In this episode, I have a beautiful candid conversation with Vanessa Esparza, a multi-dimensional woman that wears so many labels, like us all.
Vanessa is a vibrant, hilarious, brilliant, big-hearted Latina woman. A successful HR executive based out of NYC, a daughter, a tía, a lover of fine things, a mindfulness advocate, a mentor, an avid world traveler, a certified yoga instructor, a certified coach and so much more!
This convo was so juicy I had to split it into 2 episodes!
Here's the TL;DR of what we chat about:
Sending lots of love & gratitude,
Jessie Anne Zayas
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Jessie Anne Zayas 0:00
Hello, hello, welcome to episode two of self love stories. I'm your podcast hosts, Jessie Anne Zayas. Y'all. I'm so excited about this episode. This is the first episode where I get to interview a beautiful human being on their self love Journey, the wonderful Vanessa Esparza. I got to know her and be friends with her over this past year in both of our transformational coach training program that was so intense, where we really got to dive into the different levels and facets of us as a human being. And through that journey, I really look up to her on her self love Journey, her healing journey, just honestly her life as another Latina woman, powerhouse woman in corporate America. So before we dive in, I want to share some of the main themes and of course, Intro her a little bit more, but she will intro herself in the beginning of this episode. But we talk a lot about relationships and how relationships can be a mirror into our self love Journey. We talk about our cultural upbringing as Latino women and how that's affected our self love journey as well. And we also talk about how we've navigated this journey. And just you know, I keep on saying journey because that's what we talk about. There is no destination. There's so many nuggets and realizations that we've gotten along the way. And it's a very, very packed episode of so many learnings. So many lessons, so many, so much wisdom that we both have hit on and of course, Vanessa sharing through different modalities, for example, therapy, how that's impacted and affected her self love Journey, her self discovery journey, how she defined self love as well. So again, I won't get too much into it, please listen to the episode, I've actually cut it up into two different pieces. That way, you can listen to part one and part two and digest it a little bit more as well. And last but not least, you'll hear her introduce herself. But I also just want to add just the multi dimensional being that she is not only does she have one of the biggest hearts that I know she's absolutely frickin brilliant, wise beyond the years. She's also so gracious, so kinds of giving so nurturing hilarious. She is a funny freakin human being. And like I mentioned, she's a powerhouse in corporate America. She's an SVP of human capital. She's also a registered yoga trainer. 500 hours, she's an ICF member, she's a dare to lead trainer. She is all of the things she gives back so much to her community in so many different ways. But yeah, I can't wait for you to hear her self love Journey and really a lot of the wisdom that she's learned along the way. All right, let's go ahead and dive into it. And actually, two quick disclaimers on this episode, I'm very passionate conversation we do say the F bomb every now and then and maybe BS every now and then. So try to listen with headphones if you have little kiddos around. And second of all, as a newbie Podcast Producer, realizing that there was a little bit of a delay when I was editing this episode, so there's gonna be times where unfortunately, it sounds like I'm talking over Vanessa and just made me full body cringe. So just want to throw that out there, y'all I'll get better as I continue to record these and get better software. So thanks for being so patient and being on this new journey with me sending lots of love and can't wait to dive in. Beautiful. All right, amazing. So I am here with my wonderful friend Vanessa today talking about our self love Journey, where we're at in the journey, what we've kind of discovered thus far and where we see ourselves. But before we dive into it, Vanessa, can you please introduce yourself and tell us who you are?
Hi, thank you so much, Jessie Anne for inviting me on your podcast. I'm so excited. For you. Thank you. Yes. Um, you know, it's really funny, because as I've been, you know, as I was reading the prompt of like, who are you? I started to really ask myself that question. You know, like, for so long, I defined myself by work or, you know, yes, I'm a daughter and I'm a sister and I identify as Mexican, although, I'm first generation Mexican American technically. So, you know, just really thinking about like, who, who is Vanessa and it's beautiful because, from my perspective, over the last few years, as I've been sort of exploring myself and and I think, unconsciously, subconsciously trying to define who I am. I'm, like, so many parts. There are so many parts and facets to me, and I Um, you know, on this, that and I know I'm sort of jumping ahead, but like on this journey, I'm getting to know all of those parts. And that's been. That's been really fun. So, you know, as a, as I said, I identify as, as Mexican first generation Mexican American, my
I, my sister, I have two siblings, a brother and a sister. You know, I'm an aunt, I'm a godmother. But I'm also like, a woman just sort of figuring things out.
