A Call To Leadership

EP277: Perseverance, Character, & Hope with Deborah Razo

• Dr. Nate Salah

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What happens when life breaks you, but you refuse to stay broken? In this episode, Deborah Razo shares the raw truth behind raising kids alone, surviving a devastating car accident and cancer diagnosis, and rebuilding a business and mindset from the ground up. Through fear, financial pressure, and physical pain, she chose faith, forged resilience, and built a legacy that empowers women to grow both self-worth and net worth. Her story is a masterclass in perseverance, leadership, and grace under fire. Tune in and discover what it really takes to live boldly, lead faithfully, and rise again.


Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • Why Deborah chose entrepreneurship instead of comfort and never looked back
  • How struggle became the foundation for generational impact
  • What a near-fatal car accident revealed about God, purpose, and the power of passive income
  • The quote that changed everything and how discomfort became a tool for growth
  • How Deborah continues to move forward without letting fear take the lead


About Deborah Razo
Deborah is an entrepreneur, real estate investor, and founder of the Women’s Real Estate Network (WREN). After starting her first business in 1990, she shifted from running a design firm to flipping homes in Southern California, netting six figures on her first deal. With training from UCLA’s Anderson School of Management and Rich Dad Advisors, she now builds long-term wealth through development and buy-and-hold investments. Deborah is passionate about helping women grow in confidence, faith, and financial independence.
 


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[00:00:00] Dr. Nate Salah
Have you ever been in a situation or situations where no matter how hard you tried, everything seemed to go wrong? Well, if you've been in that space, you're gonna love this conversation. And my friend Deborah Razo brings it. She's got massive life experience as a single mom, as a real estate investor. Just clawing to make ends meet, then, massive car accident battling cancer. You name it, she has experienced it and has come out with a massive, intentional faith that is not only endearing but inspiring. Can't wait for you to listen in. I'm Dr. Nate Salah. This is A Call to Leadership, Deborah. Welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:54] Deborah Razo
Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. 

[00:00:56] Dr. Nate Salah
Oh my goodness. Yes. We've been anticipating this day. You've come all the way from California, I know to be with me and, it's such a treat to share your story with our listener. You have had a, dare I say, exciting life so far, year to date, right? You, Hmm. Lots of challenges, lots of dips and turns, and they've continued to prepare you, for the work ahead. I just wanna start with a little introduction on your journey. Your, we'll get into some trials we'll get in some triumphs, but getting into life, tell me about when you decided I'm gonna be an entrepreneur. What was that like? 

[00:01:44] Deborah Razo
It was during a very tumultuous time in my life I was actually getting a divorce and there I was faced with the challenge. I had a three-year-old and a one-year-old at the time. Um. And, you know, they're actually grown adults now. This was over 30 years ago, although I haven't aged a bit. yeah. And I had to make a decision. And the decision was do I put the kids in childcare or do I become an entrepreneur and I had a side gig at the time, and make the side gig, the full gig so that I could be around my kids. Right. And, it was a no-brainer question. And I think that, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs are built that way. Like they, when they, you know, say, well this is no not an option for me, and it wasn't an option for me to hand the kids over to be. Raised by somebody else while I'm grinding it, right? So I was like, well, I'm gonna grind it and raise them with, you know, and I, I'm gonna have to start a business to do that.

[00:02:49]
 And so, and so I just did like, you know, there was no turning back for me that that wasn't an option. And, you know, I think people nowadays have said, burn the boats. I, you know, you hear that phrase, you know, burn the boats. But the fact of the matter is you kind of have to, sometimes, that's the commitment that it takes to have a business, not a hobby. 

[00:03:11] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. What boats did you have to burn? 

[00:03:13] Deborah Razo
I had to burn the boat of thinking that I was gonna go back into an office and, you know, leave my kids during the, during the day. You know, and so I had to like go, Nope, that's not an option. You're, you're gonna need to figure out how to run a business. Right. That's it. Like that's where you're going and you need to figure out how to generate income for that business. So, I mean, I was a young single mother and it was like, yeah, this is what you gotta do. 

[00:03:39] Dr. Nate Salah
Do you remember how you felt during that period of transition? 

