A Call To Leadership

EP299: Responding to God's Nudge Part 1 with Mark Joe and Travis Revelle

• Dr. Nate Salah

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What if saying yes to God completely changed your life? In this episode, Mark Joe shares how faith turned struggle into purpose and a simple coffee shop into a thriving ministry for young adults. His story shows the power of obedience, community, and living out what you believe. Listen now to discover how one bold step of faith can transform everything.


Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • How Mark Joe went from never attending church to leading a thriving faith community
  • What obedience means when you don’t know where God is leading
  • How true belief shows up in everyday choices
  • Why Omen Coffee became a space for real connection and revival
  • How business owners can turn their work into a living ministry


About Mark Joe
Mark is the founder of Omen Coffee, a community-centered coffee shop in St. Louis that serves as both a gathering place and a ministry for young adults. After never attending church until the age of 30, he discovered his faith through Scripture and transformed his life through daily surrender and obedience to God. Today, he leads Omen Coffee and a nonprofit ministry that works together to foster real human connection, discipleship, and authentic conversations about faith and purpose.


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[00:00:00] Mark Joe
All of us are imperfect, and we're flawed, and we're sinners and all these things, but like when you've experienced God's grace, when you've experienced his mercy, when you've experienced his love, you can just literally see it, and it's not that you've never experienced it. 

[00:00:16] Dr. Nate Salah
Hello my friend and welcome to this episode of A Call to Leadership of Dr. Nate Salah, your host. So glad you are here while a special, special treat on this episode series two Parts with my brother Mark Joe. I've got. Travis on the first episode with us doing some co-hosting and,mark, man, he's been through it. He's,went through the foster care system, dealt drugs, went to prison for five and a half years, turned his life over to God and man, he's never looked back. He's on fire. He is got his coffee shop. That's so much more than that. It's a gathering place to discover, rediscover authenticity with his relationship and your relationship. My. Relationship our savior. So I can't wait for you to listen in. Make sure you listen to both parts of you. This is, you're coming in on the second one. Definitely go into the first. He really inspires andI know it will bless you today. Well, hello. Hey, Travis. How's it going, mark? Welcome. Thank you brother. Glad to have you. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. We are so thrilled that you've joined us today. You've got an amazing story to tell and we want to hear it. About your journey, your ministry, your coffee shop. That's just not the average ordinary place you get a cup of coffee. 

[00:01:37] Mark Joe
Yeah. I'm excited to get into it. Honestly. It's,it's been quite a journey. The lord, you know, the Lord is faithful. Mm. As, as you know. Mm-hmm. As you know. 

[00:01:45] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. Have you always been a person that walked with the Lord or was there a time you had not?

[00:01:49] Mark Joe
No. No. Not at all. So I never stepped foot into a church until I was 30 years old. Man, it's just such, it's the greatest blessing. Every time I tell somebody that I'm just, I have to just, you know, give glory to God for just how good of a planner he is and just how intentional he is. Because now you know, the ministry work that we're doing, you know, on the Bible, some people are called, they feel called in anyway, to a specific group of people. Like Paul's called to the Gentiles. Perfect example, right? It's not to say that he doesn't, he won't minister to anybody. He will he'll minister to anybody who's right in front of him. Just like Jesus. I believe there's a story where, you know, a woman you know is appealing to Jesus and he says something to the effect of, I'm not here for you, but of course he's Jesus and he says he has mercy on her anyway, and he keeps going. Well, I just feel. Particularly compelled to testify and witness to people who call themselves Christians. And part of what I think lets me rest in this perspective that I, from this, you know, this vantage point that I have is the fact that I, I read the New Testament and then I went to church. I have no preconceived ideas for what church is supposed to be like or what it's always been like because I never went to church.

[00:03:02]
 And then I read the New Testament and I went to church expecting it to be like. The New Testament look and feel and sound like the New Testament. And so imagine my surprise when I step into a church and the pastor doesn't sound anything like Paul, you know, or the pastor does, really doesn't even sound anything like Jesus. You know, we've gone to a lot of churches now where I'm just like, of course every pastor's doing their best, but. Somewhere along the line. I, you know, I just feel like there has been a concerted attack on Christianity and the attack is just the normalization of a version of Christianity. That's not Christianity at all, you know? Anyway, so me never stepping foot into a church until I was 30, again, it gives me this fresh perspective. I'm looking at it saying. Okay. Not how has this always been done, but how ought this be done? You know? And of course I'm not forming my own opinion. I'm looking through the book of Acts. I'm, you know, reading Jesus's ministry. I'm reading everything that he said did and taught. That's the perspective that I get to see it from, not some like indoctrinated perspective. Does that make sense? I like this guy. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. 

[00:04:07] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, it's, and, and it's, it's right in line with what we've been working through on the show mm-hmm. As we talk through, okay, what did Jesus say? 

[00:04:16] Mark Joe
Yeah, that's it. 

[00:04:17] Dr. Nate Salah
That's the question. How about that? You know, it seems mm-hmm. Pretty straightforward, right? Yeah. Right, Travis. It's like, oh, wow. Just go to the source for real. Go to the authenticity of it, and then unroll the scriptures. By the way, you don't have to have a theological degree. No. You don't have to know. Now, granted, you go to seminary. That's fantastic, and there's, there's a place for that. However, Jesus's followers. Mm-hmm. Who were they? They just followed them. They were just regular people. Yeah. Who are, who are listening to his what. 

[00:04:48] Mark Joe
His stories. His stories. That's it. And his teachings. That's And watching him. Yeah. You know, they just watched and Yeah. 

[00:04:53] Dr. Nate Salah
They modeling, you know, thankfully we have this thing.

[00:04:55] Mark Joe
This the living word of God, this thing, this account where we get to watch 'em too. And,yeah. When,I had somebody recently, because somehow I've found myself in this position of stewardship of some people and relationships in the community, and this woman reached out to me about a question regarding like how she should. It was about tithing. It was like, okay. So I said to her one, Hey, I'm not a theologian. I'm just gonna put that out there. I'm not, I'm not an expert, but I told her my golden rule for myself. When in doubt, what did Jesus say about this? That's it. Like there's Old Testament stuff about tithing, and then there's a few verses where Jesus talks about tithing. So when in doubt, we're Christians, we are followers of Christ, right? Come on, little Jesus is right. And so let me just see, did Jesus speak on this topic? And if so, what did he say? And then if not, then I'll go to Paul or I'll go to Moses's or whatever. But if Jesus spoke on this, I follow Jesus before anything else.

