In part II of this intimate conversation, Vanessa and I discuss:
Sending lots of love & gratitude,
Jessie Anne Zayas
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Jessie Anne 0:00
One thing that you're mentioning was like the doing right? And like, oh, like I said, I got, like chills when you're like, my presence is a gift, you know, my presence is enough period, right? And, you know, the Ontological Coaching that we've learned, you know, it was so important for us to be in, and it really, you know, took all that time to really absorb it, because it was that whole shift of your being versus you're doing. Right, and that you don't have to do anything, just your being is enough. Your essence, who you are, just who you are without the labels without the doing without the accomplishments. To your point, all the bits of you is enough. Yeah, 100% It's beautiful. It's I don't know, I was gonna say scary, because they think it is. It's like raw, it's bad. But it's just so important. And I'm really glad that it's something that's, that's in my, in my mind, right. That's, that's in my heart now, because am I going to live it every single day? Like, I don't, I don't necessarily want to put that kind of pressure on myself. But but, you know, like, I'm aware of it now. And and that's, that's just, I think, the most important piece like, knowing now that yeah, my, my, my presence is enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a, it's such a heavy one, in my opinion, and it's in, you know, I think, going back to the grace and love and compassion, it's, you know, we grew up in a society where there's so much emphasis on what you do, like, literally, like, you go to a dinner party, hey, what do you do? You know, and first question. And, you know, I think in a beautiful way, though, I think we're all realizing and shifting, and just almost expanding our view of who we are and what we do, and how we're being in this world. And, you know, I, I can't remember, there was like this, there's this movie, and, you know, this, this daughter, of course, grows up to be this, you know, amazing woman, and she's sharing, you know, listen, the only thing that my, my father told me to be in this world was kind, and that's all I want to be is a kind person, you know, regardless of what I'm doing, or what space I'm taking, and I think there was such such power and that for me, because that's all I want to be I just want to be a loving kind person. And but that starts with being that self, which was the big aha moment for me.
Yeah. Yeah, no, that's so beautiful. Because it's, it's true, like, we I think it's true, we can properly be that way with others, if we don't exercise and sort of practice it with ourselves. Whether it be you know, compassion, or love or kindness, nurturing like it. You know, it all starts within I think, hopefully, it has to start from Yeah,
Jessie Anne 3:41
absolutely. And I think that a beautiful way you mentioned, like, relationships sometimes can be like, for example, like a mirror to us, right? Like being in you know, sometimes when you're just solo by yourself, and then, you know, then you're in a loving relationship, and you see yourself in different facets and dimensions. So, but to your point there, it's like the growth, the catalyst, the the ongoing work has to come from you and almost shine outwardly to, for you to almost see it back to yourself, if that makes sense.
Oh, 100% I mean, I just had this conversation the other day, that like, the best thing that I can do for my relationships, romantic or otherwise, is continue to work on myself. Like, that is I think, truly the one thing that I can do in you know, in a real way, that will positively contribute to my relationships. And, and that's, and that starts with, you know, really strengthening my relationship to myself. Totally.
Jessie Anne 4:51
And, yeah, I think sometimes the trap that people can get into and in relationships, it's like, Oh, I'm not whole and I I need that other person to fill that bit of me or for me to feel that emotion me and not saying that we can't be all things at once but not finding ourselves in the other. Yeah, you know,
that's actually like, even I've, I've sort of struggled with, like my other half, you know, phrase. Because because I think it's bullshit. Yeah. Like, even even before sort of this, this journey in that phrase is, is founded in, you know, incompleteness. And. And look, I'm definitely no relationship expert, by any means. But starting from that place, I think, is really challenging on relationships, like, coming from a place of, of income, you know, starting from a place of incompleteness like I need to find my other half is,
Jessie Anne 6:14
just makes me it's almost like the similar concept of like, when I get that raise, when I get that promotion, when I finally, when I live in that city, I'll finally be happy when I find that other person, right, my other half, I will finally be happy. And it's, it's, you know, I think through our experience, it's a tale. It's not true, you know, it's, it's the present moment. And it's just just that fully embracing who you are at that moment for that day. And just celebrating that and knowing that you are whole at every moment.
