A Call To Leadership

EP300: Responding to God's Nudge Part 2 with Mark Joe

• Dr. Nate Salah

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When faith meets resistance, the fire reveals what’s real. In this continuation with Mark Joe, we uncover the cost of conviction and the courage to stand firm when culture pushes back. His story shows how purpose is refined under pressure and how hope still shines through the struggle. Tune in to hear what bold, grounded faith looks like when it’s tested.


 Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • The real cost of conviction and what happens when you speak truth with love in a world that resists it
  • How a simple coffee shop became a powerful marketplace ministry that impacts its city
  • Why free speech and genuine tolerance must include room for disagreement and dialogue
  • The power of pairing bold faith with humility, reflection, and repentance in leadership
  • How consistent gatherings for worship, prayer, and community can spark transformation and visible fruit

About Mark Joe
Mark is the founder of Omen Coffee, a community-centered coffee shop in St. Louis that serves as both a gathering place and a ministry for young adults. After never attending church until the age of 30, he discovered his faith through Scripture and transformed his life through daily surrender and obedience to God. Today, he leads Omen Coffee and a nonprofit ministry that works together to foster real human connection, discipleship, and authentic conversations about faith and purpose.


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[00:00:00] Mark Joe
You don't have to know everything. I didn't know everything, but I made a commitment to myself that as I learn, I'm gonna do my best to apply. That's it. That's all that I'm asking. That's all the Lord is asking. That's all anybody can ask of you, but just don't read it and then forget about it. Don't read it and pretend like you didn't just read it.

[00:00:19] Dr. Nate Salah
Hello, my friend, and welcome to this episode of A Call to Leadership. I'm Dr. Al, your host, so glad you are here while special, special treat on this episode, series two parts with my bro. Other Mark Joe. I've got Travis on the first episode with us doing some co-hosting and, mark, man, he's been through it. He's, went through the foster care system, dealt drugs, went to prison for five and a half years, turned his life over to God and man, he's never looked back. He's on fire. He is got his coffee shop. It's so much more than that. It's a gathering place to discover, rediscover authenticity with. His relationship and your relationship, my relationship with our savior.

[00:01:04]
 So I can't wait for you to listen in. Make sure you listen to both parts of you. This is, you're coming in on the second one. Definitely go into the first. He really inspires and I know it will bless you today. Brother Mark, welcome back. Hey, thank you. Part two, man. Yes. Yes, sir. We left off with resistance. Yeah, yeah. Just getting rolling on how there's resistance when you get deeper into your walk and your business and your ministry. Yeah. We're all, we're not, none of us are strangers to it. It's actually wild. 

[00:01:39] Mark Joe
Since we were last recorded, we've actually. Kind of like went through, cancel culture all over again, which is not the first time you as a seasoned, well-read Christian. You'll think that this is probably funny. I think you'll probably think it's funny, right? So, you know, I could tell the old story, tell the new story, but this is the, this is characterized, this type of resistance, this type of hostility has been, you know, what's characterized our entire. Experience at the coffee shop. I mean, seriously, from the first time that there were Reddit threads and Twitter threads and Instagram posts about us, that like got a lot of attention. I mean, I've had news stories about us. First time was about two months after we opened. So from that moment. So now it has not stopped, and we're almost three years later.

[00:02:28]
 But just recently, I, sat through a, we had, we had some guest pastors, like some well-known Instagram pastors that were traveling around the country. They're from Australia originally. A lot of their area of ministry is like biblical masculinity. Biblical femininity and marriage. Like what do those three look like? And they preach on that all over the world. So they, we, we hosted them at the coffee shop through Safe St. Louis, our ministry. And, you know, they gave a, a fire, I mean, they're fiery. They're 28 years old, you know, still kinda just on, you know, fire and, and quite honestly, I think that. I'm a little bit older than them and I just, I've been that way. I've been a super abrasive. I think their communication could be a little bit more graceful. But anyway, we had them in and they revealed some information to me. This is what I think that you'll think is funny, which is that the rainbow is actually a biblical symbol. Like the reason I think No, the flood.

