A Call To Leadership

EP273: You Are Enough with Justin Goodson

• Dr. Nate Salah

Share episode

Rock bottom is not the end. It is where transformation begins. In this powerful episode, Pastor Justin Goodson shares how he moved from self-hatred and suicide attempts to a life rooted in faith, healing, and purpose. Alongside Dr. Nate Salah, we will unpack how radical love redefines identity and why your past does not cancel your calling. If you have ever felt unworthy or stuck, this conversation will show you that restoration is real and available.

 
 Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • How trauma, depression, and self-hate can be transformed by grace
  • Why following Jesus is a lifelong journey of growth, not perfection
  • What it means to love like Jesus, even when you’re still healing
  • How reframing your inner dialogue with biblical truth leads to confidence
  • The importance of burning bridges to your old life to walk in freedom


About Justin Goodson
Justin Goodson is a pastor, writer, and speaker devoted to helping others find freedom, identity, and purpose through Jesus Christ. Though raised in a loving Christian home, Justin struggled with depression and substance use throughout his youth, until a life-changing encounter with God at age 20 set him on a new path of healing and discipleship. Since then, he’s attended Bible school, served on the mission field in Africa, and committed his life to full-time ministry. He now serves at Twin Rivers Church in St. Louis, where he lives with his wife Megan and their two children, Hope and Jude. With a heart for authenticity and transformation, Justin uses his story to reach others with truth, grace, and hope.


 Connect with Justin

Connect With Us
Master your context with real results leadership training!
To learn more, visit our website at www.greatsummit.com.

For tax, bookkeeping, or accounting help, contact Dr. Nate’s team at www.theincometaxcenter.com or send an email to info@theincometaxcenter.com.


Follow Dr. Nate on His Social Media

[00:00:00] Dr. Nate Salah
Hello my friend, and welcome to this episode of A Call to Leadership. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, your host, so glad you are here. Well, sometimes in life we think that we have been through the worst of the worst, and it may feel that way, and in fact for us, indeed it is. But there's hope You've found in life, like I've found in life, that there are dark roads and there are roads that lead to light. Well, I've invited a guest on the program who is a pastor. And has been down that dark road, Jason Goodson, who is in discipleship and ministry, and helps to unpack what it looks like when there are no other roads except for taking your own life and coming out of that boy. It's deep, it's impactful, it's inspirational, and I encourage you to listen to every word as Jason shares his incredible story, bravely, transparently, authentically. 

[00:01:06] Jason Goodson
Pastor Justin, thanks for being here. Well, thank you. Thanks for the invite, man. I just love. Love what's going on in this community and appreciate, appreciate the invite. Looking forward to it. 

[00:01:13] Dr. Nate Salah
Oh man. Absolutely. Well, we love what we, you are affectionately calling our ministry moment. Yeah. Where we get to hang out with people who are in the trenches. Yeah. Yeah. If you will. And I was blessed to get to hear you and see you speak, at as I was invited to a friend's church, Jason Courtney, who has been on the show many times. Yeah. And just heard your fire, your zeal. Mm-hmm. for the Lord, your intellect. Smart guy. Yeah. I love the way you just break down the word of God, and I think, your, your contribution is, is such a blessing to myself and, for those who get to be a part of this episode. Yeah. So you're involved in different areas of ministry. One area that I'm super fascinated about is this area of discipleship. Yeah. As you know, the eighth chapter of John I, one of my favorite verses on systematizing freedom. Mm-hmm. and if you've been listening to the show, you know, I've said this before. Jesus's model is very clear on how to be free. Yeah. If you abide in my word. Yeah. You are truly my disciple. Mm-hmm. You will know the truth. Yeah. And the truth will set you free. And of course, a couple, couple sentences down, he seals it with his stamp. And if the sun has set you free, free indeed. Free indeed. Disciple. Let's unpack that. Let's do it. What's a disciple? 

[00:02:34] Jason Goodson
I think a simple definition was just someone who is following Jesus and becoming more like him. You know, I think as a disciple, it's really, you never arrive. You know, it's a journey. You just keep going forward. You know, I never arrived like, man, I'm perfectly like Jesus. I can't grow. I'm amazing. You know, you never arrive there. And so it's just this journey that in my, thoughts, words, and actions that I become more and more like Jesus, that I begin to look more like him, talk like him, think like him, act like him. Respond like him. Yeah. believe you know the truth about him. And so disciple is just someone on the journey. Yeah. Man, the following Jesus. And hopefully, as they're following, they'll begin to look a lot more like him. 

[00:03:18] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. I love it. Yeah. I tend to look at Disciple as a student. Of course, as you know, he was a teacher and this, and these are students. I also love the word. Disciple as its etymology and its languages related to discipline. Someone who is, and different ways to look at it. Right. Some one a discipline. Mm-hmm. Which is, this is the discipline of Jesus' model for life. Mm-hmm. And so like people ask me like, Hey, you know, why did you start to follow Jesus? I'm like, you know what? His model works. Yeah, absolutely. Like it works. It works for me Now. There's a lot of things that you know, are faith oriented. The whole idea is faith, right? At the same time, there's extremely practical application in that, and I'm a pretty practical guy, so I'm like, oh, you know what? Hey, this is actually good for me as a student of life. And then the other part that I really like about Disciple is the discipline piece is like I'm, I like discipline. Yeah, I'm a discipline guy. You give me a system, you gimme a routine, you gimme an order, you say same, do X, Y, and Z. Guess what? I'm doing it right. And that feels good because there's consistency, right? There's order, there's clarity, and as you know, clarity is power. Absolutely. At the same time, a lot of people might go into discipleship or becoming this disciple and be a little confused, right? Because maybe it's a little daunting. Like there's a lot of questions, people have lot questions. 