Mm hmm. 100% even even in the moments when, when maybe it doesn't feel
Jessie Anne 6:58
totally Well, I feel like that's like growing the container. And I think that's what I'm been really present to lately is like, as much as I've grown on this journey, what I'm present to now is that I need to start growing my capacity for self love. It's like almost like, when I started the self love Journey, my capacity was like a teacup. And then I filled that tea cup, and then I was like, oh, okay, well, I can get into like a gallon. And then I filled that gallon. And, you know, now I'm getting to a point where, you know, I've filled myself up so much. And now I'm growing capacity to that next thing, which kind of goes back to the growth because there is no destination, you're just constantly growing capacity, I think for holding more love holding more compassion, holding more grace for an example.
Mm hmm. I love that. I really love that. Because it's it also just, it it's like infinite. You know, there's just this like expansiveness this yeah, there's just this expansive feeling of like, you know, the, I don't know what comes to mind is like the world is my oyster. And, and, and like, I can expand and create and have, you know, deep relationships with with with loved ones and and just continue to to grow and I don't know it just it feels so thank
Jessie Anne 8:42
you and I have similar feelings, right? It almost feels so freeing in a way when you stop looking at it as a destination and it's just no I'm just growing I'm growing capacity. I'm just Yeah. Living life honestly. Right taking it in every day. One thing I want to kind of Yeah, you know, what I've been a little bit struggling about to in self love journey. And I don't know if you would agree with this Vanessa, but I don't feel that I put this I don't feel like sometimes we're transparent or open to all the things that we do for self love and just even be more specific about this. Talking about like our fun financial and even time commitment with self love and like you for example, you mentioned you know, hey, you know, I saw I went to my first therapist appointment when I was in high school and a lot of people don't even you know, I look at it making an investment in yourself. You know, going to therapy is an investment in yourself, your well being your mental health, your livelihood, your, your relationships, like all of the things and even you know, in full transparency when I finally hired my own coach, there was a moment where it's like, oh, I can't spend that money for myself and my husband looked at me he's like, What are you talking about, when's the last thing you spent money on just for you, and for your own well being your own mental health, and a lot of times, especially in this consumerism world that we live in, it's like, I have to, quote unquote, have something in my hand or show proof of like, who what I actually spent that money on. So things like, literally, and coaching and you know, all the things I even talked about self care, like, even taking a vacation a day off all of these things. We don't really like talk about it, and we don't, I don't feel at least like we don't openly share, like, yeah, I spent X amount of dollars a year on my self love, you know, like, That's how important means to me. You know, I intentionally take a week off every single month, because that's what how important my self care and time and relaxation is. So would you be open and sharing just just that, like how has, you know, your even your financial commitment or your investment in self love? grown through the years? And just any thoughts you have around that and sharing that?
Yeah, I mean, certainly like, and I'm actually just thinking about, I just started working with a personal trainer twice a week. And with a nutritional, like, coach, and so that, you know, those are those are expensive, coupled with my therapy, and, you know, so in my coach and people behind the
show, yes, it's a very, like, independent journey. Like, as a whole things, it takes a village, right, it takes a village to live in this world.
Ya know, for sure. So and, and honestly, like, when I first worked with, with, with a leadership coach, executive coach, I like therapy therapy, because it's, it's been in my life and, and sort of in, in my world for so long. That is a little bit different for me that, that doesn't feel that doesn't feel like frivolous is is, is the word that comes to mind like that, that is really important. But like, the coach and, and personal trainer, all of that? I don't know. I don't think I would have, I would have always just thought of it as like, that's something that like, you know, really wealthy people do that, like celebrities do. But, but no, like, I'm working with a trainer, I'm, you know, I'm working with my, my executive coach, I am. I have a nutritional coach, I will, you know, a couple of times a month, do like the order that prepared meals. So that I know that I'm still eating well, and, and, you know, healthy and I'm trying to, to take care of myself and yeah, yeah. I until, until you brought it up, I sort of thought about all of the people that I'm working with. But no, like, it's so important. And it's, it's what, it's what supports. It's what supports me physically and, and, and mentally and emotionally. And I think about Yeah, I mean, I'm going to be working with a physical therapist soon, because because I have so many things going on.
Jessie Anne 13:54
For me writing all these America eyes. will thank you so much for like, yeah, no, thank you so much for sharing. Like, to your point, I don't think sometimes we're so even open, going back to the self love and you know, again, you know, looking at this a little bit from a narrow view of my point of view, I was almost like scared in a way to share how much support I was getting and receiving because it's like, no, I should be able to do it myself. And, you know, this, this sense of like, you know, like you're, again, this isn't the right word, but this was the feeling I was experiencing, like I'm weak or less than or not whole, if I need, quote unquote, need all these people around me versus shifting my context to say, I love myself so much that I am so willing to invest in my mental health, my physical health, my emotional health, my sense of wonder time abundance, because even like you mentioned meal prepping like I used to, you know, beat myself up with, you know, delivery and it's like, well, I just saved my cell phone. trip to the grocery store. And don't get me wrong. I love going to the grocery store and love picking out fresh fruits and vegetables. But like even time abundance is something that I forget that, you know, we're also creating in our lives by soliciting help and support.