Jessie Anne 5:40
That is so beautiful. And what I'm just so present to, can, again, I'm trying not to get ahead of myself as well. But when I'm so present to you, and even just sharing that, right, it's just how much self love is so much about self discovery, and like who you are, and that evolves and changes. And I think you use like the word like, almost like dimensional or different facets of you. And I think that's one of the most beautiful things of a self love Journey is just rediscovering all of those aspects of you are even growing into new aspects that you didn't even envision yourself to be.
Hmm, yeah, no, for sure. You know, I think that I think that growing up, I certainly had this vision of like, you know, you, you, you grow up you sure you go to school, you go to college, you get a job, you have this career, you get married, you have kids. And that sort of all people tell you, and, you know, in Mexican culture, you usually do all of that very young. And so I've been on this, this path of doing things differently. And within that, I think, comes some of that self discovery. And, you know, how to how do I want to live my life, but but also, like, I don't necessarily want to be defined by my culture, or my gender, or, although, you know, I identify as, as, as female. But that even gets into I don't even get into a whole whole nother area of like, masculine energy, feminine energy. And so it's, it's exploring all of those facets. I love that. Exactly.
Jessie Anne 7:52
Exploring, being curious, not just going off of what society or our culture, the way that we grew up defines those things for us, even to your point identifying as female, right? Like, what does that mean, you know, and even breaking that down in so many different layers for yourself and what you really resonate with? Well, I would love to add a few things. So who you are, if you don't mind? Well, I just want to personally share with you know, our listeners that, you know, I I met Vanessa, I want to say a year ago now we join this amazing coach training program together and a little I kind of will joke around I think we're also what do we kind of say like we're gluttonous for pain or punishment? Punishment? Oh, yeah. Coach Training Program was a whole year long coach training program. And it was anchored on true transformation. Like, the kind of thing was, hey, listen, you can learn everything that we're going to teach you here. But the difference between this coach training program versus any other is if you're really ready to undergo true transformation. And that is the start of me and Vanessa's journey together as just knowing each other and through that journey, oh my goodness, I learned so much about you about myself and just want to echo just the incredible, powerful woman, multi dimensional woman, that you are human spirit that you are and I think you know, what I've experienced for me this past year is you are just such a beacon of light. Such a wealth of wisdom and knowledge of just you again, doing your own work, your own discovery, and just be being willing to share at every turn what you've learned what you've discovered to really support and help other people. So you're such a giver, a nurturer? Such a wonderful just spirit in this world. And then you're a badass woman in corporate America too. And Um, you know, I know that you're based out in New York, New York, I work out of Manhattan. And we also discovered together that we're part of chief, which is an executive women's empowerment group. And we didn't really realize that until, like, I want to say a few months into the program. So, again, so many different layers and dimensions, and just again, can't thank you enough for being here with me today and sharing your journey.
Yeah, thank you, and thanks for thanks for what what you just shared? You know, I do realize, but I shared nothing about sort of my professional experience. And I think in part that was intentional, because,
you know, yes, I've, I've been in sort of corporate America for a long time. I won't say exactly how long but you know, as a leader, and, and working in human capital, talent management for a long time, and,
you know, really wanting to work with people one on one, so, you know, joining the coach training program with you. And certainly, like discovering my, my gifts and, and leaning into my intuition on on the things that I enjoy doing, whether it's an in sort of corporate America or, or not. But what I, what I have learned through that program is that, you know, I do love working with people one on one, and I love being able to support others in in their growth. And I think my growth, and my journey sort of doesn't stop, it's not really a destination. And so the more that I continue to grow, I think my intention is to be able to support others at the various phases of their journey. Hmm, that's so beautiful.
Jessie Anne 12:11
You sharing that I almost got this visual, it's like, as we grow our own container of self discovery, self love self worth, all of those amazing bits, we also grow and grow more space for others as well and can be more in support of others. Which I mean, let's go ahead and dive into it. What is your definition of self love? How do you define it for yourself?
Hmm, that's a good question. You know, I don't know that I have one. Definition. I think it, I think it, it evolves as I evolve. You know, I think it's, it's having compassion and care for myself, and, and love and curiosity. And just, you know, really creating the space for me. And, and for what, you know, exploring my needs, and exploring my,
my ambitions or exploring, you know, just just exploring all of the parts of me and self love for me is, is just having that space and creating that space and, you know, trying to do it in a way that is loving and compassionate. And with curiosity, sort of free of judgment. And, you know, I'll be honest, that, that that last piece is, is certainly a work in progress. But, you know, as I continue to expand that container, I think that I am able to love myself more freely and more generously.