[00:05:54] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. And it's funny you bring that like the expert thing because the first thing that comes to my mind is experts in the law. 'cause Jesus was constantly saying, here's what the experts in the law say, right? Mm-hmm. Right. So their entire life and that expertise. Let me unpack that for you. Mm-hmm. Lemme make it super simple for you, so that you know your action items to move forward. Jesus is a strategic leader who knows the heart of a human being, and not only that, but he speaks to that heart. On the human level, it says, I know how you feel. I understand not only that I'm gonna say and do things that help you to live the life that I've come, that you should live. Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:34] Travis Revelle
Yeah, that's it. That's attractive. I, it was God modeling human behavior. That's what it was. Right? It's so good. Yeah. 

[00:06:39] Mark Joe
It really is. It's, it's, it reminds me of like, when Jesus says, um, the two most important commands early in his ministry, right? Mm-hmm. Love your neighbor and well love the Lord your God. Mm-hmm. And then love your neighbor as yourself. But then later in John, at the end of his ministry, he says, I give you a new command, right? Mm-hmm. To love one another, which is so interesting 'cause there's a period after that to love one another, period. Right. And I just thought, that's so interesting because. To love one another is not actually a new command. And there's not much that's new about that. 'cause we've already been told, love your neighbor as yourself. But then when he says after that, just as I have loved you, you are to love one another, and it's. What you're saying is, what reminded me of it is like God actually came, and before then there was no, it was open to interpretation. What does that mean? What does love look like? What does love your neighbor? What does that look like? Love the Lord your God. What does that look like? I mean, and there's some, there's some guidance there. But now he came and he said, look, now I've showed you exactly what I mean. I want you to love one another just as I have loved you. And so, yeah, it's mic drop. They had Mikes back then. Right. That's a mic drop. I know. And I'm out. That's it. But he seriously was out after that. Right? He's out. That's it. I'm, I'm gonna give you this new command and I'm gone. 

[00:07:41] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's something very precious about that. Jesus not only said love, he embodied it. Oh yeah. The personification. Mm-hmm. Of love in leadership. You know, we talk a lot about leadership on the podcast, talk about, we talk a lot about leadership in business. We're all, you know, we're, we come from the entrepreneur world and how the application of Jesus' life and love and we almost dismiss it in a sense that we say, oh well, you know, that was Jesus or it's too touchy feely, or all these different reasons, excuses. Not to stand in it, but that is the one thing, you know, if there's one thing that Jesus wanted us to understand was this concept that he came to pour out. Yeah. For all humanity. Love, right, love. Yeah. And I always think about us as human beings, like, okay. If there's usually an issue in my day, whether it's at the office or whether it's home, whether it's in my community. Of course, we talk a lot about this at G3, our, our program in Great Summit. It's that I have not been walking in the love that was first poured out. Yeah. The one that you've received. That's right. Yeah. That's right. Because you can't give away what you don't have, what you don't have, what you have not received.

[00:09:10] Mark Joe
Yeah. That's really good. You know, there there's two thoughts I have on love. One is like culture's definition of love is very different than, or at least our culture right now. Mm-hmm. Our culture's definition of love a lot of times is very different than the love that we've seen, you know, in Jesus, but the other, in the kind of the more. Conversational point that I have is a lot of times remember, I feel I just, I have such a heart for the people again, who call themselves Christians. The way I think about it's, they're playing church. You know, they go to church every Sunday. They tithe, they check all the boxes. But when, this is how I know, and this is what lights me up, is if I'm talking to somebody. About Jesus. You can just tell that they don't have, that you haven't experienced the power of the cross. You come on, don't walk in freedom. You're still telling me about this thing that you like, what you know, like what are you talking about right now? But you call yourself a Christian and it's, uh. You know, that's what lights me on fire.

[00:10:09]
 And it's the same, you know, it's all of us are imperfect and we're flawed, and we're sinners and all these things. But like when you've experienced the God's grace, when you've experienced his mercy, when you've experienced his love, you know, you could just see it. You can just literally see it. And it's not that you've never experienced it. 'Cause a lot of these people that I testified to or that I even, you know, shepherd in some ways. I know that at one point they were on fire for the Lord. They loved Jesus. But today, like I, I don't subscribe to this once saved, always saved. Doctrine. I know that's controversial, but in my mind, that doesn't make any sense. I had to wake up this morning, I did this morning, I woke up and I surrendered my life to Christ. I re surrendered my voice, my influence, my business. I re surrendered. I reminded myself of everything that he's carried me through. I repented because today, if Jesus came back today, I want to know that me and him are are, are in a good place. And so I just think that somewhere along the line. It's interesting because as we adopt religiosity, we lose the sincerity in those daily surrenders because it's just becomes checking the box. And so that zeal that you had, that Jesus talks about, but that, that zeal that you had when you really first fully and sincerely surrendered your, your heart to Jesus.

[00:11:32]
 Slowly but surely, you go, you know, 10 days, 50 days, a hundred days, 300 days without re surrendering, you know, it's. 'cause you have this one saved. Always say, oh, I got baptized. I'm good, you know? But slowly but surely you start to lose that glow. You know, they say pregnant women have a Glo. You start to lose that glow that you walk with when you remember the power of the cross, when you remember the grace, the, the mercy, when you remember the love that you've received. That glow is what attracts others too. Also, it's what equips us for the great commission. Amen. Amen. But I, and I'm preaching to guys that you guys know. I love it. You guys know stuff way better than me, but.  

[00:12:09] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, you know, and, and that whole doc, there's a lot to be said on that. That's maybe another episode. That's a, another That's doctor. Another episode for another day. Because there's a whole, there's a whole lot. But I do wanna say something, I want your opinion on this.Travis, you mentioned freedom, and I wanna paint this picture and ask you both how you, what you think about this, because there's a lot of truth to what you said, and the word truth comes into this conversation. Jesus is prescriptive and he's descriptive, right? He describes things and he prescribes things. He's in the academia. We say normative, right? Tells you how and why you need to do something. So it's not just like Jesus makes these claims and says, okay, go figure it out. He says, look, I'm gonna actually show you the way. Why? Because I am the way, right? Because I'm the way. So check this. In the eighth chapter of John, and we've talked about it a little bit here and there on the podcast, but it, it's bear bearing, repeating in the eighth chapter of John, there's a phrase that just about everybody who speaks English has heard the truth will set you free.

[00:13:05]
Right? So you've heard it, right? You don't have to be a believer, you don't have to be a, you just know that everybody's heard it. People don't realize you. Jesus said that, right? He didn't just say the truth will set you free. That was actually the last. Part of a four-part prescription on how to walk in freedom. So here's the, here's the prescription. Step one, abide in my word. Step one. Make my word your home. I love the, I love the abide terminology because you think about your home. Yeah. Like in your house, you pretty much, you know, your way around. The, your home is a, is a collection of all the things that are important to you. Yeah. So when he says, abide in my word. When he says that, he's like, invite me into every crevice of your life. Mm-hmm. Step one, and then what happens? Step two, you are truly my disciple. You can't even be a disciple, a follower until you abide in his word. You make his word your home. By the way, you move to another home, guess what? If he's not there, you're not abiding in his word, right? Yeah. So that's step two. Step three, if you are truly my disciple, you will know the truth. So you can't even know what truth is until you become a disciple, truly his disciple. And you can't become a disciple until you abide in his word. And the fourth part of that.

