A Call To Leadership

EP274: God Sees the Heart with Herbert Addison Burns

• Dr. Nate Salah

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If your business wins but your soul loses, is it really success? In this powerful conversation, Dr. Nate Salah and Herbert Addison Burns explore how biblical principles can elevate leadership, challenge cultural norms, and bring lasting joy that money can’t buy. From redefining respect in the workplace to confronting spiritual bankruptcy, they offer a radical reset for anyone chasing purpose over performance. Tune in to discover how faith-infused values can transform not only your business, but your life.


Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • Why spiritual obedience is more powerful than business metrics
  • How to lead without favoritism using Deuteronomy’s command on respect
  • What Jesus teaches us about character in the story of the rich young ruler
  • The difference between temporary success and eternal joy
  • How to bring biblical sanctification into your corporate culture


About Herbert Addison Burns
Herbert Addison Burns is a historian, educator, and faith-based leadership mentor with over 25 years of experience. He teaches Underground Railroad history at Tri-C Community College in Ohio and is a passionate advocate for biblical ethics in both education and business. A descendant of AME Church founder Rev. Milton Addison, Herbert combines deep historical knowledge with a calling to awaken character, self-identity, and spiritual purpose. He is also the publisher of The Underground Railroad Freedom Movement newsletter and the producer of three audiobooks on Black history.


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[00:00:00] Dr. Nate Salah
If you've been in business long enough, you know that the potential for compromise is going to happen. It's gonna happen when you're stressed, when you have the least amount of energy, and the compromise of your faith, your compromise of your integrity, of your morals, of your virtue, and it can come at a cost and the cost can sometimes be greater than what you're willing to pay. So we wanna stop that. We want to end. That cycle. I've invited a friend, Herbert Addison Burns, to join me on the conversation where faith and business collide to strengthen our fiber, to resist the urge to capitulate when it comes to walking in faith no matter what storm's approach can't wait for you to listen in.


[00:00:53]
 This is A Call to Leadership. Herb, great to have you on the show, my brother. It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, man. You know, you, you're, you've got a great experience, a great history, and background, not only your family, but of course your, your experience in, in the corporate world and that, that disparage, between, between faith values that are professed and faith values that are possessed. So, tell us a little bit about, about that background. 


[00:01:21] Herbert Addison Burns
Yeah, sure. I come from a family of ministers as a matter of fact, her father and three of her uncles were ministers. They all come from the AME church organization, and for those of you who are not familiar with the AME church organization, they've always had a strong belief and actually translating the sermon, the grandfather was a big believer in. He actually was involved in racial turmoil and trying to stabilize it during the mid, no, so the late sixties, but for me, I really didn't want to get involved in actually the brick and mortar and the traditional church. So, I started to get involved with actually ministering, to faith businesses who actually values. And the reason why I did that because looking back on my life, looking back on my work career, working in the traditional working environment, most business owners do not, or did not apply their biblical faith in the working environment. And when they. They're airing from the faith, they're airing from the ethical standards that are in the Bible.


[00:02:50] Dr. Nate Salah
Come on, man. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's where it's at. And what's so important about what you're saying is that, you know, we are representatives. And the way I understand ministers of reconciliation and ambassadors of Christ, we are, we are oftentimes the only scripture, the only Jesus people will ever see in the work environment. So if we are gonna be representatives, then we've gotta live by that higher standard. That doesn't mean. Shaming that means shaping. That doesn't mean condemnation, that means consecration. And in our work environments especially, we spend more time in the work environment than just about anywhere else. And so what an amazing place to create the, the seeds, if you will, and, and to lay the foundation for these biblical principles. You're, you're talking about. And, and let's talk for just a moment about some of those principles that you've witnessed in the workplace that perhaps have been either set aside or perhaps have been not elevated to their maximum ability and some of the detriments that happened 'cause of that.


