A Call To Leadership

EP291: God's Light Shines in the Darkness with Chaz Horn

• Dr. Nate Salah

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What if your breaking point was actually your turning point? In this episode, Chaz Horn shares how adversity, loss, and near-suicide led him to discover true identity and unshakable joy in Christ. Learn how processing pain with God can unlock purpose, courage, and healing. Tune in for the moment that changed everything.


 Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • A divine interruption that stopped Chaz from ending his life
  • How one walks around the block began a journey from obesity and depression to health and joy
  • Understanding fear, courage, and your true identity in Christ
  • The “DAVID” framework for processing emotions and healing from deep pain
  • Why your life is full because of challenges, not in spite of them

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

About Chaz Horn
Chaz is a speaker, coach, and business leader whose journey through adversity has shaped his mission to inspire others. From battling depression, obesity, and near loss to discovering faith, joy, and resilience, Chaz helps people embrace their God-given identity. He equips leaders and communities to turn trials into strength and live with purpose.
 

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[00:00:00] Dr. Nate Salah
Even if it's adversity in full denial of God and his purpose, he still takes us back with open arms. Not only that, the restoration elevates us even higher than we were before we denied him. The struggle is real. When we face our infirmities, when we face our challenges, where do we turn? Well, I've invited Chaz Horn onto the program to go over and share the journey of strengthening as a leader. We're going to unpack some heavy-duty stuff and really embrace how God is preparing us for the fight ahead. Can't wait for you to listen in. I'm Dr. Nate Salah. This is A Call to Leadership. Chaz, welcome to the show. Great to be here. Yeah, man. So we're gonna jump right into this conversation around adversity. I've heard that adversity is, is not necessary for growth. Is that true or false? 

[00:01:14] Chaz Horn
I don't know anyone who hasn't. Who has not faced adversity? Who is in a place that's above and beyond mediocrity? Hmm. I don't know of one, and I don't, I don't see, think you could see one person in the Bible who hadn't gone through extreme cases of adversity. I mean, look at the disciples. I believe all of them were martyred except one, maybe, but, right. Yeah. So they, they set the standard. Jesus sets the standards. That's all as gets my attention. Look what he went through. 

[00:01:48] Dr. Nate Salah
That's right. The way I see, I tend to see adversity is strengthening your struggle muscles, right? There's a, certain muscle group that can only be strengthened, strengthened through tension. In fact, I mean, that's what the human body is. There's really no way to even cheat. I don't know if you've ever worked out exercising a, in a gym or wherever maybe there was a, you know, I used to triathlon and marathon and strength training more recently and, there's a lot of tension and adversity. In that, in the strengthening process. And yet we tend to have a much different view on adversity, like as if it's the enemy. Yep. I bet you've done that. You, you've, you've, we've been there, done that. Right. We, let's, let's, let's unpack it. Let's unpack adversity and maybe by the end of the conversation we'll be like, yeah, where is it? Is that the best you can bring it on? 

[00:02:46] Chaz Horn
Yeah. I, you just, I just had a, a video clip of my mind from Forrest Gump with, captain Dan on top of the mask at the storm yelling at God. Is this all you've got? 

[00:02:57] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, exactly. Do you remember that movie? I do remember that. Oh, yeah. I, I bet. Yes. It's a classic, classic. And, and we've, you know, one, I think one thing about that, that movie that is connecting is that there's a little bit of that in all of us, like we want, that's a deep statement, so it can, we can, we can possibly unpack some of that. However, I want to start with. Your journey of adversity, because this, we're not just talking about this platonically, we're not talking about this from a theoretical perspective or construct. We're talking about this from life. Mm-hmm. Reality. And oftentimes on the other side of it, in your case, in your journey, you've been down that dark, lonely road. 