[00:14:21]
 Is what the truth will set you free. Now, just imagine this human being, right? You're in a prison cell because if you're not free, you're in a cell. Mm-hmm. Locked up. Anybody ever been locked up in this room? Oh yeah. Once too many times. Okay? Yeah. Good for you bro. For real. Pretty boy Travis. Never been locked up. Pray. Pray for the better. I do. Well, so imagine that person cell opens and you talk about believers, right? Wow. I got all this freedom now, right? Because I invited him into my life. I know who he is, I'm his disciple. I know what truth is, and now it's set me free and I walk into freedom. Here's what happens. I believe people look back at that cell, say, you know what? It's kind of comfortable in there. Mm-hmm. You know, I had some things that maybe I don't have. Right. Or maybe there's some things that I'm having to do on a daily that maybe I don't feel like doing. Like that glow. Mm-hmm. Right. Whatever it might be. I don't know what the, I don't know what it is, but I believe that people will come back in that cell. And lock themselves back. Into a lack of truth and no longer abiding. 

[00:15:26] Travis Revelle
Yeah. In his word. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think that there's this thought process and kinda like what you said, like, okay, I accepted Jesus. My life is great now. You know what I mean? And Jesus said, there will be trials, right. You will be trials. It's not supposed to be easy to be a Christian. Yeah. Like Christians, you're not supposed to be a part of this world. And so there's challenges that are faced that. Ultimately, right? There's challenges that are faced that you can't just answer, right? You have to have this thing called faith. And you have to rely on this faith to get you through. And that's a big step for a lot of people, right? I mean, it's easy to say, Hey, I believe in Jesus. I believe, you know, he died for my sins and he rose and he said, so you know, at the right hand of the of of God, you can do that. But to truly live a Christian lifestyle is not easy. You're persecuted. I mean, look in the world, right? In the United States. We have it really easy, all things to be a Christian, you know what I mean? You look at other parts of the world and you're getting murdered. You know what I mean? But, but I mean, those are the people who are truly living Christian lives, right? Because they are there putting a line in the sand and they're saying, no, live warm. This is who I am. Right? Like, I will die for this. So yeah, I think it, I think the challenge of being a Christian, the challenge of being holy, the challenge of that, it is not something that is just a one and done.

[00:16:44]
 You have to make. I was running 20 minutes late today, stuck in traffic. I hate being late. Like that drives me crazy to be late. Same. And I'm texting Nate and I'm, and I tell him, I'm like, it's really hard for me to be holy right now. Yeah. You know? But it's a decision you have to constantly make over and over and over when you're facing situations. How am I going to react to this? Right? Yeah. As a Christian. I can't just, you know, have road rage and cut people off and start cussing at people. I mean, that's not who I am. So it's all right. I'm being tested right now, you know, am I going to pass this test? And I'm tested a hundred times a day every single day of life. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's a choice to make. Yeah. To say. You know what? There's traffic. I'm gonna turn up my worship music a little bit louder. I'm gonna thank God because he's stopping me from something possibly negative happening to me, and I'm gonna take this time and I'm gonna use it to worship. You know what I mean? Like that's what I did on my, on my way here and I was 39 minutes late. But you know what? I made it here safe. You're still here before me. I'm still here. So, but I mean, like you said, it's a mental decision you have to make constantly over and over and over and over again to say. Yes, Lord.

[00:17:52] Dr. Nate Salah
It's the renewing of your mind. That's it. It's right there in scripture. And what's, what's that First Corinthians? Mm-hmm. First Corinthians, yeah. Right. So the faith over fear is a real important aspect of, and I want to get to your coffee shop because there's some really cool things happening. Well, well, he just dropped a bunch of good things.

[00:18:09] Mark Joe
Let me just something, one of my favorite questions to challenge. By the way, I mean, you know, just for context to listeners, like I, you know, operate a coffee shop, but we also op, I also am the head of a, a ministry, a nonprofit that sort of works in tandem with my coffee shop and we really deal primarily with young adults. And so one of the things that I love to challenge 'em with is like. But what? What does it mean to believe, you know, what does it look like to believe? Because it's, what you just touched on is so good. 'cause it doesn't cost you anything. Mm-hmm. To say, I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe Jesus died from us. It doesn't cost you anything. And Jesus not only says there will be trials, he says, you'll be persecuted because of my name. 

[00:18:49] Dr. Nate Salah
I wanted to mention about the believing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So years and years ago. 'cause we used to believe something. That's a great statement. However. To believe something is to be living. Oh, yeah. That's good. Something Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. That, that, that's really good. That that's important. Right? So don't say you believe it unless you're actually living it out. Yeah. In practice. Yeah. 'cause there's a, there's that sanctification, right. That is your journey with Jesus. And this is, so much is covered in scripture when, when he says, you know, somebody asks you to walk a mile. What? Walk? Walk two. Walk two. Right. Why? Why? Because that's a process of you are beli out. Mm-hmm. Our journey together. Yeah. In representing me because that's the other thing that's really important in this conversation and I love how I wanna hear more about the young, the young generation. 'cause we're, we're so, we so want to hear the, the good reports and what we're doing and challenging that is that we are representatives.

[00:19:43] Mark Joe
We're ambassadors. 

[00:19:44] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, ambassadors. Right? Isn't that, isn't that what Paul calls us? Calls us, right? Ambassadors of Christ. Ministers of reconciliation. By the way, you don't have to have a degree to be a minister of reconciliation. 

[00:19:53] Mark Joe
Right? That's so good too. Reconciliation. That's something not a lot of people like to like to hear about. You know, forgive, let that go. Mm-hmm. How about that? Yeah. Mm-hmm. I had a post on Instagram that kind of went crazy that it was so, it was so simple, but I just like walked on screen with this cardboard piece of cardboard and I had written on it. You want to teach that person a lesson? They'll never forget, forgive them, you know? And it just, it went crazy because,I saw that post it's counter-cultural. Yeah, but no, you, you're, you're hitting on Exactly. I think what was on my mind, which is just, you know, what does it mean to believe it's so easy? It doesn't cost you anything to say you believe, but. When the rubber hits the road, when you're put in a situation where you're tempted or even your impulse or your habit is to respond one way, you know is to respond the other way. If you know, I like to say like, you know, if you actually believe what you say you believe, I could tell. 'cause this is the way I like to think about it, and I'll challenge 'em too, is like, if Jesus was only the wisest man to ever live, that would actually be less than he said he was. You know what I mean?