[00:03:23]
 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So the reason why I think. That when I say that, I know a lot of seasoned Christians kind of chuckle because apparently everybody knows this, but I didn't, like, I, I'd read the, I'd read Genesis, but I just must have never connected the, the two and put together the irony. Right. With, with like, that's the pride flag now. And I grew up in that era where the only thing I think of when I see the rainbow is the pride flag. I don't think, God, I don't think, you know, God's promises and, and his covenant with us, I think. Pride flag. Right? And in fact, 

[00:03:54] Dr. Nate Salah
You've seen old, , there's like a lot of old shirts with Noah and the, the Animals with the Rainbow, which is from back in the day. Yes. From the day. 

[00:04:02] Mark Joe
Right. And I never, I never connected the two. And so. So anyway, I, I learned that information and I just, it really sunk in. And so two days later, it was like Wednesday, I, I was walking through the Grove, which is a, the area in St. Louis that is known for like all of its gay bars, and there's a lot of presence there. It's kind of like a gay neighborhood. I mean, you know, no other way to say it, but I'm walking through the grove and there's p pride flags everywhere. And so I, I remembered that and I made this video on my Instagram, on my personal Instagram and I said, man, isn't it, you know, it's just so crazy. It's so ironic. I just, I just learned this and I kind of pulled the scripture up on the screen and I'm like, look, you know, this is supposed to be a biblical symbol, and it's just crazy how, you know the enemy will take something that God gave us and mold it into, into. His own use, you know, completely misrepresent the truth.

[00:04:53] Dr. Nate Salah
And that had to get some serious, well.

[00:04:54] Mark Joe
I talked about the irony and stuff like that, but I, I was so intentional because we've been canceled in the past to make this like, this is not an anti-gay video. This is not a anti private, it was more of like a, it was, it was geared towards a Christian, it was Christian oriented. So it was like, man, is this crazy? Have you ever, have you ever heard this? And what a, what, how ironic, what a coincidence that it's the same two things, right? And man, that video went crazy. I'm talking about went crazy. We had people, they were, again, they were trying to plan a protest out in front of our place. I had people who. By the grace of God had they used to be in like Antifa circles, like they, they had been part of the riots that were here in St. Louis, but they were saved. They have come to Jesus, surrendered their life to Jesus, and so now they're still in these communication networks and they were reaching out to me saying, mark, be careful. Like people, these Antifa people in St. Louis are really, you know, are really nasty. That's the kind of, that's the message I got. And then I got another one from a gay person who has their life surrendered to Jesus as well. That was saying like, Hey, you know, I just want you to know, they said, one, not, not all the gay community feels this way about you, but two, like they're planning like a pop-up drag show in front of your place. Like they just want to drag. So, I mean, I'm, I'm talking like, but the hostility that we were met with online, so we, we received like 51 star Google reviews overnight. 

[00:06:19] Dr. Nate Salah
Which they weren't. 

[00:06:20] Mark Joe
Even from people who have never been to the coffee shop, never stepped foot in the coffee shop at all, like 51 star Google reviews, there's five different Reddit threads with hundreds of comments on each one of them, all about us. There's a TikTok post that somebody made about how horrible we are and how we hate people, and we're, and we need to move out to Wentzville and to the country or whatever. The TikTok has like a quarter million views. I mean, it was just going crazy and, . The craziest thing is when I, even, even now when I watch the video, 'cause there's been a lot of fallout in my personal life at the coffee shop. I mean, everywhere I was still, I'll watch the video and be like, but this isn't even offensive. Like the craziest thing is they're not offended by any, by my tone or by my intentions. They're offended by the information they're hostile towards the gospel, like towards the truth. Like I just matter-of-factly, presented some information.

[00:07:14]
 In a way that was not aggressive or anything. And it's crazy because I've made it a habit of being hostile towards sin no matter what it looks like. Like if you're in my circle, circle, you know, like if you're struggling with porn, I'm on you about that. And I know. And I, Hey, how you been doing? You know, if you struggle with anger or if you struggle with whatever it is that you struggle with addiction and you're trying to stay sober, you know, I'm hostile towards sin in myself and everyone around me, and I post videos about this stuff. I can post about anything, but the moment I post about the L-G-B-T-Q community, there's just this hostility that we're met with, and it makes me, it doesn't make me wonder, I don't have to speak like that here. It almost confirms for me that there's a spiritual element to the resistance there, like the hostility that we are met with when we bring, when we bring it up. But yeah, I mean that's, that's the type of, I mean, that's not the first time, that's not the only topic. This is like people planning protests, Antifa talking about us, talking about how our coffee shop is a problem. That's what he put in quotes. It's a problem. And I'm like, dude, I'm just trying to like, I'm just trying to minister to people, man.

