More than just success and freedom, businesses also have their dark sides. In the first installment of this Business Monday series, Sam and Travis will discuss the four causes of stress and their direct effects on how people run their businesses. Join us as we uncover and explore these topics further!
Key takeaways to listen for
Resources Mentioned In This Episode
About Sam Salah and Travis Revelle
Former corporate executive Travis Revelle switched to entrepreneurship in the internet and healthcare sectors, founding many successful businesses and raising hundreds of millions of dollars for his clients.
Sam Salah is a well-known businessperson and a lifelong serial entrepreneur interested in everything from technology to high-performance vehicles.
This episode is suitable for the C-Suite, entrepreneurs, business leaders, managers, and front-line employees because each of them is a wealth of material and a powerhouse when combined.
Connect with Sam and Travis
LinkedIn: Travis Revelle | Sam Salah
Connect With Us
Master your context with real results leadership training!
To learn more, visit our website at www.greatsummit.com.
For tax, bookkeeping, or accounting help, contact Dr. Nate’s team at www.theincometaxcenter.com or send an email to info@theincometaxcenter.com.
Follow Dr. Nate on His Social Media
More than just success and freedom, businesses also have their dark sides. In the first installment of this Business Monday series, Sam and Travis will discuss the four causes of stress and their direct effects on how people run their businesses. Join us as we uncover and explore these topics further!
Key takeaways to listen for
Resources Mentioned In This Episode
About Sam Salah and Travis Revelle
Former corporate executive Travis Revelle switched to entrepreneurship in the internet and healthcare sectors, founding many successful businesses and raising hundreds of millions of dollars for his clients.
Sam Salah is a well-known businessperson and a lifelong serial entrepreneur interested in everything from technology to high-performance vehicles.
This episode is suitable for the C-Suite, entrepreneurs, business leaders, managers, and front-line employees because each of them is a wealth of material and a powerhouse when combined.
Connect with Sam and Travis
LinkedIn: Travis Revelle | Sam Salah
Connect With Us
Master your context with real results leadership training!
To learn more, visit our website at www.greatsummit.com.
For tax, bookkeeping, or accounting help, contact Dr. Nate’s team at www.theincometaxcenter.com or send an email to info@theincometaxcenter.com.
Follow Dr. Nate on His Social Media
[00:00:00] Travis Revelle
Entrepreneurship is a lifestyle choice. It is. And if you choose that lifestyle, you are going to be an entrepreneur 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. That's just what you're deciding to do.
[00:00:18] Dr. Nate Salah
Hello my friend, and welcome to this two-part business Monday series of A Call to Leadership. We're embarking on a journey of the dark side of entrepreneurship. I've invited Sam Salah and Travis Revelle to co-host these episodes with me, and we're gonna get into some deep waters on the real stressors Entrepreneurs' face, the ones that can debilitate us, the ones that can take us out of the game, but the ways we can also overcome them, I can't wait for you to listen in. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, and this is A Call to Leadership.
[00:00:47] Dr. Nate Salah
Fellas hello. Hi. Here we are. How are you business Monday? I'm great. Good man. This spring you I came in, he told me that you're gonna feed me what? McDonald's. I'm actually feeling pretty good. I'm in good shape. Okay, good. Well You
[00:01:02] Sam Salah
Well, You should. Let's for those of you don't know LA. Nate, as looks really lean right now, lean, very lean, right? Yeah, very lean.
[00:01:11] Dr. Nate Salah
So this is how lean I was in 1998. How old were you in 1998? I was 25 years old in 98 and I've got something to show you guys. I don't know if you hit, for those of you just watched listening, star Ack. This is my Motorola star Ack from 1998. It's my cell phone. I dunno if you remember me back in the day with that. Sam, can I see this real quick? Yeah. Look how comfortable that is. I know, I almost even today, right?
[00:01:35] Travis Revelle
I almost missed that phone. I mean, how comfortable is that?
[00:01:38] Dr. Nate Salah
Did you guys have star attack? I did. If you had a star attack and you just in your, did you say hit me on the hip? That's right. Hit me on the hip.
[00:01:45] Travis Revelle
Yeah. But then, you know, the thing is like you just a call the battery that like goes on the top. You just have a call, you know, like. Yeah. It was so simple. That's it. It was so simple getting dinged with a thousand notifications all day long.
[00:01:57] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. That's awesome. This is, that was back in the day, and the reason why I brought this in today as a prop was as a reminder to kick off our episode on the dark side of entrepreneurship, and he was like, what does your Star Tech have to do with the dark side of entrepreneurship? We’ll during this time I was only in business for three years, and so I started in ‘95 and by the time I had three years in and I was flaunting this cell phone, I was over a hundred thousand dollars, I could barely pay my bills.
[00:02:31]
I could barely make payroll. And I was severely, and I mean, severely stressed out. I mean, almost to the point where I was like, ulcerating, it was really bad. And, you know, we've talked a little bit about this in some of our segments, but we're gonna really dive in tonight to talk about this, what we call the dark side, the negative factors of entrepreneurship.