[00:03:42] Chaz Horn
Yep. Many times, because I made a choice that took me there, other times where God was wanting to. Really refine things, and it's just like, well, let me go back to what you're saying about, you know, strength or training and whatnot. Well, let's think about a rubber band. A rubber band is not effective unless you pull it apart. That's when you can. We used to have rubber band wars when I was growing up with these red, red, red rubber bands, all the time. You just twist it like a rifle. But working out, I remember I was looking in the mirror at this. Fat, depressed guy. He was glaring at me. And at that moment, I was pretty obese. You know, at that moment, I could have gotten the dopamine hit eating a donut, but I chose to walk around the block. So when we faced adversity and when I faced that myself, they're looking in the mirror. Around 21 years ago or so, I, threw away the donuts and took a walk around the block. So a lot of times it's like we're so overwhelmed with what we're facing and we're trying to get through it like that, which doesn't happen. And so that took me a long time to get to the place where I got healthy, started eating better, but it just started with that. What do they, maybe it's some African proverb.

[00:05:10] 
The journey to a thousand Miles begins with the first step. I probably butchered that a little bit, but it's true. It's about that first step, and so, in my life. That's just an example of something where I got to a place because of I was, food was a drug, and I just consumed things. I had lost my mom, I had lost my dad. I went through a divorce. I was the top-performing sales rep. I ended up getting fired from the company. I was doing everything that I shouldn't be doing, and eating lots of food was one of those things, and eating like right before bed. But through that journey. I got to a place where I'm healthy, and now I have joy, which has replaced the depression. I'm in the best shape of my life at 61, and I have a six-pack, which I learned through intermittent fasting. You wanna hear a cool story? Yeah, so we talk about adversity, and in 2020, I got extremely sick. I was in bed, literally five, six months now. Yeah, I got outta bed to use the bathroom, but it was, it was a major endeavor.

[00:06:18]
 I didn't know whether I'd be able to keep my business at the time, and I just got to a place, it's like, okay, God, I don't know what's gonna go on, but take my business, take everything. But it was in that moment, I don't remember how many months in, by doing a ice bath, I was able to work four hours a day, and then I again went back into bed 12, 4, 14 hours a day. But one day when I was laying in bed. Tears started rolling down my cheeks, and it was tears of joy because my focus went from, I'm sick, I can't do anything. I can't. I couldn't even talk. I had this cough that lasted for like a year and a half, and at that moment I went from focusing on other things I didn't have and I couldn't do to all the things that I get to do and all the things that I have. That's where joy comes from when we realize that. And so I had tears of joy rolling down my cheek, Nate, because. I was thinking, I can see, I can hear, I can taste, I can feel, I was thinking of all the things that I had, and if it wasn't for that adversity, for that challenge, for that being sick, I wouldn't have started experiencing that joy. And so that's one of the things about being sick, that God helped me better understand. Adversity and joy during adversity. And back to the intermittent fasting. I remember going in for a doctor's appointment later in the year. He's like, jazz, what are you doing, man? You're ripped. Like, I don't know. I didn't even know what intermittent fasting was, but because I lost like 19 pounds being sick, then. Yeah.

[00:08:07]
 Then I found out, oh, if you don't eat for 16 hours a day, that's intermittent fasting. So I hadn't been doing the intermittent fasting, not knowing, but now it's a regular part of my schedule. So that was a bonus of being sick. So you gotta look for those gifts in the moment when you're embracing what God has for you. There's a, a verse. It's the message. Romans 12:1. It says, Take your everyday, ordinary life. You're eating, sleeping, going to work life and place it before God is an offering. Embracing what he does for you. That's, that was difficult for me to understand that embracing what he does for you and focus your attention on him, and you'll be changed from the inside out. That's where God wants to work on us from the inside out. 

