A Call To Leadership

EP311: Blessed are the Persecuted for Righteousness with Joe Thompson and Travis Revelle

• Dr. Nate Salah

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What if resistance is proof that you’re living out your faith correctly? In the final Beatitude, Jesus reframes persecution as a pathway to joy, authority, and spiritual maturity. This episode explores why obedience invites opposition, how subtle attacks test conviction, and what faithful leaders must be prepared for. Press play to discover why persecution isn’t failure, it’s formation.
 

Key Takeaways To Listen For

  • How persecution can actually signal obedience rather than failure
  • The subtle ways spiritual resistance shows up through doubt, exclusion, and dismissal
  • Why joy grounded in Christ remains steady even when circumstances change
  • What faithfulness reveals in others when it challenges comfort or compromise
  • How enduring opposition shapes resilient, long-term Christian leadership

Resources Mentioned In This Episode

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[00:00:00] Dr. Nate Salah
This Beatitude is the last in the eight, because the first seven are preparation. The first seven gear you up, get you into the right space, and they prepare you because you will be persecuted for righteousness sake at low fellas. 

[00:00:20] Travis Revelle
Hello. Hello. 

[00:00:21] Dr. Nate Salah
Welcome. We are on the last installment of this eight part series on the beatitude. It's been fantastic. I've really enjoyed going through the. Entire journey with you. And before we get into the eighth one, just a quick like temperature check. Have these had an impact on you As much as they've had on me? 

[00:00:44] Joe Thompson
I would say having SA much deeper understanding of them. They've been more impactful to me now than. Yeah, I am 53. I've been hearing 'em for years and years and years. Right. And, like this deep dive we've taken and this application to real world has been immensely, thought provoking for me. Kind of an emotional ride for me too, because some of these, you know, they really hit home with you, right? 

[00:01:15] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. So, absolutely. How about you, Trav? 

[00:01:18] Travis Revelle
Yeah, no, I would, I mean. Read the Beatitudes. 

[00:01:22] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. 

[00:01:23] Travis Revelle
But I've never studied the Beatitudes and really understanding, what Jesus was saying. I mean, it is, it has changed my perception of, of Jesus. Right. And, and also of what we as Christians should be doing. Right. Because it's very different than what you think you should be doing. It's much more active. 

[00:01:49] Dr. Nate Salah
It is more active. 

[00:01:51] Joe Thompson
You know, his, his, his, his launch into his ministry was not subtle. 

[00:01:55] Dr. Nate Salah
No. Yeah. 

[00:01:56] Joe Thompson
Oh. I mean, he came out swinging, by the way, it's been so long when we started this.

[00:01:58] Dr. Nate Salah
It's worth noting again. Thanks for bringing it up. This was his initial, Hey, it's crazy. This is my manifesto. Great. Like this is like, this is how he gets known, which is great. I mean, it's pretty smart too. 

[00:02:14] Travis Revelle
Yeah. I mean, you know, he has some insight. 

[00:02:16] Dr. Nate Salah
However, at the same time, like taking it in that it is like people will be, would've been gasping. Like, oh, hey, did you hear about this, this Jesus guy who's like new on the scene in terms of this preaching and, and all this other stuff, and you gotta come here and like, all right, cool. And then he is like, busting all this stuff and you're like, woo. It's a little heavy on day one, isn't it, man? Right. 

[00:02:40] Travis Revelle
I mean, and into like, like perspective, right? Like. This is a 30-year-old, in my mind, a 30-year-old kid. Right. This is a 30-year-old dude who's a carpenter who just comes out and starts saying this stuff.

[00:02:54] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. Like from Nazareth, by the way, which was like, Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah. We don't even wanna like degrade any town in the United States.

[00:03:00] Travis Revelle
I'm Gran City, so I feel, you know. 

[00:03:04] Joe Thompson
You know the Nazareth of Illinois? 

[00:03:05] Travis Revelle
The Nazareth. The Nazareth of Illinois. Right. 

[00:03:06] Dr. Nate Salah
Let's just say it's not the most cosmopolitan area.

[00:03:09] Travis Revelle
Right, 

[00:03:10] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. Yeah. 

[00:03:10] Travis Revelle
Like just, you know. It's, it's, it's, it's mind-blowing, you know? 

