A Call To Leadership

EP288: Mature Leaders Love with Mike Baue

• Dr. Nate Salah

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Can you lead like a lion and a lamb at the same time? Mike Baue returns to explore how identity in Christ transforms leadership, ambition, and the way we build businesses. From surrender and obedience to curiosity and delegation, this episode challenges the idea of success without spiritual alignment. Press play to discover what happens when your leadership starts at the feet of Jesus.

Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • Why judgment kills influence and curiosity unlocks growth
  • The pride trap in delegation and how 80% can be 100% awesome
  • Difference between buy-in and belief in team leadership
  • Are you waiting on God, or is He waiting on you to act?
  • How identity in Christ transforms business, masculinity, and leadership


Resources Mentioned In This Episode


About Mike Baue
Mike Baue is a husband, father, entrepreneur, musician, pilot, and international bestselling author. A seasoned business leader, he helps others grow with purpose by blending strategic insight, faith, and servant leadership to transform the marketplace. He’s passionate about raising up leaders and building businesses rooted in love, integrity, and identity in Christ.

Connect with Mike


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To learn more, visit our website at www.greatsummit.com.

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[00:00:00] Mike Baue
I must be the lion as the Lord is the lion of Judah, but I also need to be the lamb who is even more empathetic, even more graceful, because to whom much is given, much is required, and to whom even more is given more is required. 

[00:00:20] Dr. Nate Salah
We don't use the term love in leadership often, however, in business, in family, in life. True care. Care of those who we are called to serve as leaders is only magnified by our position on love. I've invited my dear friend and colleague in the space of leadership and entrepreneurship back on the show. Mike Bowie is a. Juggernaut in his intellect and his ability to unpack these concepts of how we can lead most effectively. I can't wait for you to listen in. I'm Dr. Nate Salah. This is A Call to Leadership. Hey, Mike. Hi. How are you, brother?


 [00:01:08] Mike Baue
Fabulous. Good to see you, man. I'm really blessed and grateful to be here a second time, so that's pretty cool. 

[00:01:15] Dr. Nate Salah
Thanks for inviting me twice. Yeah, it says a lot, right? I hope like you get the invite back. 

[00:01:19] Mike Baue
Either A, you liked what we talked about, or B, it was so bad you were hoping for a do-over.

[00:01:22] Dr. Nate Salah
No man, one of the others. Yeah. Regular, regular, regular guest. And for those who didn't get to experience, our time together, we'll make sure to. Put your last visit with us in the show now. It's very powerful episode on really asking the right questions. Right. And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And here we are. And we started, before we even started recording, you started asking me more right questions. It just has, and I think it's just in your nature. 

[00:01:46] Mike Baue
It is. You know, I learned a long time ago that judgment is the en enemy of influence and curiosity is the anecdote to judgment. So, like, how can I be more curious in a right and righteous way? Right? So yeah. Questions, man, I got questions. That's powerful. I don't rest on, we're business owners, we're entrepreneurs, we're we're disciple makers, we're all the things that we're supposed to be, but we, and you're the same way. I, that's why I like you so much. I absolutely love you because Love you. You don't rest on what you know.

[00:02:20] Dr. Nate Salah
No, no you can't. Because he stopped growing at that point. Right. I think. One of the hallmarks of effective leadership is the insatiable curiosity. 

[00:02:31]Mike Baue
Yeah. We can't rest on what we know because we might grow wider. Stopping with what we know and wider might be good. You know, we might get more income, we might get more, our business might multiply. We might keep expanding our holdings, but we're not moving forward necessarily. We have to ask different questions, and I was thinking about that recently that. Like, I think I've, I've spoken with you about how when I hired out my last role in my company, what does A CEO do? It's like, now I guess I'm, I guess I gotta be a CEO. What, what's a CEO do? Right? So what are those questions, right? Mm-hmm. So it's fun. And, and I had just before we started recording, I had asked you. About raising up leaders in your company and, and, you know, is that part of your plan? And I, I love how you were sharing about, you know, with your son and, and who knows what his plans are, but you found people, it's hard for, for leaders and voyagers and ventures and to find people to, to be them. And maybe we shouldn't. 

[00:03:29] Dr. Nate Salah
Right? No, I think you're right. I think that, again, asking the right questions, right? You had asked me off camera. Hey, what's your, you know, have you, have you considered or have you thought about, you know, your own sort of replacement, right? Because as you, you move for your business journey, evolution of who you are as a, as a business leader, eventually you get to the point where, okay, so what's my long-term, if you will, strategy for the next, the baton pass, right? Right. And sometimes we think, oh, well. I need to find someone to replace me. And, and as we were talking, I had went on that search for so many years. It's like, well, maybe that's the wrong question. Maybe it's you don't find your replacement. Maybe you build up, develop leaders who can each have, not just ownership, but believe in their unique gifting to far exceed your own.

[00:04:24] Mike Baue
Right. Yeah. You don't want someone to carry it as far as you can. Right. 

[00:04:31] Dr. Nate Salah
That's not how a relay works. Yeah. And, and a lot of entrepreneurs, leaders like yourself and myself, you, I, I look at us like you've been a musician, so you get this, the one-man band. Right? Right. You've, you've seen 'em, they, they play all those instruments. Right. And then you start getting, some other players to play. Yeah. And eventually, depending on the size and scope of your organization, you're gonna have a full orchestra, and then you become the conductor. 

[00:04:57] Mike Baue
Win those. Musicians that play all those instruments all at the same time. The unique quality that that I see in that is they do them all poorly. Mm-hmm. So find someone to play those drums. Right. Well, yeah. Find someone to play the bass well. Right. 

