Episode 37: Strengthening Our Nuclear Network with Bill Tindal, Tennessee Nuclear Network

Today, we talk to Bill Tindal, Director of the Tennessee Nuclear Network (TN2)

TN2 is powered by ETEC, the East Tennessee Economic Council. It’s the state's official partnership - designated by Governor Bill Lee - to strengthen Tennessee’s position as a global hub for nuclear.

In this episode, we cover:

• Tennessee being chosen as a finalist for a nuclear lifecycle innovation campus - and what this could mean for our nuclear renaissance
• The importance of expanding partnerships and connecting companies to the resources they need here in Tennessee
• How TAEBC, ETEC, and TN2 support each other, and why that’s a key to success for our advanced energy economy

Transcript

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Cortney Piper 0:03

Welcome to Energizing Tennessee, powered by the Tennessee Advanced Energy Business Council. We're your number one podcast for news about Tennessee's advanced energy sector. I'm your host, Courtney Piper. Today we talked to Bill Tindall, the director of the Tennessee Nuclear Network, or TN Squared. TN Squared is powered by ETEC, the East Tennessee Economic Council. It's the state's official partnership designated by Governor Bill Lee to strengthen Tennessee's position as a global hub for nuclear. Bill Tindall and I talked about the news of Tennessee being chosen as a finalist for a nuclear lifecycle innovation campus and what this could mean for our nuclear renaissance. Bill knows the importance of expanding partnerships and connecting companies to the resources they need here in Tennessee. And I have firsthand experience with this. I've known Bill for years. Our careers have crossed paths numerous times through e-tech and his work at Y-12. We also talk about how our organizations work together, supporting each other, and why that's key to success for our advanced energy economy. Enjoy the show. If you like what you hear, subscribe to our podcast and don't forget to leave a rating or review. It helps us reach a wider audience to champion Tennessee's advanced energy sector. Energizing Tennessee would not be possible without the support of our TAEBC members. Welcome to the show, Bill.

Bill Tindal 1:32

Thanks, Cortney. It's great to be here.

Cortney Piper 1:34

Now, this is a really special episode for me, and I think we should tell our listeners that you and I have something in common. Not only does energy connect us, but you are the current chair of the East Tennessee Economic Council, and I am the previous past chair of the uh we call it e-tech, the East Tennessee Economic Council. So we've got a a special connection there.

Bill Tindal 1:57

We definitely do. And those were uh it's tough to follow in your shoes.

Cortney Piper 2:01

Well, well, thank you, Bill. Thank you. You are doing one heck of a job. And I think maybe we should start off, start off this podcast today. First, Bill, tell our listeners a little bit more about your experience and how you came to work with eTech and TN Squared.

Bill Tindal 2:18

Sure, I'd be glad to. So I've always been involved in nuclear operations. I had a nuclear engineering degree back in the uh late 80s, worked at a naval shipyard for a time period, but spent most of my career at the Y-12 National Security Complex, where I was involved in just a variety of different nuclear operations assignments. In uh 2014, when uh the current managing contractor took over, I was a site manager for that. And again, most of the stuff in my career where I had the most fun were those times when I was closest to the work, closest to the workforce, and you had the satisfaction of getting something done every day. I retired from Y-12 in 2022 and uh joined a company called Omega Technical Services. Uh and I had the choice of a couple different companies to work for, but I chose Omega because of its nuclear operations background. Uh and then when the opportunity came up to be the chair or the director rather of the Tennessee Nuclear Network, uh our owner Tim Trapazzano was uh gracious enough to allow me to be a loaned executive and assign me to e-Tech to help establish what the Tennessee Nuclear Network is should be. And ultimately, hopefully by the next spring, spring of 27, uh, we'll get a more permanent director hired on and I'll return back to Omega.