[00:20:51]
 So you're, you say you believe that he is who he said he was. You don't even believe that he's the wisest man I ever lived. 'cause if you did, you'd follow his, his teachings. I had a friend, Matt Graham, who was on my podcast at one point, and he kind of eased his way into. Being a full blown, believing Christian follower of Christ. But he told me, mark, I subscribed to the values of Christianity before I subscribed to the mysticism of it. So basically I went through and I started in Matthew and I started reading, you know, and you get to a bunch of Jesus's teachings, which are all countercultural. They were of course countercultural at the time, but they're even more, they were even more countercultural at the time, but they're very countercultural now as well. And so like, forgive. Everybody, right? Or else your father in heaven. Heaven won't forgive you or love your enemies and pray for those who perse you. Or if you even think about a woman who's not your wife, you know you've committed adultery, right? So some of these things, well, he's like, mark, I just went one by one and I started like, you know, I said, you know, lemme try this.

[00:21:54]
 And as I learned one new thing that Jesus taught that I wasn't in the habit of doing, I just tried it. Boom. Like I forgave this person who did something that was unforgivable to me, and all of a sudden Jesus worked a miracle in that relationship and now is the closest person in my life. I stopped thinking about women, not just women. I stopped thinking about my girlfriend at the time. That way we became abstinent, moved out, boom. All of a sudden our relationship wasn't even bad. If you'd asked me, we were gonna get married anyway. You know, we had a good relationship. Jesus works a miracle in that relationship. Now my relationship is better than I could ever imagine, and one by one, one miracle at a time, he told me, it started to become a little bit easier to believe that Jesus turned water into wine. 'Cause he could do all these things with these simple teachings. It was a person who, who's sitting telling me, I had seeds of doubt in my mind. But to me that's what it means to believe is to, is to follow the teachings. Even when you don't understand, like Proverbs three five says is to implement despite what you think is the best path, is to, he believed more than I think most Christians believed, even before he would admit that he believed.

[00:23:06] Dr. Nate Salah
Which is Right. Beautiful. Which is right in line with Jesus' example. Right. Even when he was in the garden. 

[00:23:11] Mark Joe
Yeah. 

[00:23:13] Dr. Nate Salah
I mean, look, you're facing eminent death. 

[00:23:15] Mark Joe
Yeah. Father, take this cup from me. Right, right. One of my favorite verses in scripture, I don't know why I am, I'm kind of, I don't know. I love the, I love the drama, but when he says,now my soul is grieved, but what should I say, father, save me from this hour. But this is why I came to this hour, and I just always, whenever I'm. Trying to bring myself to a place of worship, a heart posture of worship. I think of that 'cause I'm like thinking of him standing outside Jerusalem looking. At the road thinking, all right, I'm about to walk in here and I know exactly what's about to happen, right? I know what's gonna happen. Me, I know exactly what's gonna happen. Save save me from this hour, you know? But this is why I came to this hour and walking in. I just think Jesus is like the, the baddest man for real. Come, I get come. Like, could I come? Could I get a little bit of that come right? He's just a little bit, oh 

[00:24:00] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. Because he could, he could have. Said, you know, I'll wait. Yeah. Or put it off. Go, I'm gonna go over, I'm gonna go over and knock this other stuff out. Right. 

[00:24:08] Travis Revelle
Or I'm just gonna get on this road and walk the other way. You know? No, he said the hour has come. Yeah. 

[00:24:13] Mark Joe
That's it. The hour has come. Oh, it's so good. 

[00:24:16] Travis Revelle
And to be there and to be bleeding or sweating blood. Sweating blood, because you're that like the human side of you. You're just that it's, you know, and to still do it, it's, and to still walk in. 

[00:24:26] Mark Joe
Yeah. It's the cool, I mean, it's the greatest story ever. I mean, it's a greatest story and it's not, you know, it's just. If you just, again, just remind yourself of that daily, it's so hard not to walk with that glow when you just, and you're just keeping that at the forefront.

[00:24:38] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, I think that's, I think that's part of the key. Mm-hmm. Part of the key is. Keeping it at the forefront of your day when Paul says, pray without ceasing. Pray without ceasing. Yeah. He's trying to get us into a posture. And you also mentioned examining yourself. Right? Paul talks about that before you even take communion, or Lord sup, he says, examine yourself. Right. This is that daily self-examination, daily connection with God that you need. It's not, oh, you should try it. Mm-hmm. You need it. It's necessary for the sanctification of your soul. Mm-hmm. And people might say, oh, it's a little over the top. Well, you know, what's more over the top Right. Not living fully in a way that God has designed. The perfection of your life. And, you know, even in the end of, of Matthew, Matthew five, or is it 5 48?the, the very last verse of Matthew, be perfect as your father is perfect. And the Greek for that. Doesn't mean flawless, it means fulfilled. It means it means complete. Yeah. It doesn't means finished, it means mature and finished. Yeah, man, I wanna be that. 

[00:25:52] Mark Joe
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I heard a teacher the other night, I had a Bible. I go to Bible, random Bible studies around the city. I'll just pop in and. This woman, first of all, there's a woman down in South City is 75 years old, been doing a Bible study for like over 30 years on Friday night from seven 30 to 9:30 PM So like this lady, it's, you go and you're like, either these, all these people, it's Friday nights. Nine o'clock at night. I'm like, either all these people are sold out or they really need Jesus. Right. There's no in between. There's between, between. Right, right. But she said finished. We're finished. Works in progress. You know, and I just love the way she said that, but Yeah. You saying tell progress? Yeah. She said we're finished. Right. 

[00:26:30] Dr. Nate Salah
That's the heart posture, right? Yeah, that's the heart posture. Of our, of our walk. And that's where, where Travis is like in traffic and mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's a great example because someone listening's like, yeah, it's happening right now. In fact, in our, our community, our, our G3 community, after you had mentioned that and said, Hey, I'm, you know, this is a day of challenge for me to be holy in our community. I asked, is anyone else being challenged to be holy today? And then one of the community members like. Every minute, day, every day. Yeah, that's 

[00:26:59] Mark Joe
Right. I wanna hear about the community too, by the way. What, what's the, the G3 I, I know I talked to Yeah. Somebody who did I talk to?