[00:03:17] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, the eighth one is the lock it in. Are we gonna do this? are you in, in, because the first seven certainly are, and there's, there's aspects of them that are, as you said, challenging, emotional, et cetera, et cetera. And, there, there, there some things you can almost like take it or leave it. Even when we were doing the last one on the peacemaking versus peacekeeping, like there's times in life where you can just say, you know what, I think I'm just gonna peace keep right now. Mm-hmm. Because I'm just not feeling the peacemaking in my life and I know it's the wrong thing to do, but I can, I can like chill with that or just wait. But this eighth one, it's actually something that's happening to you and through you. Sometimes you don't have a choice. In fact, overwhelmingly you don't have a choice with this eighth attitude. Blessed are those who are persecuted, righteousness sake. The Greek. Yeah. Let's go in the Greek for persecuted means to pursue, to chase, to hunt. Down. It's not accidental opposition. It is an all out attack.

But vicarious blessed, of course, we gotta go back to that original word, right? A life joy that's not dependent on external circumstances, right? That's that's free from Earthly Cures. Jesus is saying, and he's saying this to these people that day, if you are persecuted, if you're hunted down, if you're attacked, if you're chaste for righteousness sake, that's when you can truly enter this space And, and this, this culmination of the space of what real joy looks like. For real, right? I mean for real. Like, okay, you can get into like pious holy mode and be like, oh yes, of course I embrace it, but like, let's talk about real life, real grit, real issues. This is not something that you would ever associate with joy. True. True. That is true. Like you don't wake up in the morning like, man, I'm gonna be so joyful if I just am hunted down.

[00:06:00] Travis Revelle
Right. 

[00:06:01] Dr. Nate Salah
It's gonna be an awesome day. 

[00:06:03] Travis Revelle
Wonder this after meets of day, but then look at how most of the apostles died. 

[00:06:08] Dr. Nate Salah
Right, right. 

[00:06:08] Travis Revelle
Hunted down, chased they, they heard it and took it pursued.

[00:06:12] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. 

[00:06:13] Travis Revelle
But I also think that this is, this is more than physical. It's also spiritual. 

[00:06:16] Dr. Nate Salah
That's right. 

[00:06:17] Travis Revelle
Right. And I think anybody who. Any of our listeners, right, who have, you know, made a, made a, made a commitment to God, and, and they're, they're living life, they all know what comes with that, right? The, the attacks that come from that, from the enemy, right? And, and the, the challenges that come from that, the mental things that come from that, right? Like all of the things that, you know, the enemy tries to attack us with. and so there's, so, there's, there's hope in that, right? Mm-hmm. That even though, you know, right, like. 

[00:06:50] Dr. Nate Salah
It's about to go down. 

[00:06:50] Travis Revelle
It's about to go down, right? Like I would say similar to other things we've talked about, the short-term pain is worth the long-term goal, right? The long-term the the, the what you get long-term, right? It's the ROI is huge. 

[00:07:05] Dr. Nate Salah
Yes, it stings at first. There's just even the thought and then ongoing. 

[00:07:10] Joe Thompson
I think there's a good reason why. The peacemakers come right before, yeah, this one. 

[00:07:17] Dr. Nate Salah
Because you really. 

[00:07:18] Joe Thompson
You really have to remind yourself. You gotta find it, be a peacemaker here. No. I think we touched upon sometimes violence as did we say that? No, we thought it, maybe we did. We thought it, yeah. I mean, you, you really have to. First of all, sometimes it's hard to spot like an outright attack, you know, like a brutal attack on your character. It's easy, right? But you know, some people have like a manipulative nature and when they approach you in a way where they're, you know, questioning your own, path with Christ or whatever, it comes subtly. You almost have to stop and say, oh, oh my God. I think I'm under attack here. Right. And 

[00:08:15] Travis Revelle
It's usually because I've, I've had it happen. Yeah. And it's usually not right then. Right? Like, you're under attack for a long time and all of a sudden, like the light bulb clicks and you're like, it depends. 

[00:08:22] Joe Thompson
Yeah. It depends on how it's done.

[00:08:24] Travis Revelle
Yeah. 

[00:08:25] Joe Thompson
So like, I'd rather you just yell at me, call me names, because right then I'm like, Ugh, I see what you're doing. Satan. 

[00:08:33] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. 