[00:04:40]
Yeah. 'em all the time. Yeah. Let's unpack some of. So one question is, I love the question of, Hey, you know, I've had this life, I've got baggage. Mm-hmm. That's a big one. Yeah. Whether it's through trauma, through family, whether it's through habits of my own, whether it's through issues that I don't think God is big enough to, sure. Deal with. Mm-hmm. Let's talk about some of that. Yeah. Let's talk about what you've seen in your world, some examples of that and, and, and, and start there. 

[00:05:16] Jason Goodson
Yeah. Well, first, you know, when we come to Christ, we're made new. we're made new spiritually. So from the inside out, you know, scriptures say you're a new creation. Brand new. And I think with that brand new, I don't know, maybe we kinda assume because I'm new inside, I have peace with God, I, you know, I have joy like the moment of your salvation experience, that that should immediately translate to a whole lot of different thinking and living and, you know, it's like you 

[00:05:46] Dr. Nate Salah
Wake up, you go one day, you know, you look like a, um. I don't even want to use this analogy, but one guy, there's a guy once said, you know, talk, talking to his buddy and he said, I've got, you know, I've got the, the body of a god, a Greek God. He says, and his buddy says, no, Buddha is not a Greek God. 

[00:06:04] Jason Goodson
That's perfect.
 

[00:06:05] Dr. Nate Salah
Right? Yeah. And then they wake up the next day and they're like, they look like Olympus. Right? Yeah. That's not necessarily what we mean by made new. 

[00:06:10] Jason Goodson
No. That's why scripture would say you have to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. You don't, you don't work for it. you don't work to earn God's favor, God's love, like he loves you as you are, but he loves you too much to leave you as you are. Mm-hmm. And so he is like, let's, let's grow. And that's, that's really the journey of discipleship. That it's a journey. And I come to, you know, Christ and I'm forgiven instantly, but then I have, I have to grow. I have to change. And he, you know, his grace helps you to do that. He doesn't just. All right, now I saved you. You, you do all the work and change yourself. No, like he changes you from the inside out. Then he helps you become more like him. And so it's a journey and I've just seen in my own life, there were things that I feel like, kind of sovereignly God, just like, I. At the moment of my salvation really set me free from, a lot of that was, I dunno how much we wanna get into, but my own journey. Like, I was depressed and suicidal, attempted suicide multiple times. I was a mess before Jesus. Really hated myself in the moment. How old were you? This is my, this is probably on, on this is just my journey experience. I would say I had suicidal thoughts and hated myself as young as third grade. Wow. I mean, very young. In my own journey. I mean, I remember writing suicide notes, leaving them for my parents in like fifth, sixth grade, very young. 

[00:07:28] Dr. Nate Salah
So,and, and when you wrote those notes, okay, we're gonna go there, right? We can go this, this is good because this is, thank you for that vulnerability. 'cause somebody listening is either experiencing that or they've got a family member or something like that, that who's experienced. And I've seen it in my own, in my own circles as well. Were those notes? Did you plan on that? Did you, was it like, Hey, I, I'm, I'm, I just wanna be heard, I wanna be seen, so here's a note, or it's like, Hey, you know what, this is where I'm really going everyone when it 

[00:07:54] Jason Goodson
comes to this topic, everyone, you know, just working with people, everyone's journey is kind of different. Mine, I. Honestly, I just wrote those notes hoping after I committed suicide, someone would read it. Wow. So it wasn't a cry for help. I never told anyone. I never, I was just in such a dark place. I mean, in the note, I'm like, here's who you should invite to my funeral. And I would list all my friends. and again, very young. I, I have a daughter who's in sixth grade. I can't imagine. The head space you would have to be in to write something like that. 

[00:08:26] Dr. Nate Salah
But that's where I was. You, you felt hopeless. Absolutely. And that's so important to recognize is like this. That's why Faith, hope and love Yeah. All go to together. I'm sure we'll get to that. But you were in a place to where the future was dark. It had, there was, there was a one way road and it led to nowhere and many of us have been on that road in fact. It's so prevalent. Even more now, today. Mm-hmm. People feel hopeless. Yeah. 

[00:08:54] Jason Goodson
And I think a lot of that for me, really just came from not liking myself and comparing myself to other people. And so it was, maybe someone was more attractive than me. Maybe someone was more in shape than me. Someone was smarter than me. Someone was more. Charismatic than me. More likable than me. And so all I ever saw as a young kid wasn't my strengths. I had some, had plenty of them, but all I saw was my weaknesses. All I saw was the, I wish this was different about me. I wish that was different about me. I wish, you know, a lot of wishing. You know, certain things would be different and could never really see the unique person that God made me. Mm-hmm. with faults, you know, I'm, you know, you know far from perfect. 

[00:09:40] Dr. Nate Salah
And kids and kids we're in a place when we're young. Yeah. That, that, all that is magnified on top of that, right?