[00:05:15] Dr. Nate Salah
Exactly. Yeah. And better than you. Right. To me, that's one of the hallmarks I believe of not only humility and leadership, but I would also say in. Servant leadership and really serving well is to say, Hey, I can't go any further than my own lid will get me. Right. Right. One of the John Maxwell sort of, yeah. You know, philosophies, and it's like, okay, who can help? Who sees this journey and this vision? And I love to even structure tell me things I don't know. Right. Help me solve problems I didn't know I had. 

[00:05:54] Mike Baue
Yeah. What corners can't I see around? Mm-hmm. 'cause that gets exciting, right, Mike? Right? Well, when I think, you know, when you reach a certain point in business, okay, let's say you start out and you're strapped for cash, right? You're just, it's like everything's a hustle, right? Mm-hmm. And I'm not a hustle culture guy, but I mean, you gotta hustle. Mm-hmm. Like when there's, when there's no, when revenue. And you a thing and you're trying to connect the solution that you have with the problems in society and you know you wanna share the value bring that you bring, right? So you're hustling. There's really no, there's no other way to do it. But then, but like for me, it was like, I gotta do it all myself. Right? The humility comes when it's like, I literally can't grow this anymore. Mm-hmm. Let's say that your revenue reaches this high, whatever it is. Let, okay, everybody wants to make their first million. Okay? You get to your first million. And not with respect to the numbers, but do you remember when you started your business?

[00:06:48]
I know when I started mine, there was a, an amount, an actual amount of revenue that I stuck at. And until I learned that that's all I was capable of, for whatever reason, I didn't have the education, I didn't have the time, I didn't have the talent, I didn't have something at that point. Well, how do you cope? Right. And what did you do? Like how did you handle that situation in your business when it was like, wow, I've reached, did you have that? I've reached the end of me moment and And how did you respond if you did? 

[00:07:17] Dr. Nate Salah
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember very vividly and it was where I knew I had gotten to the pinnacle of, and it wasn't even like, in some ways it was self-limiting beliefs. In other ways it was not enough data because I had, it was almost an island, you know, you kind of get into business and then you're, you build all of these systems around you. And then, not that you necessarily stagnate, but there is a little bit of a stagnation because you're like, okay, well all this is working fine. And the process is, is is moving along. And I've found comfort here. And of course we know comfort is the enemy of progress, right. So when I began to, and this is back to people, when I began to get people onto the bus, if you will, who had different experiences in the same industry and said, you know, at my old firm. We did X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, oh, wow. Well, I hadn't thought of that and can you help me implement that? Absolutely. Right. Or my, you know, or, or you bring in a, you know, I brought in some consultants on, some work that I had already done. We had already done some advisory work for businesses, but they're like, you know, if you did X, Y, and Z, you could provide even more value.

[00:08:44]
Like, oh, that sounds like a good idea. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so all of a sudden you begin, you know, it's almost like, um. It just opens a gate. And then, but the, the, the beauty of that gate is, is that you're not having to walk it alone. It's your team's like, Hey, by the way, we don't have to walk this, hop in this vehicle. Ah, yeah. Here's a system. There's a process, a procedure. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I don't have to by the way, and don't have to drive it. Right. Right. You can literally be a part of it and not only observe, but then you can report and you can be more involved in the process of it. Instead of feeling, and we know this, you know this is an entrepreneur, you feel like all of it's on your shoulders and people are like, Hey, you can release it.

[00:09:32] Mike Baue
When that moment came, there was boy, there was stress. Hmm. In my life and my business because I knew that I had to hire out somebody to do what I was doing. But the stress was how do I pay for 'em? How do I do this? Mm-hmm. Can they do as well as me? 'cause I don't wanna, you know, I don't wanna lose that sheep, right. That client. I didn't wanna lose an opportunity to help someone. You know, we work in a health and wellness and so, gosh, if someone, if we have a prospect, and let's say my salesperson doesn't deliver. Make the right connection and we don't help that person. I, I would be crushed not for the revenue. We were doing fine because I really want to help people. Right. So I had a big problem with turning over this responsibility because, in hindsight, it was my pride. Mm-hmm. I was the best at what I could do. Right. But I read some great books. Can I plug a book? Of course. Okay. Dan Martel. What's the book called? It'll come to you? it'll come to me. Yeah.

[00:00:00]
 But I'll buy back your time. Mm-hmm. I knew the concept 'cause I had hired out staff for years. Right, right. But I was in this sales role and then I read, it was like magic. And I, I read the line. This is the line, Dan, if you see this, thank you. 'cause here's the, here's the line. If, if you can hire somebody to do 80% as well as you, that's a hundred percent awesome. I love it. And I'm like, really? That's strong. Like, I didn't believe it. So I hired somebody, I trained her and I cut her loose and her, her first week she closed 82%. I, I was closing plus 90, but she closed 82% her first week. That's amazing. And now she's doing better than I ever did. And what a lesson that is, right?

[00:10:36] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. Well, it's that 80. So 80% of something's better than a hundred percent of nothing. 

[00:11:32] Mike Baue
That's absolutely true. And here's the thing is the time freedom that I got from her doing this. It helped me to do other things in the business. Like once I bought back that time, I was able to look, take a higher-level view. And you and I have talked about this where I was able to, to take a higher-level view and I saw holes where I was spending money I didn't need to spend because, 'cause I had time to look. Mm-hmm. Right. And I was saving my company tens of thousands of dollars versus trying to make thousands. And to me that was a, an ego and a pride thing that I had to deal with. Like I, nobody can do as good as me. Right. Which is a lie. Right. But let me ask you a question, please. I like this. It's fine. How did you maintain as entrepreneurs, we need a bullish sort of confidence, right? Because we break things. We rebuild them, we smash through walls. We do all these things that, that people with, you know, visionaries do. Right? Yeah. Did you struggle with maintaining that, that confidence and that charisma and that attitude of go, go, go. Let's shake things up and let, let's be a disruptor. How did you deal with. That part of your life while becoming more humbled Mm. And bringing in other people in to cover your weaknesses.

