Confessions of a Recruiter
The show is hosted by Blake Thompson and Declan Kluver who respectively own Vendito Consulting and Blended Employment. Both have been in Sales & Marketing Recruitment for over 5 years. The podcast is about opening the door to the recruitment world and creating a community of recruiters who can share funny stories, educate and have honest conversations about the industry and their experience. All episodes are powered by xrecruiter.
Confessions of a Recruiter
Building xrecruiter: The Inside Story | Confessions of a Recruiter #114
Ever wonder what happens behind closed doors when recruitment entrepreneurs hit rock bottom? This episode pulls back the curtain on the raw, unfiltered journey Blake and Declan took from cold-calling consultants to the founders of a nationwide recruitment community.
The brutally honest conversation reveals pivotal moments that shaped their path—like the chance meeting in a park where Declan first learned about recruitment after seeing Blake's Mercedes, or Blake's first day making random cold calls without training simply because everyone else was busy on the phone. These authentic stories illuminate how two regular guys built something extraordinary through sheer determination.
Their transparency extends to truly harrowing business crises—predatory vendors demanding triple fees with four days' notice, critically ill children at home, and a devastating $300,000 loss when a client went insolvent—all happening simultaneously. Yet it's precisely these moments that revealed their superpower: community. When traditional businesses would have collapsed, their partners rallied together to help solve problems collectively.
Whether you're contemplating starting your own recruitment business or simply fascinated by entrepreneurial journeys, this conversation offers profound insights about the true measures of success. As Blake notes, "I think the longer I'm in business, the more I realize it's the journey that matters, not the destination." But perhaps Declan delivers the most actionable insight: "Osmosis. You're 15 or 30% better when you're around people."
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· Our Website is: xrecruiter.io
Welcome back to another episode of Confessions of a Recruiter. This is the most raw, vulnerable and honest conversation me and Blake have ever had together. We talk about how we got into recruitment, how we built our little agencies and then how we scaled XRecruiter. There's something in it for everyone. Hope you enjoy. Welcome back to another episode of Confessions of a Recruiter, and this is going to be a trip down memory lane, BT. Absolutely, we're going back.
Speaker 1:One of our best performing episodes was that little one where we were hunched over. It was our first ever episode, but I think you know a lot's happened in the last two and a half years, so I think it's sometimes even we can forget where we've come from, what we've done, with the rate in which everything's happening these days. So I thought it'd be good just to get you and I in a room and chat about what life was like before recruitment, how we got into recruitment and how we went from being consultants to small business owners to now doing what we do with XRecruiter and helping many recruiters do the same thing. What do you reckon?
Speaker 2:Absolutely Sounds like a good idea. Take it away, dec. Tell me about the history. You always go straight to me. Yeah, it's because I like to just follow the energy mate and you always set the good energy.
Speaker 1:All right, mate. So going back, I think the first part is that memorable afternoon in the park where I first found out what recruitment is. I'm kicking the ball with Sean Stewart. All of a sudden this a or c series mercedes rocks up.
Speaker 2:I think it was like a little, um, like a little c200 something like that yeah, it's just I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's the coolest car I'd ever seen at a 23 year old, but um you get out of the car and I'm like, what's this guy doing with josh? How does how are 23 year olds rolling around in a mercedes? I'd never seen that before. And um, and he's a kick in the footy and I'm like, what are you doing? I mean I don't think we'd seen each other in a couple of years. And you're like, yeah, we're in recruitment. I'm like, what's recruitment? You're like I don't know, we find people jobs, and that was my first introduction to ever hear about the industry.
Speaker 2:So, and then from there, I think I was in the seat maybe four weeks later. Yeah, I think so. So we were kicking the footy down in Wilston, wilston Park, new Farm Park. I don't think it was New Farm Park, I think it was Wilston, wasn't it? New Farm, are you sure? Yeah, okay, well, that's to be debated, and yeah, and then at Rock, I was already working in recruitment. I'd only been there what 12 months.
Speaker 1:Yes, less, yeah, six, seven months.
Speaker 2:Yep, and we were looking for more recruiters. You know, as you do when you're running a small agency. Our boss at the time was like hey, do you guys know anyone? We need more people in blah blah blah and I just fired out a bunch of random.
Speaker 1:How many messages did you send out?
Speaker 2:Oh, maybe, I don't know, maybe five, five or 10. Oh so pretty good strike rate yeah.
Speaker 1:You're going to get two, yeah yeah and then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, where were you working at the time? Car sales at.
Speaker 1:Norris Motor Group.
Speaker 2:What were you selling Hyundai's Hyundai?
Speaker 1:i30s Santa.
Speaker 2:Fe's.
Speaker 1:Nice, and what attracted you to recruitment to begin with? Oh, how did a 23 year old have a Mercedes? That was the most curious thing to me. And then it just made sense. I just sort of understood that this sounds good, the boys are doing it, so if they're doing it, it's better than doing what I'm doing and selling cars. At the time I think it was a 10 grand pay rise straight away. So I was like beauty, I went from 37K to 46K just from getting into recruitment. So I'm like I've got nothing to lose. I don't have to work Saturdays and I don't have to be on the yard till six o'clock every night, and so I was like this is sweet.
Speaker 2:Love that and then you got into recruitment. How was your first initiation into recruitment? Tell us about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the first week was ultra intense, even the interview process. Like. I didn't even understand what I was. I had to do a 90 day action plan. I think. I just looked up statistics. How many placements the average recruiter makes is two. And then everything else didn't really matter. That I wrote down. But I put all of that in a plan and and and got the job. I said, look, I'm only going to be here for six months. I'm probably going to join the Navy, so I'll do what I can while I'm here. And he's like okay, mate, like thanks for your honesty.
Speaker 1:And then I just really got really lucky in my first month. I think one of the only leads we ever saw come in was with Fluid Connecto and then it was handed over to me. I filled two roles at 13% and 15%, did 29K in my first month.
Speaker 2:What year was this?
Speaker 1:2016.
Speaker 2:2016. That's a long time ago. That's nine years. Doesn't feel like that long ago mate. You can see it on our faces you look at a video from 12 months ago to now, we look like we've aged 10 years. So what were your biggest lessons? Uh, I know we both had a short stint there, relatively speaking, um, but I think it was a really good training ground to set us up for the next stage of growth. What did you find the biggest lessons were when you started that agency? Tell us about it.
