A Call To Leadership

EP280: Blessed are the Poor in Spirit with Joe Thompson and Travis Revelle

• Dr. Nate Salah

Share episode

You were never meant to carry it all alone. In this episode, we explore the power of surrender in business and life, and how letting go becomes the first step to real strength. We discuss the shift from external success to internal joy, and how that transformation impacts leadership, relationships, and decision-making. If you’ve been holding it all together on your own, this conversation will show you a better way forward. Tune in to discover what true resilience really looks like.

Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • Why surrender unlocks your deepest strength and clearest direction
  • The hidden power of humility that builds trust, peace, and lasting joy
  • What happens when you drop the pride and gain real leadership impact
  • How plugging into divine wisdom fuels smarter choices and bold action
  • Why carrying less leads to more clarity, confidence, and calm


Connect With Us
Master your context with real results leadership training!
To learn more, visit our website at www.greatsummit.com.

For tax, bookkeeping, or accounting help, contact Dr. Nate’s team at www.theincometaxcenter.com or send an email to info@theincometaxcenter.com.


Follow Dr. Nate on His Social Media

[00:00:00] Dr. Nate Salah
What Jesus is saying here is like, don't get it twisted. It's not that you are saying, I have been defeated by God. It's saying, God, you're not my enemy. I don't need to have weapons against you because we're in this fight together. Hello my friend, and welcome to this episode of A Call to Leadership. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, your host. I'm so glad you are here. Well, on this episode of the show, we're gonna unpack this idea that there is an opportunity to have joy that transcends all of our circumstances. It's an impossible concept to think of, no matter what happens in life, that you have an indestructible joy. That lives in and through you. Well, we're gonna break it all down. I've invited Joe and Travis back on the show, my dear brothers who are going to share their thoughts on this question. What does it look like when you're poor in spirit? How could that possibly lead to not only greater joy, but a greater sense of strength in leadership? Whether it's in business, whether it's in family, whether it's in life. What's up, fellas? How's it going? Hello. That was my Mickey Mouse voice, mate. Hello, Travis. How are you guys? Good to see you. Good to see you. You guys having a good week so far?

[00:01:32] Travis Revelle
Yeah. Yeah. It's Memorial Day, so my days are completely thrown off. Yeah, I know. Feels like a Tuesday, but it's we when you have Mondays off?

[00:01:40] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, Mondays are. Monday off. Yeah. It's also, I like, I like three-day weekends, but.

[00:01:43] Travis Revelle
I like Fridays off. Yeah. I don't like Mondays off. It completely throws me off. You take every Friday off, right? Or and every Monday as well. Joe's Wow. Joe's on that three 12 schedule. I like that schedule.

[00:02:00] Dr. Nate Salah
I wish I had that schedule three twelves. I don't know where you guys are coming up with this. I work as needed. That's great because you're blessed. Right. You're blessed. You have a life joy. I have a life joy. Yeah. You don't have to work if you don't feel like working. What, where that coming from? Where working? Where's this coming from? I know. Work. Just You're in the middle. 

[00:02:24] Travis Revelle
The middle, the middle child.

[00:02:26] Dr. Nate Salah
Wow. Gen Xer. You're a Gen Xer. Act like it, it's like a Gen Xer. 

[00:02:34] Joe Thompson
What are you, millennial, what is it called? 

[00:02:36] Dr. Nate Salah
Millennial. Yeah. What's it called? I wouldn't even admit to that. What's, what's a millennial again? It's some like, it's 

[00:02:42] Travis Revelle
like, it's a micro-generation from 77 to 83. 'cause we're not as old as you. Gen Xers. Yeah. We're also not raised entirely on the.

[00:02:52] Joe Thompson
They're driven to do something, but too lazy to do it. Alright, we just get to the finish line.

[00:03:00] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, millennial, it's a Gen Xer, and baby boomer. When a baby Oh my dang say it ain't sober. Say it ain't No, I'm not actually, I was born in 1973. Proud of it that your Nixon was impeached. That's nice. Yes. What are you a 70 80? I'm 80. 80. 80. 80. 80. How were the seventies boys? it was Okay. Interesting. It was just Okay. Okay. Yeah. You were born like at the end of disco, like they were burning record. Yeah. I'm a Reagan, Chicago. I'm a Reagan baby, basically. So, so. You know, we, we left off the last episode together. We're talking about, vicarious Blessed, blessed are, and that's a great episode. If you haven't listened to it, definitely check that out. We just spent time unrolling this sort of, Jesus's first major sermon and the very first words he said, just a quick recap or talked about like joy, life, joy.