[00:08:23]
 I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to spread Jesus, tell people about Jesus and if I have to, you know, stand firm through hostility and confrontation, I will. But that's not my goal. But yeah, man, I mean that's, it's not the first time that they've planned a protest and and, and, and it's been that type of hostility. I mean, I was at the farmer's market. Lemme tell you this one, I was at the farmer's market several months ago and I, and I was just sitting there eating my little tamale, you know, that these people had, and I had a woman that I've never seen before, walk straight up to me and said, I heard you hate people. My friends told me that you have a cult over there. I mean, I'm at the farmer's market on a Saturday morning with my wife. You know, that's the type of. Waves that we're creating in, in downtown, in, in the city of St. Louis. I think that's where we left off. I was telling her about how we got the coffee shop started, but then just immediately met with resistance from the city and from the people who live here.

[00:09:19]
 And it almost has been, it's been discouraging. It's been so hard. I mean so hard, so heavy, so hard. My wife wishes we would close the coffee shop. Seriously. Like, I mean, it doesn't make us any money. We make enough money to pay the bills. I've had to work a side job just to support our family. But like, I keep coming to the Lord, like, oh, are you done with this yet? Like, because we're so tired. We're so tired and we, we want to serve the Lord. But like, why does it, why does everybody wanna make us feel like we're bad people for doing this? You know, this whole time. I mean, it's been constant resistance. So yeah, man, I've been, it's gotta, 

[00:09:53] Dr. Nate Salah
It's gotta, it's gotta feel heavy.

[00:09:54] Mark Joe
It is heavy. I mean, dude, this week has been really hard week. I mean, it is a really hard week because we're one week removed from. Last week was when all the cancel stuff is going on and we're one week, week removed from it. And I mean, we're seeing the consequences in our personal relationships. Like there's people who are like, oh, but why does he have to talk about that stuff? Why does he have to post about it? Right. And I'm like. If I don't post about that, then I shouldn't post about anything. I'm not gonna post about everything I feel compelled to speak about. And then when this topic comes up, say, oh no, but I can't talk about that topic because that topic's off limits for me. It feels unacceptable that I can talk about every other type of sin, but I can't talk about this sin because God forbid we offend anybody. So we've seen it, and I mean, I mean people very close to us have been like, Hey, I need to, I need to some distance from you, people who call themselves Christians. That's the part that's the most hurtful is like, man, but like we're supposed to honor God. It's not God honoring to bow down to people who not only don't know God, but don't serve God and actively reject God. I've had a really hard week, man, a really hard week. 

[00:11:06] Dr. Nate Salah
You know, when you face these kind of struggles, and first of all, it takes a lot of bravery to speak. In a way that you know will have consequences. Yeah. Your intention was never to offend, so to speak. Right? Yeah. Your intention was never to cause division. Your intention was not to bring this kind of negative backlash on the ones you love. Yeah. None of that. Your intention was to simply share a fact. Mm-hmm. And from what I'm understanding, yeah, like fact is the symbol. Shows up in Genesis is actually a biblical symbol. The symbol shows up in Genesis. Yeah. The symbol also shows up in culture. 

[00:11:47] Mark Joe
In culture, and it's been perverted, and I said in the video, I think it's been perverted by the enemy, right? That there's the enemy tactics. I, I've read in. Romans one where, you know, Paul talks about exchanging the truth about God for a lie. And that's, that's what it feels like to me is we're as a culture, we as a people, we've exchanged the truth about God for a lie. 

[00:12:06] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, and there's a lot of conversation around, you know, even the word pride in and of itself, right? In Christian circles. In the proverbs, what does it say? You know, , pride comes before destruction, right? Hottiness before the fall. So there's that piece there that has a distinguishing negativity, if you will, from a Christian perspective, right? Yeah. Love is patient. Love is kind. It doesn't envy it doesn't not boast. It is not proud. It doesn't have pride. Now granted, there's a reason why that term is being used in that context. I think so too, right? Yeah. And that's maybe another conversation for another day. But at the heart of what's happening with you right now is you, you've had to make a choice. 