[00:04:02] Herbert Addison Burns
Yes. One of the, the things that comes into my mind is when talks about. And when we think of respect in our everyday affairs, our everyday business affairs, we think about honoring a person or just giving them their due. But God has a a totally different meaning, and Christ has a totally different meaning when it comes to respect. And in the book of Deutero, chapter one 17, God says that you should give no respect. For a person who's rich and a person who's poor, they should be equally balanced. Mm. And and what I've seen in my working career, it's always lopsided. It's always lopsided, meaning that either people in the, the managerial staff or the person who's in this respect.


[00:05:09] 
A person who say, listen to sales workforce, maybe they're generating more sales. or maybe someone who comes from a privileged background or maybe someone who's just their friends with maybe someone that they have, a relationship with after work and they drink beers, but they transfer that relationship to. A commandment and not only a commandment, they're violating the teachers of Christ because John says that in order to have peace, you have to have respect. And when you give more respect, meaning honor to one person than another, you are violating your biblical principles. 


[00:05:53] Dr. Nate Salah
That is hard, man. And it's, it's so prevalent in the business environment and, and we think, well, you know, that that person is a higher value because they can either produce, as you said, more, more sales, or they may be, if it's a customer, they're gonna buy more goods for me, right? But that's not how it works in God's economy. we're all valued equally. In fact, it's not, and this is a hard concept. It's not the output that makes a person valuable. It's who they are in Christ that makes them valuable. That's, that's, that's a hard concept because it's like, wait a minute. Well, how do I then honor and respect all of them equally? Well, it's, it's, it's pretty straightforward, right? You don't look at the output as the measurement of respect and honor. 


[00:06:43] Herbert Addison Burns
You look at the human being, you really hit it on the. He judges according to the heart, but man judges according to outward appearance. And I was just reading before we got on the air in the Book of Samuel, when God gave Samuel a mission, he gave Samuel a mission to actually anoint and also he came with gonna give sacrifice. I think his name was EAB and eab. He said, no, I'm, I'm, I'm not gonna recognize him. I'm not gonna recognize him because of his stature. You know, I have actually disregarded him because man has a tendency always to judge according to outward appearances. But I judge by the heart and. How to judge by inward appearances. We always can't judge by again going by the amount of sales, if a woman looks good, or again, all these outward material things. And it brings to mind, I was in a seminar once and I was thinking about working for an insurance company. And the facilitator, he looked at one guy, 'cause everybody at that moment in time was to give a brief introduction.


[00:08:09]
 And this one man said, well. I worked for the military and then the facilitator three times, he said, I appreciate your service. I appreciate your service. I appreciate your service. And I'm wondering, did he just forget why is he always re repeating this recognition? And then it hit me. I said, maybe it could be. I'm not absolutely. The door is open for our good old boy network. Mm-hmm. It could be, and if that's the case, that is a total disregard of biblical principles because you are respecting one person to come into your closed network that has been transformed into the working environment as opposed to everybody else. And everybody else should be judged according to how.


[00:09:11] Dr. Nate Salah
It reminds me in the Jesus model, all of this flawlessly, it reminds me of the, of course, the story of the rich young ruler who, as you know, you know, came to Jesus. And of course he lauded his, his accomplishments and said, you know, he was able to, you know, followed all the commands. And I imagine when, when he walked up to Jesus, people looked around and said, oh, that guy's got, you know, he's got wealth. You know, give him, give him a little bit of room, give him some respect, right? Because he's, he's. Made it right. He's the one who's, he's gotten the blessing and he says, you know, Jesus doesn't even commend him or, or discuss, his wealth in terms of the value of his wealth, in terms of his, his character. He goes right to his character because the gentleman says, Hey, you know what must I do? He's like, okay, you wanna follow me? Go sell your go. Sell everything you have, give it to the poor, then come follow me. Because he is testing his character. That's not the case with every single person. But he knew where that man's heart was. Right. And what did he do? The Bible says very clearly, he went away sad. You never heard about this guy again? Don't know. Likely, likely. He is like, well, I'm not going, you know, that's, I've got a different God. And it's called money. It's called possessions, and I'm not willing to sacrifice that. And what does Jesus say next?


