A Call To Leadership

EP297: Blessed are the Merciful with Joe Thompson and Travis Revelle

• Dr. Nate Salah

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Mercy is not weakness, it is a strength that changes how we lead and live. In this episode, we uncover how compassion and forgiveness reshape business, family, and culture. We share why vulnerability builds trust and why mercy may be the most overlooked leadership tool. Listen in and discover how mercy can transform your influence and impact.

 Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • Why mercy requires strength, not weakness, and how it stabilizes teams in hard moments
  • The leadership power of appropriate vulnerability and why it builds loyalty
  • Showing mercy in tough conversations, like performance issues and layoffs
  • Forgiveness vs. forgetting and why releasing offense frees you to lead
  • How community and accountability make “Be Holy” livable, not theoretical

Resources Mentioned In This Episode


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[00:00:00] Dr. Nate Salah
God has extended his mercy, his compassion through his word, through his people, and when you receive that, you now have the power to turn around and give it away. Hello my friend, and welcome to this episode of A Call to Leadership. I'm Dr. Nate Salah, your host, so glad you are here. I have a question for you today. Does Mercy belong in business in a world that. Prizes, profit speed competition. Mercy can sound like well weakness, but when mercy is actually the hidden strength that sets leaders apart, it can transform how we treat our teams, our clients, even our competition. Well, today I'm joined by my brothers in arms, Travis Revelle, Joe Thompson. Listen, we're just guys. We're not perfect. We're unpacking the scriptures and applying them to our journey in business. These entrepreneurs and leaders have wrestled with what it looks like to bring these beatitudes to you. In our next installment here on Mercy, this conversation is more than just theory. It's about how it can shape our culture, restore our relationships, redefine our success. Doesn't just belong a church friend. It belongs in the marketplace. Hello fellas. Good morning. Good morning. Hello, Dr. Nate. Hey, how are you? I'm good, Travis. How are you? I'm well. How are you? Good. It's good to see you guys. Good to see you guys. Good to see you. This is our second episode in the new studio set up, and we would encourage people, check it out on YouTube because now we've got a couple extra cameras and they pan out to see the studio so that you could be a little more self-conscious about what you're wearing.

[00:01:47] Joe Thompson
What could be better than seeing more of us

[00:01:53] Travis Revelle
Listening to more of us? 

[00:01:55] Dr. Nate Salah
There you go. Hey, we've been having fun in this series of blessed R and if you haven't listened to the first four installments, can't believe we've already had four of them. We've been uncovering this journey as leaders, as business leaders and life leaders where Jesus. Says, I want you to live in the kind of joy that is free from Earthly Cares. And at first you might scoff at that. You might say, seriously? I mean, who could be free from Earthly Cares this precarious life? In the, in the Greek, what he says is, if you follow these prescriptions, not just descriptions, prescriptions, normative in the academic world, what do you mean by do this? It's going to help you to galvanize your spirit as I pour out my love and grace so that when circumstances happen, you are not taken off. And leadership, we've been led and we've been leaders. That's who you wanna follow. That's why I wanna follow. I wanna follow somebody who's not gonna be like, Hey, oh wow, this is too hard. I'm done. Or. This is something that, I didn't expect all these things to happen. See you later. Right? Jesus says, we're gonna ground your leadership in such a way that it is unbreakable.

[00:03:22]
 I'm down. So we've gone through the first four. Blessed are the poor and spirit. Blessed are those who mourn. Blessed are the meek. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. And that was the halfway mark. We're number five today. Which is equally challenging, especially in business and in life.Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy. First thing that comes to mind to me, the nineties. I know Karate Kid, Ralph Macchio. Was that the 90’s or was that the '80s? It could have been the eighties too. I don't remember. Yeah, it kinda gets blurry nonetheless. If you remember the, the end of the first movie, which was really the only good one, but the end of the first one, Mr. Miyagi, right, is at the end and he is confronted the sort of the, the mean evil narcissistic other guy, right? Other martial arts guy. Cobra, Cobra. Kai, 

[00:04:25] Travis Revelle
Cobra Kai. 