[00:27:07] Dr. Nate Salah
I talked to, yeah. One, maybe we talked to one of the members of the community. Yeah. So G3 was an outpouring of our desire to really have Jesus at the center mm-hmm. Of our lives as business people, as professionals, as entrepreneurs, and not as a, Hey, I'll check on you here and there. Rather than, let's put Jesus, if you will, and I wanna say this in a way that's not,sacrilegious in the driver's seat of our lives. And so how do you do that? Well, the authority of everything that he said, the authority of everything that he did, becomes the center focus of the authority of everything we do. That's good as a community. Of leaders and it's all business people in the business world. Yeah. It's all business people. Well, and when you say business people, I mean ministry mm-hmm. Is a business. Just because it's a nonprofit doesn't mean it's not a business. Right. It's a business. Right. So we, we have, so the G3 model stands for grow purposefully. Jesus wants us to walk in full of purpose. Otherwise he, he wouldn't have said, right. That the enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy. But I have come that you should have life and have it what? To the full? Yeah. Right. Full. Right. So that's that fullness of purpose. Two give generously of the time, talent, and treasures were entrusted with. Mm-hmm. Right. Amen. Amen. Because he didn't come here for us to hold on to everything.

[00:28:23]
 He came for us to give it away. Yeah. And then the third G is to go love radically. Mm. Because his love. It fundamentally changed the nature of how we understand that concept. Yeah. That's what we, that's, that's how we, that's the word radical, right? Like you said earlier, pray for those who persecute you do good to those who seek to harm you. Right? All of these aspects of love are antithetical to our common understanding of it, and they are the most liberating. Yeah. And for us as a community, our goal, we do this, why? Why do we do this? For the same reason that every person who stands in front of Jesus when they go to meet him one day wants to hear those most blessed of words. Well done, well done. Good and faithful. Amen. Servant. 

[00:29:15] MidTro Ad
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[00:29:56] Mark Joe
I love that man. That's awesome. It's killing me that I can't, he's gonna hear this probably, but I, that I can't remember who introduced me to, to you guys, but, um, oh, JR. Jr. That's it. Yeah. Okay. So when, um, when we were talking, I told them like, you know, just because of kind of how much attention Oman has gotten here in our little small community, I get invited sometimes to these like,these brunches and lunches by, you know, Christian business owners and. I came home after the last one I went to. I came home and I told my wife like, I'm not going to anymore of these lunches. I'm not gonna anymore. Like, because I say yes to almost every thing. Every time somebody's like, Hey, I want like Chris that we were talking about earlier. Hit me up. No clue who this guy is. Hey, can I come down? I wanna talk to you. 'Cause I just don't know what's a divine appointment. Right? And I have, I trust that the Lord's gonna gimme discernment in those. Meetings, you know, andsomething that I had to early on in my walk that I had to steadily, consistently remind myself of is Jesus was never in a hurry and he always welcomed an interruption, you know, and even if he was going to the market and somebody stopped him on the way, the person who stopped him on the way was actually what he was there to do.

[00:31:04]
 It wasn't actually to go to the market. And so I just try to remind myself of that. 'cause a lot of times I'll. Brush people off. But I came home, I told my wife, look, I'm not going to any more of those, you know, and I was kind of venting to her and frustrated. And it was because a lot of times they would invite me because they're aware of what we're doing at Omen, and they say, oh man, you know, in concept they want to talk about how they can show up as C, you know, put their faith forward in their businesses. And I said, every single one so far, I'm the least successful person at the table. My business is the newest, it's the smallest. It's all these things. Here I, I wanna talk about marketplace ministry. I want to talk about how do we put our faith forward. For me, it doesn't, whatever it costs, I'm gonna keep talking about Jesus. Even if Jesus says, okay, this is the end of, oh, my coffee, then so be it. I want other business owners when, or people, when they talk to me to walk away with the impression that that dude will burn his business down tomorrow if the Lord told him to. Mm-hmm. You know? I find myself at these tables and it's like, it's a little, it's a lot of posturing.

[00:32:04]
 It's a lot of like, you know, talking about, you know, our faith and having a chaplain come to the office just in case somebody needs prayer. That's great. And I'm not knocking that, but as business owners. We just reach so many people. We touch so many people. It's, we could do and we, if we, again, if you really believe what you say you believe, you know, if you believe that this is the only way and you care about your customers and you care about what Jesus has called us to do. You would just think that people would just be more willing to put their faith forward in business and I think that they, I know that they would be surprised at how receptive their customer base is to talking about that stuff. 

[00:32:44] Dr. Nate Salah
Absolutely. Yeah. And this is, I'm glad you brought that up because. 

[00:32:48] Mark Joe
Oh, and I brought that up to say I was suspicious that G3 was like, was like that. Like he, he, he reached out to me and I said, look man, I really don't do the mm-hmm. The Christian business owner thing. Right. Just because this has been my experience so far. And he was like, nah, I think, I think you like that. 

[00:33:02] Dr. Nate Salah
You gonna be, you go, you're gonna be all right. Well here's, here's what we do. And we do a monthly master class for people who aren't a part of the community as well as community members. And it's shocking. You know, people, it's shocking when they get on. They're like, oh, I didn't expect this.'cause I expect, okay. Because part of what we endeavor to do, and I mean know the whole be and be holy, even the, the, the original in first Peter be is to becoming right. Yeah. Becoming right. So you don't just like wake up one day and you're like, oh, I'm holy now. Right. It's becoming, it's, it's, the way I like to describe it is holiness is an orientation. Mm-hmm. Not a destination. Yeah. Right. So you orient yourself in a space, if you will, of holiness. And that's really just in the presence of God. And here's the beauty of it, right. Just like when Moses stepped on that mountain. Right, and God's presence was there. What did God say to mountain to Moses about his sandals? He said, take your shoes off. Right? Take them off. That's so, that's so gangster. Come on. I'm not gonna lie. That's, come on. I love, come on, take your shoes off because you're on holy ground. That's so good. You're on holy ground, right?

[00:34:03]
 You're in. And what makes it holy ground? The presence. The presence of God. The presence of God. Okay, so, so, so fast forward. What did Jesus leave us with when he ascended to heaven? The Holy Spirit, his presence. His presence that indwells within us, right? Mm-hmm. So guess what? Hello. Welcome to the table. You are holy ground. You are holy ground. That means your business is holy ground. Mm-hmm. Consecrated. Jesus did not come to condemn you. He came to consecrate you. Mm-hmm. He did not come to shame you. He came to shape you. Mm-hmm. And he came to shape your business, your marketplace. I believe that business as missions is such a fertile ground. It's so fertile, and so let's get authentic. Let's get back to the source. Let's get real. Let's identify that, as Travis had said, put a stake in the ground and say, Hey, look, you know what? I'm not gonna knock it outta the park every time, but thank God for unmerited favor and unlimited grace. I know because he's gonna be there with me even as I veer left, veer right. And I turn back right to him again. Mm-hmm. And that's attractive. Yeah. I think to the business owner, especially in what we're doing. So what we do, mark. As we look at four pillars of life, if you will, right? We call 'em our four health pillars. Your spiritual health comes first. 