[00:10:26]
 He says. It's easier for, it's more difficult for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven than it is for a camel to go through the eye of the needle. Now, of course, there's a couple different variations of that needle, analogy. One is that there was a gate, in Jerusalem, which, camel had to, get on its hands and knees or hands and knees or paws and knees to enter through there. It had to, it had to humble. Had to humble itself to get through. That's, that's one analogy to get through there. And so, you know, one way to look at that, of course, an eye of a needle is, you know, another way is, is the actual eye of a, of a real, a sewing needle. But however, the first one makes the most sense because it's, it's, it would've been relevant to the individuals who were there in Jerusalem at the time. And what Jesus is saying here is like, I don't, I don't care about. Your material wealth. That doesn't move my needle. What about your heart? What about your character? What about who you are on the inside? What are you willing to give up to get up into my presence? And, and, and that's really the question we have to be asking rather than saying, oh, you know, you're, you're big time. You deserve all the respect, right? 


[00:11:43]
It's a diff it's a, it's, it's a flip of the script. Yes, it's a flip of the script, you know what I'm saying? And that to me is, it's refreshing. You know? It's refreshing because man, you know this, we live in a world that is so focused on. Performance in terms of like, oh, you know what? You've got this or you got that. You drive this car, you got this bag, you got this. You know? And that way, you know, and that's like the measurement of whether or not you have value in society. And that's, you know what? That's just not God's route. That's not God's route at all. And in business we have to, we have to take a hard look. Yeah, and we have blind spots. All of us have blind spots. So that's, that's the whole idea behind sanctification, right? 


[00:12:29] Herbert Addison Burns
Yes, yes, yes, we do.


[00:12:30] Dr. Nate Salah
But, but, but it's time, it's time to really, truly be set apart in how we think, right? By the renewing of our minds. Right? That's, you know, this, that's part of the part that's part of the setting apart is, are we different in this world to where we're not respecters of men in terms of what they have and we don't have, but we're respecters of God and we give honor and praise to God for the character that they put in men, that that's, that's put in men and exemplified in this world. 


[00:12:59] Herbert Addison Burns
And these are the lessons that I wish I, I would with when I stray. I got caught up in the world and got caught up into vanity, got caught up into, the attraction of material wealth. but I'm just thankful that, later on in my life that God reached out to me and said, Hey, look, herb, yeah, you have to earn money. Of course, you know, I, I want you to provide for your family, you know, but let introduce you and true riches, which in this life and.


[00:13:38] Dr. Nate Salah
 Yes. And those true riches are, and you know, some scoffers might say, well, those riches aren't going to, to bring you happiness. And, and I I would disagree. Not only do they bring you happiness, but they bring you joy. And joy is a much even deeper, a, a deeper place to go. And it's interesting, this, this relationship, like, you know, we're talking about being blessed in a way, right? Because some might say you're blessed. Because of what you have. You were talking about privilege earlier, right? Because all of us have different types of privileges based on, based on a number of factors, where we're born, where we're, how we, you know, how we come up, et cetera, et cetera. How, how long we've been in business, et cetera, right? There's so many different factors in that. It's interesting when Jesus opens his ministry in Matthew chapter five with the Sermon on the Mount and the beatitudes, the very first word that comes out of his mouth is blessed. Blessed are right. He goes through the, the, the seven and eight beatitudes.


