Ducks on the Pond
A podcast for rural women... by rural women. Hosted by Kirsten Diprose and Jackie Elliott, they seek expert advice and the stories of other rural women on issues such as succession planning, motherhood, starting a business...running for politics and much more!
Ducks on the Pond
Making friends when you’re new to town or want to expand your circle
Episode sponsor: Dimity Smith, Founder of GRO Rural
If you’ve moved to a small town or even moved back to your hometown, after a long time away… how do you make friends?
There are suggestions that Australia is in the middle of a loneliness epidemic; in fact one in three people experience it. Country towns are pretty good at welcoming people in, but making close, meaningful relationships takes time and it takes effort.
In this episode we get advice from two experts and women who have experienced being the new girl in town, first-hand. (So have the hosts, Kirsten Diprose and Jen McCutcheon!)
- Malinda Guest - psychologist at Boundless Psychology, who after a long time living elsewhere, returned to her hometown, Narrabri, NSW.
- Katja Williiams - farmer and creator of The Ultimate Farm Wife podcast and You Tube channel, who moved to Dubbo, NSW.
We talk about strategies to meet local people, how to find those who share common values and interests and how long it takes to form deep connections. And we’re all adults here… so if a seemingly likely friendship doesn’t work out, that’s ok too!
I think if I had my time again, I would do things a little bit differently. One of the first things I wish I had done is got a property map out and said to my husband right, who lives where? That ongoing commitment to social connections or social engagement often will reduce our loneliness but also will increase then the friendships and connections that we do have. Hello and welcome back to Ducks on the Pond. Brought to you by the Rural Podcasting Co and joining me today is Jen McCutcheon. Hi, jen, welcome back. Hello, thanks. It's always a pleasure to be here Now.
Speaker 1:This episode is sponsored by Grow Rural, a platform that connects rural professionals and businesses. You can head to growruralcomau and you'll find writers, marketers, agri-consultants, photographers you name it and you can get listed there too. And we'll speak to the founder Divity Smith at the end of this episode. And we'll speak to the founder Divity Smith at the end of this episode. So, jen, did you know that loneliness has been described by some as an epidemic in Australia, and that's because one in three of us experience it. So we're talking about how you make friends, especially when you're already living in an isolated location in rural and regional Australia, and especially if you've moved to that area from a city or from somewhere else, and I think it's a question that resonates really deeply for many of us. Yes, I wish we'd had this discussion six years ago, when I first moved to the farm. It would have helped me fit in probably a lot easier. But whether you're a newcomer to the bush or a lifelong local or somewhere in between, the journey to build meaningful connections can be complex and challenging. What were some of your friendship fails, jen, first up? Oh, not so much friendship fails, but I guess I just felt like I needed to be friends with everybody. When you have a barbecue, I feel like you have to invite everybody. I find it really hard to like not want to offend anyone. I guess we'll talk about this a bit later.
Speaker 1:You know your friendships that you had in the city and how some of them naturally fell away and you really figured out who were your closest friends once you moved your life six hours away. Yeah, that definitely happened to me and I think, like you married a farmer, so was this kind of assumption that I would just become great friends with all of his friends. But I didn't have the 20 years of history that he did and I have become really good friends with some of them, but others we're more like acquaintances really. But that's okay. Like you don't have to be besties with everyone, yeah. And finding like there were already some formed friendship groups that I was like, oh, I'd love to be in that friendship group, but yeah, it's just, it's made and it doesn't have room for others as well. Yeah, if you try and break into a whole bunch of people that went to school together, like that's really hard, you just you can't make up for that time. But then I've made some really special connections here too. That will be my friends for a lifetime. So it's got its pros and cons. Oh, the trenches of mother's group is where I made some of my best friends to this day. So Me too, yeah.
Speaker 1:So our next two guests will really dive into this issue with some practical advice about making friends when you move to town and also being realistic about what you're trying to achieve when it comes to friends. Kirsten, you spoke with Melinda Guest, a psychologist who has returned to her childhood hometown in northern New South Wales after many years. Yeah, that's right, she'd lived in the city and I think a lot of people will resonate with that story as well. Is the town still the same? And, jen, you spoke with Katia Williams, a mum of three, soon to be four, who has some very unique ways of making and keeping friends in the bush. Let's meet Katia.
Speaker 1:To me particularly as well, as I know a lot of my community members, when you think of moving to a place and making friends, you kind of automatically think back to making friends at school when you were younger and that sort of leads you down the track of okay, I've got to find people who are the same age as me, with the same interests as me, and we've got to agree on the same personality traits, that we appreciate the same values, the same everything else, and that can really limit yourself to really reaching out and finding your community within a place, because not always when you move to a farm or a rural location is anyone going to fit that criteria. So we need to change our mindset and change how we're going to approach making friends in those areas as we grow up, because we're not necessarily moving into forced friendships for who's in our class or who's doing what units if we're at uni together or when we're living in college, who's in our boarding house with us? So really extending and evolving that and re-evaluating what friendship is. So I think a few things that really helped re-establish that mindset is, when we break down making a community, making friends, first you've got to meet them and I think sometimes we jump ahead and we forget that You've got to meet them, you've got to create a connection and then you've got to deepen that connection and that takes time. I think a lot of us want to jump into those really good friendships where we can be ourself and we can share everything, and we've got to remember that does take time, that for a lot of people sometimes that's a bit too much and we've got to wind ourselves back to start with Friendships. To combat loneliness and geographical isolation is definitely something that when you move to a rural community is really important. We want to create those friends in that community to be able to not only combat that loneliness but also help us problem solve in our new area that we find ourselves in.
