A Call To Leadership

EP258: Why Hire a Boomer with Dan Paulson

• Dan Paulson

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Generational gaps in the workplace don’t have to be barriers. They can be opportunities for growth and innovation. In this episode, we’ll share insights on leveraging the unique strengths of each generation to create a thriving workplace culture. So, if you’re ready to transform your team into a cohesive powerhouse, tune in now and unlock the full potential of your workforce!


 Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • Why seasoned employees are invaluable for mentorship, knowledge transfer, and organizational success
  • How to overcome generational stereotypes to unlock team potential and foster respect
  • Practical tips on creating a balanced, inclusive culture that bridges generational divides
  • Strategies for building a strong, connected team in a hybrid or remote work environment
  • The hidden benefits of intergenerational collaboration for problem-solving and innovation



Resources Mentioned In This Episode



About Dan Paulson

Dan Paulson is a business strategist and leadership coach with nearly two decades of experience helping leaders achieve sustainable growth and personal fulfillment. Growing up on a Wisconsin farm, he learned the values of hard work and resilience. Since 2005, Dan has guided business owners to align profitability with purpose, transforming their companies into vehicles for meaningful impact and improved quality of life.



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[00:00:00] Dr. Nate Salah
The decision to hire someone based on their age can be dangerous. However, we've, we've faced this where we look at someone and say, well, they're too young, they're too old, et cetera. And sometimes that can lead us to, to not having the kind of organization that has the breadth and scope of the diversity necessary to really accomplish the experience we desire to create. And we've got to dispel some myths about some age. Age isms between different generations, millennials, Gen Xers, baby boomers. Of course, we've got Gen Z coming in and all of the conversations around whether or not someone's a fit based on their generation. Now, there are some things that are stereotypes that are probably somewhat true across the generation. However, what if we could utilize that to our advantage? Well, I've invited Dan Paulson to join me in a conversation. He is an expert in this area. He is the chief. Plateau Buster for InVision Development International. And we're going to break this down and come up with some real-world solutions for the challenges we face in intergenerational teams and how we bring them on. Dan, welcome to the show. 

[00:01:23] Dan Paulson
Thanks for having me, Nate. Appreciate being on. 

[00:01:26] Dr. Nate Salah
Absolutely. Well, your wealth of knowledge in the space of employment and different types of people who are working in organizations is so invaluable, especially today. And, you know, you and I know the, the, the importance of the right fit, the right people in your organization that fit your culture, that fit your commitment to excellence and the, and really the, the experience that we're attempting to create. And I think, you know, there's all different kinds of stereotypes that we have, uh, in the workplace and one stereotype that, that, you know, is kind of, uh, uh, the elephant in the room today is, you know, what do we do, what do we do with those individuals who are seasoned, yet. Are maybe exiting the workplace in the next 5, 10, 15 years and and employers may, of course, we can't discriminate, right? We can't discriminate. 

[00:02:22] Dan Paulson
Well, at least not on paper. We can't on paper.

[00:02:26] Dr. Nate Salah
But does it really happen? Does it? Does it happen? 

[00:02:27] Dan Paulson
It does happen. Unfortunately, when you look at the age of somebody who has a lot of experience, um, The business owner looks at that and says, well, if this person's only going to be here, let's say another five years. Do I want somebody there that I have to pay a premium for? Or do can I get somebody who's going to be around for 20 years and I can pay maybe half as much now? Here's the ridiculousness of that discussion. Uh, right now, I think the average length of time a person stays in their job is two to three years. So if you're looking for a candidate that you're saying you're going to keep for 20 years, the reality of that happening is pretty small. It just isn't going to be there. So what you're passing on is you're passing on somebody who has a wealth of knowledge, who can also train up some of the people that you have on your staff that maybe need that level of experience or need that level of, of coaching that they, they aren't going to get from somebody who's closer to being their peer age.

[00:03:21]
 And that's, you know, often what I, I've. I've had clients I've had this discussion with, uh, fortunately, most of my clients have a good workplace culture and they value the knowledge over the, the age, but it is a consideration that I think many business owners look at because they don't like hiring. They don't like hiring. They don't like firing. That's just the nature of the beast. Uh, at the same point. You know, we have a lot of these, uh, experienced people and I think caused by a number of environmental factors will say, uh, that have happened over the last 10 to 15 years have now decided that, well, my retirement. Package is good enough or I have enough in my 401k or I have enough in the stock market that I can comfortably step back or step out of the workforce. And I don't have to deal with this stuff anymore. And that's what we're also seeing is they're voluntarily leaving because they don't want to put up with it. We're dealing with generational issues. We're dealing with payment issues. We're dealing with ageism to some degree. And all these factors just kind of. You know, come together and these folks decide that it's, it's not where I want to be anymore. 

