A Call To Leadership

EP281: Does God Work? with Josiah Serra

• Dr. Nate Salah

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Success without purpose will still leave you empty. In this deeply personal episode, we explore how surrendering to Christ unlocks real strength, healing, and identity. Pastor Josiah Serra joins us to share his powerful journey from addiction and loneliness to lasting joy and freedom through faith. If you’ve ever felt like something is still missing, this conversation will open a new path forward.

Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • Why “follow me” was Jesus’ invitation, not a demand to figure it all out
  • Why surrender is not weakness but the beginning of strength
  • The radical difference between plugging into the Source vs. relying on resources
  • Why success without spiritual fulfillment leaves us incomplete
  • How to begin again when your previous story ends in pain or loss

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

About Josiah Serra
Josiah is a pastor at Crosspoint Church in St. Louis with a powerful story of redemption. After overcoming a serious drug addiction in his early twenties, he now helps others experience real transformation through faith. His ministry is grounded in the belief that Jesus meets us where we are and invites us into a new way of living. With honesty and heart, Josiah challenges cultural norms and shows how the gospel brings lasting purpose and hope.
 

 Connect with Josiah

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[00:00:00] Josiah Serra
Jesus says, if you take me into your life, you will never thirst again. When you hear it, if you're not thirsty, that sounds like more Bible stuff. But if you know about a deep-down thirst in your life and you hear this person saying, I know who you are, and if you come to me, you'll never thirst again. That can be a life changer. 

[00:00:20] Dr. Nate Salah
Hello, my friend, and welcome to this episode of A Call to Leadership. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, your host. I'm so glad you're here. On this episode of the show, we're gonna dive into a very deep topic. A theological one, A philosophical one, one that many, many people ask. And sometimes the answers are fleeting. The question is, does God work? Does God work? In other words, does following God work for us? And the other side of it is, does God work in the world? Man, what a topic. I've invited Josiah Sarah, pastor at Crosspoint Church, and a dear friend, long-time colleague and deep, deep thinker tells it like it is, and I am thrilled for you to join us. Can't wait for you to listen in. This is A Call to Leadership brother, Josiah. Hey, what's up Nate? What's up man? Thanks for being here. Trust me. My pleasure. Really appreciate you having me. I appreciate you, appreciate all of your, the work you do in the ministry as well as outside of the ministry. And of course, ministry is not like between four walls.

[00:01:27] Josiah Serra
Right. Well, that's what I've heard from your podcast and I like that. It really made me interested and you're right, but I love my church, Crosspoint Church off of Butler Hill. That's right. One of the pastors up there, and it's a privilege. 

[00:01:38] Dr. Nate Salah
Indeed. Yeah. And you and I, that's where we met. 

[00:01:41] Josiah Serra
That's right.

[00:01:41] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:01:42] Josiah Serra
We had you in, we, we took all the rough edges off and sent you out. Now. Now look at you. 

[00:01:46] Dr. Nate Salah
That's right, that's right, man. I always say church is not the new car lot. It's the, it's the service center, right? Yeah, that's right. Hey, I like that. 

[00:01:54] Josiah Serra
Yeah. If you, if that turns up in one of my sermons, it just, credit. Yeah. Don't say anything. Credit, credit your source, right?

[00:02:00] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. That's not me. For sure. I love it. Thanks man, and thanks for listening to the show. I think you had mentioned you listened to one of our more recent episodes, the Be Holy Episode. 

[00:02:09] Josiah Serra
Yeah. That Well, no, what it means to be blessed. I'm sorry. That's right. Yep. What it means to be blessed and I thought I loved you guys'. Take on it man. You got me excited to be honest with you. 'cause I like that it, I like how you were in interpreting it. For people's real lives. There was some real challenge I was hearing, 'cause the three guys that were on there, you and your two friends mm-hmm. Heavily involved in business, but talking about your real life, but as it might manifest itself in your work, just thought that was powerful and important. So that, and then challenging, an American idea that we, that feels like it needs no defense. Right. Feels like that doesn't mean to be blessed in America. Dude, come on. This isn't kindergarten. I mean, you know what it is, but you guys took it right on and I liked it.

[00:02:46] Dr. Nate Salah
Hey man, that's great to hear, especially from a member of the pastoral team. We, you know, we approach it from a, as you, as you would say, a lay or non, you know, non clergy if you will. Yeah. perspective three guys who are heavily into business, desire deeply to walk with God. Yeah. And want to unpack the. Depth of the scripture. Yeah. In its original intent, original context with its original veracity. Yes. There's a place for that. 

[00:03:18] Josiah Serra
Absolutely, man. And you guys are taking your context. As something sacred, meaning like where you were born, what you were gifted to do. So we know from Acts God picked the exact time and places that people would be born so that they would search for him and perhaps find him. So it's not an accident what you've been gifted for, where the road of life is taking you, especially 'cause you invited Christ to be in charge of your life and this is where you've ended up. So that doesn't, we don't get to blame all our mistakes on him, but I'm so glad you guys weren't giving your sacred perspective back. Hmm. 'cause this, you ended up in business to help people and to serve in a certain way. So instead of apologizing for that or getting rid of it, to see you guys leveraging it, being honest about it, it's pitfalls and challenges. And let's see, is the gospel is, is God equal to the challenges and pitfalls of business? Or can you guys show, the gospel through your work? I, that's the sacred thing. I'm glad you guys aren't, abandoning your context. I, I hope you won't do that. 