[00:12:47] Mark Joe
Yeah. As a and as a man, as a business owner. That's the thing is like, as a business owner, and I think that that even for your audience is like the thing that I. That I like to, I share it with other business owners because I just hope there is a, I think business owners have the huge, the biggest opportunity to use their access to people to show and reveal and spread the gospel. You know, I think I call it marketplace ministry, but like we've decided that our business is fully surrendered to the Lord, that it is his not ours. And what that looks like for us is. And it doesn't look the same for everybody. But what that looks like for us is constantly having and continuing conversations about Jesus and about the gospel. And whenever you participate in those, there's nothing that is off limits. We can't avoid certain parts of the Bible, and we certainly don't go out of our way to bring up only the offensive parts, but when they come up, we can't. We can't just pretend like they're not there because that's how we get culturally where we're at, honestly.

[00:13:56] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, and here's what happens when we lose the ability to communicate and definitively communication is an exchange. Yes. It's an exchange of ideas. Mm-hmm. So here is an idea that I lay at your feet, you lay your ideas at my feet. Let's exchange them and let's dialogue. Yeah. In a way that's meaningful. Representative of our character. Mm-hmm. And when that character remains at the highest level, we talk about being holy. Right. One of our first challenges in our community is be holy. Right. I love it. He's set apart, consecrated for a divine purpose, divine call to walking, godly, integrity, walking, godly virtue, godly principle, godly character.

[00:14:33] 
Which means that I don't compromise the conversation. That remains civil. Mm-hmm. Because how can we ever move forward unless we have an understanding that we're human beings. Yeah. We think differently. And that's why it's important for our just to sit down and have a normal conversation without having the concern about being threatened. Yeah. About being dismissed. About being, as you said, canceled. Yeah. Because. I have a different way of looking at things than you do. 

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[00:15:52] Mark Joe
Yeah. Yeah. And it's not, not only do we think differently, we believe different thi things and we have, we have different worldviews. Yeah. And yeah. The whole time through every wave of cancel culture, which there's been three big ones, but through every wave I always come back and I'm, and I maintain, Hey, look, my point is not, or my intention is not to get you to agree with me. The point though, and the reason why I refuse to muzzle myself. Is because I should be allowed to feel this way, like I should be allowed to believe this. That is the actual point. The point is not that I'm right, and the point is not that my worldview is the only worldview that should exist. That is not the point. The point is I should be allowed to have this worldview. When you post about the Pride Parade or Pride my or something, I don't come to your page. Mind you. None of these people attacking me follow me on Instagram. Right? Like this video was not posted for you. It was posted for the people who follow me. We have similar interests, similar worldviews. So when you post about your crazy stuff that I think is crazy but you think is cool, I don't come to your page in your comment section and say, how dare you post about this thing Or your business? Yeah. Or your business and say, how dare you talk about or post about or promote something. In your space that I don't agree with, 

[00:17:11] Dr. Nate Salah
It becomes malicious. It's wild at, at this, at this point, it becomes malicious when a person or a group attempts to, it sounds like from what you're saying, to destroy your life a hundred percent to destroy your life because you see, and you believe things differently. It's, it's unacceptable by the way. You have not physically attacked anyone? No. You have not put anyone in harm's way. You've expressed your opinion Yep. And your opinion based on how you interpret scripture. Right? Yeah. So now granted, there's a, there's a a lot of rabbit trails mm-hmm. To go down here. However, it's completely unacceptable. What's happened? Yeah. It's a hundred percent unacceptable. It should never exist in a pluralistic society. No. That's intention and at least by vocabulary is tolerant. Mm-hmm. Of one another's differences of belief. 