[00:04:26] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, yeah. The age is in peace and you touched on some important pieces of this, this, this experience. One, sometimes, you know, we'll look at someone who perhaps is, what are we talking? Baby boomers and late Gen Xers, right? Hey, I don't even know. I'm a Gen Xer and I'm like, oh my goodness. 

[00:04:46] Dan Paulson
You and I both, and we're kind of getting to that stage where now we start thinking about, are we going to stay in the workforce? Are we going, are we, are we still relevant? Right? 

[00:04:53] Dr. Nate Salah
Yes. So, so one thing that comes to mind is our vantage point. When we come to human capital, I guess you'd call it, you know, it's very sterile term, but, but the value of the people in our organization. And sometimes when we look at people who are seasoned citizens, right, we tend to check off some boxes and say, well, are they acclimated with technology? And are they going to be able to keep up with change? And are they, are they able to, to uh, Perhaps set aside some of the old ways, things like, are, are they, will they be, Hey, look, let's just call it what it is. You know, will they be sick? Will they be going to get the hip replacement and all this other stuff? And they're not, I mean, let's just call it what it is, right? These are, these are questions that are, they're just, they're, they're logical questions that we would ask. And I don't think that it's wrong to ask those questions. However, sometimes we're not asking the right questions, and I think some of the other questions we should be asking are, do I have a breadth of experience and wisdom in my organization? Because when someone comes in and let's throw some age, age ranges out there and the, in the upper spectrum, well, what are we talking here? As far as the ages. 

[00:06:08] Dan Paulson
I mean, in most cases, you're probably looking at early to mid sixties is kind of what I would say the sweet spot. But I could also share example that hits pretty close to my home. My mother, she's 76. She's still working partially because she, she needs to. And the other part is, I think she would go insane if she didn't do something outside the outside the house. Now she's To point to, you know, some of that technology stuff. Is she the best with technology? Can she learn it? Yes, she can. She's, she's been in front of a computer for the last, you know, 30, 40 years. So she knows most of it getting into the weeds. That's a little bit different. You need to help her with that. But, um, she's actually working for, uh, a biosciences company here in Wisconsin, and she's had some, some really good success with what she's doing.

[00:06:53] 
Is she doing the technical stuff? No, but what she's doing is she's following up with doctor's offices with patients to make sure that the, uh, procedure they're going through, they have, you know, the right information. And she's doing a lot of the dotting the I's and crossing the T's, which, if you know, my mother. That's her sweet spot. She's got a unique talent of making sure everything is done to perfection. In fact, she just, uh, I recently published an ebook and she was the one who went through and checked every eye and dotted every T and made sure there were two periods and stuff like that. So when we're looking at the workforce, whether it's somebody who's 60, 65, all the way up to seventies, eighties, I think we're missing a huge opportunity. If we're not looking at the skills and talents that they bring to the table and where they fill gaps, that may be a younger generation wouldn't. 

[00:07:39] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, indeed. And, and to your, the story about your mom, first of all, I love that. I wonder if it's okay to share. What is the journey? Was it a journey to get to that? Was there a lot of doors closed? I mean, when you hear that 76 years old, right? I mean, yeah, we're pushing almost 80 and we're not talking about working as a greeter at Walmart. These are, you know, these are office positions. 

[00:08:01] Dan Paulson
You know, she has a lot of advantages to her. So you brought up health, you know, as you get older, you tend to get sicker. You tend to have more chronic illnesses pop up. It's just the nature of getting old. Um, she's fit as a fiddle. She's. Probably going to live to be 140. I keep teasing her about that. Uh, so there's a lot of things going in her favor, but I will say this, uh, she was the, uh, executive assistant to a CEO and insurance company for a number of years, and when that insurance company got bought out, merged with another one, of course, that CEO was already getting ready for retirement. He left, they made changes and she was like, go in her position. She couldn't find anything else after that. Cause again, nobody wants to hire somebody who's in their mid to late sixties, approaching 70, that they figure is probably a year or two going to retire anyway. So they didn't ask the questions they made assumptions and didn't really get into an understanding of why she likes to work, what she wants to do and, and see if there is an opportunity to put her there. They are also looking at her salary at that point, because she had been there for several years. She was quite experienced. She was managing everything from events to multiple leadership calendars and meetings and coordinating all that stuff. And she was making good money. Yeah. It's hard to let that go. Uh, at the same point though, they're looking at the bottom line going, well, you know, there's a salary where you can free up, and we can plug a 30-something into that same position, and we'll keep our fingers crossed they can do as well, but they'll do it for half the money. 