[00:14:40]
 Blessed are the meek and so on and so forth. Blessed are those were persecuted and so on. The word blessed isn't the same kind of blessed that we would look at as if you, like you said, Hey, we're boys. You're gonna gimme that, that, that inside scoop on that job. Or you know, I've, you know, I got the highest sales volume so I'm gonna be sitting first at the table. That's not what he's saying. 'cause as you know from the scripture, Jesus flips the whole thing. Right. He was first will be last. Right. And he was greatest among you, right? Is the least in the kingdom. So the word blessed vicarious is the Greek for that word. And what, what that word means, it is an inward joy that is not dependent on external circumstances. Man, who? Who would want that? Who would want an inward joy, a life joy? That no matter what happens outside of you, that it burns. It burns hot. So that you don't have to deal with the vanity and all of the, all of those other things, or feeling like, oh, well I have to, I have to look good in front of people, or I have to perform a certain way in front of people for them to accept me.


[00:15:48]
 And the opposite of that is like, Hey, you know what? I'm just gonna roll with God and I'm gonna be, I'm gonna have this life joy that no matter what happens in my life that I'm going to have that. You can't buy that. That's right. You can't buy that. That's right. And, and in business, I think, here's the thing, and I I, and I, I appreciate you sharing it with the vulnerability. I fell away too. You know, I was wayward. I, man, lemme tell you, my twenties, it was all about the, the money, the cars. Mm-hmm. The girls, the parties. Right. I mean, if, I'm just gonna be honest, that was because that was what society told me was that was success. Mm-hmm. And what happens? Okay, great. So I get that. And then what happens? Well, a spiritual bankruptcy, family's torn, isolated communities, lack of purpose, depression. Mm, well, well, hold on a second. I, I thought that was supposed to be the way, well, why, why do I feel this way? Why do I feel empty when I have all that? And that's because we will spend so much time climbing that corporate ladder or that ladder of success, whatever it was. Get to the very top and realize this whole time it was, it was leaning against the wrong building. 


[00:17:01] Herbert Addison Burns
And listen to what you just said. you were spiritually bankrupt. And there was that void inside of you. And you also said that you can't not put a price tag on your inner happiness. There's just no value for it. And I was also thinking. I think it's in the book of, Jeremiah where the word came to Jeremiah to warn King. well, some say, Jehovah Kim, but there's no J in the Hebrew language, so was Jehova Chem Jehovah Kim. And how he just totally disrespected the word of God, you know, because the voice of God came through Jeremiah and Jeremiah warned him, you know, but basically rejected. Murth. The definition or the meaning of murth in the Hebrew language is sleep. So okay, you're gonna reject God's word. You have all these riches, but you're not gonna be able to have any contentment when you sleep. We're gonna take that away first. And that's what happened. And that came before physical destruction. So that was the first, and that's ponder. A lot of us, when we have it, or even if we don't have it, we're constantly worried about how we're gonna live. We don't sleep peacefully. Because we don't, we don't have that shalom. We don't have that inward peace. We don't have it. And as you said, under any circumstances, God tells us when we actually give our life to him, he'll give us peace.


[00:18:46] Dr. Nate Salah
Yes. Yes. Amen. And I think that's, if you. And that to me is, is the first really, the first step, the first starting place. Right? Because even Jesus says it when, you know, when, when just after Peter tells him, you know, he's, he's, he is gonna protect him. He is not gonna go let him, let him go through all those, those sufferings, right? And that, you know, Peter, you know Peter, big guy, right? Right. Big guy. And he was actually kind of puffed up because. He had just affirmed Jesus, his, his, his lordship. And, and then Jesus told him, you know, on that, on that statement, that rock, he would build his, his, his church, right? So, so I can imagine Peter's like, oh, I feel pretty good right now, you know, and then Jesus, he starts saying, all the things that are gonna happen to him, all the sufferings are gonna fall upon him and Right.


