A Call To Leadership

EP289: Blessed are the Meek with Joe Thompson and Travis Revelle

• Dr. Nate Salah

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What if the most powerful leaders are the ones who choose restraint over reaction? In this episode, we will unpack the radical strength of meekness as power under control and explain why it’s essential in leadership, business, and family. Through scripture and real-life stories, we challenge the ego-driven model of influence and offer a blueprint for leading with wisdom, emotional intelligence, and faith. Tune in to discover why the pause might be your greatest leadership move yet.

Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • Why meekness is power under control, not weakness
  • A 3-step spiritual framework for approaching business challenges
  • Emotional intelligence and long-term vision in leadership
  • Assertiveness vs. ego: How to speak last and lead best
  • How emotional maturity transforms your legacy and leadership

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[00:00:00] Travis Revelle
You have the power to do a lot of things, but you're choosing not to use that power because you're having faith in God that he's going to deliver for you, but you have that power, but because you're disciplined and you're faithful, you don't have to exercise that power. 

[00:00:18] Dr. Nate Salah
Continuing our series on what it means to walk in indestructible joy, the kind of life joy that does not have any hearing on our external circumstances, the precarious life as we talk about in this series, Joe and Travis are back on the show to look at it from a business perspective, from a life perspective, from a family perspective. What does Jesus mean in these clues of life and leadership that's worthy to be followed? I can't wait for you to listen in. I'm Dr. Nate Salah. This is A Call to Leadership, Travis, Joe. Hello, friends. How are you? Welcome, welcome back. Hello. Hello. We've been on this journey together as we uncover the possibility for living in a state of unshakeable, unbreakable joy. And as leaders, when issues happen and we have challenges arise when they're gonna happen, whether they're in business, whether they're in family, whether they're in life.

[00:01:28]
 The worthiness of our leadership, will hinge on how we approach all of the situations and challenges we face. So there's one thing that Jesus taught is, look, I wanna make you worthy to lead, and this is our baseline. We've talked a lot about being holy, being set apart for a divine purpose, a calling that's beyond ourselves, walking in Godly integrity. Really consecrating ourselves for that set apart life. And now we're going through each of these steps, if you will, right? Step one. Blessed are the poor in spirit. In other words, hey God, I'm gonna depend on you. I'm laying my life in your hands. Step one, step two, blessed are those who mourn. Blessed are those in other words, who say God. I need to lay my worries upon you and what truly, truly, pains me. And at the same time have empathy and compassion for those around me, whether it's in my work environment or it's in my home environment, in my community. And today is especially fun because we're going to uncover the third clue that I think stifles so many.

[00:02:49]
 It's so incredibly misunderstood, and at the end of it, I believe that our listener, as well as us, will have a newfound appreciation for this third instruction, this third beatitude, this third idea of what it means to walk in a life joy that's not dependent on external circumstances to stand firm in that strength is blessed, or the meek, the meek. It's an interesting term. Have you ever gone into a business meeting, a new launch, something where you're ready to take on competitive advantage, and you say, Team, today I'm gonna unload something on you that's gonna fire us up. You ready? We're gonna be meek. What happens in that room?

[00:03:44] Travis Revelle
I mean, if you don't put some context around. No context. Yeah. No, I mean, and it's you. You've lost the room lost. Especially if you're opening speeches. We've lost the room. It's one of my best ones. Right. Be meek. Right. 

[00:03:58] Dr. Nate Salah
Think about any leader. Think about the presidential elections. Yeah. Right. So let's talk it through why? Why is the initial response, like, are you serious? 

[00:04:08] Travis Revelle
It's just the vocabulary and I'm sure you're going to enlighten us on the Greek. Yeah. Word that was actually used that will position this in a different light for us. 

[00:04:19] Joe Thompson
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're getting smarter, right? 

[00:04:22] Travis Revelle
We know what's coming up. I've heard this story before, right? 

