influence you to go that route. And hopefully they were using that power, that influence power, which is information power, ethically, responsibly, morally to lead you to the right place. And that's an example, it's a great example of power of information.

[21:51]
So if you have specialized information, that's essential and needed in that moment for whoever it is, then that power then becomes influenced for change. So this is great in social media. This is great in content management. This is great in business. This is great in family to have information that's of value that has utility and to be able to share that information with others. So you see that all the time of course, on the internet, you watch a YouTube show. Someone has some information that you need right at the moment. So YouTube is great for if your car or some aspect to your house or plumbing and you need something right away. I can't tell you how many times I've not been able to get into a vehicle. And I had to watch a YouTube video to help me to figure it out. That is information power. Now of course, is there expertise some cases? Yes. Some cases, no, they're not necessarily experts, but they know that very specific answer and that's power of information.

[22:54]
And then number seven, thanks for sticking with me by the way. This is great. I hope no, I know. I know that you're adding tools to your tool belt. Number seven, power over the environment. So power, what is power over the environment? It's the power you have to create an environment that leads to some level of influence. So, in my office, in my home, in my areas that I have control over on some level, I create an environment that leads to a certain level of influence. So when I'm in my advisory practice, a lot of people come in and they're stressed out because they've got some major problem. It could be certainly with accounting and tax. It could be with some aspect of their business that's just not working well and they just need help. So I've created an environment that's very low stress, inviting, warm. So the lighting is warm. There's beautiful pictures on the walls. The music is soft. The chairs are comfortable. I've got nspiring words on the walls and they come in and essentially what happens is people's stress levels start to decrease. As I say, oh, I like this environment. It makes me feel calmer, more at peace. And then of course, then they come in and speak with the expert who then helps them along their journey. So the power and the influence is to influence them to be invited to de-stress for the moment and find that they can really begin to think clearly and think in a way that they feel better about the direction they're going to solve their problem. That's power over the environment.

[24:38]
And so you can see if you're watching this on YouTube or TikTok, you can see behind me, you can see my home office. And so you say, well, Nate, you've got a lot of knives and sorts, right? Yeesh, what kind of environment power are you trying to have there? Is it a situation to where when your kids come in your office and you wanna punish them that they see those swords and they're intimidated, not at all. I'm a huge Lord of the Rings fan. And, uh, I've got a lot of the props. So the different swords from the movie on the wall and in my home office. And it is actually environmental power over myself to remind me of what a masterpiece in serving others looks like. From a cinematic approach and so extremely violent movie in some ways, but it's extremely endearing to see the sacrifice that people are willing to take to serve others and to create a better future. So those are constant reminders for myself.

[25:41]
So the power over the environment is not just about influencing others. Sometimes it helps us. It helps us as well. So I put encouraging words around my environment to not only encourage others, but it encourages me and reminds me of the beauty of life.

[26:00]
So there's seven social bases of power. Wow. Now, if we can utilize those. So my goal for you, your homework is to think of one area, one of those seven areas. And again, you'll be able to see them in description and online as well. Go to greatsummit.com. You'll be able to find those in the study section. You will then take one and really start focusing on this week, focus on one area of power and you say, well, I'm just gonna go right to coercion. That's fine, but whichever one that you wanna really focus on and then begin to build on each one and each week over the next seven weeks, master those social bases of power, and then you'll be able to create greater influence to achieve your better future state.

[26:52]
Well my friend, thank you for joining me on this episode of A Call to Leadership. If you've been listening, you've probably heard me talk about our accounting and advisory business, and this show was actually born out of that business. Those relationships, I found that entrepreneurs and professionals were missing aspects of their leadership that fed into their bottom line and helped their businesses be successful. So I'm so thankful that I've had all those years in that area to feed into this. And the truth is that so many people still need accounting and advisory help, and they don't know where to go. If you're in that place where you feel, oh my goodness, my tax person or my accountant, I can't find them or maybe their service wasn't up to my expectations. Do not despair. I'll leave how you can find us in the show notes. And one of my team members can do some discovery and help you along your journey. You're not alone. My friend, you always have help. I'm Dr. Nate, Salah. Can't wait to see you on the next show, of A Call to Leadership.