Oh, 100% 100% I mean, yeah, like I think about, you know, I have someone who helps, who helps clean my apartment. And to some, it's like, you can't clean your own apartment, like, yeah, I can, like, I am physically able to do it. 100% But I have somebody who comes in helps. And in the meantime, I can do something else, you know, and that is like, important to me. Because I'm not spending those, you know, two or three hours or what, whatever it is, you know, cleaning, I'm able to do something else that I really enjoy or run errands, whatever it is, like you know, there's there's no shame in asking for support, which is not something that I would have said,
Jessie Anne 16:12
totally right. There's five years. One thing I was as you were sharing that and you know, something I just have to give you the most credit for you made me now a superfan and I hope I don't butcher her name. Esther Perel. Ah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And we actually had of we actually had her in the chief clubhouse. I want to say about a week ago, we both listened into her conversation. And, you know, one thing I've been actually I purposely haven't asked you this, because to get your thoughts on this podcast. Do you remember where she was probing the cheap group? And she goes, How many of you all give your best self to your work during the day, and then bring back the scraps when you get home? And I was my jaw was on the floor when I was seeing the Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. In the chat. How was your experience?
Yeah. Yeah. Well, first of all, I absolutely love her. And if, if you or anyone listening has not heard her TED talks, and she has a book called meeting in captivity, she has a podcast as well, which, I'll be honest, I haven't listened to a ton, but she's just fantastic. And, and it's true. And I think that's one of also just like, the hard things about relationships and scratch that it's not a hard thing about relationship. It's, it's it's sort of being in relationship and the things that come up, right, like, yeah, so many of us are taught to be super friendly to like, the store clerk or, you know, the waiter at a restaurant, which rightly so. And we're total assholes to our part. Yeah. Like, you know, the person at the store. It we're like, best friends with and then our partner turns the AC on a little too high. And it's like, why did you do that? It's like, the worst thing in the world. We can be so harsh. And generalization, or I'll speak for myself. You know, there are times where I can be so harsh with those closest to me. And it's like, why, like, they're my biggest cheerleaders. But it's, you know, it's a shift. And so yeah, not giving 100% giving all of all of me at work and then coming home and and being so exhausted, that I can't connect up
Jessie Anne 19:04
totally. And oh, my goodness, as you were sharing with relationships. This literally happened to me this week. Like also, another thing we're doing together now is this Positive Intelligence cohort. And
girl, you can't get rid of me we're deep
Jessie Anne 19:23
in the transformational work together. And I've been enjoying it I've actually recruited my husband to dip his toes in it every day. And we were having this like, philosophical conversation, if I'm being honest of like, what was it it was something into into the terms of Yeah, you know, our, you know, kind of shifting away from this right and wrong and and kind of context and he was starting to have a conversation about you know, but like, you know, scruples and morality and you know, things in terms of right and wrong and and I notice myself getting very like what's the right word like, like almost like tense with him like kind of like, tough on him having this conversation. And and when we were having this conversation, I can tell by his body language that my body language is starting to get a little bit more like, like intense I guess you could say that I go I kind of went well hey, I can tell you're starting to close off and explaining this like what what's going on here? Because now right being more curious being more open like hey, what's going on here he goes, Well, I feel like I'm, I'm going to say the wrong thing now. And like I can tell by your body language that you're now you're really intensely listening to me. And as he was reflecting that this like aha moment was somebody that I love so much. And I would say my husband's like, literally top top top on the list of like people like, Oh, my God, like, has my whole heart. Why am I so tough on him? Oh, my God, because that's how tough I am on myself. Like I was almost projecting how like, intense I get with my own beliefs and my own thoughts and the way that I'm synthesizing information. I always I like, to your point about like marriage and relationships. I was like, Oh, my God, the people that I love the most sometimes get the most harsh treatment for me, because that's also the relationship I have with myself. Oh, my God. And then it was like, blowing up, right? versus, you know, a stranger on the street. Oh, my God, I'm saying thank you. And excuse me, I'm so delicate with them. And then I'm like, so hard on like, you know, my husband, right? And then it was like this moment of like, Oh, my God, because you're hard on yourself?