[00:04:15] Dr. Nate Salah
Thank you. thanks for the encouragement. In fact, I was in a. Meeting with, one of our members of our, our G three group, our our Grow Give Go community that we've been working on launching. And I wrote a note down because we were in conversation and this came to my mind, this question, three words, profound, does God work? And there's several different ways to, I love look at that, right? Yes. Does God work? In other words, does God's model? Work and does God work? Action does God work in and through us?

[00:04:50] Josiah Serra
I love it, man. Because, the Bible makes big claims. And, and if we want to zero in, as you guys did, sermon on the Mount in your episode. So if we zero in on God in Jesus Christ, which is a good place to look since, Jesus said, if you see me, you see the Father. That's right. And, his Jesus' whole message was he can show us who the Father is and what a truly well-lived life is. So if it doesn't work, then the claims that Jesus has made for himself by his own claims, we could set it aside. If we find big pockets of the universe or life experience where what Jesus says doesn't really matter, we could set it aside. But what has been true for thousands of years now is every time Jesus's words are heard, really heard, and not dismissed or made religious, when his words are heard, bombs go off. Things happen. People change. People get angry. Some people get saved, but I'll tell you what, not. Nothing doesn't happen. You know what I mean? Now things are not left the way they were if Christ is heard the way that he works. So I love that man, that your take on that I think is really gonna go places.

[00:05:53] Dr. Nate Salah
That sounds good. Yeah, man, I appreciate that. Yeah. So this, this, this model like does do Jesus' words, do they, do they have impact and the kind of impact that's worthwhile, attractive and achievable? Yeah. Really, you know, that's, that's the impact you want. Yeah. Right. And I found this sounds, this may sound like. Out there off the wall, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it as a person who's been in the entrepreneurial space for over three decades in terms of even owning my own company, even before that. Right. So call it, you know, call it cradle entrepreneurship. Yeah. Even from when I was a child, my parents, everyone had a business. So I was always involved in a pet shop or a beauty supply store or a grocery store or something. Yeah. Ever since I was a little wee baby. And then, so I spent all that time in entrepreneurship. And then academia. And so I spent all this time in business school, right? Yeah. Undergraduate, MBA, PhD, all that.

[00:06:48]
 And I spent all this time invested. And that's a great investment, both sides of it. And through all that, just imagine the copious amounts of books and articles and experiences over all the years. Yes, and here's what I've reconciled that when I mirror it against everything that Jesus says about life, whether it comes to. My spiritual health. Mm-hmm. My mental, emotional health, my physical health, my financial health in all of my relationships, my key relationships in life, relationship with God, with my family. Yeah, with my community, with my vocation, my business, all of that. There's massive application that is transformative. Yes. And everything he says, I can apply it. Utilize it. You think a lot of people think Jesus is some kind of itinerant preacher Yeah. Religious figure. Yeah. 

[00:07:43] Dr. Nate Salah
But look at all of the, the language and the examples that he uses. He uses commerce. Yes. He uses family life. He uses agriculture, he uses spiritual ideas. He uses community, family, all of these different domains. He's, he, it's, it's such a well-rounded approach. Oh yeah. 46 parables and all of these stories. And then of course, everything that he's sharing that's not even a parable base. And it all centers around the human condition. 

[00:08:13] Josiah Serra
Yes. Life itself. Yeah. Never anything else. Never any sidetrack. No fluff, no religious stuff that's kind of left humanity out. It was always, he talked to the heart of the matter and his words are the easiest, in my opinion. In the Bible. You can take Jesus's words. Ask it in almost any context and you have a conversation going, if a person's willing to be honest with you, you can't just walk away. You have to argue, you have to refuse or you can agree, but you can't just say, dude, I've heard that stuff before and, and I'm good on that. He also addresses powerful things. I was thinking when you were talking about how involved in business you've been, so I've never started a business in my life, and if I came up to y'all eager and said, Hey Nate, I'm gonna start a little business. I. Imagine the files that would open in your brain like and am I called down to? Sure you are. You know, like the, and I think we need to see Jesus that way. You can. Jesus is talking to each person that's made in the image of God and he is saying, so you wanna live a life. And he's got that knowledge in his head. He's been involved with life. He is the Lord of life. So in the same way that I would need, I'd say, Nate, I'm gonna start a business, but obviously I don't know what I'm doing. Can you please help me? That's not a bad way to approach Jesus. No. I wanna live a life and I don't know what I'm doing. Please help me. Is a is a good start with Christ? He he'll, he will meet you there. 

[00:09:35] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, because the first people he called were business people. Mm-hmm. Right. He called. Fishermen. They were actually, Hey, they were entrepreneurs. They were e even one tax collector, apparently even a tax collector. Holy, pretty popular tax collector. Right? Old, old school tax collector. Yeah. Named Matthew. And I truly believe this may even be the title of our. Episode does God work? He, he addresses that fundamental question with these individuals Yes. Early on. And he approaches them at the individual level. Yeah. And because people, we all ask that question, it's a fundamental question of life. And so he, he meets that question head on because sometimes. You know this Messiah, you've been in ministry a long time. People say the answer to that in their own mar hearts and minds and how they feel in the moment or their, their own experiences is no. Yeah, definitively. And in that time, in that moment, in that Jewish culture, in that society, even those who were cradle Jews and Hebrews, and they, they knew the scriptures. Yeah. Because they were taught it from, from a very young age. They still were like. I'm not quite sure. And he steps on the scene to answer that fundamental question. 