[00:04:05]
 He started his, his conversations with people. I can imagine the people who were out listening to him were from all areas, right? So some of them might have been farmers, fishermen, and, you know, a lot of people in agriculture and, and parents and. Tax collectors and prostitutes and all these people who were would become his, his disciples, and his followers. You think of all these different vocations people had, and they were in the business world, and they probably didn't think of their business life or their life as a whole as like something that I could just be feeling that I can have joy all the time. Yet he starts with that, and I think he starts with that because, you know, it's like. Guys, truly, truly, life is full of like circumstances that are not joyous. You know, life is full of circumstances that we, that steal and corrupt and quench our joy. So he is, he's starting there with his big sermon and saying, Hey, there's actually a way that you can live with incorruptible joy. And I think that's like a great place to start because you.

[00:05:20]
 I'm sure he had his audience's attention because I'm sure there was a guy or a gal in the, in the field or wherever he was preaching, he was on the Mount Mountain Sermon on the Mount. It was like, okay, I don't know you, right? I'm you. I'm all ears. What's your strategy? Of course, we know Jesus is massively strategic, right? He wouldn't just come out and just say that, and then he goes through eight principles, if you will. That we call to be attitudes, which were, if you will, the beginning of a model for walking in what we use the language precarious and the Greek, which means this life joy that is, that's not dependent on any external circumstances. It's living free from earthly cares and true divine joy. And he lays it out. And so the very first one he lays out. He says Blessed are. He goes, you know, blessed are, blessed are the very first one is blessed are those who are poor in spirit. And it's like, well that doesn't sound like, like a very blessed, like poor in spirit. What does, you know, what does that mean? Think about that. Like if you, when you, when, if you were in his, in his As, as entrepreneurs, you know, first-century entrepreneurs standing next to each other, right? You're like, Hey Joe. Let's go see this dude. I heard, you know, he's got some things to say, and he's been getting, you know, he's been getting some traction, and he might have something for us, for our, you know, what we're doing in business.

[00:06:50]
And the very, the very first principle he lays out, he says, and he looks at you and says, blessed are the poor in spirit. And you look at Joe, and you're, and you, what do you say? What is he talking about?

[00:07:04] Joe Thompson
Thanks. 'cause he opened the door to like a really big insult there. Right. And you, I I, I You went the high road. You went the high road. High road. Appreciate that. 

[00:07:13] Dr. Nate Salah
Wow. And what do you respond to Travis and say, 

[00:07:18] Joe Thompson
This guy's crazy. You know, you don't get anything by being poor in spirit. Right, right. I would've said, what'd you drag me all the way out here for? I got stuff to do, bro. 

[00:07:31] Travis Revelle
I think when you, when you talk about poor in spirit, it's, it's such a wide, you know, kinda wide condition to have, and I think especially in business, right? There's, there's so many ups and downs. And I think that, you know, being blessed or saying that you're blessed, even though you're  poor spirit is super powerful, right? Because it, it's, it's beyond, you know, your kind of, your normal day-to-day. Like, Hey, I'm having a bad day. I am having a good day. Hey, business is great. Hey, business is down. I have all these issues that are going on. but say like, you are blessed, right? Even, and it should be even when your  poor spirit, you know? Right. and to know that, like even at your lowest point when you're having your worst time, that you know, Jesus says, you're blessed at that moment. 

[00:08:19] Dr. Nate Salah
Yes. And, and here's what, before you go, here's what he says. Here's the breakdown of what you're talking about. He, when you're poor in spirit. It doesn't necessarily mean that you are not feeling good, or if you're down and out, it means that you acknowledge a total dependence on God, not on yourself. It's as if you've emptied yourself, right? It's, it's you've emptied of yourself and said, I surrender. I surrender my spirit to you, and that word surrender. Is a very scary word. Scary word for entrepreneurs, titans of industry, right? You say that to your average entrepreneur, Hey man, it's time to surrender. What do you say? No, it's not in my vocabulary. Right? Not in my right, right? There's a nineties term for you. Yeah. Thanks, man. Gold star Joe. For nineties terms, no treat, no retreat, no surrender. So that term in and of itself, even our listeners like, hold, hold on. The problem is we're misunderstanding the term.

[00:09:20]
 The problem is, it doesn't mean that I am capitulating in a way that I've been defeated. It doesn't mean that I'm giving up, right? Because that's not, that's not an option for entrepreneurs and professionals, US leaders, we're we, we don't surrender and defeat. We don't give up. But what Jesus is saying here is like, don't get it twisted. It's not that you are saying, I have been defeated by God. It's saying, God, you're not my enemy. I don't need to have weapons against you because we're in this fight together. 