[00:09:45] Jason Goodson
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And so, um. I feel like for me, that started very young, you know, really came from just a, almost like a self-hatred. I couldn't even tell you why, honestly. I don't know. I, I don't know what led it there. what was your family life like? I. Oddly enough, you know, pretty solid family, solid, normal, sort of like normal. You check the boxes. Yeah. my parents have been married, you know, they're still married today. you know, again, far from perfect. Yeah. But who is, you know? Yeah. And so, which is important too.

[00:10:18] Dr. Nate Salah
Because you don't have to have. You know, a lot of dysfunction mm-hmm. In a family, you don't have to have abuse necessarily in a family. Right. You can have what's considered a pretty normal life. Like you said, there's no such thing as flawless family, of course. However, that's important to, to, to, to highlight that this can happen anywhere.

[00:10:41] Jason Goodson
Yeah. And it really, again, looking at my parents, you know, both stable jobs, nothing, nothing. Overly traumatic, that like someone will be able to say, oh, that's what, or that's why there's things, you know, we all go through, stories in life and, you know, ups and downs to it. But there wasn't a big overarching reason. It was just something that plagued me. Mm-hmm. Honestly, couldn't, couldn't shake, couldn't get rid of, couldn't. Fight through, you know, this was obviously years ago, so counseling was less of a thing, but my parents even tried to take me to counseling and pastors tried to help. And how'd you, how'd you, how'd you fair with counseling? I. So as an adult, love counseling. Yeah. Yeah. As a teenager, I was probably just painful to counsel. I, I probably wasn't an easy counseled. 

[00:11:31] Dr. Nate Salah
Like it just, I haven't met, it didn't go well. I haven't met a teen yet. It was like, oh man, that sounds great. You know, I'm down for that. Let's talk about all your problems as a stranger. Yeah. I didn't wanna talk to my family, my problems because the, the, I think the likely response that they think is, well, they're just gonna tell me everything that's wrong with me anyway. I already know what's wrong with me, why I don't wanna be more depressed. 

[00:11:50] Jason Goodson
Yeah. I don't know where, where that was. I think for me it was mostly just skepticism and I don't feel like this is gonna help. What's the point? What's the point in unpacking all my raw emotions to someone I'm not close with? 'cause it's not gonna help anything. Yeah. You know? So pretty hopeless, kinda like you said earlier. Yeah. 

[00:12:08] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. Hopefulness, hopeful. Hopelessness. I think that's two opposite ends of a spectrum. Yeah. Of hope. Of course, there's other parts of that spectrum, but I think those are the two. Yeah. Opposite ends and, and it's tough because sometimes you might say, well, you just need to choose, right? It's like, yeah, but is it so easy? No. No. Because if it was. I wouldn't be hopeless right now. Absolutely. Because I would just say, oh yeah, great. I'll just wake up tomorrow and I'll choose hopefulness. Yeah. It's not so easy. And that's what you're talking about, the new self. Yeah. Isn't a light switch. 

[00:12:40] Jason Goodson
No, not at all. and so for me, again, I, I grew up in church my whole life and so I always believed in God, but never followed him. so if you were to ask me kind of all the Christian questions, I would've checked all those boxes. Like, I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but like, I really wanna do my own thing. I'm not really interested in following anyone. especially not Jesus. And so, yeah, it was just very closed off.

[00:13:04] Dr. Nate Salah
What prevented you from going through. Well, you did say you had attempted suicide. Yeah. Three times. Okay, so you did follow through. Yeah. You just were not very good at it. And I don't, I don't wanna say that in a no, you know, on this side of it, I, you know, I can, you know, thank goodness that you didn't Yeah, 

[00:13:23] Jason Goodson
Yeah, yeah. First time I attempted to suicide, I was eighth grade, try to overdose on, just over the counter medicine. Just got really sick for three days, attempted another time. The last time I attempted suicide, I was 18. I drove my car into a light pole and tried to kill myself and so my face hit the car windshield. I was, have scars on my eye, and face today, put a basketball size hole in the car windshield from my face. No seatbelt or seat belt. No seat belt. No. I was going probably 35, 40 miles an hour. Just hit a light pole intentionally, and yeah, blacked out for a few minutes, then realized I hadn't, you know, died, laid on the ground. Um. Screaming in a ton of pain. There's glass in my eyes, couldn't see. there's actually a puddle of blood from my forehead to my feet that I laid in, and waited for an ambulance. So pretty traumatic. But even that, I would say from that moment until my salvation experience was about two, two and a half years. Even that two and a half years, very dark place. You know, that's when I did just a lot of stupid stuff. Ended up experimenting with a lot of drugs and partying and just a lot of just sinful, stupid things.

[00:14:36]
 Trying to, honestly just, I wouldn't have been able to articulate it when I was going through it, but kind of looking back on it, back on it, it was anything to alleviate my pain. Yeah. And, just really trying to numb it, you know, what was happening. With mom and dad at the time. I don't know how much they, I think they knew specifically the car accident. I think they knew just how the accident happened, that it was intentional, but it was almost like they were afraid to ask and I wasn't gonna tell 'em. it wasn't until years later that I even admitted that, to anyone. And so were you pretty close with your parents at all? Who was, would you, would you We were, emotionally, no, not at all. Physically, yeah. 

