EP26: Business Partnership Pitfalls and Progress with Jim Vizcarra, Brian Scott, and Matt de Miranda

Trust, patience, and optimism can go a long way when building a business. So today, we’ll share how friendship can turn into an excellent investment and business partnership as Jim Vizcarra, Brian Scott, and Matt de Miranda join the show. Discover how commitment and relationships can unlock incredible opportunities in this episode!

Key Takeaways To Listen For

• The timing and preparation needed in a business partnership
• How to embrace your role in a partnership
• Must-have qualities of a reliable business partner
• Disadvantages of overcompensating yourself and instant gratification 
• A walkthrough to running a staffing agency/business
• Why it’s necessary to be an “A Class” employer

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

• Steven Covey’s Pillars of Trustworthiness
• Eddie Bauer
• Gateway Inc.
• SpaceX

About Jim Vizcarra, Brian Scott, and Matt de Miranda

Jim Vizcarra, President and Managing Partner of Stryde Staffing earned a Bachelor’s Degree in Business Administration from Southeast Missouri State University. He has over 16 years experience in the staffing industry with roles including management, regional and national sales, and recruiting. Jim prides himself on establishing strong relationships with his clientele to provide a high level of service. 

Brian Scott, Vice President and Managing Partner of Stryde Staffing is a graduate of McKendree University where he obtained a Bachelor’s Degree in Marketing.  Brian has been in the staffing industry for over 18 years ranging from Recruiting and Sales to Leadership in both Commercial and Government services.  Brian believes communication and relationship building are the keys to success.  In addition, Brian is very active with youth sports, coaching multiple teams and running his indoor sports facility.

Matt de Miranda, also a President and Managing Partner of Stryde Staffing, is a graduate of Southern Illinois University, Carbondale where he attained a BA in Visual Communications and Design. Matt transitioned to the staffing industry and now has over 15 years of recruiting and sales experience. Matt thrives on networking and building lasting relationships with his clients. 

Connect with Jim, Brian, and Matt

• Website: Stryde Staffing
• LinkedIn: Jim Vizcarra | Brian Scott | Matt de Miranda

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Brian Scott

You go back to the beginning, it's back to a lot of nos and trying to get there. So celebrate the little victories, humble yourself. Allow that time. If you continue to be persistent and do things the way you've done them, it will come.

[00:00:18] Dr. Nate Salah

On this episode of a Call to Leadership. We take a hard look at the problems leaders face in business partnerships, many of them fail right before our eyes, and honestly, it could be a huge headache and a responsibility navigating through the trials of having business partners. So I've invited a packed house studio with three guests who have shown exemplary leadership and building their thriving company.

[00:00:45] 

My friends and clients, Jim Vizcarra, Matt Miranda, and Brian Scott of Stryde Staffing, to give us the tools we need to win as leaders in this very important space. I can't wait for you to join us. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, and this is a Call to Leadership. What's up guys? Welcome to the show. Glad to have you here on this episode of A Call to Leadership.

[00:01:08] 

I wanted to bring you guys on because you three have been such an interesting partnership. You know, I work with a lot of clients and you are actually a partnership that works for the most part, right? I'm sure you'll get into like trouble along the way, but I wanted to unpack your relationship as business owners, your move to being a business owner and also your industry working in the staffing industry.

[00:01:31] 

Lots of questions, lots of concerns, lots of uncertainty right now, and I think our audience will really be blessed and informed by some of your takeaways. Glad to have you. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. So let's start with the beginning. How did you three even connect to become partners in business?

[00:01:49] Jim Vizcarra

Well, we all three worked together for many years at our old employer, another local IT staffing company, and throughout that timeframe became personal friends. Those relationships strengthened over what I would say time, and obviously instead of trips we hit with our old employer. We have a lot of time together for a week. Ultimately, just.

[00:02:08] Dr. Nate Salah

So during these trips, would you like kinda like vision cast and daydream about what you can do on your own?

[00:02:14] Matt de Miranda

I'd say the trips were part of it, but a lot the happy hours after were the analogy I've heard many times I've heard Brian say the business that started on a napkin at a bar, I mean, it became through I guess a vision of what it could be if we did this without reporting to other people and just did it on our own.

[00:02:31] 

We knew the trade and we knew the recipe for success and it just kind over time, how much could we talk about it before Jim drew the line in the sand and put a date out there that said, we're either gonna do this or we're not, Which I think was probably the first stepping stone to actually making that as a real date and a real objective and a real like it's go time or it's not and it grew from there.

[00:02:55] Dr. Nate Salah

Okay. So was this your idea or was it all three of your ideas? Brian, where were you at with this?

[00:03:02] Brian Scott

I don't remember one of us specifically. I think it just came out of, I mean, we have a, we're all athletes. We all like golf, so we just had a lot of common interests together and I think just literally in brainstorming, I think the idea just kind of came up and it just trickled from there and, and grew stronger and stronger over a couple year period of time.

[00:03:24] 

I don't recall one person necessarily driving it more than anybody. I think we all had the same kind of common vision and it all strengthened equally over time that this is something we needed to do.

[00:03:35] Dr. Nate Salah

That's good. So, and I've talked with you about this before and our audience would know this, that, you know, most businesses fail and it's even greater of failure when it's partnerships because generally partnerships.

[00:03:48] 

I've been an efficient, if you will, for many partnerships along the way, right? People come in, they say, Nate, we need to form an S corp or an LLC, and we're all excited because the future is bright and it's like basically like a wedding ceremony. But oftentimes once you move into the same house and you start realizing, Oh crap, maybe there were some different ideas about our expectations, about our vision, about our lack of communication that cause issues.

[00:04:20] 

Most partnerships fail. And not only that, there's a lot of other reasons too, as far as timing, as far as preparation. You said this is like a two year journey. I love that because sometimes you'll have a conversation and then like three weeks later be like, Hey, we're gonna go out on our own. It's like, Whoa, slow down.

[00:04:36] 

There's a lot of work to be done on the front end. What kind of preparation did you three take for that two year journey to get ready to go out on your own?

[00:04:46] Matt de Miranda

I mean, for me, I expected, let me back up before that. So I came into our previous employer after Jim and Brian, and it's a timing thing in this industry.

[00:04:56] 

When you go work for a staffing company and once you establish, you build up a bullpen of candidates, you build up a sales territory. That first two to three years is when you really load up and then, and jump off that spring and go. I was two and three years behind Jim and Brian and then through that window of time also we had the recession in ‘09.

[00:05:17] 

So I was kind of stagnant as Jim and Brian had experienced a lot of growth by the time I caught up to him and we talked about, Hey, let's start this business. They had purchased nice homes, they had started families before me. I was right on that cusp of like, okay, where our family's growing, we're ready to expand and grow.

[00:05:34] 

So I was just kind of getting a taste of success, working for somebody else and seeing the rewards in my paycheck and the money was better. So for me, being prepared, it was like, if we're gonna do this, I feel like I've just gone through the battles of making ends meet, to finally making some money to have to go back and do that again.

[00:05:52] 

So we saved money. I saved money and saved money and saved money to be prepared for the worst, which from the day of that first note on the napkin to the day, we walked in our office and gave notice and quit collectively as a trio. You know, this was about a five year or so timeframe of prep. So not only from a what's in my bank account prep, but mentally, Jim's a bulldog and he's got a bulldog mindset.

[00:06:17] 

And we all have different things that compliment this relationship. Jim is like, I'm never gonna lose kind of guy. And I'm always the, what if we do lose kind of guy? So for me it was a lot of reading and a lot of audibles and stuff with driving to gather information about entrepreneurship and those challenges and stuff that were gonna face and picked up little things here and there that resonated with me to keep me motivated.

[00:06:38] 

So not only was it from me, I'm, I'm putting money in a way that my family and I are still financially stable. Things don't work. But also keeping my mind in the right standpoint of there's gonna be hard times, I'm gonna need to be patient and things are gonna have to come together to prepare mentally, not only from a banking standpoint and a financial standpoint, but a mental preparation for the hard things they're gonna be ahead of us. 