[00:02:55]
And they can envelop us and. they can dominate our behavior. And so sometimes there's a positive aspect, but we're all confronted with risk as entrepreneurs. And we've got financial risks, we've got career risks, we've got family social risks, right? I mean, I mean, from the financial part, we you know, we put a significant portion of our savings and resources.
[00:03:16]
All of it's at stake, especially if we're going from corporate work to entrepre. The careers we choose, right? Sometimes we can't go back to our old jobs. They don't exist if we fail family constant, right? We not only, and this isn't like, oh, it all goes away. It's always there, right? We put our families at risk.
[00:03:38]
I mean possibility for like permanent scars, all of this. These are all real factors. Psychic risks, right? Are well and wellbeing. All of these are stress. and someone listening today is like, yep, I check all those boxes. Sometimes some boxes are more and sometimes are less. We're gonna talk about entrepreneurial stress and really talk about some different areas of stress and how how we experience them and what we deal with. So I guess the big question is start with is none of this has ever happened to any of you guys, right? All of it. checked all the boxes.
[00:04:12] Travis Revelle
Yeah, I mean, It's like a decent Tuesday, right?
[00:04:16] Dr. Nate Salah
That's Tuesday, right? So true, man. So there's some research I wanna read to you both from Boyd and Gumpert, and I provided the form as well. So they identified what they thought were four causes of stress. I wanna talk through all four of 'em. Number one, I interestingly, they put loneliness as the first part of entrepreneurial stress. Here's what they say. Entrepreneurs are isolated from persons whom in whom they can; they tend not to participate in social activities unless there is some business benefit. Like where does loneliness fit into your, or has fit into your stress of being an entrepreneur? Have you ever felt lonely as an entrepreneur?
[00:04:59] Travis Revelle
Yes, and think that comes from right, like. You're trying to do something, and let's say, you know, you've got this idea, this vision that you're trying to accomplish. And so, you know, every moment of the day is like a chess game in your head, right? Like trying to move along and get your vision going. And even when you have some you start hiring employees, you know, you've gotta be the strong.
[00:05:28]
You know what I mean? Like that's what you think, you know what I mean? Right. And you're like I'm the boss. This is my business. Like I've gotta be this strong person. Like I can't show weakness, you know? And then I think for me, right, as a man, like with my family, I also feel the pressure of being the strong person, right? Like not to show like you want your family to, to be comfortable. You want them to feel like everything's gonna be great. You know what I mean? Like, you're constantly selling this dream of this is gonna be great, you know? And meanwhile inside you're I always like to say like, I'm in the ocean treading water as fast as I can, just to keep your head above water.
[00:06:10]
But I think from society, right? Being, and I I don't, I can't say it's like this. If you're a female entrepreneur, I would assume it's very similar, but from a societal standpoint, right? The man is supposed to have it together. You know, the provider, the protector, you know the planner, right? Like you've got life, really, it's on your shoulders and unfortunately, right? Like we're all human and, there isn't a a playbook, right? When you're starting a business to say, okay, this is, these are all the things I need to do that lead to success. And so, you know, you're going through all this turmoil and yet to everybody externally, you need to feel like you, you feel like you need to have it all together.
[00:06:50]
Yeah. And so another analogy would be like a duck, right? On the surface, the duck is calm and smooth and nothing is going on, but underneath it's kicking its feet like crazy and it's going outta control. And so I feel this a lot, like even if things are successful, right? I still feel this. And part of it is probably my upbringing with not like sharing a lot or not showing quote unquote weakness, even though I don't think it's weakness to show that right.
[00:07:18]
But like we're all product of our environments. And that's the environment in which I was raised. And so, I think this is a big one. I think that this is something that affects men. Again, I can't say anything about females, right? Cause I'm not a female. But like from a man's perspective, from my perspective, this is a huge issue for men in general, especially entrepreneurs who are out there with families trying to follow their vision.
[00:07:46] Sam Salah
Yeah, that's good. That's really good. Travis, personally, of all these things, this is the one I experienced the least for multiple reasons. Mainly, you know, I had mentors, I had people around me to help me. Even when it was bad, I didn't, you know, you talked about the family aspect, even when it was bad and I was. I was really good at not sharing that and not bringing that with me home.
[00:08:18]
My wife would've never known how bad it was, at what point it was bad, but I did not allow failure to be an option for me. You're gonna fail. But in my men, my, what you would call my mindset, cause it wasn't an option because of my family, because of what would happen if I didn't succeed. So I didn't feel that so much. Like I was on an island and I'm by myself and, but I've always soughted mentorship, we always talk about have someone that you can speak, even if you're like a solopreneur and
[00:08:53]
You don't have a partner, you don't have a mentor reach. Get a mentor because this is why you need one. You need someone to talk this stuff through. Someone I'm recent, recently started coaching. Their biggest thing was this aspect to have to make decisions on their own, not knowing if they were the right ones, which can cause a feeling of lone, who else am I here to talk to? Right. It's just me, my responsibility, and if I fail, it affects everybody. Yeah. It's a huge weight. It's interesting to me that's number one, and it's kind of surprising when I think about my experience as an entrepreneur. Your vision is yours. It's your success, your failure. I never really looked at it beyond, so I didn't feel this so much. Yeah, right? I can see where people do.