Cortney Piper 3:35

Now let's set the stages even further for our listeners that don't know the power and the gem that is ETEC, the East Tennessee Economic Council. So this organization has become an absolute powerhouse, not only to advocate for the Department of Energy missions that exist in Oak Ridge, but one that has bubbled up to the top is nuclear energy. And this organization for a very long time, I've been involved with it since 2009, has served as the hub, as the focal point for anything in the Oak Ridge community, anything related to Department of Energy missions, this is your go-to organization. And as this administration, this White House has developed priorities related to the nuclear renaissance, East Tennessee, and in particular ETEC found itself in this just phenomenal spot where not only does it spend time convening and connecting all of those players with Department of Energy missions, but also with the private sector as well. And so because e-Tech has risen to the that level of powerhouse, Governor Bill Lee took notice of that. And he said, look, we need one organization that is going to con that is going to serve this statewide function of advocating and marketing and connecting people in the nuclear energy industry. And Governor Lee chose e-tech and this TN Square Tennessee Nuclear Network Initiative chose e-tech to be the home for that. And we are so incredibly grateful to have you with your background serving as that inaugural director. So, Bill, with that in the background, I want you to continue to paint the picture for our listeners about what this community is like. If you come into Oak Ridge and you are either in or not in the nuclear energy supply chain, what does it look like? Kind of just paint the picture even further for folks.

Bill Tindal 5:36

Yeah, I'll go into a little bit of, you know, my involvement in e-tech has gone on for a long time. Back when I was, you know, middle management at Y-12, what it really opened my eyes to is the fact that e-Tech takes an approach of a full ecosystem rather than just being about the Department of Energy presence, its importance, but it also makes sure that all of the other industries, companies that are required to make a true ecosystem are connected and aligned. And that's why I think the uh the governor chose e-tech uh to be the home for the Tennessee Nuclear Network. What I found in my time in the seat, we are not at a loss for people trying to promote to trying to do beneficial things that promote the nuclear industries and help move Tennessee forward. Hacking is a bit of organization and ensuring that each of the ores that are in the water are all paddling the same direction.

Cortney Piper 6:32

And that is your is that responsibility on you, Bill? Is that is that your charge as the TN Square director?

Bill Tindal 6:38

I think I am the orchestrator of the ores.

Cortney Piper 6:41

Great. Now, I know that you've got some high-level facts and stats about the nuclear energy industry in Oak Ridge. So can you share some of those with our with us?

Bill Tindal 6:51

Sure. So just kind of a little bit by the numbers from the standpoint of companies that have come to the area, probably the best measure is our monthly Tennessee Nuclear Network meeting where we receive updates from about a dozen different projects, some of them individual companies, some of them have been long-standing members of the area, like the Tennessee Value Authority and Oak Ridge National Lab, but just a large amount of new companies that are coming into the area that are at a variety of different stages of maturity. Some are conceptual doing research and development, others have a broken ground and poured their concrete and their steel is being erected. And others are up in operation with plans to expand. So it's really a wide variety of different levels of implementation. We are expecting, and the numbers change, so we always hesitate to use some specific numbers, but we're looking in excess of $10 billion worth of investment. Some of the early numbers that we receive from an employment perspective were 3,000 additional jobs. We know now that that number is significantly undershooting what we expect that to be for the region. And so um just the the impact of nuclear in this area is uh is sizable and also say it's appropriate. I mean, there's a reason why these nuclear companies came to East Tennessee, and it is you've got a community that is used to things nuclear and is receptive to it. Uh you've got intellectual capital that is in the area from Oak Ridge National Laboratory or closeness to the University of Tennessee. You've got the investment from the state, and you've also got land that's available. Many thanks to the decades of work that were done to clean up the old gaseous diffusion plant at East Tennessee Technology Park that has paid off in huge ways to make land available for these new companies to come to the area and be successful.