[00:15:21] Jason Goodson
Yeah, so my dad was always around, you know, I played sports and so he was at, at every game. He was, you know, he made sure to do that. my mom, you know, was a stay-at-home mom on and off, you know, throughout growing up. And so she was around a lot. We had a, you know, relatively good relationship, but emotionally, no, I wasn't close to anyone really. How did your mom take the, car accident? I think they all took it really hard. I think they all knew it was on purpose, but didn't even want to admit it to themselves. And so again, after that, I, I pushed them away even further, isolated myself even more. yeah, dark place. I. Then, I, so my story's just weird. I, I think it's weird, but, you know, it's my story. And so I remember from, you know, being, high, late high school, early college. I remember being at parties, being on multiple drugs and literally saying the phrase, you know, one day I'm gonna follow Jesus and I'm not gonna do all this. This is stupid. And I knew because you knew it was stupid. I knew it was stupid. A smart, I knew God had a plan for me. I knew, I knew, like this was fun for a moment. But this is not what life is. I, I know there's a God who loves me and eventually I'm gonna follow him. I just don't want to do that yet. 

[00:16:36] Dr. Nate Salah
So this is early twenties. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So brain formation is beginning to happen. Frontal lobes starting to get, finally, finally, finally, my brains starting to function. 

[00:16:45] Jason Goodson
Yeah. And then like again, I remember just high as can be, looking at my girlfriend and just. One day, this isn't gonna be cool. One day like, I want a family and I want a career and I want to help people and do something with my life. And one day I'm gonna, this is gonna be the life I live. so I kind of always knew that, but for me it was just, I knew what it meant to follow Jesus, and I knew salvation's free, so it doesn't cost me anything. But I knew following him would change my life. I knew it would change me from the inside out. I knew it would change my thoughts, my behaviors, my actions, my attitudes, my career path. I knew to follow Jesus, I'd have to go all in. I'm kind of a black and white all in, all out type person anyway, so it's like I don't do anything halfway. There's something I knew I would about you like, and so I knew to follow Jesus. Like I would have to deny myself my cross and follow him. Amen. I gonna. The hypocrite I saw in church who like raised their hand and then was next to me at the party. Like I wasn't gonna be that guy. And so I wanted to, when I made the decision pathologies, I wanted to go all in and I knew that it was gonna change my life. And so I was just scared of it. I was scared of, I knew I wanted to, I was just scared of what it was gonna look like. I was scared of what it was gonna cost. I was scared of what it was gonna change. I was scared of what I was gonna have to leave behind. Even though I knew it'd all be worth it. 

[00:18:17] Jason Goodson
So, and and were you currently in church at the time? Oh, my parents made me go to church, so I lived in their home. you know, even through college. Went to, just ended up gonna community college at first and I was gonna transfer. So yeah, they made me, you know, hungover almost every Sunday. 

[00:18:31] Dr. Nate Salah
And, and what do you think about that today? Like good move, bad move. I love that they did it. Love that they did it. 

[00:18:38] Jason Goodson
I love that it wasn't an option. Mm. I think it would've been far worse for me had it been. Because again, my story's different and than some people, I don't have all this like, bad experience with church, church hurt, anything like that. I, I don't have any of that. Well, not that. Yeah. Yeah. Not none. Yeah. Yeah. But primarily, especially during that time, not, you know, I, people in church were nice to me. People in church loved me. People were kind to me. I. You know, knew through sermons I wasn't living right. And I, and you know, I needed to make some adjustments and changes. And, and so I'm glad they did it. Yeah. Honestly, really glad they did it. yeah. Not everyone would maybe have that. They, you know, my parents just made me go to church and you're gonna whatever. Um. There are things I'm glad they didn't force me to do, but Sunday morning church, I'm glad it wasn't an option to not go.

[00:19:31] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, because I think the natural inclination, and this isn't for everyone, however, I hear the statement, well, if you force me to go to church, then I'm just gonna, you know, I'm gonna rebel and I'm just gonna hate it. And all you're gonna do is push me away. Yeah, I don't even know. You might have said that. I don't know if you've said that. You said that in the journey. You didn't say that. 

[00:19:48] Jason Goodson
It seemed pointless to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it was just like, why are we doing this? Like, it was just, again, it was never not an option. Interesting. Every single Sunday for my whole life. Yeah. I was in church, you know, outside of we're sick or on vacation or something. I just wasn't, I didn't even think of it. It was just what we did. Mm. I didn't think of it good, bad, or indifferent. It was kind of like, yeah, that's just what we did. And, thank God that we did though, because there was just like, in the back of my mind, even when I didn't want to think about it, even when I was half paying attention, like God's word was still being sewn in my heart. And I'm very glad it was. 

[00:20:27] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, man. Sure. And it's interesting, like your journey with that, you know, out of the darkness and as you had said, everyone has got a different, you know, a different. Journey in that way, and maybe there's some similars and overlaps and in different parts. I, as you were speaking, it was reminding me of that dark place that many of us, are in or have been in. Some never have to go there. And that's wonderful. There's like a preservation. I say, you know, you're, you're, you're either preserved or you're provided mm-hmm. And Jesus in a fresh, new way. Right. And there's no, each testimony is just as powerful. Absolutely. Right. And at the same time, like thinking like, you know, back backtracking for me was mid-twenties too, by the way.