[00:06:59] Dr. Nate Salah

Yeah, that's great that you actually took time to read. Like you said, even the audible's listening, preparing your mind, because it's a huge shift, you know, to move from a paycheck to building something on your own. Plus to no paycheck. To no paycheck. To no paycheck, plus doing it when you have a family, I mean, you're already middle age, right?

[00:07:18] 

When I started, I was in my early twenties, I had no responsibility except for going to Aldi and getting my Raymond and my bread from there. Right. But then when I got married, it's like, oh crap. Now I have to make sure that there's stability. That's a challenge, even when it's just you. But now you've got a whole family.

[00:07:34] 

But Jim, you came from an entrepreneurial family. Yes. And so did that affect this trajectory? When you're talking about, I mean, Matt talking about you being a bulldog, is that part of that ethos that you have?

[00:07:44] Jim Vizcarra

Yeah, I think so. A little bit. Having some of that in my family growing up didn't always have a whole lot of money, so for me personally, it was always just wanting what you never had growing up. Mm-hmm. From a motivational standpoint.

[00:07:57] Dr. Nate Salah

How would you classify like your childhood as far as like entrepreneurial? Would you classify the peers that you had as hustlers? Would you classify them as students of the trade? How would you identify that?

[00:08:12] Jim Vizcarra

All the above. Yeah. Honestly, just cuz my step dad I is how I think we and I initially connected cause my sister worked for him.

[00:08:18] 

And seeing that and my dad had his own business here and there with a selling granite, did well then failed. So I've seen a little bit of everything, I guess. At that point, high school and a college.

[00:08:29] Dr. Nate Salah

But did that give you cautions? Did that tell you some of that experience? Say, Okay, this is what I don't want to do if and when I have my own company.

[00:08:37] 

Cause you've got a very specific outlook on business. Would you guys agree with that? As far as, Jim has a very specific outline on money and timing and things like that. Is that something that you learned the hard way or something that you saw while this is something that I think will work? 

[00:08:55] Jim Vizcarra

We first started having the discussions. I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm too optimistic knowing us three and our qualities and how good we became it, our craft. I personally never thought we'd not make it. I don't, Matt, we'll say differently, but that's just, I guess that's a little differences in our personality. But I don't know. I think I just use it as just motivation to where we're not gonna fail if that's good or bad. But luckily I got two great partners and where, where we're at today.

[00:09:20] Dr. Nate Salah

What about you Brian?

[00:09:22] Brian Scott

So my upbringing is actually quite a bit the opposite between my father and my two brothers. They all, three of them worked for Fortune 100 companies their entire career, and I've been the first employee of two companies, started as an entrepreneur, another business, and then this is my second entrepreneurial effort and it's just always been in my blood.

[00:09:47] 

The way I always look at it is I want to be paid what I'm worth, not have somebody else value what I'm worth. So just that concept of if I build it, I'll be rewarded for it. So where it comes from, my dad worked for Purina for 40 plus years and my oldest brother for State Farm for 25 years and middle brother Edward Jones for 20 plus years.

[00:10:08] 

And there's nothing wrong with that. They have wonderful careers and supported their families and will retire happily and it's great. I just was never in the cards for me at our former. And, employer, I was the first employee and I was there 15 years and walked in with no furniture, no idea of what the industry was, but there were three kind of like us, pretty sharp guys that I felt like were headed on a good trajectory.

[00:10:35] 

And I said, Let's go. And I really had no idea what I was getting into. Huh. Before getting into it. Staffing, like Jim said, I, I think when you have the motivation and the drive and the intelligence and a track record of winning, you're more inclined to continue to win. Yeah. And I don't know that I would say I was quite as confident as Jim was, but yeah, I had a pretty good feeling that we would do well.

[00:10:58] Dr. Nate Salah

So why did you do it? I mean, we do business for many, many reasons, right? But to leave the comfort and the security and possibly the potential, right? Because your potential to grow, as you said, save your money, begin to go on a trajectory of enduring many hardships and why?

[00:11:16] Matt de Miranda

I'll jump in on this one. So for me, we're all in sales. So we're motivated by money. The staffing industry is solely a hustle and run that hamster wheel and try to make as much money as you can, but that hamster wheel, as soon as you slow down, so does your income. So money is always a big motivator of starting a business, but when you get down into the nitty gritty of just cuz you wanna make a lot of money doesn't mean it makes sense to start a business.

[00:11:39] 

So I think you have to kind of know how you relate to like a good songwriter. They've probably had to been through something to come up with cool lyrics or write a cool song, or they had to been through something to make something beautiful. Me personally, our last place we were at, I'd been through something.

[00:11:52] 

I was at a point where right, wrong, or indifferent, I was ready to make a change. Whether it was because you didn't feel appreciated, you didn't feel like it was enough. It wasn't fulfilling, There wasn't a lack of growth. Many of those little things that pile up, that build push you to the line that you're just right there and there's enough things that are just not right, that you're like, Is this what I work so hard for?

[00:12:12] 

Is this the end? Am I gonna do this forever? And get you right to that point, and then you get Jim and Brian to pull you on the arm and say, Let's go. So I think you gotta kind of go through something that I'll say now that I'm thankful for feeling, call it underappreciated or undervalued or not enough opportunity.

[00:12:30] 

All those things that I was mad about. I'm thankful because that's what motivated us to jump. So you gotta kind of go through something to be ready to do something different and make a change. So either accept it and deal with it and complain. My wife was tired of hearing me complain all the time. I know.

[00:12:43]
So are my friends. So are these guys. And or you do something about it, you make a change. Not knowing where that's gonna go is starting a business. But I think we're fortunate that we're surpassed three years now and, and the trajectory is looking quite good. So we're, we're happy. So thank you for all those people along the way to piss me off.

[00:12:59] Dr. Nate Salah

Yeah. Some pain, right? When the pain is great enough to make the change, it doesn't hurt enough. And sometimes pain can look at, you can look at that two ways. The pain of my current context or the pain of not realizing my future context. And really those are two different kinds of pains, but they both motivate.

[00:13:15] 

And even once you get to a certain point to where you realize that, as far as the entrepreneurial plight, when you realize I can do this, Can you ever imagine going back?

[00:13:27] Matt de Miranda

No. No way. Impossible.

[00:13:29] Brian Scott

Everybody told us. Matt and I had lunch with a few entrepreneurs along the way just to kiind of stress test our idea, right?

[00:13:37] 

Say, Hey, are we crazy? Is this, And they're like, It'll be the best decision you ever made. And the one question you will ask yourself is, Why didn't I do this sooner? And we all look at ourselves and say, Gosh, we'd have done this a little sooner. Right? Like it, not a doubt in our mind like it that it was the right decision and we wish we would've pulled the trigger a long time ago.

[00:13:54] Dr. Nate Salah

So your motivation would, would you guys say similar motivations or would you have different motivation to touch on?

[00:14:00] Jim Vizcarra

No, everything they both said and now I guess looking back on it feeling like that we've made it, which I feel like we can say that, you know now where we're at and where we're going, providing that opportunity that we were all given from a company where Brian and Matt and I started at similar size.

[00:14:16] 

Maybe not as early Brian was first employee, but when we look back now and I walk in on Monday mornings and we've got five employees in our office, tremendous opportunity and looking back and we can like say we built this and we're creating opportunity for other people to meet. That's just as exciting as saying, we've made it huge. I mean it's really cool.

[00:14:34] Brian Scott

It's huge. I think for me it's a culmination of, and none of them are like epic, huge moments. It's all those little things that we learn of how to do it the right way, right? But then all those little things that were like, if we did it, we would do it this way. We would change these little things to make our environment and our culture and our growth and just how we operate.