[00:03:42] Deborah Razo
Totally scared, right? You know, up in the middle of the night. Kinda scared. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Not knowing how I'm gonna make it. Yeah, right. And through that time there was a lot of, realizations that popped. I, I remember being about a year into it, and I was having problems being paid by some of my clients, and it was nearing Christmas, and I was like, how am I gonna put presents under the tree? You know, very much worried about that. And I had a friend who had just got laid off. And we were like, misery loves company. We were on the phone talking about it all and he was like, you know, the thing that really freaked me out is that I didn't see it coming in this corporate, you know, world. He just, one Friday got laid off, right? And I was thinking, wow, you know, he's trading, working at a corporate world for a false sense of security. And I'm trading entrepreneurship for a false sense of, you know, freedom. Mm-hmm. Right, because the, you think that when you're an entrepreneur, you have all this freedom, right? Yeah. Do you really? We can have a discussion about that.

[00:04:56] Dr. Nate Salah
No, that's, that's it. That's it. I, I, I love how you phrased all that because it just reminds me of the choices we make, right? We make so many choices in life, and those choices lead us a certain direction. That direction leads us to a certain destination and like, this is the whole idea around vision. We talk so much about vision, especially in our, our community and in our, in our group and our planning. And you think about your decisions then. I mean, how many years ago was this? 30. 30 years ago. Wow. Just over 30. Yeah. Yeah. Same. I, 30 years ago, just celebrated 30 years, as you know, in. It's scary. Scary. Oh my goodness. It's so scary. the unknown, and like you talk about security, it's like, okay, well what's my sense of security? And don't get me wrong, I, I applaud people who stay in the, in the workforce. From a, from a, from an employee perspective, I. I don't believe in the cockamamie of like, everyone needs to be an entrepreneur. If you're not an entrepreneur, then you're missing out. Like, yeah, who's gonna take, who's gonna pick up your trash?

[00:05:58]
 You know, folks who are saying that, who's gonna do your, your, get your groceries to the, to the grocery, all this stuff, right? We need a wide range of people who have different desires and intentions and levels of, of security in different areas. Right? But for, for someone who's taking that entrepreneurial leap. It's literally one of the scariest things you're gonna do in your life. now granted, you can make the argument that well, going to work for someone is scary too, and that that can be as well. It's just a different kind of experience altogether. Yeah. Difficult to describe. 

[00:06:33] Deborah Razo
Yeah. I, I think it is. And I, I, I agree with you. We need a diverse workforce and, and I think there are those that have a fire in their belly and, you know, want to make something work for themselves. Mm-hmm. You know, and you know, you know, I coach a lot of women entrepreneurs, you know, and. In that, you know, in that arena there are a lot of entrepreneurs that are starting out that are really hobbyists. They're not, they're not creating the income that they need to make a business survive. And it's really a mindset shift to, you know, step your business out of being a hobby and into being a real business. Something that you can rely on. Right. And create your own sense of security with. Right. I mean, I remember at the beginning of my business, I was white-knuckling it every month thinking how am I gonna make rent for the next month?

[00:07:25]
 Right? And then it got easier. And then it got easier, and then it got easier, you know, until like. You know, five years in, six years in, I, you know, I didn't think about that anymore. I was thinking about how do I grow this? Right. You're think your, your, your strategies changed.

[00:07:40] Dr. Nate Salah
Different seasons, right? Yeah. So the, the first season is really just planting the seed and protecting it because you, you know, it's so fragile early on, like any planting. So you have all these elements that can destroy it. Well, if you, if it's destroyed, it won't be any fruit. And that fruit literally is feeding you. Feeding your family, paying your bills. I remember so many days, ram noodles, I know it's a cliche, but they were cheap back in the day. Aldi bread was a quarter and I get, you know, just bologna and it's like, okay, I'm good. I'm good for at least a few days. Yeah. You remember those days? 