[00:09:52] Dr. Nate Salah
Oh, yeah. In fact, one of our, one of the newest members of our group, one of the reasons why, for our mastermind group, one of the re, one of the critical reasons we wanted to join was this, number one. He's like, it is so lonely. I, my entire peer group is they're nine to five ERs, they have no idea what I'm going through. Starting a business, all of the challenges, the struggles, all of the what ifs and I just can't have conversations with them. Yeah. Because they don't, I can't have those kind of conversations with 'em. I can explain it, but unless you are living it, can you really understand it?
[00:10:25] Travis Revelle
No, and I, unfortunately, right, like I've lost I don't say I've lost friends, right? Because I mean, they're still friends, right? I mean, they're still there. But when I started. My own company, I kind of ran into the same thing, right? Like my peer group all had nine-to five-jobs. I mean, I come from a very blue-collar city. So a lot of the, you know, my friends that I grew up with, you know, were in some type of trade.
[00:10:52]
And so, you know, it would be one of those conversations where, you know, they would tell me about all the things that are going on in their work, and they'd be like, what's going on with your work? And I'm just like, it's great. You know, because I don't even know how to begin to tell the story to somebody who isn't doing what I'm doing to say this is what I did today.
[00:11:12]
Because there's no context there for somebody to be like, oh, I understand. And not only is there no context, and this is gonna come off rude, and I'm not meaning it to be, but there's not gonna be any advice that person can give me. Right. Because they don't know, and I don't expect them to know.
[00:11:29]
Right. And so I'm the type of person that I don't want to burden anybody, right? Like, I don't want to dump that on somebody, especially if I don't believe that person. Give me anything back. Right. It's so, I don't I just, so then I just don't, and you know, a lot of my friends that I used to hang out with, like in my early twenties you know, I don't anymore.
[00:11:53]
And we're still friends, you know, and I mean, we'll still message each other, but it's just it's different. We're in different places and, you know, I travel a lot, you know what I mean? Like, I'm all over the place. And so, you know, having a schedule for trying to. I mean, like Sam and I, it took us like three months just to plan one night to go out and grab dinner, you know, because it's like, oh, the kids and this and that, and there's all these different variables. And yet, and it becomes lonely, you know? I mean, it be, does become lonely because you're going through this emotional roller coaster every single day and you have a big win. You kind of look around to wanna celebrate it with somebody, but like.
[00:12:32] Dr. Nate Salah
It's an interesting dynamic the, this aspect of loneliness, cuz it doesn't necessarily pop up just when you are maybe isolated in a physical sense because there's that mental isolation you're talking about.
[00:12:45]
It's like you can be isolated when things are going wrong or you're like, okay, I have major issues, I've gotta figure it out. It's just me. Right? But at the same time, flip it and when things are going, you can still be alone because it's like, not like you're gonna tell your peers, yeah, I just made a million bucks.
[00:13:06]
Right? Right. Or we've got this, you know, amazing thing going on. Right. There's still that, I mean, they can it's a, it's such a terse sort of place to be as an entrepreneur when it comes to this single aspect of loneliness where you can't really share all the aspects of your life. No. You know, no. You can't just talk about your day at work.
[00:13:25] Sam Salah
No. Yeah. So one of the most difficult questions I get asked is, what do you do? A hundred percent? So that's number one most difficult question I get asked, like, how long do you have? You know, you said the what-ifs. You know, entrepreneurs risk the what-ifs for what's possible. Do we know the risk? We know things can go bad. What if you file bankruptcy? What if you get divorced? What? what if for the hope of what's possible?
[00:13:57] Dr. Nate Salah
And you do that alone, I mean, yeah, you may have peers and mentors and all that and they can support you, but at the end of the day, like it's you in that bed at night sweating when that what if turns into an Oh no, and it will. What can go wrong? Yeah. When not if will.
[00:14:20] Sam Salah
Yeah. We can't go wrong. Will. Yeah.
[00:14:23] Dr. Nate Salah
Most cases it's real. It's a real source of stress. How about this second one? This is good because we're all. We're all on the boat immersion in business, most entrepreneurs are married to their business. They work long hours, which leaves them with little or no time For civic. I love that. Civic recreation.
[00:14:44] Sam Salah
I'll take this first, if you don't mind.
[00:14:45] Dr. Nate Salah
Go. Go for it. Wait, let me tell a story. Yeah, we were at Disney World and kids were little. And Sam, I had, so I had gotten to the point where I turned my Star Tech off at Disney World. Sam had not yet. Got to that point and we were in a line. I still don't shut my phone off. We were in a line, he's on the phone. Something's going on. Kids are all over the place. And I'm like, yeah, this dude has not learned how to turn his business off when he's at an amusement park. Now, I'm not saying that it hasn't happened to me. I've been at the, I literally have been at the amusement park helping a client get through an issue like I'm at an amusement park. Seriously. But I've had to do it too. So I just wanna preface it with, Yeah. Yeah. I'm probably the worst at this.