Speaker 1:I was really lucky when I moved here and a good friend of mine always jokes that I was the last one in, so I walked into a friendship group from boys and she was always like I was the first one in, so I was the one there with 10 other blokes, you know, doing my research about tractors, so I had something to talk to them about on a Friday night, because it would be me and 10 blokes. And now you've come in and there's nine women that you can automatically be friends with, and some of those friendships have been the closest friendships I've had. But then, yeah, you've also got to go out and find different friendships and there's different seasons of life. So since becoming a mum, there's friends I've met through that. You're really good at getting out and about despite having three kids, one on the way.
Speaker 1:I don't know how you do it all. Did you just throw yourself into every group when you got somewhere, or did you just pick and choose what you wanted to do? I think if I had my time again, I would do things a little bit differently. So I've been in my district now for almost 11 years and one of the first things I wish I had done is got a property map out and said to my husband who lives where, who is around us, and I think one of the reasons I didn't start with that approach for who is on the farms around us is that those who are in our district are more my parents' and grandparents' age rather than my own. So that links back into reframing who my community and my connections and friends are going to be, because I would have loved to have really sat down and made those one-on-one connections with my neighbours rather than just being my husband's wife, and I feel like I was putting myself in that pigeonhole initially. So that's probably one thing I would have done differently if I'd had my time over.
Speaker 1:While I love to talk, I do get quite anxious in social situations, and a few things that I've found really helped by that is definitely picking and choosing what event I'm going to go to, and then I also think that for me turning up early to an event is much easier than turning up late or on the start time. So if I can turn up early to an event and that only has to be a few minutes earlier, then I'm walking into a room or a space that's not filled with a lot of people and I introduce myself usually to the volunteers who are there who are putting on the event, and that's a great way to start connection. I'm new, I don't actually know anyone at this event, I've come here by myself and then I face the door and I probably feel like a little bit like a lioness sometimes, but then I'm like the next few people through the door I'm going to introduce myself to, and I find that much easier than coming into an event where people have already paired off into their groups or who they've come with. To then try and approach a group for me is quite a little bit of anxiety, and so I'd rather be there first and then, if I can introduce someone else or they might know each other through the district but they may not have met as well face to face, so I can do those introductions. I find that eases for myself. That eases the social pressures of networking and then making friends, because I'm meeting people, I'm then connecting and then over the time after that event then I can try and deepen those connections. So that's something else that I really found that helped.
Speaker 1:And then also being on farm, particularly when I moved, we were really in the middle of drought and then we had the floods and the delayed harvest and everything else and it was really hard to get off farm. And then I added motherhood into that journey at the same time as well, and so I had a drought baby, then a harvest baby and then a mouse plague baby. I just didn't pick my timings very well with the season. So then, creating an online community through the Ultimate Farm Wife really helped with that. As you said earlier, I've created this beautiful alumni of like-minded women, who some are in my area and others are across Australia, new Zealand, america, canada where I can really reach out, and some of us have those in-depth connections purely based on our farming situations as well. We were at an event recently with Jackie Elliott Rural Women's Day and I think there was about five or six women in the room that you'd spoken to already, and then that just spreads your connections as well.
Speaker 1:Do you find it hard? I guess, sometimes when you move to a new place, you want to be friends with everyone and everyone knows who you are. How do you not get overwhelmed and pick and choose what catch-ups you have and to create those more in-depth friendships? I think for me, being on farm and having the kids means that, logistically, the farm and the kids for me comes first. So when I am picking and choosing an event, we're very lucky, where we are in the Central West, that we have access to a lot of a range of events. So usually for me to pick and choose, I want to choose people who are like-minded values and a. It's going to be a social interaction for me that has a purpose, because then I can justify getting off farm or I can justify getting multiple babysitters or whatever it is for the logistics for being awake. So usually it's got to fit into those categories, it's got to suit my values, it's going to be like-minded people and I'm going to need and I will be benefiting for something at the end.
Speaker 1:And I find if you look at a lot of events, even if you're looking at networking events long lunches, conferences there will usually be a pillar that one of them don't fall into or that's not logistically possible, and that's okay. And that has taken nearly 11 years to come to that point. It's okay. You don't have to go to everything, but when you do make it count, make sure it's aligned. Do you have any tricks, like when you are talking to people, because we'll catch up and say how are you going? Oh, yeah, really good, I'm really busy, and you'll be like, yeah, I'm really busy too, and then it's okay. Next, and it's speed dating, just telling us about how busy each of us are and whereas we do have a lot of other stuff going on in our lives. Yes, I think narrowing down a time to really connect one-on-one or in a smaller group really helps as well.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that I loved when I moved to the farm was being able to create a place of my own on the farm, and for me that was going back to my roots of gardening, putting in an orchard, homesteading. I love making jams and preserving, and that's my happy downtime that I do once the kids are in bed, and so growing additional produce means that I have lots to share, so I share with my community through just a roadside stand. But then it also means that I can say to friends at events like that okay, it is a bit like a speed dating event. We've only got a couple of hours and there's heaps of people in this room that we want to catch up with. So when you're passing by the farm, call or text me or we can set a date and a time where we're actually going to catch up and we're actually going to have that one-on-one time that we really want and a decent catch up. So I need to bring people to me sometimes.