Speaker 1:Being really, really proactive and having to generate all your business yourself Like there was no besides that one lead I got. There was no other leads that I ever got given again. Being being ultra proactive building your own hit list the night before. Understanding during the days is billable hours, so you've got to be doing proactive shit. Don't waste time on stuff that's not going to make you money. Doing your job ads at night. We'd come in on Saturdays, sundays, prep our hit list. I remember I'd sit there falling asleep next to Deanna when we just started dating. I was probably like eight months, nine months into the job and I'm full on asleep writing a hit list. And she's like mate, where do you work? This is not normal that it's nine 30 at night and you're trying to get this hit. You're so stressed about getting a hit list together so you've got people to call the next day. I was like it just has to happen this way. Um, so yeah, that was probably the two biggest things is just like how did?
Speaker 2:you feel buzzed?
Speaker 1:you were buzzed. Yeah, I did not. I wasn't like upset about it. Yeah, I was so excited like I remember. We were chatting about potentially opening a sydney office and, um, it was just like we were all 23, 24. Everyone was ripping it. You were doing really well and leading the charge and we're all just following suit yeah, yeah, fun don't you reckon yeah, I, I, I enjoyed my time there.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I, I remember and I you know I don't know how much to disclose, but I remember I started. That was me, josh and richo, and there was just three of us in a little serviced office and it was probably when you're at corporate corby christy corporate house or something yeah, yeah, christy christy cases yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2:And um, how big was the office? Oh it was, it was probably. I think you could fit like four desks, four or five desks, yeah, and um, and I remember my first day, so intense interview process. I got asked to pitch two candidates for an interview and so the only person that I knew that was in recruitment at the time was Desh. And I called Desh and I'm like, hey, mate, I'm meant to like pitch two resumes for an interview. I don't even know how that works. And he's like, yeah, you know, just make up some resumes, blah, blah, blah. So I made up two fake people. I also made up a fake business card and put the rock logo on it so it looked like I was already working there and I think I did an okay job.
Speaker 2:Mate that's thinking outside the box.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I gave him a business card with my name on it. I'm like here you go, mate, and he's like what the fuck? And then I pitched the two people and you know, I think it was obviously a decent interview. And I remember my first day, my first day I walked to the office. I was Richard was there. He was on the phone, though Richard was like always on the phone, like that's one thing that I really looked up to and admired, like he was always on the phone, like that's one thing that I really looked up to and admired, like he was always on the phone talking to people and like there was barely any time that he was not on the phone. And so I get there and I'm sitting there for five, ten minutes, he's still on the phone. I'm like what do I do? So I just started fucking calling people and I think I made 15 calls who do just anyone in my contact list.
Speaker 2:I just went through my contact list and I was like, oh, I'll call my old sales manager, call my old GM, call my old boss at here. I'll call this guy. He's left my last job and now he's a sales manager there. So I think I made yeah, probably 10 to 15 phone calls. Did you get any jobs on? No, but I remember Richard looking at me like this fucking guy's on the phone already and I'm just like, hey, mate.
Speaker 2:I think my first phone call was to a guy called Chris. He was the fleet manager of the Holden dealership at the Marooka Mile. I'm like, hey, chris, how are you, mate? What do you do to hire people? I'm just in recruitment. I'm 10 minutes in. I need to fucking get some clients, mate. Every time we sit down there's always a story I've never heard. Yeah, yeah. So I started calling him. I called my old boss at CSG. Now Fuji Film Got a job on from him. But you know we already spoke about getting a job on, as I, as he gave me the reference and I felt like it was almost too fun and too easy, especially coming from photocopiers, which you know we can talk about after. But that was a really good training ground as well.
Speaker 1:What did you? What did you do? Cause I know there's a lot of recruiters, I wouldn't even think like that to just start picking up the phone Cause I saw my boss on the phone. There'd be so much hesitation and thought processes, why not to do it? What, what was? Could you explain to people how you think that way? Say that again. So it'd be like I would never think like that to roll into a brand new job and just pick up the phone and start talking to people. I think 99% of people could agree with me that that's not normal. So like, how would you explain to people that being that proactive, like that's a reason why you've achieved what you've achieved? So like, more people need to learn from that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's just like understanding the fundamental of what you're there to do and then just like trying to do it. What is the fundamental?
Speaker 1:of being a recruiter.
Speaker 2:Well, you're there to place people and get clients to want to work with you. Like, obviously I'd never been through training, but I understood that well, we need a company that wants to use our services of recruitment to find them staff. That's literally all I knew. So I just thought, okay, well, I'm just going to start calling anyone that I know who has a hiring responsibility. They might go hey, no, we don't use recruiters or whatever. But I just need to start learning and figuring out what people's perception is, what the conversations are like.
Speaker 2:And it was pretty easy because I had 15 old people that I've either worked for in the past, worked with in the past, had a good relationship with. So I just called like 10 or 15 people I already knew and just started asking if they've ever used a recruiter. Did they have a role? And just started like getting into it. And then, obviously you know, when he got off the phone, he's like mate, what have you been doing? And because I remember at the time it took me a while to figure out how to actually dial out, because you've got to press zero first and then and I'm like trying to call and I'm fucking stuck and I'm like it's not dialing out. And then I finally worked out you're gonna press zero first and then dial the number and then do the outbound calls. If, man, what were you doing? Like I don't know, I was just calling people seeing if they need recruitment. He's like, yeah, okay, man, we're gonna do some training first.
Speaker 2:Uh, but I think that was a really good, like funny, like moment that I look back on now and I go, fuck, I did. I was actually being a bit of a hustler, uh at the time. Uh, but it was yeah, it was super fun and it was far easier than selling photocopiers. Um, so I felt like similar to you, going photococopies, comm only to. I had a 55K salary was my starting salary and I thought that always icked me, that I got jibbed. I'm surprised you only got 45, mate, but I got 55 and I thought, wow, I'm rich, I don't even need to earn comms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah same, I'm fucking getting a sick salary, and so, like I wasn't even in a spot where I was desperate for commissions, I was like, well, I'm already earning great money, I can just focus on learning and being the best recruiter, I can be.
Speaker 2:And I think that's what helped me just try to dial into my craft is because I felt like I was already well ahead of the curb financially with a 55K salary, and then commissions was just like a nice little bonus, yep, so okay. So that was your time when you first got into recruitment. Walk us through, like the thought process on starting Blended, because you started Blended pretty quickly after you got into recruitment. Walk us through that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it was two months or two years like July 3rd is pretty much almost two years to the date in which I started, blended to which I started in recruitment. So it was, I was at cross, I was at a, I was about to be made a manager divisional manager and we're going through the recruitment process. And then one of my family friends was like. I went to him how can be a better manager? How I can do this? You know how I can. Linkedin was getting a little bit popular. I'd post a couple of photos, got like 10, 11,000 impressions. I'm like we need to be posting more on LinkedIn, and just of us in the office. And so then from there, I then caught up with Scroggs and he's like mate, why don't you just do it for yourself?