[00:15:39] Sam Salah
I think it takes being obsessed about something to be successful. Now you can, there's levels of obsessed, but I believe that the people who are obsessed with being successful, their business, their health, how they look, always look better, always perform better and I believe there's a level of that's needed in order to achieve success. Example, like, like you said, we go to the beach a couple times a year. It's not like this now. Used to be when I was more into trenches, my brother, cause we go with our family and my brother's family would be there or, and I would find the nearest desk in,
[00:16:24]
My iPad would be out, my keyboard. It was like the first thing I put out there and I would be completely content myself with looking out the window, seeing the beach, and having my iPad open with a coffee. And I was completely content sending emails. I used to say going on vacation is just a different office space. That's how I defined it. I knew that I had support, probably much more support from my wife and my family than most people did. From a perspective of that's what he is, that's what he does. I'm not gonna beat him up for it. But you get to a point where you realize in you're second act you're, you know, 45 years old.
[00:17:09]
You know that, that time it should not be a distraction anymore. That, but you work. put yourself in a position where you don't have to do that. But even if I didn't have to do it at the time, I would've did it. So as much as I would love to say, you don't have to be obsessed with success to achieve it. I believe you do. There is damage that could be done. There is you know, family frustrations, risk analysis that maybe is too high, which puts stress on everything. There is a cause and effect to obsessing over success.
[00:17:51]
And there's, it's not all good collateral damage. Let's say there's collateral damage with being successful, I would phrase it, you're gonna be very success, most successful people, take Elon, take Bezos. What have they done? They've changed the world, but look around them. Divorced. Oh yeah. Right. Divorced, multiple kids everywhere. You know what I mean? Is there a price to pay, basically? Right. Collateral damage.
[00:18:16] Dr. Nate Salah
There's absolutely collateral damage. And it's a source of stress. Yeah. It's a hundred percent source of stress. Like who? Like. don't tell me that working, you know, 80-hour weeks is not stressful. It's very stressful. You remember back in the day.
[00:18:25] Travis Revelle
Absolutely. But I also believe that, you know, if you're a lawyer, a doctor, a high-level executive at any large company, you're obsessed with your job. You have to be, you know what I mean? I mean, this is what you do, this is who you are.
[00:18:41] Sam Salah
You know? No, you know what? I'm gonna cut, you know what, what made me just think about what did they used to say? Which is? Uttermost statement I've ever heard Work smarter, not harder. That’s so. General.
[00:18:55] Travis Revelle
Because most people spend so much time trying to figure out a workaround rather than just doing the work and they would get, they would be done. You know what I mean? It's work smarter and harder.
[00:19:05] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. It's not an, it's not an either or It's an an it. And it's so like, you know, I work smarter, not harder.
[00:19:13] Travis Revelle
But I think, you know, the difference is like, you know, if you're and this is not to put anybody down, but if you're a mid-level manager in, in, in a decent company, right? Like you, you have tasks that you need to do and you want to get them done as efficiently as possible and go on about your day, right? But if you're an entrepreneur, I mean it, that's your entrepreneurship is a lifestyle choice. It is. And if you choose that lifestyle, You are going to be an entrepreneur 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. That's just what you're deciding to do. And a lot of people, I don't think, get it right.
[00:19:48]
They like, oh my gosh, I wanna be an entrepreneur. I wanna run a business. I wanna have all this free time. I wanna just do what I wanna do and make a lot of money. It's fantastic. But it's also like winning a lottery ticket, right? Like the chances of that happening are slim to none in the you have to work for it and you're gonna work harder. Now, when you're working hard like that, the only difference is you can look yourself in the mirror and you can say, I'm doing this for myself, for my family. Yeah. Not for some corporation. Right?
[00:20:17]
Not for some, for sure. You know, board of directors or some boss. But I think that amps up the pressure that you put internally. At least it should amp up the pressure that you're doing internally. Nobody's coming to save you. Yeah. Like nobody's coming to save you. Yeah. Like you're deciding that you're leaving the safety of the tribe, and you're gonna go out and hunt on your own. And if you're successful, great. If you're not, no one's coming to save you. So you gotta save yourself?
[00:20:48] Sam Salah
I don't believe, I don't believe in my experience that if you're not willing to put in the work, you're gonna be successful. You're. Be successful because at the end of the day, the commitment it takes and the risk it takes to become success, and you could define success in many ways.
[00:21:05]
I mean, it doesn't have to mean you make $5 million a year. It could mean you make a hundred thousand dollars a year, but you have your, but you're your own boss. But you know, the entrepreneur that gets into business thinking he's gonna work a six to eight hour. every day and be successful? Not likely, in my opinion. Not likely, depending on what you're doing. But I would say, Hey, you need to give up your nights, weekends, whatever it takes to be successful because you've risked your whole life on this bet. So how important is it to you to make it to the finish line?
[00:21:40] Travis Revelle
That's right. And I think that if you go into it with the understanding that, look, I. The A meme. A meme, right? This is where we all, we got a lot of them. We've got a lot of memes. Right. But my wife shared this meme with me right when we started our company, and I think I talked about it before. Yeah. But it was it's pretty simple. Entrepreneurship is living a few years, like others, people won't to live the rest of your life, like other people can't. And, right. And like it's, there's generals nuances in there, right. Obviously, right, but I think that kind of sums it up, right? Like are you willing to go through the bootcamp, which could last 10 years, 20 years, a year, six months? There's no telling, right? Are you willing to go through the pain and sacrifice to hopefully, right?