Speaker 1:Or it's definitely one of the things I did on farm when I first moved out here, because for my husband it's really hard for him to get off farm as well. So one of the things was like we're going to start keeping a list. If you have said to someone we need to catch up and you haven't within this 12 month period, this is the date, this is the time, and they get invited to that event. So for us it's usually a really silly timing of just before Christmas, but we'll invite people out to the farm. And then for me I also put on my calendar because I find if it's not on the calendar it doesn't happen. So for me I also pick one group of friends or one couple that will come out to the farm once a month. So we are entertaining once a month on farm from a range of people and that might just be dinner and a catch up, it could be or it could be like a games night or a themed party, something like that. It just really brings people out because if it's on the calendar it's going to happen.
Speaker 1:Otherwise we just keep going with our busy lives and we don't deepen those connections, we don't sit down and really get together and really get to hear what everyone else is going up to in the district and what their issues are or what they need problem solving or support in that sort of thing as well. How do you get around? I know probably a lot of people listening to this find this hard as well. Not or getting over the fact you don't need to invite everyone, but also the fact that I find sometimes people will be like what are you up to on the weekend and you don't want to say, oh, I'm going to blah blah's child's birthday, because you don't know if they've been invited or not. But then when it's reciprocated I'm like but that's okay, you can't invite everyone, but it is that awkward tete-a-tete sometimes you have. Do you have any advice for that? I definitely think you've hit the nail on the head there with both ends of the spectrum.
Speaker 1:So I like to be proactive and I find that helps. So if I'm reaching out and saying we're going to catch up is a selection of dates, I can come out to the farm. I find that much easier to curate with that smaller group of people, whether it's a handful of couples or whether it's just one other couple. I find that much easier to do if I'm taking the proactive step to that rather than waiting for people to invite us places, because I know that everyone is just as flat out as we are. But also, when we moved to the farm, I had to realign my values and my values didn't always connect with the farm values as well, which I know that a lot of the community and a lot of us also feel. But making sure that people people is my thing. I need people connection. So, yes, I can go weeks on farm without seeing anyone else, but I also know that I need to actually sit down. So the podcast helps with that. Having small groups of people help with that. And if you're wanting me to do something this weekend, the chances is I'm not going to be able to do it because I have something else on.
Speaker 1:One thing, ned, and I find really important is putting on the calendar leave clear. Leave clear means you book nothing in so that we can really have that family time. Because when you're balancing the family and the farm and community and friendships, a lot of the time you miss out on our connection and deepening our friendship. Yeah, we forget our spouse is our friend. Yeah, that's not only husband and wife, but we started a very roommate situation for a while, yeah, so leaving clear on the calendar also means that we're creating a deeper connection together, which I think is also sometimes overlooked. I think my husband is always happy when he's what's on this weekend and I say nothing and he's ah, it's a big sigh of relief.
Speaker 1:Do you think COVID's made us lazy in friendships? I'm not sure. If I think it's made us lazy, I think it's definitely made us crave deeper connection and definitely has helped in cutting out a lot of additional engagements, so that it's okay. I think it also reminded us that it's okay to stay at home and it's okay to slow down and it's okay to not overcommit, which I think was also a good reminder. But it has definitely limited social interaction choices as well, which I think sometimes reduces the anxiety of needing to go and do something and be somewhere and be seen and really focus back on those personal connections of doing less but making them count.
Speaker 1:So if you were someone listening to this podcast, who's sitting at home and is feeling a bit lonely because we know that loneliness is affecting a very large part of the population at the moment what would you suggest? A couple of top tips in terms of getting out and about, and I know it also is balanced with some people who find it really hard to get out and about as well. So if they want to take some baby steps to making some new friends and finding some meaningful connections, what are some of your tips? If you're new to an area and getting out to start with is really hard, or introducing yourself to people is really hard, I always find and advise that if you're going somewhere for the farm or somewhere, regularly introduce yourself to those guys first. So whether that's your fuel station attendee, whether that's someone in the grocery store who's always there when you're in the shop, start with those little introductions as well. They're the people who are going to know what's going on in the community, and next time you're in they might say, oh, this is happening this weekend, so that helps.