Speaker 1:I had zero recruitment experience before I started Chefs on the Run and I'm like, yeah, but, mate, you're a bit different to me, like I'm about to get another juicy pay rise and manage people. And I didn't think so. He's like no, mate, I'll give you the guidance and help you do it. I'm like, yeah, well, I guess Blake's done it, so can't be that hard. And it was a bit of a like, a like what your mom did to you pretty much strokes did to me and he's like no mate. And I was like all right, well, it's going to take a while for me to work all this stuff out um get prepared. So that was in february, and then I didn't go go live until july, um when I actually resigned okay, so five months it took to get your house in order to do it.
Speaker 2:What was the mindset going through that five months? How did you feel, knowing you're setting up an agency in your spare time? Did it demotivate you? Did it motivate you? Did you feel awkward at work?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it felt awkward because you're not being truly honest, but then you're also. Yeah, it's a little bit hard. You're sort of torn between two roads because you're trying to. You always want to be true to yourself and be honest with people but then you can't be too honest.
Speaker 1:So it was a tricky five months. I was still doing all right and then, like, moved in with Deanna pretty quick as well, I think, like the July before. So, yeah, we'd been living together for six months. Um, they're like, yeah, we're starting a business, and then the advice at the time was like, cut all costs, you got to move back home. So, like you know, we were in Hawaii in December, having Hawaii and Tasmania in the Christmas holidays, and then by February we're bunking down, getting everything ready, um, not renewing the lease. I used to live in an awesome little apartment near the Breaky Creek and then scale back life pretty quick no more cocktail nights and traveling around.
Speaker 2:Was that good advice? No, why.
Speaker 1:Because I think it kept me thinking small, like I didn't. It then trickled like I kept thinking like how much do I save? How can I save more, more, more, instead of having like more of an abundance mindset where I'm like I've got to make more. So there is, like you know, we were talking to the laughing the other day about opportunity costs. You can only push so far until you actually run out of money before you've outsourced everything.
Speaker 1:So, this was probably the complete opposite to that, where I'm trying to save absolutely every penny and do it the cheapest way possible. So that's probably what I wouldn't suggest.
Speaker 2:I'd find a happy median, so I'd be interested to learn like what were the biggest struggles at Blended. Now we've got hindsight Amazing, we can reflect back and go. This was a really interesting moment. I wish I did this a little bit better. If I had my time again, this is how I would do things differently. Can you walk us through your reflections on blended and what was interesting, what you'd change?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I started in a six by three square meter office. It was completely glass in a corporate house serviced office. It's not like funky WeWork, it's like this old corporate setting. I think they've updated it now, but back in 2018, that's what it was. So I'd have this tiny little office.
Speaker 1:Scroggs is like all right, you've got to put a map of Australia up on the wall because you're going to put this country all around Australia. I'm like, am I? I feel like I'm just trying to get to my first placement, let alone worrying about building a national business. But I had it up there and that's what I was trying to tell myself. And then it was just so lonely Like I'd have him sit out the front of my office, we'd have the door etched open and he'd sit there in a chair and I'd just be cold calling, cold calling, getting rejected all day. And then it was just no one was around, like it was the most lonely thing ever. I'd find myself calling. I'd call Deanna, I'd call Dallas Mattioli and just confide in them as to how they're doing what they're doing, just to avoid picking up the phone because I'm just going to get rejected like 70 times before someone says something Because I kept the advice at the time was tell them you're a recruiter and you've got great candidates and I'm like time.
Speaker 1:I valued that more than what I had been doing. Um, and then it wasn't until like a year after that we're actually changed the script, started doing a traditional recruitment where I started getting way better results. Um focused a lot of energy on social media, like I think in my first year of business I got like 2 million impressions on LinkedIn, which was huge. Got in Courier Mail, channel 7, sky News, abc Radio, like all that stuff was set, which is the fun stuff we do now. But we weren't focused on that when we started XRecruiter so like, but I focused that heavily. I remember Ephraim and Manisha. We would record our impressions each week as opposed to recording our sendings.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:That's how much scrolls like yeah, this is the way, this is the way I'm, like, mate. And then my fees was so small I was charging like my first fee was two grand, my next fee was four grand, my next fee was four grand, my next fee got up to seven. I hovered around seven for a while and this guy called me purple bricks and said, hey, like you're so cheap, you'll be out of business soon. So yeah, probably being lonely undercutting the market was really bad, focusing on media, personal branding, marketing way too much and not focusing on having a core business.
Speaker 2:They're probably the four areas which I reflect on which really let me down. Okay, so let's say Declan's having another crack blended 2.0. How do you solve the loneliness? What would you have done differently to not feel so lonely? Because I'm sure there's recruiters out there that are running their business right now that feel lonely. So Declan as he is today, like how is he going to solve being lonely? Starting his business from scratch?
Speaker 1:So I would find people that are one to two years ahead of me and then I would reach out and go, hey, this is where I'm feeling, because likely they felt the same thing when they started, but they got through it. So I'd reach out to them and go, hey, I've just started in business. I'm three, four months in. I'm finding this really lonely. It's really boring in this office. There's no one else around me. Could I come work out of your office for one day a?
Speaker 2:week.
Speaker 1:How about we just catch up for a coffee and build a relationship and I only do it with like two or three people, I wouldn't waste too much energy on it. Whoever said yes, I'll just go on LinkedIn, go. You know who's a business director of a small agency.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how would you figure out who to? Is there some sort of criteria? Like what or is it just like oh you know what, someone that looks good just reach out to them and-.
Speaker 1:I'd go on LinkedIn recruiter, put in a Boolean search small business or an agency director, zero to two staff, or whatever the minimum is, or zero staff. And then I'd reach out to them minimum two years in business. And then I'd go hey, I'm feeling really lonely, can we catch up for a coffee? Love to pick your brain? Yeah, like what you did with Sean, but I'll just scale it all the way back so I'd find them more relatable. Yeah to me. That's how I'd fix the loneliness yeah okay, what was the second thing?
Speaker 1:the personal branding over doing that yeah talk to us about that.
Speaker 2:So it was why would you, why would you change that?
Speaker 1:I don't think you. Let me explain how. How focused we were on it. It was like we were writing letters every day, we were posting every day, we were doing videos, multiple videos a day. Like all of that is is it opens amazing opportunities, but it wasn't targeted, it wasn't focused on the right demographic, it was just spray and pray putting it out there. It was an awesome message, fighting for small business and all this stuff, but a lot of people were confused by what I was talking about. So if you can do a targeted approach, focus on your core niche and market to them as opposed to trying to market to everyone, then it would be better.
Speaker 2:So how much time per day was getting consumed by trying to do this marketing stuff.