[00:22:25]
Like you said, for the hope that there's a payoff in the end, which I believe just like you, if you have a good business plan, you've done your research, you've done everything, and you put the work, eventually, you will get there, but there is no set timetable. Right? And the other thing is once you get there doesn't mean you're there forever, right? Like, it's like business is all as forever. No, but I mean it you go through waves, right? So, so one month, one year, one decade, you may be just killing it or you may be struggling. Something happens the exact opposite. You start doing great, or your business contracts, you're always in this give and take.
[00:23:02]
And so you've gotta really enjoy the time where you get to have the moments in your career where things are rolling well, and you can kind of, you know, take a step back a little bit and work those six, eight hour days. But you can't start off with six or eight hour days. No, you can't go into it.
[00:23:19] Sam Salah
That mind process, if you. Naturally putting in more than that, then you're not your mind is not there. Your mindset's not there. Agreed. And a lot of entrepreneurs have it, like you said, good for a while. They get comfortable. The edge is kind of not there anymore. They, oh, I've made it. The money's coming in, and then something changes, economy changes, covid, something. And then you gotta have, turn that hustle back on. And sometimes you've gotten so lazy. and so com comfort is enemy of pro progress.
[00:23:46]
Cuz the more comfort you have, the harder it is for some people to remain sharp. You know, we like to challenge ourselves, you know, we know that it's very easy to make a bunch of money, get a bunch of comfort, get a bunch of it's like when Jordan quit playing basketball, right?
[00:24:01] Dr. Nate Salah
What happens when he comes back? He's. I mean, you know, it takes, yeah. If you get off, if you get off that edge , you're gonna, it's gonna be a, it's gonna be a process. I really liked the conversation about like, it's so on you. I like that conversation when you were talking about it's you're the level of effort required in the beginning and throughout any stage of the entrepreneurial journey. I. When I was just getting started, all my buddies who were graduating from college, great jobs engineering and different jobs, 30, 40, $50,000, and in the nineties, that was great money to start, and they had their two weeks vacation, they had their pto and me, I was scrounged in those nickels because I was like, my star Tech wasn't gonna pay the bills, right?
[00:24:52]
I had to just pound it out and they were able to do all these cool things and I wasn’t and I was like, man, this is hard. This is really difficult. However, over time the curve changes, right? The curve changes to where there's a plateau with the nine to five, I don't care what it is, a hundred, 150, whatever that number looks like, maybe it's 200. But with entrepreneurship, you do it. There's no curve. There's no curve. I mean, it doesn't plateau. You keep going and going, and then guess what happens? Then it's like now you've got scale. Now you've got teams. Now you can say, boy, I can take my foot off the gas a little bit. Here's the other side of it is that you become the kind of person like us who doesn't really take your foot out the gas, doesn't mean that you're still working 80 hours. But it means that your time, your time immersion in business is not as stressful as it once was.
[00:25:53]
It's stressful early on, but for me it's, same thing with vacations. I've learned to turn most of it off on vacation. Not a hundred percent of it, but you're right. Like, the true entrepreneur, like vacation. For me, it's always been, it's a vacation for my wife and my kid and whoever we're bringing, and for I'm there. I am as immersed as I possibly can be. There's still work to be done. Agree. You can never stop. In fact and doesn't mean and not just at the small business level, the medium and large. I remember reading stories when I was working on my research with Steve Jobs, having to fly from a Hawaii vacation back to the Apple campus, right? It's like family, I gotta go. We got an issue, right? Just, I mean, you got tremendous resources, all that money, right? All these teams, all this leadership, and you still have to be.
[00:26:38] Sam Salah
Yeah, and I don't think be present. I don't think it's like a sob story, either. I wouldn't want any other, I mean, you're not doing it cuz you like, yeah, you have to, but there's a difference between having to do that, check some emails, have a take a call on vacation, or having to be in the office at nine o'clock in the morning because someone told you had to be there. It's options.
[00:26:56] Dr. Nate Salah
It's options. It's options. Options. I love that.
[00:26:59] Travis Revelle
Options. Yeah, it's options. Entrepreneurship allows, And I went through the same thing, right? I mean, I told you most of my friends went into, you know, some type of skilled trade. So by, you know, 20 years, They're making 20 bucks an hour back in year 2000. You know what I mean? So they're bawling, you know? I mean, like, they want to go out on the weekends and like you kids.
[00:27:19] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. There was a lot of money back in.
[00:27:21] Travis Revelle
That was a lot of money. 20 years making, you're making 20 bucks an hour at 20 years old in year two thousand's, you're chilling. You know what I mean? That's a lot like, yeah. Back then they're buying houses, you know what I mean? They've got brand new trucks, like they've got all the $10 and dollars a lot. Yeah. They've got all the stuff. And I didn't and so it, it's one of those things, but now, like you said, fast forward 20 years and look, they still do great. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, they have the quote-unquote American dream, you know, they go to work, they make a good money, they come home. It is what it is, but they
[00:27:53]
Don't have options. Right? I have options. They can never go do something else besides what they're doing right now. Because that's their skillset that they've honed in on. Now they can start over, but they're not gonna be, they're not gonna go transfer from one to another. We, as entrepreneurs, we can say, you know what? This new technology, this new business venture, this new thing that's out there, I can take my skillsets that I have and I can either start a new startup, I can invest into a new company. I can pick on a new product.