[00:09:56] Travis Revelle
And that's a paradigm shift to say, you know what, I'm, it's no different than, than, you know, we were talking about this earlier. a lot of businesses have partners, right? And those partners, you know, should. Have their own lanes in the organization. Right? it's no different than you've got A-A-C-P-A that does your taxes for you, right? Like, it, it, it eliminates that from your brain to worry about taxes, right? So when I think about surrendering to God, it's, there are going to be challenges that I am not gonna have an answer to. And I'm going to lay it at his feet and just. Like, just like I know my taxes are gonna get done, I'm gonna know there's gonna be an answer. It may be a day, it may be a week, maybe a month. But I'm going to find that answer. He's going to provide that for me. And by doing that, you release so much tension and stress on yourself that you're able to think a little bit more clearly.

[00:11:05] Joe Thompson
I think this is a call for humility, you know, because you have to humble yourself to ask for help. Right. Mm-hmm. Which is one of the reasons a lot of us, especially in business, don't, we don't do that. You know, we don't want anyone to think we need help. but I think if you humble yourself to know that you need help because you have a spiritual need, right? Knowing you have a spiritual need is the important spirit. So I think, you know, I try to imagine the people sitting there watching him unfold this, unfold this, and like you said, the first thing you hear, what you know. But as it unfolds, like everything we've been noticing, like how be holy unfolds, how be perfect unfolds. Okay. Jesus spoke in great depth about things, right? You know, when people read the Bible, a lot of times they're like, I don't know what it means. I don't know what he's saying, but as it gets unfolded to, to you, like you realize, oh, okay, this, this is a pretty simple message, like empty my glass, humble myself, realize that I need spiritual helping guidance, and for doing that, I win the grand prize. The Kingdom of heaven.

[00:12:34] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a hundred percent. Like that's a, that's a big one. That's a pretty good, pretty good price. Pretty good exchange. Yeah. Yeah. I'd take the deal. Yeah. And so like Jesus is laying out, this is like, okay, this is a starting place for us. Right. We've got eight of these. We're gonna, we're gonna run through, but if we start with this one, start with this one. That it's okay to not carry all the burden. Because that's what we do. Mm-hmm. I know you do it. Mm-hmm. I know you do it. I know I've done it. I know our listener mm-hmm. Has done it. You carry the burden and you think, I have to do this alone. I have to shoulder it. I have to soldier on no matter what, and I can't show the humility or the the, just the letting go where God says, Hey. That's the beginning. That's the beginning of you accepting a real true joy in your life is saying, I'm okay. I'm okay with letting down my guard and having some vulnerability to say I don't have all the answers. And that's okay. 

[00:13:40] Travis Revelle
Well, and especially I think, right, like for men and for entrepreneurs and, and I'm, I'm sure for, for business, you know, women that are in, in business, right? Like I. It's always show strength, right? Don't let anybody see any cracks in your facade. Mm-hmm. Wear the armor. Wear the armor, you know, if you are, if, if it's your business, like you've gotta figure it out. You know, you've gotta wear all the different hats and, and there's part of that that is true. Like you do need to do a lot of that stuff in business. But I think what's interesting is that. You carry that over into your, into your spiritual life and God knows what's going on, like whether you tell him or not, you know what I mean? Like he knows. So it's, it's not like you're hiding it from God. but it's just, I think that admitting it, right, that act of saying, I don't know right. Is the, not the capitulation, like you said, but just the surrender of saying. Lord, I don't know. Yeah. You know, I don't know what to do. Yeah, let's do this together. Let's help me, you know's, do this together. 

[00:14:47] Joe Thompson
You know, you, you, Travis, you bring up a really good point about not showing any kinda, you know, chink in the armor, because that happens because the people around you aren't using this in their life. Right. So they, they, they, they make you, kind of, you know, armor yourself against that poor in spiritness because they're not that way. Right? And they don't understand like, well, you don't have all the answers, like, is this the right fit for you? You know what I mean? 

[00:15:19] Travis Revelle
Or they take advantage of those situations, you know, they take advantage of those weaknesses that they see. Exactly. You know? 