Speaker 1:I think actual time of delivery would be between one hour. But like mental planning, the thought of it, always checking LinkedIn, looking at impressions, like yeah, you could take up three hours a day just on doing that, getting replies, going to meetings, going to small business stuff. So what would you do differently? I would just focus on mapping my market, focus on, like the 80-20 rule, finding the top 20 businesses within my niche and focus on directly marketing to them and then focus everything on building my actual business, like the metrics that matter, outcomes that matter, getting really dialed in on what are my jobs on, what are my client meetings, what are my jobs on, what interviews are with in front of clients and what deals am I doing. That's really all that matters, those four things. And then I'll just post daily and say you know, just one post, whether it be a status, a photo or a video, keep it really simple.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I guess, just to kind of like tie a bow on this, what would be like the overarching advice for recruiters who are either currently a recruiter thinking about going on their own, or they've just started. Like what's the one piece of advice that you think would either help them think differently or focus on what matters?
Speaker 1:Osmosis. You're 15 or 30% better when you're around people, so get around other recruiters, be in the same room. There's a reason why we did so well because we're all together. There's a reason why I did so bad when I went out on my own because I was just me. It's like the analogy of being in a boxer Everyone's got a cornerman and then also just really focus on the outcomes that matter. Don't get caught up in social media.
Speaker 2:It's just not worth it, love that, and so now Geordie is looking after Blended Yep and your sole focus now is 100% into X Recruiter. X Recruiter has been going two and a half years. Tell me about that. What's the last two and a half years been like?
Speaker 1:for you. Yeah, it's been crazy. It's um been a hectic ride. You've been there from the beginning, um, and I felt like we were planning it nine months before it even, yeah, went live as well, so, yeah, I don't know how to sum it up.
Speaker 2:It's been everything the highs, the lows walk us through maybe one of the most memorable moments of ex-recruiter for you the most memorable moments of ex-recruiter would be the legacy awards.
Speaker 1:why? Um well, the most exciting part, I think, why we all get out of bed is the success of the partners. So to have everyone there, the emotion in the room, the speeches, what it all meant to everyone, it was just like insane, don't?
Speaker 2:you reckon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100% Like. It doesn't like the media and the AFR and the photo shoots. That's all cream on top. But like that night night, matt's speech about legacy um, that was probably the most moving night I think we've all had in business together yeah, yeah, 100.
Speaker 2:What about you, I'd have to say legacy awards as well? That was when it felt like super real. Um, obviously everything feels real, but like when everyone's in the room and they're all celebrating the success, as you say, all together it's wow. Look at what we've been able to create as a community, which is, I think, super, super special. I've said this a couple of times on, like LinkedIn posts, but I genuinely feel the most successful businesses moving forward small, medium or large, they will be successful as a foundation because of community.
Speaker 2:Businesses that push community will be the next big, exciting, sticky, successful businesses if you don't have a community, you're not pushing your community, you're not creating or participating in a community, then I think you're kind of missing a trick for the next 10, 20, 30 years, as technology evolves and people get less and less, less and less close, and like you're an example you know you're talking to like chat GPT and trying to get ideas.
Speaker 2:Like you're not talking to other people as much about your ideas because you're talking to Catch EPT. And so I saw this like this crazy stat the other day that there's like 13 and 14-year-olds that now are having an AI bot as their best friend and they've got more and 32-year-olds and 32-year-olds. And there's like this epidemic right now where there's like this child ai bot like chat gpt for kids that are 13 and 14 years old that gets more traffic and more prompts than chat gpt at the moment and it's just kids talking to it about their day and asking how they are and then telling them how they are as well and like building genuine relationships with ai. And it's almost. As this continues, the relationships we all have will be less and less with each other and more and more with the computer, and the biggest difference that I think we will be able to make in the future of business is ensuring community what about, what about?
Speaker 2:challenges. What are the? What are some of the biggest challenges you've had, like at blended? You know, you've got hindsight. You wish you were around other people that were high performers, you wish you focused on the metrics that matter, and there's some things that you would have changed. What? What about the last two years? Tell us about the challenges over the last two years. With Execruder it's a whole different beast. It's completely different to you know Run and Blended. You know seven years ago or six years ago. So what were the challenges over the last two years, reflecting back, and what did you learn from them?
Speaker 1:Hey, where do we begin? I think everyone looks at our highlight reel and thinks this has been easy.
Speaker 1:This has been probably the hardest time I've ever had in business. Never felt so out of my depth, probably up until eight months ago. But yeah, there's challenges all the time. I think if we actually spoke about them, no one would probably believe us. Give us one how we kept going. Hey, give us one.
Speaker 1:Probably the biggest one was when I went to tasha's launch party and then I just wasn't feeling myself. I felt so out of place and I've already spoken about this, so I feel comfortable sharing it. Um, but yeah, I felt so out of place. I was like you know, matt's, here, he's, this guy's a big dog, he's running the show. I'm like fuck, I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:It used to be just have a few sales and hang out with partners and now, like this guy's a ceo of a 45 person recruitment agency, these partners are building bigger businesses than me and blake ever built. Like what the hell's going on here? I don't deserve to be here, um, and I was just like I would wake up with like heart palpitations through the night, going like fuck, is this whole thing going to implode? Are people going to find out that I'm not that good at business? And, um, I don't know how to manage anyone. I'm not managing people. Well, you know the the whole delivery of all the projects didn't go to plan. Um, we're working across split offices. Um, getting into a crappy financial position, didn't get a salary for 18 months, put all our money in. You know, I was living a pretty good life before extra credit came about. We just bought a house sell our fucking house.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it was probably a backlog of all that stuff never going to anyone, never talking to anyone, probably not even being truly honest to you, just sort of bundling it all up. And then, um, and then Brody called me out on it. He's like, dude, you're not yourself, what's what's doing? Like that, you're not the Declan that I know and we obviously got to build a pretty good relationship through doing the coaching and stuff with him. And he's like you need to fucking man the fuck up and be honest and get help. And I'm like, holy shit, okay. And then I just randomly got onto Audible and found Michael Anderson's book. And then I think I came into the office and I was like on a Saturday with you and I think I burst into tears. I was like, mate, this is the problem I've worked out. And you're like, yeah, I've been trying to tell you that for a while. So that was probably the biggest inflection point.
Speaker 2:You know when you say something and no one listens to you, then they hear it from someone else. They finally hear it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I was literally the martyr in the office. Even if you just look up the summary of the book, it was me to a T. Michael's story is that he had the same inflection point he got punched in the face by his business partner. So lucky that's never happened to us. Um, so yeah, and then it was just like everything added up. I'm like, wow, I'm this stressed, yeah, my getting more and more gray hairs. I wasn't training, wasn't looking after myself and it was just a complete wig out. So, yeah, from that, that was probably the most hectic moment. There's obviously a way of a lot more chaotic shit that happened building up to that for that mushroom. And then now, looking back, like you just got to get to problems while they're a little problem, not when they're a big problem, and yeah, like, oh fuck, here we go. And then took blake's advice again and got a coach for all the areas of life and I think I'm slowly getting better.