[00:04:26] Dr. Nate Salah
True story, right? Because meekness is often associated with weakness, right? I mean, they go hand in hand and yeah. I grew up with that. I grew up that, well, meek, that's not like a power move. Mm-hmm. That's not like strength of leadership. Who's gonna ever say, Oh yeah. I'm, I'm following you into the octagon, right? Or on the battleship or wherever it is. So, you know, why would Jesus say, well, you know, people would say then, well, you know, Jesus is, he wants you to, to surrender to the situation and okay. But that's not what this is saying at all. It's the exact opposite. No. 

[00:05:03] Travis Revelle
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Jesus, I mean, everybody says Jesus was a pacifist, right? But like, this is not a pacifist word at all. This is John Wayne. 

[00:05:14] Dr. Nate Salah
Yes, a hundred percent. 

[00:05:15] Travis Revelle
You know. What I mean? 

[00:05:17] Dr. Nate Salah
So here's what he says. He says, blessed are the meek meekness. It's been said, it is not weakness, it's power under control. And in, in this case would be power under God's control. And so what Jesus is saying and the Greek, thanks for that, tee up. Mr. Joe, the word here used here is pray us, which it represents. A strong horse. Imagine a stallion who, as you know, have you ever been around equestrian world? Horses are extremely strong. Even the ones who aren't very strong are strong. I mean, you get kicked by a horse, you go in trouble, you're in trouble, right? You may be gonna the hospital or worse, right? Yeah. But at the same time, there can be gentle animals. And what this word picture is, it's willingly bridled. It's saying, Hey, look, you know, I could destroy you, but I'm not, we're gonna work together. Another way that it was put by Dr. Jordan Peterson. He, he describes it as swords, sheathed. You've done some sword work, Joe, back in your day. Right. Explain to the, the listener, or the viewer what that means to have a sheathed sword. 

[00:06:30] Joe Thompson
Well. If your sword is in your sheath.

[00:06:33] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, what's a sheath? Some people don't even know what that is. 

[00:06:36] Joe Thompson
Oh, it, it's like the scabbed that you put your sword in.

[00:06:40] Dr. Nate Salah
Like a casing, yeah, it ca yep. Keeps, keeps, keeps you from cutting yourself. 

[00:06:44] Joe Thompson
Yeah. I mean, I mean, I did, I did, kendo, which we, we did, some sword training in there and even in some martial arts, when you bow and you put your fist in your hand, that's shielding weapon. Shielding weapon. Mm-hmm. So. When you take your sword out and you lay it in front of somebody, you always keep it sheathed. You don't point a blade at 'em, that's aggressive. So, you know, you keep it sheathed. It's a sign of respect and also a sign of there's a powerful instrument in here that's fascinating.

[00:07:16] Dr. Nate Salah
 Isn't it fascinating? Mm-hmm. You know, when you, when you break it down like that. Okay. That, because that's how Jesus's original listeners would've, would've understood that in the context because there was a lot of swords out there. Especially the Romans, right? And even his own followers, because many of them thought, Hey, we are gonna overthrow those Romans, right? Mm-hmm. And so that connotation, how does that then speak to you? How does that reframe this, this concept? 

[00:07:47] Joe Thompson
I mean, when you think of it in the context of Jesus and all that he accomplished, I mean, 2000 years later, we're still talking about his words, talking about his teachings, and he used this controlled power as a way of bringing people to him because there was strength in him. People could tell there was strength in him, but he did it in a way that was more, you know, that was less warrior like, and it was more fatherly shepherding leadership, like Shepherd carries a a, a staff right? So you can either hook your lambs and bring them to you, or you can fight off a wolf. Right? And that's kind of who he was. He was that strength control. Like you knew if he had to handle himself, he could, but he didn't have to because the way he lived his life. Make sense? 

[00:08:47] Travis Revelle
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, it's choosing faith over control. And if it kind of, you know, you go with the other two beatitudes that we've gone through and this one is right, you have the power to do a lot of things right, but you're choosing not to use that power because you're having faith in God that he's going to, he's going to deliver for you, but you have that power. But because you're disciplined and you're faithful, you don't have to exercise that power. 