[00:35:25]
Your physical health and your emotional health, we call it mental health. Mental health, physical health, financial health. Those are all pillars of life, right? Because you need all of those things and Jesus talks about all those things. Right? So imagine those pillars holding up a house and inside the house are your primary relationships, your life, right? We, we have four primary relationships in our life, our relationship with God. Whether or not we honor that relationship. Yeah. Our relationship with our families, our relationship with our community. Social, civic. Mm-hmm. Right. church and relationship with our business so often, and I've been guilty of this, we put the business relationship first and then everything else goes on the side burner. Why? Because we wanna make a provision and we think the provision is essential. And we know what Paul said. You don't work, you don't eat. So we know that that's noble. However, what happens? The business then becomes the idol, it becomes the object, it becomes the God. And so what we wanna do is we wanna dispel that myth that that needs to come first. No relationship with God first. Mm-hmm. Then family and then community. Yes. Even for business. Why? Because if your friendships can help you to speak life into your world, guess what? It's naturally gonna pour into a healthy and thriving business. Yeah. By the way, not your business. God's business. 

[00:36:41] Mark Joe
That's right.

[00:36:42] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. Ooh. And and if he says Burn it down Right, burn it down, it's his business. He's gonna build something else. 

[00:36:47] Mark Joe
Right. Oh man, that's it. That's it. And, and you know, even when you're, again, even when I'm talking to Christian business owners, you could just tell that that's not the heart. Postures. Sometimes again, it lights me on fire. 'Cause I'm just, it's a movie bro. Just like, it's not yours. It's not yours. It's not, you know, I know some other. Like sort of high volume, brick and mortar retail models, like a coffee shop that they are on fire for the Lord. And I've met with them and talked to them and it's, it's so cool to see. And you know, 'cause it's just a contrast to, to the people who are just posturing at, at these lunches. Right. You know, and I'm just like, oh, you're, oh, you'll burn it down too. Okay. Yeah. It's amazing. Right. 

[00:37:24] Dr. Nate Salah
Tell us about what's happening in your world, man. We want to hear about the people you're, you're, you're engaged with and, and, 'cause you know, Travis had mentioned. I mean, it's pretty insane. 

[00:37:31] Travis Revelle
It's in, it's intense. Yeah. No, I fi I mean, I, I go to omen, you know what I mean? Like, I love, I love the coffee, I love the space. I love, I love the people that are there. And then great social media following. I see what you guys are doing with your, with, especially the, the young, I call young, right? I'm 45, so if you're, you know, if you're, if you're, if you're 25 to 35, right? You're you're young. Yeah. You're young. You're young, you know what I mean? Like you're young, you know. But to see it on social media, to see your, your, your worship services that you guys have and, and you just had a band there the other like last week, like 

[00:38:01] Mark Joe
Yeah, two, two nights ago actually. Yeah. Yeah. Two nights ago we had a worship night and I think 200 young adults showed up. That's amazing.

[00:38:08] Travis Revelle
Yeah. Do you know how many churches would be so stoked to have 200 young people, like in their building?

[00:38:13] Mark Joe
I, you know, I know it's interesting. And the Lord has, for whatever reason, yeah. We were talking about this before we came on air, you know, just my. Story and circumstances I've, I've been carried through and, and some of the realizations I've had to have along the way, it just made me uniquely qualified. You know, they say, you know, he doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies. Just made me uniquely qualified to talk to and appeal to even my, even the way I look like I look younger than I am. Mm-hmm. You know, and so for whatever reason they just listen to me and they look to me for guidance and example and it's sometimes that can feel like a lot of pressure, but then I just remind myself, it's not me, it's him. It's fine, but yeah, it's cool. It's just this young adult demographic specifically, and I have noticed since coming into the church world that this is the demographic that churches really typically and I think historically struggled to keep engaged the most. 

[00:39:07] Mark Joe
That it's that, you know, 18 to 34, I would say, or 35 that. They, you know, are no longer their parents' kid at church and you know, their faith usually at some point has to become their own. Mm-hmm. They're either in college or right out of college and still starting their life. And so career is a lot of times the first thing at their, it's either school is their top priority or work is their top priority, and so I go to pastors in town and I just say, Hey, look, like I know that you guys struggled to keep this group engaged. We seem for whatever reason to be keeping this group engaged pretty well. Like, let's work together. You send 'em to me during the week and I'll send 'em back to you on Sunday. Because I feel like that's good because I feel like the Lord has given me a lot of clarity around the what we do. The purpose we serve and what we're not gonna do. We're like, I, I have no desire to plan a church. You know, so you don't have to feel threatened by me. Which it's sad to say, but in the church world, I've noticed there's a lot of insecurity around that stuff.

[00:40:03] Travis Revelle
A ton of insecurity. It, it's crazy, man. Crazy.

[00:40:05] Mark Joe
It's like, are we building your kingdom or God's kingdom? I just, I don't understand. But that's literally what I sell them. But all this started, we weren't even a Christian coffee shop when. We opened, but I will say this, the concept, the, the community oriented, the, you know, mission-driven, purpose-driven concept, it, it, it was, it was from day one and it wasn't my idea, you know, it's the Lord's idea, but that's what we opened it for. We were, um, on, it was 2022 tail end of COVID, or at least the, not necessarily the, the scare, but definitely the culture of COVID. I'm looking around and it just seemed like, you know, social tension was at an all time high, like worse than I'd ever seen it. And you guys are older and maybe you've seen it different, but it seemed like there was BLM at that time. There was defund the police. Mm-hmm. There was all the COVID nonsense. Well at least I call it nonsense. No, it's, but, and even there was this gender ideology was getting really hot. So there's tension between blacks and whites. There's tension between administration and civilians. There's tension between people who bought into COVID science and people who were resistant to it.

[00:41:23]
 And so it was so toxic and the gender id, oh my gosh, that's the tension. There was so great too between the transgender community and the general public and then also the LGBT community and their advocates and the gen general public. They were trying to start teaching thing kids, different things in schools, different books, and so I'm looking around. And I'm like, man, this is so toxic because I'm just old enough to remember a time when like, you could agree to disagree with somebody mm-hmm. And still be friends with them, right? Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Yes. Like I, I was in, in and outta the foster system for the first 11 years of my life. When I was 11, I got adopted by a foster family permanently, and my foster dad is just greatest guy ever, but he, he worked for General Electric, so he wasn't like a plumber or an electrician by trade, but he's very handy. And so my whole life, and we were poor my whole life, he was always the guy that people would call, like if a pipe burst or you know, some the power went out, they would call him because our neighbors were poor too.