[00:10:49] Josiah Serra
Yeah. And, and entered into their life. So I love what Jesus has said to, to those original followers was, follow me. I love that. The open end. He treated life with the respect that it needs and deserves. Jesus did. There's no, you won't find pat answers from Jesus. Too often Christianity, evangelical Christianity. This is, I'm speaking in my opinion now from being in the evangelical church my whole life. I'm 43 now. Too many pat answers, too many booklets handed out, where apparently Jesus didn't get the memo on you. She should hand out booklets and 'cause for him. He said, follow me and you're going to see taste and experience something, that will change your life. You know, you're gonna see the real things of life dealt with in a way that's gonna make a new person. That has been my experience with Jesus. You know, I was raised in it church.

[00:11:42]
 My mom, real Christian, living in a tough, experience. Her husband, my dad, had mental illness dealt with, not a lot of money. Dealt with just a lot of things, hard things in life growing up in a rural ish part of Missouri. and just everything that comes along with that. But I saw my mom. Her trust in God gave her a power in the face of things like a lack of money, a tough marriage, loneliness, a church that ultimately fell apart because of God. She had a power to face those things, rely on hi not only his words, but his presence so that her life was held intact. Her joy and peace though they were challenged and taken into valleys on occasion. Survived. So the day that she passed away at 60 years old from cancer, saying the whole time Christ had been her strength, her peace, and the one who had led her through this life, in my own teenage, angry male teenage way of dealing with broken home issues, got myself into a serious drug addiction by the time I was 17 years old, pretty much full-time methamphetamine addict by the time I was 18.

[00:12:55]
 This was my power that I tried to face. Same, a lot of same issues that my mom had encountered, and they, and it failed me. it, it gave me temporary escape, but then ultimately made every problem I had worse. It would promise me everything, take everything away from me and ultimately lead nothing. I. So when I was finally spun out and tired of that, at 21, I come back to the same Jesus my mom had been talking about and say, if you can help me, like you help my mom, I need you in my life. I don't know what I'm doing. From that day, he came into my life and brought people, places and things into my life that changed the fundamental way I live my life, not pat answers or religious stuff. That has sent me on that path of trying to serve him, which would be, I think he would say to me, and he has said to me, go back and show your brothers, your other friends who were involved in this lifestyle. I want you to demonstrate in their life what I've done in your life. And that's what changes people, at least in my corner. So yes, it's business, it's whatever sacred. Corner of the universe that God has put you in your experiences, in your life experience when you ask him for help. Boy, you asked for a lot more than you knew at the time.

[00:14:12] Dr. Nate Salah
You sure do. Thank you for that transparency and sharing. You mentioned the word fundamental, fundamentally altering. And I think of that this sacred gift, of, of follow me. I love that. I love, I love. That start to the conversation. He's not saying, Hey, I need you to have all of this understood, or You need to read these books first, or you need to go do X, Y, and Z first. He's like, no, let's, let's hang. Amen. Let's, let's, let's journey, and along the journey I'm going to uncover something to you first and foremost that. Fundamentally alters how you've understood this construct, this concept, which is the bedrock of human existence and its love. Yeah. And his model of love, which I love to call radical love. And the reason why it's radical love, because the word radical is defined as something that fundamentally alters or changes the understanding of. Yeah. So he fundamentally changed the understanding of how we view love, and we can go on and on about that. Yeah. However, I wanna just take a step back because we often fall into addiction or a different pathway because, man, you know what, I can't really figure this out on my own. And that's right. And I just, I just, I need a fix.

[00:15:39] Josiah Serra
That's right. Do you remember TV? so growing up there was a commercial it, this was probably been on channel nine when I was growing up. So then it was like a public access kind of service commercial that somebody had put together, and it has this sweaty kind of teenager run by and slow mo. Then there's a sweaty police officer runs behind him with the arm outstretch because he's trying to catch the guy in the background. This real kind of powerful voice says. Nobody ever says, I want to be a junkie when I grow up. That's what it said. And then it was like trying to help you understand that though, that's where you end up. You typically were trying to solve some sort of problem or stand up to some kind of power in your life that all your other attempts to get away from it had not work. Now of course, that's not the only way into addiction, but it's a powerful and the main one. And for me, I could, you know, there's a lot, but maybe, for the sake of clarity, we could just focus on one.

[00:16:35]
 So, when loneliness became a big part of my life, try to, can I make friends? Don't feel successful at that. why don't people like me? Oh, there's all these cultural, economic things going on. There's my own issues. There's mental illness dealing with, so try everything I kind of know how to do until I finally hear I people witness to me. I love how you people think you can only witness about your Christian faith. It's not true. Whenever we tell about our favorite restaurant, our favorite music, our favorite movie, we're witnessing. Well, I was witnessed to many times in in high school about drugs. People were saying basically, Hey, I've been in a similar place as you. This helped, you know, when I use this chemical, it gets inside my brain and I don't feel that loneliness. This helped me. So take their advice, go down that road. Experience. Basically what they told me, it shielded me from feelings of loneliness for a while. It also gave me a pseudo personality, so I didn't have to deal with shortcomings. I didn't have to grow in character. I didn't have to be there for people. This chemical makes me feel like I like you for a while, and I can live with that until. Loneliness comes back around 'cause it's a major power in life, and you're not gonna defeat it with a lesser power like narcotics. I mean, so it comes back around.

[00:17:56] 
I find now the narcotics are not working like they used to. I'm starting to realize that the people who are supposed to be my friends really aren't if narcotics are absent. So once I realized that whole thing, what do you think came back to get me loneliness? He says, brother, I told you I'll always be here for you. You are not getting away from me. I'm more powerful than you are. That power needed to be. Faced with a greater or equal power in my life where I was never gonna escape from it. Loneliness is an epidemic in our culture. there are serious people with serious money who are willing to spend it, to find some way to deal with it as a public health crisis, all of them are washing up on the shore, having been defeated by the awesome power of loneliness. Mm-hmm. Now if Christ says, if you come to me, you'll find out that I'm lowly in heart, that I am humble, that I love you, and that my burden is easy, my weight is light, and I will you come to me and I will be with you forever, and I will never leave. You forsake you. I'm listening, right? And so when I say, okay, man, I need you.