Speaker 1:One thing that I make a mindful effort for doing now is I'm really lucky with a certain stretch of our road that I know that I have 20 minutes of self-service on my way into town, not the first part of the drive, but the second part of the drive. I had 20 minutes and so, even if I have the kids in the car, I will call someone who won't mind hearing the kids in the car or who might like to talk to the kids on loudspeaker, and so I'll mindfully make those calls and those connections. Or if I'm by myself and I'm doing driving, those connections, or if I'm by myself and I'm doing driving, instead of doing like a work call or a farm call, I will again reach out to someone, because creating those pockets of time, or finding those pockets of time to reach out to someone, even if it's not face-to-face, makes a big difference for loneliness, it makes a big difference for your mental health and it's reconnecting either with people from your past or your future or your current situation where you're really going to get a really nice feeling and rush back from it. So those small pockets of time help as well. So even if you're not into organising events and having people out to the farm, that really makes a big difference. And that whole you do it for yourself.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I've got into a habit of being like nobody's been to visit me, nobody's called, and you get a bit down in the dumps. But I really like what you say about. You make the effort, you invite people over, you pick up the phone and call, and even just you put a value on time and connection. I know the cost of living crisis and the other week I was thinking, oh, I shouldn't be buying a coffee every day. But my baristas, they're also my friends, they know more about my life, they know when my makeup's done or it's not done, or I've had a rough night with the kids, and that $5 cup of coffee is so much more than just a $5 cup of coffee. Sometimes they are the only humans other than adults, other than my husband and my kids I see in a day. Or put a value on the $150 lunch that you're going to catch up with most of your girlfriends once a year at. That kind of thing as well is important too. Yeah, absolutely. And I think setting once you've been in an area for a little while and a certain event is occurring annually or biannually, it's much easier also to have that on the calendar and say everyone is going to get to do this event. You can budget for it as well. Yeah, oh, that's so lovely. And, worst case, just ring up the council or join your local CWA. You haven't joined local CWA, you haven't joined a CWA yet. Maybe come join ours. I think the Colette branch would probably be more my pace than trying to get into the bigger cities.
Speaker 1:For people who want to follow your journey, you wear multiple hats. Where can they best find you? I hang out on Instagram the most, so under the Ultimate Farm Wife, I do dabble in Facebook, but also, if you're having enjoyed this chat and liked the idea of the Ultimate Farm Wife and what we're doing over there podcast on all major platforms is the great place to find us. That's also under the Ultimate Farm Wife and same as the YouTube channel. Some great tips there from Katja and, yes, she does have a great podcast too. You should check it out. We all support each other in this game, especially my episode, and, jen, you've got an episode too that is worth listening to on the Ultimate Farm Wife 100%.
Speaker 1:Kirsten, you grew up in Western Sydney and have spent time in Melbourne before settling in the country, while I lived in Canberra and Sydney for 15 years before coming back to rural Australia, so we both know what it's like to come from busy centres to small communities and the intricacies that come with starting over or fitting into our husband's well-established social groups. Yes, and it was really hard moving from Sydney to Melbourne and making friends. I'd almost say it was easier in the country. It's like a different game in the city. But I was younger and I had work and then I made friends that way over time. But the country is a different ball game. So I had a really interesting chat to Melinda Guest about this, who has her own experience of returning to her hometown after a career in the city and in different cities all over the world and what it's like moving back decades later. So I live on a farm outside of a town called Narrabri and not many people know where that is. So when describing it I tell people it's about three hours west of Tamworth and people will think, oh, tamworth, country music capital, yeah, just keep driving west.
Speaker 1:So I was born and raised on a farm out here and first in my family to attend university and also then to engage in a career outside of farming ag industry as well. So very new, and my family originally were quite daunted by the idea that I was going to pursue a career in psychology. Originally they thought that psychologists were mind readers and that I was going to come home and find all the deep, dark secrets, which obviously does not happen. So with that, pursued that and got to a point where I completed my master's degree and moved through the psychology registration process and then moved back to Narrabri. So I went away for school and university and then moved back to Narrabri to work in the community mental health team and spent a couple of years there and really worked out. Actually this is a really nice place to work. There's lots of need for mental health resources, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:And then after that, headed overseas, moved back from London with a fiance and went to Sydney, and then now I'm back to Narrabri as well. So that's in a nutshell, but that's my journey. So where did you go to university? You had to move away. Yeah, so I had to move away. I was living in Brisbane and so I did a social science degree and so then I thought this is not enough to get me going. And then I followed a bad boyfriend to Toowoomba and then I completed my master's there at the University of Southern Queensland, cusq, and spent a number of years there and, yeah, like I said, did my registration and worked at a hospital there.
Speaker 1:And you said you're living on a farm now. So is that your property, your family's property, no, my family farm, so my mum and dad's family farm, which has been the family for a number of generations, and so we live out here. And so when I say we, my husband and we've got three little children, we've got a little six-year-old who's just started school and twin boys who are three. So they just love farm life and country life, particularly the boys, who are just wild, to be honest. They just love the space and love what life is like out here. Oh, they'd be like little tiger cubs. That's what I describe my boys as yes, always jumping on each other and rolling around. They're not twins, but they're close in age. Yes, yeah, like twins would just be constantly like on each other. And they're at that age where you turn around and all of a sudden, one of them is on the roof or one of them is down the paddock, or one of them is somewhere where they shouldn't be, and it's within seconds, and they're just there and together they work and they're like oh no, you do it, you do it, okay, we'll do it together. And then so they egg each other on, which is a liability, to be honest. Do you work on the farm as well, or your husband. How does that operation work? Yeah, I would describe it as farming enthusiasts, and so we mainly we work off the farm but definitely help out when we can. So my husband, he's an engineer, so he works off the farm and, yeah, when we can, we do and, yeah, a part of that working operations as well.