Jessie Anne 14:13
One thing I was so present to in your share that just there is it's a journey, right? It's, it's, you know, I think that's, you know, part of my self love Journey is realizing there is no destination. It's just constant growth, constant discovery. And I think one of the powerful things that you said there is, you know, in a very loving, compassionate and curious way out of curiosity, I guess taking a little step back and I agree with you, I don't think there is like one definition for self love, through our conversations, even in the past and you know, as I started kind of going down the rabbit hole of self love. It feels like it kind of hits into three The big kind of categories, if you will, and I feel those categories are self discovery, cuz it's like, well, you know, how do you love yourself, if you don't even know yourself, you know, and just really, to your point, being curious with who you are, and looking at all of the, because I don't ever like to use the word good or bad when you know, looking at yourself, and just like all of the light and shadow bits of you, you know, it just wouldn't make makes you you your whole person, you know, we live in a world of duality. So why wouldn't we think that we ourselves are very, you know, we also contain that duality within ourselves. So it's like, knowing all the bits of us, because once we know who we are, then I feel like the other two really big, you know, buckets of self love is self growth, and then self care. And I think we all have different definitions of what growth and self care can look at. But again, it kind of anchors back in that self discovery. To that point, when we're looking at self discovery, how did you really I guess not How did you but yeah, I guess how, how have you gotten to know yourself through these years? What if you feel like has been, not not only the catalyst of your self love? Or sorry, self discovery journey? But, you know, what have been the elements to discover who you are?
Yeah, um, you know, it's interesting. I think relationships, being in relationship, certainly romantic relationships, but, but also friendships, that has provided so many opportunities for me to and look, I wasn't, I wasn't open to it necessarily. Like, this has been a, you know, this has been a journey 1010 years or 10 plus years of me being more aware and conscious of this process. You know, I've, I've worked with therapists over the years, I have had really tough conversations with, with my family with my mom. So it's, it's sort of throughout all of these interactions, I guess, that that I just become more present or aware of the different areas that I need to explore. You know, I was saying to, I was saying to my brother, actually the other day, just about how relationships, and I use the word, I'll use the word trigger, but I don't know I, I'd like to maybe think of a different word. But relationships and and in particular, romantic relationships can be quite triggering. And, and it's in those moments that, you know, without curiosity, it would be sort of like, okay, well, they're wrong. And I'm right, or, or I'm, you know, I'm wrong. And, and I could be sort of down on on myself, but rather than making any one right or wrong, I've used it as an opportunity to really explore and to really uncover. And so that's sort of been my, that's sort of been my path over the last 10 years or so, you know, with, as I said, like, a number of therapists. I'm actually really grateful that I saw my first therapist when I was in high school. And I'm really, I'm really grateful that my mom was open to it. And that she, by that point had been, you know, on her own journey and, and had been very open minded because this is a total generalization, but, you know, growing up in in a Mexican, sort of household mental health and, and therapy wasn't exactly, you know, common dinner, Table conversation. And so I'm really grateful that that was my first experience. And then since then, you know, into my 20s. And, and beyond, I've, I've been very open to exploring
Jessie Anne 20:13
thank you for sharing that. And, you know, to your point about, you know, not generalizing, you know, the cultural experience. But that really resonated with me as well. And, you know, I identify as a Puerto Rican woman. Both of my parents are Puerto Rican, and very similar therapy, mental health was not a topic we discussed, where it was a topic that we discussed, what I found very interesting was when I actually I started going to therapy in college, and when I brought it up to my mother, she took it personally, she thought it was going to be, oh, you're going to have somebody talk about how I didn't raise you, right, or, you know, I could have done things better. So it was interesting that talking about me going to therapy, for my own things I wanted to discover, there was a feeling of taking it personally as well. And so I'm just curious on the therapy, conversation, because I can also hear how impactful that was in your self discovery journey. Yeah, any other things that you think have, you know, bloomed from your therapy journey, and any other insights you would love to share? Around therapy and self love for yourself?