[00:15:25] Joe Thompson
Yeah. I had, I had a business owner just. Just recently tell me like, it's been years of anxiety for her, like years of worry, right? Trying to get a business up and running. It's not an easy thing to do. and when they brought me into their company, I said, here's what I wanna do. I want to, I want to share this burden with you. Right. I want you not to worry anymore. 'Cause I, I, I want to share, I'll, I'll worry for you so you don't have to. Mm-hmm. Because I know it doesn't manifest as worry in me. Mm-hmm. It just manifest as like action. Like what am I going to do? And she texted me and said, you, you can't believe like, how much better I feel not having a shoulder like this burden. Yeah. Like this worry by myself. And it was, you know, it was, I didn't put it in terms of this until like we started talking about it today, but looking back, I'm like, that's exactly what happened. Yeah. You know, she, she kind of was able to empty your cup and say, okay, I need help, you know? Anxiety. Anxiety gone.

[00:16:32] Dr. Nate Salah
This is the key because I think what what's happening here is, is it's laying out a model for relationships, and we naturally are defensive in relationships because, well, there could be casualties, right? We could get hurt. We have been hurt, right? We've been taken advantage of as you've, as you've said, in all different issues that happen, and where Jesus says, look. Let's start with dependence. Let's start with looking at your relationship with God. God is not your adversary. He's your ally. He's not your foe. He's your friend. And so you don't need any weapons. You don't need armor. What you need to do is say, wow, I didn't know that we could walk this journey together. I was trying to do it all on my own, and that sets you up for. It's the human relationships in life sets you up for your partnerships, sets you up for your marriage, sets you up for your relationship with your kids, sets you up with your relationship with your clients and your stakeholders and your vendors, and all these other individuals in your life where we sometimes look at them as adversaries and say, you know what?

[00:17:48]
 Actually, I don't have to. That doesn't mean that we're not smart about setting appropriate boundaries and setting up goals and strategies and whatnot. We're not talking about that. We're simply talking about a shift in how we see others. First God, then people, and that's where strength truly comes in. 'Cause we thought we were strongest when we had the armor on, but it's not true. We're actually strongest when we shed the armor because there is no real threat. 

[00:18:16] Joe Thompson
Makes sense. Yeah. I mean, if you don't look at someone as your enemy, they can't be your enemy. Yeah. You know what I mean? 

[00:18:26] Dr. Nate Salah
Like no one I know. It's like, it's hard because it's like, okay, that's like you gotta process that. You gotta process that. Thank you. Yeah. I'm processing right now, you know? Real-time process. Real-time learned. But like, this is what, and I always wanna go back to this like center of joy, right? The center of joy. 'cause this is what Jesus is like. Okay, let's start here as your foundational piece for that incorruptible joy. Extinguishable Joy, because that's what I want for you because that as we go through this chapter, Matthew, of chapter five, this is the foundation for you excelling in, in all of these domains of life. And of course, we're entrepreneurs, we're business people, right? It's easy to apply to this world. Of course, we'll apply it to family and life as we do on the show, but like starting with business, all right, real application, let's talk it out. Somebody in business has this issue with a relationship, let's call it a partnership, right? Say. I mean, we have partners, we have multiple endeavors and whatnot, so trusting relationships. Give us an example Travis, of, of how this plays out in a partnership environment. 

[00:19:28] Travis Revelle
So, and, and one of my companies, right, there's, there's four partners. Each partner has their, has their own lane, right? and if it comes to, let's say it's finance and it's, it's my partner Ruben. I don't question if he's making a financial decision. Like we will review all financial decisions right at, at intervals within the organization. So there's full transparency. But if there's a, if there's a decision that needs to be made right now on a financial decision, he doesn't need to call me and ask me. What my thoughts are on it. Now, has he done that? Of course, he'll do that, but he doesn't need to do that. Right? Because I trust him to do that. In the same, same regards, mine is operations, and so if there's something that needs to happen from an operational standpoint, I make that decision in the heat of the moment that I think is the best decision for the organization.

[00:20:20]
 And then we roll with it, and now we may discuss it at a later date and say, Hey, we should have done X, Y, and Z. But in, in that, in that scenario, I'm giving up, right? What, what, what happens when I give up? The financial decisions or the, the, the sales decisions that are happening within the organization. It allows my brain to focus solely on the operation. So I'm a hundred percent in my lane focused on what I do. And again, we have different intervals where we will check in with each other to see what's happening and, and is the plan moving forward. But in this regard, right, it is. I don't think about it. Because I don't need to think about it because I trust that my partner, because he's shown over time that he's, he's, he's got that trust. And in the same way, I think that if you want to talk about family life, right? Like from a husband and wife standpoint, I think husband and wives a lot of times become adversarial.

[00:21:19]
Yeah. With issues, right? That that happen. And I think it's important to just check in with your wife every once in a while and be like, Hey, I'm not your adversary. Right. The problem is the problem. We need to be on a team to figure out the, it's a problem versus us, not the two of us versus each other with this problem. And I think that that's a similar way in business, right? You have partners. You utilize this strategy, there's a problem, but you can't have let the problem become between the partners. Where each partner is, is, is, is fighting the problem, right. With each other. It's identify what it is, trust that your partner's doing their role and, and move forward. 