[00:19:35]
 And, and so forth. And then Peter's like, oh, no, no, no, no, I got you. And then the very next thing Jesus says is, it's, it's, it's, it hits you squarely in the face. Get me behind me, Satan. I mean, come on. When, when, when you say that, because what Peter was doing, you know what Peter was doing? He was looking out after his own personal interests. He wanted to feel good in this life. He's like, well, Jesus is gonna be the one who's gonna get us what we want. They wanted liberation, right? They wanted, they wanted to be out from under that Yoko, the Romans, they wanted power, prestige position. And Jesus is like, look, bring it around fellas. Lemme just bring it around. Lemme, lemme tell you a thing or two about this, this journey. And then he goes through and explains it very clearly. If anyone, and I mean anyone were to come after me, step one, let him deny himself. Two, take up his cross, and then follow me. What is a prophet? A man to gain the whole world and lose his soul. Come on and lose his soul. No clearer statement. We gotta start there.


[00:20:41]
Yeah. I believe in, in the business world, we have to start there to deny myself, take up my cross and then follow him. That's like step three was follow him. He's like, no, no. I don't want you to just to, to roll me. I, I need you to do a couple things before we even get there, because I don't want you focusing on gaining this whole world. It'll leave you empty. It'll leave you miserable. And you know this, you've seen it. I've seen it, yeah. So that's a starting place. 


[00:21:06] Herbert Addison Burns
Yeah, that's, that's a starting point. And, and with, the apostles, they were on a special mission, because they were blessed, with the Holy Spirit. So therefore, after they were blessed, there was no longer need for them to even be concerned about how they were gonna be taken care of. And that's why the Messiah told him, told them that, and he gave them the parable of the raven. When the raven goes and comes back, the raven is taken care of. So how much better are you over the raven? Because they had the, the spiritual blessing, and there were, at that time, they were about to be commissioned to spread the gospel throughout the whole world. So they had this covering that they didn't have to worry like we do as ordinary people to be worried about how they're gonna earn their daily bread. And I believe that's what the Messiah was trying to tell them. Mm-hmm. For us, for us, although we're not on on that spiritual level, but we should still have this whole story and marinate in our minds, you know that once we have that faith. God tells us and Jesus tells us that, you know, we're gonna be taken care of. And when a business owner, when they're going through the rollercoaster ride, that financial rollercoaster ride, and they're on a down moment, that's when the test comes. 


[00:22:36] Dr. Nate Salah
That's exactly when the test comes. Yeah. It comes for all of us. And. It hits hard sometimes. It's like, reminds me of when Peter was in that boat and Jesus was walking. You know, we take it for granted when you see that walking on water. Mm. but just meditate on that for just a second. I, I know you, I know you have. I know you have. It's gotta be jaw dropping in. You and all your boys, you know, all the fellas are in that, that, that boat and it's rocking and you see him. And first I would do is I would take it like, okay, am I seeing something? Am I hallucinating? Is this really happening? And, you know, and Peter jumps right out and, and he, you know, he starts walking on water. Amazing. But then what happens? He looks around. What does he see? All the troubles. He sees all the troubles.


[00:23:32]
 And this is a great metaphor for our lives, and especially in the business world because the troubles are coming. What are we gonna focus on? Where are our eyes pointed? If our eyes are pointed on the troubles, guess what? We are gonna sink. But if our eyes are focused on God, then he's gonna, he's gonna bring us through. Now here's the beauty of it though. The beauty of that story is that he began to sank. And guess who still caught him? Still helped him up. Still who walked with him back to that boat. God's not leaving you. God's not leaving you. Even if you, even if you sink a little bit. Mm-hmm. He's got you. But you gotta reach out your hand. Yeah, sure. You gotta reach out your hand and say, okay, you know, I need you. And in the business world I've faced it, man, I've faced it, you've faced it. And we're gonna continue to face these trials and we have to be plugged into the source. We have to be plugged into the word of God because God's will is in God's word.


[00:24:29]
 I believe that wholeheartedly. If you ever want people, if you, if you're ever confused about, well, what? What? You know, I don't know what God's will is. Get into his word. Get into it. That's where you're gonna find freedom. Jesus said it right there, and John 8 31 through 33 34, what does he say? If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciple. You will know the truth and what's gonna happen. The truth will set you free. 