[00:09:33] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. So we see a lot of that. We see a lot of that. And so, uh, so what I'm hearing is if you're listening and you're in that age range, don't give up the right fit who values your expertise, your experience, your wisdom will as long as you continue to look for that best fit. 

[00:09:51] Dan Paulson
Yeah, I think the key to that, too, is it. As you start approaching that age, you have to look at how you market yourself is not going to be as much off a resume is going to be off of what do you bring to the table that somebody else isn't going to, you need to get them look beyond that age point to say. You know, this is why you need to hire me. This is what I'm going to bring to the table that, uh, another person might not bring in. And here's the experience you gain over somebody who's quite a bit younger than me. 

[00:10:18] Dr. Nate Salah
Absolutely. And personally, I love, I love bringing on. Folks with lots of experience, lots of wisdom, lots of anecdotes that are maybe lost to history, and it adds such a richness, at least to our culture and our environment. I, I have no problem at all hiring, uh, who folks who are older. In fact, I've been encouraged recently, I need to bring the meeting needs down. Because now, and that said, that said, that's a good point to make, too, because the breadth of, as I had mentioned earlier, of experience and exposure and different elements to the diversity of ideas is important, too, because if you've got a company that's weighted very heavily on On a emerging generation, say, you know, twenties to thirties, you're going to have a different understanding, a different sort of, uh, meter, a different philosophy, if you will, based on that generation. It's every generation has its, it's sort of hallmarks, right? That's not universal, but there are hallmarks in every generation because there's generational experiences. You and I didn't grow up with pandemics when we were young, we grew up with Saturday morning cartoons and cereal and banquet TV dinners. And so, you know, we lived in a different era. That had a different, mostly a lot of absentee parents who were, you know, parents who were working. And, and so, you were raised by your sitcoms and your microwave dinners. Right. So this was a different era, uh, than today. And I wonder how even like we, we survived all of this food that was being microwaved. 

[00:11:52] Dan Paulson
I think there was probably less chemicals in the food, even back then than there probably are today. So I think there's a lot more preservatives, but yeah, we, we definitely were, you know, they always use the French latchkey kits. Now I grew up. In a rural area. I actually grew up on a dairy farm. Uh, so work for me started at pretty much as I can get out of the house and and walk around from doing simple chores to, you know, eventually, when you get into high school, actually doing, uh, things like bailing hay, milking cows, you know, driving heavy equipment there. There's a lot of experience you gain from that. And also, if you look at our culture, we had a lot more people that were ag based farmers. 3040 years ago. Now we look at our culture and, you know, even my kids, they grew up in an urban set or semi urban setting. We're not a huge city, but we're in a good-sized town. They don't have chores like I had, in fact, trying to get him to do chores in and around the house sometimes was difficult because, you know, when you're asking a kid to clean up his room. And that's the most they've got to do that's that's a lot different than when, hey, you have animals that require your care.

[00:12:56] 
If you don't take care of them, they're going to get sick and they're going to die. And that's also how we make money and put food on the table. So there was a lot more importance, I think, into what we do. We've also become a nation where, you know, And I think this is true of every parent. You want your children to have a better life than what you had. Well, in the process of doing that, you tend to do a lot more for them. They get to, they get a lot more perks and bennies than, than maybe, you know, we did back in the day because maybe our parents weren't making as much or, um, you know, again, different lifestyle. All that plays into effect. So yeah, there is a huge difference in, especially the last couple of generations, I think with, you know, most of them raised in sports, soccer, mom, kids, or whatever it might be. And they're used to getting that support, that praise, that coaching, that level of experience. And then they get in the workforce and it's kind of like, well, sit at your desk and figure this out. Cause that's, We're not going to spend any time training you because your manager, your boss is busy doing his job as well, or her job as well. And I think that's where we're really missing out on this experience in that we're losing a lot of, uh, knowledge that just isn't being shared because a, they're retiring and B, we just haven't set up the workplace to support the generations that are looking for that coaching or that experience or that knowledge coming in. And that's indeed. That's a huge opportunity that we're losing out on. 

[00:14:17] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, no doubt. And so I think that's so important to, uh, to identify these generational differences that you're talking about, whether it's you're bringing in the younger Gen, uh, Gen Z-ers coming into the workplace or Y Gen. And of course, you've got the, uh, you've got the millennials. And Gen X and Baby Boomers are really signify the, the, the swath, if you will, of the workplace. And I think we would be doing a disservice as leaders, as leaders, not to understand some of the underpinnings. Again, it's not universal, but, but there are some generational underpinnings that you're describing that help us to foster a more productive and meaningful environment where people can find greater satisfaction and fulfillment contribution in their work. So it's, it's so incumbent upon us. If we haven't done, we begin to do the homework and the research of, of, of really just being able to better understand some of the nuances that undergird each generation's, uh, sort of need, if you will, uh, in the workplace, because, uh, because there are, there are, um, some, some, some contrast, as you said, you know, for, for Gen Xers. I remember, and it's, I know it's a, it's a cliche, it's a cliche for a reason, but come home when it's dark. Right, man, we would ride our bicycles all over town, Dan. And it was just, it was, it was just normal. And sometimes you'd be solo and you're like, Oh, Oh boy. Uh, where am I? Where did I end up? And of course, back then, you know, this, we didn't have cell phones.