[00:14:56] 

What call it arrogance, call whatever you want better. Like we felt like we could do it a little bit better. There's staffing is staffing, but there's the little nuances and the little tweaks and turns and how you go about your day. That separate the good from the great. Yeah. We feel like we have that equation.

[00:15:14] 

Maybe not on lockdown. There's always things you learn every day, but we feel like we have the base of it really solid and are gonna continue to build upon it. And so it was a combination of, yeah, there's some little things I wish would be different, but it's also that just I feel like I can do it better. Yeah. Well that's reap the rewards. Yeah. To be honest of doing it better. And.

[00:15:37] Dr. Nate Salah

So when I was working on my MBA, I boiled down my entire educational experience and all the money it costs into three words, do it better. I mean, literally my entire master's degree could have been boiled down into those three words.

[00:15:50] 

Yeah, there's a lot of other things involved, but that's what we do. And that's also part of like the leadership journey is because we see that there's a problem. In the way business is done, whether it's product or a service that's being offered, and we realize that we can be a part of that solution in a fresh, new way.

[00:16:08] 

And that's also motivating when you know that you have solutions to solve problems in new ways that other people haven't. And that's also exciting. That's innovation, right? Innovation doesn't need to be disruptive. It doesn't need to be something that changes everything. It could just be incremental ideas that ultimately create a better experience for all the potential stakeholders you have.

[00:16:29] 

And I think that's part of what you're saying is that you could see that you could be a part of a greater opportunity to solve problems in fresh new ways. But of course that's great in like theory, right? It's great when you're at Happy Hour or golfing. By the way, who's the best golfer between the three of you who's a crash golfer?

[00:16:47] Jim Vizcarra

I'm not raising my hand.

[00:16:49] Matt de Miranda

Depends on who's healthy. Brian's hurt, so I'll take the crown.

[00:16:54] Dr. Nate Salah

Matt wins. Maybe you guys will take me out sometime. I'll just drive the cart anyway, so, So we have this great idea and this is where I wanna kind of hang out for just a little bit because you've got some of our audiences listening and maybe they wanna make a transition.

[00:17:06] 

And they hear you talking about the preparation a couple years. Saving, saving, saving, preparing for this sort of desert journey that you're about to have before you get to the oasis, right? Before you get to the place where you are today. Walking through those three years and also the dynamic, right?

[00:17:25] 

There's probably been times where you guys have had maybe some expectations haven't been met, maybe some communication was lacking. Maybe the vision got a little bit faulty sometime or another. Right? Let's dig into some of the challenges that you faced along the way, because I know it's not all Roses. Who wants to start like, Oh, well, matter of fact, or something going on right now? No, no, but seriously.

[00:17:45] Matt de Miranda

When we all started, Brian was out of what we would say production, where we're like FaceTime with clients and so forth and, And Jim kind of migrated that way too, like he was kind of in a hybrid role.

[00:17:56] 

Partially managing which outside of St. Louis in a different city and selling. And then, you know, I was full time selling the weeds. So as this all comes together, it's just kind of figuring out like how do these puzzle pieces come together and where do we all kind of interconnect? And I think there was challenges in figuring out like where do we all fit in the food chain here and how do we make this thing go?

[00:18:15] 

Cuz we all kind of have a similar knowledge base, similar experiences, and the same journey, you know, in the same room, same company. So there wasn't a lot of like, Hey I, an idea we did it differently here or there. It. All the same. So it's figuring out where we pick in on things such as like the accounting and the benefits and setting up a bank account and a credit card and a website and marketing and all these different things that come outside of just what we know in our box of staffing and figuring out who's gonna fill these roles and what they're gonna do and how it's gonna come together.

[00:18:44] 

Think we're all kind of surprised that where are all those chips settled and who ends up wearing these hats? Cuz I was fortunate that I had very warm relationships when our non-compete expired that I was able to jump back into that. Didn't take a great deal of some didn't take a great deal of, of work to reestablish those relationships and networks and and allow that business to come in.

[00:19:03] 

So were, that kept me occupied. So that was my time, was pretty much selling a lot of the time and, and Jim jumped into a lot of our back office stuff, which I never, I didn't know if it was gonna be me. I hoped it didn't have to be me. I thought maybe Brian had some experience in that, and he might do more of that stuff.

[00:19:19] 

But Jim, I think we can both say, kind of blew us away with his ability to be organized and run with that and how he kind of filled that. I don't even know why it happened, but he just kind of has managed that piece of it. And Brian has handled a lot of the recruiting for us and handled that piece of it that I've always known Brian as a sales guy since I, since I met him when we started working together 12 years before we started the business.

[00:19:40] 

So we all kind of fell. And I don't think that me being the last guy in the food chain, as I ever mentioned earlier, with these guys both being sales and directors, and then me being the lead salesperson, I was more afraid going into this that I was gonna be the underperformer where my accounts happen to be warm and hot now, and it all just kind of, you figure out where you go.

[00:19:58] 

So I think to get back to your question, the challenge is just where does it kind of. Where do we all fall in a place to where we can have enough coverage to work in the business and on the business? Yeah. And still, march forward, you know, So it took time to figure out where we all kind of fit best in, in how we helped this thing move forward.

[00:20:16] Brian Scott

Yeah. I mean, I can, can go back to a, a singular moment that was very tough. But also, I would kind of say shaped who we are coming into Stryde. We all knew I had another business, and my wife stays at home with our kids, and I coach all their sports teams. And it's an understatement to say I was significantly overcommitted in just relationship to time.

[00:20:43] 

It was in August of, or was that the first year or second year? I don't remember exactly. I, I should remember it, but I think as a partner, We had a really hard conversation about we need more of, and specifically me, right? I was very humbled. We need more of your time. You're over-committed. And for this to be successful, we all three have to be pulling our fair share.

[00:21:06] 

And at the time was upset, mad, hurt, like trying to comprehend. I'm doing all these things for all these people, but they were right. They're like, We committed to each other and our families and our business. You gotta pull your weight. And so to have, after digesting it and coming to the realization that they're absolutely right, it only made me appreciate them more.

[00:21:32] 

That we have that relationship and that bond and that trust to have hard, honest communication with each other of, Hey, for this to be successful, here are the expectations, and here's what we have to do to get there. And if you're not, we're gonna call you out on it. Right. And so for me, that was a pretty pivotable, I can't say that word, pivotal moment.

[00:21:53] 

Trying to conquer everything all at once versus being a little more narrow and focused was what was needed. And so, from that standpoint, I could see where other businesses would crash and burn because it would create animosity and fighting. And with us, I think it only strengthened who we are versus turning it in disaster.

[00:22:16] Dr. Nate Salah

Yeah. That was a crucial conversation. And it's important that you share that because if someone is producing, like bringing money in, Right? And then someone else is doing whatever, the fair share, Right? And then there's an equity piece that you start to really consider, like, is everyone, does everyone have the same skin in the game based on what the expectations were?

[00:22:37] 

And you're right because if you don't have that crucial conversation, what happens? You know, you start to build resentment, you start to have animosity. You start to think maybe this just isn't working out. Right. How did you guys approach that? I mean, obviously, you two, Jim and Matt had to have a conversation at some point, I'm sure, and say, Hey look, how do we approach this with Brian so that we can make sure we're all rowing in the same direction?

[00:23:01] Jim Vizcarra

Well, I think what made it harder to approach it was because of our friendship. Our wives are, as much as we can see each other with all young kids and don't live super close. But I mean, we're good buddies. Before we started this, our wives were friends. And so that alone makes it tough to even bring up.

[00:23:18] 

But Cause you care about each other? Yeah, absolutely. And we came into this together. We all have the right expectation. We've never done this before. So in terms of like, I can remember we first started, we never set like, this is your role in the company, this is yours. Things, just like Matt said, just kind of fell into place.

[00:23:31] 

And then how do you broach a subject when it's needed? So it wasn't easy obviously, but you know, when we had this discussion, it's, you know, this is our livelihoods. We put equal investment in all of our other's livelihoods. Not only do we to our, ourselves, but our wives and our kids. Yeah. It wasn't easy. Huge sacrifice. Yeah. Yeah. I mean we, all three have sacrificed a ton financially, time.