[00:09:16] Dr. Nate Salah
It speaks, it speaks in all areas of life. And when you even talk about, okay, from the business perspective, because there are many situations in your business day and my business day that are unexpected, challenging situations, and even going through these as a, we've talk about in our, our community, our G3 community, as we go through these beatitudes, this checklist, if you will, this systematic checklist of, okay, how should I respond to these situations? And so like even these three, and we'll go through, of course, all of them, but even these three, if you're facing a high challenge situation in, in business, and okay, let's, let's just talk about these three steps. Step one, God, it's your business. I'm a steward, I'm a shepherd. The situation is happening. I surrender my own understanding to you.

[00:10:10]
 Help me to better understand how to deal with this situation. Right? That's step one, right? That's blessed are those who are poor in spirit. Step two, blessed for those who mourn. If there's a client or someone or a team member who is in this angst or in this challenge, maybe I should have a little empathy and compassion before I move into judging the situation. Step in with, yeah, I'm so sorry that this situation is happening and that you're experiencing it. Right? Step three, don't just come in blazing my weapon. Power under control. 

[00:10:42] Travis Revelle
This one speaks to a lot of, you know, your emotional intelligence, the eq, like as a leader, right? To, to be able to be, to pause, right? Like to pause, let the emotion wash over you before you make the decision, right? And, and think more of what is, how does this align with the long-term vision of the company, right? What's this decision that I need to make that's going to align long-term, not short-term? And I think that. That can be counter-cultural to a business, because a lot of times in business, people are focused on being bold, being assertive, right? Really stepping into the limelight, wanting that limelight on yourself, and this is the exact opposite of that. It's more long-term vision. Emotional intelligence, not really wanting the spotlight on yourself, but more of a servant leadership type of mentality, right? Like how can I, how is this going to, this decision is going to affect my team, my vision for my company, and my customers? You're, you're taking all of these different things into perspective before you make that reaction 

[00:11:47] Dr. Nate Salah
And that pause is a game changer. It's huge. This blessed are the meek in that pause and I wanna hear what you have to say about this, Joe. 'cause you're a pausing guy. We know you're a thinker. And that's a compliment. It's, I have made, it sounded like a compliment. I felt kind until I said. 

[00:12:02] Joe Thompson
This is a compliment. 

[00:12:05] Dr. Nate Salah
Because sometimes people think, oh, delayed reaction means in, ineffectiveness or indecision, right? And so that's not the case here at all. It's saying, Hey, you know what? It's quite possible I'm gonna make a brash decision. I dunno about you two. In the last 50 plus years of my life, I've made a ton of really boneheaded decisions because I did not pause. Mm-hmm. I did not walk in the meekness of saying, you know what, yeah, you got power control it, bro. 

[00:12:36] Travis Revelle
I especially think young leaders, and this I think would be very beneficial for young leaders to really learn. Right. Because I, I, when I think back on my career. I was the most brash when I was young because I felt the pressure to need to react and have a answer right away. Right. Because if not, then you don't know what's going on. Right. And so I think, I think I made a lot of mistakes in my leadership journey early on because I didn't pause. The older I've gotten. The more I realized that whether you have an answer in 30 seconds or 30 minutes right there, there's no right. Two weeks from now, nobody's gonna know right, how, how quick that, that was delivered. They're gonna understand was it effective, right? And the effectiveness is more important than the speed of, of that decision.

[00:13:20] Dr. Nate Salah
And sometimes you need time to prepare. And this is important too, in this, in this meekness is I've anticipated even just recently anticipated some feedback on a project that was being worked on, and I knew part of that feedback would, would be, not favorable, right? Just the project was, it worked, but there were some aspects of it that didn't. Preparing for that, because I know that sometimes I will tend to, Hey, I'm just gonna deal this with it right now. I'm gonna go through this list. I'm gonna knock it all out and get it outta the way. Don't when you get that message about the project, don't do anything. You can respond and say, I received it. I'm gonna definitely, you know, make sure I, I, I review this and acknowledge it, but don't do anything because yes, you have power, but you need to keep that sword sheathed until the appropriate time. 