[00:08:21] Deborah Razo
Oh my, I remember those days. And my kids remember those days. I mean, you've met both my children now and they knew, right? Like when, when mom was serving spaghetti and potatoes or when, when she was taking 'em out for steak dinners. Right. Like depending on how mom's business was going, how much fruit was, was bearing. Yeah. You know, it's, you know, it's definitely that, you know, and, and there is some. You know, variance in your, in your income. Mm-hmm. Right? And, you know, how do you deal with that? Uncertainty. My brother, who, you know, went, you know, into the Air Force, you know, we've had long discussions about this. He's very, you know, there's certain paths to take, you know, like you always know the path. You always know what you're getting paid when you're getting paid, you know how it's all gonna work. Right. And there's, there's a certainty about that, that he really loved, you know, and, you know, he was like, I don't know how you do it. You know? And I'm, and I'm like, well, I'm used to this now, so this is. Not as something I have to overcome anymore. Yeah. Right. Like, it's like, oh, I, I know I'm being taken care of. I'm, I'm okay. 

[00:09:33] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. You mentioned your kids, and I have met your kids. Kids are amazing and they're in leadership and in business, it's, it's been called the holy Grail of motivation. Leadership is understanding really what moves people. How did the kids tie into your motivation early on? 

[00:09:52] Deborah Razo
Well. All the motivation at the beginning because I made the choice to start my first business because. I didn't wanna leave them, you know, so, and I, you know, they didn't know that they were one and three at the time, you know, but they were so young and at that so impressionable and, you know, I wanted to be around and I. And see all that and be available to that, you know, even, you know, they're going to preschool or whatever. I wanted to be around afterwards and so, you know, you make sacrifices. You know, I swung my schedule. A lot of times I was working after I put them to bed, but I was with them after they were off of school. You know, like you have to think outside of, traditional work box. 

[00:10:35] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. You know? Yeah, I a hundred percent agree. Do I suspect you remember those faces when you had a hard day looking at them? 

[00:10:44] Deborah Razo
Yeah, and you know, I had, ways of letting off steam. I'll just say that I actually don't, didn't realize I was teaching them at the time, like sometimes when I had a hard day, you know, there's tension, right? There's tension in me, and I didn't want that to be how the evening went with them. And so. For me, music is a huge motivator and I would blast like great hard B rock music. Oh, come on. And we would, we would dance around the living room, right? All of us just dance and dance and dance and sing and dance. And we, you know, until we were just kind of like exhausted and it would just relieve the tension. And then it was like, okay, now mom's making dinner. You know, like, alright. You know, and so yeah, you find ways of. You know, dealing with things, so it's good. 

[00:11:34] Dr. Nate Salah
Any, any favorite rock songs that you remember blast?

[00:11:37] Deborah Razo
Well, I have to say that my kids and I are experts at Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen come. Right. We know all the words. We all have. There are different like parts to it. Yeah. We're, we're pretty good at it. 

[00:11:49] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, one of these days when we get 'em all together, maybe we can do an ensemble. 

[00:11:53] Deborah Razo
Yeah. You won't have us, you won't have any problem having us sing along.

[00:11:57] Dr. Nate Salah
Nice. You know that that's touching and it's so important to find that depth, that depth of motivation in your journey. Right. And, really sense of purpose. And that's a lot of what we do, right? We spend a lot of time talking about purpose and, and especially when we're facing struggles, but not just in the struggles, of course, in the triumphs and, and in every season of life. Because you described, okay, we started in a season of, of, of really just planting and we wanna protect that. And then as we started getting a crop, well then that crop starts to build and develop and you're like, okay, this is good. Now I've got a. Do the next phase, and I've gotta tend the crop and I've got to nurture all of the aspects of everything coming in.

[00:12:37]
 And then sometimes you, maybe you get a little bit bigger crop than you thought you were gonna get, then you have to deal with that. Then you get more proficient at all of the ways that you run your business. Of course, you love spreadsheets. Like I love spreadsheets. You wouldn't tell by by, you know, book, by the cover, but you're a spreadsheet person and that's important because you, you know your numbers. Yeah. You know, the bottom line, you know, money isn't necessary. It's not the root of all evil. People say, oh, money's the root of evil. No, it's not. It's the love of money. It's the rule of all kinds of evil. It just means just don't make it your idol. Right? Don't make chocolate your idol or blueberries or whatever it is, right? Money is a blood flow. Through your business, you don't have any money. You're dead, right? Mm-hmm. When I used to teach business, one of the universities i'd, I'd start a business course with two words, cash and flow. See, these are your two most important words in all business, right? If you don't have it, you don't have a business. Talk a little bit about your tenacity. That's interesting with the financial piece, right? 