[00:23:53] Dr. Nate Salah

Do you think that you, since you had that conversation, that you are closer now, that you've been able to like let it all out and say, Look, you know, we gotta stay, stay true? 

[00:24:06] Matt de Miranda

We're all pretty close outta the gates. And I think that's kind of also like compliments why we would feel comfortable, and I would expect the same from these guys if I wasn't, whatever the case may be.

[00:24:15] 

I think we're all comfortable enough that we got this kind of a team mindset of pick someone up when they're down or kick 'em in the butt when they need it, and. We embraced that and, like Brian, the analogy of being former athletes and stuff like it's water on the bridge and off we go again. I mean, it's, let's go forward. I think we all collectively have the big picture in, in mind and, and it's embraced.

[00:24:35] Dr. Nate Salah

Yeah, that's a lot of maturity that goes into that. And I love that. I love, you know, the, the idea of giving each other permission to call each other out when we are not committed to what we signed up for. And I think it also creates an atmosphere to where, I mean, communication is essential in business.

[00:24:53]
Right? I mean, as soon as you, And not only business, all relationships. Mm-hmm, like whether it's a marriage, whether it's parenting, whether it's in a community, a nation, whatever it is, every relationship hinges on clear and accessible communication. And communication isn't belittling, it's not talking down to someone.

[00:25:11] 

It's an exchange. It's an exchange of ideas. And so when we can, when we can share those ideas and say in a partnership whether again, what, whatever kind of partnership it is, we can communicate effectively and then have the maturity to say, Okay, you know what? I did drop the ball here. Or I can, or I disagree, right?

[00:25:31] 

And have those conversations. I mean, look, there may be some situations to where you may come in fire, and you're like, Well, here's some of the background of that and let's talk about how we can move forward. But I think that's, that's how a healthy partnership really continues to move in the right direction.

[00:25:46] 

And I say that because so many don't. So many don't. They're fractured, they're contentious, and they eventually fizzle out, and they die. And it's sad because you see such great potential, but with the three of you, and that's again, it's one of the reasons why I wanted to have you guys join me because for this conversation, because someone's listening now who doesn't have that.

[00:26:06] 

Mm-hmm., who is struggling to have those kind of conversations is struggling to set the right expectations. And you were actually very fortunate that you did not have to lay out a lot of ground rules in terms of, you know, who's doing what, but some can't function that way. And I'm sure you knew what each person was capable of, but I also love how you pivoted, right?

[00:26:28] 

You changed roles in some capacity based on where you found your genius zone and taken ownership of that. That's important too. If you had a word of caution for the team that's forming right now to create a partnership, what would you say as far as if you could go back and start over and, and what would you say, Here's a word of caution for you, or Here's what I would recommend that you do that maybe you didn't do when you first started.

[00:26:55] Jim Vizcarra

Well, before you ask that question, one thing I wanted to add is I think what made us so successful or what would've made us successful to this point and why there were, at least, I had zero hesitation as started. It was cause I trusted these guys. So for me, trust, trustworthy, however you wanna phrase it, goes as first and foremost, You know, I trusted that I'm gonna leave a very lucrative job to not have any income for at least a year and get to where, you know, at the time we didn't know where, but. Or right now and continue to grow. So for me, if you're gonna have more than any partner, you gotta trust them.

[00:27:28] Dr. Nate Salah

You guys feel the same way? 

[00:27:29] Matt de Miranda: 

I mean, the word that resonates with me through this whole journey in a, in a, and I could probably say this for a lot of different questions you would ask me, is patience, which came from one of the books I read.

[00:27:38] 

But I think as a relationship, would mature with a friend or with your spouse, and as a business, matures. Roles in that business might change. So I don't wanna feel like Brian to feel like the punching back on this because when we started out, Jim and I had the warmer client base, so it was easier at our disposal to grab these clients.

[00:27:58] 

And so where Brian had been outta production, Brian offers a tremendous value in coaching and teaching and training and bringing new hires on that I don't think I really wanna do that. Jim doesn't really want to do, and then he is far better than I will or ever wanna be. And as we've matured, that's a bigger need now we have five employees, and he's been paramount in helping it. So I think patients applies to that because the landscape has changed from, it has, gosh, six months ago to 18 months ago, to two years ago, everything has changed, and like the characteristics and traits that we have are still being exposed in ways that we still didn't expect.

[00:28:33] 

I think initially, I was expected Brian to be a good coach and mentor, and teacher, but that's a big valuable piece for us now, that wasn't even offered an opportunity to be there because it was just the three of us banging on each other and whatever. But now that we've grown, we have more people, there's more opportunity for these things to come out and flourish.

[00:28:49] 

So being patient and if you really believe and trust that you're gonna grow as a business and the new things that we haven't encountered yet that we're going to encounter in the future, that a new flower may grow between one of us and have to take on a new challenge just to make the business continue to prosper. So it's being patient and ever-changing expectations and things that need to thrive. 

[00:29:10] Brian Scott

Yeah. I would say, looking back, the value of positivity and kind of goes along with what Matt said of celebrating small victories, right? Every victory is not equal in size and magnitude, but you have to celebrate 'em because along the way, there's a lot of negative thoughts that can come into your mind and stress and you know, just losses, right?

[00:29:38] 

You, you get told no after, no after, no after, no. As you're starting, like for the last 15 years, we've all been uber successful, and things have started to come easy, and when you start over, you humble yourself, and you go back to the beginning. It's back to a lot of nos and trying to get there, so celebrate the little victories.

[00:29:57] 

Humble yourself. Allow that time. If you continue to be persistent and do things the way you've done them, it will come. But sometimes it's in the first six months, sometimes it's 18 months, sometimes it's two years. You don't know. So negative thoughts in your own mind can damage all of your motivation and all of your persistence and everything that you know needs to be there to be successful.

[00:30:25] 

So, and that's where these guys in the partnership grabbing a lunch here and there, and talking, grabbing a beer out of a happy hour, playing around a golf and just celebrating, Hey, we did this, this week. This is awesome. Maybe we're not here yet, but this is good. We're heading, we're trending, and just continuing to excite and motivate and push each other.

[00:30:47] 

That's one of the things I would, as a new business to tell people to just be mindful of, If you don't sign the big deal day one, it will come. You just have to stay positive and fight through it. So.

[00:30:59] Dr. Nate Salah

That's good. Small victories build courage, and I'm a huge believer in how we continue to move forward. I can't agree more with just in the moment we're so 

focused on the destination that we sometimes, what we forget the journey, right?

[00:31:16] 

And that small victory that you celebrate. It's like, I tend to look at it like it's a symphony. Your business is like a symphony your whole life, and you get to be the Maestro, and with every great crescendo of sound, you know, it's a moment to celebrate that in this amazing journey that you are on as well as all of your stakeholders are on.

[00:31:36] 

I did wanna touch on what you had said because I think it's so powerful, all those three pieces. One, the trust, trustworthiness is essential to a relationship working in the long run, any relationship. So if you've ever heard of Steven Covey, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Way back in the day, he suggested that trust was built on two pillars.

[00:31:57] 

One is competence, right? You're all superstars, right? You know how to do the work, you know how to do it, right? And the other is character doing the right thing for the right reasons, having moral fiber integrity. And he said that trust is built on those two pillars. There's a lot of other pieces to trust as well, but that's the foundation of it.

[00:32:16] 

And if you could think about your own relationship, I'm sure that you would say, Yes, I trust these guys because they have high level of confidence and they have a high level of character, and we can walk through any challenge together because, And you have to, you gotta ask those hard questions when you're even getting into a partnership because if one is off, it's just not gonna work.