[00:21:13]
 Similarities. And I was in a dark place because I had made a lot of very dumb decisions as well. Mm-hmm. And. I was at a point in my life that I was like, man, there's gotta be more. Mm-hmm. This is not this, this can't be it. Yeah. This can't be it. This is by that time I'd been in business for a few years and I, I had, you know, some mild success, more fails than successes, but I had, you know, I got in a lot of trouble. Mm-hmm. I got in a lot of trouble with friends. I got in trouble with the law. Yeah. I mean, I was just in trouble and I had come to a place where. I was truly spiritually bankrupt. And I was on that one-way road to nowhere. Yeah. And I would wake up in the morning some days and just start crying like, there's gotta be more to life than this. And in that, in that I met someone mm-hmm. Who wasn't a Christian at the time, however, became a Christian during our dating relationship and simply challenged me to get to know Jesus. Yeah. And as you said, we're both cut from the same cloth, black, white. Mm-hmm. Right. You know, on off. We don't have a dimmer switch. No. It's either we go or we're, you know, the only time we're resting is when we're sleeping and then we're probably not even really fully resting when we're sleeping. So, I was like, I accept your challenge. 

[00:22:42]
Yeah. And over the next two years, I invested in that full on immersion. Mm-hmm. Study, study, study. I. I'm a head guy, heart guy too, but sure. You know a lot of, lot of, you know, just logic, reason, rationale, practicality, and who is this? Right? Who is this? At the end of that two-year journey, I had spent so much time studying and, and, and a lot of pastors. Speaking of pastors, I, I, I love listening to the, you know, especially the radio pastors. I then this, you're talking 25 years ago, so you think Adrian Rogers think, DJ, James Kennedy think, um. Hank Hraf, I'm a Bible-answer man. Right. Yeah. and so on and so many others. Robbie Zacharias, so many people were, part of my pastoral community. Yeah. From afar. Yeah. And there came a point in my life where they walked with me through all of the questions I had and then some, but then they stopped. They got to a point with me in this journey, and I remember it was a February night in 2001 and they said, look, if you wanna step into the, into the presence of the father, we can only take you this far. If you wanna step into the presence of the father, the son is the only one who can take you there. You've gotta trust him. And that was the moment mm-hmm. Where I took that step of faith. Yeah. How about you? 

[00:24:27] Jason Goodson
Yeah, for me, again, it was always like, I knew one day, one day, you know, I'm finally gonna surrender to to Jesus. And so I was, sophomore in college. I was 20 in a lot of ways non dramatically dramatic. And, you know, I, I went all in, but non dramatically. It was just a conversation with my mom in our kitchen. And, kind of just through a series of events, some relationships had ended, friendships, and then a relationship with my girlfriend had ended and I was just kind of at a place where I didn't have much else to lose. And it was kind of just this sovereign moment where, okay, now's as good as time, as any to, to actually do what you've been saying your, you know, for years that you're gonna follow Jesus. So. Yeah, right there. Just made a decision. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go all in, with the Lord today. I guess I should go throw away my drugs. And did, you know, I guess I should change a lot of the stuff that I was consuming from a media standpoint. 'cause it was just, you know, not healthy for me and would just pull me along. And so. Kind of just went all in and threw away a ton of stuff. the, the best way I like to describe it is I burned every bridge to my old life.

[00:25:44]
 So that in a moment of weakness, I couldn't go back if I wanted to come on, brother and I did that. I, you know, back then you still had cell phones, but I changed my cell phone number and deleted every phone number I had to every friend I ever had. And like in a moment. And that I could not go back. again, pretty extreme. Not saying everyone has to do that journey. I did, I had. I needed it. I needed a fresh start and a clean slate. And so there were plenty of times, you know, like weeks, months later, I'm like, oh man, I should go get high right now. I'm having a bad day, bad moment. And I couldn't, you just don't show up at your drug dealer store. You know? It's just not the move, you know? And so I, I couldn't call him, I couldn't text him, I couldn't find him, and I'm not showing up at his door. a lot of my old friends, I. I couldn't go find them. You know, I could show up at their door, but I wasn't gonna, I wasn't that desperate. I wasn't gonna do that. and so, you know, same with my girlfriend. My girlfriend could not, ex-girlfriend at the time could not get in touch with me if she wanted to. She, we had house phones back in the day, so she would've had to call my house phone. My mom would've, you know, wouldn't have gone well. And so I, I just couldn't, and I'm so glad I did that.

[00:26:54]
 'Cause again, there following Jesus, there's, you know, you still have bad day. You still have rough moments. And I knew I needed a season. That I just, I can't go back. I, I don't want to go back. I don't, I can't go back. I don't wanna go back. I want this new life that Jesus offers, and so I cut off, you know, my old life and very quickly, I don't know, it, it literally, the scripture is that he gives you a new heart with new and right desires. I felt that. Mm-hmm. He just changed me from the inside out, and I am eternally grateful for that, that there's this passage in Philippians. That it's kinda a life first that just, messes with me. But it's, it's not, Philippians three, it says, not that I've already attained it. I'm already, not that I'm already perfected, but I press on towards the goal of the upper calling Christ Jesus. And then he says this phrase, he says, I must lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus laid hold of me that I'm not my own. He did that. So I would have a relationship with him and he would heal me and restore me and change me. It was for me, but it was also for something other than me that, you know, Jesus said, come and follow me and I'll make you fishers of man.