[00:19:00]
 And he comes into my life and he has repeatedly defeated the power of loneliness in my life because I know he is there for me. He has led me into the lives of other people who are my friends and my brothers and sisters, whether there's narcotics, money or whatever present. They're there fine with, they're not. They're fine. The link that we have in Christ is still there because he's more powerful than loneliness. So that's just one small example of how Christ made these claims. He's claiming to go be willing to go up against powerful forces in our culture that, all other solutions seem to have failed. As of right now, as we're talking in 21st-century America here, 

[00:19:39] Dr. Nate Salah
I was talking about source, one of the episode plugging into the source as opposed to a resource. Yeah. And resources can be helpful. They can be harmful, but they're not the source. Yeah. They're ne they never are. So, and the thing about sources versus resources is if your resources cut off Yes. Then you go back to having that, that deficiency. Yes. If you're plugged into the source and you stay plugged into the source. Then you'll always have the source of strength of hope. Yes. Character, perseverance of you talked about it earlier. Joy. That is incorruptible. 

[00:20:31] Josiah Serra
Yeah. That's a different kind of energy. 

[00:20:31] Dr. Nate Salah
Way different. 

[00:20:32] Josiah Serra
And Jesus knows that has to explain, you know, one of our favorite stories, the lady at the Well. The woman at the Well. It's a shorthand for this encounter that Jesus had with a lady that. Was not popular with the village she lived in 'cause of her personal choices. And so she had to come draw water at a time when she wouldn't be around the gossiping neighbors that had reason to not like her. It's apparently maybe a, maybe a husband stealer, maybe that kind of a person. So Jesus was there to encounter on purpose and says, you should ask me for a drink because if you take me into your life, you will never thirst again. It's the type of thing that when you hear it, if you're not thirsty, if you don't care really what Jesus is talking about right now, you feel good. Just say that sounds like more Bible stuff. But if you know about a deep-down thirst in your life and you hear this person saying, I know who you are, and if you come to me, you'll never thirst again, that that can be a life changer. That's why Jesus frequently said, I'm talking to people who have ears to hear. There's times when I heard Jesus. I grew up hearing Jesus say that, but I wasn't thirsty yet.

[00:21:30] Dr. Nate Salah
It's good. Yeah. So when you were 21, you got thirsty. I had been, what do you call it? 

[00:21:36] Josiah Serra
Dehydrated de That doesn't sound good enough. Scared. 

[00:21:37] Dr. Nate Salah
You're like going through the desert. It doesn't sound good enough. 14 days water. 

[00:21:40] Josiah Serra
I wanna say I was starving to death, but then we switched metaphors. But yeah, I had been dying for a lack of something, you know, that just finally started to come apparent to me. I was kind of looking at my life and it looked like a plant that you stopped watering and took out of the sun. It's just like, dude, I am dying here. I can't live like this and I don't have the strength for another comeback. This isn't funny anymore. I'm 21. I can't do this. I can't get up anymore, you know? So it started me searching the what is really missing for my life. I love the picture you gave the source y all resources weren't doing anything. As soon as they're gone. This is who I really am. This is the real condition of my life. Who can talk to the real condition of my life. I need a person, not a solution or another pep talk, or more fear or substance. More substance. So for him to have entered into my life, it was like, let's water that plant and put it back in the sun. Or in other words, people were made to live in the presence of God. We're made for that. The Bibles clear about that. sometimes we get the idea that life is okay without God, but if you'd make.

[00:22:53]
 You know, if religion's for you, you want to deal with God stuff, that's okay. It's like, no Jesus followers of Christ. We're claiming something a lot more fundamental than that. We're saying that life without God is strange. Life without God is out of the ordinary. Life without God is stunted in full of poverty, not the other way around. It's not here to keep you from anything. It's where life is at. I love how counter-cultural that. I like the shock that comes over people when you tell them that. 'cause the idea, I know one idea culturally of Christianity is it involves giving up a lot of things. It's gonna be about giving up, right? Right. It's about disciplining. Right. some people eat only salad. That's good for them. I'm a meat eater. Sorry, you know. 

[00:23:36] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, and when you share that. It, you talked about deficiency earlier and you're, you're thirst and sometimes you know you're thirsty, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you're ready, sometimes you're not. And I've been meditating. Matthew chapter five, I. Quite a lot. Of course, this is something we've been talking about on the show a little bit. I love the sermon now, man. That's central for me. Yeah, yeah. It really is. It's sort of this, this, this, here I am, world sermon. He had been preaching in, in the synagogues and on the countryside, but this was, this was the big day, right? Yeah. And of course, likely would've said the sermon many times over. Yeah. This was, this was his. Opening statement. Of course, he begins with Blessed are, and we, and you had mentioned just going through that, I would encourage, if you're listening to, to check that episode out and deconstructing what it means to be blessed from Jesus's perspective in that, that that un unbreakable life joy.

[00:24:34]
 That the divine joy that's not dependent on any external circumstances. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Blessed, right? Yes. And as you go through the chapter, there's 48 verses, 5 48. This speaks to what you're talking about. At the end of the chapter, he says, be yeah, be of. That's a tall order. And that's the whole thing, like, well, Christians, that means that I gotta give all this stuff up, right? Yeah. But if you, if you, and this is what I love about language and, and etymology and Yeah. And of course you're in, in the pastoral world, you study the, the, the intended language and the breakdown of the meaning. Because our English words have a, it, it leaves a lot to, to yes. To the, to the, to the depth and the breadth and the, the true. Flavor, if you will. Absolutely. Of, of, of language. And so the Greek word for that is teos. And it's an interesting word because it means to be complete. Yeah. It means to be whole. Yeah. It means not to be flawless, but fulfilled. 