[00:32:38] 

And I don't just tell you that out of theory, it's because I've seen it time and time again. For every marriage that I've instituted and LLC, I formed, right? About 40 to 70% of one partner comes back and say, We needed the solution. We need to wind up. And generally, one of those two reasons is the culprit Now, there are other factors too. Lots of factors. Life happens, right? Changes and things like that. But the other piece is what you said about patients, right? Having the patience to see it out and wait it out and give it time to develop as far as your own understanding. Not just jump in and attack, but understand that things take time to grow, right?

[00:33:20] 

It's a seed, and a seed has to germinate, and it has to be nourished, and it has to protected, and eventually, it grows into a plant. Then it eventually grows into something that bears good fruit, right? And it just takes a lot of patience for that to happen and often takes you, Tell me what you think more patients than you think you need in the first place.

[00:33:37] 

I mean, you're into three years. You might thought, well, this is probably our spot. But there's probably some times along the way you're like, Well, you know what? We could take an extra distribution, but we need to continue to nourish this fruit-bearing plant, so it'll bear even more fruit.

[00:33:54] Matt de Miranda

Yes. So we've invested, we hired five people in the last how many months? 12, 18. 

[00:34:00] Jim Vizcarra: 

Wells anniversary, our first employees, one anniversaries on May 17th. 

[00:34:04] Matt de Miranda

Yeah. So five internal employees and however many consultants that are working out in the field for us. But in terms of our internal staff, we've invested in that. And within, you talk about ROI, I mean, in the last 14 months. 12 months since we hired our first employee to now the growth has been 400%, 300%.

[00:34:23] 

I don't know. It's all due to reinvesting in people that, and I try to over part of my journey and my motivation to start a company, I wanna make sure everyone that ever works for me is very, knows that I'm extremely appreciative of them coming to work, listen to my opinions and my structure and my thoughts on how to be successful in their job and coming in and doing it for us.

[00:34:41] 

They're working for us, which is still, to me, like it's hard to really conceive that, I guess, in some regards. But investing in us and not taking that distribution and plans we have in the future for occupying new office space and whether we lease or we buy. Keeping that money where it belongs and not necessarily our pockets so we can continue to reinvest and have a, a cool work environment and to build on our culture, and to attract more people to come work for us.

[00:35:06] 

And is a fun, cool place with a good culture and young hungry talent that wanna work hard and wanna get into a commission and sales based world and provide the best gamut of an opportunity and environment that we can offer. So that distribution piece is a big part of that. You know? Indeed it's huge.

[00:35:21] Jim Vizcarra

So I have nothing to compare it to, but I absolutely say we're pretty conservative with that and have been to date those reasons.

[00:35:28] Dr. Nate Salah

Yeah, I would agree. I mean, from an accountants perspective, and it's tempting, right? I mean, not only that, but I've seen so many entrepreneurs as soon as they make a little bit of money, They go out and they buy the fancy car and they upgrade the house and all this other stuff, and I'm sure, let's just call it what it is.

[00:35:44] 

I'm sure there's pressures at home. Hey, when are we gonna actually start to make money? I mean, come on. These are real conversations, right? You're like, Well, we are, but we can't access it right now because we're building a business. Like, Well, what about that cool vacation we need to take? Or what about the bathroom model? Or whatever it is.

[00:36:00] Matt de Miranda

Yeah, I feel that restraint because I think we can be candid in saying in the first 12 months of our business, we didn't take any money out. It was, we left everything back in there for when we need to start our first distribution.

[00:36:12] Dr. Nate Salah

But who's counting? Right? Right.

[00:36:15] Matt de Miranda

You know, in our business, we have to have money to pay contractors, and some of these companies wanna pay us back in 30, 60, or 90 days on payment.

[00:36:24] 

So you have to develop a, a pretty big bucket of money to start paying people. And unless you have that, you can't ever get off the ground. So we had to just leave it in there. So there may, there was funds to take that first year, 14 months, but it was not an advantageous play to do that. So we leave it there and slowly builds and slowly builds.

[00:36:43] 

We had a successful day. We're on the golf course, and we get a call that we get a placement, a start that we call it in our world. And then we got another one right after that. It was just like, Oh my gosh, it's happening. And that was just the absolute very beginning. It's been awesome.

[00:36:56] Brian Scott

Yeah. And I would say, and I don't know that I had any expectation going into it, but the money side of it, when we talk about how much and what to distribute in our plans, I feel like it's a very short, concise, we're all lock and step.

[00:37:10] 

Leave it in the company, build the company, hire more employees, make sure we're conservative. The best and worst thing that can happen to you early in a business is to hire a whole bunch of contractors and then not get paid for 60 days and not have money to pay 'em. Right. It's good cuz you have people that are out making money, but if you can't pay 'em, it all crumbles.

[00:37:28] 

So to have that foundation set up and it's, call it whatever, we all are very lock and step and that same conservative mindset of don't rob the business for that short term gratification. Look at the longer term. Bigger picture and it's working and we'll continue to work out well if we can all hold that.

[00:37:49] Dr. Nate Salah

Yeah. So one caution, it's what I'm hearing is don’t overcompensate yourself when you need to reinvest in the business. Don't take the instant gratification, as alluring as it is, because it is when you start to see money in the bank account and you've been struggling, it's very enticing. But you've gotta resist.

[00:38:07] 

You've gotta resist because if you reinvest, it's only going to continue to, Plus, it's exponentially more stressful when you've gone out and you bought stuff and now you can't pay your bills. Well, that's a reality for a lot of businesses because you don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow. You could have a downturn.

[00:38:25] 

And then what? I've got no surplus to cover it. Right. Those are real problems. Interestingly, Walt Disney shared your philosophy about conservatism in terms of his cash out to him and his brother Roy. They reinvested just about everything back into Disney. And one reason he wanted to have the best possible production, the best possible experience, so he wanted to have all of the best possible opportunities.

[00:38:51] 

The other is he hated paying taxes, and he knew that if I just keep reinvesting in the company, then I won't have to pay taxes all on the money because I'm spending it in the company. I mean, he hated, hated Taxes, which most entrepreneurs do. So we all share that. And then secondly, it's interesting you can bring that up about instant gratification.

[00:39:07] 

There was a study done years ago, it was a, what we call a longitudinal study over a long period of time with kids. And basically, and you might have heard of this or some of our audience might have heard of this study, there were two groups, one group. Had, Well, they both had the option to take one piece of candy today, or two pieces tomorrow, and both groups were followed through their lives and the group who took one piece of candy had much different life outcomes than the group who waited and was patient to take the two.

[00:39:40] 

Patience. Right? And optimism. Right? And trust. Trust that that candy would be there in two days. Right. Well, what do you think happened? What do you think happened with the group who wanted the instant gratification and took it? What do you think happened to them? What do you think their finances were like later?

[00:39:57] Brian Scott

Probably a lot of credit card debt

[00:39:59] Jim Vizcarra

Really makes ends meet.

[00:39:59] Dr. Nate Salah

Exactly. Their finance were shamble. They were taking job hopping and a lot of issues with consistency. The group who had the two pieces of candy had more stability, more longevity, more success ultimately in life. The question is, Can you teach your kids to wait?

[00:40:20] 

I think the answer is yes. I think you can, but you have to vision cast for 'em too. Say, you know, this is a life trajectory for you. Mm-hmm. This is a game changer for you in your life. And I say that cause we all have kids, right? And it's just interesting to think about and you're probably think about your own kids right now and like, okay, what, which kid would take the one

[00:40:41] 

Which would take the tip. But that speaks volumes to how we operate in business as well. I wanted to hang out here for a while and I'm glad we had the opportunity to, because you've managed that process exquisitely and many don't. So kudos to you for that. But I like to take the time now to to transition because you're in the staffing business and this last two years with the pandemic has been unimaginable in the staffing industry. So I'd like to peel back a couple layers and just get some wisdom from you guys for employers out there who are struggling. I mean, I hear it every single day. Oh, it's so difficult to find people. I was just on the phone with a friend last night who is in the trucking industry and a dispatcher, and so the people walking out in the middle of the day and having to assume multiple roles, not only to dispatch, but also to actually drive the trucks as well, and the stress levels and the pressure and what is going on.