Speaker 1:So you've really had this lovely journey of returning home, yeah, but on this particular episode, we're really talking about people who have moved to an area. You would have had to experience that kind of reintegration. I think when people move back to their home, they think sometimes that it's going to be just like it was. No, it's definitely not the same. I was actually having a conversation about this recently.
Speaker 1:I went away to school, to boarding school, and then came back between school and university and I remember coming back and I thought, oh, I'm just way too cool for country life, I'm never coming back here to live here. Oh, no, I'm too cool for school. And I was 18, 19. I'm like, nope, I'm never coming back here, I am moving to the city. I am, I'm no, I just am outgrown in this place. See you later.
Speaker 1:And so I had that belief for a few years in my twenties and then over time it's just slowly softened my belief around that. And then I got to my thirties and I thought, actually I think I'm going to move back. And I said that to my husband and he's from England and so he's not ever lived in country New South Wales or Australia and I said I think we should go back. And his original thoughts were what, why, like, what are we going to do out there? I said no, I think, and I was pregnant at the time with our first baby. I'm like, yeah, I think it's time to go back. And it was just an internal feeling. It was there was nothing there that was physically happening. We was like, yeah, let's move back. And so we did move back.
Speaker 1:And, coming back to it, when I worked out here, originally in my mid to late 20s, I had a brilliant group of friends, loads of friends working at the hospital, community health, playing sport, just loads of friends. And so when I moved back, I thought that's where life would pick up and it would be exactly the same. And it wasn't because we had changed. I had changed. I had had different experiences and had moved to different cities and different countries. I had a newborn baby.
Speaker 1:So very different space to where I was in my late twenties compared to when we moved back when I was in my 30s, definitely. So what did you need to do to perhaps either rebuild some of those relationships or find new ones? And so this was just before COVID as well, and so that was also an interesting period, and so essentially it was for me, it was stepping back and really reflecting on the space that I was in and really taking that time to explore my values and my beliefs to what it was that I was looking for in regards to friendships and connections. And so when I left, when I was in my mid to late twenties, I was single, I could go out, I could come and go, I had flexibility. And then when I came back the second time in my 30s, I didn't have that because I was in a different space. Like I said, I had a newborn baby, so I couldn't have that flexibility as much as what I did. I couldn't go out, I couldn't go to the local pubs or clubs or things like that.
Speaker 1:Compared to what I did, essentially, I was looking back now and that reflection is that what was I looking for in terms of friendships and connections and how else could I make friends? How else could I make connections? And so it was through that of different avenues that I would not have explored previously, such as childcare, such as mother's groups. This was any social events that were coming up, whether that be talking about health or talking about certain social activities. There were events that would come to town that we would join, that I previously wouldn't have joined. So it was that commitment to that, to explore the different avenues and different pathways that I previously wouldn't have done.
Speaker 1:Did you ever get it wrong? And I don't mean wrong in a big way, but just maybe thought you'd be into a particular group of people but then you just didn't fit in all of those things? Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's really important and again, just putting it back to self in terms of that insight and awareness, is that some people won't like you, some people won't like what you bring to the table and you just won't be their cup of tea. And that's okay, that is really okay. And so with that there, through some certain pathways or different areas that we explored, there were some people that that didn't. There were some people that didn't like what I was bringing or didn't like who I was, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:And what we do, though, is that we have to keep trying. And then, when we do keep trying, that's when we do explore or experience different people, different personalities, and that's where we find that, actually, these are our people, and they were not our people. We thought that they might be, but they're not. So, initially, there was that perceived rejection and, oh, that's like why don't they like me? Like, why don't I what? Like, why don't they like me? And it's for whatever reason whether they didn't like me or they didn't like where who I was, or if they were in a different space in their life, and that's okay. But initially, it was like, oh yeah, like that hurts a bit. Maybe I don't want to do this anymore. However, I kept pursuing it.
Speaker 1:And different personalities, like. I find it hard if someone doesn't like me. As I get older, I care less and less, but I do, and I think, oh, why don't they like me? How can I make them like me? Yes, but that's a very that's not the right way to think about it, and sometimes it's just that people don't have time for a new friendship or for you in their lives, and while you might be looking for it because you're new to town. Yeah, they might have got their friendship group from high school that they've always had, that's right, and their work friends, that's right. They don't need you. Yeah, in terms of them being in a different space compared to you. It's having that ability to reflect on that or to have that insight around it is that they may not like you, and that's okay, but also they may not be in the space or capacity to bring in a new friend or to be open to a friendship. That what you're looking for, and that's interesting is that there are different levels of friendship and so perhaps in that moment, what they're looking for is someone to have a small chit chat at school pickups with, and that's fine, but at that point, what you're looking for is a deeper connection. So there is a mismatch within those friendship expectations or what you're looking for, and that's okay, that's okay. That doesn't mean, therefore, you're a bad person or they're a bad person. It is what it is.