[00:12:59]
Like that's a transition for me. Mm-hmm. That I, I needed help because I'm weak in areas, but when I was living in the bullish beginning, I can do everything. Yeah. You know? Do you see the question that I'm asking you? I do. Were you able to maintain that drive but also have the humility. To serve those that are serving your vision? It's a wonderful question. 

[00:13:22] Dr. Nate Salah
It's a wonderful question. You know, I've been at this three decades, which I, when I say that, it's like, wow, it's a long time. You've been at, you know, you've been at business a long time. We've been at, you know, we've been in the trenches for years and I always wanted to build enterprises that had, that were self-sustaining. I always wanted to make sure that. In that journey that the most important piece that was maintained was excellence and experience. And because I focused on that as the identifier, so my identity as a leader wasn't in my own importance. Because there's a difference between, you know, arrogance and confidence. Right? Right. So arrogance is an inflated sense of one's own importance. Confidence is an assurance. Two completely different approaches. I knew that my assurance had to be placed, my identity, if you will, in the vision of excellence and the experience, not just for the client, for the team member, for the stakeholder, from supplier, for everyone involved.

[00:14:36]
And my number one role as a leader was to protect that. Protect the experience through the mission, the vision, the values. So my biggest fear. Wasn't necessarily that, oh, you're gonna release control and you know, you're not gonna be air quotes the man. Right, right, right. Never had that issue. I always wanted to release, I was always just a little, I was worried like, somebody's gonna make mistakes and those mistakes are gonna mean you're gonna have an experience deficit. Right. Yeah. And then I had to release that because even as you said. 80%, right? Like Nate, have you always delivered excellence in the experience or did you have to learn? And so now there's some throttling with that too, right? Right. Because it can go, you can train, wreck and go sideways really fast. But at the same time, and I'm answering your question in a contextual way, I found that my own.

[00:15:44]
 Importance as a leader wasn't in that I did things better than everyone else. It was that I was able to help people to not just buy in because you can have buy-in, you can have commitment, but to believe, to believe in the power of their own gifting, to bring forth that level of, of experience. There's a difference between belief and buy-in, in a way, in that buy-in, you know, you can, you, it's, it's like, oh, okay. I'm, I'm, I, I agree. I'm a part of it. Belief. I love the way it, it, it's been said that to believe something is to be living it. So to believe it is actually to walk it out. 

[00:16:31] Mike Baue
I just thought that when you said buy in and belief to me, the words that came in were passive and active. You know, I can buy into something. Okay. I'm good. Let that go. Let that be, you know, make it happen or believe, man, I'm in, you know, I like your answer. You took your answer in a different way than I thought of. I appreciate that. The confidence that comes as. Man, as you grow your business and you get some revenue and you start hiring things out and realizing that, you know, I need a team and then building that team up, gosh. It's like, you know, for me it became so much more spiritual. Mm-hmm. Everything, you know, I used to have when I was younger. A spiritual life and then a, a home life and a work life. A work life balance. And I don't believe in work life balance and all. I believe in harmony. I believe that if at a certain time of day I need to go meet someone for a thing for my wife or my kids, I'm going, it has nothing to do with my schedule.

[00:17:33]
This is my time to, you know, that's a whole time freedom thing. That's ano maybe another, another episode. But everything in business became spiritual to me and everything became, I. How can I love, you know, it's like, it's like the bride of Christ. Like how can I love my wife as Christ loved the church? How can I love my customers as Christ loved the church? How can I love my kids in those ways? And some of the things that have been coming across my mind lately are things like, you know, waiting on the Lord, right? In business, God, this, that. I'm praying for this, this, this, and this result, and you know, reveal yourself in that. And Bob, what should I do? And all these questions, here's something that I've been really thinking on a lot lately, is, am I waiting on God or is he waiting on me? Right. Things like, what am I praying for? Should I even be praying about this? Or do I already know the answer? You know, I don't have to pray about loving my wife. I don't have to pray about forgiving someone. I don't have to pray about giving a refund to a customer who was wronged. I don't have to pray about giving them a double portion of service.

[00:18:49]
I don't have to pray about doing the right thing. So why am I praying for things? I already know the answer to, and God isn't coming back for what you bury. Let's talk about the parable of the talents, right? One of my favorites, you know, he gives one servant, one talent. He gives one three and one five, right? I mean, it scares the death. That scares me to death. But what if I'm the one? What if I'm the one with the one? And the implication of being the servant who had the one talent and out of fear, he buried it. Well in this parable, it's a talent of money. Mm-hmm. It's a quantity, a quotient of coins. I buried it because I was afraid and I, you know, I know that you get paid for what you don't do. I didn't wanna lose this. Mm-hmm. So out of fear, he buried it, thinking he was protecting this for his master. But what did his master say to him? You wicked and lazy servant. Depart from me. So you serious, I've protected this for you. 