[00:15:44]
 No, we didn't have GPS. We didn't have any, any way to figure, we had to figure it out. What did that mean? Okay. That means, Hey, you stop at a, you know, if you're on your bicycle, you stop at a local gas station or a grocery store and say, Hey, I'm lost. I need to get back to this street because I got to get home before dark or otherwise I'm in trouble. Oh, here's what you do, kid. You do this and this and this, right? There was, that was a hallmark, if you will, at least in the United States of, of, of our generation of you just figure, well, that's just, Hey, that doesn't apply to every single generation.

[00:16:15] Dan Paulson
No, it really, yeah, it's it, that's where things I think have really changed is we, you know, when you and I were kids, we had to entertain ourselves. We had to figure out if I asked my mom or if I asked my dad, probably better example, if I said I was bored, he definitely would find something for me to do. And it was something I probably didn't want to do. There's always more chores on the farm. Don't tell your dad. So you don't ask your mom or dad back then, you know, I'm bored. I don't know what to do. You know, kids nowadays, they've got technology. You know, we, we've got more on TV. We've got more on entertainment. We, you know, we're sitting here recording this on a computer, uh, and sharing information back and forth that way. Um, they've got video games. I mean, I had an Atari video game that I played to death when I was a kid, but that was a relatively new thing. You know, now you have internet, and you have everything on your phone, and you can do a world of. Of stuff, and then there's also YouTube, there's Facebook, there's X, there's tick tock, you know, there's all these different social media channels that can kind of perpetuate something to keep your, I won't say keep your mind necessarily active, but keep your mind busy.

[00:17:21]
 And we didn't have that back then. So if you got bored, you had to go figure out something to do. I lived in the country hunting and fishing. It was nothing to get up early in the morning and go out and, and go hunting or, or hop on the bike and grab the pole and, and, you know, go two miles down the road to the nearest Creek. So I could put a pole in the water, uh, kids today really, for the most part, don't think about doing that. They'll turn on their phone and turn on their, their social media. And that's what captivates their attention now. So you lose to some degree, some of that creativity. Now it's not with everybody, because some people make pretty good money online being creative. But most of us are ingesting that information. We're not giving that information. So it's, it's something that I do believe younger generations really have to learn is how to tap into that creative part of their brain. And the best way to do that, if effectively done is, you know, have some more experienced people, some people that have been there, done that for the last 20, 30 years to challenge them, to push them, to give them purpose and meaning in their work. So that way. Whether they stay or whether they leave you, you have a situation where that person is better going out than they were coming in. And that's ultimately what any leader should prescribe to do is really leave it better than you found it. So if somebody is coming in, they're lacking knowledge.

[00:18:40]
 How are you implanting that knowledge? How are you putting together a career path for that individual? Because most, most companies don't spend any time doing that most companies do evaluation once a year. And that's typically merit-based. It's not on how do I improve this person's, you know, cognitive knowledge of the job, their experience level, give them challenges that will not only help my company but help them grow in their position and potentially help keep them around. And that's why we see the turnover that we do. We're We as leaders need to make more of an effort to invest in that at the same time, the employees coming in also have to understand that they can't be CEO on day one, they have to develop that experience that's going to be necessary for when they do eventually get to that level being successful in the role that they're in.

[00:19:24] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, that's that's so well said. And so when I think about what you're saying, I'm seeing a 25-year-old, uh, 45-year-old and a 65-year-old all working in the same organization. Of course, each of them come from generally speaking a different generation, and they may view each one may view challenge a problem task differently. Then one another, and I think it's incumbent again up to us as leaders to foster an environment where we can we can help them to solve those problems in their own language of their generational language at the same time, recognizing that the overlap. And each generation in an ability to help one another to overcome situations. The 25-year-old may have better technological skills to help the 65-year-old and so on. And, and the 45-year-old may bridge some gaps between the two generations in terms of how we communicate, how to work as a team effectively and in some ways cohesively and also autonomously and bridge those gaps.