[00:04:27] Dr. Nate Salah
And the guy's on his knees. Mr. Miyagi's got his hand out. Because his philosophy, the Cobra Kai guy, was that what Mercy is for the weak. Yeah. Is for the weak. Mercy is for the weak. And so, you know, you see Ralph CIO's face a karate kid and he's like, oh my goodness, is he gonna kill this guy? He is. Got his arm up, and Mr. Miyagi goes in for the shot, and what does he do? Squeezes the guy's nose and winks it's mercy. And in that moment I was like, Wow.

[00:05:01] Joe Thompson
Mercy isn't for the weak.

[00:05:03] Dr. Nate Salah
Mercy's for the strong. 

[00:05:04] Joe Thompson
Because it takes strength. Mr. Miyagi is actually a good character for Mercy because now as I think through the ones that I've seen, he always has a moment like the guy that wanted to fight him to the death, and then, you know, the big board falls on him and he drops the board in half to help him out. Very merciful character. 

[00:05:23] Dr. Nate Salah
You think about it. Yeah. It's a theme that runs through.

[00:05:26] Joe Thompson
I normally hate your 9, 80’s, 90’s analogies, but that one's okay. Acceptable. We'll let, we'll let it martial arts arts guy. 

[00:05:33] Dr. Nate Salah
here, martial arts guy here. One of these episodes, we'll have to, Travis is like, who's the KAR Camp? Is that a comic book character from middle? Mr. I Like, is that a restaurant? Why does that attract us to that character? 

[00:05:50] Joe Thompson
Because it's, it's, it's the ultimate control of power. Right. Not a weakness, because you know how strong he is, right? Yeah. He'd kill a dude. He could kill a dude. Yet he doesn't have to do that in order to make a point about something.

[00:06:10] Dr. Nate Salah
And it goes into, you know, because we talked about. Blessed are the meek, which was power under God's control. Mercy takes that a step further. In fact, so much of this does, right? It actually combines the mourning, right? The second beatitude, because mourning is really shearing in that struggle. Mercy takes it a step further into compassion and action, like your example of breaking the board to save the guy. You could say, I really do feel bad that you're dying and I could feel bad. That's a morning for you. Now I'm gonna go eat lunch. I'll be back. If you're still alive, I'll help you. Right. Yeah. That's not mercy. Right. Mercy is actually taking the action. How about you? How does that play out when you, if you remember that, like, wow, this, this is a dude that's.

[00:07:08] Travis Revelle
I think in a lot of ways, right? Like he was, he was a, a fatherly figure. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, I mean if you think about like traditionally, like the fatherly figures from the 50’s, 60’s, right? Like they didn't necessarily like leave it to beaver. They didn't show power by exerting it, right? It was just understood that they had it. They commanded respect. And I think fast forward to today. Right. Being a parent of eight-year-olds and seeing other kids of that age, that is not how parents are anymore. Right. I feel like there was a flip somewhere where kids run parents now. Right there isn't, there is.

[00:07:57] Dr. Nate Salah
We ask kids for mercy. Yeah. Yeah. Like I, yeah, I, I.

[00:08:00] Travis Revelle
I think, I feel like I need to have this conversation with my kids and be like, can you show me some mercy? Please? Can you be merciful? I think when you have somebody like that, when you have a figure like that, it makes you feel safe.

[00:08:11] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. 

[00:08:12] Travis Revelle
Right. Because you know that they have the power to do things. You see that they have the maturity and the emotional intelligence to control it, and I think that that brings you a great sense of safety that you know. Everything's gonna be okay. As a leader in an organization, especially, you know, if you're, if you're, you know, have a, have a large organization, that's what you want to exude, that no matter what it's gonna be, okay, we're gonna figure it out. And that calmness, right? But knowing that this person has the power to do things, but they're choosing to be calm about it, is transcends onto the entire organization. 

[00:08:53] Joe Thompson
First of all, we have the earmark, an episode where we just break down the Karate Kid because there's so much in there. Second of all, when Ms. Mariachi takes Daniel to the, , and this Travis said, made me think of it, we takes him to the school to say, Hey, no more fighting until the tournament. He takes Daniel's son and pushes him behind him. You know, he puts him in a safe place, so he puts himself between him and the enemy. And that is another type of mercy, right? That's good. You have mercy on someone that you want to protect. 