[00:08:59] Dr. Nate Salah
Amen. Man, when you tap into. The essence of God's not only plan and purpose, but the gift. You mentioned the gift. And a lot of us, we, we tend to look at the word present and the present. It's a gift, right? That's the moment now, right? It's a gift. You have a gift. Right now it's called the present. And when you talk about the gratitude and appreciation for what I do have. Rather than focusing on all the things I don't have, it changes you. Mm-hmm. It changes you. And this is what we're talking about, perspective and, and forget about all of the extra to be able to breathe. To take a breath. I mean, think about that, Chaz. Just to be able to take a deep breath for so many people. Perhaps you have emphysema. Perhaps you have a lung disease and you can't. Somebody right now would be saying, if I could only take the breath that you can take, I would, I would give up a thousand dollars. I would give up whatever it is to take that breath. Or someone right now who says, you know, when I look around and I see how beautiful this earth is, the blues and the greens and all of the different colors, and I get to use my eyes, someone. Right now might be saying, Hey, that's a gift. I've been blind my whole life.

[00:10:33]
 You have to describe it to me. Don't forsake the gift. Don't forsake the gift, and, and whatever it might be in life, it might be, and it's the simplest things. Mm-hmm. But what happens when we turn our focus away from all the things that we think we should have had to the things we do? Right. This is life-changing because what it does is you mentioned joy, it restores the joy that was presented to you when God came into your life. And said, I am here. I love you. Let's fellowship. It's a whole nother level, like you said, don't we? You said it when we first got started. Don't settle for mediocrity. Because mediocrity is saying what? It's a, it is what it is, and I'm just stuck in this mess, right? No, bro.

[00:11:38] Chaz Horn
You alluded to something that reminds me of a scene from Kung Fu Panda’s master when he said yesterday is history. Tomorrow's a mystery today is. The present. And that's why we call it the gift. I think I, I butchered that, but when you were saying that, I was just thinking that through my, through my head. And it's right. It's so easy to take things for granted. And I have, for much of my life, I still do. But when you go back to the adversity and you're going through things, it gives you perspective. If you don't go through adversity. It's kind of like, refining gold. I think they, you know, heated up, scrape off the impurities, heated up, scraping off the impurities like in the crucible. And I think back in the old days, they would have to see the reflection of the gold, see themselves for it to be pure. And that's what God does for us. Or if you go to, John 15, I believe it is, Jesus talks about the vine in the branches, and sometimes he. Prunes things, you know, cuts 'em off because we need that. And that could be painful, but having that perspective and just thinking about Paul writing much of the New Testament, I mean, he did that behind bars and chains. Think about that. Yeah. And he's talking about considering it pure joy. It is like that's mind-boggling. I don't know where I would be if I was thrown in prison and in shackles and chains. I don't know if I would be singing praises and worshiping God like Paul, but it really gives me perspective and understanding that he went through so much, you know, from persecuting, killing Christians to praising God after that Damascus road experience. 

[00:13:29] Dr. Nate Salah
There's so many instances you're talking about in scripture that are not even up to interpretation when it comes to how our position is our heart position is toward adversity. It brings me to ma Matthew. We've been studying in our, in our G three community, we've been studying the Beatitudes where Jesus talks about joy and he starts out with. Blessed are, of course, in our community, we've been sharing about how that word in the Greek is MCC carious. And mcc carious means having a life joy that's not dependent on external circumstances. It's literally free from earthly care or worry. That's the kind of joy that Jesus like is available to you, and I'm gonna teach you the steps to receive that. And so as leaders, what kind of a leader would you wanna follow? One who capitulates with adversity when it happens where it's like, oh no, this happened today. I gotta check out. I can't lead you. Sorry. Catch me on a better day when it's sunny and bright. No, you wanna. Followed leaders. Only one leader that's worthy is, the worthy leader is the one who, through the adversity, continues on the mission no matter what.