Cortney Piper 8:41

It has been an incredible asset and advantage for East Tennessee to have that property and to have it cleaned up and available for reindustrialization. We are one of the only DOE sites that has that kind of property, A, that has been cleaned up effectively for reindustrialization, but we're also fairly close to city life. So we're not in the middle of nowhere where you have to drive hours and hours and hours for your home or to go see the doctor or to go to a restaurant or something like that. In addition to being where we are physically located, within 30 miles, there's the Department of Energy's largest science and energy national lab. We have the nation's largest public power provider, which has an immense, tremendous expertise in nuclear energy and wants to lead. And then we also have the University of Tennessee, which has, I think it's the oldest, if not one of the oldest, nuclear engineering programs. Those things don't exist together anywhere else in the country. And we have them in East Tennessee. And now pile on top of that $10 billion worth of private sector investment. And the world is our oyster. So, because of all of these things and because of all of the this activity, uh the Department of Energy recently announced Tennessee as one of five states being considered for a nuclear lifecycle innovation campus. So, Bill, can you talk more about this? First of all, what it is and what opportunity it it presents our community and and the country, really.

Bill Tindal 10:16

Yeah, absolutely. It is early, uh, but Tennessee is one of the five uh finalists to be selected as a lifecycle innovation campus. Um, but I will say Tennessee is very well positioned, knowing what the assets uh that are here in the state, it is, um, it's exciting times. The state has the lead in working with the Department of Energy to determine exactly how that will progress. But I think it's really what's energizing for me, no pun intended, is that it's really about the life cycle of uranium for fuel to power the new our nuclear future. And it's really changing our way of thinking with respect to fuel. I mean, today's life cycle for nuclear fuel is we'll mine uranium out of the ground, we'll convert it, enrich it, enrich it, deconvert it, turn it into fuel. I'll burn about 5% of that in a nuclear reactor, and then that used nuclear fuel will stay at that nuclear reactor for the foreseeable future until some point at which DUE has agreed to take custody of that fuel and uh and take long-term, make make the long-term, um, let me start over with that. It'll be that at that point it'll be up to the Department of Energy to figure out exactly how to disposition that used nuclear fuel. My personal belief, and this comes from that is that recycling of used nuclear fuel is is essential for our future. Think about it like um, well, I mean, about five years ago I bought my first hybrid car, which was, you know, fascinating and all that good stuff. It had all the benefits of of the efficiency gains from that. But now when I switch over and drive a traditional car, I feel a little bit guilty. When I'm braking, I no longer am recovering that energy from braking. In a traditional car, I'm turning that into heat. And that heat is just dissipating out of the environment. It's wasted. And so I think while it's cheaper to buy a traditional car than a hybrid or electric vehicle, there's something honorable about ensuring that we're recycling and being a steward of the assets that we have and use it in to the best benefit we can. And so uh back to life cycle campus, the timeline for that is you know, sometime in the September to October timeframe, uh DUE and the state uh may potentially come to an agreement. And we'll all just need to stay tuned to what the results of that agreement are and uh what that looks like moving forward.

Cortney Piper 12:36

And and speaking of that, let's keep talking about uh the nuclear supply chain and companies. And what do you think companies need to know about the state and the Oak Ridge area when it comes to doing business in Tennessee?

Bill Tindal 12:53

Yeah, I think that the they need to know that there's a tremendous amount of opportunity for them to be engaged. You know, a lot of people like to point to the fact that um nuclear is special, that there's some extra need for quality controls and the the reliability and usability of the equipment coming out of our supply chain partners. And while that's true, it's also true from every other customer that these supply chain companies have. It's I don't think it pays them the right respect to assume that they can't meet nuclear quality standards when they're meeting, say, for example, an auto industry standards, which we rely on that for our safety on a daily basis. So I think they need to be aware of the delta between what the quality standards they may have for their commercial partners versus those that are nuclear. And I don't think that they're that they're insurmountable, that they're definitely achievable by these companies. And then get engaged, maintain awareness of what these companies might be needing and uh take advantage where you can.

Cortney Piper 13:52

And the TN, let's pause for a moment here, Bill, and talk a little bit more about what we call TN Squared, the Tennessee Nuclear Network, and what opportunities it provides companies to get engaged, whether you're already here, whether you may or may not be in the supply chain, and maybe you're curious about if you could or could not be in the supply chain. And then if you're looking into Tennessee. So talk a little bit more about TN Squared and the opportunities it provides for engagement.