[00:13:39] Deborah Razo
I'll. You know, first of all, I just wanna say that my background is, you know, I'm, I'm a first generation American. both of my parents were immigrants and, you know, very much taught, you know, work hard, keep your head down, don't dream big, you know, you know, like things like that. And, and the fact of the matter is that, you know, I am kind of a dreamer and I like to dream big. And I know that at the beginning of my businesses, I really. Understood what it took to do that. And the fact of the matter is it took for me, it took a lot of personal growth and to even think that I could maintain my own businesses and I could up the level of my cash flow, and I had the ability to. Draw more in and get better at it. And it took, it has taken and continues to take teams of people to help me with that. From, you know, looking at the numbers in a different way to understanding the mindset of being able to expand more. Mm-hmm. And, you know, go into projects with more zeros. Right. Because there's shifts that happen in your own personal mindset that allow you.

[00:14:58]
 To grow that way and that don't allow you to grow that way. Yes. And so I had to start to become aware of 'em. I mean, like I started out, you know, you don't, you don't know what you don't know. Mm-hmm. Right. I started out like that, and then as things progressed, I'm like, oh, I don't know anything about this. I better find out about that. You know? And luckily I am a person who. Pursues new learning. 

[00:15:21] Deborah Razo
You know, I, I enjoy that. So it's, it's come in handy when I've wanted to grow my business and, and grow myself because the person I am today, 30 years later, I. Has a whole different tool chest than the person that I was when I started.

[00:15:39] Dr. Nate Salah
Yes. You're, you've talked about this and you, you, you've said a few times during our con short conversation so far, and I, I, I wanna make sure this is picked up by our, our listener. You've talked about just the, the mindset piece, right? Mm-hmm. And the mindset. We can look at it different ways, programming habits. Patterns, right? That's, that's all sort of, that's all in the same realm of mindset. I tend to like to look at it from the perspective of pathways, and so in your mind we have neural pathways and they are widened by activity. In that, in that realm, if you spend a lot of time learning certain math, your neural pathway expands and imagine it like a pathway, a, a, a road, if you will. Well, nothing starts out as a road. Imagine you have a forest. Full of brush and all kinds of things, but you have a pathway that is completely paved. The problem is it doesn't take you to where you want to go, but yet we spend so much time in our lives going down those roads, those pathways, because they're already paved and the problem is, well, but it's not taking you where you want to go.

[00:16:52] 
So the hard work is, you know what I'm, I'm gonna take the pathway that takes me where my vision is leading, even if it's full of thorns and thistles and rocky ground. But the more I walk it, the more. Attainable and easier it is to go down that pathway, and eventually it starts out as perhaps a forest, and it becomes a path, and then it becomes a little wider and a dirt road, and you put rock down, and eventually you pave it. You put concrete and look at that. It's a beautiful super highway. 

[00:17:29] Dr. Nate Salah
And so that's the heavy lifting you're talking about is the mindset shift? 

[00:17:33] Deborah Razo
It is. And I have a few beliefs around this, and I'd love to share them with you. One is that I have a sign-in over my desk that says there are no mistakes. I. Because I think that people get caught up in a head a, about the choices they make and thinking that they're gonna make a mistake in whatever choice they have. And the fact of the matter is going forward is not a mistake. Whatever choice it is, like whatever you encounter, you know, green or blue, I mean, it's, it is literally that, you know as far as the pathways go, when I was a young entrepreneur, it. I've done a lot of coaching and things, it was brought to my attention that I was really looking for a lot more certainty than I thought I was. And, I have a tendency at the beginning of the years to, dedicate a quote to that year and there was a quote that I had dedicated to the year, and it was a quote by Tony Robinson. It was said, the amount of uncomfortable that you can. That you have in your life as in direct relation to the success you'll encounter. Mm-hmm. And by success, he didn't mean monetary success, he meant success in love. Like, we have to be uncomfortable, we have to open our hearts. Right. He, he meant success in all parts of your life. So I decided that that was gonna be my quote for the year. And that if I was faced with a decision of. That I needed to make, I was gonna go with a one that I felt the most uncomfortable with.