[00:14:52]
 And so through these blessings, if you will, blessed are blessed are, there's eight of 'em. But then he goes to number nine, and number nine isn't really, like, it's not considered one of the attitudes I would consider, like a connecting beatitude. So he goes, you know, blessed are those blessed? Are those blessed? Are those, and then number nine. Blessed are you? Interesting. It goes from those to you. Blessed are you. Listen to this when others revile you. Mm-hmm. Persecute. You falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Here's the next thing he says, and this is just along those same lines, rejoice, be glad for great is your reward in heaven for, so they persecuted the prophets. Who were before you like this word, revile. Taunt, insult, shame you. Persecute, pursue, hunt down falsely accused like slander. You make up lies, stories distortions. And Jesus says, when you stand for righteousness, you're, you align with truth. Your love for Christ will be attacked. It's not failure, friend. It's favor, it's proof. You've joined the ranks of the faithful. And I can't help but to believe that that rejoicing is not out of a checkbox. It's because we've surrendered our fear to God. It's saying, God, you know what you care. And through this your will will be known. Your joy in me will be revealed, and your character that you are embedding in me will be refined, like the gold you talked about.

[00:16:46] Chaz Horn
Yep. You know, fear is an interesting thing. It's the number one thing that keeps us growing closer from growing closer to God, and it's something that I've struggled with my entire life. I think most people, if they are honest, they would, they face fear multiple times each and every day. And so your relationship with fear is so important. And you talked about as far as working out and developing the muscle. I mean, you gotta break it down for it to repair. And courage is also a muscle that grows as you face adversity. And it's not just about it facing adversity by yourself, but knowing God is there each and every step with you, which is a difficult concept for, I struggle with it. I tell God, you know, I don't believe I lack belief in you right now. And that's how you have the intimacy with God by being honest. He already knows our thoughts anyway. And then the other part of that in our relationship with God in fear is. We are afraid to gain wisdom from God because we're afraid that he's gonna have us do something that we don't wanna do.

[00:18:04]
 And having that courage to receive the wisdom so that we act on it. 'cause God said that. I mean, I didn't give you a spirit of timidity. We wanna power, love, self-discipline, right? And that's not our power, our love, our self-discipline, that's his and his love is perfect, which cast out all fear. As we deepen the relationship with him, then we get to have a proper understanding of fear. And when we start to face fear, we're usually, I'm not talking about like a mile up off a cliff, that's a healthy fear. I'm talking about the irrational fears that we have. What is it? 40 to 60,000 thoughts in our mind each and every day. And most of those are negative. Those are fears, and that's where we grow. And usually if God. Tells us, or if God speaks to us, it's going to and gives us direction. It's gonna be above and beyond what we can do on our own strength, and that's where we get outside of ourself and start trusting in God. What's the verse? It says, God says, I'm the Lord of God who takes hold of your right hand.

[00:19:12]
 One of my favorite verses and says, “Do not fear, I will help you.” I think that that command do not fear or a variation of that is 365 times in the Bible. Maybe more, but interesting as we have 365 days in the year. So that fear is something that I've faced over and over and over again, and I don't think I'll ever overcome it, but I'm just more self-aware. So when it comes in, I can go and address that fear because it usually is addressed from my false identity as opposed to who God has. Who he has named me to be. All throughout the the Bible, you have Simon that turned into Peter Abraham, to Abraham. I mean, he has a specific name for each and every one of us. And if we don't understand our God-given identity, I'm not just talking about a child, a God, which is amazing, but that's unique to each and every one of us. When we understand that and we live outta who we are, that fear greatly subsides. 

[00:20:16] Dr. Nate Salah
Amen. In fact, doesn't control us. And I pause because. There must be something God is speaking be. I just had a, a conversation with a, with another brother in the Lord and we were on the show. He was actually local and he didn't say, we just said verbatim, but pretty darn close. And you two don't know each other. So if anyone's listening to these back-to-back episodes, God is speaking through these conduits, if you will, to remind. 

[00:20:45] Chaz Horn
Isn't that amazing how God does that? Yeah. Remind me, does, I've got duck bumps right now? Those are the bumps on top of goosebumps. By the way, this was two hours ago, Chad. He brings that message from, yeah, he brings the message from various different sources, and it's like dead on. It's like, you know Gideon, he's like, here, you know, he had the fleece and they said, well, do it this way. God is not going to shame you because we're keep asking him questions. He he'll keep telling us over and over and over and over again, and I'll speak for myself. It's, I can be dense and miss what God is showing me right in front of me because I miss it, because my perspective is skewed, 'cause I'm finite, because God's infinite. So should I trust myself in my decisions I have for most of my life? How foolish that is.