[00:42:21]
 They couldn't afford to just call a plumber or anything like that. So I can literally remember nights at. Two, three o'clock in the morning, middle of the night, the landline rings. My dad, you know, picks it up and oh, the neighbor's pipe burst in their basement and they're, they're flooding their basement. Okay. And my dad in that moment, he didn't care if you were gay or straight or Democrat or Republican or whatever you were, he just. Get outta bed, put his boots on and go fix the person's pipe or whatever. And, and I can, I can remember that, you know, I can remember seeing kids running around. Oh, those are the Johnson's kids. Or a woman, oh, that's Nancy. She works at the post office. Like, you know your neighbors, you are there for them. Like even if we di disagree on God and gender and all these things, politics, you're still my neighbor. And so like. 95% of what's in your best interest is also in my best interest. And so back then we were good at having the conversations and getting on the same page about the 95%.

[00:43:24]
 Like what do we think about taxes? Like, you know, we should support the police, right? We all want to have a safe neighborhood. And you know, there's just these big topics. If we just got all got these situated as a community, everybody's quality of life goes up, and then we can argue about these 5% of things that really don't affect most people's lives over here afterwards. But it seems like now we spend 95% of our time arguing about the 5% of things that we disagree on, and we neglect the 95% of the things that really. Would be in everybody's favor to get on the same page about, and so society's just in disarray social tensions that we try to have these conversations online. That's just not a place to have a, an emotionally charged conversation with a thousand people, the peanut gallery looking in and commenting, and so I just, I saw all this happening, and then at the same time, there's just a mental health crisis in America. Loneliness, anxiety, depression, all these things were at an all time high, but not just those, what I would call low level mental health.

[00:44:33]
 Situations, but also things like gender dysphoria, schizophrenia, everything is going up steadily. Right. And I just, I had this, just this moment of clarity where I was like, I think at the root of the problem is the fact that we just don't talk to each other anymore. Mm-hmm. Like we don't, we don't talk to other humans face to face. And we were, you know, again, the, the mask mandates and everything. It had us in that moment of time, we would walk around in public and when you, I don't care what anybody says, and I don't even care. The science aside about whether or not masks helps slow the, the spread of COVID or transmission of COVID, the science aside, when you see somebody with a mask, it subconsciously does something to you. It says, oh, that person's dirty. That person's contagious. That person's, we repel one another. Okay. The social distancing kind of happens at a. Organically because it's just what it does to you. And so we were just sort of in that moment of time, we didn't talk to each other. And so I, I mind you, I had at the time, I had a job that people would consider a dream job on paper.

[00:45:37]
 I mean, I, my job was essentially to be a liaison to these ultra well-known social media influencers for the company that I worked for. And so they. Like I, my job was to recruit them to the company and whatever I had to do to get them to sign on, I could do so. I'd travel all over the United States and when I'd get there, let's say they're sent me to Miami for an event and I'm, I got a target, I got the company card, I got wine, them dine them. You know, I can go to all the nicest hotels, all the nicest restaurants, all on the company's dime. That was my job all the time, and I just get to hang out with these people that everybody follows and looks up to and I make. 200,000, you know, two 50 a year. Okay. So good job, living comfortable. And I just couldn't shake it. And mind you, 'cause I'm working with social media influencers, I like lived in social media world, right? Mm-hmm. And I just couldn't shake one day I said to my boss, like, man, I just wanna build community in real life. Mm-hmm. Like, because I was like selling this idea that these influencers. Should be a part of our online community.

[00:46:41]
 And then one day I just said, an online community is not a real thing. I just don't, I just don't think that it's, it's not, not in the sense that we want it to be. Mm-hmm. We want it. FaceTiming your mom and saying hello is not the same as stopping by for dinner. Come on. You know what I mean? Having a conversation with somebody online or even just watching your favorite influencer's social media story, even if they're sitting there talking on camera, it's not the same as sitting down and having coffee with somebody. And I think that that's. Really what was at the root of like this mental health crisis, the social tension and everything. And so I quit the dream job. I didn't knew nothing about coffee, didn't know anything about coffee. I'm talking like I pulled my first shot of espresso. 10 days before we opened, like nothing. I just knew that like a third space was going to have to be the space that that happened. And through COVID, people not only lost their third spaces, but they also lost their second spaces. 'cause a lot of people, they home from home and then they started working remotely. So now they work from home and then they stopped going out and socializing because of.

[00:47:43]
 COVID mandates, you know, and so they're working from home, they're homing from home and they're socializing from home on their phone and, and that is just a recipe for social disaster and just a mental health crisis. And so I opened the coffee shop and. As you might imagine, it's, you know, on the backend, the business side of it is just a disaster because I don't know what I'm doing, don't know what to price my, my menu item. Like, I don't know. I know nothing. Even my coffee, like now, if I tried my coffee that I, that I launched with now I'm like, what was I thinking? You know, it's terrible and people bought it, right? Yeah. You know, and it's, and I'm like, what were you guys thinking? You know? Um, and so we get into it, mind you this whole time. So I'd been like, um. Like a new age. I would describe it as new age, um, believer for like seven, eight years at that point. And what I mean by that specifically for me, 'cause I think that that term can kind of have a variety of meanings, but I wasn't like, you know, into astrology and stuff like this. But what I mean by that is that I was sure that God was real.

[00:48:50]
 I thought that all, I thought religion was just a, a hoax, you know? I just thought it was like a control mechanism, whatever. When I was in prison, I, I just got interested in the question about like his god real, and so I read a variety of religious texts and from like the Quran, you know, obviously the Bible, Bava Gita, you know, and then just a ton of. Theological philosophy. And so I kind of just went down the rabbit hole. I had nothing to do, but read books all the time. And so and so at that time I concluded and there's an important detail, but I concluded that everybody is just worshiping the same thing. Everybody agrees. Everybody in this world agrees that God is real. And so I'm just gonna like rest on the thing that we can all agree on. Mm-hmm. And the disagreements, you know, I'm just, I'll reserve my judgment till later. And so at that time, I developed like a really vibrant prayer life. And I would wake up, I'm at 4:00 AM every day in prison. Prison is so noisy. It's the, it's just such a chaotic and loud environment that, like, I started on accident.

[00:49:58]
 I started waking up at like four o'clock in the morning when everybody was still asleep and it, and I hadn't experienced quiet. I hadn't experienced silence in years, and I realized it, and so then I got addicted to that. I started waking up at 4:00 AM and, and when I say my prayer life was vibrant, I would the first thing, you know, sometimes you have a conscious thought before you actually open your eyes like you're awake, but you're not like ready to like really get it going yet. You know, the before I'd even open my eyes, I thank you Lord. You know, thank you. Like that's. My, my prayer life was, was sincere. It was earnest, it was good. And I'd roll off my cot and I'd get on my hands and knees and I'd pray every morning. And I was sure that God was real. I could see the way he was working in my life. But if you asked me if I was a Christian, I'd be like, no, I'm, I'm a believer. And really the, that was kind of rooted. Now, it's so clear to me in retrospect, but there was somebody in my life who was like a sold out Christian. You know, I, I guess he would say, and. Just talk about Jesus all the time, posts about Jesus on, you know, Instagram and all these things, but behind closed doors, this was not really a good person.