[00:25:38] Josiah Serra
Yeah. Like a tree, given its fruit, you know, this is what I'm here for. I found it. I mean, I wanna be complete. 

[00:25:45] Dr. Nate Salah
Me too. I wanna be mature. Yeah. I want to be fulfilled like that to me. That's like the life 100% and it's the life. 

[00:25:55] Josiah Serra
Yeah. Yes, dude. Think about the intense American vision of a fully developed life. So you got a guy in a, in a perfect and beautiful house with a perfect family, huge income, and a great job that involves what he's good at. How powerful is the cry we hear from people in that condition who go, this can't be it. This can't be all there is. You want to go through, sorry. You know, as far as our culture can see. That's it, brother. That's true. 

[00:26:29] Dr. Nate Salah
Devastation, man. Yeah, man. Yeah. I see it all the time. Yeah. And that's, I would say 60 to 70% of the, people who come into our, our, our G three program or Grow, give, go, leadership program come from that. Yeah. They come from massive worldly success. They come from climbing that ladder and getting all the way to the top and realizing all this time it was leaning against the wrong building. Not teleos, not complete, even though they were supposed to be. Right. That's wild. Yeah, that's pretty cool. So you have spiritual bankruptcy, you have families torn, you have communities isolated. Yeah. Yeah. Then what? Like you said, then what? Now what? I love it. Like you find Jesus at the, then what, now what?

[00:27:15]
 And so there's like, even then someone listening right now is probably like, yeah, that's me. I'm, I'm there right now, but mm-hmm. I don't know if I like, wanna do this whole God thing or this whole religion thing or this whole, I already, you know, I did that when I was young and I, I got away from it. I've had a lot of success, but I think I'm gonna try some different things, but I'm listening. You have my ear? Yeah, you have my ear. And this is one of the things. That goes back to your original statement. Jesus isn't asking you to figure it all out at day one. No. All he's saying is that's your problem. Usually just follow me. Yeah, that's it. There's like, we overcomplicate it. 

[00:27:55] Josiah Serra
In fact, that's just a human way, right? 100%. Especially in our culture, which it's almost like, . The problem is the way you're approaching it, so people think that Jesus is basically recruiting them to another go. At adding things, going through a process of completion, learning some knowledge, doing some things so that they can put together a resume or an expertise or something like that, that would help them earn their way into that complete and better life. And the good news for someone in that condition is to say, no, man. That feeling that you have, that you tried that already, I'd like to, affirm that. You definitely tried that already. Anyone who says No, here's this new system and if you work my system, you're gonna find happiness. If that sounds like same thing, different face, that's 100% correct.

[00:28:45]
 I would challenge that person to say, are you sure you're hearing what Jesus is offering? And you'll notice if you go your gospels. Jesus had to constantly more than he would just say things. He had to constantly challenge the way people were hearing him because they were trained into the same ruts, cultural and religious, and they wanted Jesus to fit in one of those two. Ultimately, I. People didn't kill Jesus because he was mean or rude or disruptive or anything like that. Honestly, it came down to they took his life because he would not get into those ruts that they told him to get into, and they said, buddy, we got one place. For someone who doesn't get into those ruts, what do you want me to tell you? A hundred percent. Yeah, a hundred percent Barbi. Right? We want the zella. Yeah, give us the Zella. So I would challenge that person and say, I know you feel like you've tried this, but this is the type of thing that if you actually had tried it, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

[00:29:40] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. And this was the same. This is what I love about the timelessness of Jesus's story and his message and, and those he touched in life. The first disciples, whether it was the fishermen or the, the, the tax collector, whoever it was. More often than not, the question was, and it was an underlying question, don't settle for success.

[00:30:02] Josiah Serra
Yeah. And that should sound crazy. 

[00:30:06] Dr. Nate Salah
It's, if it doesn't sound crazy, then you're not listening. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And why? Because there's so much more. Yeah, there's so much more. And like you said, he continually had to like, redirect, redirect, redirect. Because the price we pay for inclusion is conformity as, as it's been said. Yeah. And so they wanted him to fit into this conformity box of what they believed was the pathway to fulfillment. Right. And he continued to to, to redirect even. I mean, even after the resurrection, are you now going to liberate the Kingdom to Israel flag? Guys, we've been at this quite a while.

[00:30:41] Josiah Serra
I even came back from the dead and, and you're still not hearing me. And that's right before he sends to heaven. 'Cause he is just finally, you know what I'm saying? It's kind like. You don't, you guys don't get it yet. That's for the Father Times and seasons, but I do have something for you. I want you to go be my witnesses. That's right. Then when he says, go, do you know what your podcast is attempting to do? Be my witnesses. Go back into your normal way of life. Like right where I met you. I want you to go back and I want you to show them what I've shown you, why you will never be the same. It's, you know, that you, it's not time to go back into this rut. No, this was not a creative, religious way to do what you guys had wanted me to do. All along Jesus, up to the cost of his own life, his own reputation, at the sacrifice of him not being able to have a family, losing friends, all that kind of stuff, no matter what the cost. Jesus never flinched on the I'm not on that road with you guys. This is a new way truth in life. Amen. There isn't another system like that.