[00:21:35] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. Yeah, exactly. And this pathway, this pathway through adversity. And I'm so glad you brought up identity, because that's part of the confidence and the courage is if we know who we are Hmm. And whose we are, right? That's equally, if not more important. And I, it reminds me of, of Matthew chapter 10. Jesus is sending out the 12 disciples two by two and three times in that chapter. Do not be afraid. Do not be afraid. Mm-hmm. Do not be afraid. He's sending them out into very adverse circumstances. Some it may be as much as not being, welcomed into a town to possibly losing their life, and everywhere in between. Mm-hmm. And so. He's reframing their focus, reminding them, look, you have a heavenly passport fellas. You have to remember you're ambassadors of me, your identity, your, and I love the way you put it, your unique identity is in me, and that extension, and just like characters of old, there will be adversity that reveals it, by the way. And you think about, for example, and I know I see you've got something on your mind, and you think about Jacob. How did Jacob get renamed Israel? It was through wrestling with an angel of the Lord, which, you know very well, could have been a, they call that a, an archetype right of Christ.

[00:23:11]
 But it was through the adversity of him wrestling with his own sin. In that case because what was the sin? The sin was being dishonest and deceitful with his father and lying about who he was when he lied and said he was his brother and, and tricked his dad into the blessing because he didn't trust God. He didn't trust God to be blessed through the means that God had in store for him. So he tried to usurp. The blessing. And then when he was going to meet his brother finally, after many, many years, 'cause his brother wanted, was gonna kill him right after that. Right, right. So he is like, I'm outta here. Get outta Dodge. He was a little upset about that. Yeah. Just a little right. Stole my blessing. I'm, I'm gonna kill you. Talk about sibling rivalries. Right. So he's getting ready to come back, and God's like, Hey, hey, hey. Before you and your brother have this conversation, he thought he, his brother might still kill him. He was like, trying to get all these. I don't strategies in place to warm his brother up. Oh. If I bring him a bunch of stuff and hook him up, maybe he'll be like, Oh yeah, you're cool. And so God's like, no, no, no. Before you meet your brother, we got some unfinished business, Uhhuh. We got some unfinished. Have you ever, maybe not verbally heard that, but where God has said, Hey, we got some unfinished business.

[00:24:28]
 Many times, and it's gonna be an adverse situation to get you through this, and this angel of the Lord Russells with Jacob and, the angel of all the weirdest questions you can ask someone. Of course, the angel knew his name. He asked him, what's your name? And I don't believe he asked him his name because he didn't know his name. He asked him his name because he is like, Hey, are you gonna come clean? 

[00:24:51] Chaz Horn
Yeah. 

[00:24:51] Dr. Nate Salah
Are you gonna finally say who you are? So that God can rename you who you were called to be. And so he says his name's Jacob. And what does the angel say? You'll be called Israel, right? You don't struggled. Right and overcome. 

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[00:25:51] Chaz Horn
Unless we understand our false identities, we're not going to be able to discover our true identity. That's really important. We were lacking perspective. And that's exactly right. He called him his, his old name. And think about this, Peter, who was once Simon, what happened when Jesus was, you know, beaten and when Peter was right there and Peter denied him, and then all of a sudden, what did he do? He went to, to his old life of being a fisherman, back to being Simon. And so when Jesus was on the shore picture this Peter was in front of a fire when he denied Jesus three times before the rooster crowed, and now Jesus is bringing him right back to the fire, probably a charcoal fire. That's what they used back then. And so. What did Jesus call him? He didn't call him Peter. He called him Simon. That's right. And he said, do you love me more than these three times? So he took him back to his shame and his guilt so that he could help 'em process those thoughts and emotions. He didn't beat 'em up.