[00:09:31] Travis Revelle
So we're gonna do a whole episode and just break down Karate Kid. I could go, I could. You could just keep going. I could go on forever. How many Beatitudes can we get from the Karate Kid kids? Can we get Ralph Nacio on the show? You started it. 

[00:09:44] Joe Thompson
We might. You started it. What's Ralph's like, 25 now? 

[00:09:49] Travis Revelle
He looks like he's 25. He has not aged a single day since 1987. 

[00:09:54] Dr. Nate Salah
Here's the thing about Mercy, especially in this context. Unlike so many things that you can figure out on your own. This kind of mercy is something we first receive. And Mr. Miyagi, since we're on the roll, some point in his life, someone had to show him mercy. Someone in his life, someone had to model that for him. At some point it had to be caught. And this is, and Jesus, what Jesus is saying here he is like God has extended his. Mercy, his compassion through his word, through his people. And when you receive that, you now have the power to turn around and give it away. And so for us as leaders, one of the things that's so important for us is are we willing recipients of the compassion? And you say, okay, it starts with compassion of, of God's mercy and love and grace. Okay. Right. Done check. Thank you. And daily, however, it's also through other people, and sometimes it's a little tough to receive compassion from others. Think about that. Why is that difficult for us? I know that the, the wheels are turning. Wheels are turning like, oh, wow, I had to actually show vulnerability to receive it. 

[00:11:19] Travis Revelle
Yeah, you, it almost, you know, the way I feel like the way. I don't know if it's society or if it's just human nature, right? Like I think that when you're accepting compassion from somebody else, you, it, it's almost you. You feel weak. You feel weak. And our brains are still set up right, like that we're being chased by saber-tooth tigers, you know what I mean? And so that, that I can't be weak, especially as men, right? Like I think women are much more evolved. Right. Like they can receive compassion from each other. They're more emotionally mature. Absolutely. I mean, they're just a better species all the way. Right. Not right. Right. But you know, showing weakness, has traditionally been not something that men strive to do. 

[00:12:05] Dr. Nate Salah
Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:06] Travis Revelle
Unfortunately. 

[00:12:08] Joe Thompson
Right. Unfortunately. Look at business, since we discuss that a lot, I'll leave Mr. Miyagi out of this. You would be considered a weak. CEO or or, or leader. If you had your competition like on the edge of going under and you, you didn't push 'em under and you didn't push 'em under. Yeah. If you show them Mercy, mercy, everyone would look at you like, this is the weakest CEO we've ever had. Your stock price would get hammered. It's crazy, right? It's crazy. So it's not only ingrained in us, but it's still a societal thing that mercy is weakness. 

[00:12:46] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. And yet going back to when Apple was 90 days from Insolvency and Bill Gates stroked the check, right? Yeah. And Steve Jobs went to him. Old friends slash rivals over all these years. Irony is on the, on the backside, there was a lawsuit that Apple had been pursuing Microsoft for years on intellectual property and Steve's like, Hey, I can make that go away. We need some compassion in the, , form of a hundred million dollars. So that was his vulnerability. 

[00:13:28] Joe Thompson
And then Bill had the opportunity to show mercy, right? Yeah. 

[00:13:34] Dr. Nate Salah
So it it was reciprocal in a way, right? Reciprocal compassion, mercy. It's not something you see every day in a business world.

[00:13:40] Travis Revelle
Now, do you think Tim Cook would do that today for Microsoft? 

[00:13:46] Dr. Nate Salah
Tough to say, brother. Tough to say. But at the same time, Steve realized I've gotta have vulnerability here. Mm-hmm. I've got to have, I gotta show weakness like, and the weakness, it truly was, Hey, I'm coming back in. We're almost done and we need help. That in and of itself was like, there's something about that that is just so attractive in terms of leadership, but we're. We're also repelled by it. We wanna hide it like most, most. 'cause most business owners, or most leaders or most CEOs may say, Hey, we gotta keep this stuff under wraps. Yeah. Like, we gotta get our money quietly. We don't wanna tell the world that in just a few months we're out of business. It's the antithesis of how we've been taught. 