[00:24:53] Herbert Addison Burns
You free. And I like what you said when you gave that story about when the adversary was trying to attempt the Messiah. Mm. And the Messiah always went back to the word. Mm-hmm. And that's another lesson for us. So when we're going through these trials and tribulations, we have to go back to the word. We're spiritual comfort and we're gonna get help. And not only that, that will help us engrain the word in our mind, not just read it and, let it go through. It's like an arrow, but marinate over it and let it set, let it become rooted. And that has to become, a daily ritual for us. Yes. During the, during, during the course of the dayja. God has allowed me to get into that habit. during the course of the day, I go over the word, even if it's just 10, 15 minutes. when I'm in a car, when I come home from work, I thank God, you know, when, when I wake up, I thank God for allowing me to open my eyes and put my feet on the ground. So, you know, these, these are just things that we should always be. And when we do that, we're putting God first. And that's the first commandment. That's right. That's right. That's the Exodus chapter 22. You know, thou to not worship no other God besides me because when you have your mind constantly focused on making money, money is your God. Mm. 


[00:26:31] Dr. Nate Salah
That's right. Hmm. That's why, that's why the scripture says, God, you know, no one can serve both God and money.


[00:26:37] Herbert Addison Burns
Right. You can't. Man, ma ma his money. Mm-hmm. And it's, and it's also real estate property as well. 


[00:26:45] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. Yeah. And that's important. Exactly. Well, you know, whatever that is. Now that doesn't mean that you are not to multiply, increase it for God's glory. That that's a, that's a much different experience. Right? Because money is not your God anymore. You're using it to, to bless the kingdom and to help people with it. Right? In fact, my son, years ago. He was young. And, and if though, for those who heard the podcast here and there, you may have heard me told this story before, but he was, he was young and he said, dad, is it wrong to want to be rich? And then here, check this out Herb. He goes, really rich? 


[00:27:19] Herbert Addison Burns
I said, oh, he qualified. 


[00:27:21] Dr. Nate Salah 
He qualified. He is a really rich dad. And I started laughing and I said, well, son, lemme tell you. There's, there's, you know, I've seen people destitute all the way to never have to work a day in their life, in my, in my 30 years of, of being in the financial services sector and, and helping people around that, that area. And so I've never been impressed by a. How many decimal, how many zeros are on the, on the other side of that decimal point after that one in someone's bank account, right? Million, 10 million. A hundred million billion. I said, what's truly remarkable isn't that at all, it's what you do with what you're entrusted with to bless those in need. That is exactly the purpose of wealth, is that you can use it. To help you. What is, what is, what are the greatest commands? Love God. Love people. Right. So it's, it's, it's a way that you can use it to love, because then don't look at it like it's your money. Everything we have is on loan. Yeah. My, my, my, my physical health.


[00:28:21]
 Yeah, my mental health. Yeah. My financial health, my spiritual health. Everything You own everything I own and hypothetically own. Right. Eventually someone else is gonna own it. That's how it works. So, so the bucket that that, that the Lord has poured into my life, whether it be my time, my talent, or my treasures, is the question of how much it is. The question is how am I using it to multiply and increase what I'm entrusted with for the sole purpose? There's a sole purpose of that. It's in the parable of talents. At the end of the day, it's not whether I've multiplied it 10 x or five x three x. It's the fact that I have simply been obedient. Hmm. Because you can control a lot of things in life. Some things we can't control. There's a lot of things in life that are going left and right and planning and this and that. There's one plan that always works, never fails obedience. So being obedient to multiply and increase those, those, those blessings.


[00:29:23]
 One, the one statement that we want to hear more than anything else when we go to meet God is this well done, good and faithful servant, come and die. The only way to do that is through obedience. Forget about the numbers. That's a tough, that's a tough lesson in the business world because it's all about the numbers, right? Herb? 