No, it's so it's so? I mean, that's my experience as well. Like, I will venture to say that that's, we're not alone. But, but that's certainly my experience as well, is that like, yeah, I can be I can be really critical to those closest to me. And, and it's because I have that same tendency with myself. And, and that, you know, that that judge, that judge in me is, you know, it's a really well developed muscle. And, and I judge myself very harshly. So, you know, as, as you were mentioning the PQ Reps and stuff like, yeah, it's a matter of it's a matter of just creating space for awareness. Like, am I going to stop tomorrow? Yeah, I wish I could tell you I am, but probably not. So how can I just create the space for awareness? And actually, so it's really interesting. I, a friend texted me yesterday. And so this is like, an acquaintance, I should say. This is an acquaintance that I knew, I don't know, 12 years ago. We used to hang out. But like, we were never really that close. He used to throw parties. He was like a big a big like, promoter and in sort of the gay scene in New York for a very long time. And and so I sort of met him in that, that scene. And he texted earlier this year. And it was really random. I, you know, I hadn't talked to him since actually, since 2013. So that's how long ago and yesterday, he texted and was like, you know, I like saw some photos of us. And he was saying all these things. And he's like, you know, you're just still remarkable and, and literally, in my mind, I'm like, wow, I have the wrong phone number. And I'm like, wait, like, yeah, I am remarkable. Like, you know, I stopped myself. I'm like, Yeah, I am remarkable. But some of the things you say, I think he has the wrong phone. Both could be true. You know, I don't Yeah, unclear if he knows who he's actually texting, because we were never actually that close. But it was very sweet nonetheless. And he's like, you know, you're just so amazing, remarkable woman. Like Yeah. Right, Vanessa,
Jessie Anne 24:50
part of the growth, right, receiving and actually receiving, I even like receiving compliments. I don't know about you, but that was one of the toughest things. For me too well, and continues to be one of the hardest things for me to receive. Is somebody giving me compliments? Or sharing or acknowledging who I am to them? I'm almost like, no, no, no, like, anybody. Right? And so yeah. How does that resonate with you in terms of like receiving compliments and receiving acknowledgement? And just even that experience of, you know, being shared with some of these kind words about you?
Yeah. I mean, you know, it's, it's an interesting relationship for me, because because I think that for a very long time, I thought validation. Yeah, similar to what you were saying earlier, like, I thought, validation externally. And so the compliments for me, I would receive them because of that was confirming that I was lovable, if you will. And so now, it's like, Yes, I love to receive compliments. Now, it's like the deeper acknowledgement of like, who I am, as who I am to people, you know, in a beautiful way, is something that, like, I'm now better able to internalize. Because there were, I don't want to say there was like, superficial compliments. But you know, there been things that I've been told all of my life, which, which I think I, I attached to her I was attracted to, because of that's, that's what gave me my self worth. And so now, it's like, not seeking it. But actually, I actually being able to internalize the acknowledgement and, and to be able to see it myself. You know, I don't know that for the longest time, I could see some of the qualities that people will see and me. And now I can, and now I can, like really lean into it. But so it's, it's the dynamic between, like, compliments and acknowledgement is is also something that I've, I've really been like, I don't know, I guess maybe experimenting with or more learning from because, yeah, because now now I now I want it not to, not so much to, to confirm that I'm worthy. But it's like, let me say that differently. It's not because that is how I know I'm worthy. It's because that now i i can i can internalize it and and know that I am worthy.
Jessie Anne 28:18
And you said it so beautifully. It's like an also seeing it in yourself, like when somebody reflects you. Because that's all they're doing is just reflecting an app a facet of you, you know, and, you know, one of the beautiful things I love about our coaching is that we acknowledge our clients at the end and it has nothing to do with her doing it's their being and just acknowledging the human spirit that they are. And what I found so powerful in the shifts in working with clients is even in myself. It's exactly what you just said is when somebody actually says that and share that beautiful reflection you actually seeing it in yourself too. And not to your point not for validation and going oh yeah. Okay, now I know really that thing. It's just truly to your point, just almost like internalizing it, sensing it soaking it up and be like yeah, I am that. I am powerful. I am a kind I am you know, full of heart I am compassionate, you know, I am all these things and it's just so beautiful to to also hear somebody reflect something that I already know that I am.