[00:14:35] Travis Revelle
But I think it, it also comes, I have this conversation with younger leaders, right? Because I feel like. I don't know when it happened, right? But I'm 45, right? So I'm not, I'm not the young leader anymore that I once was. Now I'm the, the, the older guy, you know, in the, in the group. But I feel like there is a, a level of loyalty that you get from people that are reporting to you if you can be vulnerable. And I do this with my direct reports, right? Like, I will just say stuff like, Hey, here's the situation. Here's my thoughts on it. Here's what I think. I may be wrong. I may be right. Please give me your input. I'm gonna go first and tell you how I think we can solve this problem. But if you have a better idea or you think there's something that'll work better, because you guys do this every single day, right? I'm just overseeing your work.

[00:15:29]
 You know what I mean? Like if you can do it better, and that, that I have found over the years creates an immense sense of loyalty. From your reports to you, right? Because they know, one, they know that there's, there's open lines of communication. They know that they can have their input. They feel good because they can give you their input. But two, they know like that you're a human being. We all, when we lay down at night, right, we have weaknesses, right? We all know internally what our weaknesses are, and I think, right, like the person who shows their weaknesses first is actually the stronger person. Yeah. Because we all have them. Boy, this is 

[00:16:07] Joe Thompson
one that I've really swam up river with my, my whole career. And especially, you know, in the consultant field, sometimes it's just really hard to show mercy and get everybody moving to, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And, you know, sometimes I'm hired. For that. Like to not show mercy. Not show mercy. Right. 

[00:16:36] Travis Revelle
That's your job. Right? Right. Yeah. 

[00:16:37] Joe Thompson
Like I need you to come in and turn this on. Yeah. Get these guys going. There's a huge struggle there for me in balancing that, I guess. 

[00:16:47] Travis Revelle
Yeah. I don't, I don't know if you can, because you're not there to grow and or you're there to perform a task. Right. You're, you're task, you're task oriented, you know, mercy doesn't pay the bills, but I think there's ways, like even if you have to deliver tough messages, right, you have choices, right? So if you, you know, there's been times in my career where I've had to come in and, and, and lay off large groups of people at one time. Yeah. It's terrible, right? And it is. As my wife will tell you, like, it was, it, like I, it bothers right? Right. Like I'm a human being. Like it bothers me. Like I start thinking about, you know, their, their families and, and what are they gonna do and blah, blah, blah. But, there's a way to do it mercifully, right? And there's a way to just come in and just kind of be a jerk. I think if you choose right to, to have those tough messages, but show mercy, even if it's not a. Even, it's not something somebody's going to enjoy hearing. Right? The way you deliver it can impact that person immensely.

[00:17:47]
 When I think about the movie, I think it's air up there or something with George Clooney where he went in and he had to terminate people all the time, and he would have those conversations about when was it that you decided to give up on your dream, right? Like your childhood dream. And he would terminate people, right? But he would get them, they would walk out kind of excited about their future. And then the whole premise of the movie was there was a younger girl who had more of a automated system that she was trying to come in from an efficiency standpoint. And it just, it was terrible because there was no warmth or tact to how this system was performing. Right. And people were freaking out when they were getting laid off. And so I think that there's a way to show mercy in even having really tough conversations with people. 

[00:18:33] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. And it sets us apart. It's part of the be holy. Journey, right? The be holy challenge that we've, we've all accepted is this setting apart for a divine purpose to walk in godly integrity, godly mercy, godly wisdom, and godly witness through those challenges. And so that compassion piece, because as leaders, especially in business where since we're on this, this track, if you will, and there's, there's times where. I've heard it said you've had to free someone's future, and this is kind of along the same lines. It's like, I don't wanna just tell you I feel bad that you are gonna have a change in transition that may have some stress. I do wanna say that it's part of my compassion for you. To release you from something that is not going to provide a long-term sustainable benefit for you from an employment perspective. I want to show that I care enough not to just string you along and to something that is bondage and not liberating for the best and highest use of your genius.

[00:19:51]
  Now, that might sound. Like a canned. Oh, thanks a lot. Did you just read that off a script? However, if it's truly from the heart and you meet someone where they are and they know that my goal isn't just the metric, my goal is the mercy, and you live authentically in that, it's up to them. Whether or not they accept that as truth.

[00:20:16] MidTro Ad
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[00:20:56] Travis Revelle
Right? You can't force somebody to accept your mercy. You can just show it. Yeah, you can give it, but again, they have to receive it.