[00:27:08]
 He didn't hammer 'em down or anything like that. He restored him to who he was, and just like, well, Jacob, for the first time becoming Israel. Peter had ever, or Simon had out ridden, named Peter the Rock, in which I will build the church. But he went back to his old lifestyle. And we all do that. We all do that because it's difficult to go from our false identity into our true identity, because we have to live it through our spirit and not our flesh. And many times, and me many times, we lose that battle and we start living out of our flesh. Which is kind of a complicated concept to really understand, as opposed, I know in Christianity we have all these terms and whatnot, and people from outside the church are like, what the heck are you talking about?

[00:27:57] Dr. Nate Salah
Christ, flesh, and spirit. 

[00:27:58] Chaz Horn
Yeah, yeah. Living on our own strength as opposed to living God's strength through us. So that was when you said that, it just made me think about Simon, who became Peter, who went back to Simon, and then Jesus taking him right back to the, to the fire. Three times that mirrored the three denials that Peter denying. He knew Jesus, and he even cussed, he says, I don't bleep. You know, the Bible doesn't say exactly the what he cussed, but I don't bleep and know him. You know? And then he ran away in shame. And so, Jesus, when we do things, we beat ourselves up. That's just not God. The enemy comes to kill, rob, and destroy, and he's here to restore us. And it's just that picture, because most of my life, I didn't understand how to process emotions. Jesus wants to help us deal with our guilt and our shame and all these different things and restore us to who we are. And how powerful is that? 

[00:29:02] Dr. Nate Salah
I mean, there's nothing more powerful than the shaping because we think that we, and that, by the way, that was another. John 10:10, we talked about an hour or two hours ago as well. So God's just like, like, Hey, if you didn't catch, hey, boom, boom. You didn't catch it the first time. Guys, there's a lot of verses in the Bible, right? just to, just to say there is, definitely worth noting. So, so, so this consecration, not condemnation. I love, I love John three 16, and it's very, very popular. John 3:17. Is equally as exquisite for God did not send his son to condemn the world, but to save it. And that's where he is doing. He's saving Peter and he is just, he's taking him back. He's stripping all the armor off of the rock back to his original self. And you nailed it. The thrice denial. Thrice restoration, even to the point where Simon was getting a little agitated. He is like, you know this, you know I love you. Why do you keep asking me? And it's of course, just like all of us, we're just a little dense, and we need to process why God is. Taking us through something. And the thing about the adversity that's beautiful about this story is even if it's adversity in full denial of God and his purpose, he still takes us back with open arms. Not only that, the restoration elevates us even higher than we were before. We fully big time denied him. Talk about unmerited favor. Talk about unlimited and boundless grace. That's God. 

[00:30:48] Chaz Horn
There's a something that I, I just feel compelled to share because you never know who's gonna be watching this. And there's, I think the percentage of people taking their own lives these days is, I think a record high. And we talk about adversity and going through things, and then we talk about God and grace and mercy and love. But there's a, a disconnect. And even within the, the church within Christians where we don't know how to process our emotions when we go through, have a loss and know how to, for me, I mean, I went through all my life suppressing, suppressing my emotions, which isn't good because if you don't deal with something, it's gonna come back much uglier later on in life. If a car sh cuts in front of you on the freeway and you go from zero to rage in point 100th of a second, there's a pretty good Cho chance that you have unresolved emotions that haven't been processed or unresolved anger that's festered and built, and maybe built it into to bitterness. I remember, and it was 2004.

[00:32:07]
 You know, this is the time when I was sharing about being, you know, fat and depressed, and I lost my mom, lost my dad, pretty much everything. My job, I was like living outta my eg,o and that was totally destroyed 'cause I was like top producing this, and I just was like, Hey, look at me. I'm great. I was a legend in my own mind. Talk about ego. And my ego was just. Crushed, which was like the best thing that happened to me. And I remember my kids were really young, and my part of my unprocessed stuff that I didn't deal with, my dad disappeared when I was young. I thought he had died. And so when my kids were born, I wanted to be involved with their lives day and night. And so after the divorce and going through the custody battle and all that, I was in so much pain from all those events, 'cause the death of my mom, dad. Getting fired, pretty much losing everything. I mean, I was literally got to a place where I was living in this guy's basement, and I bought a gun. I loaded it with hollow points 'cause I did not want to miss or survive.