[00:28:24]
We can choose what we want to do. And I think that's really from an entrepreneur standpoint, for me that's where it's at, right? You have options to do what you want. You can choose not to go to work. No one's gonna, no one's gonna, no one's gonna call you and yell to you. You know what I mean? Like, you wanna stay in bed like great, stay in bed. Not gonna lead to success, but you have options to do what you want to do.
[00:28:48] Sam Salah
So there's a deal made when you decide to do as an employer, you buy other people's time. As an employee, you sell your time, decide what you wanna do, not one. This is not a either way, like it may be a better deal for you to sell your time and not have the stress and the risk and all those other things. But as an entrepreneur, buying other people's time for one day, having like you like the meme. A life. Yeah. That everybody dreamed of. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:29:22] Dr. Nate Salah
Yep. So, I'm glad you brought that up because that's our third source of stress. People problems. Most entrepreneurs experience frustration, disappointment, aggravation in their experience with people. This is a true statement. Because people will make us or break us, not only externally, internally.
[00:29:45]
We're frustrated sometimes with sometimes the people in our family who don't understand us. Sometimes we're frustrated with the people in our businesses, our employees. Sometimes we're frustrated with our partners. People are a constant source of frustration in one way or another. When you've felt the most frustration or disappointment or a aggravation with. What's that look like?
[00:30:09] Sam Salah
It's usually with entrepreneurs that I experience. Man, they just don't care the way I do. They. Entrepreneurs want people to work for them to care the way they do, and it's not a contract that works that way. And we are, my, my way to lead is to. Have something to offer beyond a paycheck. If you don't have something to offer beyond a paycheck, don't expect them to have buy-in beyond a paycheck, which in turn will, if money is all that keeps your people there, you're gonna lose people. You're gonna have an unhappy work environment or a bad company culture.
[00:30:55]
Don't expect them to care like you because it's your business. So if you accept that there's a level, there's levels, right? So there's this level that I built this business, I've risked everything. I'm gonna be so passionate about this business being successful. Your employee looks at it. I come in every day, you pay me to be here for a certain amount of and I want to go home.
[00:31:20]
And I don't want to care beyond that, how do you achieve that? And it's very simple. Create organizational culture that people want to be a part of. Make them feel included. Share your vision and you'll be more than a paycheck. People problems stem from shared vision that is not implemented properly or implemented at all. It's not an inclusive proposition with your employee. Is your proposition inclusive? Is your organization inclusive to your employees in more than just a financial benefit? If it is, you fall right in here.
[00:32:04] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, it's a good point you make. Cause we sometimes imbue what we, our own type of philosophy of achievement on them. It's not fair. It's not fair. It's not fair.
[00:32:15] Travis Revelle
It's not fair. It's not fair. You're setting every route for failure, right? Like you said it's your company. No, there's, you shouldn't have an employee that cares about it more than you. Right? If you do, that's a problem. You know what I mean? Like, that's not, that's a problem with you, you know?
[00:32:28]
But I think, right, like, I mean, I've had, I think I've had about every type of people, problem, issue, you know, whether it's partnerships, you know, people, you know, want to do, they wanna make different decisions different ways. But that's, you can fix that with a good op agreement, right? There's a lot of things you can do here, right?
[00:32:46]
Like, good op agreement lays out how the partnership works, you know what I mean? There's a disagreement, you follow the paper you're having problems with your employees. It's mostly because I would say, you know, entrepreneurs have a single vision, and they've got it figured out in their head the way that it's supposed to look. And sometimes success doesn't look the way that you think it's gonna look. Right? And, but you're so laser-focused on this one thing that you're not seeing the forest through the trees. The other thing is that's, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs don't have leadership training. You know, they're, they have an idea and they don't necessarily know how to lead people.
[00:33:21]
And so, you know, I think that there. Skill issues when it comes to people problems where you just don't have the right skill sets and you can go learn those or there's structural issues, right? You didn't set the company up the right way. You and your partners didn't lay out in an op agreement The way this is gonna work, anytime I go into partnership with somebody, I always wanna make sure that everybody understands a couple.
[00:33:47]
Here's the business, here's the expectation I have of you. Here's the expectation you have of me, and if we disagree, here's how we fix that. And if worst case scenario, we need to get a divorce, this is exactly how we get a divorce, right? You lay those things out prior to starting a company, you won't have those issues with a partner, right? Because it's already been predetermined how those issues will work themselves out.
[00:34:11] Sam Salah
Yeah. Most partnerships break up because the value proposition.
[00:34:15] Travis Revelle
Somebody's working harder, somebody's working harder, somebody's not upholding their bargain. There's a tough decision that needs to be made. You guys have different ideas on how you want to take it. One person wants to take a company one way. There's a thousand things, right? But a lot of this from an entrepreneur standpoint, you can address these issues upfront. You know, if you're having problems with your people, take a leadership course.