[00:21:05] Dr. Nate Salah
When Jesus was on that cross and he said, father, forgive them for they know what they do. Some people. Standing there we're cut to the heart like, oh my goodness. Mm-hmm This guy is, is praying for me. And I'm one of the ones who said, release Barabbas, condemn him while others were like, whatever. Right. 

[00:21:23] Joe Thompson
It's not, not on Jesus. The, the huge part of it is, is forgiveness. You, I don't even know if we've said that until you said forgive them. You know, you really have to exercise, especially in your be holy journey. Forgiveness almost minute by minute. You know, the guy cuts you off in traffic. You know, someone does something stupid at work. It costs you money. You gotta constantly be in a, in, in a, in a state, ready to forgive if you're gonna show mercy. 

[00:22:00] Travis Revelle
Right. But I, but I think people get it convoluted that, that forgiveness is not necessarily for that other person. It's for you. So that you're not carrying the stress and anger with you, yeah, just let it go. If that other person continues to do what they're doing, again, that's on them, right? We can only control what is happening inside our bodies, our minds, right? Like my body, my choice, right? Mm-hmm. So my, my choice is, is to forgive because it is a freeing, yes feeling for me. I feel better when I forgive somebody.

[00:22:32] Dr. Nate Salah
It's another level. It's truly another level. When you think about how do I respond to perhaps someone missing a mark or failing or wronging me, do I respond with the retaliation that Mercy is for the weak as the Cobra Kai model? Or do I say, God, you have poured out your limitless compassion on me. If someone cuts me off on the road or if someone creates an injustice or if someone misses something at my place of business or my spouse says something perhaps out of anger and it was unfounded, what is my response? My response is compassion. Why compassion. Perhaps in that moment they have not fully recognized or receive the mercy and the love and the grace that you've freely poured out on them. So in this moment, I have compassion for you in the same way that when Jesus looked at those crowds and he saw them, and what does the scripture says, that he had compassion on them because they were helpless and harassed.

[00:23:45]
 And what does he then say? He asked? Us to share in his compassion. The harvest is plenty, but the workers are few. That's the heart of being compassionate. That's the heart of this mercy that changes the entire vantage point of our leadership model and raises and elevates us far beyond the mediocrity of what we are told to do into the highest standard of what God has in store for us as leaders. I have, , trouble. 

[00:24:20] Joe Thompson
I struggle with feeling forgiveness. Like if I've wronged somebody, you know, like I'll beat myself up over it, even after they're like, Hey, it's okay, you know, we're cool. I still don't feel it. Mm-hmm. Because there's, you know, I guess maybe it's my lack of being vulnerable during it or believing that someone really means it, like. Because it's forgive and forget. Right. But people will forgive you of something and then next time you're in an argument, they'll bring it up from like five years ago. Mm-hmm. It's like you didn't really let that go. So, you know, are you, are you still kind of holding it against me and. You hear people say a lot, oh, I forgive him, but la I'll never forget it. The forgetting it is the bigger part of the forgiveness. Absolutely. Like the As if it didn't happen is the true forgiving, but saying, oh, hey, I forgive you. I don't want you to have, you know, this bad thing you're carrying around, but I'm gonna put it in my pocket here and then I'll, I'll throw it up later. Yeah. Like when we're in an argument and I'll say, well, remember when you did this to me? You feel no forgiveness then? Right. And I always feel people still carry, however you've wronged them in whatever way you've wronged them. I think people still carry it with them. And that's why I never feel like forgiveness is genuine from people.

[00:25:50] Travis Revelle
But on the same token, if you've apologized for something and you told the person, right, like you can't control them, so you're carrying around this extra guilt that could be real, could not be real. You have no way of knowing if it's real or not. So I think that that is a scenario in which you need to forgive yourself. You need to have some mercy on yourself. And I think that might be the hardest person to have mercy on is ourselves. Yeah, I agree. Right. But if God can have mercy on you, he's a smart guy. Right? Like if he can even see Yeah. But I trust his forgiveness and his forgiveness. Okay. Well you should trust your forgiveness.