[00:41:40] 

I mean, some people say, Oh, the great resignation is just because people. Are getting unemployment checks, but I think it's much deeper than that. What are you seeing?

[00:41:49] Brian Scott

It's a loaded question.

[00:41:50] Matt de Miranda 

Mm-hmm. I'll say that IT is gonna be a lot different than someone driving a truck. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way, where people in it are typically the CS degrees.

[00:42:01] 

They're calling on us to bring them people to solve complex problems. They don't have the means or resources to go find. So they use a staffing firm, whether it be Stride or one of our competitors, to go through and, and investigate all these people and find this diamond in the rough candidate that can come help them solve their problems.

[00:42:20] 

So it's incredibly challenging, It's incredibly saturated. And then in IT, though, we've all been in the business now for 15, 16, 20 years. I mean, almost we're ing 50 plus years collectively here. It has always been that way. We've been through the recession oh nine that I mentioned earlier. The peaks and valleys are there, but it just never really seems to hit the bottom like other industries do.

[00:42:45] 

Technology drives everything. The guys that are driving trucks are using technology to, for their shipments and, and where they're coming and going and while they're having a hard time finding someone to maybe drive that vehicle, someone in it is writing software to help improve their process of shipping and receiving and logistics and all that.

[00:43:01] 

One of best clients is in that show, is in that, in that space. So it is, is a resilient industry from a staffing perspective. There's always needs. I mean there's somewhere, I hate to put a number on it, be way off, but something like 3 million plus openings in the country right now for IT, it might be way more than that, but it's in high demand.

[00:43:19] 

So we're always needed and to be in a saturated market that is, we have so many competitors. Goes back to kind of the pillars of trust. We're successful because we have a long history of working with the same customers that we've established trust with that allow us to be successful because I would hate to start this not having those relationships.

[00:43:38] 

We experienced that in our non-compete when whenever we went to engineering and mechanical engineering and we went in accounting and finance and sales and marketing and all these things, we thought, Hey, we know staffing, staffing, staffing. We can go jump in and do this. But without those relationships, it was tough.

[00:43:53] 

So, I might have gotten off track there a little bit, but.

[00:43:55] Dr. Nate Salah

No, no, no. That's good.

[00:43:56] Brian Scott

I've done this 18 years from the days of printing out resumes and hand delivering and to going paperless to now automated systems and artificial intelligence and machine learning, and I think everything has evolved drastically.

[00:44:14] 

And then you add in covid and the evolution of people being trusted to do their job from home is just exponentially thrown a wrench in how employers need to think about hiring. The ones who've embraced it and gotten good at it are winning the ones who are behind and aren't able to keep up with the changes are struggling mightily and there's a lot of 'em right in the middle that do some things good and other things not good.

[00:44:43] 

But we've had to completely reinvent how we recruit. Several years ago, St. Louis jobs were for St. Louis people and maybe there was an occasional relocation here or there throughout the course of a year. And if you looked at our roster of people that work for us on client side, it's, I bet there's 20 different states represented.

[00:45:04] 

It's a complete paradigm shift of how we operate. So you have to be willing and able to recognize that just because we used to do it this way doesn't mean we need to do it that way in the future because it's not working and evolve. The one constant that has remained throughout all of that is relationships and to build on mass point of trust.

[00:45:27] 

You know, you build that trust by having a good relationship, whether it's with the job seeker or the employer. And when you have that, a lot of things remain similar. There's just some nuances that are different.

[00:45:40] Jim Vizcarra

So looking back, I guess, where things have changed a lot, at least on the staffing side, There's been some really good positive and some not so positive.

[00:45:49] 

The good thing is, is that I could say is some of our clients have said, You know what? We don't need people locally in St. Louis. We'll hire 'em. We know developers can write code from anywhere. So that's made it, I guess, easier for us in a sense, cuz our net to cast is so much bigger. On the negative side, you've got these candidates who know they're these developers.

[00:46:08] 

I'll just keep referencing developers. They're in such high demand that if they know they're good, the ball's in their court, they can look for the most money, the latest technology, whatever, right? Whatever is the main driver for them to look for new job. Well, it makes it harder for us to place that person.

[00:46:24] 

Makes it even harder for that, our client to hire that person. On the flip side, you've got clients that are kind of still setting their archaic ways of, let's say, interviewing takes 'em two, three weeks to interview someone and make a decision in today's market. Like, you might as well not even talk to the person. The developer's gone in two days. If they're really, really marketing themselves or working with, let's say three staffing firms.

[00:46:45] Matt de Miranda

Yeah, they're interviewing five companies. You can't drag your feet.

[00:46:48] Jim Vizcarra

And some companies will do a two hour interview, a Zoom meeting with you and say, You know what? You're everything we need, we've teched you out. You're in our price range offer. We've got some companies that takes four or five interviews and whatever else. Background check. Cuz personality assessments again, takes three to four weeks from start to finish. You're gonna come and last every time. So, you know, our service is free obviously until the placement is made.

[00:47:14] 

But the, it goes from our time invest with our client. Our time invests with our recruitment team. Our recruitment team's time invested with our candidates. So, I mean, there's many, many people involved in this. We'd consider a simple hiring process, right? To get to start to finish. So it's the landscape's been turned upside down. You look back on it pre covid, you're just like, This is crazy.

[00:47:36] Matt de Miranda

Yeah. Really neat thing about the IT space too though, is the standard method of hiring isn't right to hire or contractor hire where they bring in someone as a contractor for six months and then if they like 'em, they evaluate 'em, they're a good cultural fit, all the intangibles are there.

[00:47:50] 

They can't also like the culture and it's a long term fit. Then at the end of that six months, they might say, Hey, let's make a long term decision here in partnership as a W2, they hire 'em as their full-time employee, so, To kind of add on to Jim's point is some of those steps are necessary in making a long term commitment.

[00:48:06] 

But when they have the ability to be so agile with things where if you bring in a contract to hire and that person doesn't work out because of who knows why, died, and now they're depressed and they can't come to work. I mean, we've seen everything happen literally then, hey, this isn't gonna be the right long term fit for.

[00:48:21] 

So, some of those steps in our eyes from a staffing perspective could maybe be jumped over that are readdressed after that six month period, and then you can say, Hey, let's do the other necessary checks and balances and make the long term commitment because we don't create the rules. The world of staffing has created it and the demand for people as created it, and you just gotta move quick to really seal up the people you want.

[00:48:43] Dr. Nate Salah

Yeah, those are all really good points because as I think about what you're saying, I think about in the past where we would do one interview and then. We would possibly try to hire somebody. And then conventional wisdom changed, said, No, you've gotta do 3, 4, 5. Because that's how you really get to know people.

[00:49:00] 

And they've gotta be really long interviews because you know, once people start getting comfortable, then you start to understand who they really are and, and then of course you've gotta have all these personality assessments. And then of course you've gotta have all these skill assessments and all of this, right?

[00:49:14] 

Because that's the way you hire for duration. But what you're saying is some of that conventional wisdom is actually being flipped upside down. And that's changing the way people perceive how we hire people today post pandemic in a world where it is very difficult, not just your frontline employee, but professionals as well to get them to the table.

[00:49:39] 

I mean, and then of course you have employer issues too, right? Because they don't get it. Either, Right, whether or not they show up to a Zoom interview. Right. Does that ever happen? 

[00:49:51] Jim Vizcarra

Sure. That's happened, that's happened and I've actually had over the last, I'd say six, seven months, two different clients just reach out to me and say, Hey, be honest with us.

[00:50:01] 

What was our interview process consistent with most? Cause things have changed and I'll never ever tell any one of my clients how to interview or what. Just my only advice is usually just condense it and expedite it if you can. Sometimes, maybe sometimes you need to change it a little bit again cuz you're looking for the same person that everyone else in the country's looking for.