[00:20:30] Dan Paulson
Yeah. What? What, uh, should bring us together sometimes pushes us apart though, right? Because each of those generations, as you point out, have different experiences, different needs, different abilities. And we all have the stereotypes, right? We all think something about a millennial or a Gen X. And they all think something about a baby boomer, for whatever reason, Gen X often gets skipped when it's the younger older, but, you know, we all seem to, uh, we have our different levels of experience now on the Gen Xers because we can both speak from that. We're, we're of that age. Um, we were the last key kids, the, the baby boomers were, you know, the first generation after the great generation. So they were part of the big economic boom of the United States for 20, 30 years. Uh, we've got the millennials where, you know, they're probably the biggest experiences are. You know, the, the last great recession, that's when most of them were probably entering the workforce. And then I look at the Gen Z, my daughter's age. Their biggest experience really was nine 11, but most of them were too young to even remember that. Um, they really haven't had to deal with much as far as a true up or down other than, you know, the, the recent health. Endemic that we had a few years back and that I think even set to work, uh, you know, the idea that, well, we're not going to go to an office anymore for me. I want work-life balance. I can work from home. I can do my job here. I don't need to go into an office to do that. That's also where we're starting to see this shift because if you look at most, uh, Yeah.

[00:21:57]
 Well, or not millennials, but most Gen Xers and baby boomer, they would insist that you're in the office because they want to see you there. Now, you might not be any more productive, but they can at least see you in that seat. Don't that you're at work and it's harder to do that when you're at home. You can do a lot of different things other than work when you're sitting at, at a desk in your house.

[00:22:17] Dr. Nate Salah
Oh, that's a, that's a, that's a great point you make because say for example, you are a Gen Xer who is in management and you have a millennial, uh, working, uh, on your team, and you have certain tasks and your, your vantage point as well. As long as they're in their seat, I can see them than right? I can feel more comfortable about the work getting done. However, uh, that may not be the best criteria, uh, especially for that particular, uh, age group. 

[00:22:43] Dan Paulson
Not for everybody you know there, there are some people that do work better on their own, and there's some people that need that team environment in order to actually get anything done because there's too many other distractions around when you're at home there again you kind of have to weigh. The good and the bad of that, and you have to kind of test the market, if you will, to see who's going to be a right fit, where, you know, I think when we look at what companies are doing nowadays, when, when the pandemic hit, of course, everyone went remote and they thought this was the best thing ever. But now you're even seeing large companies like Google. I know around here Epic Systems, which is a large healthcare technology company. They've all insisted that, hey, you need to come back to the office. We need you in here. And. Part of that reason is the cultural effect. So you can't build a culture. If everyone's on their phone at home or on their, their computer at home, uh, teams environments typically don't do really well with that. It's fine for collaborating in some cases, but you miss that human connection. I think, you know, human beings are, are group animals, if you will. So we all have to connect with somebody at some point. We can't just live on a deserted island all by ourselves and, and. Yeah. Gain something from it. So, we do need that human connection at times.

[00:23:58]
 And now that's where we're seeing more people kind of If possible, moving toward maybe a hybrid environment where, you know, some days you can work from home, some days you have to come in the office and I'm seeing companies challenging themselves with trying to figure that out because of course, nobody wants to be in the office on the same day of the week. So you have some people come in while nobody else is there. You have people coming on another day. Nobody else is there. So. They're still not getting the benefit of that. It's going to be interesting to see how, how we figure all this out, because technology is allowing us to work more remotely. Some jobs allow that, obviously manufacturing restaurant, some other jobs require you to be there. You can't do that remotely, but I think more of the office or white collar positions are allowing more flexibility, but it's now a challenge with developing those cultures. So that way you keep that person engaged to make them feel like they're part of a team, which is going to be something that we all have to kind of figure out as we go forward in the next 20, 30 years. 

[00:24:54] Dr. Nate Salah
Absolutely. Yeah, we've embraced that as well. And, and I know some companies that we work with, uh, have the majority of their team members are remote all over the country and a very small team, a local, and they've managed to create, uh, some significant strides in, in culture, culture development. In fact, uh, we had, uh, that group, uh, on our podcast art speak, uh, uh, many moons ago. We'll make sure to keep that in the show notes. So if anyone wants to revisit that episode on. On creating a remote team, uh, that's thriving based on a set of shared values. I thought it was fantastic because we've got. You know, our initial inclination again, uh, me coming from a generation of everyone being in the same vicinity, if you will, it's counterintuitive to say, Oh, my goodness, can a remote teamwork? Yes, they can. However, as you said, you have to have the right culture, the right systems in place for it to be, uh, to function. We've, we've, we've had some remote Folks on our team, and you know, it's so important to make sure, as you said, to be mindful and intentional about inclusiveness, keep them included, even though they're not here for the Halloween dress up party or the, you know, the in-office meeting, make sure that they are here in spirit. You've got ways to connect with them digitally, electronically, you keep connected through meetings and so on and so forth, uh, to, uh, to make sure that they're not forgotten. Right. Yeah, yeah, it's so, so important. And another thing to do is you can, every so often, everyone who's remote, you can have them come in for an annual event or some kind of way for team building and so on remote or do an offsite type of experience so that there is that, uh, there is that, that human connection that's, that's in 3D. That's what I like to call it. 3D connection with your folks as well. 