[00:26:26] Joe Thompson
Yeah. I just don't trust other people's. Because I don't think people are merciful. I don't think they go about their life mercifully. I think mercy is something people have to really reach hard for. And I mean, I may just be cynical and be saying that, but like look around you. Like you could be in the grocery store and see 20 cases where no one's being merciful to the other person. Right. So you start to think, wow, you know, people don't really have forgiveness because he banged into her cart, you know, and she given them the business over it. It's just kind of, I think I've always just kind of held that as my own personal truth, that people rarely forgive and forget. They'll say they forgive because forgiveness makes them feel better. Mm-hmm. Right. But forgetting it doesn't make them feel better because like this is a way they can hold on to something and protect themselves in the future from it. 

[00:27:32] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. Well, and that's part of letting go, allows you to receive. So as long as you're holding on to that, whatever it is, bitterness, lack of full forgiveness. You're not ready to receive, and you're gonna live in that. You're gonna live in that lack of freedom of liberation until you let it go. Because once you've let it, and this is where Jesus says, forgive and you'll be forgiven. And when I first read that years ago in the gospels, I was like, oof. As I thought it through, I'm like, oh yeah. I can't receive until I've released. I had to let go of what I'm cur. So that I can receive God's mercy and grace, and and love, and once I've done that, then I have it to give away. That's, I think, the game changer in terms of understanding, because people also, I think, hold on, they're afraid in some ways. Okay, well, if I show compassion, if I show mercy, what happens when I'm taken advantage of? They see it again, as we had uncovered earlier as a weakness. The thing about mercy, it doesn't mean that we're compromising our values, our boundaries, excellence in an organizational environment at home with our families.

[00:28:57]
 It changes the temperature of how we lead. We tell the truth. We do it with grace. We restore. Rather than replace, when we look at our teams, we correct them with dignity. It changes the tone, it changes the temperature, it changes how we approach. Understanding where people are in that moment doesn't change consequences. Mm-hmm. Doesn't change outcomes. Yeah. Doesn't change any of those things that just naturally happen. Right. With decisions. Mm-hmm. However, it changes. What's inside of us and how we approach all situations. First, the first thing to always remember, God, you have poured out your mercy upon me. Who am I to withhold it from anyone else?

[00:29:52] Joe Thompson
It's the right path. I'm just saying as a regular human one around the planet. So you know, I certainly don't want to come off that. Like, I have all this under control, you know?

[00:30:06] Dr. Nate Salah
And none of us do, bro.

[00:30:10] Joe Thompson
I mean, look, I'm on guard all the time. Yeah. We, yeah. Like from the way you grow up to the way you go through school and get in business and everything, if you are met with a lot of adversarial people, you have a tendency to have an on guard feeling, right? Mm-hmm. And that plays out in your personal life as well. And Sure. It's something to focus on. I think this one, especially, is a difficult beatitude, both give and receive it. For me personally, I'm just saying, you know, you know, it's not easy.

[00:30:45] Joe Thompson
Maybe other people are fine with it. 

[00:30:47] Dr. Nate Salah
None of these are, yeah, it's like, and everyone, I think, hits it each of us differently. I agree. 

[00:30:53] Travis Revelle
And I think, again, I think that the thing for the listeners to understand is that, you know, one, we don't claim to have this all together. We're all, we're learning, we're growing. All going through this together. And two, it's a journey. Like there are some days that I'm more merciful than other days. You know what I mean? There's some days that I, I, I have more precarious than other days. You know what I mean? Like there are some days that I'm holier than other days, you know what I mean? Like I'm human, right? Like, so I don't think that, obviously, we want to be as close to Christ as possible. We're not going to be Christ. You know what I mean? So there's, there's just in fallacies in humanity that happened. And I think that if we are the light that is trying and trying to show this, right? Like I say this to people all the time, right? Like when you come into my organization, like I want you to be a better person when you leave, whether you're here for a day, a week, a month, a year, a decade, whatever it is. I think that's the same way going into life. Like you interact with people, show them mercy so that they can feel it. They may not ever forget, Joe, what you said to them, right? Or what you did to them in the third grade. Most likely they won't, you know, they might not, but that's not your cross to bear. 

[00:32:10] Dr. Nate Salah
Right?

[00:32:10] Travis Revelle
Right. That's not on you to carry with you. Right. All you can do is apologize and do better. 