[00:19:02]
And man, the personal growth that happened to me that year, it was incredible. It was incredible. I went in directions, in places I didn't know that I, you know, that I could even go. And I, it built my confidence that way. And I, I liked it so much that I, I dedicated the next year, the same quote, you know? And I believe there are paths, but I'm going to put it even in more simple terms. There's fear and there's faith. There's fear, and there's faith, and our, our minds are these. Little reptile things that wanna keep us safe, and they bring up every fear. Thank you. Thank you mind. Thank you. Little mind. I, you know, I love that you bring things to my attention that I might not look at before, but I get to choose one or the other. I get to choose if that's truly something I should be scared about, or if that's just the little mind bringing something to my attention, and that I decide no.

[00:20:00]
 I have faith. It's gonna work out differently and I think that we hide those fears hide from us. You know, ourselves, like, you know, we don't see that fear until it's really brought into our face or that we're looking for it. Why am I stopping here? Why am I making this decision this way? Why am I going down that same path that's leading me to that same result that I don't want? Right? Mm-hmm. Instead of taking a different road, you know what's happening inside of me that is not allowing me to expand or to change, or to say Thank you little mind. I don't have to believe everything you say. 

[00:20:37] Dr. Nate Salah
Yes. Yeah. It's interesting. It brings to mind, the 10th chapter of Matthew, and that's where Jesus is sending out the disciples two by two, very famous story. And in this story, he's, he does something that's quite interesting. He tells them not to take extra stuff. Right. Tells 'em not to over-prepare. Get into, in some ways. I would call it, analysis paralysis, walk in faith. Mm-hmm. And then he goes on to tell him all the things that could happen. They could get to a town, and a town doesn't like 'em. They could get to a house, and they get kicked out. They can be thrown in jail. They could even lose their lives. Then he says this, and he says it three times in this chapter. Why three times? It's so important. Do not be afraid. 'cause he knows. He knows at the very heart of our lack of faith is fear. And he wants to dispel that myth. The fear is a valid reason to not step forward in progress. Of course, another way to say what you had mentioned with Tony Robbins is comfort is the enemy of progress, and so we cannot hope to progress unless there's some level of discomfort, and sometimes discomfort is just taking one step.

[00:22:04] Deborah Razo
Absolutely. Yeah, and I, you know, I think that we all. I think that's a super practical application, biblical, practical application to how we live our lives and how we choose to express our faith in what God has planned for us, even through the hard times. And you know, for me, I. I'm a true disciple, right? Like I'll watch Jesus feed thousands with three fish, and then the next day I'm like, where are you taking us? What are we gonna eat? Right? Like, I don't know, we're, we're imperfectly perfect humans. 

[00:22:40] Dr. Nate Salah
And then, and then we face trials. Yeah. And you faced some trials? Oh yeah. Would you like to talk about some of those trials?

[00:22:49] Deborah Razo
Sure. I guess, you know, I'll talk about a couple of the big milestones. You know, 15 years ago I was, in a really bad car accident and, I, you know, I kind of jokingly say that, you know, I had an opportunity to start over. I think that a lot of people have those types of opportunities like sometimes it's. The death of a loved one. Sometimes it's divorce, you know, loss sorrow for me, it was a car accident. And, the driver of the SUV, we got flat, and the car flipped. It was just so by chance and, it flipped driver's side first. So I got the brunt of the, of the accident, and I was AirVac to a hospital and, and, they had to stitch together my head wound and told me I had a broken neck. And I spent the last, I spent the next year healing it. It took a long time. We had to wait for the swelling to go down before I could even get, I my titanium brace, and then I was nine months in a neck brace, and I had to have people take care of me. And I had, my two kids were now in high school at that point.

[00:24:06]
 And, I had a lot of time to think, and I had, you know, I've been entrepreneur for 30 years, and I had bi, you know, I had a business, but I guess I had the opportunity to ask myself the hard questions that I think sometimes we avoid, which is, do you like the life you're leading? Is this how you wanna lead your life? And I had a business that was great. I don't get me wrong, I didn't have a bad life, but it wasn't the life I wanted. I had a business that was running me that I wasn't running like I was an employee of the business, you know? And I'm like, this isn't how what I signed up for. Right. I wanted, and, I think, I did what any, you know. Typical a type woman would do is I started Googling passive income 'cause I wanted to live differently. And my brother was around me and taking care of me a lot, and he knew I wanted to make those changes in my life. And he was the one that was like, you know if, if you wanna make those changes, you're gonna have to change your mindset.