[00:19:58] Mike Baue
You, you, you, you, I protected this for you to be called a wicked, lazy servant. So am I waiting on God or is he waiting on me to use this talent? Now Nate, I want you to talk about this and tell me what your thoughts are on this, in that parable, it's the money, it's investment. Yeah. It's resources, but what if it was actually a talent? Mm-hmm. Playing guitar maybe. You know, I have a friend whose talent is business and making money, and one day God shut it off and for three years he couldn't make a dime. What are some things that you would say to somebody who is experiencing a season where they're waiting on the Lord or in business? Or if they're unsure, like, I love that question. Mm. Am I actually waiting on the Lord or is he waiting on me? Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:59] Dr. Nate Salah
What are your thoughts? Yeah man, thank you for that. So the parable of the talents is probably one of my most favorite verses, or, or I should say, stories that Jesus tells parables. When it comes to understanding our roles, our responsibility, and our resources in multiplying and increasing what we're entrusted with, and again, as you said, it's not necessarily money, right? Time, talent, treasures any, any one of our, our resources and or a combination thereof. And what's fascinating about the parable is. The one who buried the talent. He said that he gave, he gave a reason. The reason was because the, the master was, was, was shrewd and hard. Right? And it's like, okay. A couple things come to mind with that. One is, number one, you don't really know the master because you are mischaracterizing his purpose and plan for your life. And two. You're making some excuses, right? Yeah. You realize, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. So looking at what you're asking under that lens, number one, I would ask myself a couple questions. One, do I truly know the character and the heart of God for me and my life? Because if I understood that, if I understood first John, there is no fear in love.

[00:22:31]
Perfect. Love casts out fear. Why? Because fear has to do with condemnation. There's no condemnation in Christ, right? All right, let's start there. There's some freedom in that. Massive freedom in that. So if I know that God loves me perfectly and I believe that, and he does what is possible for the courage to go out and multiply and increase all of these things I've already been entrusted with, he wouldn't have given to them to me. If he didn't think that they were in good hands. Mm-hmm. Confidence, not arrogance. Two, what's the condition of my heart? Am I lazy? Are my motives wicked? Right? Impure and self-examine. Paul talks about this before we take communion or Lord supper, right? He says, examine yourself. I love that self-examination, Mike. I think it's like a daily thing. Right. Or even multiple, multiple times a day. Right? All day, every day. And so when I'm thinking about how to pursue that, let's talk about leadership, right? In an organization. And I'm so thankful you said, you know, the love piece. And if you ask folks in our camps, we say, we're in the love business, right?

[00:23:39]
We're not in, you know, the widget business, whatever the widget is, right? Because that's the first mandate. First mandate is love. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind love your neighbor is yourself, right? Love. And that is the heart, right? All the commandments are rolled in that what does Jesus say? So that said, if God loves me perfectly and I'm to pour out that love, then I need to take action. Daily. And guess what? One of the most beautiful, and I love all of Jesus' parables, you know, obviously one of the most beautiful aspects of that parable is that for those who did multiply and increase what they were entrusted with, it wasn't the amount that got them to sit at the master's table.

[00:24:35] Mike Baue
It was the obedience. Obedience. That's the end of the run. That's the key end. What a horrible thing that happened to the guy with one talent. Not only was he rebuked and called Wicked and lazy, his talent was taken away. Mm-hmm. Those who have mm-hmm. Will get more and those who have not even what they have will be taken away from them because of lack of obedience. That convicts me as a business owner. You know, what would Paul says in one Corinthians 11, the first line, I won't say it exactly right, but it, it's, Hey, he's not saying imitate Jesus. He's saying, imitate me as I imitate Christ. And that's an implication of leadership, right? Why did he say the imitate me? Why didn't he say imitate Christ? He's saying Imitate me. As I imitate Christ. I mean, that's a great question. That's probably a, a weak workshop right there. Mm-hmm. But let's take ano, let's take it further and make it personal. If my staff, which I'm accountable for, I'm serving them as they serve our customers.

[00:25:45]
If they're imitating me, are they imitating Christ? Hmm. And then what would happen if the Holy Spirit left my business? Would something change or would it maintain its status quo? If the Holy Spirit is in my business, any left, it should be devastated. But if my business just carries on, do, do, do, do, do and does its thing keeps making money when the Holy Spirit left. Oh, that hurts to think about what I've built right. These are things I think about Nate, bro, 

[00:26:27] Dr. Nate Salah
Hit it, hit it hard. And these are the kind of questions that are so relevant for the journey of, of the business owner. The business leader. And the one of the reasons why I love having you on the, on the show is because you're background. In ministry, your background in business, your background in coaching and leadership, and of course a musician. You understand so many of these, how these different pieces come together. And even in your own journey, you have such a, a vulnerability and transparency about your own walk, and that's why it makes you so approachable and you marry that with, with such a deep. And thoughtful heart thought that you, that you put forth when you ask these kinds of questions because you truly desire to receive God's best. 

[00:27:23] Mike Baue
Give it away in everything you do. And you know, this is convicting because when I had less, I, I didn't behave that way. If I'm truly honest. When I had less and, and it was a struggle. I wasn't really honoring God. And God is so gracious that as the business grew, my heart turned. So now how can I be a better steward? Right? Yeah. Like I don't want him to take it away, but I also want him to destroy anything that doesn't have him in it. Just kill it. If you're not in it, just kill it. Just destroy it. I don't know what that means. It sounds like a great podcast title. Right. if he's not part of what I'm doing, I don't wanna be a part of it. And I just took a note. Some of the things that I, that I wrote down before coming here were like, if God you're not in it, you please kill it. Mm-hmm. Because I may not be capable of doing that. I'm sinful and I'm prideful. 

[00:28:22] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. Well, that permission too. What I love about that is giving, of course, God can do what God wants, right? Yeah. Do what he wants. The permission is an act of trust. Really what we're saying is, God, there's certain things in my life that I have blind spots in that aren't in line with your vision for, for my best. As this journey continues, right? I have come to each of life and, and have it to the full. There's things and you're saying, and here's what, here's what we speak. What we speak is this. It may hurt when you kill it, but I'll, I'll, I'll walk in obedience with that, right? 