[00:33:18]
 I didn't write a note. I just wanted to end the pain. And one night, I just started. The gun in my head to start tapping safety off, tapping my finger on the trigger harder and harder and harder, not knowing which, which pull would be the last. And around that time, someone just started knocking on my door. No one came to my house except for bill collectors. At that point in time, I repelled everyone 'cause I was in such a dark place, and they kept knocking and knocking and knocking. I know this may sound weird for me saying it now, but then in the moment, I'm like, can I not even die in peace? So the guy would not stop. I finally answered the door, and he said, God told me to come over to your house right now. And if it wasn't for that person hearing from God and obediently acting on that, if it wasn't for that knock in the door in 2004, I wouldn't be here today. And so it wasn't like, you know, I hear so many people share their stories or testimonies as we call it in the Christian world, and they're like, and then I was like, everything was happy and joyous, and that's not how it was for me.

[00:34:33]
 It was a long journey out of darkness. And one of the things I just really got into understanding emotions, scripture, taking them for God. You know, who teaches us in the Bible how to process our emotions succinctly. And he does it quickly and it seems effortlessly probably because he is done it so many times, David. So I came up with a David framework, which is an acronym. You know how pastors love to use acronyms? I'm not a pastor. Just for anyone out there. So when you have something that's going on, dump the emotion. Dump it. David, he's real. He is like, how long, Lord, will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me? And so he's just really raw about it. And so we gotta identify the story we're telling ourself and bring it before God. And then a so DA is ask boldly, bring a request to God. Okay? Hear me, oh Lord. And answer me. Guard my life for I am faithful to you. David just didn't vent. He asked boldly. And so that is just da, and then you gotta verify God's character, you know, praise the Lord on my soul.

[00:36:01]
 Forget not all the benefits, who forgives, heals reforms. So now he's, you're taking that thought and that emotion and you're taking it through David, what he does in many of, of the Psalms. Then you have to interpret. That's the eye. Interpret it from God's lens, not your own. That's the big the problem. And we don't know that unless we're in community, which is huge. You know, around 2020, a lot of people, a lot of people left the church and didn't come back and now they're attending online. I was one of those people for a while. And so the Lord is my light into my, my salvation, whom so shall I fear. So you have to have that interpretation of the circumstances. Then the final D is delight in God. David was constant. I mean, think about the psalm. He starts like, God, am I gonna do this? And then by the end of the psalm, he is like, because your love is better than life. My lips will glorify you. So that David framework gives you ex a process to work through that he has in the Psalms. And I tell you what, Nate, if I didn't have a process to work through my emotions and and whatnot, that stuff just, you know, it says the heart is deceitful, right?

[00:37:18]
 And when we have a bunch of things that aren't processed, it keeps us from understanding God and hearing from God because we have. The flesh, you know, that's our ourselves. We have the world, and then we have the enemy, the devil, the, which I really wanna call him, and who is battling against us. And so being real with God, with our emotions, he's right there. But if we don't understand how to process those, I mean, I was there with a gun to my head because I didn't know how to mourn. I didn't know bereavement. I didn't know how to do that. So it got to a, a place where I was in so much pain. So I just felt compelled to, to share that. So hopefully if someone's in a place that's, that's dark, we all go there, we all struggle. Get around somebody and use this David framework. I'm actually gonna write a book about it in the next year, with some of my own journey and whatnot. Use that David framework to process your emotions, get in community, and getting in God's word. Amen. We all need it.

[00:38:33] Dr. Nate Salah
And answer the door. Yes, answer the door choice, because it just might be Jesus knocking.

[00:38:39] Chaz Horn
Amen to that. 

[00:38:41] Dr. Nate Salah
So that might be the title of your book.