Know. Exactly, exactly. And and it is really it is really special. And it's been for me something that like yeah, it's something that I'm, I'm more open to and and the intention behind sort of the openness is, is different
Jessie Anne 29:50
kind of speaking a little bit from you know, that you and I both identify as also Latina women and we And the reason I'm bringing this up, because we've kind of talked about it a little bit. And I think it's, you know, I think it's something worth sharing, because I think a lot of times when, again, this might not again, we're not, you know, saying this as a generalization to the, you know, the Latin community. What I'm trying to share here is, I think a lot of times self love outside of any community, any culture, sometimes can have a perception of being selfish. And so going back to the culture bit, and going back to my experience, you know, growing up in a Puerto Rican household where my mom would even literally say, you know, it's not about you, it's about family, it's about all of us. And there was a very much a very, almost self sacrifice equals love context. Yeah, how I are totally gonna do a part two, and also do ourselves love Latinos workshop. I, the reason I'm opening this up is because I think a lot again, a lot of times, we were like, okay, self love can be deemed as selfish. And I think sometimes, again, in my cultural experience, you know, especially when I started creating boundaries, oh my god, right, there was this. Right? So my, yeah, but so like, what has been your experience in terms of self love, quote, unquote, being selfish, or this whole, like, self sacrifice equals love and your life? And how that's how that's transpired?
Yeah, I mean, I think that my experience was, was similar to yours. You know, self love, truly is a term that, that I became familiar with, as, as an adult. It was not ever anything that that was sort of brought up in my childhood, or in my family, or with friends, or there was this idea. And, um, you know, I wouldn't say that it was like, explicit at home, you know, my, my mom, or my parents weren't explicitly like, you have to, you have to sacrifice yourself for for others, it wasn't necessarily that direct. However, you know, in family, the dynamic the cultural dynamics. In family were very present. You know, the, the women really catered to the men, and no, like, it's interesting, because I, I didn't see a ton of that in my home, necessarily. But, you know, it's like having to take care of my siblings or having to having to do things, not because I wanted to, but because it was sort of my responsibility as, as, as the oldest, you know, the eldest sibling, it was my responsibility. And this sort of opens a whole nother can of worms, but it's like, you know, my, my parents had me when they were very young. And I, you know, I do realize that this is also part of how I identify a part of my identity. My, my mom was 16, when she had me. So, she was a child, and, like, love her. She's amazing. And she was a child when she had me and so there's zero chance, or close to zero, that she was emotionally mature enough to have a daughter, right? And so just out of the sheer just out of the environment, like I've always been very independent, and I've always, you know, really taking care of myself in not just self love way necessarily, but in like, the survival way. Which is different. And, you know, I remember having a conversation with my mom, I don't know 10 years ago or something where she's, you know, she commented, and she commented, from a place of like, pride, like, you were just always so good. You were so independent. Like Yeah, cuz What choice did I have? And so, you know, from that angle, it was like, there was no, there wasn't really self, there wasn't really talk of self love, it was for me a matter of like, yeah, I have to, I have to make sure I can put myself together and get myself ready for school, I have to make sure that, you know, I'm sort of watching out for my siblings, I have to make sure that that I behave really well and that I don't, you know, that they get really good grades, and that I sort of do things that are sort of expected of me. Because, I mean, because it was survival. And, and I you know, it's, it's not to say that like my childhood. Like, we won't get into it. But, uh, you know, it's not to say that, like, I had this really terrible childhood or upbringing. I don't want to sort of give that impression. But
Jessie Anne 36:12
yeah, yeah. But it's complicated. You know, what a read. And that's what I'm also hearing too, it's, you know, so much, ah, so much of our childhood and, you know, the experiences that we go through, yes, they've made us the people that we are today. And, you know, read resiliency, and, you know, being independent, for example, can be really great qualities, and the way that we learned it might have not been the best path to learn those qualities. But I think it goes back to and just how you so gracefully started this conversation, it's like, always looking at things with such grace and compassion and understanding and curiosity. Because even as you most beautifully said, like, you're you know, your mom was 16 years old, you know, so there's, I also hear there's a lot of compassion in that space. And also, knowing your true experience and the impact that also made in your life, and then how you have to hold space for your own self love. Because that's nothing that was really nurtured or grown, you know, from day one, living as Vanessa as an example, know,
for sure, and, you know, this. This, I know, I'm talking a lot about my mom, and she's, she's clearly had, you know, she's played such a large role, and it's such an important role in my life, um, you know, we had this conversation a few months ago, about, like, selfish and what is selfish and taking care of, and, and, you know, I've, I've been the one to say to her, like, it is not selfish for me to take care of myself, it is not selfish for me to express my needs, it is not selfish for me to have to have boundaries and express them. Like, it is the opposite of selfish and, you know, as I shared earlier, like, I'm so grateful that she's very open to having these conversations. Because he or she is able to sort of see it from, she's able to take a step back, and, like, understand, and I think, I think appreciate that, like, you know, I'm asserting myself in certain ways now, because because I do need to, to take care of myself and practice self love and, and self care, in whatever that means. And for us, in particular, you know, our conversation was like, We are two grown women now. Like, what is our relationship look like now? Right? Like, yes, she's my mother. But I don't need my mom in the same way that I did before. Right. Like, I don't need her to, for all of my basic needs to be met, like I we can now design our relationship in a very intentional way. Like, now as you know, a 30 Something woman like, what do I need in a mother? And, and we're both adults. We're both grown women. So what does that look like? Which is so which is so cool, I think to be able to take a step back and be like, okay, and Um, we're literally grown adults now. And you know, she's not that much older than me. Turns out, she had me at 16. Right? So we're like, she's not that much older than me. So how can What does our friendship look like? What is our relationship look like? Yes, will always be mother daughter, of course, but our relationship Oh, boy, you're so right.