[00:18:02] Mark Joe
Yeah. I feel really pa as passionately as I feel about my faith. I also feel about just community in general. I think that it's just very ironic to me that the people who. Always fueling these attacks are the very people who are the champions of tolerance and inclusion. And it's, there's just like an incredible irony there. 'cause I'm like, wait a minute. I thought that we were supposed to be patient and understanding with one another. You know, I thought that's what you guys were talking about. And it's no, only, only tolerant as long as you agree with us, only inclusive, as long as it's the ideas that we came up with. But I say, you know, I brought up the, the friction to, you know, sort of just give a view of. The path that we've chosen and the cost that it comes with, like it comes with a real cost. Like I, in our bible studies, which I'll, I'll talk about now in a moment, but in our Bible studies, I mean, that's my soapbox. I'm always saying, guys, it's so easy to say that you believe. Like, it's so easy. It doesn't cost you anything. I just hope that we are the type of community that even when it costs us something, that we maintain that belief. What does it mean to believe? What does it look like to believe? And what I think a part of that is, is being willing to incur the cost of what you believe when they come. 

[00:19:20] Dr. Nate Salah
And it's completely scriptural, in terms of two things that come up. One, I've heard it said like this. I love the, the way this is described to believe something is to be living it. Yeah. So if you're not actually living it, do you really believe it? That's good. One. And two, we have eight Beatitudes, but the ninth, if you will, is that connecting piece. Blessed are you. By the way, blessed are those interesting. Check this out. You're gonna love this one. Okay, so the first AP attitudes are blessed. Are those blessed? Are those blessed? Are those right? Blessed are the meek, blessed are the right, yeah. The meek, the poor in spirit, the those who mourn and so on and so forth. Yeah. Then the ninth is blessed. Are you Jesus changes it. Yeah. When what? When others are valued. Mm-hmm. When you're persecuted. Yeah. On what account? On account of me. 

[00:20:07] Mark Joe
Yeah. Yeah. Blessed it. See, the thing is, and the thing, I bring this up often, not just that verse, but there's a bunch, like, you'll be hated because of my name and mm-hmm. I bring that up sometimes to remind, because I think that most Christians read those, but they're like, oh yeah, yeah. You know, like, that was cute. You know, he was talking to Paul or John, or. But it's like, no, like I just wonder how enthusiastically are you representing Jesus in your life if you never get friction? I just wonder. I'm not, I'm not here to accuse anybody, but like I don't even try that hard and there's so much resistance here.

[00:20:42] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, let's just call it what it is. I mean, the friction that Jesus caused got him pinned to a tree. Amen. Yeah. Tree. 

[00:20:48] Mark Joe
Yeah.

[00:20:48] Dr. Nate Salah
It did. 

[00:20:49] Mark Joe
No, it really did. 

[00:20:50] Dr. Nate Salah 
It did. 

[00:20:50] Mark Joe
But we read those verses, even that last beatitude and we're just like, oh yeah, we kinda like. Take it for granted. And then as soon as, as soon as there is friction. I've personally seen this like in this last week, like there are people who call themselves Christians in my life that lead bible studies, that have home groups that are like, you're in this and as soon as there's a little bit of pressure from your social circle or your coworkers or your clients or whatever, oh you, you associate with them. You know? Instead of being like, well, yeah, you know, these people distance themselves from. Us, you know, and it's just, it's wild. But the path that we've chosen, the costs that we've incurred. But the amazing thing and what keeps us going is we started this Bible study in our coffee shop. It wasn't long after I got baptized and gave my life to Jesus formally and publicly, that I said to a friend of mine at the time, I'm like, look dude, I'm not the type of dude to like.

[00:21:48]
 Half do things like, and the last thing I want is to be the kind of Christian that other people look at and say, oh, well there ain't really nothing different about them. And so there must nothing be nothing to this Christianity thing, right? If, if I do it, I wanna, I wanna do it the whole way. I want to try to, to live up to the standard that was set before us as closely as I can. And, and I just need to learn. I'm like, I've never read. The Bible from a Christian's point of view. So we started this Bible study. It was supposed to be just for me, and I just happened. I, I was wrestling at first, like, do I put it on Instagram? Do I invite people or do I just, you know, word of mouth. But I did, I put it on the coffee shop's, Instagram, Hey, we're having a Bible study and. We probably had 20 or 30 people show up, but very quickly we got to where there's a hundred and fifty, two hundred, two hundred twenty people showing up to our Bible study. You all, almost all young adults too, showing up every other Tuesday night. We've, we've done it every other Tuesday and we've never missed for almost two years now.