[00:26:37] Dan Paulson
Yeah. I think anything for me, once a quarter would be perfect. If you really are that remote, um, there's always going to be some examples of where, you know, maybe you have somebody who works overseas. So you, you have a, you know, a distance workforce there that, you know, they're doing certain functions. Yes. You need to keep them included. It's probably not realistic to fly them in unless of course your, your company culture permits that and you have the resources to pull that off. But I, I think if you're looking at your, I'll call it your local workforce, anyone, you know, in the continental United States, maybe that is working for your business. Find ways once a quarter to get them to connect. Maybe it's a two day meeting at the office, or maybe it is a retreat or some sort of team building activity or some sort of celebration that you can do. That is you're right. That is very powerful. And that that does help them keep connected, make them feel valued. And ultimately, that's what's going to keep them working for you as opposed to working for somebody else. Because it gets hard to give up some of those fringe benefits. Beyond the pay, when you take good care of your people, you have a good culture, like, it's a little scary to go out there when you don't know what you're going to walk into, if you know what you got, that's going to help retain the people that you want. 

[00:27:48] Dr. Nate Salah
Absolutely. Uh, let me ask you this, Ian. Yeah. When it comes to the intergenerational business. And someone listening has is in that space right now. What are some of the ways that you can share in terms of, of getting some integration across those generations with the baby boomer, the Gen X er and the millennial?

[00:28:11] Dan Paulson
Well, I mean, ultimately putting teams together that incorporate all three of those groups is going to be helpful. I do believe there needs to be some training to go in to be, get past the stereotypes. Because again, we all have our preconceived notions of what each generation brings to the table and maybe where their weaknesses are. And of course, we.

[00:28:30] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, let's, let's stop there for a second. So let's start with maybe a couple of dispelling some of the stereotypes. I'll just start with Gen X. Go ahead. There's a stereotype out there. I'm not going to say which generation is saying this, but, and I don't know if this is across all generations, but Gen X-ers, I found in general, X-ers, Can seem to feel like they have it all together in terms of their generation. They, I see this all over social media. You know, Gen X-ers are tough. My, my, me at your age as a Gen X-er would have, you know, been able to, to beat you at every, every, you know, sport or everything, uh, just, just grit. Right. That's, that's sort of the Gen X-er, uh, aura. I think we need to take a couple of steps back, right? Uh, yes. I mean, I'm a Gen X-er. Yes. Some of that, some of that's true. However, it can really seem, it's sort of really condescending in a lot of ways. It can be off-putting. Let's just call it what it is. 

[00:29:25] Dan Paulson
Yep. You know, it's definitely, again, from that whole latch-keep, kid mentality. You know, we were the kids that were allowed to go out early in the morning to late at night. You come home when the when the lights are on. Um, now you hear things in the news today where I just recently heard of mom had her kid walk home from school or walk home from the store and she got called and arrested on it. So some of these things. Well, You know, there is some truth to it. It's not for every situation. We got to be careful of that. You know, you look at millennials, millennials typically tend to be the first technology kids because they were the first kids that had a laptop or a computer in their room. You know, it wasn't even a computer in their house, but nowadays we have laptops, we have phones, we have iPads, we have, you know, multiple sources of technology. So they do tend to be. They perceive themselves as more technologically advanced than say the Gen Xers or the boomers. So to your point where it gets a little derogatory there as well, you know, these Gen Xers are never going to figure out this technology. And that's where we're missing an opportunity. Now Zs we're trying to figure out yet there, uh, it appears they tend to be more work life balance. You know, they're, they're the, uh, you know, every kid gets a trophy type thing. And I think that was something that, or who needs a driver's license, right? Who needs a driver's license? Uber, yes. I'm going through that myself. My kid was in no hurry to get his driver's license. And I'm like, why? This is freedom. This means you can go out and do stuff. They're like, yeah, I got friends. 

[00:30:56] Dr. Nate Salah
I got, I got friends guys, a car. I got, I got freedom on a 20 by 12 screen. 