Jessie Anne 40:24
And I think that's one of the biggest things as we're kind of, you know, growing ourselves in this world is like, we look at our parents on such a pedestal, you know, you know, in our teens, and you know, in our early 20s, and then you get to this, like, backcrossing point of realizing, Oh, my goodness, my parents were just babies, when they had me. They didn't know any, you know, quote, unquote, better, they were still navigating life. To this day, still, as we all know, right? Like, you know, you're 89 years old, and you're reflecting, you know, even my grandparents, right, reflecting like, they're still on their journey of learning and discovery, it never ends. So I, I guess what I am reflecting that. And what I want to point out is, again, you yourself having such a strong foundation in your self love in your self discovery in your self growth in your self care, was almost able to create the space and also really look at a relationship that a lot of us don't really look at, we we kind of keep it in this, you know, this certain, you know, gear, if you will, like only keeping it in first gear versus like, No, we've been on first gear for 20 freakin years, it's time to take this relationship to a different to a different level to a different, you know, into your point in a way that feels aligned with you and her as well.
Yeah, no, absolutely. And, and, and it really is so cool. You know, it's, it's really so cool. I mean, we talked about like, yeah, so let's make sure we plan like one trip together every year. Because, you know, maybe it's like a weekend trip or whatever. But like, how how do we reconnect as? Yes, his mother, Mother Daughter, but how do we reconnect us? As women and as friends? And
Jessie Anne 42:13
I love that? I absolutely.
Jessie Anne 42:14
And what is that, like?
Jessie Anne 42:16
Oh, which I feel like, in a beautiful way leads me to my final last question.
Jessie Anne 42:22
All this talk about self
Jessie Anne 42:23
love, and I'm just like, so curious. If you can envision a world where everybody's self love tank is full. And we're all thriving in this beautiful self love, ritual journey. Discovery? What kind of world do you think that would look like?
I mean, look like I think there would still I think there'd be a lot of a lot of love a lot of growth, a lot of openness, like compassion and grace. You know, I think that there still would be some pain but it would maybe be in it would maybe show up in different ways. There you know, having empathy and compassion and being able to, to truly if not, if not understand have a genuine attempt at understanding the other and from there like they're just like infinite possibilities of what could happen you know, there's just so much potential for I don't know it's not like world peace but like, actually, you know, and look like there's there's a lot that goes on in the world that's like truly traumatic and and there are experiences that people have that are, you know, beyond my imagination. And yet if I can extend some compassion and empathy I'm you know, we we could create like, just this beautiful connection.
Jessie Anne 44:21
Well, Vanessa, I just can't thank you enough for your time your your generosity in this conversation, your your vulnerability, your heart. And really just I hope, you know, just somebody that I continue to look up to in the self love journey, but also in this journey of life. You You've so gracefully been so giving in your self love journey, and I just can't thank you enough because you have definitely flourished mine. So I just want to thank you again for that.
Well, thank you for thank you for your friendship and thank you for being on being part of my my path and my journey over the last year, because your love and support has really been you know, really been instrumental in my continued growth. So I thank you for that. And thank you for asking me to join your podcast. It's been such an honor to to be able to have this conversation and so much well, I
don't think this will be the last time but but again, thank you, thank you and close
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