Bill Tindal 14:20

Yeah, the Tennessee Nuclear Network really goes back to that orchestrator convener role that we talked about previously. So one of the one of the things that was really important to me is to make sure that we maintain good connection between the nuclear companies coming to the area and the assets that are available to them at their fingertips. And so one of the things that we've instituted in our monthly meetings is to spotlight for some of these projects the suppliers, the service providers, and the technical companies that are there and available to these companies. And we've already seen a couple occasions where we've made a connection between, in one case, it was an analytical lab that was there doing analysis and has been doing analysis for decades. And we had one new company come to the area, ask them a very specific question about an analytical process, and they were able to make that connection. Now, as soon as they got into the details of it, they went way over my head. But it was neat to see that interaction occur that wouldn't have happened had it not been for the network. So for other companies that want to become and get involved, I'd say join e-tech, join the network, um, get exposed to the different opportunities that are out there. And like I said before, take advantage where you can.

Cortney Piper 15:35

And like you said too, because e-Tech is responsible for this initiative, you will be exposed to a whole community or whole ecosystem approach. So while business-to-business networking is a huge and tremendous benefit, you're also able to network and interact with, by virtue of e-tech, which is a membership that that comes with that, to an entire community, an entire ecosystem that can help either support your business or you know, any other one of the multiple benefits that comes from participating in this industry.

Bill Tindal 16:12

Yeah, totally agree. The the opportunities are there. And from an ecosystem perspective, I don't know of anywhere else where there's a routine conversation about all the different aspects of the community that need to be involved.

Cortney Piper 16:26

Bill, let's talk about workforce because everybody talks about workforce, but it's especially prevalent within the nuclear energy supply chain. So what does the demand look like on the workforce development side? Since so many of these companies are competing for talent, what does that what does what do our workforce challenges look like specifically within nuclear?

Bill Tindal 16:49

Yeah, actually, I mean, let me start that answer from a different direction. Because everyone is talking about workforce, you said part of the driving factor in us doing the analysis that we did were questions from the academic institutions of what do I need to be doing? How many people do you need? Of what type of skills do they need, and when do you need them? We didn't have an answer to that. We had some very rough numbers about what we thought the workforce demands would be, but we didn't have the specifics. So what one of our partners, Oak Ridge Associated Universities, is nearing the end of what we're calling the demand study, which interviewed about 13 different companies in the area to try to get an outlook for them over the next 10 years as to what their workforce demand would look like. We all knew it would be growing, but we weren't exactly sure that what the spread would be and whether we could help shift our emphasis on these academic institutions to get the right kind of workforce that we need. What we found is that from a direct job standpoint, it's about a 3.4% annual growth over the next 10 years. And that doesn't sound like a lot. Um it certainly doesn't sound like a lot. It sounds pretty good from an economic growth perspective, but we're talking about human capital. And it's hard to grow human capital at 3.4% year over year. That is that is pretty difficult. What we found is that um, and and it's not a surprise, pretty high demand on the construction trades. We see that peaking in about 2032 with nearly 3,900 jobs being executed at that time frame. Um, and then the largest single non-construction job that we see growing is chemical plant operators or plant operators in general. Many of these companies that are coming into the area are uh in manufacturing, they're in uranium enrichment, uh, they're in a variety of different roles where the plant operator will be in very high demand.

Cortney Piper 18:43

And Bill, what you know, we've we've talked a little bit about workforce, we've talked a little bit about comp recruiting companies here. The opportunity for the nuclear supply chain, because Tennessee, in my opinion, has assumed this responsibility of leading our country's nuclear renaissance, the opportunities in nuclear and also in advanced energy extend beyond the Oak Ridge corridor. They extend beyond the Oak Ridge-Knoxville area, and and the entire state can take advantage of this. So, what do you think other economic developers in other parts of our state, county commissioners, county mayors, city mayors, what do you want them to know about this industry and how they can participate and and realize the opportunities that we have known for so long in East Tennessee?