[00:29:43] Herbert Addison Burns
Yes, it's, yes. It. It is, an abomination if you want to make haste to be rich because it breeds greed. That's what it does, and it breeds pride. Mm-hmm. And he also says that pride is the beginning of sin because you turn your heart away from God. Yes. That's you have. Infested in your heart, that means that all other sins are gonna basically branch out from that one sin, and that's the whole purpose. We talked about that before in this podcast, is being humble because when we're humble, we have grace and gracious God's approval. Now, if God gives us riches, that's a whole different story right there. That is a blessing because Solomon asked for wisdom. He did, he asked for wisdom and God said, well, hey, you know, since you didn't ask for the life of your enemies, you didn't ask for riches. You know, I'm, I'm gonna give you riches. Mm-hmm. And that's a blessing. But as you said, what did he do with it? Mm-hmm. He had to make sure that his kingdom was well taken care of with those, with that wealth. 


[00:30:59] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. No. Amen. Amen. So, hey, you know what, if, if, if you're listening and you've got you, you're saying, you know, I, I. Is it wrong to be? Is it, let's just answer that question. Is it, is it wrong to want to be rich? I mean, really rich. I think the, the, we're asking the wrong questions. The real question is, how am I gonna be obedient with what I'm entrusted with? And, and that's the heart of it. If you end up being filthy rich and you're using it to bless people, fantastic. That's, that's beautiful. If you want, if you, the, if you end up, unfortunately. Coming to a place where you have a love of money, well. That's the root of all kinds of evils. It's, it's very clear. And and, and that's a dangerous place because we know greed is a disease. I dunno if you've ever watched, there was a show called American Greed, I dunno if it's still on, on tv, but I used to watch that show Herb, and it was really about scammers.


[00:31:54]
 I. Whether it was Bernie Madoff and others, and a lot of like attorneys who scammed their clients and all kinds of scammers. And when I watched that, I realized that this, this idea of greed is a disease. Like people can't have enough because many of these people were already wealthy and, and they just, they, they had to prey on others because it was, it was, intoxicating to them. And it's true. And it's like we have to, you know, the only way to quell that disease is to, you have to die to self. That, that very first thing that Jesus said, right. Because it might not be money, it might be something else, it might be power, it might be prestige, it might be position. Mm-hmm. And in your comment earlier about when we falter and we, we have a, challenges in our, our business world, it could be also in our, our family life.


[00:32:45]
 Our community life, our, our spiritual life. Go back to the word. I love how you, how you emphasize that, because. You may be having trouble with payroll or perhaps there's an employee issue or maybe one of your bigger clients has has left to go to another firm or whatever it might look like, right? Any of these things can happen on any given day, and to have that life joy that's not dependent on the external circumstances, it's precarious. This true blessing that Jesus is talking about. It's because you're plugged into the source. See, when you were plugged into the source, which is God and God's word, then. We, we've got this, this power supply that's constantly on, right? Mm-hmm. This is where you're talking about if it's plugged into the resource, right?


[00:33:28]
 The resource, which could be a client or, an employee or, an account, and that source gets cut off, then gets what's happened. My power source gets cut off, and I, and I have no more joy. It's because we're not plugged into the source. You don't plug into the resource. Resources are important and they're necessary, right? If we, we gotta bypass, bypass The resources go right to the source so that no matter what resource gets disc connected, you are constantly connected to the source of all the love, all the love, all the love that you can ever imagine, which gives you the faith and it gives you the antidote to fear. Because in First John, what does it say? Perfect love casts out fear, right? Because fear has to do with condemnation. There's no condemnation in Christ. So if we believe that God loves us perfectly and he does, what do we have to be afraid of? 