[00:08:33] Joe Thompson
But, when it's subtle like that, it's, it's a little more, you know, when it's a picking. At your Christianity, you know, when it's a picking at your beliefs, like, and it can come from anywhere. I mean, even family sometimes can be like, you know, you really do you really believe like that? Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. yeah. You, you really have to kind of settle into the fact that, okay, this is a form of persecution, right? And what's my medal going to be to stand up? To move on with this?

[00:09:11] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, well, people are, people are rarely, they can be threatened by what you say. I tend to think people are more threatened by what your obedience exposes. 

[00:09:22] Travis Revelle
What it exposes in them, how it makes them feel about themselves. 

[00:09:25] Joe Thompson
Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:09:28] Travis Revelle
A thousand percent. 

[00:09:28] Joe Thompson
Because if it's not real, you don't have to follow it. Right. If I'm a silly guy because like, I followed this Jesus guy. Mm-hmm. Right. then if I'm just silly about doing it, then like, why should I, why should I have to do it? You know? Joe's being his weird self. 

[00:09:51] Joe Thompson
Right? 

[00:09:51] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. 

[00:09:52] Joe Thompson
Yeah. 

[00:09:52] Travis Revelle
But I think you're right. 

[00:09:53] Joe Thompson
It, it exposes, their, their nature to what's easy and the lack of discipline that it takes. To be a Christian. The, the discipline it takes to surrender, I think is is strength, is strength, and it's much easier to avoid. Look, you want a, a really easy life. Don't surrender to Christianity. 

[00:10:18] Travis Revelle
Right? 

[00:10:19] Joe Thompson
Right. Just go about your business, be about the world. Do whatever you want. Be a decent person if you can. Yeah. once you take all this on, like this puts you at a. You're set, right? It's put you at a whole different level. Now there's an expectation of what your relationship with God should be, and you have to stay true to it. And people are threatened by that, because they don't wanna do it. 

[00:10:46] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, and and what you're talking about sometimes it's not like, like you said, not, it's not always blatant. It's not always violent. It could be dismissal. 

[00:10:55] Joe Thompson
Yeah. 

[00:10:55] Dr. Nate Salah
It, it could be exclusion, it could be mockery, it could be, quiet, you know, a, a quiet, almost subversiveness, right? it could be missed, lost opportunities. I mean, all of that. 

[00:11:10] Travis Revelle
Well, I think that's, I think that's worse, right? I think, I think, I think if it was just a physical onslaught, right? Like you're getting beat up. All right, cool. 

[00:11:20] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah, it, it, you take, it's, it's over in, you know, two minutes.

[00:11:20] Travis Revelle
You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it hurts and my ego might be hurt, but it's, it's worse when it's slow long from a friend, from a friend, from a family. From a family member, right. Brutal. Like, it's brutal because you're fighting it, you know what I mean? Like, you wanna fight it, and you want, you, you don't want to just, if it's some stranger who comes up and is like, oh, you're a Christian. You know, go jump off a bridge. Like, okay, whatever. Right. But if it's somebody that you love and you care about and they're, you know, it's, it's slow and steady. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's a painful experience. 

[00:11:59] Joe Thompson
And it's sad because like, you know, like, you know the hardships of Christianity, but you also know the peace and the love mm-hmm. And the joy in sharing and fellowship. And you realize this person doesn't, doesn't have that. They're living without that part of it. Because, you know, they, they see the, the work like, like maybe it's hard to, to maintain this, but they don't see all the joy necessarily because it is more internally driven joy than. Skipping down the street, I'm a Christian, you know? Right. It's all, you can't be. It's great visual. It's all, it's, it's our blessings. Like they're, they're internal. Our joy is internal. That's right. And, I think people are threatened by people who can be joyful and like not have like the world at their feet. 

[00:12:59] Joe Thompson
Right. Oh yeah. Not have everything or be in the best situation or struggle with the disease and still be joyful. It's mind blowing for people.

[00:13:08] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. I mean, it's the old saying, misery loves company. 

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[00:14:59] Travis Revelle
I always think of Job. 

[00:15:01] Dr. Nate Salah
Oh, yeah. 

[00:15:02] Travis Revelle
You know, and just, just the fact that like. All the things, right? Like all the things that that happened. And being a Christian is not for the week of art. It's not. 

[00:15:19] Dr. Nate Salah
No, it's not. 