Speaker 1:In regards to that, what about, say, groups of people? And I know that when I moved to the farm so this is where my husband grew up he hadn't moved away for a time, but he'd been living back here for six years before he met me, and so he introduced me to all of his friends, which was fantastic. But breaking into a group of people that perhaps all went to school together or grew up somehow, it's really tricky, it is. And even with that, forming your own identity around that. So I'd imagine originally you would have been known as, oh, that's, you're such and such's husband, like that's who you are. Oh yeah, I'm the wife. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, the wife, you're just that's who you are. You're. Oh yeah, you're the wife and that's. And actually, no, I'm more than just the wife here, and so it is.
Speaker 1:It does take time, then, to identify and to establish an identity around that is separate from our partners and from your husband, and so what you do then again is moving into that space, saying, yeah, yep, that's one role I do play, and I also do play many other roles, and so it's working with those people who are in those groups, saying, hey, what other roles do you play? Are you just the partners and the husbands and the wives, or do you do other things? Tell me about that, tell me about what other things you do in your life. Do you work, are you a parent, are you a sibling, are you, do you travel? Tell me about the other roles that you do play in your life. And then it's finding that common ground with that and finding that then connection of hey look, we've got some other things in common, as opposed to just being partners within this group.
Speaker 1:And I always think you make friends with individuals, not groups. Like you can't just walk into a group and be besties with everyone. Isn't there that saying about friendships like an equation of, like, maybe, shared values plus time? Yeah, and you just can't manufacture the time? Yeah, absolutely. But even stepping it back, though, and breaking into that group, it is looking at those individuals whom you have that common ground with, and then it's actually then actively engaging in the pursuit of the connection or friendship. So it doesn't just happen, so it's you just walk into the group and see a couple of people like, oh yeah, they look like they could be my friends and so, therefore, we just will be friends. No, it takes commitment, it takes energy, it takes planning and organization. What we do know, particularly around forming friendships, is that it is an ongoing commitment.
Speaker 1:Often we have this belief that friends it will just be easy to make friends, and often that belief stems from our childhood experiences, where, as a child, it's like kids, they just make friends. You think about kids in the playground and they just walk up to someone and they say, hey, I like the way you look, right, be my friend. And the other child says, great, now we're best friends. And that's how the friendships form. And often what we do find is that as adults, we have this belief that it will just be easy, like that, like it should just be easy, like that you meet someone and you should just be able to be friends. It's those casual suggestions of catching up and then it forms into something more from there. But you have to pursue it. It has to remain something that you committed to because it just doesn't happen, and it has to be two-way as well. Yeah, it does. I imagine again kids, they they're like I'll be my friend and the that child says, no, I don't want to. But that child's okay, fine, I'll move to the next person, that's fine.
Speaker 1:But us as adults I touched on a little bit before is that perception of rejection, or that perceived rejection. We're more sensitive to it. So if we're saying to that person hey, let's catch up for coffee and that person says no, like I'm actually really busy, or yeah, there's the casual kind of blow off where it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, sure, I'll put something in the diary. Yeah, sure, sure, but really it's not going to happen. And so then that is that rejection, or that perceived rejection, and so, yeah, it does sting a little bit, it does. And what we do then is say, okay, what else do I do now? So maybe they're not in the space, or maybe they don't like me, but maybe they're not in a space that they're looking for a friend. So who else can I explore? What other connections can I explore here that will meet my needs for a friendship or connection as well?
Speaker 1:What about when friendships expire? We might've been really close at school or at work 20 years ago, but now it's not there. Or we've just drifted, or we've grown apart, or we've had different experiences or different relationships, different career pathways, or we've outgrown what that friendship originally was providing us Absolutely. And so, again, it's bringing back to self is that, what are my values at the moment? What is it that I'm looking for and where am I sitting in regards to what I value? So am I valuing things that are different compared to when I was 20? At 20, for example, for myself, I had more time, more flexibility, I was a lot less tired than what I am at the moment. So again, it's bringing back to those values and that friendship that you may have had when you were 20, you are in a different space now and that's okay. And so again, it's looking at those different values to where you were, to who you are now. And I think when that happens, I think that's quite a natural thing.
Speaker 1:Like through life, you can't remain besties with everyone that comes in and out of your life. But what about when it's a really strong friendship and can you almost grieve a friendship? How do you process that? And I'll give you an example of a really good friend of mine. I was in my hometown recently and caught up with a good friend of mine who I normally see and was asking her about another friend that we went to school with. They were so tight, really great friends, and she said, oh, I don't actually see her, I haven't seen her in years, and explained that on the other end she had changed significantly and just they went up. They live interstate. They went up and visited them and this other friend made excuses to not see them and then when they brought up, it was only for half an hour and it was weird, yeah, and I know that she would have been incredibly hurt by all of that. That was a very close friendship.
Speaker 1:How do you come to terms with a friendship ending when you perhaps didn't expect it to Absolutely? And so that grief experience is very real and is very normal in terms of what we expect with that when we talk about grief therapy or processing grief. A long time ago, a uni lecturer was telling me about a particular phrase that they use with grief therapy and that's people come into our life for a reason, a season or a lifetime, and so it's about managing those expectations. And so, while we may have thought that someone was coming into our life for a lifetime and a lifetime friend, circumstances change, experiences happen, and a lifetime friend circumstances change, experiences happen and that their pathway may be this way and your pathway is that way, and so that friendship that was, or what we thought was, in terms of the lifetime, is not.