[00:14:09] Joe Thompson
So a lot of times I have, someone will just call me outta the blue and ask me a question, you know, about their business or whatever. 'Cause I'm working with them and they do want that answer like right now. But any decision you make is a, is a stone in a pond, right? Makes a ripple effect. And I think the best business people, especially consultant types, read all of the ripples. Like, where is this gonna take us a week from now, month from now, a year from now, et cetera. So I always take time to contemplate those kind of questions because I know on, on the spot, like especially if you're putting out a fire. You're not thinking about the long-term effect of what you're gonna make a decision on. You're just trying to get this under control and taken care of. And it does take some discipline. And I think meekness speaks a lot to discipline, 'cause it does take discipline to say, Hey, you know, stop, let me think about it, and I'm gonna give you a call back. And then, you know, you have to analyze what the problem is because. Oftentimes, what solves a problem today creates a bunch of trouble for you down the line.

[00:15:25]
 And sometimes it's better just to lose the money right now, right? Instead of making a decision that costs you even more in the future. Or you know, maybe you lose a little reputation right now, but you don't make a too harsh of a move and you kinda ruin your reputation forever. So it's a balancing act, of course, but I think discipline is the, is the key. If anyone wants my knee-jerk reaction from something, like I will never give it. I will never just like blurt out what I think the answer is. It's just not part of who I am or how I think about it. I never, ever associated it with meekness until we started talking about, I, you know, I would've said, if anything, people probably think, oh, well, you know, it's pretty. Of him to shut us down right now. You know, we got a problem here. I wouldn't have thought of it as meekness. I would've thought of it more as being disciplined in my answers. And you know, this is, this is all part of that. You know, when Jesus started telling people about this, it was complete opposite to everything they knew. Right? And they're all kind of sitting around listening to it, and their minds are blown because it's the and, and I hope. Either through these podcasts or our own leaderships that we're making some kind of impact on business. That it doesn't have to be the status quo that it's been, that we can exercise these kind of rules and these ways of thinking, and maybe change it for future generations. That you're not screaming at each other in a conference room anymore. 

[00:17:02] Dr. Nate Salah
And like Jesus's leadership and brought, I'm glad you brought that up. We're also going to be questioned. When we start using these constructs, if you think about it, even then, because even then early in the ministry he was, people were saying, this might be the Messiah, right? This guy is doing, you know, he's performing miracles, he is the things he's saying and, and how he's gathering others. And they viewed the Messiah that we call the, you know, the Greek for that as Christos, anointed one as a liberator. So you can think of it like, okay, well they're in oppression right now by a liberator called Rome. And he comes out, and this is his, this is his big manifesto, right? And he says, blessed are the meek. And it's like, well, that doesn't sound like liberation. Mm-hmm. That doesn't sound like we're gonna throw off our oppressors. And in our, in our world today, you come into a, a business environment. That's your tone in your tempo. Again, same thing. People are going to be thrown off, but I can tell you this, they may be thrown off, but once they understand that there's something so much more vibrant to the journey when you're not just following the status quo, but you're walking in that. Godly consecration of real purpose, real joy, real meaning you become unstoppable.

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[00:19:46] Joe Thompson
It's hard to understand the power of peace, like being peaceful like a peaceful person doesn't seem like a powerful person. But you know, we actually have someone that was unearth and proved us wrong. So when we think in those ways. Those are just old constructs. Like, that's just a way of thinking that we, that we don't have to bring into our business or our family. And, you know, even our, our mental health, we don't have to find an aggressive way to handle things. 

[00:20:19] Dr. Nate Salah
We don't. Yeah. And, and here's the other part about that. It's, you're talking about the ripples. It's the long game. See, Jesus is not focused on the short game. Only now there's a short game, but he's focused on the infinite game. Part of that infinite game is what he says right here. Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth. In other words, hey, you know what? If we don't go in slashing and just making these judgments and decisions that are off the cuff and, and at the hip all the time, you know, most entrepreneurial life is ready, fire, aim, right? He says there's a reward for that. You got this in the long run, you got more than you can ever hope for. We start here. It's a complete 180 on how we generally approach problem solving. Yeah. So if we're taken to the next step, someone listening is like, okay, well, all right, sounds great. I'm in. How do I do it?