[00:28:10]
 So it wasn't just follow me, there was a purpose to it. And so for me, it's just been this up and down, rocky journey of I must lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus lay hold of me. He paid way too high of a price for me to just get up early and go to church. That's not what he died for. Although I do that, although that's a part of my faith journey, it's so much bigger than that. Like he died, like he gave his whole life. And I'm to give him my whole life. And I do it imperfectly of course, but I strive, I fight, I press on. I, I want, like he had something in mind that was worth his life in, in Jesus giving me his, his life, he purchased me. He had a plan for me and it's like I wanna my life. As best I can. Like what was that like? What did you have in mind for me? And how can I, I, I can't, I don't have to repay the Lord 'cause salvation's free, but there's just like indebtedness in me. Like, how good is God that while I was yet a sinner, he died for me. How good is God that when I was giving him the proverbial middle finger, like, he's like, okay, I still love you.

[00:29:21]
 I still have a plan for you, still have a purpose for you. Come follow me. Come follow me. Come follow me. I'll make you a fisher of men. Like I'll, I'll do something with your life that is beyond you. Mm. Like if you do that, just follow me. Come on. Like there's, there's people, there's more, and again, imperfectly. But that's been the journey. Like I just wanna say thank you. Yeah. With my life. 

[00:29:42] Dr. Nate Salah
That's that grace, that unmerited favor. That is so, it's almost impossible. I would even actually say it is impossible to fathom. Yeah. You know. It's, it's, and at the same time, it just brings us to our knees. Absolutely. The grace then that's poured out for us. And then the grace that we get to pour out mm-hmm. To others. Yeah. And receive, man, how many times have we not received the grace that was freely given? Absolutely. 

[00:30:22] Jason Goodson
Absolutely. I think that's part of it too, where it's just. I dunno, in, I guess in my own immaturity, the thought was, man, my whole life I've getting, I've gotten my behind kicked by the devil and it's like, I would just love to like, you know, take a shot back. You know, like, and like God's been so good to me. I just like, I don't want people to have to go through what I went through. Like, I'll talk to people sometimes and be like, man, your testimony's crazy what you went through. And man, like, I have a boring testimony. It was like. I'd rather have your boring testimony, honestly, come on.

[00:31:00]
I'd rather, have the testimony of this is what a life of faithful service to Jesus looks like when you're in elementary school, junior high, high school, college, and then as adult. I'd rather that testimony, I would have a lot less baggage if I had that testimony bring good. I want my kids to have that testimony, right? I don't want them to have my test. So, good testimony, bad testimony, man. I just, it's my story. and it's how God redeemed me, saved me, change me and it is what it is. But man, there is no such thing as a bad testimony. 

[00:31:28] Dr. Nate Salah
No, no. It's a provision either way. I. Absolutely. It's, it's either a provision through preservation Yeah. Through that preserve, you know model. Mm-hmm. Or it's a provision through life's challenges and struggles mm-hmm. Outside of the community of Christ. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And, and even within it you can say, well, I was outside of it because of the decisions I had made and whatever else is going on. And that's where the grace comes in. And someone listening, because I know that you've had. ESP in your pastoral role is discipling people who have, as you had mentioned, imperfect. It's an imperfect journey. Yeah. That's where grace comes in. Absolutely. You might take a step back, take two forward. 

[00:32:07] Jason Goodson
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's, the kind of a radical thought that when you like pause and sit with it, it just messes with you, is that God fully knows you and fully loves you. There's not a single person who fully knows you, but Jesus. Fully, completely like knows your thoughts, like knows what you did when you were 7, 12, 20, 45 and 81. Like knows that, knows what you will do, knows what you've considered doing, knows what you wish you would've done, but you just didn't have. You know, you just. He knows that you, not the fake Instagram put on a smile, you know, pastor on the stage, you, not that I, you know, whatever, not that I'm trying to be fake, but it's just the polished you, the podcast you like. He knows you like the, you, you and his eyes of love don't even flinch when he sees you. Like he's actually drawn to you, actually wants to be in a relationship with you. And it's that kind of love that puts me at ease that I don't have to perform here. I. There's a lot of good I want to do, and there's a lot of things I wanna stop doing, but it's not performance because he fully knows me. Yeah. And fully loves me. 

[00:33:24] Dr. Nate Salah
It's wild. Yeah. That's radical love. I. It's insane. That is the, the, the, the, the radical love of Jesus. And people tend to look at radical love, or the word radical, and they think, oh, you know, is this, is this a word that we should even be using? And it's, words are words. Right? Sure. They're neutral. It's how you express them. Yeah. But something to be radical, it's, it's a change in the fundamental nature of something. Yeah. What Jesus did, he changed the fundamental nature of how we understand love. Yeah. Period. Mm-hmm. By your description right there. Yeah. How much more exciting is life when I don't have to perform? Mm-hmm. When I don't have to have power, prestige, or position to be loved. None of that matters. Yeah. None of that matters. He actually loved us while we were still yet sinners. Absolutely. Hello. 