Yeah, I mean, you know, I mentioned that I'm so grateful to my mom, because she, you know, she did take me to therapy when I was in high school and, and beyond that, I'm, I'm super grateful, because she has been so open to hearing and trying to understand my experience. And, you know, these are, there are things that have come up throughout therapy, um, that, that have been really challenging. And, you know, it's not a judgment on her or, or my parents. But nonetheless, there are things that that have come up that the, you know, I've had to work through and so the fact that I've been able to have some, some tough conversations and, and have been able to share with her my experience, I think has been really, really helpful. And in supporting and in supporting my, my sort of self love and, and also supporting me, you know, being able to, to fully express myself and express needs and, and not sort of shy away from that, because because of fear. You know, I've also, I've also through through therapy, I've, I've had a couple of more like intensive journeys with, with psychedelics, and that has been so powerful, because it has, in a way that in traditional pop therapies is really great. And, and it's very supportive. These, you know, intensive experiences. Just really it's like, they expand, discovery, like, exponentially. In its, you know, it's hard to sort of describe in words, but, but there are so many parts of myself that have that have come to the surface that have sort of peeked around the corner to be like, Hey, I'm here. And it's beautiful, because, you know, maybe I knew those parts of me were there, and I was ignoring or suppressing or what have you. And now I can try to sort of build a relationship. And, and that's, that's something that for me is just really special. Hmm, I love that
Jessie Anne 24:39
and thank you so much for sharing that. Actually, remember when you shared this with me and your experience with taking your journey as I think a lot of people call it, you know, and it was it was actually I remember as talking about this because another chief member that I knew out of Los Angeles was doing something very similary and she was just reading about her experience. And after hearing both of you all share, because to your point, it's, it's, it's, it sounds very intense in a beautiful way, like you, you get so many deep insights, but it is, it's almost like grasping sand, like the harder you grasp, but the more it's actually running through your hands. And so what I was, like really present to you in both of your shares was there was a lot of subconscious work that came through this,
oh, 100% that, that really was my experience. And, you know, actually, as you just mentioned, sort of grasping at, at Sand. Part of part of this journey for me, I think, is also like, and I'm trying to offer myself some grace in that, you know, it is a it is a journey, it's not a destination. And you know, honestly, like, there, there are times where I'm just like, Okay, why is this still coming up? Or, you know, why, why can't I just be here. And I have to sort of remind myself and, and surround myself with loving people and people who, you know, love me and care for me and support me, because at it, I may never reach the destination. Like, and I'm sort of coming to terms with that, you know, like, I may never reach whatever that destination is. But at this point, I'm so far along in the journey, there's no going back. Like, and I could, you know, I guess I could make the decision of being like, I'm just gonna stay here. But it's one of those things. And I think maybe we've talked about this before, where it's like, you can't unsee it. Like, one sort of one sort of the the veil, if you will, has been lifted. Like, I can't not see it, I can't unsee it. And so have you ever heard that, that quote, I'm gonna butcher it, but it says something about it says something about, like the butterfly in the cocoon, and you know, how it, it could be more painful to stay sort of in the cocoon than to flourish. I'm totally butchering that, but that's sort of how I think of it, I guess, it's like, the journey even to self love is is not always flowery and butterflies and, and beautiful. It is raw, and it can be painful. And it can be dark. And, like, I can choose to stay there. Or I can just, you know, choose to continue to grow. That's so unlike that, yeah, like that. But it's, you know, truthfully, it's a choice that I have to make probably almost daily. Because sometimes, you know, yeah, like self love is so empowering. And it's so beautiful. But that's, that's just one side of it. You know, as you were speaking about duality earlier, like, it's not just that it's not just the beautiful, you know, empowering, compassion, love and sort of positive emotions, it's, it's all of the other stuff too. Totally.
Jessie Anne 29:04
When you said it, when you said it was something around, like, once, like the veil has been lifted, right? It's like, in once you've seen the thing, it's so hard to kind of go back and I think that's, you know, a part of my self love Journey was realizing my stuff, and then having to come to a choice with my staff. And what I mean by that, you know, you know, when I started actually, you know, getting coached by an executive coach, and my goodness, I remember the session that she handed me the victim versus at the at cars versus at a factory the victim versus at responsibility, and I was like, right, because you, you realize, right, it's like, Oh, my God, I'm in my own frickin way. I'm in my own Share, or end. You know, there could be another way I could be looking at this. And I think, you know, going back to kind of what you shared about, you know, your definition of self love with which was a lot of it was grounded on love and compassion. So even the quote unquote bits that you need to, you know, either relook at or rediscover, or you know, that things that you want to maybe evolve and change in yourself. And even, you know, you mentioned even relationships, right, having those hard conversations, having those tough conversations, you know, having confrontation to get to the other side of where you all can be at, comes with a lot of truth, like, and what I mean by truth, like just being vulnerable and real and speaking from the heart. But that takes a lot of courage. And that does take a lot of love and compassion.