[00:21:19]
 Because you don't know my situation. Truth is we don't know individual situations, but we've been through many of them, and sometimes without meekness and sometimes. Meekness, as you said earlier, Joe, having discipline is a, is a factor, right? It's a factor in that. However, it's not the only factor, and we need to talk through what it means to walk in meekness when we are being tested, when we're being powerful, yet gentle, influential, yet unassuming.

[00:21:58] Joe Thompson
Yeah, I've, I've stumbled there quite a bit because sometimes, and I think it's just, you know, there's, there's probably some human nature too. You can push someone so far until they kind of unleash. And I think along my career there's been times where I've executed my authority or power to get something done, and it definitely wasn't in a meek. Peaceful power under controlled way. You know, it was very in your face, kind of aggressive. Like this is how it has to be. So, yeah, I mean, even, even taking this concept into a boardroom is so foreign. Yeah. It's just, it's, I can't even get a good word for it. It's so, no one's doing this. No one's practicing this as a practice. It may happen, you know, there's intentionality habit, but the intentionality of everyone in the room practicing this, like what a great discussion it would be. Right? Yeah. Like without the politicking, and yeah, you're stallion. Let's bridle you.

[00:23:05] Travis Revelle
I mean, I don't think he's saying not to be assertive, right? I think it comes back to, you know, picking and choosing when to be assertive, but not letting your ego. Really drive that. It's a wisdom. It's being assertive in the right position. It's usually the how. It's the how. Right? You know? So if somebody, you know, if you talk about walking into a boardroom, and I've walked into a lot of boardrooms and it's been very contentious, and everybody who wants to speak first, they all, you know, everybody wants to shoot their shot and just get it out. In this scenario, it's the person who speaks last, right? It lets everybody get all the emotional yelling and screaming and get that out. And then when everybody, there's that pause. That's when you assert yourself because you've got some wisdom, right? You're thinking you can, you can utilize what other people have said, understanding their viewpoints, but you still know what needs to happen, and it's not about, again, I think the meekness is, it's not about you.

[00:23:59]
 It's not about your ego, it's not about your limelight, it's about the decision that's being made being the best decision for those, you know, road, you know, the roadmap, right? The long-term vision of the company, the customers, the employees. And I think that if you always are looking at it through that lens. How does this affect my vision? How does this affect my customers? How does this affect my employees? You're making the right decision based on those things, right? You're not making it based on, how does this make me look good? How does this make me, you know, the man. That's where meekness comes into play in this situation. And I think if you look at servant leadership, which we've talked about a lot. This is kind of the cornerstone of servant leadership, right? That you're putting your employees, you're putting your customers, you're putting their needs ahead of your own personal needs, because that's going to drive your business forward in a profitable manner.

[00:24:49] Dr. Nate Salah
That's good. It's good. It illustrates the possibility for this that not only does it sound good on paper, it actually is executable, and not only from the perspective of, oh, it's a good thing to do, it's good for the bottom line. It's good. You know, there's people think, oh, servant leadership. That's another thing about servant leadership. People think it's, again, weakness in leadership. Oh, what do you mean? I've gotta serve? People are gonna walk all over me. They're gonna take advantage of me as a leader. No, they're gonna recognize that you don't need to posture. They're gonna recognize that you don't need to pose. They're gonna recognize that you don't have threats around you that are encumbering your decision-making. They're gonna recognize that you stand firm in supporting and serving the needs of all your stakeholders. And the mission matters more than anyone individual, including yourself. 

[00:25:39] Travis Revelle
And the thing about servant leadership is that there, there is a lot of accountability in servant leadership. A hundred. Right? Like if you work in an organization that is really built upon servant leadership, you are held accountable much more often because it is the good of the greater, not the good of the one. And if you do something that is good for you, but not good for anybody else, like. There's also not only held accountable by your leader, but you're held accountable by your peers, right? There's the group think that starts to happen. It's like, no, that is not how this organization works. We do not focus on that. So I think there's actually more accountability, and again, I don't want people to get lost in this meekness and thinking, oh, well I never, I never assert myself. No. You assert yourself when needed, when it's affecting. The pillars of the organization. You assert yourself and you bring them back in alignment with that vision and customers, and colleagues. Right? And that's where you have to draw the line. You just don't focus on my ego or or my power. That's what you're giving up. 