Speaker 1:And so again we now say, actually, that friendship was in our life for a season, in terms of a much shorter period of time than what we thought, and so we are very sad, we are hurt, we are confused about it. It doesn't make sense because 12 months ago, great friends, but now not, and so it does hurt, and so we may not get answers for that. We may not ever get a true explanation for why that friendship has dissolved or has separated, and that's also something, then, that we need to take on board and say, okay, what can we take from that? What is an explanation for us that makes sense for us? And that other person may not give us anything back in terms of an explanation. So it's okay, this is something that I will now carry with me that will never truly have an answer to why. I think this is what happened, and also I feel very sad about it. I feel very hurt by it, and it's an experience that we carry with us, and that's where that grief will be.
Speaker 1:Should you ask for an explanation if you are in a situation where a friend, a good friend, just doesn't seem to want you in their life anymore, just doesn't seem to want you in their life anymore? Yes, if it is appropriate, so not to a point where it becomes a constant messaging why it also can be that again, bring it back to yourself, say, hey, I've just noticed some changes in our friendship. I've noticed that things are not what they were. I'm just wondering what's going on, what's happening. So it's those very gentle conversations, very gentle startups. If we try that a couple of times and then that friend says to us, it's fine, we also then have to move into a space that actually that friend doesn't want to share, that with us, doesn't want to disclose with us at that point, and so we then need to respect where they're at and then for us then to take a step back from it. But we don't keep pursuing it. I message every single day or every single week. Why are you not calling me? Why are you not contacting me? What's happening? What's happening, what's happening. But again it's that very gentle startup or very gentle conversation saying, hey, I'm noticing some differences, what's happening? Is everything okay? Not, have I done something wrong? We don't move into that space that, hey, I'm noticing some differences. What's happening? What's going on?
Speaker 1:Another reflection I've had about thinking about my own journey and I've been living where I am now for about 11 years and I really love all of my friends and community and feel very much at home and settled, which is a beautiful feeling. But I love that I also have made some great friends from different age groups. My neighbours who unfortunately, have moved away, but I still see them, they're in their 60s became great friends. They used to live down the road and I'd pop around when I had little babies and they were wonderful. Yeah, and I think that's also be aware then of your values and what you value them within a friendship, and that the value is that what those different age groups, different communities, different cultures, different people bring to your space as well. So it's not that you're looking for a specific person to meet this specific idea of what a friendship is. It's actually no, I'm open to it all. If you are matching my values in terms of, say, honesty, adventure, trust, openness, yeah, we will have things in connection. So, wherever you are in terms of your background, I will connect with you, and so that's where that sharing will come. But again, bringing it back to that, there's values. It's not an age, specific individual, one person that will meet that. No, it's across the board. What connects you are those shared values, and so that shared values might be humor, and that's what connects you and that's where you'll build that connection and that friendship. That's where it starts. Melinda, thank you so much. I think I've learned so much. And that's it from Ducks on the Pond. Thank you for listening, and thanks again to our guests, melinda Guest and Katja Williams.
Speaker 1:It's such an interesting topic and so I'm currently planning my 40th birthday and, in an attempt to try to keep numbers down, I came to the decision that if we've had a coffee or a meaningful catch up together in the last 12 months, you're in, but it still gives me sleepless nights having to leave people out. Oh, that's hard, isn't it? And it's that transition from the city to the country. But, yeah, I like your thinking. Maybe you and I should have a special joint 40th podcast episode, because I turned the big 4-0 just after you, so I don't know what we talk about. Maybe the theme would be it's okay to be 40. And maybe our sponsor today, dimity Smith she's an events coordinator as well, so we could put her in charge of doing some party planning around it as well. I was just thinking of it being a virtual event, but now this is getting big. But let's meet Dimity because, yes, she does have an advanced company, but she's also got this really cool new platform called Grow Rural. So let's hear from Dimity.
Speaker 1:So I live in Tamworth, new South Wales. Originally, I'm from Scone, my family is still there, they're on a dairy farm and I love living in rural Australia. I've been in Tamworth for 15 years now. I was a psychologist for 10 of those years and the last five have been working within an events and marketing agency my own events and marketing agency, grow Events Group and will recently grow rural. What a big career change for you from psychology to events and now this new platform. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I was one of those girls that at school I was like this is what I want to do. I want to be a psychologist, I want to help people, blah, blah, blah. Really very focused on that, did that, got into it and realized this is just not my space. It was really funny because friends used to say to me why are you going to bed early? And I was saying because I don't want to wake up the next morning and have to go back into that level of stress again and they're like that's not how a career should feel like, that's not what work should feel like, whereas now I'm like excited for work every day, and so I worked through that. It was a really clear sort of three-year plan to transition my career. I had a side hustle business named Savvy Birds with a friend where we did networking events for rural, regional women, did some work with the Department of Primary Industries, and so I started to gradually transition across my career to GrowVets Group, which I love and it's my natural element. So organizing, coordinating, working with lots of different people, building relationships, and I love to make people look fabulous. So, whether that's their company themselves or any sort of organizational mission, that's what I love to see happen and that works naturally with Grow Events Group.