[00:31:01] Dan Paulson
And that too, that too. Um, so yeah, it's, it's interesting what each generation. Um, you know, how we perceive them. Some of it is based on fact cause that's where stereotypes come from. But also, there's a lot more nuance there that that goes on. And if you are not taking the time to break down the stereotypes and focusing on what's the unique talents this person brings to the table, maybe it is technology. Maybe there is something that they know about technology that say you don't. How as, as an older, more experienced person can tap into that. Vice versa, that millennial or that Gen Z should be looking at the older person. Say this guy or gal has a wealth of knowledge. They've been around the block a couple of times. Maybe if I ask them some questions, they could explain to me, you know, why do you do things this way versus that, or when this happens, why is this always the outcome, because maybe they understand something at a different level that again, only experience will bring to the table, and the same is true for each generation.

[00:32:02]
 So we've got to look back and forth and say, where's the unique fit? Where's that talent and open up their, our minds to say. I need to understand how we can work together better, not what separates us and sets us apart negatively. And that's how you create, uh, you know, a good workplace environment. So bringing those people together in a group, working on a unified challenge or problem can be very helpful. Um, I think it also is taking into the fact team environments where you can do certain activities for team building. So people can share their different talents so you can see how that all works together. But it's we have to be more inquisitive. We can't just make assumptions about everything. And humans are very good about assuming without fully understanding what the what the problem or what the issue is from another person's perspective. So we've got to be smarter about that. And that's true for any generation. I don't think it's limited to Gen X-ers or millennials or baby boomers, whatever it might be. 

[00:33:02] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, that's a, uh, I agree. That's, that's an important way to describe this exchange, if you will, with, with being inquisitive and communication defined is an exchange of ideas, and we will be more receptive to the exchange of ideas. If we have an inquisitive mind, if we're, we're curious, and where does curiosity, the, um, what does it help us to do? It helps us to recognize and admit that perhaps everything we do and every way we do it is not the most optimal. Maybe we can learn and progress. How about that for a novel concept? To learn and progress. And so if I'm a Gen X er and a millennial saying, Hey, we've got a, there's a better way to do this. We can use tech to help us to solve this problem. And I say, Oh, wait a minute now. Hmm. We, we shouldn't do that. That's not the way we've always done things. Well, that's right. That's not progress. That's not just inquisitive. And that's not an exchange by the way. Right. Of ideas.

[00:34:00] Dan Paulson
Yes. Um, we're more comfortable making statements than we are asking questions. And I, I catch a lot of my clients, you know, well, uh, they, they're making a decision about X. For example, and I'll ask, well, did you ask them any questions? Did you try to understand what perspective they're coming from? Well, no, pretty sure. I know what's going on. Well, do you, do you really, did you ask the questions that need be because questions create a conversation statements are like a statement of fact. You pretty much made up your mind, and this is what's going to be, and we all know that when we get people making statements upon us, we tend to shut down the conversations, and again, this doesn't matter what age you are, if somebody is going to tell you how it is and it's very apparent that they're not willing to listen, then most people just shut down, nod their head, you know, bury their, their head in the computer and start typing away, and in a few months or a few years, they're looking for another job. Because they don't, they don't see any opportunity there and that's going to be really costly. Uh, there's already a shortage of people in the workforce, right? We're already seeing that the generations coming up are smaller than the generations going out. So we, we are going to be losing a lot of this experience in the next 10 to 20 years that we aren't going to be replacing anytime soon. So we really have to find ways to. To tap into that experience, knowledge, and we have to find ways for the older generation to see value in sharing that knowledge with younger generations. Yes, that's something that most workplaces are going to fight with for quite some time. 

[00:35:36] Dr. Nate Salah
Oh, my goodness. Yes. It's so relevant. So important to be able to preserve and pass down that knowledge and that wisdom, perhaps. It's not necessarily applicable in, um, particular skills, like we're talking about, uh, computer programming or drop down lists. However, there are so many other ways that we can gather, uh, collective wisdom that's useful in any particular task situation or task environment that we can, and I think that the first part of that exercise is to recognize the inherent value in all Of the people who are on our team, all of the people who have were a fit, if you will, for the role in the assignment itself and excluding the age, Hey, look, if I've got someone for the next couple of years and we can download all of that amazing wisdom or five years or 10 years, whatever that is. And as you said, most people stay in companies for much shorter duration, but even if you've got a culture to where people stay with you for many, many years, what a tremendous opportunity. That you have among you to glean, uh, that wisdom. It's a, it's a treasure and it's a treasure that we sometimes overlook. It's even there. 