[00:32:17] Joe Thompson
Are all things forgivable? Is there a time where. We should show Mercy every time, right? Correct. Like that's the, the teaching Jesus gives. We should show, so like you're walking down, death down the street, bro, and some guy walks up and kicks it down. One of your eight year olds. Mm-hmm. Do you just absolve him, Travis? 

[00:32:40] Travis Revelle
No, because I'm human. Pick her up and just No pressure off and walk away. No, no. I, I'm not, I'm not. But I'm not going to kill, that's that human being, 

[00:32:49] Joe Thompson
you know what I mean? Like I don't mean so, so, but think about the people who've lost people to murderers. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. And they do find forgiveness. 

[00:32:59] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. Yeah. You talk about all over Holocaust. Yeah. Survivors have forgiven the, their, their.

[00:33:04] Travis Revelle
Look, I think, I think a lot of it takes, a lot of, it takes time. You know what I mean? Like. In the heat of the moment, I believe that our brains go to just a fight or flight, right? There are certain things that maybe after years and years and years and years of practicing this, you can get to a point of, of enlightenment or whatever you wanna call it, right? But no, if somebody, if, if we're walking on the street today and we have this conversation and somebody kicks my kid, you know what I mean? Like, and that's not another child, you know, like, probably not gonna be. Wholly in that I'm gonna try, I'm gonna, I'm, but I'm gonna feel bad. You know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna ask forgiveness. 

[00:33:41] Joe Thompson
But like you said, it, it takes practice. 

[00:33:42] Travis Revelle
It takes practice. This is all.

[00:33:44] Joe Thompson
And it takes constantly reminding yourself constantly. And it's hard. It's been a real pain in my life ever since then I started it. Right, right. Well, it's also, it's like holy challenge have to be holy challenge. 

[00:33:56] Travis Revelle
It's, it's once you, once you're exposed to it. There's a little bit of freedom and ignorance, right? Like yes, there's freedom and ignorance, lots of it. There's a weight that comes with knowledge, you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And, but that's especially this kind, but that's the choice, right? You're choosing to do that because you know that the payoff, although is hard now, the payoff later on is great. 

[00:34:24] Joe Thompson
I was telling Nate the other day, since the be Holy Challenge. I don't think ever in my lifetime have I thought or considered like what Jesus would do as much as I do now, percent. You know what I mean? 

[00:34:39] Travis Revelle
Thousand percent. 

[00:34:39] Joe Thompson
Like I, I almost have to stop myself and be like, okay, be holy. You know? But that's the practice. Don't reflect on it. 

[00:34:47] Travis Revelle
That's the practice and you're doing, breathe it through.

[00:34:48] Joe Thompson
So I do think if you're a Christian and you really wanna get closer to Christ and you. Do the who be holy thing. You will think about Jesus more now than you ever have in your life. I agree. No matter what kind of program you've been through. Yep. , this will constantly make you weigh yourself against like his amount of forgiveness, his amount of mercy, his amount of his ability to love radically. Right. You'll think about it constantly like I do. I think about it constantly. Like it's not something I can just. Forget because once you start it and you're oriented towards it, leaving it now feels like, like I'm really giving up on Right. Something that's bigger than anything I've right. Done before.

[00:35:39] Travis Revelle
Well, I think that's why, I think that's why, right? Like you, you need to be in groups, right? You need to be around like-minded individuals. , community makes all the difference, right? You need to be in the community, right? Like you need to be in these things because it is hard. It's an impossible. Task to achieve. Right. But yet we're still trying our best to achieve it, knowing that we will never ever get to the point to where we can turn on and be like, I'm holy, like I'm here. Yeah. You know what I mean? 

[00:36:10] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. So the, the shirt always will say, be holy, not, it's always I'm holy. 

[00:36:14] Travis Revelle
Right. So you need to be around like-minded people who are supporting you, who are holding you accountable. Right. To having these types of conversations about. Hey, I'm really struggling with showing mercy. Like what? How do I do this? That sounds fantastic, but how do I actually apply that to my life, and what does that look like, and how do I do that? You know, I think with all the beatitudes, it is a perfect plan of living your life, but how do you actually do it right day in and day out, right? Yes. Like that's what the groups are for. That's what the community is for. That is. To give you applicable skills to be able to do that and to be able to handle that. And if you come across something that you cannot, you lean on your brothers and your sisters right to give you support. 