Bill Tindal 19:34

Yeah, I think I think that probably the most important thing is to get educated. I think from an elected official standpoint, I think reach out to your partners that are elected officials in this area and kind of pick their brain as to what's working in this area so that they can bring some of those approaches back to their uh constituents. Uh, it really is an educational aspect. You know, when I look at why, I mean, if I'm in an outlying community and I'm wondering how can I get engaged in some of this and how can I educate my constituents as to why this is safe and why this is okay, you have to look at areas where it is accepted and why is the area accepting of it. It's not just a matter of people accept it just because it's the only game in town. The people that work in the Oak Ridge area, the Roan and Anderson County areas, there are other opportunities. They could go other areas, but the comfort level is there because they're used to the amount of safety that's put into operations, and they they know that when they go to work on any given day, uh they're gonna come home in as good a condition as they left.

Cortney Piper 20:42

That's one of the really uh the other amazing things about our community and our part of Tennessee, but also this industry is the emphasis placed on safety. And I don't think we can overemphasize that enough. There is such an emphasis placed on safety that we have an event every year called Safety Fest.

Bill Tindal 21:00

Right.

Cortney Piper 21:01

And it is it is the go-to event of the year for anybody in this industry supporting a Department of Energy mission to go to that event. So, you know, when you talk about safety and taking care of a community, this is an industry that does place a high priority on that.

Bill Tindal 21:19

Yeah. And one concept that I think is important to note is that in in my dealings with the new companies that have come to the area, many of them are competitors with each other, but they're all aligned around one thing, and that is they need to assure the public's trust. And they know that their performance with respect to safety either is going to strengthen that trust or erode it. And what I've seen is that that feeling of a shared outcome between all the companies has caused a lot of interaction to share best practices, even when they're in direct competition with each other. It's really been an encouraging, encouraging landscape.

Cortney Piper 21:55

Bill, I'm gonna give you an opportunity here for final thoughts. So as we close out this episode of Energizing Tennessee, what do you want folks across the state to know about TN Squared or the opportunities that the nuclear energy supply chain can provide them?

Bill Tindal 22:11

Now, first, uh, Courtney, I really appreciate the opportunity to be with you today. I also appreciate the role that the Advanced Energy Business Council provides. If there's anything that I've picked up over time, is that I always felt like my job was the most important thing in the world. And then you find out that there are things around it that are equally important and make your job just one part of a bigger ecosystem. So thank you for your role with that. Final thoughts for me is I don't see a future without a significant growth in nuclear power. And that's based on the demand that we see and the available sources to meet that demand. There's really nothing out there that is well positioned to be able to meet that demand. Solar is going to be an important part of it, but there's just the available capacity is not going to get there. The same is true with wind. Hydro is, again, a very reliable and important part of the mix in our energy future, but that is something you can't grow. Natural gas and gas turbines, things like that are, again, they're available. They could be grown in the short term, but there's nothing that will be able to uh provide reliable 24-7 base load capacity than nuclear. So um, will that grow without recycling? Probably. But I think the two things for your audience to keep in mind is number one, we won't have significant growth without nuclear, providing a significant fraction of that. And I'm looking forward to growth that growth being coupled with the recycling of uh used nuclear fuel.

Cortney Piper 23:34

Well, Bill Tindall, the director of the Tennessee Nuclear Network and Initiative of eTech, thanks for coming on the show.

Bill Tindal 23:42

Glad to be here. Thanks, Gordon.

Cortney Piper 23:45

And that's our show. Thanks for tuning in to Energizing Tennessee, powered by the Tennessee Advanced Energy Business Council, your number one podcast for news about Tennessee's advanced energy sector. If you like what you heard, please share it with others or leave a rating and review. To catch the latest episodes, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget to follow TAEBC on social media or sign up for a newsletter to hear about our events and learn even more about Tennessee's growing advanced energy economy. Thank you for listening to Energizing Tennessee.