Mm hmm. It, it does. And, and, you know, I, I try to remind myself, certainly, for myself, and for others, like, just to offer grace, you know, we're like, I don't know, it doesn't matter how educated you are, how you know, how well off your family was, or what, what sort of socio economic environment you grew up in, or what, like, we're all just having a human experience of some sort. And, like, it's easy for me to talk about it. But the harder part is to really live it. But you know, that's certainly my intention.
Jessie Anne 31:46
Totally, which I think it's, it's kind of, you know, lifting up the veil, seeing all the bits, it's that self discovery work. And I think now what you're kind of hinting at is the growth, you know, the actual, actual work that taking the action, there's so much, you know, don't get me wrong, there's so much benefit and so much richness that comes from the awareness. And, you know, for example, you know, having those sessions at therapy, realizing, you know, some, you know, past trauma that might have led to, you know, some habits and behaviors that you're either doing today, or you're tracking in your relationships, and, you know, you can get all of that quote, unquote, knowledge and insight and awareness. But then actually making those choices. And for example, like advocating for yourself, having that tough conversation, for example, with your mom, like, that all takes a level of growth. Because I think a lot of times, we can choose to say, kind of in our comfort zone of the way that things have been. But it seems like self love, the more that I'm discovering it is growing, and you know, being better, whatever that means to you. And I think you were mentioning earlier to like, even relationships, like growth within relationships, but there seems to be a lot of self growth, as well as then also growing in relationships. So I guess kind of my question around growth is just that. Yeah, I know, you already mentioned giving yourself love and compassion as you're on that growth journey. But I guess I'm present to like resiliency too because it's a lot of work. You know, so I never I actually, as I say that, remember, like a conversation that you're just like, you know, I think is right before you were going to Morocco, and you're just like, I just need a bit more self care. So love, just have some fun for a second versus, you know, constantly in the self discovery. So I guess, along with a way of me saying, I think a lot of times we can get caught up in the self discovery and overanalyze, and it's like analysis by paralysis, if you will, and then we don't actually do the work. Take the action. So yeah, how do you how do you balance that?
Um, yeah. It's, I mean, it's true. I, when I went to Morocco, I remember right before that, I was just like, I'm just, I'm so tired. Like, I just feel so tired of always trying to do some sort of work. And so I think it's, you know, it still is rooted in like compassion and grace and like, being able to say, like, I do need to fill my cup, right? Like I do need to do things that also bring me a lot of joy and adventure and travel is something that I'm just, I'm so connected to and sort of inspired by And so, being able to, to offer that to myself, like just as, you know, just as I'm offering myself, the space to to excel Boren discover, like, I can also still explore and discover and learn about myself. But while like, having fun and traveling and, and taking care of myself and you know, exercise, I mean, it's, it's not just about going on trips, it's like, how, how do I? How do I make sure that I'm taking care of myself physically, emotionally, spiritually, and you're eating the foods that I want to eat, making sure I see. Something I've I've come to realize is like I'm really sourced by by spending time with friends. And so making sure that I see a friend at least, you know, once once a week where we go to dinner and just like talk they're finding and doing the things that that really source me.
Jessie Anne 35:54
Absolutely. And as you were just sharing all of that, would you consider all of those facets that you just share, like spending time with your friends, eating, you know, eating the things that source you and fill you? You know, taking the time that you need for yourself being in a sense of wonder going on vacation? Because you love adventure? Would you consider that like self care? Or what are what would you consider that?
Yeah, I mean, I really do think it is self care, it's, it's doing all the things that source me, and that is me taking care of myself. Right. Like, it's, it's me making sure that I'm making sure that I am doing the things and I'm spending time with the people that that I really want to spend time with, and and then I may be doing a little less of the things that that I don't always want to do. And that's that's a balance, like I think we all have, sometimes have to do things that maybe wouldn't necessarily be on the top of our list if it were up to us.