Speaker 1:And we're actually here to talk about your new platform, which is Grow Rural. Can you tell me what that is? So Grow Rural is a platform that I basically was recruiting for Grow Events Group and I was like why can I not find rural talent? I really specifically wanted to find rural talent for this role that we're looking for as a comms person, and I thought it is so hard to find those people that only want to work either part-time or as contractor. If you're searching on LinkedIn, it is so hard to, you can't filter, for I want a rural person who has understanding of rural, regional agricultural life or particular industries. And you couldn't do that. And so that's where I looked at this concept and I thought maybe I can do this. And so I worked with my graphic designer and web developer and I said can we come up with an initial concept for this? And yeah, it's just grown since then. We've now got over 60 people on the platform. We've had significant investment and support from the dairy industry. So my background, obviously coming from dairy farming family and now it's really working not only as a directory for dairy industry service providers, which is a big component of the platform, but also now having agricultural service providers, professional service providers and a range of different people who consult and work with the industries. If you could kind of imagine Seed cross with LinkedIn, but specifically for ag people, and then had a baby. So, yeah, great, and I'm listed there. So that's really exciting.
Speaker 1:It's funny and I've spoken about this before this kind of notion of like brand rural and how it is. It's almost like a skill or an expertise kind of understanding rural Australia, because when you don't have that, it can really trip people up in like any industry. Yeah, absolutely, and I think it's so easily picked up when it's not actually authentic. I think that's been the really interesting thing. I've even spoken with clients of ours who have worked with other agencies that have said you can tell when they come in their RMs and their cowboy boots that they're playing a part. They're not authentically connected to the land or rural regional Australia, and I think that's one of the things is that people that live that brand rural or a part of that brand rural, is that they really understand it because they live it and they get it and they don't have to turn it on. You don't have to explain it to someone. They understand and I think that's a thing like you being on the platform and people that are doing all kinds of amazing things comms people. Sky Ward's on there and she's done amazing things in comms and with that market kind of analytic lens on it.
Speaker 1:You know there's really specific niches that have those that have understanding of rural life and you can't play that up and you can't. It's not guesswork, you have to actually live it and that's, I think, the competitive advantage of our platform is the fact that you have people who truly understand and live rural life and that's where we have corporates that are coming to the platform. On average at the moment it's one to two a week that they're coming through. They're contacting people about work really specific, like one I think last week was about someone wanted livestock writing, so they wanted someone who specifically understood livestock to be able to write and so to know that corporates are going. Oh, we know that we can go to this platform and contact someone who specifically can do that. We don't have to explain it to them. Not only saves them time and money, but it's also money that's going back into a rural economy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember once advising a company that had some ag photos Australian company and on the front page of their website and I was like that's a soybean crop, that's American. Nothing says America more than corn and soybeans. And I was like wheat and canola, if you want to look Australian. Yeah, not soybeans and corn, I know, and I think it's the same as when I look at dairy cows and when people go to post and you're like that's a bull, that's not a cow. Look at things like that that you think, oh my God, they just don't have a clue. I know we did some work recently for AgriFutures and we put a chicken on it and they're like guys, just so. You know, the chicken meat industry, it's white chooks, and that was back at the start when we started that project and we went oh, it's just because that was not authentically where we had been in. We're interested in the industry but we hadn't learned those things yet, and I think that's something that inherently comes from someone who truly understands the ag space that they're in, and that's what you can get from Grow Rural. Yeah, right Now, I love to ask this question what's a good piece of business advice that you've been given or you've somehow come across that you really want to share?
Speaker 1:So I think what I've learned with time is that you really need to know who are those people you're going to outsource to and really make a clear plan for that. And I think there's been this kind of culture of like in a startup you just do everything and, yes, you can, but you have to actually know your limits. You have to be able to look at is it really most efficient for me to do all of the setup on zero when I could have an accountant do it for me in half an hour and that money could be spent my time on working with stakeholders, because that's what I do best, you know. It's really about weighing up time is money and what is the return on investment with these sorts of things. So it's really working with whether it is a particular developer who can turn changes around to the platform, rather than you spending two days figuring out how to do something. Time is money and I think you've got to really think about being really smart about outsourcing and it doesn't have to cost you a fortune, because that time you save means you'll move further ahead with your business.
Speaker 1:What can people do if they either want to get listed on the platform or perhaps find someone on there? So if they head to growruralcomau, you can have a look at the page. It looks beautiful and on the front you've got three options. You can either search for talent across the entire website, you can look for a dairy service provider, or you can go to the sign up and list yourself as a provider. Also, too, I'll give a hot tip that if you're dialing in for any of our lunch and learns that we do every few months, we commonly have a discount code. So if people join that get to be part of the community, they can then get a discount code to sign up, but otherwise, if you're ready to go, get on there and you can sign up straight away, any problems at all. You can email jess at growruralcomau, but the website's growruralcomau and also the same grow rural on our social media pages dimity. Thank you again for sponsoring that's on the pond. We really appreciate your support.