[00:26:40] Dr. Nate Salah
It's controlled power, right? It's not the absence of power, it's the application of power under God's control. That's the game changer. And I'm glad you made that distinction. So people say, Oh, well that just means I've gotta walk around gentle and everything, and quiet and passive. No. Was Jesus like that? Definitely not. No. I mean, he called everything out. Yeah. But he did it in a way. He didn't have to exert it from the perspective of, oh, this is about me, and that's what you, that's what you're talking about.

[00:27:15] Travis Revelle
I mean, in all reality, Jesus could have snapped his fingers and destroyed the whole earth. You know what I mean? Like he could have forced his will onto anybody with a snap of his fingers, right? I mean, he was God, so he, he could have done that. He chose not to, right? He chose to speak to people and give them parables and, and teach them lessons and help them uncover it themselves rather than force it upon them.

[00:27:39] Dr. Nate Salah
Even with Pilate, I mean, think about it. He's standing in front of Pilate, and Pilate's like, I have the power. He says, I have the power to take your life. And he what did, what is Jesus's response? You only have the power given to you. By God, right, bro. I mean, here's what he could have said, bro. Do you know how many tens of thousands of people have been following me that all I have to do is say, Hey, we're just gonna sack Jerusalem. Yeah. That they would just give their lives to watch you and all your soldiers just dissipate. It could happen today. 

[00:28:09] Joe Thompson
Yeah. Jesus pulls the, you know who I am?

[00:28:10] Travis Revelle
Right? Do you know who my dad is? You know who my dad is. 

[00:28:15] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. He could have, I thought, I think about that from a, from a military strategic zealous perspective. He had, after three years, he had the support, like all the zealots. Mm-hmm. Were like, Hey, just let us know when. Just say when. Say when. It's time. Yeah. It's time. That's. He's talking about. Mm-hmm. It's like, you know what? You know when the time is, it's when it's God's time. Mm-hmm. And that's when God's power will be exerted. And guess what? It's not about a city. It's not about real estate. You know, the only real estate that really matters is your heart. That's the real estate that matters most, and that's the real estate Jesus is teaching us to fight for and to have our swords sheath so that we can protect the hearts of those. We're called to lead, to walk worthily. That is the possibility for inheriting the earth for Jesus. And that's the only road that he's saying to go on now. That's business family. Alright, so you're not in a boardroom, you're at home. How does meekness look like when we are with our families, patience, calmness firm, but gentle guidance?

[00:29:27] Travis Revelle
I think how Joe said, like when you think of like a traditional father figure, right? Not going to raise your voice, you don't need to, right? Because when Dad says it's time to go. Everybody knows it's time to go right? And so I've got 8-year-old twins and right, so this is gonna be challenging. But what I have noticed to be more. Successful in parenting is not yelling or screaming because that's just cutting off communication. But I actually like kneel down so I can look them eye to eye and have a conversation with them, right? Like treat them like people 'cause they're people, right? They have feelings and stuff like that and say, Hey, this is why we need to do X, Y, and Z. So I think having the patience, I think meekness is. A perfect example of your traditional father, leave it to beaver. You know what I mean? Type of, of just thinking archetype, beaver. Yeah. Like, like that to me is somebody who is demonstrating meekness. But you still know that if you, if beaver gets outta line, you know what I mean? Like, there's gonna be something that's gonna happen. He's gonna get in trouble, but he's not getting screamed at, you know what I mean? Like it's, I'm a disappointed in you. Right. You know, you made the wrong choice and this is why, and I'm gonna teach you a life lesson based on that. 