[00:22:50]
 And now the Bible started as just a Bible study has evolved into, we had a night of worship on Tuesday of this week, so a few nights ago. We have corporate prayer, community prayer every Saturday. Every Saturday morning we have a, a group of people that come and pray over the community, over our ministry, over the coffee shop, over our city. We have a men's ministry, a women's ministry. , we have, , pastors that from local churches that help with premarital counseling. I mean, we've seen. Probably close to 10 people who met in our Bible study that are now engaged in young adult relationships with God at the center, approaching it in a biblical way. I mean, it's just, it's amazing. Like, I mean this, this will be funny maybe to the, again, to the seasoned Christians, but I never walked into a church until I was 30 years old. And so I never knew in my life a couple that was in their twenties that was saving themselves for marriage. Never. I never knew a single one. Now I know 15, you know, that are in their twenties, in the best years of their life, you know, and that are choosing purity that are, you know, it's just amazing for me to see what the Lord is doing. 

[00:24:03] Dr. Nate Salah
Amen. I love that. And you've tapped into something that is so lacking in our community, in our world, is the power of presence of protection. Mm-hmm. And that protection is this, you know what? I have been consecrated for a higher purpose and I am going to rise out of the myers of mud and mediocrity to something so much better, so much greater. And it's not gonna be in and of myself. It's gonna be through the fellowship of the faith that God has instituted. I love that you've brought. Others together, not for your own mm-hmm. Glory. But to say God's got a better way. 

[00:24:49] Mark Joe
He does. He really does, man. I mean, it's, it's incredible. I mean, we have a, a, a full ministry now, 5 0 1 C3, and it's so special what's happening and I just, I, I, I feel unworthy and undeserving to be, you know, the steward of it for now. I'm just doing my best. Like I tell pastors in local, in town, like, Hey dude, I have no idea what I'm doing. If you got any advice for me, let me know. Like I'm, I'm fully transparent about that. I'm just doing my best to keep showing up. But I've just seen lives transform. We had five women in our women's, we have a women's group every Thursday night. We had five women get baptized last week on the roof of the coffee shop, you know, in a horse trough. I mean, they're just. So excited about their faith and about Jesus, and it's, I think, the thing that is distinctly different and the thing that I just, man, I feel so. Grateful for is that it's not like this lukewarm cultural Christianity that you see everywhere, like col, Christianity's kind of on the rise.

[00:25:45] 
You know, it's kind of getting cool to be a Christian and, put the scripture in your Instagram bio and wear the cross around your neck. But like, I just feel so strongly like I, and I tell them this. Like, man, I just don't ever want to be a Christian in name only type of community. Like, I just don't ever want to take his grace for granted. I want us, if you're gonna come here, you know, like, are we repenting, you know, regularly? Like, are, are we, you know, be leaving? Are we living it out? And I'm just so happy and grateful to see these young people actually. Taking that like you're challenged, you're be holy challenged. Like we, that's the energy is like, you know, first step Yeah. Is this is what I tell 'em. You don't have to know everything. I didn't know everything, but I made a commitment to myself that as I learn, I'm gonna do my best to apply it. That's it. I'm asking, that's all the Lord is asking. That's all. That's all anybody can ask of you, but just don't read it. Then forget about it. Don't read it and pretend like you didn't just read it. Right. 

[00:26:40] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. And when you talk about that, I try to look at Jesus' Walk with his disciples and those he was teaching. They didn't know. They knew he was a dude that had some skills. Mm-hmm. Let's just say that, right? Mm-hmm. But when he first came on the scene, yeah, he was healing and he was speaking, but they didn't know. They didn't know the full force of what he came to bring. Yeah. What they did know is that he had something mm-hmm. That they needed. Mm-hmm. And it's like, hey, God is saying, follow Jesus. You don't need all the answers. Yeah. Just go where the road takes you. 

[00:27:16] Mark Joe
Yeah. Ah, that's so good. That's exactly what God is saying, man. And yeah, I could talk forever about what's happening through our ministry just because it's so good. I mean, we had, I, I'll tell you one, one quick thing is in the middle of the tension too. So much negative attention and, . I mean, I'm talking, dude, we've had to get full orders of protection against people. People who have, who have cornered me behind our coffee shop with a gun. It's unsafe. 