[00:25:08]
 And that's when I actually started going to Robin's events. He had just been to one, and he said, maybe when you're better you should go. And I did. And the fact of the matter is that. I didn't just need strategies, I needed a new story. Mm-hmm. And I needed to believe that what I dreamt could be my life. I could, that could really make it happen. And that's all about the story that you tell yourself. Right? And so I needed to change that, and that's not as easy as like. You know, changing something mechanical. So that needed some time to set in, but that's when I started being a, becoming a real estate investor. You know, wanting the passive income that it had to provide. And I think when I truly connected with my story and my, my vehicle. That's when I truly found my tribe, and that's when I found the, founded the Women's Real Estate Network and, to help women both grow financially and, you know, I say self-worth and net worth, you know, so it was, the outcome was amazing. The, the process was hard. 

[00:26:16] Dr. Nate Salah
Hard, yeah. What was your faith in, in this journey? Wow, this part of the story. 

[00:26:22] Deborah Razo
I went through, what are those five stages of grief, right? Like my, my life had changed, you know? And I remember, I remember being, and I was a person of faith before the accident. So there was a part of me that was like, why did you let this happen to me? You know, God, like really questioning that. And I remember, um. Somebody who was praying over me was like, read Job, read Job. And I was like, Job was an idiot. I was mad. I was mad. And and the fact of the matter is, I would wake up, with anxiety in the middle of the night. Two or three o'clock with like, just feeling like, an elephant was on my chest, wondering how I was gonna pay for things. Like if I'm not working, I'm not making any money, and, and how is this all gonna work out? And, and it was during that time that instead of like, I. Trying to calm myself in anxiety that I started opening up the Bible and reading. And I still think back to some of those days as being some of the most precious times with God. You know, my communion with God really started to change and therefore did my faith.

[00:27:39]
 And even now when, when I'm worried about something in the middle of the night, I reach for the Bible, you know, because I just feel like, oh God, you're waking up in the middle of the night because. Oh yeah, I didn't give you time today and you just want my attention and, and I wanna be, I wanna be open to that. So I think that's when, you know, I really started taking that into my heart and realizing, you know, that my faith would pull me through and that God didn't, God had something different for me. God had something different planned for me. And, um. I, you know, Nate, this year, this past year has been really hard for me, and I feel like sometimes just, I just, I just had rewritten my story from the accident and, you know, another chapter begins, and that is that, I was diagnosed with an aggressive cervical cancer last year, and, you know. It was a really hard time because I had to do chemo and radiation simultaneously. And, my husband got into a car accident that put him in the hospital in ICU for five days and, um. I had some business assets that I was losing, and the truth is right now, I'm not sure what path you talked about a path.

[00:29:02]
 I'm not sure what path is gonna be in rebuilding from this past year. I just know that I'm not gonna give fear the lead. I'm gonna give faith the lead. Yes. You know, fear is a little tricky little thing. And, I heard a comedian, if you don't mind me saying, I heard a comedian, talk about, fear, and he said, fear is a j*rk. Your brain can be a j*rk. That's what he said. Your brain can be a j*rk. He's like, you know, it's got all the goods to make you feel great. Dopamine, you know, endorphins. It, it can make you feel amazing. Right. But it's like a withholding little troll, you know? And it sits by, and it's like, you know, do you wanna feel really good? And you're like, yeah, I wanna feel good. You know? And he is. And your brain's like, you wanna feel really nice, and you're like, yeah, I wanna feel really nice. And then it's like, go for a jog. And you're like, wait, I'm the commander in chief. I want you to release all this now. And you know, the fact of the matter is that's how we are. You know, I know that even though I, I have all those debates going on in my little, you know, reptile brain that, you know, I'm gonna walk in faith, and even though I don't know where that walk is leading right now. Wow, that was a long answer. 