[00:28:58] Mike Baue
To be grateful and to be obedient, and to be prayerful and filled with praise. During the storms, you know, marriage problems, business problems, problems with your kids, you know, praise you God, for these storms, because I know I've been through enough with you. Yeah. To trust that the outcome is gonna be better than I can imagine. Right. And I've been reading a lot of like stoic stuff lately too. I'm trying to be mindful of that. Mm-hmm. But there is a level of stoicism that I think is valid, but I also think a lot of it's malarkey. Right. Right. One of the things that, that really hits home is the obstacle, is the way, you know, the obstacle is the assignment. You know, the thing that's blocking your growth that's not there accidentally, you know, take a business problem you've had. Wow, we've, we have a vision and a goal and we believe this is right and righteous, and we're moving this way, but man, this is stopping us. Like why? And to not be. To not focus on the problem, to have the long, the long down the range gaze, but deal with it. That is the way, the obstacle is the way, you know, God puts these things in our lives for a reason.

[00:30:13]
He puts the, the people and the challenges and I don't know, that's very, I know that's just like high level almost sounds. You know, babbly and I'm sorry for that. But as we grow in, in our businesses, and I know this is much of, this is bus, this podcast is businessy, but it's also very faith and it's both. Those challenges, man, I love these challenges now that I'm a 57-year-old man, and honestly, it's because we have a level of success. I didn't love the challenges when I was 35. I thought they sucked. 

[00:30:48] Dr. Nate Salah
Same crying out to God, they sucked.

[00:30:52] Mike Baue
Right. Please, Lord, do something right, but what would, what would business look like if the only spirit left it like, oh man, we could still help people, but I'm not interested in that port, that type of business. You know? 

[00:31:07] Dr. Nate Salah
No, no, and here's what you're saying. Resonates with me. We've been in our community, our G3 community and we'll, and we'll have a little time to talk about that. We've been exploring. If you haven't heard, our G three stands for Grow, give, go, grow purposefully, give generously and go love radically. It's our, it's our flagship program and our great summit, leadership academy. It's business leaders shepherding in, in a community with one another to live out, if you will, the, the, the be holy life that, is required of us to be set apart for a divine calling, a divine purpose that is consecrated in, in godly character and, and wisdom. And of course, our goal, our goal is always the same. And you mentioned it. The Parable of Talents. 'cause the Parable of the Talents has one famous phrase in it that we all want to hear when we meet Jesus. Same phrase. Same phrase. Same phrase. Well done, good and faithful servant. And so for us as a community to grow purposefully to grow in the purpose that God has ordained us in, not to shame us, but to shape us, not to condemn us, but to consecrate us then to give generously. You're talking about the giving of our time, talent, treasure, and then go love radically. Of course, it's not necessarily an order, but that's Jesus' model. Mm-hmm. And so. We've been in the Beatitudes and focusing on Jesus's teaching systematic teaching. By the way, he's very systematic. He doesn't just tell you to do something. He explains how and why, and sometimes it's in a parable. Sometimes it's in a very, a step by step operation. And, and the beatitudes are really step by step and. He says, you know, blessed are in the Beatitudes. Blessed vicarious, the Greek for that. And if you haven't listened to the blessed episodes, please do we'll put in the show notes, is to have this life joy that is incorruptible. It's not based on external circumstances, based on the blessing that God pours out in and through us through His grace. Okay. So nothing on the outside can touch that.

[00:33:23]
Yeah. Right. Jesus lays it out. He lays out this, this formula, this system. So he says, the first beatitude, and this is where I want to get to with what you're talking about, is blessed are the poor in spirit, and we think poor in spirit means, oh, I'm downtrodden. No, it means that I have a complete total, 100% dependence on God. And you talked about the Holy Spirit, right? This is what you're talking about. You're talking about a dependence, in other words, without it. The fullness of what we experience cannot exist. That is the power. What you're talking about, a Holy Spirit. This is where Jesus is saying, Hey, start here. Start here with a complete and total dependence. In other words, if God is not in it. It cannot exist in the fullness that it was designed to exist in. That's exactly the essence of what you're talking about. 

[00:34:16] MidTro Ad:
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[00:35:01] Mike Baue
It is. And boy, you just opened up a whole Pandora's box of, of thoughts. 'cause I relate that to being a man, masculinity our place in the world as men right now. And this idea. Society has a perverted view of masculinity, right? And the definition of a good man and a real man. If you ask somebody what a good man is. Usually say, you know, defender of the week, a good husband, a provider for their kids, but what's a real man? Someone who goes out and sows the oats and takes captive of the world and conquers and well, and then let's relate to that, to what we think of the word meek now versus 200 years ago. What does it mean to be meek? Well, meek now means weak and ineffective and, but meek scripturally means someone who's powerful and under control. Mm-hmm. Someone who has, who looks out for the neighbors in society in the common good. Right. That's a good man. Right. And that's what we had. Before, you know, industrialization took man out of the home, and I, that's a whole nother, that's another five episodes there.

[00:36:18]
 But being meek, man, if you walk up to the average Joe today and say, how would you feel about being described as meek? It's like, no way, bro. Mm-hmm. Well, that's a crown of glory. That's right. To be me. That's right. Gosh, I think that, let's relate this to. And how you and I can be effective. We need a marketplace revival. We need revival in the marketplace. We need Jesus minded. You know, like if Jesus ran my business, would it look the same as it does today with me running it? Oh man. How about you? 

[00:37:00] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, I don't know. Well, yeah, it starts with our calendar. If Jesus was running the business, he'd re, he'd revise our calendars first, right? What foremost, yeah, our calendar look like. 

[00:37:08] Mike Baue
What would our employee, what would our payroll look like? 