[00:15:19] Travis Revelle
And when you really dive into the beatitudes, and you, and you, and you understand. The, you know, the eight steps to being a good Christian, right? Like they're, that is, you are, you are not a person of the world. If you follow those steps, you're not, you're not going to be liked.

[00:15:45] Dr. Nate Salah
No. In fact, Joe, if some of some might be watching on, on, on YouTube, he is got his h shirt on. It's not be ho it's be holy. You wear that shirt. This is what we're talking about. It's instant persecution, by the way. It may not even be again, overt. Right. It could just be the look you get. 

[00:16:08] Joe Thompson
My favorite one is, what's that like? Like it's a brand or something, right? 

[00:16:13] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. It'd be holy brand. 

[00:16:14] Joe Thompson
It's, you know, it's, it's a pretty self-explanatory. Yeah. It's just read it. Yeah. Just, just read it. Take it in. 

[00:16:22] Dr. Nate Salah
But when you wear that shirt, I've worn that shirt out. Just be ready. You know what I mean? It's just like it's, you know, okay, I'm, I'm suiting up and I'm gonna catch some heat. I mean, it doesn't even have to be the shirt, but that's the whole concept. Yeah. Right. It's the concept. It's gonna cost you persecution that's gonna hurt, it's gonna cost you popularity and make you more popular in some ways, because you know you're in the right circles. Yeah. In the right circles, or you get canceled. So you know, whatever that might look like, but you gain the authority. That God has placed upon you. That's a much different place. I wanna be in that place. 

[00:17:00] Joe Thompson
I do too. 

[00:17:00] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. 

[00:17:03] Joe Thompson
This, this, this particular one, it just riles me up a bit. So I wanna make, wanna kind of make a confession years ago when people used to say like, oh, you know, that's Satan working in that person. Yeah. Coming at you. I used to think it was silly, like I used to you like, Satan, you know, uh. Because I just don't think of like the possession aspect of it, you know, but it's, it's not necessarily a possession aspect. Sometimes it's just a nudge. You know, they find someone who's maybe has a weakness of, of, of some kind with, with God and, you know, maybe just gives them a nudge. But as I started to look at it more like, hey, this is a, a, this is an other worldly attack. Right. Um. I see it now, like just some obstacles of the, just of the things we've been trying to accomplish in this past year, like the, the nonstop obstacles that have been thrown at Great Summit, us individually, like everything is trying to triple up right to, to the point where you gotta like, okay, let's refocus on Christianity. You know, let's. It's seeable for me now that yeah, that is, that is kind of an attack by, Satan. The, the divider. Devow like a lion, right? Yeah. It, it, it, it says all that because it, it happens and, and I've noticed it more and more probably over the last few years as we. Talked about this more. 

[00:18:51] Travis Revelle
Oh, well, what's the saying? The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he wasn't real. 

[00:18:55] Joe Thompson
Yeah. 

[00:18:56] Travis Revelle
I mean, if you're a master manipulator, well, let's just be real. Right? Like the devil is gonna be the best manipulator that's ever existed, right? Like of course you want people to not to think like you did, right? Yeah. To be like. That's, that's silly. That's silly. That's not real. You know what I mean? And also in the Bible it says, don't rely on your own thoughts. 

[00:19:17] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. 

[00:19:17] Travis Revelle
You know what I mean? Like, because we're impressionable, we're humans, we're flawed, right? Like we're impressionable. 

[00:19:25] Joe Thompson
So, he knows our nature. 

[00:19:26] Travis Revelle
He knows, take every thought captive.

[00:19:27] Dr. Nate Salah
I mean, there's a reason for that. 

[00:19:29] Travis Revelle
There's a reason for all of this. Right? And there's a reason why I think it's 365 times in the Bible. It says, do not worry. You know what I mean? Like, because anxiety is such. A killer for people and a driver for good and bad, right? Like anxiety makes you do crazy things. So, you know, I also look at it like this, right? Like, if you're not being persecuted, I think that's more dangerous because if you're not being persecuted, you're not, if the devil isn't paying attention to you and trying to stop you from doing what you're doing, you're not doing something right. 

[00:20:03] Joe Thompson
Right.