But yeah, I think it's I think it is all self care. It's all self love. Because it's it's necessary, I think, to your point about like the three buckets, you know, the self care really
is. And it's it's really important, and it's something that sort of as a society is maybe undervalued, or at least not really talked about, in a way. It's either like, oh, yeah, it's either like, you know, you're you're spending the day at the spa. And and, and doing things that are like, quote unquote, frivolous? It doesn't necessarily have to mean Yes, I love Chick fil A Yes. And it doesn't necessarily have to be that right? Totally
Jessie Anne 38:01
1,000% I think there's a lot of times the way that pop culture or media or even Instagram sometimes betray self care is just that, right? It's like, oh, you know, treat yourself, you know, get your nails done and go to the spa, right? Go on a shopping spree and like, hey, all beautiful things, right. And it's way deeper than that. And I you know, one of the things that I actually loved about one of the training tools that we learned in our coaching program was like this project designed from the future. And when big like aha moment for me was like, through that project design, you're supposed to, like, give yourself quote, unquote, rewards for like, everything that you've done. And I was like, I don't reward myself, for any quote, unquote, little medium, and even sometimes large bits of my life. Like, the reward for me is the or used to be, and this is definitely something that I'm changing every day is, you know, some kind of accomplishment and something that I deem big enough, and even then sometimes I'm not even truly rewarding myself, or it's like a vacation, but it's like, well, I should be rewarding myself every day. And that might be you know, reading a book, you know, that might be putting my phone away for an hour, you know, it might be taking a nap during the work week in the middle of the day. Like there's so many things that are truly accessible to us in terms of self care, but I know totally resonate with what you said. I think a lot of times there's a very limited view of what self care can look like.
Yeah, well and I love that you're like, you know, going through that. That experience like made you aware of just how you're not sort of celebrating the progress and I think for me, that's something that certainly in the last few months has been like sort of Top of Mind is I, for the longest time have have sort of viewed it as, as the destination as reaching the goal. As you know, once once I'm x, y and z, then then I can I can celebrate. Or I can be proud of myself, but like, That's bullshit. Like, I can celebrate the progress, right? I again, I may never get to the destination, whatever that is. But I can celebrate the progress and something that I've been doing. I don't know, maybe the last month or so, is, I have a reminder for myself on Fridays. Just to like, think about and celebrate my, my accomplishment, like name one thing that I accomplished that I'm like, proud of. Yeah, you know, and it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be this major milestone, it could be, you know, as as simple as, like, I meditated 10 minutes every day. Yeah, cool. Um, you know, and I can celebrate that. It doesn't have to be. I remember seeing a quote, once it said, like progress, not perfection. And, and it really just resonates like it is progress there. This idea of perfection or of yeah, this idea of perfection is just, you know, really misguided, in my view,
Jessie Anne 41:31
I totally agree with you. And I feel like perfection, in a way disrupts your self love Journey, because the whole point of self love is loving all bits of you. And I think, you know, that really resonated with me as a recovering perfectionist. It comes, like if I'm being completely honest, right, it comes from a deep lack of self worth, that comes from, you know, a lack of self love and, and for me, it was, you know, you tell me how great I am, you know, you show me that I'm worthy of this job, this position, this relationship, this moment, this this place, you know, the seat at the table, it was always looking for external validation and then having to then quote unquote, be in that box for that person, that moment, that thing, quote, unquote, in quotes, perfect, so that I can then feel that I'm worthy enough and not realizing the self worth comes from Me and Me validating and appreciating all the bits of me. And one of the biggest breakthroughs for me was to show up messy, I don't like to show up messy and what I mean by that emotional array, having a bad day, not having all the answers not being on top of my game, but like, Wow, what a standard I was holding myself to, and I'll be honest, how frickin you know, and almost burnt out in my 20s from corporate America, because I was just going, going going and keeping myself in this box. So I love Yeah, I love that you uplifted that.
Something that something that that came up for me earlier this year. One day, actually, in our, in our program, but But then as a follow up, and one of my therapy sessions was just this idea that, like, my presence is enough. And I was like, mind blown. I just got chills. Like, yeah, literally. Think, yeah, it's like, oh, really, I'm in it is just something that I don't think we as a society embrace or, or certainly certainly are open to sort of talking about like, we, we and I and, you know, have have always been so sort of future focused, goal oriented, like, I have to be doing doing doing, you know, similarly to what you were sharing, like, yeah, if if I get really good grades, or if I behave really well or, you know, whatever, since since childhood, like that's how I that's how I know that I'm loved and valued. And, and now actually, like, just my presence is enough, being messy being being emotional being like all of it, is that that's enough that in itself shows that I that I'm a value and worthy. And, you know, if it's not something that like people talk about and it's a realization that you know, not in a not in a judgmental way but like I just wish I I wish I had realized it sooner
Jessie Anne 45:08
oh absolutely absolutely and you know