Speaker 2:Love that what about you? What about me?
Speaker 1:yeah, what's your biggest?
Speaker 2:over what?
Speaker 1:ex-recruiter. Yeah, or do vendito. We didn't speak about it. What's your biggest takeaway from vendito? And then?
Speaker 2:we can go to exRecruiter.
Speaker 2:So I started Vendito eight years ago and I had 13, 14 months recruitment experience. I was super grateful that my mom just gave me the same line why don't you just do this for yourself? And I never actually considered starting a recruitment agency before. But when she said that I kind of just thought I don't think I'm capable to do that. What do you, how do you even like get started? And so thankfully my mom's a small business owner and she kind of got the, got the building box together for me and then I just cracked on. But so that was eight years ago. I scaled up to a team of like 10 within the first like six to 12 months.
Speaker 1:That means you're in like the top 8% of businesses for size.
Speaker 2:Once you get over five staff. I didn't stay there, so I think I hired like four people in my third month, so I started around November.
Speaker 1:It was your first day in business. Go through your phone, start calling people to see if they want to work for you. I called four of the boys.
Speaker 2:I called Josh Scott Lehman. Jimmy, your phone start calling people to see if they want to work for you. I called four of the boys. I called josh scott lehman, um jimmy and um michael and um horgan, lockie horgan, and they were all on com only fantastic five. Put them together. I was like boys, come only 10k, cost a seat and 50 comms after 10k. And how did you come up with that? I just kind of made it up I didn't know what I was doing.
Speaker 2:But it was great because I had a 50k threshold for the month before paying out any columns, so, like, my net profit for the month was always at least 50k and, um, it ended up being really good but not sustainable. You know, everyone was partying. You know we're 23, 24, partying, being ratbags, not being our best selves. It certainly wasn't a sustainable culture and lifestyle, and so half of the difficulty of getting everyone to be like more reined in was that they were comm only, so they could just basically do whatever they want, and I didn't know how to overcome. Well, yeah, I guess I'm not paying you, so you can kind of come and go as you please. You can do whatever you like. It's ultimately up to you. So it was really difficult to get a handle on the culture.
Speaker 2:But that was a really interesting moment of my life where I was adding people. I was trying to change from comm only to salaries. I think I put everyone on a 45K plus super salary and then I hired a few more people, three or four more people on top of that, and I was essentially, at one point, the only person billing paying for everyone's salaries, and I was essentially, at one point, the only person billing, paying for everyone's salaries, and I was stressed to the max because maybe Josh would do a good month, I would do a good month. There'd be a couple of donuts. You had like 30 grand in wages. Oh, it was crazy. Yeah, it was super stressful and I was running off pure instinct and there was no systems, there was no processes, there was no. This is how we do things. It was essentially me, my instincts and my best guess, and so that went okay, but it wasn't a fun moment in life, I think my first 12 months in business was surprisingly quite good because for six to eight months of it was comm only recruiters.
Speaker 2:I was making a bit before I had to pay out comms. And then my second year in business was probably the hardest because I had heaps of salaries, I'd grown too quickly, I had heaps of costs that were coming through and I was going backwards seriously fast and I couldn't work out why. Because I had all these staffs and I thought having like 10 staff meant I was super successful and it looked it. Oh yeah, it looked it, but it was super stressful it wasn't a good time.
Speaker 1:What made it stressful knowing that you weren't as successful as you looked.
Speaker 2:Not particularly. I think it was just trying to manage people for the first time.
Speaker 1:That, oh, you'd never managed anyone either. No, you'd never been a captain of a football team. No Same, first time in business.
Speaker 2:Uh, that, oh, you'd never managed anyone either. You'd never been a captain of a football team. Same First time in business.
Speaker 2:I had four months off recruitment because I resigned and went into work for my parents for three months and hated it. So you can imagine having like four months off work kind of like. Kind of like not driving a car for three months. You drive a car again, you're a little bit awkward and you don't know how to drive properly. It feels a bit uncomfortable. So I started back in recruitment again and hadn't like picked up the phone. In four months I had never managed anyone. I've never run a business before and there were so many things I was trying to figure out for the first time.
Speaker 1:I've never thought about any of those things. I just used to look at you and go how the fuck is this guy doing it?
Speaker 2:Yeah it was hard. He's got it all worked out. Yeah, yeah, it was really hard, and I think you know, looking back, one of the things that I probably would have changed is I would have taken my processes and systems more seriously, because I was running really hard but I wasn't running in any sort of direction, and so the thing that I'm realizing now, you know, seven, eight years on, is you can have a small business and scale just as quickly as long as you have the systems and processes in place, and it can be more predictable, it can be less chaotic, it can be less scary, and if I had my time again, I would really start thinking about okay, what's my onboarding plan, what's?
Speaker 1:my training plan what?
Speaker 2:does success look like in three months? What does success look like in 12 months? Not just for my staff, but for me as a business owner, because the only measurement of success I had was how much money we made at the end of the month, and that was it. So it was really quick, really quickly. I found myself in this spot after two or three years of like. Is this? I'm just cranking massive days, working my ass off. Is this kind of it Like? At what point can I take a fucking break? And I couldn't, because there was no structure. I didn't get anyone to be a manager, I didn't. It was just like recruiters reporting to me, billing and it was the hardest time to run a business like that.
Speaker 2:So I guess, if I could have my time again, I would think about what the business goals are quarterly. I'd have a system, I'd have a process, I'd have an operational rhythm and framework that would help me grow sustainably, without the stress that comes with trying to build a business?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's fortunate that we're in a position we can do that now. But, like, what would you suggest to a recruiter? Who would you go to? How would you get this information If you take a recruiter out of the picture and you're back there and you need that advice.
Speaker 2:How do you actually get it without, I think, the only well, I don't, I I don't know, like I don't know where you would get it from, which is why you never got it well yeah, it's why I never got it and why you know we're so passionate about ex-recruiter because we have that for our partners who have a one to two person business but they have the operational excellence of a big agency and they can hire more confidently, they can train their staff and onboard their staff more confidently, they can reduce their turnover, they can know when to hire. Is it, you know, when you have 50 grand in the bank account or is it when you have a certain amount of clients? Like, all of this stuff is like you're just shooting in the dark. When you're running a business for the first time and you go, I think I need to hire someone, I'm not sure. I don't know who to hire. I don't know if, like, I've got the money to hire someone. I don't know how my responsibilities change when I do hire someone for the first time.