[00:50:21] 

And when you find that right person, like you gotta move. We say it's, we're blue in the face, but it's just, it's so competitive. And like I said, that such a high demand for these talented, especially the good ones, the A players in the IT field. They know they're good, they know they're marketable, they know they're gonna get above market rate and everything else.

[00:50:39] 

What's your story? Are you gonna sell yourself on that candidate to take your job outside of. Probably having to compete with two or three other offers that candidate has in hand after two days of interview. That's something's just a reality.

[00:50:51] Matt de Miranda

How things have changed in the hiring process too is the, the employer has been in the driver's seat of, we're gonna pick between these five candidates and if we offer them, they maybe assume that they lows accept.

[00:51:03] 

It's like we're going in now as we do a lot of preparation with our candidates before they go into these interviews, Hey, you need to make sure you've been on their website. You need to make you have done your due diligence and get prepared and have questions and all these things. Where now I'm making phone calls to the hiring managers and the employers and saying, Hey, you gotta file interview with Dave.

[00:51:21] 

He's talking to five companies and you're in like third place, so you're gonna have to go in and sell him. Mm-hmm. that this is a good opportunity and why he should accept your job. So instead of them interviewing five candidates, now they're interviewing two or three and the candidates are interviewing all these other places.

[00:51:37] 

So now it's like on the employer, like, should he or she wanna work for you, you better be prepared to sell. Because at this point it's changed. So if you want 'em, you better come and play ball.

[00:51:47] Dr. Nate Salah

Especially if they're A players. And if some of our audience would've heard me say this, if you want A player results, you have to have A players, the B and C team just won't do. But not only you have to be an A player as an employer because A players aren't gonna work for B and C employers. Yeah. And it reminds me of a lot of the research I've done around visionary leaders in my academic work, visionaries are A players and they only hire A players, but they do the same thing as what you're talking about.

[00:52:19] 

They sell the vision, they sell the dream, and then they back it up with the tangibles. Right. The contingent rewards. Think about this. Are you guys iPhone people? Yeah. Guilty. I'm the only Android. Oh yeah. And I've been an Android, and actually, you know, as much as I know about Steve Jobs and how much I've written about him, I actually just bought my first iPad just, last week.

[00:52:41]

I had my leadership development group. We had our spring. And I took them to one of the local malls and we stopped in as part of our, our recon we do on our retreats. We stopped in Eddie Bauer store. And why would you stop at the Eddie Bauer store? At the mall, right. Malls don't even have an Eddie Bauer anymore.

[00:53:00] 

And I mean, we're all middle eight. So you remember back in the day when Eddie Bauer was the thing, right? I mean, there was an Eddie Bauer Ford, I think it was an explorer, right? And the headrest. Oh, you see? Yeah. Did you have one? No, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah. Wanted one though. You wanted one, right? Oh, it's so cool.

[00:53:15] 

Right now. Well, back in the 90’s. Eddie Bauer, of course, was a premium brand, and this whole staffing thing is so important to this story because Steve Jobs was looking for an A player to head up the development of the Apple store, and he interviewed a guy named Marran Johnson and the first interview, he shared his vision for this idea.

[00:53:41] 

Now, the board didn't want the Apple store at all. They saw all of these computer stores going out of business. I mean, there was, Gateway was shutting down. There was Comp USA, which was where the Apple computers were, but they were all the way in the back of the store and nobody got to it because the commission sales guys weren't gonna sell the Apple computers.

[00:54:00] 

So Jobs said if Apple is what he told Ron Johnson, If Apple is gonna succeed, it has to win on innovation, and it can't win on innovation unless it has a way to communicate with its customer. And so his grand, So he's, he's sharing this in this first interview, right? So this is the interview, right? He's sharing the vision of why this is essential.

[00:54:23] 

This role is essential for the success of Apple. It's a pretty big statement, right? In an interview. This is what you're talking about selling it, right? Mm-hmm. . But check this out. So he has the first interview and Johnson's interested second interview. They don't have it in the office. They leave, They go to the Stanford Mall, 140 acre mall, and they go and they walk the mall from eight 30 in the morning and back and forth, back and forth.

[00:54:49] 

They stop at the Eddie Bauer store and they sit at in front of the Eddie Bauer store, and they say all the things that they love and hate about it. And the things that they didn't like about it was that it just, it had two entrances. It seemed busy. It was not inviting, it was not open. So Johnson then starts giving jobs ideas about what a store might look like, that would represent Apple open, warm, super cool windows everywhere, the finest material, very little clutter, right?

[00:55:24] 

A place where people can interact and get to know Apple. And they agree that people would not necessarily drive five or 10 miles to see an Apple computer, but they would walk a few minutes into a store and that's how they would begin to grab the PC users and ultimately convert them into Apple users.

[00:55:47] 

It was not only essential, but it turned out to be the one of the best moves Apple could make because eventually Apple stores. Are there a Copy USA store anymore? I don't think so. No. I mean, just go down the list, right? Gateway's gone, all the other ones. I think Best Buy is pretty much the only big box retailer left that does electronics besides all the Apple stores, and Apple is reported to have more people coming into their stores than all the people that go into all four Disney parks on an annual basis in Orlando, That's how many people come in and out of those Apple stores. And did Ron Johnson get the job? Yes. Did he want the job? Yes. And that's, I think about what you're talking about. I mean, that's a philosophy of one individual, but I think that we have to reframe our understanding of how we draw people in to being a part of game changing, whatever it is that why ever we're in business.

[00:56:44] 

And if we're not bought in to making real change for our end user, our customer, our stakeholder, then a potential hire is gonna see it in our eyes. We've gotta have the fire in the passion. And I think that's a big part of what you're talking about, and I think that employers need to get on the bus about not only believing in what they do and communicating that effectively, but also explaining to the potential new hire, how they are a part of that change, and how excited they are for them to be involved in this organization? How often do you see that? Just lay it out. Is this a, Now when me explaining that, is it 10%? Is it 50%? Is it 80%?

[00:57:24] Matt de Miranda

We don't always see behind the curtain during the interviews. Mm-hmm. But I think we could probably speculate based on. It's hard to put a percentage on, but I think that there's, IT is kind of an introverted space where there's very smart thinkers where their best aptitude and is not necessarily their best characteristics, aren't necessarily communication.

[00:57:39] 

Sometimes they're a lot better at writing complex code and things that three sales guys in a room could never do. So I don't know how well that is articulated from an IT standpoint. That is a great question. I think there's certainly people involved interviews. We know through our customers that are like, I hope this guy talks to the candidate, or this lady talks to the candidate.

[00:57:58] 

Cuz we know that they will sell 'em. Yeah. They're the closer we know who they are. But then also in the IT world, it's valuable for the super techy person to talk techy with that person too. So they know. Their technology needs and wants and keeping up with trends and ahead of the curve things are there too.

[00:58:14] 

So from a percentage standpoint, I don't know that we get access to that information cuz we don't sit on those interviews. But I think we know from a just conversational piece that there's certain people that can help close that. And each one of our clients or teams that are interviewing within our clients, like for whoever hears this podcast today, just to be mindful of whenever there's that person we know we need to get, we need to have the right people involved as we would talk like in sales meetings.

[00:58:37] 

And you know, from our spec perspective, from how we'd relate to that is that there might be a meeting that I have that I'm like, I need to have Brian here with me for this one cuz there's gonna be something he's gonna be able to add value to that I can't, that might help me get this one over the edge.

[00:58:49] 

Or I need to have Jim here for this. It's hard to put a percentage on it, but I, I certainly think I get what you're saying.

[00:58:55] Brian Scott

If I'm guessing it's less than 50%. Yeah. But I would say overwhelmingly, we know it when we see it. I have had more candidates this year agree that the position may pay slightly less than other jobs they could get, but they want it because of who they would work for emphatically.