[00:21:59] Dr. Nate Salah
Because you move  from back from dependence to independence, right? Correct. So that's the, that's the the rub, because that's their adversary. It's like, oh, I don't need you anymore. Right? Mm-hmm. No, we're allies. Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:11] Joe Thompson
So real-world stuff, and you know, I'm, I'm discovering this, like right as I'm talking about it. Like I'm, I'm thinking about it. So I can't tell you how many times, like I've sat at a table with partners in a company and, you know, you're trying to like mediate between them because they're adversarial with each other. And I, I've said probably, you know, a hundred times on this show at what kills a business. His ego, and that's kind of where it's stemming from. When you know poor, I'm, I'm politicking, or I'm trying to impose my will or whatever. It's, it's the ego that causes the adversaries. And I spoke earlier about, you know, it really takes humility to be poor and we know ends this right. Concentrate less on our ego and just more on being like humble at the table. And look, I'm, I'm guilty of not being humble at a, at table. We are. Right, right, right. I mean, speak for yourself. Right. That's why I look this way. Right, right. Yeah. Clearly gonna know what I'm talking about. So I've been guilty of that too, which, I've been guilty of a lot of things before the Be Holy Challenge.

[00:23:30]
Right. The Be perfect challenge. Right. I agree. So it's, it's now you have the blessed, it's an orientation. It's Right, right? It's an orientation. So like I'm trying to Yeah. Change to, to, to be like that. And I know there's a lot of people that are listening to me right now going. No, far from it. Right? Not that kind of, I know Joe Thompson, I've worked with him. He's, he's hard. but there has been a change and, and a change in you? A change in myself. And the bee is a process, right? Yeah. 

[00:23:56] Dr. Nate Salah
It's a, it's an orientation, not, not a destination. Yeah. 

[00:23:59] Joe Thompson
And now I see things like much, much clearer and like I recognize the ego and I was like, you know, you need to put away your ego. You need to put away your, but I never said Be humble. Be humble for a minute, or humbled myself enough to lead by example. Like I wasn't a servant leader. I was, I was basically saying, you guys are idiots and you're all fighting over the wrong answer, and that's why I'm here. That was your favorite word, idiot was my favorite word. I have not used that word in a long time. 

[00:24:32] Travis Revelle
Mm-hmm. Well, I think, and that's the, I think you said something key there, right? Like as leaders, right? Like if we want. If we want to see this type of change happen in our organization, in our families, in our friendships, whatever it is, we have to be the first ones to take that step to model what humility looks like, right? And like, so during this Be Holy challenge, like I've had a lot of people that have reached out to me and they're just like, something's different about you. You, you sound different on the podcast, right? Like you're, you're talking a little bit slower. You got a little bit different. Like there's something different. And what it is, is it's me trying, I'm not always successful at it. It's a process, but shedding kind of that, that ego that I have built up over my entire life to make up for what I thought was a lack of certain qualities. I thought I needed to overcompensate for those lack of qualities. And basically what Jesus is saying is you are blessed just the way that you are. Right? Like you, you may feel like you don't have X, Y, or Z, but you have everything you need. I. And I really, again, it's not a, it's not a, oh, I heard it and now light bulb clicks and I'm just changed. Right? But by focusing on that and thinking about that and, and, and using that kind of in my, you know, decision making tree a filter as you, as I call it, you know, in my brain, people start to see the difference.

[00:26:10]
 And then they want to know like, what, what's happening? What's happening, right? And then so you're modeling that and I think that Jesus. Was a lot of things, but I think that the one thing that we don't talk enough about is Jesus as a leader and, and the, the, the leadership qualities that we talk about in 2025 that he was demonstrating in 30 BC or 30 ad, you know what I mean? Right. Like he was, he was demonstrating all of these things. That's how he got tax collectors and prostitutes and fishermen and all these different people that if you were building a team or an organization, most people build organizations that reflect them in some way. Yeah. Right. Like they look a lot like them. Right. And a big, a big topic that was a few years ago, you know, is, it's different now, but DEI, right? Like everybody wanted DEI. Jesus had DEI, you know what I mean? Like I mean, he was very diverse, right? Right. Like he was very inclusive. Inclusive, yeah. He was picking people who nobody else would've ever picked from a religious standpoint, from that timeframe, and he got them to work together as a team to literally change the world.