Speaker 2:I don't know why anyone would want to join my business, because it's just me and there's all these like really really hard points that you've got to think about and overcome. That was a struggle and it is a struggle and I think that's why so many recruiters or small agency owners specifically, they try and scale up to five people and then it's two, and then it's six, and then it's two, or it's just stuck at one or two, and it's because they don't have this framework. So that would be. My biggest lesson is, if I was to start again, I would take it easy. I would appreciate the journey and not be so fixated on the goal and vanity metrics. Yeah, don't consider headcount as your measurement of success.
Speaker 2:I would appreciate the journey and not be so fixated on the goal and vanity metrics. Yeah, don't consider headcount as your measurement of success. I would consider productivity per person. I think that's the biggest measurement of success for a recruitment agency is how productive on average, how?
Speaker 1:do you work out productivity?
Speaker 2:Well, you, just your total revenue divided by head count okay so if you've got three, if you, if you're, if you're doing a million dollars, you've got three staff productivity per person's 333 grand but what happens if a director is bringing in 700? Same thing okay yeah, you just divide it by you just divide it by staff. Maybe you wouldn't put your billings in, depending on circumstances. But, um, you know, if you've got two people and you do a 1.5 mil, you've got a really highly productive small team Amazing.
Speaker 1:But if you've got like it's also a massive risk, like if you have two people billing 1.5, one person's responsible for 750K and 50% of the revenue if they leave or maybe.
Speaker 2:Well, it is a huge risk, but I guess the measurement of success through any point of scaling is how productive per person is my team and you could have 10 people and you're bringing in $2 million and your average person productivity is 200 grand. It's like, oh, hang on. So I've got to pay him 90, plus super, plus work cover, plus insurance, like all this.
Speaker 1:Maybe we can make a calculator for that. A hundred percent, that'd be a pretty good tool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's what I would focus on, and I wouldn't focus on bums on seats and get my calculator out and go. Well, if they technically built 25 grand, I'd make all this money. So let's give them a crack, and that's essentially what the mindset was Okay.
Speaker 1:So as long as you don't focus on likes and impressions on LinkedIn and vanity metrics, you're going to be much more successful than just Declan and Blake, exactly.
Speaker 2:And then what's?
Speaker 1:the biggest yeah, what's the most meaningful moment for you? And the biggest, scariest moment that's ever happened at XRecruiter.
Speaker 2:I think the most meaningful moment was definitely legacy awards, and I don't want to say the same thing and have a bit of a cop out.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, we know you don't do that. Yeah, taking taking corners, cut corners here. But legacy awards was really really good. Um, you know there's a hundred people there. Um, heaps of new business owners, heaps of successful new business owners. Um, putting a face to a name, celebrating their wins, like it was amazing giving out awards Like who would have thought that we're given the recruitment agencies awards for doing an amazing job? So I think that was like a really nice moment where I I felt like what I'm doing here is making such a positive impact. I've always I've I valued and measured myself on the impact that I can make on others, and a lot of that is trying to take someone from one socioeconomic level to the next. I think that's really powerful. Someone's got this mindset and this lifestyle, that's this big and that's all they know, and showing them that, hey, look at this big mindset and lifestyle, this is possible for you. And they go wow, I didn't know I was capable of this, I didn't know this was possible.
Speaker 2:I think that's probably the most special, impactful thing that I can do, and that's what we do every day at Extra. Crew yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:Do you see Maddie's post Summon Up February. Oh, what the hell that happens in a month, 28 days 28 days.
Speaker 2:That's what's happened. So I would have to say Legacy Awards, because it made it all real. What was the scariest moment? I think one of the most challenging moments was our back office drama.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that took years off my life and I know I didn't show it, um, but um, so for context, um, we used to use an outsource team for our um, payrolling and kind of financial services. Um, because we weren't at the size where we could afford to bring in an in-house team yet. So we're outsourcing. I think we're paying $25,000 a month retainer for these services and it was going well. One day the owner sat us down and said hey, the price is going up to $79,000 a month. You guys are doing really well and you've essentially got four days to sign this agreement or we're stopping all services.
Speaker 2:And at the time I thought, holy shit, I didn't realize how predatory people can be, especially when you think you've got a good relationship. Shit, I didn't realize how predatory people can be, especially when you think you've got a good relationship. And so, um, this was at a time where, um, I think tommy was maybe six, six months old, so I had I had to figure out how we can build an internal payroll and finance team, basically overnight, um to avoid disrupting the services for our partners.
Speaker 1:They were pretty heavily disrupted, though.
Speaker 2:Oh, huge, huge, and it was really really stressful and at that time my daughter got really sick, my son got really sick, and we're not talking, just normal sick.
Speaker 1:We're talking really sick. My son got really sick and we're not talking just normal sick, we're talking really sick. We're talking super sick.
Speaker 2:Hospital multiple times, four viruses in hospital for a week. Shortly after I had an anaphylactic response. My daughter was extremely sick too Like. I've got photos on my phone where, like Tommy, can't even open his eyes, his eyes are essentially like shut. He had, uh, he had rhinovirus. Um, he had conjunctivitis, he had pneumonia, he had um, influenza c and all at the same time.
Speaker 2:Six months old, so he was absolutely cooked, um, couldn't eat, had to keep shoving stuff down his nose and try and feed him because he wouldn't swallow. Six months old, so he was absolutely cooked, couldn't eat, had to keep shoving stuff down his nose and try and feed him because he wouldn't swallow, but his nose was so blocked that they couldn't do it. So they tried like four times. A little six-month-old just screaming as they're just trying to shove stuff down his throat is not a vibe. So I had my son's really sick, my daughter's really sick, my miss is really sick. I had this son's really sick, my daughter's really sick, my missus is really sick. I had this like mission critical moment at Extra Crew.
Speaker 1:Was it the?
Speaker 2:Armageddon moment and we were getting investigated for labour and like I had like it almost felt like every part of my life.
Speaker 1:And I was just running around wigging out. Yeah, it felt like every part of my life and I'm just running around wigging out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it felt like every part of my life was like challenging me and I'm calling Arnie and I just remember calling Arnie and going. Arnie, mate, I have got pains in my chest right now and I don't know how to like see, clearly, and you know, I used to have to have calls with Arnie because he's such just like a calm man, like as soon as you speak to him you feel like everything's okay, and so that was really really challenging for me. It was like a six to eight week period, but it's always darkest before dawn and that ended up being one, an amazing moment for me, where I felt like I earned my role at X Recruiter because everything felt like beforehand it went pretty well, I had good momentum signing people up. Yeah, there was a few challenges here and there, but like there's no challenge we can't overcome, but this was probably one of the most significant because of so many things happening all at the same time, where I thought, okay, blake, this is an opportunity where you can test out your perseverance and your resilience.