[00:37:05] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, I love that. I love that you shared that because as a, as you shared, I think about all the folks in our  G3 community who have, they'll have a moment and they'll put in the chat like, it's tough to be holy today. Or I need prayer for mercy as we, you know, as we've gone through these. Yeah. Beatitudes in our, in our community. So encouraging. Right. It's good to know. Yeah. When I see others struggle, you're not on an island. 

[00:37:27] Joe Thompson
It's like when the apostles screw up. Yeah. I feel so much better 

[00:37:32] Dr. Nate Salah
And I don't know how I would do without that support. Without the, the, the group team. I know that. There are moments in my own walk where I see someone else struggling and it helps me to not only have compassion to, but to also be reminded that Nate. You can share some of this stuff mm-hmm. That you go through as well. Mm-hmm. Just because you provide the teaching and you lead this kind of stuff, doesn't mean everybody knows that you're not impervious too, and it gives me permission. It gives me permission to be vulnerable, to receive the mercy and the compassion of my brothers and sisters. It's elixir. Yeah. It's like heavenly medicine for the soul. 

[00:38:14] Travis Revelle
You know, the thing is, is humans are not, we're not meant to, you know, be alone in life. We're not made to be alone, right? We're made to share these burdens and these struggles. We're not supposed to shoulder them by ourselves. We're supposed to have a community, a village, however you wanna look at it, right? Like we're supposed to have people to help us through the tough times. In the same regard, we're supposed to help other people through their tough times. Right, and that's what life is supposed to be about. So I think that's why, you know those, the listeners who are listening and they're like, Hey, this sounds fantastic. I would love to live all of these Beatitudes, but how? Mm-hmm. Where do I start? How do I even begin to do this be Holy journey. And I said that's, that's, that's what the community is here for. That's what we're here for. All of our brothers and sisters to help you, you know, along that path.

[00:39:09] Dr. Nate Salah
Absolutely. And we've got all kinds of ways people can find us. And the show notes have the website. It was really just easy. G3tribe.com. Yeah. G3tribe.com. Super easy. And it's a game changer. 

[00:39:21] Joe Thompson
It's a safe place. Yeah. We've talked about that before. Needing a safe place. Yeah. You need a safe place to practice these things. Right. When we do it amongst ourselves, we get better at doing it outside of the community. Mm-hmm. Like where it, where it matters in real life, you know what I mean? And , yes, it's just encouraging to have a safe place to go to. And just be honest, like the way I'm honest today with my struggle with the Home Mercy thing. It's just nice to lean on people that understand that you're going through that. 

[00:39:56] Dr. Nate Salah
We'll have an episode all about what to expect in the community. G3 stands for grow, give, go, grow purpose fully, because Jesus says that I've come to you should have life and have what to the full. Right? So full of purpose. You take that growth and then you give generously of the time, talent and treasures we're entrusted with. And the third piece, go love. Radically, that's the clincher. Mm-hmm. Because wherever you go, you are representation of the love that's been poured out to you. And it is radical love. Radical just simply means a fundamental altering of the understanding of something. Jesus flips the understanding of what it means to love for all of us to say, Oh wow. Hello. And we're gonna go through this when we, as we get to the rest of the next series. You have heard it said right, that Jesus like open up with that. I love that. Like you've heard it said this, but right. 

[00:40:52]
However. Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh boy, here we go. Oh, what are you gonna tell me I need to do? And the kind of stuff that he says, it's a radical, fundamental change. Like, no, no, no. That doesn't sound right at all. He's like, kind of know what I'm talking about. Yeah. I kind, yeah, I kind, I kind of have this Okay. Kind of a big deal. I've kind. Mercy. I know a guy. Right, right. I have a guy. I got a guy. Mercy. Mercy, is not for the week. Mm. It's for the strong. It's for the strong. Good show, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Good to see you guys. 

[00:41:23]
Thank you so much for supporting this program. I'd like to pray for you for just a moment. That God realigns the heart away from pressure, pride, performance back to his presence. Let us grow in God's wisdom. Let us give from our overflow, and let us go love radically in every place God sends us. Make us holy Lord, set us apart, not just successful, but surrendered. In Jesus' name, amen.





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Dr. Nate Salah

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