[00:27:23] Dr. Nate Salah
Mic drop, right? I mean, like literally mic drop. And what's interesting about that is like he addressed it from a, from commerce, from industry, from life situations, from agriculture, right? People don't like if you extract and like, because we just tend to look at Jesus like he was a. Religious leader, preacher, and a preacher, right? But the reality is, is that one of the first things he did to like get attention was he told Peter, who was, you know, who was a, a fisherman, Hey, you can catch more fish over there, right? Catch your net over there. And he is like, boom. Guess what? He's, guess what Peter sees, right? Dollars, right? Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I mean, obviously not dollars, but yeah. Shekels or whatever they denari. So he paid off his tax debt, no doubt. Right? The point, the point is, is like we forget that like Jesus leads in with like, let me speak to you where you are. Let me from, from, from Peter's perspective, it was, you know, financial. Mm-hmm. Right? He is like, okay, well, you know, I catch more fish. That means I, I make more cash. I mean, it's just a, it's a simple construct, right? So he's. People don't realize how entrepreneur focused Jesus was. 

[00:28:34] Travis Revelle
He identified it with each individual follower, right? Like, what is their per, what is their, we always call it what's the why, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Why are, why are you in business, right? Like, what is your why? Why are, why are you here? Why are you in this company? What, and it's a great question. We always ask new hires, why do you want this job? he, he did that. Right. Like he didn't go to leadership seminars and he didn't go, you know, he didn't read leadership books and, and Right. He listen to Tony Robbin, he's like, John Maxwell, I gotta go to John Maxwell. Right. John Maxwell. Yeah. He didn't have all that. Right. Like, he just, he just embodied that because as the son of God, he obviously right, like, has an inside look into human psychology. But that's the way that you move people. Right. Like that's how you move people, not just to get a job done, but to literally believe in you as the leader to ultimately die for you at some point. Right? They believe so much in the, in the vision and the mission that Jesus had. I. Like we would all want employees who believed in the vision and mission of the organization that they would do anything you, you ask them to do. Right. As long it was in the betterment of the organization. Yeah. And he, he showed all of these traits and there's so many different podcasts that we can have on just each individual trait that he emulated. It's amazing. And he starts there. 

[00:29:51] Dr. Nate Salah
He starts with this idea of dependence on God as a beginning of your life, joy that's not dependent on external circumstances. And I got a feeling that. You know, history shows that he likely would've known Peter before that, right? He didn't just like meet him one day, and I got a feeling he probably saw Peter have good days and bad days. Some nights, I say days, but they caught fish usually that night. And some nights it was empty. Empty nets all night, right? With nothing. Well, guess what? Eh, I gotta go home to this, right? I gotta tell my spouse he was married. I gotta tell my wife, you know, I'm not sure what we're gonna do today. Right. And observing all that, like you said, right. He knew the human heart and observing all that, it's like, you know, yeah, you feel good, you have joy when you catch more fish, but I'm gonna teach you a way to have joy no matter if you catch one fish or a thousand.

[00:30:43] Joe Thompson
Yeah. So I'd like to funnel down on this a little bit. We kind of started out that way, right? We used to podcast about business and we helped people move towards a success. You know, you get their attention with a, with a big net of fish, you get his attention. And that helped us transition into like what the real rewards are. You know what I. So there is a, there is a situation out there where you are rewarded for behavior that is not humble or poor in spirit, but all of the rewards you get, all the blessings that you get are external. Mm-hmm. Right. And like you said, we're trying to find that internal. Joy and it has nothing to do with all the power moves and all the, negotiating and how much of whatever you have. The power move is really, to find the humility again, and you're rewarded in, in a way that is very hard from the outside to, to see that person feels blessed. Like they're not tearing it up, they're not doing great. Like how do they feel Blessed. As you start the journey, like as you start to listen and follow the steps, starting with be holy and, you know, all the, the next eight episode or seven episodes we're gonna go through, you really do start to recognize, those internal joys, right? But impossible to explain to somebody. You know what I mean? It's impossible to explain to somebody. I'm telling you, you can have more with, with less. Mm-hmm. Right? Or you, you could have a ton of external blessings and still receive internal joy. Right. Win-win. 

[00:32:36] Dr. Nate Salah
You could, it's just not dependent upon it. Right. And I think that's a snare for us, especially as leaders and as as business leaders, as entrepreneurs, because hey. Great. I got this huge contract, or we did this X, Y, and Z. Okay, I'm gonna go buy myself this toy, or I'll go do this, or I'll have some more cash for whatever. And there's certainly like a, an endorphin bump or, you know, dopamine hit that happens.