Speaker 2:Just you would go home. Home was a fucking shit show. Couldn't sleep trying to look after your son, emotionally drained, because your're, like your kids and your partner's, really, really sick. I don't know how I didn't get sick. I think I was, but I just didn't. Perhaps you didn't register to it. I couldn't bear getting sick, and so I think that was probably one of the most challenging, but in hindsight it was probably an experience that money can't buy, that I'm actually really grateful for.
Speaker 1:And mate like at the end of that, remember the huge loss as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right, and we lost $300,000. We had a client put on 30, 40 contractors and go insolvent the next day when we asked them to pay their bill and, yeah, lost 300 grand. So, yeah, I mean, lost 300 grand under investigation. Obviously, that's all good now because of some nasty people trying to throw rocks at us and, yeah, having to build a payroll team trying to make sure that there's no disruption to our service. Kids sick it was yeah, it was a lot were not happy, partners were not happy, and I'm so grateful they didn't give up on us. Yeah, like that's. That's the one thing that I think is our superpower is community, because we're running a business that no one's ever run before, for the first time ever, and we're just trying to trying to do our best, and so are our partners. So our partners are running a business that's never done before. They're just trying to do their best as well, and I think what's so special is we're all in the same boat together. So I'm super grateful for our partners that turned around and-.
Speaker 1:Rally together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're like all right, it's mission critical moment at the moment. Let's all get together, figure out how we're going to solve this. We need to make sure x recruit is all good. We need to make sure we're all good and we all got together and solve, solve the problem. Um, and I don't know of any scenarios of other businesses where they've gone to their clients hey, this is our, and all the clients have gotten together and fixed the issue. I've only had one with Onnit, joe Rogan's supplement company. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they had hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay and they didn't get their shipment in time. So they went to their customers and their customers paid for all their products and then said we'll deliver them later. Yeah, but that's like that company sold to Unilever. Pretty special guys if Joe Rogan's involved, right yeah.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, that wasn't fun, having a face story every day at CrossFit, being like, hey, mate, how you going? And we're working through it. But yeah, that was a hectic couple of months. Yeah, so where are we at now, mate? I think the sun is shining. It's a really exciting time we've we've actually got a full team now. All services are completely in-house. They have been for months, um, and then now we've you know, we've got 90 of the team is there for partner support. Like it's just me and head in sales. Everyone else is there to ensure the success of all partners. We're bringing literally the best people in the country together. Like. Like every time we hire, everyone gets better. Just that, you can tell, the environment in 2025 in the office is way different to Declan's baseball caps, sneakers and shorts and T-shirts. I feel like we're going to a whole new level together as a team. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel like we're going to a whole new level together as a team. Yeah, it's exciting when partners that joined us a year and a half, two years ago say to us like I think we've had maybe five or six people have reached out to me in the last couple of weeks saying I cannot believe how much Execruder has leveled up since we first joined, Because Execruder two years ago it was like it was a bit of a thought. We were stumbling around trying to figure shit out. We didn't have our shit down on lock, we didn't even know what our responsibilities were as leaders. We were severely understaffed and Running out of money yeah, zero dollars, bootstrappedpped, just trying to figure it all out. And we had like I don't know what it was specifically, but we had like a decent amount of recruiters just totally put their faith in us.
Speaker 2:Um, and it's a. It's a funny throwaway line that you know we joke about with h people around just trust us. Like I hate. I sometimes don't like it when you say that to me. I'm like, bro, of course I trust you, but don't use that as as a point to like overcome like an objection. But H people being our first like labor hire recruiters to join us and we had no idea about labor hire, and it was like they're like oh, are you sure, guys, we're gonna be okay? Like yeah, boys, just trust us. And that was that was literally. That was literally how he signed them up. And they say to us all the time they're like just trust us look at where we are now.
Speaker 2:Hey, just trust us. And it's just so nice to be able to build those relationships with recruiters and help them on their journey and they help us on ours, and we're all working together. It's crazy. All right, the full 180. I'm not sure what that means. Double down. Who are you thankful for you?
Speaker 1:Thank you, mate. Serge Ryan, you guys are in the room so you come straight to mind. But, mate, like Matty, everyone is like, I think, like we were still getting our shit together when we. I remember meeting Matt Cossons in the, that the cafe, like the bottom part of this expensive apartment he was staying at, and I'm sitting there and I'm like downplaying X Recruiter and I think he got into it and did the first few sessions. He's like oh, mate, this is pretty good, Love the partners, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:And I think the biggest tipping point to X Recruiter was him putting his balls on the line and you speak to a lot of recruiters about him when he's not around and they've got a lot of really good shit to say and for him to put his whole career essentially on the line. In regards to me and you, it was a pretty bold move on his part. Like you, look at the team before he came on board. I think it was Ryan, it was, wasn't it you, me and Logan and maybe who else was there Taryn and Chloe and Sammy yeah, I remember even some meetings with you. Know, shout out to Sammy too like sticking through it for the first couple of years. I remember sitting in there and they're like so, boys, you need to put more money in. You're probably going to lose 135 grand this month.
Speaker 1:And I'm like holy fuck, what do we need to do? You need to improve partner performance and get more signups. And I'm like, oh shit, so like going through that, that was like crazy times. And Sammy's like, yeah, you just got to keep going. Boys, I'm like that's easy for you to say. This is like everything's on the line here and and then so, but yeah, fortunately enough, like we just kept cracking on. So yeah, they was. You know, those founding people that believed in us when we had nothing. I think, how'd you get the job, ryan? You were. Blake hit you up on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, linkedin approach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, on LinkedIn. Blake hit you up on LinkedIn. Yeah, linkedin approach. Yeah, yeah, approach you on LinkedIn. You're working for your mom. And then you brought two amazing mates to the team in Tyler and Xavier, and Serge is on board and like the creative team that like we market better than you know, in our little backlog of analytics we go up against acquisitioncom and SirHent Ryan. Sirhent, like that's who we want to compete with in marketing. So to be able to do those things is and it's the whole team mate. I wish I had a list of everyone here, but I think also our Deanna and Kat as well. I don't know, I'm not easy to be around. So the fact Deanna's put up with this the whole time and said, yeah, let's do it, maybe sometimes I can overshare, and stresses her out. So maybe learning that off you. But yeah, that'd be heaps of people mate, like arnie, michael, ryan tuckwood, um, the og partners, jimmy crystal yeah, heaps love that carwell boys well I think that's a really good tie off.
Speaker 1:What about?