[00:36:50] Dan Paulson
Yeah. We, we get so focused on our own stuff and again, human nature, we focus on what affects us directly. We don't always take time to, to understand how others can help influence or improve upon that. Uh, you know, as you were talking about this, I, there was a movie that came out a few years back, Robert De Niro. I think it was called the intern. Yeah. And. So if you've seen that for your audience who hasn't, maybe you were checking it out. I don't know if it's the best movie out there, but it was enjoyable to watch. And I think it really does highlight the difference between somebody who, you know, in his case is, is definitely that baby boomer generation. And he's now in a tech company working with a bunch of young techie kids who, in the beginning, just see him as like an afterthought, because I guess the boss had decided that she was going to, you know, fight this ageism and bring somebody in who has, uh, more experience. And over the course of the movie, you see where these younger kids now start learning from this guy on everything from relationships to how to communicate more effectively with people to how to do their jobs better. So to me, that's a good representation of what. Having somebody with more experience in your business can really do for you. They can fill the gaps that may be that younger generation's going to assume in the beginning, but they're going to see value with over time. 

[00:38:06] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, that's lovely. So if you're listening and, and, uh, even if they're not employed, your dad keeps going by the office, and you're like, oh my goodness, dad, stop going by the office because you're disrupting the flow. Maybe, uh, welcome a conversation. Welcome a story. Welcome. Uh, some experience or some wisdom that can add a greater cohesion to the, uh, the collective experience of the entire organization. 

[00:38:33] Dan Paulson
Those stories can often be good. I remember when my grandpa was alive, he would always tell these, he had a very colorful life. Now, some of that was probably embellishment, but at the same point, he, he had these stories he would tell. And I can remember hearing, you know, it'd be the same stories over and over again, but they were still good. And he had a way of, of making them entertaining. So there's some entertainment value to it, but there's also some lessons to learn. And that's what you gotta take away is what is this person sharing with me and how do I apply that to what I do? Because maybe there's something in there that can make me a better person, can make me a better employee, can help me maybe in things like work life balance or communication or family relationships. You never know what it's going to bring to the table. 

[00:39:16] Dr. Nate Salah
You don't, and to maximize the, the value of the time and the relationships while we have them, because we don't know how long we will have them, whether it's a millennial or a Gen Z person you got working with you or Gen Xer or even a baby boomer, uh, everyone has an inherent value, and it's a good practice to first seek that value and extract it for the benefit of yourself and everyone. And the organization. 

[00:39:45] Dan Paulson
Yeah, we're all going to face challenges, especially in business that we don't even know we're going to face yet. And it's going to take a collective brainpower to solve some of those challenges when they come up. I mean, if you think about back to 2019, 2020, there were a lot of things we didn't know back then that we had to figure out, uh, this platform we're on right now was in its infancy, and it exploded over the course of, of two years. It became, it became the normal, how many of us communicated for that period of time. Um, You never know what tomorrow is going to bring. And if you're not proactively prepared to deal with it, it's going to be very difficult to get over that hump because there will be somebody else or some other business that's going to figure out a way to solve that problem. And if they solve it before you do or solve it better than you do, well, that's obviously going to impact your lifestyle and your, your business. So we really have to look at what everyone brings to the table, seek out talents. Um, cultivate those talents, find ways to work with some of the challenges or the weakness, or find ways to offset that. Um, it's also about creating an environment that people want to show up to, you know, work is work. Yeah. You know, I don't think anyone goes out necessarily because they enjoy the idea of work, but that doesn't mean they can't enjoy work. You make it challenging. If you do make it fun, if you celebrate your wins, instead of criticizing all your losses, it can be a great environment that people want to be part of. This is why we see companies become employers of choice. People seek them out to work there versus the other way around versus leaving. You want to create the employer choice. You want to be the place where everyone's going. Hey, that's a great place to work. That place is cool. They value their employees. They will value me if I go there, and that's a great place to work. That's why I should strive for.

[00:41:37] Dr. Nate Salah
Wonderful. I love I love the way you put that. It's a great way to bring it in for a landing and listening to the individuals you bring in. Just think of the message you send when you say, Hey, I'm not in the same generation as you are. However, I've taken the time to learn about how our generations are not only different, but how we share in the desire to have success and experience that works. And here are some of the things that I'd love to do to help you to experience that. Wow. I mean, that in and of itself is bonding because people don't care what, you know, of course, as you know, this until they know that you care. Dan, thanks for being on the show, really appreciate you, such great wisdom. Well, my friend, I am so thrilled that you joined me on this episode of A Call to Leadership. And before you go to the next episode, especially if you're binge-listing, take a moment. I would love to get your honest review right here on your screen. Your feedback is so important. It helps the podcast. It encourages me and it helps me. It helps me. me to give you more and more and more value. So I can't wait to read your review. I can't wait to be with you on the next episode. I'm Dr. Nate Salah. This is A Call to Leadership.

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