[00:31:48]
 There can't be, 'cause all the other systems that are come up with peep by people have to work according to the same routes that we're in. This is what we do. It's not what Jesus does. He's offering you a new way of life, and unless his new way strikes you sometimes as kind of crazy, or you can't do that. Good examples. I like. Is a great one in my environment because a lot of guys I'm helping come out of addiction or, try to stay out prison. Protecting your own personal reputation. Against insults is fundamental. And if you don't do that, then there must be something fundamentally wrong with you. And if I understand right from a cultural background, that's the way Jesus's hearers would've understood him. For someone to slap you on the cheek would've just been insulting in public, on purpose, in a physical manner to say, you're a worthless person. And if Jesus instruct me, then to turn to them the other cheek also. Either Jesus is saying, learn to be worthless, or is there a type of worth you could have that no public insult could ever take from you? Is it possible? I'm giving you something that can't be taken from you by anyone under any circumstances. Up to the point where if someone makes you carry a burden for them, one mile, offer to go the second because they're not affecting you. 

[00:33:07] Dr. Nate Salah
That should act, that should sound crazy to people. Game changer. It is crazy. Yeah, it's crazy in the first century. It's crazy today. Yeah. These are, and we know these stories and even, even just hearing it gotta hear fresh. It's like, it's, it's, it's like, oh man, that just gets me jazzed up. And there's so much to that. There's so much involved in a role in this. These stories that are counter-cultural, counter preservationists. They're counter, yeah. What we would anticipate as this is the way to fulfillment, the pathway to fulfillment should be self preservation. Yeah. It should be self honor. It should be dying on your sword. What else could it be? Yeah. What else could it be? It's like, nah, nah, and, and, and then there's so much packed into that, even the, the walking another mile. I. Often, and in the, in those days, for some context there, the Romans Yeah, of course had a, a very heavy burden, on, on the, the, the, the people of the time, the Jews in, in Judea. As oppressors, and of course they would have the Jews do all kinds of things for them as second class citizens, subhuman In their own.

[00:34:17]
 Yeah, in their own right. In those days, the, the Romans would have the, the, the Jewish person carry their gear. Yeah. A mile. And so what is Jesus saying? He's saying, these people you loathe. These people, you hate these people. If there was not, not another Roman on the planet, yeah. You'd be, you'd feel really good about that. Yeah. Right. Because they've hurt you. Yeah. And on a daily basis. And daily, and here's what I'm, here's what I'm gonna ask you to do. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna ask you if they oppress you for a mile. Go to, yeah. And I think that there's lot, a lot to that. One thing, one thing that I find. That is so attractive. In that vein of walking that extra mile, is what other purpose would there be to walk that extra mile? You're a thinker. I'm a thinker. We're very logical and mm-hmm. Systematic. I think what could happen in that extra mile. Yeah. What could be said. 

[00:35:22] Josiah Serra
Yeah, what could be felt, especially if you walked that extra mile with dignity and joy. You are now leaving that Roman soldier to explain why the most powerful force on earth at that time, the Roman Empire. Why is all of its power failing to take from this person what it's taken from every other country and empire they encountered? Why am I failing? Why is this person like me? Why are they sharing their life with me? Why are they, I mean, I mean to demean them and they're not demeaned. They're also not trying to demean me or give me only what they have to give to show me that this is the limits of your power. I. Why are they doing this? They have to answer that question.

[00:36:05] Dr. Nate Salah
I love that. That mile is a, is a, is an entire mile of mic drop. I love it, man. It, it, it literally is. Yeah. Because who's then, who is leading it? Who's following? I love. Yeah. Who is oppressed at that point. You're tapping on it, right? Yeah. And, and that illumination of oppression. Yeah. It's like, no, no, no. You gotta flip, brother. Yeah. You're oppressed. Yeah. You're oppressed right now because you don't have me, as we say in the Greek, the life joy that is not. Dependent on any external circumstance. I got it. I got Jesus. Yeah. There's nothing you can do. Yeah. And even you think about Paul and Silas in the jail and all these different situations. Yes. Where it's like, oh wow, who's in jail?

[00:36:45] Josiah Serra
I, you know what I'm saying? And I've had that experience of dealing with guys, of doing some prison ministry, being able to talk with some guys in prison. Who physically and because of their own actions have all of their, life restrained and they're under the power of someone else. Now, when I walk out, I encounter a lot of people who don't have their personal freedoms restrained by anybody 'cause they're living in a freedom nation and they don't, as far as you can have freedom here, they have it who have, don't have the peace and joy and personal freedom that I just witnessed in a guy in an eight by eight box. You. That's powerful stuff. You know who's, who's in prison then? In a weird way, yes. Not this guy. This one who lives in their own place and does what they choose to do. They're in prison. This person has found a freedom that's free inside of a prison. If you could bottle that and sell it, there's no limit to the money.

[00:37:43]
 You would've, and it messes with your head. I mean, think about it like someone listening. This messes with your head because if you are in that situation, let's just take it to. The Roman situation. Right. And somebody who you despise. Yeah. Is, is forcing you into a situation where you just want to have massive revenge. Yeah. This is like, it messes with your thinking because you're like, no, I feel like I need to stab him 30 times with a dagger. 

[00:38:16] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. Because they took from me very serious things they took from me. When Jesus is saying this, it's so important when he saying this. Hear us. This is like full on breaks. Like, did you just say that? It should better be, did you just say that? Seriously? I thought you were one of us. 