[00:34:38]
Right. Read a leadership book. Right. I mean, I'm sure we can give you a thousand, you know, where to start, you know, and how to start to address those issues. If it's a partner problem, you know what to do. Right. If it's a home life issue, it's a little harder. Right. But I think it all comes back down to communicating effectively. Yeah. Whether you're talking to an employee, a partner, or a family member,
[00:35:00] Dr. Nate Salah
I love the conversation around expect. Really, this is like, I think this is the Achilles heel of why we get frustrated with people, so we have misguided, or misunderstood expectations. Right. Just based on what you said about communication, especially like you said in partnerships, I think most partnerships fail for the same reasons, vision and expectations.
[00:35:17]
Right? We didn't have our expectations lined up clearly. Our vision was moving in a different direction, or it fails because our expectation was that if this, and this happens we'll, we will. dissolve the agreement, right? It's just as simple. I, you know, my philosophy, trusting God, everybody else get it in writing paper, right? Yeah. So you bring up something interesting because I was thinking about the frustrations people have in a business, right? You have a frustration with your banker because you need access to capital, and they won't give you a line of credit did I understand what the terms would be, right? I have to have two years in business.
[00:35:51]
I have to have X dollars, right? All these, do I have to have assets or collateral, things like, What was my expectation? How was it wrong? What about issues with your customer, right? Accounts receivables. People aren't paying me, right? What are your systems, right? Why don't you have that one ach? Why don't you have a, an agreement? I have everybody who, I have a client who has rental properties. I tell them in your agreement, one day late begins collection. and eviction notices. You say, Nate, I seem so extreme. No, not really, because then they realize, okay, I gotta pay this bill first. Yeah. I will get frustrated with my tenants who aren't paying me because it's my fault, because I set the wrong expectation happen to me.
[00:36:40]
Back in the day, I had tenants who was slow pay. Yeah. First it was 500 off and it was a thousand. I was like you know, I'm $8,000 later, they move out. Gone forever, right? Whose fault is that? Why am I frustrated? Why am I stressed out? Right? Totally. 100%. Oh, it's not me. And as we understand this better, our sources of stress regarding this same thing with employees, like you said, vendors, all of it can, we can mitigate some of this stress by having the right expectations that are clearly. Identified before by the, hey, by the way, before we get into a relationship.
[00:37:19] Travis Revelle
No, and that's why, you know, I, and I really, cuz I think, you know, the people that are listening to this, right? They're either new entrepreneurs who are getting into the business and the thing that I would, you know, or they're probably existing and they've had some issues, right? But I'm telling you right now, right? Like when you go into business there, there are a couple people that you absolutely must identify for your team. One is an account. One is an attorney, right? Like those two people will pay for themselves in spades over time because they're gonna set you up the right way.
[00:37:53]
Right? Entrepreneurship, people, you know, you have an idea, you're super passionate, you just wanna make it happen, right? You just and I think the three of us are a lot like this in our early twenties, right? Like it's just, we're gonna run through that. We're going to, their failure is not an option, right? We're gonna make it happen. And we're so focused on making it happen that we don't set up and structure ourselves properly, right? For the long haul. And so anybody who's new or you've been in business for, I don't care, 10 years, if you don't have an accountant and you don't have an attorney, go find one.
[00:38:28] Dr. Nate Salah
I love that first thing. Yeah. First thing, and this is what I in fact, this is textbook what we teach at the university when they're enter an entrepreneurship. and I'll get pushback from students and they'll say I can't afford an an accountant or an attorney. Like, and then I'll respond and say can you afford your cell phone bill? I have to. Why? Because you think it's necessary. That's why. , don't start your business without the necessary people, because without the necessary people, you will have these stressors regarding people and it will drive you nuts. It might even drive you outta business. Absolutely. Yeah. All, let me move on.
[00:39:03] Travis Revelle
The real quick. Yeah. The best partners you can have if you're starting a business, is finding an accountant and an attorney that you wanna go into business with and just bring 'em in house it does work out really well good plug.
[00:39:14] Dr. Nate Salah
Need to achieve. This can be a stressor. This one's actually a little surprising, like, ah, how could that be stressor? But achievement does bring satisfaction. However, many entrepreneurs are never satisfied with their work, no matter how well it's. I thought that's simmer for just a second. Are you a perfectionist?
[00:39:38] Travis Revelle
Yeah, but I think this is a double-edged sword, personally, I think this is this gonna be a good thing or a bad thing. Right. I think the bad thing is probably a younger entrepreneur, somebody who's fresh, you know, going through it six months in a year in they're working a ton. They're doing everything they need. Right. But it hasn't happened yet. Right. And so I think entrepreneurs also need to have a very high level of patience, which is hard for me to say cause I'm not a patient person.