[00:34:26] Herbert Addison Burns
That's it. And he's given us, Paul tells us in Timothy, he's, he's given us not the spirit of fear, but a, but a power of love. And so mind, come on. Come on. So if, if we do have fear as you just said. That's coming from the enemy. That's coming from the adversary, right? The adversary.


[00:34:46] Dr. Nate Salah
Yes. The divider. The one who seeks to get between, get between what you and your power source. Mm-hmm. You see, that's always, that's always the, the, that's the angle. So we have to know the devices and the angle so that we can pray, we can prepare, and we can protect ourselves from that adversary. And then what happens in our business world, herb, it begins to be healthy and thriving. Sure. And our clients begin to see the respect we have from them, not by the dollar signs in their in, in their pockets, but by the value inherently in them as human beings. And our desire to serve and love them no matter what station they have in life. Including our employees, including our suppliers, everyone around us. And it will change the dynamic, the entire dynamic of this environment. And people will begin to find that your countenance, your brand itself, begins to evolve into something that is entirely different than the world ever professes to be successful in business.


[00:35:52] Herbert Addison Burns
And that's, and that's something that is lacking from what I've seen today, not only in business or as a business owner, but I see that within a lot of companies, if you just look at the different products, they ain't the, they're not the same quality at a lot of places you don't receive the same type of service, and it all boils down to a lower standard of biblical ethics. They just aren't, they just, they just aren't there. But once they resurrected, as you said, that will manifest into the work environment. 


[00:36:26] Dr. Nate Salah
Yes. Yeah. And that's, that's all we teach in our, our faith infused leadership community. Our, our community. G3 is what we, we, we, grow, give, go. So our, our model is grow purposefully to be growing full of purpose. Of course, that's because Jesus says, I've come to each have life and have it what to the full, right? So that we, we, we receive that, give generously that second piece, right? Because. When you give generously, cheerful is a generous giver. And then go the third G. Go love radically. And why is it radically? Because Jesus' love was different than any other kinda love you could ever imagine. It was the kind love that. Challenge the concept of how we even understood love to be by his willingness, not only to live the life that he lived, teach the life that he taught, but also die, the life that he died for us to understand and to embrace that grace you talked about, that free unmerited favor that is poured out upon us through this journey we call sanctification in life, right?


[00:37:38]
 We, we wanna embrace that because man, you know, life is, you know, this, you know, we're not, spring chickens anymore. You and I, you know. No, we're, we're, we're on the other side. We're, we're on the, we're on the backside of the journey, right? Yeah. and, it might sound like it's a cliche, but man, life is just moving so fast and, slow. Hit the brakes. Hit the brakes just a little bit. And like you said, just pause. Pause. In the craziness of this world. To just, just be still and know that he's, Lord. Herb, I got a question for you as we, as we close. Sure. one day, you, my friend, just like myself and everyone else will be on that, we'll call that that great summit, that at that very, end of, of this, this side of the journey side of eternity, and you'll see all the people who you had an opportunity to, be involved with and bless. What's one thing that you would have liked others to have said about you? 


[00:38:38] Herbert Addison Burns
I would like others to say that I did everything I could to pass the word on to the younger generation to help them with their moral character. What I see right now so much is we talked about moral character and biblical ethics, that are lacking and there's a state of confusion and what I. Of effort to help those who are coming after him to have a better life. And that would help not only for those who are younger, but also to have a better, more peaceful environment. That's what I would like for them to say about me. 


[00:39:26] Dr. Nate Salah
Amen. Well, my friend, you are on your way. Thanks for being here. Thank you very much for having me. Well, my friend, I am so thrilled that you join me on this episode of A Call to Leadership. And before you go to the next episode, especially if you're binge-listing, take a moment. I would love to get your honest review right here on your screen. Your feedback is so important. It helps the podcast. Cast. It encourages me and it helps me. It helps me to give you more and more and more value, so I can't wait to read your review. I can't wait to be with you on the next episode. I'm Dr. Nate Salah. This is A Call to Leadership.

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