[00:30:41] Dr. Nate Salah
Leadership in family. If we use the, the pres example of the, the strong horse willingly being bridled in leadership, you know, oftentimes it's tough. It's tough to, you know, you talked about ego, it's tough to swallow your pride, right? It's like even that term in and of itself, it's a servant submission when, you know. You know what? I can just really wield some, some angst and influence here. But again, it goes back to the long game. Like what's the long game with my family? What's the long game with my kids? What's the long game with my spouse? What's the long game with my parents and my brothers and sisters, or my close friends? What's the long game with them? You know? Am I going to model what it means to serve in strength? That's what Jesus is saying. Mm-hmm. And I know, you know, we face all kinds of challenges. When it comes to family in doing that, you know, in business, yes. It's challenging. Family's a whole nother animal, right?

[00:31:46] Joe Thompson
I mean, they don't have to listen. No, they don't have to. 

[00:31:48] Dr. Nate Salah
Listen. You can't, you can't serve someone termination papers at home be like, well, I mean, in some ways. In some ways, right? But you know, if it's not a. You can't tell your kids, Hey, you know, you're fired. It's not a fit. we, you know, we, we, we really enjoyed, you working with us here for the time you had us, but you're going out for adoption, right? We're gonna take you back. Yeah, exactly. It doesn't happen like that. Yeah. Yeah. That's how back to. The, the centering, you know, the centering of how we approach this journey is, a lot of what you guys have been talking about. You know, start with the pause, man. Just start with the pause. And sometimes the pause is a moment, sometimes it's a day, sometimes it's a week. And lay it out. Lay out, Hey, you know, it's a big decision. I don't wanna approach this in a way that causes harm. I want my power, the power I have in this situation to be used wisely, and I need some time so that I can make sure that it's under God's control. 

[00:32:53] Joe Thompson
This is probably the pause is the difference between a disagreement and an argument. Yeah. Because or worse. Yeah. Or worse. Yeah. Yeah. But like, you know, sometimes, like if my wife says something to me and I disagree with it. That pause that, just that second, when you don't have that knee-jerk reaction, then the other person feels like, oh, well they're, they're taking time with me. And they wanna discuss, you know, whatever this is. That's a huge help for. Anyone who's married, or anyone who has kids, or just anyone in your family. I mean, this is the same thing with a brother or a sister. You're more likely to rumble with them a little bit, I think. Mm-hmm. Growing up together. But as you become adults and you disagree with like, you know, how should we do this? How should we do that? You take that pause and that separates the, disagreement from, you know, an argument that can go on and on and on. 

[00:33:51] Travis Revelle
Yeah. Yeah. I think it stops the emotional, if I'm getting into an argument, we're arguing it's gonna start out at level one. It's gonna go to level two of emotions, right? Level three, level four. It's gonna keep ratcheting up. You know what I mean? And every time I respond to you, you're gonna respond back. And I think that pause stops that, right? It stops it, whatever level you're at, and maybe brings it down a minute, because then, like you said, the other person, maybe they think you're actually listening to them, right? Maybe you are, maybe you're not. But just the pause in itself. Stops the emotional ratcheting up and allows you to at least find a homeostasis point to have a discussion. The pause is key. 

[00:34:31] Dr. Nate Salah
It is. It's pivotal. It's pivotal. And I, as you're both talking about it, I think about all those moments where a pause, you pause would've been the right move. Yeah. Hindsight, I'm talking 10, 20 plus years ago. Yeah. Kinda like, oh man, how many, how many 

[00:34:48] Travis Revelle
Physical altercations would've been stopped if you would've just paused? 

[00:34:55] Dr. Nate Salah
Oh, Lauren, right. And Jesus is bringing us back to that. Mm-hmm. You know, he's through these, through these beatitudes, through these lessons on what it truly means to walk in a life joy. That is so, sound, so stable, so strong that others are irresistibly drawn to you to say, man, there's something different about you. All of these issues and challenges you're facing. You're not phased in the same way that the rest of us are. Why? Because Jesus's teachings are guiding me to a whole nother transformative way to envision how life can work and work fulfilled, work with God's presence flowing in and through us. I want some of that. 