[00:34:16] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. And by the way. We still are yet sinners. Right? God loved you and he loved me and everyone on this planet, and you know this, there's never a face you're ever gonna see God doesn't love. 

[00:34:30] Jason Goodson
Absolutely. 

[00:34:30] Dr. Nate Salah
And there, by the way, this is important to even share with our loved ones and to say that, God, I hate to use the word can't, but God can't love you anymore any less. Yeah. He loves you fully. Yeah. Like you said. Absolutely. That's what I wanna say to my, my loved ones. Look. Mm-hmm. There's, I, there's nothing you can do to, to make me love you anymore any less. I wanna love you fully in the same way that God has loved me. Yeah. Fully. Wow. Yeah. Talk about words of life. That's when it's followed through. With our actions. Mm-hmm. Right? Because there's very clear prescriptions on the active love life, right? Mm-hmm. Going no further than one Corinthians 13, four through eight. We've got 15 characteristics, which I would encourage anyone listening to write on their hearts. Yeah. And to begin to live out in this journey of love.

[00:35:21]
 That, that, that first is ex exemplified and Jesus was very clear on mm-hmm. The greatest mm-hmm. Of the commandments. All the law, all the prophets are wrapped up in this one concept called love, and I'm gonna show you. By my whole complete love for you exactly how it is magnified, manifested and amplified in me through you. Yeah, that's good. That's fire bro. Come on, come on, come on. What is today? Monday. We're doing church on Monday. Let's do it. So someone listening right now is, is perhaps in a place where there's a loved one who's struggling in this way, or perhaps they're in this space. They don't really have answers. Or it might be a good starting place for someone like this. 

[00:36:09] Jason Goodson
Yeah, it's kind of what we were talking about with just how much God loves us and, I think something my parents did as best they could. when I was kind of walking through all that, like I knew no matter what I did, no how matter, no matter how dark it got, like they were in immovable. You know, source of love and they were always gonna be there for me, no matter what. And so I think just to have that safe place to I know when I'm ready. I know when I'm open, I know when, if I want to go there. I. I know I can. And so I think just trying to, with, you know, if you have a loved one who's struggling, you know, in a lot of these areas, just having a place where they can come to you and not be ashamed of it. Not be afraid of it, not feel like the moment. It's kind of a, so, I did open up at times to probably two or three people, over the course of, you know, years of depression. And I remember one, it was in a relationship with a girl. I told her, you know, I'm struggling, I'm, you know, suicidal. And she immediately flipped it and was like, how come you don't love me enough to not do that?

[00:37:24]
 Or how come I'm not enough that you would feel that way and. We didn't have another conversation like that because it wasn't safe. All of a sudden my pain became all about her, which was, you know, dysfunctional and, you know, very narcissistic in a lot of ways. But, but being the place that doesn't do that, like the, your loved one's, pain's not about you, it's about what they're going through. And so how can you help them? In a way that they feel safe to admit reality and it's not healthy for 'em, it's not good for 'em, but can they, are you a safe place for them to be vulnerable? Mm-hmm. Are they, are you a safe place? Do they, and not just Oh yeah, they are. Does that person feel that way? 

[00:38:11] Jason Goodson
Yeah. And that's the, you know, as a, as a dad, as a friend, as a, you know, coworker. Am I that safe place? Yeah. For other people. Um. Really, you know, trying to be that, trying to be the empathetic, care, caring, compassionate, thoughtful person that if someone's going through a hard time, I'm, I'm safe. Yeah. You know what said here stays here. I'm not gonna tell your business to everybody, not gonna judge you for it. Not, you know, critique you for it. Rather trying to do my best to represent Jesus and just love you. 

[00:38:44] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, man. That those, that's, that's, that's rock solid a as you were saying it, it kept reminding me of one John. Where he says perfect love casts out fear. And it's like, okay, what does that mean? Well, if you believe that God loves you perfectly, which he does mm-hmm. There's nothing to be afraid of. Yeah. And in that, for us, who are perhaps not in that, that seasonal life or that space where we're struggling with those burdens and we are called to be a Jesus. Mm-hmm. To that individual. we need to first, go to the source. Yeah, go to the source for that perfect love. And then allow that to permeate our lives so that we can be that servant leader to these individuals who need us. And I tend to look at, even there's pillars in, in this, if you will, the model of servant leadership and three of the primary aspects of servant leadership start like this. Listening. Mm-hmm. The first aspect of, of, of servant leadership is, and this is active listening, undivided attention. Right. I, I just, I want to hear you. I, I don't want to, I don't wanna, I don't want you to think that I've just got a rebuttal. I've just gotta say what I've gotta say. I just wanna listen.

[00:40:01]
 Yeah. The second aspect, empathy. Yeah. Right. Look, I care. Mm-hmm. I care about what you're going through. And then the third aspect is healing. Yeah, these are, this is, these are central to the model of servant leadership and where do we get the model from, clearly, right? Jesus said the greatest among you. The greatest among you is your servant. If anyone wants to be great, learn. To serve, and that's where he met people. Yeah. He met people in their worst possible circumstances, spiritually, emotionally, mentally, physically. Everywhere that they struggled. He met them there and he rebuked those who said, oh, what do you mean you're letting that woman, you know, cry on your feet and wipe your tear? Her tears with her hair, all this other, she's like, you know what? Guess what? The one who has been forgiven much loves Yeah. Much. Right? There's so much of a burden on people's shoulders. Don't put more burden on their shoulders. Yeah. 