[00:38:46] Chaz Horn
It could be, you know, sometimes people say like, you know, the Jacob and the angel of the Lord, or that's like, you know. It wasn't, I knew, I know this person, so it wasn't an angel of God. I don't know. Maybe he is, but.

[00:38:59] Dr. Nate Salah
But it was, it was a divine appointment. That's no doubt. 

[00:39:03] Chaz Horn
Big time. 

[00:39:04] Chaz Horn
It, you know, it's so surreal when I think back to that, it's just, I don't think I've fully understand it to this day, 21 years later, that it's hard to understand how miraculous that was. Yeah, I mean that one moment. What are the statistics? If you have some actuaries in the audience or something, maybe they can, what's the, the statistics of that happening? I don't know, but I know that God was all over that and he had me for a reason to be around. And you wanna know something interesting Nate? My identity, which I just found out, only took me five decades to get here, is I'm a giver of life. Only God could take someone who's trying to take his life to be a giver of life. And if you think about the verse, there's, there's life and death in the tongue. And so if I'm living outta my true identity, I'm speaking life into other people, whatever, whether it's. With my business or kind of what I'm doing now, or any conversation, if I'm not speaking life into someone, then I'm operating outta my, my false identity. 

[00:40:20] Dr. Nate Salah
Amen. Ashley, you know, and I'm, and that's so near and dear to my heart. First of all, thank you for your transparency, your vulnerability, and your message. This. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad. You are still with us, and that your work's not finished, and that you're able to share this light, this beacon of hope that you have share,d and the identity piece is so critical. We've actually been working on. And completed a, what we call our biblical identity, our incarnation instrument. It's a biblical leadership identity where we help to extract it because everyone has a unique biblical identity. And so we're on the same page. So our incarnation instrument, and that's what it's, because we are instruments of the incarnation of God, right? And we all have a uniqueness about us. That helps us to better do what Jesus said in Matthew five 16, and that is to let our light so shine before others, right? That they see our good works and do what glorify our father in heaven. Chad, it's so good that you're with me, man. I can't wait till the book comes out, have you back on the show so we can share more about that. How about that? 

[00:41:29] Chaz Horn
Yeah, that sounds great, Nate. I really appreciate the conversation, and I really hope that. This will encourage people because God has an amazing life for you, not free from challenges. I'll end with this 'cause it sounds like you're, you're getting ready to end everything, not end everything. We take that up, especially after what I just said, the podcast I was looking at. musical artist, I still believe is the name of the movie, is the name of the song Jeremy Camp. Maybe he married. Got married and shortly after marriage, his wife got cancer, and then she was heale,d and then all of a sudden she got cancer again. She died. And there's a scene in the movie where he's talking to his dad, and his dad had faced all sorts of trials and challenges, and Jeremy says to his dad, he goes, dad, how? You know, 'cause he's trying to understand this. Why did God allow his wife to die? And he said, dad, how did you deal with all the challenges and all these different things? And he said, Jeremy, my life isn't full despite the challenges. It's full because of those. And I literally, I rero it and watch that like five times. I'm like, what did he just say? So it's full or fulfilled because of those challenges. But when we face those challenges. Know that God's right there, and that's why it's also important to have community because those are the hands that feed of Christ to be with you as you're walking through those challenges. Yeah. I appreciate the conversation, Nate. It's been amazing. 

[00:43:10] Dr. Nate Salah
Amen. What a wonderful way to close our time together on this installment. I can't wait to have you back when I get to see that next iteration of your journey and your story. Thanks for being here, Jess. Yeah, great to be here. Thank you so much for supporting our program. We couldn't do it without you. I want to just take a moment to honor you in prayer. We don't wanna build anything without you, God, not a business, not a family, not a future. So we invite you into every room we walk into this week, boardrooms, living rooms, prayer rooms. Let your spirit lead. Us. Let your voice guide us, and let your power move through us to bless everyone we encountered. We are yours and your holy name. Amen.





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