[00:32:59] Joe Thompson
It's just, you know, and I'm always driving other people's success too. That too, they don't bring me on to make 'em internally blessed.

[00:33:04] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. You sign on my, you sign my consultant agreement like. So your agreement is that I'll feel better about not making money. 

[00:33:15] Joe Thompson
I'm telling you could be whole right now, even though this is in the dumpster. Yeah. No one would sign the contract. 

[00:33:21] Dr. Nate Salah
No, but that is the contract. That's the contract thesis is saying, Hey look, you know what? We're gonna start there. Hey look. And the reason is. Is because I want you to be fortified. I want you to be fortified as a leader, and that fortification doesn't come from you having this emotional rollercoaster that keeps you from being effective because nobody wants to follow a leader who's like, you know, I'm not having a great day, so I'm gonna check out today. I'm really not feeling like getting to the finish line today because X, y, and Z happened. My kids did this, or my spouse did that, or my car did this, or I didn't my, you know, whatever. You don't want that. You're, or you're exhausted. 

[00:34:04] Joe Thompson
Yeah. But you still bring the children onto you when you tired. nice. You like that? See what I did there? I saw it. Okay. 

[00:34:12] Dr. Nate Salah
Who's the leader you wanna follow? It's a leader that has the internal strength and fortitude. That no matter what happens outside of that, that internally they are secure enough to keep the mission focused no matter what, and take it step by step by step. That's and that's what Jesus is saying. The basis, the foundation of that is depend on God, not your enemy because crap's gonna happen left, right, turn this that right. Make that your foundation. It's like, God, we're doing this together. We're doing this together. I'm gonna count on walking with you in your presence in my business world and my family world, and my friendship world, and all of my domains, and that is going to make sure that no matter what storms come, that the light of my joy cannot be extinguished.

[00:35:08] Joe Thompson
Next time somebody tells me they bought a new Ferrari, mm-hmm. I'm gonna say, well. I've inherited the Kingdom of Heaven, right? 

[00:35:18] Dr. Nate Salah
They'll give you the keys and say, Hey, but truth is, which one's worth more? I don't even know if I should go here, but truth is, truth is that car, well, it's a Ferrari or whatever, you know? It's cool and it feels great. For a little while. Yeah. Then it's just your car. It's Yeah, it's just your car. And I know someone listening's like Nate, right? I love my car. I love my car. Or we love cars too, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or it's like, Nate, I've never had a car like that, and you have no idea how much joy it's gonna be for me to be in that car. I get it. But I can tell you from experience that it's not the car. The car is not gonna be your everlasting sense of centrality with your joy factor. 

[00:36:08] Travis Revelle
It's just not, or just imagine the feeling of getting into your Ferrari for the first time, but you have that every single day. Yeah. Without the Ferrari, right? Like you just have that like, I think that's like painting the picture for people, right? Like everybody loves getting something new. That feeling that you have, but we also, everybody knows, right? Like you buy something, it's cool for a little bit and then it just becomes whatever, right? but the, the goal is how do you have that feeling without needing something externally to provide it for you? Yeah. How can you encapsulate that feeling in a bad day? 

[00:36:44] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. That's the strength. That's the strength. That's true Strength to me, that's true. Strength is that no matter what the day holds. I've got it. Mm-hmm. I've got it. And not only, and not just for me, like you talked about modeling. 'cause other people around us, they need to see that because nothing will stifle progress faster than someone who burns out someone who says it's not possible. Someone who's like, I'm just so exhausted that I just can't go forward. Right. We have to grapple with that and say, okay, well this is the starting place. This is the starting place that Jesus says, and, and I'm, I'm down for that. I'm down for that. And what does it look like? It looks like not surrender in that I am giving up and I'm admitting defeat. No, it's surrender that, Hey, you know what? I don't need this armor to war against God or really anyone else on the team. Right. We're allies, we're not adversaries. And that's a release from my shoulders and my burdens. Does that mean that everything is gonna go right all the time? Absolutely not. 

[00:37:54] Travis Revelle
Come on. No, it's not going to, but it's not going to no matter what. Right? There's no way that it ever goes. Right All the time. So we have to just accept that this is at least a way of balancing internally your emotions to say it will be okay. It doesn't mean that it's going to be fabulous, it just means it will be okay and you will get through this and you have the ability to overcome this.

[00:38:23] Joe Thompson
Yeah. The, the, the balance of everything is fine to, Hey, there's a problem I. Problems greatly outweigh, you know, everything's running fine because every, with every success, you open up a whole new, the whole new level of opportunity for more problems, right?