[00:40:09]
However you know, I mean, let's phrase it right, like you you, to make that step to be an entrepreneur, right? Like so many things in your life have to be set up a certain way. You know, like you've gotta have a certain kind of personality type. You've gotta have kind of an idea. You've gotta have this feeling that you can do it better than anybody else has done it before, right? Otherwise, what are you doing, right? Like, I mean, what are you really doing? Right? And so you have all these things, you're probably a high achiever. You probably could go to a corporate world and do really well, right? Like you could probably be the, you know, be that, that the golden employee because you're gonna work hard and.
[00:40:42]
And so when you don't have that achievement to kind of the gas along the way that's reinforcing, yes, I'm doing the right things right I'm getting some wins, I'm doing the right things. I can totally see where that can be a huge, you know, impact on somebody. On the flip side, as seasoned entrepreneurs, I think that this is what continues to keep. The great entrepreneurs, I'm not saying we're great, but I'm just saying people like us right. Continues to keep us sharp and in the zone is it's never done. It's never done. And so we know that I think like the three of us know, like we're never gonna have a company where we sit back and we just go, yeah, this is perfect.
[00:41:25] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. Our retirement, like that word, is a four-letter word to me. Yeah. Like there's like, what is retirement? It's like, to me that's like going into like to prison to say, sounds miserable. You can't do anything, but relax, like, you might as well just shoot me. Right, right. I'm not built for that. I wired that way. No, I'm always gonna be doing something. A hundred percent. Sam, what about you?
[00:41:45] Sam Salah
There's always a new level and there's never a final level. I don't think there'll ever be a final level, a final boss that we have to beat. No. You know, once you, once your business does, you know there's benchmarks, you know, there's financial benchmarks that are really and you know, if you accomplish maybe your vision and maybe part of that's like making a million dollars a year. Okay, then you do that. Maybe you want your company to do 5 million, then you do that. Maybe, you know what, five, I think I can get to 10. I think that's how entrepreneurs brains work. Yeah. And you know, comfort is the enemy of progress.
[00:42:25]
We don't stay comfortable from the perspective. being uncomfortable. I'm, if you make 5 million a year, you're definitely comfortable, but are you comfortable with that 5 million a year? No. You'll be like, no, I can make 10 million a year. I wanna get to the point where I can. And at this point, your life hasn't changed a whole lot. It's just a number. It's a level. It's a new level. I remember I had these, and you know this already, and Travis probably does too, is I wanted to be to a point. Obviously, I'm a big car guy, big car enthusiast. There was levels of vehicles that I wanted to be able to buy, right? You know, the first one I wanted buy GT500.
[00:43:02]
I wanted to go walk in a dealership. That's the one I want. I'll be done. Okay. You achieve that, you know? Then what's the next level? You know? Buy another one, buy four or five of 'em. Then ATH gets kind of, okay, I can do those. Let's get into now I bought my first, you know, or a while ago. And like, I want to be able to do that, and then I want to be able to buy a $200,000 car without it really affecting me. And you get to these levels, right? And then for some it's financial. For some it's just being able to do it. It's not about like flex, like a flex or it's not about, it's just that you can, it's just that I can, so, so the I can is so big in my world. It's like I can go on vacation whenever I want. I can go if I like that.
[00:43:44]
I wanna be able to know that I'm not, ugh, I don't want to, I don't want to feel like I can't do something. Or you don't want buyer's remorse. I don't want, I I don't want to, I don't want to. If I walk in, I'll tell you how I, you know, this already, you know, if there's levels. So then I meet people that are maybe, I'm like, man, I think I'm at this level and I meet this guy. I'm like, you know what, man? I got some work to do. I wanna be at this level. Right? So I feel like that's like the way we're wired and that's our mindset. For me, it was always like, vehicles were big and you know, get to a point where you own five, six vehicles today. You know, I own five, six vehicles now.
[00:44:21]
It's not even like exciting to me anymore. So now what's exciting, right? I'm in my second act, right? That's I love cars, I love buying cars. I love buy, you know, and I do it all the time, buy and sell cars all the time. But what really gets me excited now is that team member that says working here changed my life. Yeah. Or seeing, you know, our employee roster with 50 new people. And new agreements and that's cool. Right? Yeah. And then for me, so now what really, you know, my need to achieve is to be impactful in any way, shape, or form that I can do that.
[00:45:04] Dr. Nate Salah
Would you be more impactful with a Bugatti? It's coming. It's on the list,
[00:45:08] Sam Salah
It's on the list. It's on the list. But again, it's not even the item anymore. It's just the ability.
[00:45:16] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. It's the ability. It's the ability. Yeah. But these are real stressors and if someone listening today is like, This is I've you've hit the button at, on at least one of these and all of them at some time come into play and, but that's not the end of the story. In fact, cliffhanger, another one. I think we did a cliffhanger last Series's episodes. Cliffhanger. Listen next week, and we're gonna talk about how to deal. Yeah. With these stressors. Well, my friend, I am so thrilled that you joined me on this episode of A Call to Leadership. And before you go to the next episode, especially if you're binge-listing, take a moment.
[00:45:52]
I would love to get your honest review right here on your screen. Your feedback is so important. A podcast, it encourages me and it helps me. It helps me to give you more and more and more value. So I can't wait to read your review. I can't wait to be with you on the next episode. I'm Dr. Nate Salah. This is A Call to Leadership.