[00:38:34] Josiah Serra
They said that. They did say that and, and they threw him out. They gave him to the Romans to kill, like, okay, you love him so much. Watch what they'll do. And they didn't wanna kill him, right? They didn't wanna kill him, right? Like, he's your problem. Everywhere he went, he was making people feel weird. In fact, okay? Pilate says to him, don't you understand that I have the power to either take your life or spare you have your crucified or not? Instead of Jesus saying, you know, whatever, any, any kind of reviving, anything like that, it's like, no, man, I, I have to tell you something you don't understand. I'm under God's power. Nothing happens to me except he let you do it. Yeah. You know, who's really on trial here? I mean, yeah. Jesus could say to Pilate, no, man, I have the ability to either, to spare your life or take it. 

[00:39:25] Dr. Nate Salah
It's, it's a complete flip. Yeah. And in our own lives, this, this question that keeps coming up. Does God work? Does God work? This is the, this is. Example and evidence. Yeah. as Jesus doesn't just say it, he experiences it with us. Yes. 

[00:39:46] Josiah Serra
You guys are in a, I loved your, I like what you're doing. I've always loved to talk with you about business and things like that and your faith. And then what attracted me to your podcast and everything you're doing with the leadership training is. You guys are in a, I hope people understand this. So in Amer America's a money culture, a powerful money culture. So then if you choose to work in commerce of any kind, you are working in a high risk situation, morally, spiritually, okay. For some reason it always makes sense to us. So we would go, Hey, if you go to some country where being a Christian's illegal. That's a high risk situation to go to. And that's true. One thing I think we don't pay enough attention to, and I wish we would, and I, and I think you guys are starting to do well, starting, I'm sure there's others, I'm, I'm watching you do it, addressing that this is a moral and spiritual high risk situation to work in commerce and business and money in America and maintain your faith.

[00:40:41]
 'Cause there's some strains of, of Christianity that would say you just have to stay out of that. If you're gonna, if you're gonna follow Christ, you have to stay out of it. The two problems they have is Christ called some people who were involved in Congress and didn't tell 'em to stop. And then Christ said that his message, his life presence of the Holy Spirit, the gospel in our lives was equal to these. Instead of quitting and running from money because it is a powerful force. I wonder if you could keep discrediting money as a power to run your life by staying around it and showing what it could do in the service of Christ. Right. To me, that's a great, that's, that's more of a gospel victory. Yes. But Jesus' words helps us see the risk, the power involved there. And I would imagine people in your line of work. Are very tough to talk to about intangible worths. Mm. I would think that does not excite, it doesn't immediately think, oh man, this guy. He's some kind of goofy guru. That's not what I needed. I needed a money guy. It's like, hey, can we, do we still have a conversation?

[00:41:51] Dr. Nate Salah
It's a tough metric, right? It's, it is a tough metric to assess because it's a leading, not a lagging indicator, right? So this is the way I describe it. And I've been in the money business for 30 years, right? I, I've seen it all. I've seen destitute all the way to never have to work a day in your life. And entrepreneurs who have tons of it, entrepreneurs are just struggling. Everybody in between, including myself, right? Yeah. And I found, you know, of course the, the, the, the verse is a, is a popular verse. The, the love of money is the root of all kinds of evils. Yeah. And that's, that's, that says a lot because I think greed becomes a disease and there's a show, American Greed. I used to watch it all the time. Yeah. It truly was a disease. You see these people who had money and they couldn't have enough. It was insatiable disease. Yeah. And. I found that, money is, is a, it's, it's a necessary lifeblood in any business, whether it's a church or a nonprofit or, or, or for-profit or any, anywhere. Right. It's, it's, it, it helps to, to provide resources.

[00:42:43]
 Yeah, yeah, resources. What I'm particularly, fond of with, with money in of itself and how Jesus. He, he talks a lot about money. He talks a lot about, you know, counting the cost and the, the parable of talents and how we, you know, multiply and increase what we're entrusted with and so on and so forth. So much, so much of that. Years ago, and I mentioned on the show before Bears repeating my son when he was young, he, he, he, he was at the counter and he said, dad, is it, is it wrong to wanna be rich? I mean, really rich. He qualified, all right. He qualified. He wasn't going small. I chuckled and I told him this. I said, the one after all the zeros in someone's bank account doesn't impress me. What's truly Mark remarkable is how we use it. As part of our time, talent, and treasures we're entrusted with Yeah. To serve and help others. Really, that's the, that's the goal. That's the goal for the wealth. And, you know, I don't wanna be that guy. I don't wanna be that, that build bigger barns and die like, you know?

[00:43:44]
 Yeah. This, this night your life will be required of you guy. Right? Yes. And keeping that in context, I think what keeps it sober for myself and for other entrepreneurs who have experienced financial gain. Who, those who have not is to remember that it is a tool to utilize, to bless with. Right? Yeah. And not necessarily the blessing, like, you know, we talk about different kinds of blessing, just like that one episode. But really the true blessing I think is to, as you had mentioned earlier, to come full circle the, the moral, the relational aspect of our walk. Yeah. It's not. Mutually exclusive to money and the, and the, and the accumulation for that purpose. It best coincides with it. In doing so, it's, it is, it can be a, a stumbling block because people, you know, when I say, Hey, you should do things ethically and morally, it's more profitable for you. There's scoffers on every corner. Like, Nate, you know, if I cut this deal, if I do this, this, and this, I'm gonna make more money. I. That's usually the, the, the sidebar, right? Yes. But there's a cost. 