Speaker 2:you. What about me? Yeah, yeah, I'm grateful for you, I'm grateful for our team. I'm grateful for and I don't talk about him too much but I'm grateful for Amy and Lexi. Amy and Lexi have really manned up at Venditto, become partners, are responsible for the P&L, responsible for growing a team. And you're right when we're at this moment where it's like, oh, you lost 100 grand this month. Oh, you lost 200 grand this month. Oh, you lost another 150 grand this month. And we're sitting there scratching our heads thinking, fucking hell, we lost 500 grand in the last three months. Like, what do we need to do to turn this around? And a really big lever to pull was Vendito. And the girl is just doing so well and, um, and just sucking every dollar out of Vendito to keep X recruiter going, um, was, uh, was amazing, because I had a good team at Vendito that I could rely on, even though I wasn't billing myself.
Speaker 2:So I, if it wasn't for amy and lexi performing at vendito, I think things might be yeah, I think things would be a little bit different, um, especially in the first kind of like year, year and a half um. So I'm super grateful for amy and lexi, um, grateful for my family too. My family's always an awesome sounding board to keep me balanced and sane and simple and to keep my perspective right. Obviously, dee you know Dee's been a big supporter of you and I think you two work really well together. She's decked out our office and, like everyone's impressed with the office, she got kicked out of her own office.
Speaker 1:She got kicked out of her own office.
Speaker 2:She got kicked out of her own office. Yep, obviously the team and you're right about Matt Cossons like Matt Cossons joined Exrecruiter when we didn't really have that many runs on the board, I think we had four billing partners.
Speaker 1:Really, yeah, we had like we had 400.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, I think we had four to five billing partners, I think. And when we were talking to Matt in, I don't know, I think it was like February, february last year roughly, and he's talking to us about his salary and how much he earns.
Speaker 1:I didn't realize we could get paid that much as a base man.
Speaker 2:I sat there and I was like, oh, this is not happening. And, yeah, shout out to Matt Cossens, because not only has he leveled up ex-recruiter significantly since he's joined, from both an authority, a credibility and just a professionalism standpoint, but he brought a lot of really good people in.
Speaker 2:He knows a lot of really good people in. He knows a lot of really good people. But he did put his own reputation on the line to join X Recruiter. If we were just ratbags and weren't living up to the values and ethics that Matt has, it would be not career destroying, but it would be pretty disappointing. Um, and so he's really taken a big punt on us. So for Matt, I'm super grateful.
Speaker 2:Um, because, he brings so much value that, um, we wouldn't have had otherwise, and I feel like Matt joining has snowballed to, to then Taryn, to the next person and then to Ed and um, and so I think that was a really big game changer for us. So I'm super grateful for that, Um, and I'm just grateful for the journey. I think the longer I'm in business it's been eight years now and I'm still learning every single day I think the longer I'm in business, the more I realize it's the journey that matters, not the destination.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't understand that. I bet you know when I'd see Gary Vee say that he's like enjoy the journey. I'm like, mate, I'm fucking broke. I'm not seeing any of my friends. I don't see my kids. This journey fucking sucks yeah.
Speaker 2:You're right. You're right, it's really hard to see.
Speaker 1:I can say it now because I'm like this is the best journey ever the impact, the development, development. But yeah, when you're in there and you're getting that advice and that's why obviously you only get advice at different times it means different things, okay.
Speaker 2:So you need to get to a threshold where the journey becomes enjoyable. And it's really really difficult in the first couple of years because it's not about the journey, it's about survival, and so you can't sit there and be like, oh, this is a great journey when you're trying to survive. So once you get out of survival mode and you have your processes in place, you have your operational rhythm, you have your tech sorted, you've got clarity on where the business is going beyond, just how much money a month are we making, and there's a sensible plan and kind of roadmap, that's when the journey gets really good. When you start a recruitment agency, there is no journey. It's like bill, bill, bill, go home, bill, go on holiday, bill, buy a new car, bill a bit more, maybe hire some staff, maybe bill a bit more, and it's like it's not fun, like it's okay and it's a better quality of life than most others.
Speaker 2:But the big missing link with recruitment agencies is there's no actual plan. There's no plan to like be a better business, market better upskill, onboard better, train better. Well, at least I know for most recruitment agencies I've ever spoken to, which is why it's really hard to get from like zero to five, eight, zero to five recruiters, then to 10 to 20 recruiters, and then to 20 to 100 recruiters. It's really difficult because there's no plan. It's just like you're starting, you're billing and then that's. You know, that's your life. So I think the journey, the really key part, is that's true?
Speaker 2:the journey is about having hope at the like, what you're building towards, what you're going towards, and not just living month by month. And you can't enjoy that journey until you've got a plan. So, um, I love the fact that we've got a plan at execruta because the journey is enjoyable. We're like oh, this is the journey that we're going on. Let's design our life around this journey and figure out how to get that balance right. But when you've got no plan, no journey, no future perception, everything that happens in the moment you're hypersensitive to because there's no bigger picture. So maybe that's a key takeaway Get a plan together so you can enjoy your journey and not just be scarcity and wigging out all the time. Great, well, I think this has been a really good episode. I hope everyone has enjoyed that A bit of a trip down memory lane, declan and I just talking about our journey and what we've learned over the last couple of years.
Speaker 2:I think it's nice to sit down and just reflect. Talk about this stuff, if not for anyone, but for ourselves. Yeah, good therapy session, great therapy session. So look, if you're a recruiter and you're wanting to take the next step in your career and you don't know what that step is. It might be worth reaching out to Declan or Ed. They can talk to you about a sensible plan.
Speaker 2:Whether that's introduce you to a really high performing agency that you'll get lots of growth out of. Whether that's introduce you to a really high performing agency that you'll get lots of growth out of. Whether that's starting your own business there's nothing off the table like we're here to help. Whether that's increasing your billings, whatever that is, we're super motivated and committed to to trying to add value to the industry and change the industry statistics from typically what is a really hard industry to be a part of. So if this has resonated with you, drop us a message on LinkedIn. Declan is very active on Instagram these days so he'll definitely hit you up. If you follow his Instagram profile, we'd love to chat to you and help make it happen. If you follow his Instagram profile, we'd love to chat to you and help make it happen, yeah.
Speaker 1:And also like shout out to another couple of people, chris Bryden and Lisa Angland, part of the OG crew as well. So look what they've done in business. They're 12 months in, so it's an exciting journey and always, you know, thanks my sister and my mom for being there and being a sounding board a lot of the times too.
Speaker 2:Good sesh. Thanks, blake, love it. Thanks, dec. Thanks for tuning in to another Confessions of a Recruiter podcast with Blake and Declan. We hope you enjoyed and got a lot of value and insights out of this episode. If you do have any questions or you would like to recommend someone to come on the Confessions podcast, we would love any introductions and remember the rule of the podcast like share and recommend it to a friend. Until next time.