[00:27:39] Dr. Nate Salah
It's, it's complete. Here's the, and here's the other thing about that. I'm gonna say this. There's a lot of things in life that you don't have control over, and that you just have to leave 'em to God. There's two things that I believe that you have complete rights to protect. One is your safety. Mm-hmm. Two is your peace from anyone. Everyone. That means whether it's someone in the community. Yeah. Whether it's someone in your business, whether it's someone in your family. Yeah. Whether it's yourself. You have the right. Protect your safety and your peace. Yep. And no one should have the right. To subdue or to remove that? 

[00:28:15] Mark Joe
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. One of my fa pastors that I, that I like to watch on, on the internet, he says, you owe them love, but you don't owe them access. Mm. And I like that. But so just recently we had a police officer, St. Louis PD come in and he's like, kind of lingering. And so my brother gets talking to him, sparks up a conversation, and, , he came to the shop because he, he was kind of distraught. He, he'd accompanied CPS. Child Protective Services to this woman's house. Somebody had called them and they went and they took this kid, this woman's kids away from her. Yeah, and he watched it. He was there for supervision and safety, but he watched it and he said she didn't actually do it. There was no abuse. The only reason why they took her children was because her house was so dirty. It was like he said, it's the worst thing I've ever seen as a police officer in the city. And he said the house was just unfit for children to live there, and he was just kind of wrestling with that. And so he came to the coffee shop.

[00:29:20]
 To ask if we might be able to help him get some volunteers to go over there and clean this woman's house out so that she might get her kids back. And then the week before I had a ministry reach out. Hey, we were supposed to have 40 volunteers to build these beds, these bunk beds for foster kids that don't have beds in their foster homes. And, we weren't able to fill the volunteers, would you guys mind? But like I'm starting to see that the community that is outside of our community, when there is a need, they're coming to the coffee shop and saying, Hey, I don't know why I came here, but would you guys be interested in helping with this? And with the punk bed thing, we filled up every volunteer spot they had plus more. The police officer thing, we're doing that this weekend. I mean, it's just cool because, you know, I started by highlighting, sort of painting a picture of the resistance, the hostility, and the cost. But what we set out to do is.

[00:30:18]
 The Lord is working. You know, it's not just in these young people and what he's doing through them, but like the community sees and they might not describe it that way. They might not say, oh well the Lord's there, you know, and so I'll go there. But they're literally these people from outside of the community when there is a need, they're coming. To our coffee shop saying, man, I don't know, but you guys seem like the right people to, to help me through this. 

[00:30:40] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. And so there it is. There is the fruit. Oh, it's fruit. There is the fruit. And when we start to feel like, man, I don't know if it's worth, it just goes back to what Jesus says. He says, if anyone were to come after me, let him first deny himself. Take up his cross. Oh yeah. Follow me for he who wishes to save his life. We'll lose it. Mm-hmm. But he who loses his life, for my sake, will gain it for what? Does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet forfeit his soul. Yeah. That my friend. We lay it out and we just are obedient. Yeah. Yeah. To pursue. I wanna commend you in that I haven't seen your post. If I read it, I would probably say, well, maybe I would've said a couple things a little differently. That's Nate Salah. Mm. Mark Joe's different. And that's how God laid it on your heart. Yeah. And it is what it is today. And you continue to honor God in everything you say and do.

[00:31:41]
 Mm-hmm. And you continue to walk and protect your family, protect your business, protect your livelihood. Most importantly, protect the integrity that God has placed upon you too. Be holy. Yeah. And we are peacemakers. Mm-hmm. So, although Paul does say it like this as much. Is in your hands as much as it, as much as you have power to create peace, then you do. If you can't control people. Yeah. I can't control people. Right? Yeah. All we can do is say, Hey look, you know what? My goal is not to cause division. My goal is to speak truth. Mm-hmm. In love. Yeah. And if I've spoken truth and it wasn't in love, then I repent of that. Yeah. And at the same time, can we just dialogue?

[00:32:28] Mark Joe
I know we should be able to talk about it. And that is a constant, Russell is like, , well, there's a few thoughts I have. One is there's so many scriptures that, , especially in the new te throughout the New Testament, throughout, you know, the epistles and, and even the gospel, but there's so many. That somebody could say that they seem to conflict, right? Paul saying, for I'm unashamed of the gospel, right? Or Jude, you know, contend for the faith, but then also Paul, for I've become all things to all people, you know, and I, I was thinking about this last night in my own quiet time, thinking about how if there was a scale of spiritual maturity and wisdom, none of, first of all, none of them conflict. But in that. They're all true. And they, and they, right. So, but if there were a scale, it's like I might be at the beginning of this spiritual maturity and wisdom, and that may be the first few that I've fully embraced is that, you know, they will hate you because of my name and be bold, be courageous, , stand firm in the faith, or for I am unashamed of the gospel.