[00:20:06] Travis Revelle
He doesn't need to waste his time. You know what I mean? Like if, if you're, if you're living a peaceful life and you're just crushing it in every aspect of your life and everything is fantastic and just you just keep getting wins and wins and wins and wins, like you think, you think, you think you've won. Right? But in reality, like. What are you doing? 

[00:20:24] Dr. Nate Salah
You're just out of the game. 

[00:20:26] Travis Revelle
You're, you're not in the game. You know what I mean? Like, nobody's even paying attention on the, to you, you know what I mean? Like, just like, he's fine. Like I'm not worried about him. You know? It's the people that are struggling. Right, right, right, right. I know where he is going. I don't, I'm, I'm, I'm good. You know? and there was some, there was some real I saw, and it was, it was a, it was a TV show and everything. It was this old lady. This guy who is super rich and successful, and he was kind of mocking her for her belief and, and God and everything. And, and she, you know, had this little dialogue and basically she summed it up and she was like, you know, have you ever thought that, you know, the devil makes your life so comfortable that you don't need to move until it's too late still. It's too late to move. Because you're so comfortable. Why would you, why would you, you don't need to do anything, right?

[00:21:08]
 You're winning. You've got all this money, you've got all this prestige, you've got all the things that, that everybody associates and, and, and, and puts to being successful. But in after this, right, this past year, it's, I, I know that there are, there are a lot of points in my life where I'm being persecuted, right? And in some instance it's frustrating. But in another instance, when you really step back and you think about it and you're saying. I must be doing something right for him to worry about me and start to persecute me. Yes, I'm doing something that he doesn't like and he's trying to get me back to be the old version of me and show me the path to go back to the old version and and how comfortable and how easy, and how happy you think you are. But it doesn't compare to that joy that you have of knowing that you're a son of God, right. And so if you're being persecuted, you're doing something right. 

[00:22:07] Dr. Nate Salah
You're that's awesome. It's, it's that threat like, oh, you are a threat. You are. That's a good place to be. It doesn't always feel good, doesn't feel good but, but even like, okay, look at, I, I, one of my buddies was talking and we were, I was, I asked him for some prayer because again, we've been lots of persecution this year, right? All of us. And, and that's a good thing. At the same time, it's like, it, it is. It's, it's a weight. And so I, I asked him for prayer and he said, you know, I heard my pastor say it like this, an NBA team. Like you get a, you know, you get somebody on, on the team who's just like, not good. Nobody's defending him. You get a Kobe up there. You know? 

[00:22:48] Joe Thompson
I was just thinking that. 

[00:22:49] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. It's like, okay, well, guess what? That's who you are. If you're being persecuted, you know, you're a Jordan, you're a Kobe. So expect, expect the onslaught. Expect to win because you've got, God, you've, I mean, you've got God, like, I don't have to say anything else.

[00:23:08] Travis Revelle
That's the thing, and that's the thing where pe people, I, I don't, I don't, I think that's where people get caught, right? Like they're being persecuted and you know, they may even say like, why is this happening to me? God, instead of thinking about it in a athletic sense or a, or a, a, a, a physical sense, right? Like. If you're being double teamed or you're being triple teamed, like there's some pride in that. You know what I mean? Like there's some pride to say like, look what God's done in and threw me. 

[00:23:37] Travis Revelle
Right? Yeah. And at the end of the day. We know the end of the story, 

[00:23:41] Dr. Nate Salah
Right? 

[00:23:41] Travis Revelle
So what, what are we really worried about?

[00:23:44] Dr. Nate Salah
Championships already want. 

[00:23:45] Travis Revelle
Already want the champion, the, the banner's already hung. 

[00:23:47] Dr. Nate Salah
Nobody's guarding you. It's like, oof. 

[00:23:50] Travis Revelle
Right. 

[00:23:50] Dr. Nate Salah
Hey, right here. I, somebody asked me the ball. 

[00:23:53] Travis Revelle
Right? If nobody's guarding you and you're not being persecuted, you need to have a conversation with God. 

[00:23:59] Dr. Nate Salah
Amen. 

[00:24:00] Travis Revelle
You know what I mean? Like you need to have a conversation and change something. 

[00:24:03] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. It's still not easy, right? It's still not easy. But here's the thing about that. Kobe and Jordan and all of those, what did they do? They prepared a lot. A lot, a lot. 

[00:24:19] Travis Revelle
That's all they did. All they did was prepare. That's what we need to do. Yeah.