[00:35:50] Joe Thompson
I wanna touch on what Travis said, like how many altercations. could have been saved with just a pause. You know, when I was younger, I fought, I got in fights a lot. 

[00:36:02] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. 

[00:36:02] Joe Thompson
I remember. So it felt like at the time that, you know, you're, you're almost building a resume. Like when I'm older, I tell people I knocked out 30, 30 grown men. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Yeah. But what's weird is when people see you, they don't see the fights on you. Like they don't see the, the brawls that you've been in. They don't see, but they do notice like what kind of person you are. Are, are you meek? You know, they'll notice that, are you poor in spirit? They'll get a feeling of that and, you know, it becomes this, this, this complete change in how, you know, your, your emotional immaturity. Leaves you. Mm-hmm. You know, when you're young and then you come into adulthood and you're, more emotionally sound that these are the things that people see on you. These are the things people will relate to. No one relates to, like where I grew up and how I grew up and getting in fights. Very few people I ever talked to relate to that, but everyone relates to treating them kind. Mm-hmm. Right. Being humble. When, when you can be humble and recognizing all the times that you failed at it are, I think a key part of this.

[00:37:21]
 Because you can be some, you can be something else by making different decisions as you learn more and more. Right? And I always go back to the be holy journey. I know I've made a lot of better decisions since starting that. Not that I've made 'em all right. I mean the, it hasn't been a hundred percent like great decision-making. But thinking about it, thinking about these beatitudes, when I'm in a situation, it does transform like your, your life and who you are. Mm. Like there is a transformation there. I feel it in myself. I see it in myself. And this one really just touches base with me, the being meek because being, I have been a overtly aggressive person. My entire life. Right? And then we get into this, and you're like, Hey, you know, let's bridle that. Mm. Power. Let's, I read something the other day, it said, never let a loyal employee get to, I don't care anymore. Mm. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And applying this like to your employees, you know, that's a huge way of not letting that happen, because that happens a lot. I mean, that happens a lot in companies. people don't recognize who really is doing what, and the loyal, passionate person seems like they're complaining all the time, you know, and then they're dismissed. But if you took the time, if you took the pause and you really listened and you got an understanding of this, and this is the way you approached your employees. I don't think you would lose any of 'em due to a management, no, quote unquote. 

[00:39:04] Dr. Nate Salah
No, 'cause you move from an unpredictable anger where people walk in fear because they're not sure what your response is gonna be because you constantly do act in a way that is not power under control to someone who is respected. Because of your ability to handle situations. As you had said earlier, Travis, in an emotionally intelligent way that not only guides everyone to a better future state, a better outcome also helps them to rise and how they handle their challenges. 

[00:39:42] Travis Revelle
People crave consistency. They wanna know, you know what I mean? Not knowing how somebody's gonna react to a situation or not knowing if you have a job, right? Like that's an uneasy feeling. Nobody, nobody wants to be in that high. I mean, that just ratches up the pressure and the anxiety. You know, if you're a calming force and you're predictable and how you react, people wanna work for you. 'Cause you're providing consistency and safety. And at the end of the day, safety is the main thing as human beings that we have to have first, right? Like is, is you've gotta have safety. So provide it for your employees. There'll be long-term assets to your organization. Yeah. 

[00:40:18] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, this has been really exciting, and I know someone listening has been blessed by it. It's equally challenging as we move into number four, the next time we meet. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. We're gonna be talking a lot about what it means. To do what's right in the sight of God. So excited about that 'cause I know we'll be further inspired, challenged, encouraged. Always good to have you guys. 

[00:40:52] Joe Thompson
Good to be here. 

[00:40:53] Travis Revelle
Good to be here. Thanks. 

[00:40:56] Joe Thompson
Thanks, guys. 

[00:40:57] Dr. Nate Salah
We did it. Again, thank you so much for being a part of our program. We thank you, and we couldn't do it without you. If you've been blessed by this show, we would just ask that you give us an unfiltered review and share with the world how God is speaking to you through A Call to Leadership. You can do it on Apple or any of the podcast platforms, A Call to Leadership, and we thank you again. God bless you.





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