[00:33:34]
 These ones I have no problem with at this point, but I'm not the. Maybe I haven't, my wisdom and my maturity, I think that those things continue to be true. And you just learn how to communicate better. You just learn how to extend more grace through your words, not just through your, your hands and feet, right? And then you become all things to all people and you still, but the reality is, even in Paul's sort of most mature form. They were still trying to kill him. You know what I mean? And they did, like, they were, they were, they were still upset. They were still trying to kill him. And so you're never gonna be able to commit because I, I genuinely wrestle with that. I genuinely wrestle with like. Man, you know, should I say this? I don't want anybody to get upset, but I really believe that the Bible is true. Like I really believe that the truth sets you free. I really, I try to maintain an eternal perspective, even though the Bible says no one is without excuse, but I don't want to get to the end and know that I had a chance to reveal the truth to you. And you say, I didn't know. 

[00:34:34] Dr. Nate Salah
You know, and you're in good company because even Jesus, when he said things that were said, these were hard sayings. What was the next thing? Many departed. Mm-hmm. From him even. Man, Jesus, John six. That's good. That's good. So you're in good company, brother. Amen. You're in good company.

[00:34:50] Mark Joe
But I, but I, you know, but I, I say that to say, you know, I just, there is a little bit of like, man, I, you know what you said, if I said anything and it wasn't in love, I'd just repent for that, you know? And I come to the Lord regularly, like man. I know my, my heart is love, but it doesn't, you know, it might not always sound like that. Doesn't always manifest it. 

[00:35:07] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. In that way. And that's where the repentance and the examination. I love how Paul puts it. Before you take Lord's supper, a communion, examine yourself and I think that examination should be happening daily. Mm-hmm Lord. And examine my heart. Allow, may I empty my cup of myself to be filled with you? Yeah. So that heart becomes pure. Mm-hmm. And you know, when Jesus says, be perfect at the end of the fifth chapter of Matthew, Matthew 5 48. He's not saying be flawless. No, he's saying be fulfilled. Mm-hmm. He's saying be mature. He's saying be whole and complete. And how you go about doing that is, as you said earlier, it's not just speaking it out. It's walking the steps. Yeah. It's walking it, it's walking the. 

[00:35:49] Mark Joe
Isn't there a scripture that None, but Right. You know, we're not righteous, but we're made righteous. That's right. Yeah. We're clothed in, in Christ's righteousness as 

[00:35:57] Dr. Nate Salah
If his righteousness is draped over us. 

[00:35:59] Mark Joe
Yes. And in that. We are righteous and we can be perfect. That's right. And we can be holy. Right. But as soon as we forget we fall, 

[00:36:07] Dr. Nate Salah
Bro, bro. All this so good. I mean, I can't believe, you know, our time is already gone. We'd have to do it again. Yeah, yeah. Just keep us down going, I, I'm down. 

[00:36:15] Mark Joe
I, I love talking about Jesus. Yeah. I love talking about ministry. And, , you guys are doing some amazing, amazing things. I heard from somebody actually who brought you, you up to me, A woman who works at Faith Church, do you know? And she was like, yeah, my friend's Nate. And you know, they said you were on the podcast. So, yeah, that was cool. It was my first time meeting her, and I've heard a lot of great things about her. 

[00:36:34] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, we're just gonna keep, you know, iron sharpening iron and, and loving the world together in this mission, if you will. Right. To love God and to love people. Yeah. Thanks for being here, bro. Amen. Thank you brother. Thank you so much for supporting our program. We couldn't do it without you. I want to just take a moment to honor you in prayer. We don't wanna build anything without you. God, we not a business, not a family, not a future. So we invite you into every room, we walk into this week, boardrooms, living rooms, prayer rooms. Let your spirit lead us. Let your voice guide us and let your power move through us to bless everyone we encountered. We are yours and your holy name. Amen.

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Dr. Nate Salah

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