[00:37:10] Dr. Nate Salah
All our bonus structure look like a hundred percent. And this is, this is that, that dependence, that partnership, if you will. And another way, and I love it, I wanna come back to the meekness piece because I think that's an essential part, which is the third beatitude, right? So like this, and I would encourage you, if you're listening, Matthew chapter five. Is a, oh my goodness. It's a treasure, it's a treasure of Jesus's manifesto really, in a lot of ways, and we won't go into all of it today 'cause Mike and I can just record and record and record. Right. It's also a, it's in a way when we're talking that first one about the, the blessed of the poor in spirit and dependence. It's a surrender. And when you hear the word surrender. As an entrepreneur, as a leader, you think, oh, defeat, I've been beaten. Right? And it's not that at all. What it is, is saying, I don't have to have my weapons laid out in my hands against my friend God. Right? Wow. I've never heard it put that way before. He's not my adversary, he's my ally. Would you ever point your machine gun at your ally in a battle? Never. Never. God says we're on the same team. 

[00:38:32] Mike Baue
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I, I can't, I can't even respond to that. Yeah. He didn't die to make me a better person. He wants my obedience. 

[00:38:38] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. We're in this fight together and, and that meekness is what he's saying. And I love, I love this how it progresses. Then there's blessed are those who mourn Well, well maybe another day for another, another conversation. But blessed are the meek. You, you, you nailed it. Meekness isn't weakness, it's power under control. And what we would say is power under God's control. And the Greek visual for that is imagine a, a wild, horse, strong and able, who is willingly bridled to serve. Right. And so I love the way Dr. Jordan Peterson puts it. He says, he describes meekness as swords, sheathed. Mm-hmm. In other words, you don't have to release it because there's no real threat. Again, back to fear. Right? And so what is he saying? Jesus is saying, look, you are strong when you work with me together in harmony to produce. The godly nature that's necessary in leadership as you model it, as you said, with, with, with Paul, you model it with the help of the Holy Spirit, with the help of God's word in your business, in your family, in your community. 

[00:39:57] Mike Baue
Yeah. When we, when I, when I am not tethered correctly with my Lord and my savior, I attract madness when I am tethered correctly. I repel madness. It wants nothing to do with me. Mm-hmm. Right. So what's the purpose of having a weapon drawn? If I'm riding with the king, right? Yeah. I don't need, you know, if I'm a gun slinger by nature, I don't need my weapons drawn. If I'm riding with the king now, he might deploy me on his behalf. Which, gosh, you know what? I feel like I have a DHD, but I really don't. But here I am thinking about the whole lion and the lamb stuff. Right. You know, my wife and I had gone through some challenges with our marriage over the last couple of years, and it kind and praise God, we, we've had a, an amazing reconciliation and growth, but how many years did do, did I spend being a lion?

[00:40:57]
A man, man's man. It's this way. This is the right way. Right? And what she needed me to be was the lamb, and Jesus is the lion in the lamb. How do you do that? The only way you can do that is with the work of the Holy Spirit. You know, and I lie, I love Dr. Jordan Peterson too, because he talks about, you know, being someone capable of tremendous violence. But someone who is not, who has that under control, and the only way we control it, we can control that was always is with the work and the Holy Spirit. We can't do it. And, and let's get that back to, to the conversation, which is, man, how do we, how do we be this in the marketplace and how do we be this with our team there? And how do we lead with that? Right? And there. That's really such an important part I think in business that we as Christian business leaders have to really, we have to wrestle with. Right? And I love how my wife talks about, Christine talks about wrestling with God. You know, when I, when one of our kids is having a challenge, you know, well Mike, she just has to wrestle with God on that and we have to guide her through that. That's such a spiritually mature way to look at what we wrestle with in the marketplace. Yes. 

[00:42:12] Dr. Nate Salah
I think it comes back to identity. And you, you know, you talked about wrestling with God. Of course, there's a famous story, with, with Jacob and, and, and wrestling with God. And, you know, he wrestled with God in his journey, right? Because he lied to his dad about his identity because he wanted to get the blessing right? Mm-hmm. And he, he, he fled and he, he took all these things into his own hands, right? This was his own, like, Hey, I'm gonna be the guy. I'm gonna handle all this. And so he, you know, the, the long and short of the story is he's going to meet his brother. He, he has this, you know, this dream, if you will, or this, this encounter, with an angel of the Lord. And interestingly, the angel of the Lord pins him down. And what does he do? What does he do? He asks him his name, right? Why? Because the last time someone asked him his name. He lied and said he was his brother because he was taking it all into his own hands.

[00:43:17]
So can imagine how many years later. And he's, he, he remembers it, Mike, he remembers it like it was yesterday and the last time he heard that was from his dying father's lips. And this time it's the angel of the Lord. And what does he do? He tells him the truth. He capitulates, he, he lays down his arms, he surrenders. He walks in that meekness and he says, I'm Jacob. And then the angel says, what? You'll now be called Israel because you have wrestled with God. Right. You finally overcome, not overcome God, overcome this need to do it all on your own. Mm-hmm. It's a game changing moment for him and that name. Israel. Yeah. Oh, and that's where we've got to. Know our identity. Our identity isn't in, you know, Mike's the man. Nate's the man. 