[00:30:25] Dr. Nate Salah
You, I love it. It's, it's not only touching, but it, it hits home because. You're not gonna meet a, a person who hasn't experienced some kind of trial, and you sharing your trials is not only vulnerable, but it, it reminds us that we're all in a shared, shared experience of life. Yeah. And I think about trials, and I think the whole, you know why God, right. I've experienced some trials, my wife much, much more than me, and, and it was so many years, like, why God? And I turned to the scripture and, and that's the right thing to do. It's been said God's will is in God's word. And the stories, really, the stories to me are the most encouragement pieces because I think about like somebody like Paul, and he experienced tremendous trials, and you'd think, okay, he was given this amazing mission to share the good news with the Gentiles, right? It's a big job. God's gonna. Make his pathway straight, easy paved road, right? All kinds of refreshments along the sides. No problems at all. And it's the opposite. What happens to Paul? He's imprisoned, he's beaten, he's stoned, he's shipwrecked, he's left for dead. I mean, you count just those five things. Most people in life will never experience any one of those.

[00:31:49]
 They experience all five. Why, why, and, and here's how I understand this. God is intimately acquainted with our circumstances. He cares deeply about our circumstances. However, God is in the character-building business, and he's gonna take us through our circumstances to build us into the character of Christ. And I think that's why James opens his book with considerate, pure joy. Who says this, when you face all kinds of trials, who puts the words pure joy and all kinds of trials in the same sentence? Nobody does. But why does James do it? Because he says this. Because your trials will, as you move through them, will build your perseverance. And then character and hope. And what is to say? Hope does not disappoint. 

[00:32:37] Deborah Razo
 It's true. And I think it's. It's really hard when you're going through it, you know? 'cause you do cry out. Mm-hmm. You know, like, why, why? You know, I'm a follower. Why are you, why, why this? You know, really my character needs to be this strong.

[00:32:52] Dr. Nate Salah
Really. I was good with the character before the trial. I really, I was. 

[00:32:58] Deborah Razo
But yeah. You know, but then I look back and I, I mean the car accident was 15 years ago and it. I changed my late my life into a deeper story of faith, and through that faith I was able to reach others and I was able to create something I never thought I'd be able to do. And, and that's all Credit to God. Mm-hmm. Right? Like that's, that's where that goes. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:33:26] Dr. Nate Salah
I'm thrilled that we're along this journey together. I'm thrilled for the time we've had over the years, and especially in this next chapter of the story as we continue to grow together and and share with our, our new. Mission, if you will, with our G three, our Grow, Give, Grow. And listeners have been hearing more and more about that. Yeah. And your involvement has been essential to the community and to sharing the message. And as we move forward, I'd like to close with a question. Eventually, you will be on the this side of the end of this side of the journey, and you'll be looking at the all the wonderful people you were able to impact and the lives you touched. What's one thing that you'll have been blessed to have others have said about you? 

[00:34:21] Deborah Razo
Wow. Wow. Okay. You know, I hope they, I hope they say I was kind, you know, like I think about, you know, the end in mind and of course, you know, I. I don't know. As a Christian, you kind of, you want the, you know, well done, good, and faithful servant. Right. You know, and, and in my interpretation of that means, did you touch people along the way? Did you let them know where your source source of faith came from? Did you know, you know, did you have integrity in your dealings both business and personal? You know, like, were you accountable? Right? And even though I stand to be corrected daily by the Lord, you know, those are the things I shoot for. So I, I hope that they're said and, and I hope they said she lived, she lived life.

[00:35:11]
 You know, she, she believed in that, and that took her in a different direction and it took all of us with her. Right, because I think that they're, I think that's how you pave the way for others, you know, you stand in front of them and go, why don't you do that? Why? Why don't you believe you can and start, you know, speaking blessings over them to do it? You know? So I hope so. 

[00:35:33] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, you are on your way. Thank you for being here. 

[00:35:37] Deborah Razo
Thank you so much. This was fun. 

[00:35:40] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, my friend, we did it. I'm so honored you were able to join me on this episode of A Call to Leadership. Now, this might not be for everyone because you really have to be in a certain place in order to take the kind of steps to level up your leadership, and I want you to be taking steps, and for those of you who feel like you're ready for something like this, there's a place you can go. You can go to our website, greatsummit.com. I'll make sure that's in the show notes. But here's the cool thing that we have. We've got a masterclass. We have all different kinds of events. We even have our leadership club where you can meet other people just like you to go deeper in your leadership journey. You and I'll get to spend some time together and really focus on aiming for greatness. I can't wait to see you there. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, and this is A Call to Leadership.

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