[00:24:25] Dr. Nate Salah
I mean, put the full armor of gun on. This is preparation. That's why this be this. That's why this beatitude is the last. Because the first seven are preparation, right? The first seven gear you up, the first seven gets you into the right space and they prepare you because you will be persecuted for righteousness sake. Blessed are you. It's coming. Yeah. It's in, it's inevitable. Yeah. So you, you, you do this. You do this, you, you, you, you listen, you learn. You, you, you fellowship, you ask for prayer. You don't do it alone. By the way, I don't know anybody who's ever won an NBA championship, a football championship. I mean, you know, unless you're, I dunno, there are some solo sports. I'm not gonna go there. Right, 

[00:25:16] Travis Revelle
Right. I'm. 

[00:25:17] Dr. Nate Salah
But, but, but you still have a team. 

[00:25:18] Travis Revelle
Yeah. You still have coaches. You still have coaches, trainers. Yeah. You still Yeah, you the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:25:23] Dr. Nate Salah
Somebody's gonna be like, yeah, they're gonna message us and be like, well, you know, did you talk the sport has only like one for like, you didn't know about championships, chess or whatever. I don't know what, I don't know what I'm talking like that. 

[00:25:33] Joe Thompson
Is that a sport, right?

[00:25:34] Travis Revelle
Well, I say no, and I like to play chess, but it is not a sport. 

[00:25:40] Joe Thompson
If you can do it with your 70, is it a sport?

[00:25:43] Travis Revelle
Right. Can you spring a hamstring? It's a team sport. 

[00:25:53] Joe Thompson
It's, you know, I used like to, I used to like to argue like with people, debate with people and the whole Christian like thing when they were, when I felt I was being attacked. But you know exactly what Travis said, like, you know. I've already won going into the argument, right? I just no longer have a taste for arguing back and forth, right? Like, I'll, if you want to know my beliefs, I'll tell you, right? I don't, I'm not gonna try and convi, I'm not gonna beat you over the head with it. The train convince you that I'm right and you are wrong. a friend of mine long time ago said, uh. You know, he was a little persecuted because he was a Muslim and he became a, became a Christian, and some of his Muslim family members were questioning his route in life. And he said something that I have probably said now a thousand times. He said, look, when I die, I want to go where Jesus is. Right. 

[00:27:07] Dr. Nate Salah
Pretty simple. 

[00:27:07] Joe Thompson
That's pretty much it. That's it. Like that's where I'm gonna stake all my cards. 

[00:27:11] Dr. Nate Salah
That's it. 

[00:27:11] Joe Thompson
And if I'm wrong, for whatever reason, I'm still okay with placing all my, my face in that, because I believe in the teachings. 

[00:27:22] Dr. Nate Salah
Yep. 

[00:27:22] Joe Thompson
So, you know, the arguing now, which used to be fun and like I used to try to be clever. Like now I just kinda, you know. Just kind of take it and I'm like, you know, do, do you want me to tell you about Jesus and his teaching or like, do you want me to try and convince you that God exists because Correct. I cannot do that. Right, right, 

[00:27:42] Travis Revelle
Right. 

[00:27:43] Joe Thompson
It's called Faith for a reason, so I don't have proof of God for you. I'm sorry. 

[00:27:48] Travis Revelle
Right, right. No, and I, I. 

[00:27:51] Joe Thompson
They're proof of no, God is always because bad things happen. 

[00:27:54] Travis Revelle
Yeah. You know, it, it always, it always, this, this cracks me up. Like I can respect somebody who's agnostic. Right. Somebody who's like, I don't really know. 

[00:28:02] Joe Thompson
Yeah. No. 

[00:28:03] Travis Revelle
Right. I cannot respect somebody who is an atheist who says, I know for sure. There is not a God. We know 5% of what is ha in in the universe. Right. Like 5% of stuff. That's a major claim to say to, but to say, I know for a fact that like, I'm not, I'm not even going to engage with somebody who says that because you are not a real person. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like you, that is not a real Yeah.

[00:28:29] Dr. Nate Salah
You're like, and you think I have faith. 

[00:28:30] Travis Revelle
Right. And, and, but an agnostic person who's like, you know. I'm not saying there is, I'm not saying there isn't. I just don't know. 

[00:28:36] Joe Thompson
Like and this is what they admit to, like, I don't know enough to make that decision. 