[00:41:07]
Give them the peace and the love of Christ. And that's exactly where the heart of God comes from for us to model. And it doesn't come overnight either. No. And we might miss it. And this is another thing. It's like, Hey, you know what? I know you're struggling. I'm an imperfect person. Mm-hmm. I may not have the words to say. Yeah. I tell you what I can do, I can listen. Yeah. I can care. I can pray. Yeah. For your healing.

[00:41:33] Jason Goodson
Start there. It's beautiful. And I think too, something that I think just helps people kind of in their journey, you know, again, 'cause you come to Christ and you know, you're made new on the inside, but you gotta work that out. And I know for me, I came to Christ just with a lot of baggage from my past. And a lot of just, you know, self-doubt, a lot of insecurity, a lot of, just poor self-image and all that stuff. And I think what has just helped me in this, you know, kind of journey of becoming more like Christ, I. It's really changing the way, I think that's what the word, you know, repent at its core, is just to change the way you think. Like, believe God's thoughts, not your not yours and not the enemy's thoughts, like you believe what God has to say about you. And so it really, kind of been on a journey, still on it or just reframing how to think about myself, how to think about others, and they were just pervasive. Lies that I believed about myself, that I had to replace with truth.

[00:42:33]
 Like, you know, I'm not enough or, you know, I really just, you know, had a, a poor self-image, like, physically, like, you know, I, I wish I looked different or I felt like I wasn't smart enough, felt like I wasn't capable enough, wasn't gifted enough, wasn't good enough in a lot of areas, and just really getting to the place where I allowed God to. You know, reframe my own self-image and how I thought, and you know, even as a dad, like I've taken it, kind of knowing a lot of the insecurities I had and knowing just how the enemy works in people's lives. He's gonna attack your intelligence. He's attack how you look physically. He's gonna attack just all these different areas that you're not, you know, worthy of God's love and your relationship with him, and you're not good enough, you know, whatever, to attack all those areas. I do this thing with my kids, and I've done it since they were little. And I think it's just a good practice that, I wanna, I, I pray, just helps build up their self-esteem and security. But I, I do this thing with them. I go, Hey, what's daddy? Think about you. And then they repeat a handful of things. They say, I'm smart, I'm cute.

[00:43:39]
 You love me, you're proud of me. I'm a, if it's my daughter, I'm a brave leader, and I'll always be her buddy. Like, she repeats those things. I, I got videos of her. She's like two, three years old. Like, what's daddy think about you. Hope she goes, I'm brave, I'm smart, I'm cute. You love me, you're proud of me. Like there are statements I speak over them that from their father, they need to know. And in the same way, like all of us, we have a heavenly Father who has things he says about us. Like, I can't do it. Well, like you can do all things to Christ who gives you strength. You can't do it, but Christ can. Well, I, I'm not smart enough. Well, you have the mind of Christ. Well, I'm, I'm not, you know, fill the blank with what You're not well in Christ. You're made complete in Christ. You're made whole and you believing what God says about you. Reframing that rewiring you and then all of a sudden, yeah, like, yeah, I'm not good enough, but Christ in me. Like, yeah, I'm not smart enough, but man, I got the mind of Christ. Like, well, I can't do that. Well, I can pray for wisdom according to James, and he can gimme wisdom. Like I have a source in Christ that isn't, I don't have to look inward for help. I can look upward for help. Yeah. And I can go to him and say like. Okay. Yeah, I can't do this. And that's, that's why one of my, you know, favorite passages. It's in one Corinthians. It talks about not many noble, not many wise, not many gifted, not many of you know, noble birth are called because God chooses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise so that when I'm successful.

[00:45:11]
 People look at me and go, how are you successful? Because you're not, all these things. You're like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not that good. I'm not that gift. I'm not that awesome. Like, I'm not, I'm not, you know, God's gift to humanity. He was, you know, like I received him as a gift, you know, for me. And because I've received him, man, he's made me new. Yeah. And I'm, I'm not called and qualified because I'm amazing. Like, he made me new and I trust and lean on him and with him by my side. We can do anything. We're good. 

[00:45:40] Dr. Nate Salah
Come on. We're good. You are enough. We are enough. We are enough to be loved completely. We are enough to be loved wholly, we're enough to be loved fully, and that my friend is enough to live fully. That's good, bro. I have to have you back on the show. Let's do it. We've gotta do this. It'd a lot of fun. Thanks for being here. 

[00:46:01] Jason Goodson
Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. It's been a good time. 

[00:46:05] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, my friend, we did it. I'm so honored you were able to join me on this episode of A Call to Leadership now. This might not be for everyone because you really have to be in a certain place in order to take the kind of steps to level up your leadership. And I want you to be taking steps, and for those of you who feel like you're ready for something like this, there's a place you can go. You can go to our website, great summit.com. I'll make sure that's in the show notes. But here's the cool thing that we have. We've got a masterclass. We have all different kinds of events. We even have our leadership club where you can meet other people. Just like you to go deeper in your leadership journey. You and I'll get to spend some time together and really focus on aiming for greatness. I can't wait to see you there. I'm Dr. Nate Salah and this is A Call to Leadership.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Dr. Nate Salah

Host