[00:38:39] Travis Revelle
But looks, that's how we like, that's how we grow, right? Like if you want to grow muscle. You have to put it under pressure. Mm-hmm. Right? You have to have constant tension against it. If you want to grow spiritually, you're going to be tested by external factors, right? If you want to have a strong business, you're gonna have to overcome a lot of obstacles to get there, and you're never gonna, you're never gonna reach a point in a business that you're like, I am now problem free. Right. 

[00:39:10] Dr. Nate Salah
It's never, it's ne only, there's only one point is when you're no longer in the business, when, when.

[00:39:15] Travis Revelle
When you sell that business and you're walking away, but now you have other problems, there's always problems that are gonna occur. 

[00:39:21] Joe Thompson
So here's, here's a, here's a challenge. I wanna, I want to ask you, and I wanna know, like your response to this. If someone was listening to this and they were like, well, Nate, you know Travis Joe, that's really easy for you guys to talk about. You found success. You're not worried about your next meal or what car you're gonna buy or not having a roof over your head. It's real easy for you to focus on these things. How do you respond? 

[00:39:49] Dr. Nate Salah
Dang. He just calls brother out. Right? This is, by the way, this entire show is not rehearsed. Mm-hmm. Just so, oh, this is completely unscripted. Yeah. This entire show is not scripted. so that's a great question and I dunno about you guys, but I have been there. I've been there. Well, we've all been there. Okay. I'm gonna tell you how I, how I was when I was there and how I would, how I would react today. Okay? So when I was there, I had massive worry. I had ma in fact, I had, I was ulcerating to the point to where I had to get medication because, you know, when you have an ulcer right, it gets pretty bad. And so I had in copious amounts of stress about my situations. It never made my situation any easier to move forward in. All it did was worsened my decision-making processes. So let's talk about practically when I live in fear and worry, it only stifles my reasoning and rational thought to begin to work through my problems. And I think that's part of what Jesus is saying here.

[00:40:59] 
He talks a lot about worry. He talks a lot about stress. He talks a lot about all that, and he says, look guys, none of that is gonna help you overcome your obstacles. None of that's gonna help you move forward. What's going to help you is if we start with a place that says, you know what? I'm gonna release it to God. I'm gonna make decisions that are wise and wise. Counsel, by the way. The surrender piece. When we start with God, it also surrenders decision-making to other people because it's God and man, right? So what are we saying? We're saying, Hey, you know what? Maybe I just need to ask for some advice. I don't have enough money to eat. I don't have enough money for the roof. I don't have a, I don't have a job. Well, you know what? Reach out to someone. Mm-hmm. Reach out to someone who has that, who will give you sound wisdom. And you can release. That's part of the surrender. That's part of dependence because we don't, we were not made to do this walk alone.

[00:41:58]
 So many scriptures, a quarter of three strands is not easily broken. Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am also, and so on and so forth. Humanity, we were meant to be in community. That's why we got G3. That's why our community has been built for this particular thing because not everybody's in the same place in our community. Some people are struggling in different ways than others. And so that dependence comes in to say, look, I know you're in a spot I have, and that's, we're gonna talk about this next week. A little teaser, right? Blessed are those who mourn, right? We want to have empathy and listening and healing for those who we walk with, because someone listening is like, you're right. I don't start with a prayer of dependence on. Who can help you even in the most minor step? Contact us, create summit.com. Click the button to ask for a prayer request to ask for a, a word of advice. We will respond and help you along your way. Very good. That's good answer. I got the good answer from Joe.

[00:43:05] 
That's why, that's why he's got the PhD, that's why he is got the PhD play a hate and degree fellas. we went deep. This is good. We'll do it next time. Again, if you're listening and you've listened all the way through, which I would, I would think that you have, just know that we, we don't know who you are always. We do know some of our listeners, but at the same time, we can't see you. We can't hear you, but we are with you. 

[00:43:35] Joe Thompson
And we want to know you. Yeah. And we have means to get to know you. Yeah. So yeah, we're moving forward with that. 

[00:43:43] Dr. Nate Salah
It's good having you. Thanks for being here. Great being here. Thank you. Well, my friend, we did it again. I'm so glad you joined me on this episode of A Call to Leadership. If you've been with me on the show listening in, you'll know this. But if you're new, you may not know that I created a free course for you that you don't. Need to provide an email address. You don't need to go anywhere. But to stay right here in the podcast, I created the very first six episodes of the podcast because I wanted you to have the kind of value that you need to take advantage of to thrive as a leader. So if you haven't done that yet, listen to episodes one through six. I'll see you on the next episode. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, and this is A Call to Leadership.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Dr. Nate Salah

Host