[00:28:39] Travis Revelle
Correct. And that's normally when you really, that's a journey for me to, that's what it comes down to, right? Yeah. Like they just don't know enough to make a decision or they don't understand. They think people with faith. Have had this massive revelation in their life, right? Where like, we've seen God, we've touched God, we've, we've had full on very, you know, conversations with God where he is sitting next to us. They don't understand the concept of faith, which is fine. Like that's somebody who can learn from, but somebody who says like, I know for a fact there's not a God. Oh, and you're 45 years of life. You, you've determined that there's no such thing as a God. You know what I mean? 

[00:29:18] Joe Thompson 
Like, I just, I can't, and most of the time, you, you don't have those kind of experiences until you are faithful. That's it. Like once you are faithful. Then you've opened yourself up just like you can be a horrible person and open yourself up to evil. You can be a faithful believer in Christ teaching, and you're opening yourself up now to God. And you'll, you'll have that same, you know, experience. but you'll, you'll probably never get a grab by the back of your shirt and, you know 

[00:29:53] Dr. Nate Salah
Right, right. 

[00:29:54] Joe Thompson
Pulled into a church and be like, this is where I want you. 

[00:29:57] Dr. Nate Salah
Yeah. 

[00:29:57] Joe Thompson
Like, that is not going to happen for you. Right? No, 

[00:30:00] Dr. Nate Salah
No. 

[00:30:00] Joe Thompson
So it's, it's subtle. I think for most people, some people have like, look, I've had this calling, I knew it my whole life. I knew what I wanted to do. You know, I always wanted to be a Christian. for other people, it's like they have their faith. They, they learning things about their faith as they, they grow and then, you know, they get that real like kind of pure belief and then you start to have those experiences.

[00:30:27] Travis Revelle
Like, you know, because you've opened yourself up where you're nudged to something.

[00:30:28] Joe Thompson
Yeah. Or you hear something and you're like, no, I think I know what God's 

[00:30:32] Travis Revelle
Yeah. 

[00:30:33] Joe Thompson
Telling me to do. Yeah. When, when I tell people that, you know. I hear God talk to me in ways. I mean, I know they look at me like I'm crazy, but like, I so don't care, what anyone thinks about me and my Christian belief. Right. I'd be more offended if, like you said, I did a bad job. Working somewhere like that would offend me. 

[00:30:55] Dr. Nate Salah
Right. 

[00:30:55] Joe Thompson
But to tell me that, like I think you're nuts. 'cause you think God guides your life and helps you make decisions and nudges you in ways that I absolutely don't care. 

[00:31:04] Dr. Nate Salah
Right, right. It's okay.

[00:31:05] Joe Thompson
That's fine. 

[00:31:06] Dr. Nate Salah
Right? 

[00:31:07] Joe Thompson
That's fine. Yeah. God's not nudging you. Who is 

[00:31:13] Dr. Nate Salah
Well, and I think we know from our experience in not only the series, but also just spending so much time together over the last year and, and in our own journey, that lasting leadership. It's forged here. It's forged in these words. It's forged in these conversations. It's forged in not just an idea, but an active real application to these principles to do. What does the Bible say? Don't just be here. So the word be doers as not to deceive yourselves. It's a big statement because when it's all said and done, of all the voices we hear, whether they're friends, family, whether they're coworkers, whether it's somebody on the street who's these naysayers, these persecutor, there's only one voice that's gonna matter. There's only one voice when we go to meet God that matters. And it's the voice that says. Well done. Good and faithful servant, come and join your master. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thanks guys. This is awesome. We'll do another one. Alright. Thank you so much for supporting this program. I'd like to pray for you for just a moment that God realigns the heart away from pressure, pride, performance.

[00:32:39]
 Back to his presence. Let us grow in God's wisdom. Let us give from our overflow and let us go love radically in every place God sends us. Make us holy Lord, set us apart. Not just successful, but surrendered in Jesus' name a. Thank you so much for supporting this program. I'd like to pray for you for just a moment that God realigns the heart away from pressure, pride, performance back to his presence. Let us grow in God's wisdom. Let us give from our overflow and let us go love radically in every place God sends us. Make us holy Lord, set us apart, not just successful. But surrendered in Jesus name, Amen.

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Dr. Nate Salah

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