[00:59:16] 

I don't care that it's five grand less, eight grand, less on base salary. I wanna work for that person, for that company, and when it happens, it's beautiful. The other ones seem. A little more commoditized. Yeah, there's five. This one's okay. You want them to be passionate and excited about taking the job and when it's there, it's really cool. Why it doesn't happen more is kind of that mystery that we're trying to help solve and or communicate that it needs to be there. 

[00:59:45] Jim Vizcarra

I think a lot of it's perception we're submitting candidates to apply for a job at a client. Canada doesn't know anything about, we've gone full disclosure, tell 'em if they know about the company, here's their website, here's our relationship, blah, blah, blah.

[00:59:58] 

So I think it's more perception that the client's like, Oh, this person's applying to interview at our job. So they should be thankful. Maybe not. I'm, I'm just kind of looking at like, we gotta the point where you should really sell your opportunity to the candidate just as much as the candidate selling themselves to you.

[01:00:14] 

Right? I mean, it's should go 50 50 both ways. It's the ones that think they're the Apples and the Amazons where people are lined up around the block to work there. And it's like, it's both ways. I mean, we've samples, we can literally go all day. 

[01:00:26] Dr. Nate Salah

But you've hired people, right? Mm-hmm. And when you're hiring, so you guys are professional staffers, right? So when you're hiring. How do you approach that? What do you talk about?

[01:00:37] Matt de Miranda

Well, our motivation is high, so this is our business and our livelihood and we jumped off the cliff, and so we are extremely passionate about it. Where you work at a company with 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 employees, they're sure they're a manager, but I don't know that they have the same vested interest as us.

[01:00:53] 

There was things we loved about our history and professional history and things that we might wanna tweak or change. So I think when we hire and we talk to people, things that are important to us or some of the battle scars we have along the way that we want to make sure aren't in our culture, in our environment, but really we're looking for what we see.

[01:01:11] 

Our big picture and where this thing is headed is make sure that anyone that wants to come join us also can visualize that picture and where we're going and if they wanna be a part of it. We're a small company. It's hard to compete with larger staffing companies, with nicer offices and things. We're a small shop.

[01:01:25] 

We got a small office building our client base. There's a lot of things that may not be attractive to people starting in staffing or coming outta college and want to get into sales. But where we're headed, none of us doubt where we're going is great and where we have already accomplished in a short period of time.

[01:01:40] 

So it's important for me that anybody knows, like, Hey, we're very passionate about the growth and what we're doing and the culture we're building. And if I can't tell you're excited about that, you're not gonna work here. I mean, you need to be excited. You need to see the vision. You have to be behind it.

[01:01:53] 

And by the way, we wanna offer a ton of cool bells and whistles and and fun things outta office and things that keep this thing low stress in a stressful world and stressful. Industry to make it attractive for them too. So it's double sided, but people that are excited about a vision and where we're going and we try to articulate that as a, uh, startup, essentially.

[01:02:11] Dr. Nate Salah

I would contend that if you can even build a 10, 20, 30,000 employee business that has buy in for the vision and why you do what you do, I would argue that you can develop management with that level of committed passion as well. Look at what Elon's doing. Look at, I mean, SpaceX and Tesla, right? Twitter and now Twitter, right?

[01:02:37] 

But it's top down I guess the point I'm making, right? It's top down and that's what leadership is, right? People are always watching the leader to see is the leader vested? Is the leader passionate? Because that energy is contagious, whether it's low or high, and we are the ones that we hold it in our hands.

[01:02:55] 

Whether or not we can can create, like you said, all of you have mentioned the word culture. That culture that is on fire and stays on fire. So what do you guys have to say about that? How do you like to.

[01:03:08] Jim Vizcarra

I. I mean, kind of go off of Matt was saying, you know, we, we wanna see, for me personally, I want to see, cuz it can be very fruitful from a financial standpoint in the staffing industry.

[01:03:17] 

It's a simple model of how you get there. But it's cause we, all three I think are very, we started way before Stryde. I'm just saying in general, our former employer very mode, financially, I mean everything. That's cool, cool company culture, which is what we're, we've created. But not that I expect everyone to make super amount of money, but at least kind of have a goal.

[01:03:38] 

You know, have some, I wanna see some type of self-driven goals throughout the interview. And a candidate if we're talking to someone. Obviously fitting in, you know, we've created an amazing culture that the last thing we'll ever do is disrupt that, but there's just a couple little nuances and pieces that I look for personally. Yeah, we're all three printing agreement of.

[01:03:57] Brian Scott

I think hiring for yourself is the hardest, right? We've all hired thousands of people for other clients, right? This person's perfect. We know it. We sent over with confidence and someone's sitting right in front of you that you're going to hire and pay their paycheck and benefits, and it's a lot more stress and you just don't wanna get it wrong.

[01:04:19] 

And in prior companies hired people that we knew were gonna be rock stars. That turned out to not be very good. And people that didn't interview well, that ended up being great. So it's a very imperfect science and for me, a lot of it's kind of gut feel of do we like 'em, Will they fit in? Do they embody a lot of the same values and morals and just determination and want to help us grow and do something really cool and throw degrees and all the other stuff kind of out the window. It really is just about does it feel good? Does it fit? And if it does, we'll teach 'em everything. They don't know.

[01:05:01] Dr. Nate Salah 

Yeah. Well, you guys are three awesome dudes I would imagine. Everyone that comes into your camp that's a fit would love to work for you. And that's a compliment that, I mean, and you got that cool merch too. I'm peeping the merch. Brian got the Stryde merch. Can I, How do I get some of that? 

[01:05:18] Matt de Miranda

Hey, we got some on order order coming.

[01:05:19] Dr. Nate Salah
As we close, I'm gonna ask you a question and I'd love for you to just take a moment, think about it and answer for it one day. As entrepreneurs, as family, men, as leaders, we'll be at the great summit of life, right at the very end. And as you're looking back at everything you'd accomplished, everyone, every life you've touched, what's one thing that you would want others to have said about you?

[01:05:45] Matt de Miranda

We gotta answer that on the spot?

[01:05:47] Dr. Nate Salah

Yep. . . It's a tough one.

[01:05:50] Jim Vizcarra: 

Personally and professionally in general, I'd like to think they just say I was a good guy and respectful. It's the oldest cliche out there, but. Treat people the way you'd wanna be treated. I don't know. That's good. 

[01:06:01] Brian Scott 

I hope that everybody that comes in contact with me feels that I've added something to their life and they're better for having that relationship, personally, professionally. Any of that? 

[01:06:13] Dr. Nate Salah

Come on brother. Bring us home. Yeah, it's a big one. It's a doozy.

[01:06:16] Matt de Miranda

It's tough. I guess just off the top, someone that people want to be around and just like, and trust and challenge people at the right times and pat 'em on the back on the others. Kind of tie that into parenthood and other things. But it's hard to say one word, but that's a tough one. Let me think about it. 

[01:06:33] Dr. Nate Salah

Okay, well then I'm gonna have you, I'm gonna have to have you, you back on another show.

[01:06:36] Matt de Miranda

Catch you on the next one. We'd love it.

[01:06:36] Dr. Nate Salah

I mean, I've had so much fun enjoying our time together. I know that we've helped some people out there today. I'm just thankful to know you guys and be a part of your journey. Thanks for being on the show.

[01:06:47] Matt de Miranda

Thanks for having us. This was great.

[01:06:48] Jim Vizcarra
Thanks, Nate. Insightful and it was fun.

[01:06:51] Dr. Nate Salah

Awesome. Well, my friend, I am so thrilled that you joined me on this episode of A Call to Leadership, and before you go to the next episode, especially if you're binge listing, take a moment. I would love to get your honest review right here on your screen.

[01:07:08] 

Your feedback is so important. It helps the podcast, it encourages me and it helps me. It helps me to give you more and more and more value. So I can't wait to read your review. I can't wait to be with you on the next episode. I'm Dr. Nate Salah. This is a Call to Leadership.