[00:44:07] Mike Baue
No, yeah, yeah. The spiritual maturity. Right. Immature men make dangerous leaders. Right. When we're in that immature state or a phase or whatever, you know, if we're, and just call it, you know, you can call it emotionally immature, you can call it spiritually immature. It's all valid. But that was an immature thing that he did. He lied. Yeah. And that was a dangerous thing to do. And people get hurt, right. Immature men make dangerous leaders. And boy, that's convicting for us as business leaders. Right? And I know that I'm not capable of any real maturity. I can't even be trusted with an adult calendar much. You know what I mean? My assistant does that for me. Well, and yeah, go ahead. But, you know, maturity is, it takes us back to our, you know, understanding our giftings, our mm-hmm. What did you say? Our identity, right? Our identity in Christ. What is our identity in Christ like? How would you, if someone came to you and was like, Hey Nate, man, what's this mean? Unpack this identity thing. How can I find my identity in Christ? 'cause I know you are tremendous at counseling and teaching this. Mm-hmm. This subject. 

[00:45:17] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. It's a great question. So the first step, the first step is understanding. We all share an identity. We all share an identity and of course then it diverges from there. Right? What's the identity you are made in his likeness? Mm-hmm. Male and female, right from the beginning. That's where the, that's where the enemy was. Like, Hey, you know what? It was an identity question, by the way. Right? In the, in the garden. We won't go there necessarily today 'cause there's so much to talk about. That's the first step, is accepting that you are a child of the most high God. Start there. Right? Start there. Right. And then it goes off from there because each identity has unique giftings. Mm-hmm. Right. In and, and, and through him. But I will say this because you touched on something that's really important. There's so many things that keep us from walking in our identity that Jesus talks about, that this is important to the conversation around that meekness that you were talking about, because our identity is rooted in love first. God's love. To us, and then God's love through us. And here's the thing about love, is we can't give away what we haven't received, right?

[00:46:23]
So you gotta receive it first. And Jesus speaks that. In fact, you know, the, remember the parable, the, the, the rich young ruler who was like, Hey, I did this, this and this, and I did all these things that, you know, are righteous. And then he's like, well, what must what, what else must I do? And we, you know, we quote that verse and say, well, Jesus told him to sell all this stuff right? And then come follow me. But we miss one critical part of that. One critical part of that story is where Jesus looks at him with love. He looks at him with love before he tells him to go sell all his things, because there was something that was blocking him, receiving his identity and living in it because he was holding on all these things. Yeah. Because he was thinking, that's what makes me who I am. Right. And had nothing to do with that. 

[00:47:12] Mike Baue
Yeah. That story. Terrified me coming up in business. And that story, I think, keeps people from really growing in Christ because they think, well, if I'm a Christian, I should be poor. I should be a missionary, I should be a poor missionary. I have to give up my wealth in order to be a, a real Christian. Sorry. Um, but that's, that's not true. The reason that he was instructed to give it up is because that's what he was holding onto. That was what was impeding him. That right. It was his issue. It was his stopgap, it was his mountain, it was his obstacle. Someone can be extremely wealthy and that's not their obstacle. So Christ isn't calling us to be poor, but to be poor in spirit. Right. And and meaning that we need him to fill our That's right to to, to make us whole. He's calling us to be generous without a doubt, and we can't. I love talking to you so much. I mean, we have this perverted idea of love too. Without the Holy Spirit. It's like, it, it's a marshmallow. It's, there's no nutri nutritive value. 

[00:48:21] Dr. Nate Salah
You know, it's like even if you slap chocolate and right, and and you can put a stick in, you can on it.

[00:48:27] Mike Baue
It's still not gonna satisfy you. Right? It's gonna be a puff. And love without the Holy Spirit, is it? There's not, it doesn't, it doesn't grow, right? We need meat. We need the protein. We need something, you know, substantial in order to feel actual love back from the love we give. The love we give can never be satisfied equal because we don't unless we have, unless we have the love of the Holy Spirit. Man. Now I got off in tangent there, man. Thank you. 

[00:48:59] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. No, man. This is, this is such an important, conversation to have because it explores these areas of life. And you know, this, this podcast is, you know, A Call to Leadership and business and family and life and, and putting all these things together. You talked about your spouse. And the aspect of when you were talking about, you know, being this, you know, this lion, right? Mm-hmm. And, and the lamb. And it's like, hey, you know what? Walking in that sometimes it means having a gentle response. 

[00:49:36] Mike Baue
Sometimes it means not saying anything at all. Right? I was talking with a friend of mine driving home from a show the other day, and we were talking about the relationship with our daughters. And I only learned this because of so many years of failure, but my daughter doesn't need me to be the lion. She and my wife doesn't need. She, they need to know that I am, but my behavior at home, I need to be the lamb. I need to be the one that brings peace. I need to be more empathetic than my wife. I need to be more peaceful than my kids. I need to be more loving. I need to be the most compassionate and most loving as the lion who protects my family. I need to embody that role, but I also, my wife has her giftings and her purpose in our marriage, and that's how God does it. But I'm still unpacking this and exploring it, but, but I believe that this is from God. That we, and during this conversation, God spoke. I believe, and I, and you might refute me, and, and I'm gonna seek Godly counsel on this, but I believe as a man appointed to be a man from birth and as a Christian leader of my household, my business and leadership in community, I must be the lion as the Lord is the lion of Judah. But I also need to be the lamb. Who is even more empathetic, even more grace filled. Yes, even more because to whom much is given, more much is required, and to whom even more is given. More is required, and I need to embody that in the marketplace. Come on, brother. That is hard. It's hard, man. 

[00:51:36] Dr. Nate Salah
With your team, with your client, with your suppliers, with your. With your detractors, with the trolls who are like, oh, you right, you stink. 

[00:51:46] Mike Baue
Your products are are horrible. Yeah. Business deals go south. Someone betrays your trust, right? Something happens in your community and you're betrayed and you're, or whatever. How do you respond to that? Man, nobody's perfect, you know? But here's the thing, what's beautiful about that? 

[00:52:00] Dr. Nate Salah
You know, say you have a relationship with a supplier or, or one of your outsources, right? I mean, it could be any number of things. You respond to an issue with grace doesn't make the problem go away. You still work on solutions and you figure out a way, man, it is a game changer. Yeah, there's a time, right? 