[00:44:57] Josiah Serra
Right? But the fact that they do not believe you off the bat is wonderful because in me it's the same way as you were talking about, you accumulate resources in order to be a blessing to someone else. The American. Is going, I, Nate, I know, I know everyone says that, but you're saying that to make yourself feel better about wanting to get on top, and I understand that. And so that's, that's where the challenge of the, does it work? Does God work? I'm kind of throwing that glove down. I think if somebody really wanted to, they'd say. Nate, you're gonna have to show me, man. I'm sorry. I've seen so many examples of the other way around. Mm-hmm. That's where I feel it's like, okay, now we're in the big leagues. This is not a joke anymore. This is like, does this work? You know? 

[00:45:45] Dr. Nate Salah
Yes. And here's the thing, here's what I say. This is the entire, our entire academy is built on this premise. Yeah. That you're, you're describing in part, so our G three model, grow, give, go. I'll explain it briefly and how it manifests itself. The idea is what is the end result in, in the journey? Mm-hmm. Because that's really what vision is. Vision sets a a course to a better future state. Yeah. That's attractive. It's worthwhile, and it's achievable. The thing about vision is. Without vision, we settle for mediocre. Yeah, right. Because like if I don't have vision, then I'll just do the Do I first day at school. 

[00:46:26] Josiah Serra
Right? What does that have to do with me? Yeah, right. No vision. 

[00:46:28] Dr. Nate Salah
But if we have vision, then we say, oh, there's something greater to strive for. There's some standard that's above and beyond what I'm accustomed to. So I say, okay, here's my vision. And I believe, at least for those who have said, man, I believe that there's a God, I believe that Jesus. Models, the God does God work. Yeah. And one day I'm gonna go and I'm going to meet God. And there's one phrase, there's one phrase that will be most desirable, more than anything else that I'm ever gonna hear him say. And it comes outta scripture and it's just a few short words. Well done. Mm-hmm. Good and faithful sermon. Yeah. How do I get there? Well, money can't be, my God. Yeah. Or your reward. Yeah. And so the way we've devised it, if you will, our three value statements, our three action items, the three Gs, grow purposefully, start with growth. Not just any growth. Growth full of purpose. Why did Jesus say, I've come to you, have life and have it what? To the full, right? Yeah. Abundantly. So grow to be full of purpose because without purpose, you know what happens every day. Yeah. Life is extinguished. That's right. And sadly, tragically, life is extinguished for good.

[00:47:53]
 Yeah, that's right. It happens every day. Purpose is extinguished. So if you're, if you're growing purpose fully full of purpose. You've got something. Yeah. Two give generously. Yeah. There's your test, right? Aren't you coming up against a test there, right? Yeah, because if I'm growing purposefully. There's an abundance coming into my cup. Yeah. Of time, talent, and treasures. Yeah. The next test is then turn around and give generously. 

[00:48:24] Josiah Serra
Let it sting a little bit. Oh yeah. So you can get tested. 

[00:48:25] Dr. Nate Salah
You know that Yeah. That, that CS Lewis model, right? Yeah. Let it sting. Let it sting. A little bit of sacrifice in that, because otherwise you're playing a game. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Game. That's the generous three. Go love radically. Yeah. That seals. Those two behaviors. Yeah. That it's not simply out of my vein. Ambition. 

[00:48:46] Josiah Serra
Yeah. Or a cloak to get more of a resource. Look good in front of everyone else. Keep pulling the cloak off. If you can. Keep putting yourself in positions where you can pull it off. Know that it's dangerous. Know that it's sneaky. Know that Jesus called it the other master versus God. It's interesting, right? When he came up with, you can only serve one. Mm-hmm. The one he chose at that time at least, was money. In that example, you can either, you'll love one, hate the other, hate the one love the other. You can't serve both God and money. So it's interesting that he put it. In this corner we have, you know, so, so if Jesus did that, it means it's worthy of our, of the kind of attention you're giving it there. So you're saying you have to have a plan. It has to be road tested, it has to be full of purpose, it has to be done in community.

[00:49:36]
 That's what I hear you saying to come join our community. Because if you try to sit. In your own isolation, you're gonna fool yourself into the fact that you're doing this. So if you form a community that holds itself to that standards, that is discipleship, man. That's serious-level discipleship. If you guys hold yourselves to those biblical standards and that biblical practice that would show that you really do, or that you have found something in God, who that's worth more than money, not, we all know money's the best. But let's, so that we can raise better kids or something. Let's pretend it's not every Sunday, but don't worry, we'll be right back on Monday. So don't think I've lost it or anything. I'm still your money guy. It's like, jeez, that's not Jesus. That's what attracts me to the model you're talking about there, because this is gonna be the way I'm hearing you speaking. This is not a Sunday only practice. This is gonna involve your entire life, 'cause that means it's for real. And at the end of come full circle.

[00:50:36] Dr. Nate Salah
Jesus simply says, come follow me. Yeah. And test and see taste and see. That's right. God does work.

[00:50:46] Josiah Serra
Yeah. Even in the face of a tremendous power, like money. 

[00:50:50] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. Thanks for being here, brother. You gotta, My pleasure, man. Do this again. My pleasure. Well, my friend, we did it. I'm so honored you were able to join me on this episode of A Call to Leadership. Now this might not be for everyone because you really have to be in a certain place in order to take the kind of steps to level up your leadership. And I want you to be taking steps, and for those of you who feel like you're ready for something like this, there's a place you can go. You can go to our website, greatsummit.com. I'll make sure that's in the show notes. But here's the cool thing that we have. We've got a masterclass. We have all different kinds of events. We even have our leadership club where you can meet other people just like you to go deeper in your leadership journey. You and I'll get to spend some time together and really focus on aiming for greatness. I can't wait to see you there. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, and this is A Call to Leadership. 








ACL EP281 Final Transcription
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1axyWtOeekCqIlHfqe3Mr_apNOkNmg9n3/edit 

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