[00:51:05]
 You know, like I, I know you, you know? Mm-hmm. And if that's what a Christian man is, well, I'm not that, you know, like that, that's what deterred me from adopting Christianity because I, I had, I was aware of what set Christianity apart, and I love it, the fact that there's unlimited grace. Unlimited forgiveness. You know, it was explained to me early on, like, you have a Muslim, a Jew, and a Christian, you know, and you, you steal something at the market, you know, and well, the Muslim, the Quran tells chop off their hand. And the Torah, you know, is, there's a, there's a punishment, right?but in Christianity, if you stole a loaf of bread, give him another loaf just in case he needs, and that just, it just resonated with me at the time. But all the examples of Christian men that I saw, they just weren't people that I aspired after Now. Now I know of course, that Jesus is the one to aspire after. These are just men, however. That might shed some light on why I'm so on fire, talking to Christians about how we should represent Christ, because yes, we're called to be ambassadors.

[00:52:15]
 We're, you know, we've been gi we've been commissioned to go and make disciples of all the nations and, and your most powerful testimony to the power and the goodness of God is how you show up every day. And that's just, it's why that's such an important thing to me. Anyway, so I opened the coffee shop and I, I was like my friend Matt, I subscribed to the values of Christianity, but I didn't really subscribe to the label. And so right out of the gate, we were in this culturally heated moment for a variety of reasons. And I, um, was in the habit of just participating in these, these public discussions about all kinds of. Hot topics, whether it was COVID, you know, I had my opinions about the vaccine and about mask mandates, and I had my opinion about gender and all these things. And a lot of it is, the gender thing specifically is what got us a lot of attention because I started there, there's a coffee shop two blocks down the road from us and I lived, I lived at the, at the time, above my coffee shop. So like this is my neighborhood. Like for all I know, this is where I'm gonna raise my family.

[00:53:21]
 The coffee shop two blocks down was hosting a drag show, an Easter themed drag show for kids, and so I'm like. Can we talk about, can we talk about it? It's so weird that in that moment of time you guys will remember, like, you couldn't even ask a question, right? Like an earnest question. You couldn't even ask an earnest question without being attacked or, or vilified. And so I just wanted to ask like, what's the purpose? Like what are we trying to accomplish here? 'cause it just doesn't say, I can't see it. I just can't see what your guys' heart posture is, and to me it looks predatory. Mm-hmm. So can somebody please just clarify for me? Man, they hated. I mean, this is two months after we opened. So not only did I not know anything about coffee, I didn't know anything about this business. But now I'm online going sword fighting with people about this. And I said, look, you know, at the end of the day if you asked me about gender, I'd say God only made he my belief. And at the time, even before I was a Christian, I would answer.

[00:54:21]
 Look, I just don't believe that God made a mistake when He made you the way he made you. Mm-hmm. I just, I can't come to, to believe that look around at all creation. Mm-hmm. Like when you see a, the most beautiful sunset you've seen, you think that happened on accident, you see you're on top of a mountain and you're, you look up and you see the stars. You think none of that is, is on accident, dude. Have you ever thought about how. Infinitely complex. Your body is, we don't even understand fully how our brains work. And I mean, we're discovering new things all the time. And you think that, that, that he, that the person that created you. He made a mistake with your gen? No, I can't come to that. And people hated me for that. 

[00:55:01] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, and I can, I can see how that would develop in that way. And what's fascinating about your journey to this point is the theme that's developing is espe. We talk a lot about this in business. We make a lot of plans. Make a lot of plans. Make a lot of plans. Your plan was obedience. Yeah, it was. That obedience was going to take you wherever the road took you with Jesus, no matter how it took you there. And no matter how much trials, tribulations you were gonna face mm-hmm. You were walking it with Jesus, which is really good cliffhanger position to,to, to pick this back up on a subsequent episode. Sure. 'cause I think our listener is gonna be like, well, wait a minute. What happened after that drag queen? Show, I think,we would love to have a part two and, and yeah. And bring this to the next stage of how this developed and became the ministry it is today. 

[00:55:56] Mark Joe
Yeah, I do think it's just important. I mean, the only thing I would, I would add to what you were just saying is like, at the time I still was, was running from Jesus, and it's just, I like adding that note. Because I opened a coffee shop, I didn't know anything about coffee. And you, if you ask me then, you know, I'd just be like, I don't know. I just feel like I'm supposed to do this. And so you're right in saying. Characterizing it as obedience, not to give myself a pat on the back. It just is what it is because I didn't have an explanation for why we're getting into coffee. It's not a incredibly profitable business, but I felt like the Lord was just pulling me. And it's, it's just a testament to like, you know, you can be ob, you can, the Lord is not gonna,he's with you even before you're fully surrendered. He's with, he's just. He's got his hand on your life. And I just think that, that whenever I think about the story or tell this story, I'll just like to highlight that. Like I wasn't even, I was running from Jesus and he was still pulling me. And there's some people right now that you're running from Jesus and he's still pulling you. And if you just. If you just give in, you know, he's gonna pull you into a place of purpose is really what. 

[00:56:59] Dr. Nate Salah
Amen. Yeah. Obedience doesn't have to be conscious. It doesn't even have to be something that you're 100% in. Like, oh, I'm gonna be obedient to God today. It's more oftentimes, especially in those early days and even through your life, that God nudges you. Mm-hmm. And you know, you might hit a little, it's almost like playing Plinko. Wow. Right? Yep. Price is right. 90 is right. You have to, yeah. Bob Barker. I was too young. But you know, you get bumped. Yeah. You get bumped and you're like, okay, I'm gonna go with it. Okay. I'm gonna, I'm, I dunno where it's taking me. Mm-hmm. I dunno where it's taking me. I think that's called faith. 

[00:57:35] Mark Joe
I think that's called faith. 

[00:57:38] Dr. Nate Salah
I think so. I think that's a good, nice five letter word. Brother Mark. Can't wait to get part two. Rolling. 

[00:57:42] Mark Joe
Yeah, no, this was amazing. I appreciate you guys,having me out and I hope it was enjoyable. 

[00:57:46] Dr. Nate Salah
Oh, man. Wing man, Travis. Yeah. Good. Thanks brother. Yeah, thank you. Amen. 

[00:57:49] Travis Revelle
Thanks, mark. 

[00:57:50] Dr. Nate Salah
All right. Thank you so much for supporting this program. I'd like to pray for you for just a moment. That God realigns the heart away from pressure, pride, performance back to his presence. Let us grow in God's wisdom. Let us give from our overflow and let us go love radically in every place God sends us. Make us holy Lord, set us apart, not just successful, but surrendered. In Jesus name, amen.

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Dr. Nate Salah

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