[00:52:30] Mike Baue
There's a time to be to, to wield righteous anger, but you better be sure it's righteous anger. 

[00:52:41] Dr. Nate Salah
And not yours. Amen. And even in that moment, grace abounds all the more, right? It's this, it's, it's almost unthinkable. And that's what's beautiful about the gospel because you think, this doesn't make sense. Jumbo shrimp doesn't make sense, but that's exactly what was happening up on that cross as he was being pinned. Yeah. And in agony, the first words that came out of his mouth. I've said it before you've said it. We've all said it. Father, forgive them for they know not what they do. 

[00:53:17] Mike Baue
Right. You know that, that story, that crucifixion story. Do you know, I was a, I was a lifelong Christian and I don't, I don't mind exposing myself, I was a lifelong Christian before I even understood what it mean or what, what it means. For Jesus to be the Lamb of God. It took me until probably my thirties, late thirties or forties. You know, I grew up in a church that we didn't, I guess we didn't teach that, and I wasn't a self feeder back then, but I didn't understand that. Jesus was the lamb who was slang. You know, the law said in order to be right with God, you have to do these things. You gotta sacrifice the bull and da, da da, and you gotta do all these things, right? It's the law and you gather the, the, the sheep and you're gonna slay the whatever. That was Jesus. And if you're listening today, I hope that if, if you, I know I had the question, and maybe you do too.

[00:54:16]
Jesus is the lamb who was slain, whose blood was, was slain, was spilled in atonement for our sin. I didn't put that together till I was in my probably thirties as a Christian because I, I like the lamb and that's when I think things started to be making sense. Right. I say that because like, I had that question and I never asked, but we need to ask questions. You know, the Pharisees, the Pharisees had, they had a great understanding of the law, but they didn't have Jesus. Why? 'cause they didn't ask questions, right? 'cause they thought they had, all the answers are right. 

[00:54:56] Mike Baue
They already knew what they knew. It's like, you know, in business and success, you don't succeed by going with what you know, right? You succeed, you grow by knowing what you don't know. Asking the questions, and you know that whole lion and lamb thing and the lamb being slain and Jesus being the lamb and the blood spilled for the atonement. That's a beautiful story and I like, it just doesn't make any sense, man.

[00:55:22] Dr. Nate Salah
And then likewise, in marketplace, in the industry, when we're in a board meeting or with a client or we're we're an employee or a team member or a partner, something is happening that doesn't make sense yet, we remember that we can walk in such a way that is asking questions rather than. Spitting out what, who, what we think are the right answers. And walking, not just from the question of pointing fingers, but walking from the question, do we truly, deeply desire to understand? Do we lay it at God's feet and represent him through the modeling of his love in Right. Every area of our marketplace experience.

[00:56:02] Mike Baue
Yeah. The team meeting, like who's present there? I'm okay, I'm there. I'm the team leader, I'm the, the boss. Mm-hmm. I'm the one holding the meeting. Did I invite Jesus to that meeting? Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:16] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. A hundred percent man. Right? A hundred percent. That, that, that mindful presence, whether, and if you're, if you're a laborer, if you're, if you're working at your, in your vocation and you're, you know, if you're pulling dents and you're a dent wizard, right is Jesus invited into that?

[00:56:36] Mike Baue
Right? My hope is that, is that people who are in Christ stop separating their, their Christian mindset and their Christian time with their secular time because, you know, we are not, we are in the world, but not of the world. Well, that's convicting, right? We have to be in the world because that's what God created for us to, to have dominion over, right? So we're in the world, but we're not, we not supposed to be of it. So how do we conduct our business? And I'm not a big, what would Jesus do? God, I, I love when people do that, but it's, it's like, what can Jesus do for me? Right? That's right. Right. And I know he's working out, but all that other stuff he's doing isn't my problem. My problem is have I identified my relationship with him and am I doing what he's convicted me to do? Or did I invite him to the boardroom? Do I, did I invite him to the bedroom? Did I invite him to, to the discipline with my kids? Did I, did, you know, I achieved such a level of freedom in my business when I started.

[00:57:48]
 Embodying Christian values. My Christian value is in the business and trusting people and allowing them to fail because Jesus has allowed me to fail. When I stopped micromanaging and saying, okay, go ahead. Listen, I want you to fail. I want you to learn. That's, you know, me telling you the answer. One of my managers or one of my businesses would call me almost weekly saying, well, what about this? What about this? And in the beginning I would say, alright, I think you should do this. And then this is an intentional long-term thing, right? So over some weeks I would say, well, what are your ideas? What do you think you should do? And then I would say, okay, those are great. Here's some other things to consider. Why don't we do this? And then some weeks later, thank you for bringing this to me. What would you like to do? Just changing the dialogue right. Then now it's kind of a joke because she'll call me, this is two years later, she'll call me with a problem and, and I'll say, I don't know. You're the manager. Figure it out. Right. And that leads me back to why are, are we praying for things that we already know the answer to and why are we not using love as the pinnacle of our mission statement? More good questions. 

[00:59:03]
Thanks Mike. Thanks for being here. We gotta keep doing this. I love it. Thank you, man. This fun stuff.

[00:59:10] Dr. Nate Salah

Thank you so much for supporting our program. We couldn't do it without you. I want to just take a moment to honor you in prayer. We don't want to build anything without you, God. We're not a business, not a family, not a future. So we invite you into every room we walk into this week, board rooms, living rooms, prayer rooms. Let Your Spirit lead us, let your voice guide us, and let your power move through us to bless everyone we encountered. We are yours in your holy name, amen.



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